F1 Bans Copycats - the 3D Scanning techniques made illegal

[@Azeria]

The FIA only banned it because it’s harder to make a tracing pun with ‘Aston Martin’

[@zulubunsen9067]

" l'Ast-year-on Merc-tin " just doesn't have the ring to it.

[@TheBloodsuger150]

Copy Paste-on Martin?

[@TheBloodsuger150]

Aston Mercin?

[@mikosoft]

Astute Marking?

[@moosemaimer]

Double-Oh Stolen?

[@RealCivilEngineerGaming]

"Hello fellow engineers!!" 😅 Cheers for the cameo haha, very unexpected!

[@lucarafael1]

Hey, love your vids! Keep it up :D

[@thoom44]

Best cameo 2020 :O

[@CallumVR6]

Had to go back and watch it again. Thought it was you.

[@aljazcuk5896]

Love, peace and f1?

[@5amD]

And they said Endgame was the most ambitious crossover in history 🤯

[@doodletanki6661]

Id love to see more advanced aerodynamics vids which could maybe explain how air travel from the front to the rear throughout

[@DannyAQ]

Yes please

[@MaheshKumar-qn9ok]

There are 3 video on Aerodynamics on the channel , they're pretty good imo

[@metaltyre4894]

You'll lost it, at the first vortex created by front wing

[@doodletanki6661]

@@metaltyre4894 i know how it works, but it was all by my own research and interpretation. it would be nice to hear it and learn from chain bear himself

[@saltyyf1802]

he already has videos about that

[@tetragon2137]

Thanks for putting this together! Edit: love the Spygate reference at 2:40 Edit 2: Counterpoint; let's say, Racing Point and Mercedes do their own work, use their own CFD software and run their own calculations, and happen to, by nothing but sheer coincidence, come up with some components that are almost, but not quite, identical. How can both teams prove their innocence in this case to the FIA?

[@SerialGaming]

By showing the fia how they designed the parts

[@jeidun]

i think they would work by different aerodynamic principles and thus prove their innocence by explaining how the component works also there's very little chance let's say barge boards would be the same, because the front wing is different

[@twatts4436]

It's incredibly unlikely to happen that the designs would be so close as to be indistinguishable. You also have process information which shows how you came about designing something.

[@rizkyanandita8227]

Team tend to be checked by the FIA time to time. And the really clever one tend to get close to them so they could develop something without the worry of breaking the rule. This happen when Mercedes developing their turbo hybrid PU.

[@t1995roger10]

the Spygate reference was good too

[@prorigami2444]

6:29 imagine a round table of engineers crossing eyes looking at 2019 merc

[@Mike23443]

Chainbear: *uses a midrolls ad as a marker on the timeline to skip the sponsor message* Chainbear: I used the ads to destroy the ads.

[@willappleton3274]

Feel like I've been staring at that horse for a good hour now

[@mafiousbj]

I love how this video about F1 suddenly diverts into a section explaining how human sight works. I really enjoy that kind and level of context!!

[@ransontham9378]

You TAUGHT me how to look at one of those magic eye pictures! Your explanation unlocked a part of my brain I didn't know was possible!

[@tylisirn]

He taught it wrong though. Magic eye pictures are made for parallel viewing. They do work with crosseyed (which he explained, and is much easier to do for most people), but you'll see the depth inverted.

[@atthattime768]

Great video. It would've been cool if teams started designing stealth features into their cars to thwart scanning, rather than a rule ban on the technique.

[@noobnugget-zp2cd]

Racing Point engineers: Write this down, WRITE THIS DOWN

[@Mopar_logic]

Lol

[@franekcer1008]

More like: trace this down, trace this down!

[@Rouliousin]

I’m specialist in 3D geodata and you explain very clearly the acquisition and the purpose of pointclouds ! Nice work 👍🏼

[@F1ll1nTh3Blanks]

Clear and concise as ever. You're a godsend. This will either work well or just mean extra work in court and legals then right?..

[@borandiUK]

Re: Photogrammetry. You don't need to know the location of the camera - software can now work that out from the images themselves in relation to the other images in the set. Source: I benchmark CPUs using photogrammetry software.

[@duckrutt]

Why this account Ian, shouldn't you be promoting potatoes?

[@autumnleaf2976]

Scary how advanced computers have become in last couple of decades or so.

[@Garvm]

@@autumnleaf2976 and I can project a grid of points in order to 3d scan an object with my phone

[@Wirenfeldt1990]

Real Civil Engineer? Happy 400k!

[@RealCivilEngineerGaming]

I'm as surprised as you are!

[@a51mj12]

I'm real Pro Civil Civilian

[@AdmiralSP]

Ahhh! The long awaited optics and remote sensing lecture by Chain Bear..

[@R6VIIshooter]

Mr Bear, your "I'm 'aving that" is probably the most northern thing I've heard you say

[@shelvacu]

6:01 that stereogram (like most) is a "wall-eyed" stereogram, where you need to convince your eyes to drift towards looks directly forward, as if looking at something far away. What you show in the video is the eyes crossing; If you do this the shark in this case will look weird, like a cardboard cutout in front of a shark mold. It's also harder to focus on that. In contrast, 6:16 *is* a cross-eye stereogram like you said.

[@CTxRGaming]

Love the cameo from real civil engineer! Great vid as always

[@noobnugget-zp2cd]

I have watched so many videos on this so far but this. this one is special

[@e.s.2635]

Honestly Chain Bear you've managed to maintain f1 interest despite the monotony of the past seasons, Thank you!

[@mortenalbertsen7443]

When the pandemic started, i tought myself a thing or two about photogrammetry and built a little rig to help me scanning. Depending on the software, it doesn't have to know where the camera is, it can actually figure it out all by itself. But yeah, marvellous technique!

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

Nowadays, we can even reconstruct sound by calculating the air movement of a video in relation to the space it is in.

[@mortenalbertsen7443]

@@BrunodeSouzaLino just about. From a technology point of view, yes. But as far as i know, it is still not ready for practical use

[@Stormynormy42]

NASCAR uses the light projection method for their inspection scans, pretty cool to see in action if ya got the time to look up a video. Also, I used to work at a manufacturing company where I operated a 3D laser (complex cuts of steel tubes), and if the material wasn't up to snuff in terms of being perfectly straight, I would have to put the machine into a mode that would do contact scanning after every time the machine move the part. Would make a part that usually takes 7 or 8 minutes to cut take 35-40 minutes, very time consuming method of scanning something. Very interesting stuff here! Keep up the good work

[@LucianoBargmann]

Loved the content Stu! Best explanation of the do's and don'ts! You rock! (ok, a little too much with the laser scan, but maybe because I am from Tech industry.. anyway - love the channel)

[@franciscobates]

I guess they can police this by asking for the CAD files and then looking into the design history of each part. If the part was genuinely made by the team, they should be able to see sketches, surfaces and operations in the file (i.e. a parametric file). If the part was scanned, it would have no design history and they would only see a solid without sketches or operations (i.e. a parasolid file)

[@tylisirn]

Which you can circumvent by taking the scan and then building your own model that will match the scan using the scan as guide. It's merely a speedbump unfortunately. (In fact you probably want to do that anyway, since point cloud meshes are awful to work with.)

[@killermacmc]

I wonder if a more equitable distribution of F1 money and resources would embolden teams to take risks on their own, crazy ideas rather than copying. If the penalty for "failed" innovation, innovations that don't bear out on track with podiums, weren't so steep maybe things could get really nuts again.

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

F1 did that in the past. And what happened? FIA banned all of them. Fan cars, double diffusers, ground effect cars, ABS, automatic traction control, etc. Some even with fatal results, like the banning of automatic traction control and ABS resulting in two drivers (one of them being Ayrton Senna) dying the next season.

[@TheKincognito]

congrats on 400k next milestone is half a million👍

[@TheRealSonicBeats]

Pov: You're crossing your eyes like a clown

[@ValentineC137]

jokes on you I can't cross my eyes

[@stevencook388]

That trick with your eyes is also why the halo doesn’t block a drivers vision. The view from each eye fills in the gaps that the halo would normally block

[@ThomasNing]

5:33 one small issue with photogrammetry in this example is that a tomato is reflective, which would wreak havoc with the software's processing. Would probably work with most of a formula 1 car though. Or maybe they have more sophisticated software that can deal with it.

[@zakhobbs136]

Today’s technology that isn’t really a concern anymore, small stickers can be placed on the part which when seen in a photo crests a 3D link (effectively its own point cloud), this allows the part to move and the camera can then capture almost the entirety of the surface.

[@mahiru20ten]

FIA should've allowed customer cars to be a thing again. If MotoGP can thrive with older factory spec bikes running together with the newer ones, why can't this be done in F1? (Despite there are 1-2 brands that are dominant in the series, it seems like not every team are using that brand of bike, too)

[@muhammadahdalularayhanfasy8092]

Honestly this year's motogp is a very interesting season with a relative tight gap from 1st place to last place. It's full of action in the whole 20-something lap per race. Kudos to all people behind motogp (I know if marquez is racing he will dominate. But I think he is a really good, talented guy and deserves those championships. Even his brother who is a moto2 champion can't keep up (yet?))

[@gaijin2162]

400k!!!!! Congrats!

[@aaronmachado13]

I got into a debate with someone about the RP situation and there’s a difference between copying a concept vs copying a product. You summed it up perfectly.

[@Olivyay]

They copied the product.

[@aaronmachado13]

@@Olivyay that’s what I find the issue with what RP did but unfortunately it was a loophole exploited

[@ttv_jc__117]

Rigmarole and Hullabaloo - you just hit my spot Mr Bear.

[@jonathanc2311]

Congrats on 400 k

[@AdistiantoYuwono]

This will only be harder and harder to enforce since smartphone nowadays begin to utilize multi-camera and even LIDAR scanner integrated. Some intelligent being (read: F1 Engineer) propelled with enough time and money could utilize this to capture some valuable 3D data secretly and combine it with the photos taken.

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

New rule: "No smartphones allowed in the pits." Problem solved.

[@SavolainenVideoarkisto]

Good analysis.

[@beaverman285]

I wasn't expecting that RCE appearance. Very good

[@Mike23443]

Putting a midrolls ad at the end of the sponsor message ad a cheeky timestamp to show me where to skip to. I like the way you think.

[@Jt7166]

So this means "hypothetically" you can't "accidentally" leave a wind tunnel scale version of the W10 at the wind tunnel right before RP has a session scheduled and laser scan the scaled car? I can't believe laser scanning an opponents car was legal prior to now, but better late than never I guess.

[@Olivyay]

Finally someone wo gets it.

[@ringsystemmusic]

Didn’t expect to giggle as much at “touch the tomato”

[@jkliao6486]

2:40 I sense built-in ads here for kaspersky, which is as fast as a Ferrari pit stop XD

[@SamDixon3244]

Hi Stuart, I was just wondering if you could do a video on why the car rotates if you floor the accelerator from a standstill, even with a locked differential. Also, I've been subscribed to you for a few months now (I think I have been since May), and almost everything I know about how an f1 car comes from your videos. Thankyou so much!

[@sherfillouisy]

Love your videos very informative save me a lot of time from reading all these books you have to read keep it coming

[@kukeleku13]

Great video again! Could you make a video about the f1 games?

[@RussellAutosport]

I’m currently studying to be a mechanical engineer (work with a lot of CAD) and I think I may have some ideas on how they could police the concerns you suggested at the end of the video. In most CAD softwares, the file has a “File History” section where you can see how the file was created. This can include the MAC address of the computer it was developed on, the time, and who was signed into it at the time. In addition, in most CAD softwares the components are dependent on the ones that came before it. So if I delete the first surface I made and the second surface is defined (maybe two points on them are coincident or a line intersects a surface perpendicularly or something) with respect to the first one, the second surface must be deleted too. This allows most software to “replay” the design process step-by-step, so you can see how the design progressed each step of the way. This is how they police our CAD assignments when we turn them in online. If my friend did the entire assignment on his computer, sent it to me before the due date, and I just changed the file name and submitted it, the professor would know because 1) they can see the file history and see that my friend was signed in to HIS computer at several points during the construction of the model and 2) if they replayed how the model was constructed, they could see it was completely identical in process between his and mine (very unlikely). So if Mercedes were to model something in 3D separately beforehand using the methods you mentioned and just import it into software, the FIA could go into the file history and see there was a point where this copycat model was just imported into the file with no actual CAD work to sketch and create the design themselves. At this point the team would have some explaining to do.

[@zakhobbs136]

A fun idea, however it would rely on the FIA having licences for almost every CAD software out there. File history can be traced through the original CAD software but say for example a surface is imported as NURBS and then someone adds elements and their own surfaces, then another adds a small tweak. Often with each change the file format can change and therefore the file history is left somewhat staggered. This is often the case when F1 teams have external companies complete CAD models for them and make tweaks based upon what they want from the model.

[@snivyfan1476]

"FIA Shenanigans" Sounds like it should be a sitcom.

[@westerlywind1035]

Your 3D animation was impressive today

[@Marqk-]

The FIA can request all design related materials, say a team used something like lidar to copy another team, the fia can request the documents related to that design, the team that was doing the copying would have to recreate a design process start to finish, I mean wind tunnel data, diagrams, flo vis etc, all of the development of that part. So to first copy the part, then go back and try to recreate the development data with out any mistakes (date files were modified.created etc) would be so risky and expensive that you might as well develop that part yourself

[@pulkka25]

Nice video! Maybe you could tell us how time traveling works in the next one?

[@surajsapkal1293]

Small correction: You don't need to have information about the position of cameras. There is something called a Fundamental matrix decomposition and just by a different view of the same scene you can reconstruct 3D image. Thank you so much for video. PS: Congratulations on 400k

[@betungurawilliam]

Monalisa example came out proper, thanks chains bear💯

[@fieldmartan4426]

I don't know if i'm going insane but I'm starting to think you can't spell F.I.A without a B, A or an N.

[@Pinaka120]

Lol

[@autumnleaf2976]

This regulation was kind of necessary though.

[@fieldmartan4426]

@@autumnleaf2976 Thats what they say about all regulations

[@grommile]

Defining what you aren't allowed to do and what you are allowed to do is basically a sporting regulator's entire job.

[@Pinaka120]

@@grommile but fia is just banning whatever new system a team is developing.....do u see any other sport where the rules change so much throughout the year???

[@spambot7110]

as long as the team has no affiliation with Anish Kapoor, they could paint some of their more secretive geometry with Black 3.0 to make it a lot harder to scan / analyze, since you could only really pick up convex features. plus how cool would that be to have a car that's just, an inscrutable black shape

[@ApothecaryTerry]

0:20 Chain Bear's actual history.

[@greatsageclok-roo9013]

I didn't click on this video for a science lesson... *Worth it.*

[@jj_1edzep]

5:48 I was so hoping it'd be a F1 car or something, instead of a shark XD *Darn it, putting in the effort to see the stereogram, and he's shows what it afterwards XD Shows me for commenting before the end of the video...

[@zakhobbs136]

As a metrology engineer I was really hoping you would go into detail about the reverse engineering process as simply getting to a CAD model from 3D scan data is no simple step. Also with regards to the new rules, F1 teams have been using external companies to complete reverse engineering projects for years, does this ban stop just themselves doing it or the ban of any work involving reverse engineering? Either way teams have invested millions in hardware and software to enable reverse engineering so I’m sure they will find a loop hole to exploit.

[@Lewis-vx5wd]

8:27 Quite annoyed this wasn't a joke about barge boards

[@leonardoaraujo8364]

The "pink Mercedes" became what it is because of Szafnauer himself. At The pre season He was talking about "pink Mercedes" and laughing, considering it a great and clever achievement. Punished by The big mouth. If He started to talk about the engineering and how Hard The work was and inside The car there were innovations and so on, The outcome probably would be different.

[@Olivyay]

People are not blind, they wouldn't have fooled everyone.

[@leonardoaraujo8364]

@@Olivyay But without him comfirming At The beggining, He would have a strong argument to defend against the claims.

[@shinfelixkl]

I think it is absolutely fine to copy, they are not going to out perform the original without the full development knowledge anyway.

[@10babiscar]

Racing point's more competitive car has been one of the season's highlights. I want more of this not less

[@morsecodereviews1553]

6:30 oh great... now my eyes are stuck

[@gibospartan6185]

10:09 Kind of doesn’t matter. If one team just copies a part from another team and bolts it on their car it’ll be slow. In fact it could have already happened before besides with Tracing Point. While the rules seem to forbid copying of individual parts, it’s likely that this may only prevent teams from copying entire car concepts but ultimately that’s the part that threatens the integrity of the sport. Copying of smaller parts through photogrammetry may actually be beneficial going forward, as it could allow smaller teams to copy and adapt areas of the best cars to improve their own while also saving some money.

[@mexicothesenor]

great vid!

[@Mopar_logic]

Now I can't uncross my eyes, thanks lol

[@joeterzio7175]

New Chain Bear equals auto-click.

[@luckyd77]

The pics of the horse are the wrong way round I notice, or the pictures back to front judging by it’s angle when you look close to the back ground

[@venukrithish007]

I closed one eye and still am seeing 3D😂

[@jpizzlepiz2731]

Hi, i thought renault already said no to an engine freeze as now it has become integral to there program going forward? I understand that sometime ago they would have agreed but since others did not they changed there stance on the matter for the reason i stated above!

[@lars_geurts45]

Is there any possibility you can explain how the fia checks and test the car on illegal aero and stuff during a race weekend. I once saw a picture where they put some sort of massive ruler on the 2009 brawn gp diffuser to look if it was legal. I'm curious how they check all of it.

[@mickcoomer9714]

Very interesting, thank you.

[@a88senna]

Seems a real area that could be hard to police, could end up like the ban on team orders, gets to the point where it's impossible to enforce so they drop it. Personally I didn't care about racing point copying the previous version of the merc, if it was easy every team would be doing it, it's not on a moral standpoint others didn't do it, it's because they couldn't. But complaining about RP gave them the opportunity to hamper a rival.

[@HarryIke4]

Got to love how f1 has historically banned new innovations and forward thinking! Really promotes imagination

[@thomasdequincey5811]

I had three images of the horse. The 3D one in the middle and the 2D ones to the sides.

[@glowtail3744]

I just wanna say andrea moda used a modified version of an old colonial car for some of the 1992 season

[@samarvora7185]

I feel what's happening here, is that the rules made by the FIA are so specific that they become vague. Like that Lindybeige vid (if anyone watches him...) where he goes over words so specific that they become vague. For instance, "No running" is quite clear, but if you try to make it more specific and go for, "No sprinting", things become a bit wonky.

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

This is a problem with certain rules. Some must be open to interpretation, while others have to be very specific. FIA doesn't know the balance and always uses extremely specific rules, then wonders why teams constantly find loopholes in them.

[@brtbds4783]

Im sorry but this is getting ridiculous with all these rules. Hundreds of pages of what you can or cant do sometimes with unclear definitions only for somebody to find a hole in this and be fastest for 1 year and then get that banned again. just give everybody the same car

[@benodaboy]

What about LIDAR on phones now are they accurate enough for this kind of use?

[@tinvek]

In today’s world would the Tyrrell 009 have been allowed ? No it wasn’t scanned etc but even one of their partners asked at the launch where the new car was and why was there a blue lotus 79 there

[@jensvdvegt2356]

Hey, can you explain what padding is?

[@tigger314159]

I wonder whether forcing the teams to make their designs public, perhaps at fixed points in a season, might be a way to discourage the great expense of F1? Costly developments would be pointless because the others would soon catch up. Teams would only benefit from their new design for a limited period. It probably wouldn't be popular with the higher performing teams but would level the playing field to make racing more interesting.

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

It would work well with the budget cuts planned for 2021.

[@Chuckiele]

I think the last part you mentioned, a whole lot of photographers running around and taking pictures of the diffusor, should not be illegal because knowing the exact position of them is almost impossible and you could never make a proper 3d model from that. Now if it was static cameras thats completely different but human photographers?

[@pranavrathore1703]

You vastly underestimate today's technology. You can get a millimeter perfect measurement by today's camera and software trickery.

[@PanzerFalcon2232]

Holy shit. I got the horse to appear in the centre of the screen

[@GorgyCL]

Photogrametry from roadside pictures is almost impossible. The only references you have are the position of the car on track and the GPS flag on the image which are both on meter-sized errors. Car parts such as a diffuser are made down to millimeter tolerances so building a CAD from the team photographers without any other blatantly illegal aid such as a laser rangefinder or precise telemetry from the other team is physically impossible.

[@Kris_T_]

Red Bull have earned their place in F1.If they get their engine freeze, it will reduce their disadvantage, but it wont give them any kind of advantage, its damage control not progress. If it keeps them in F1, they should get it, theres still plenty of other things to spend money on, & I'm sure Merecedes et al will make hay getting a head start on the next engine.

[@bosoerjadi2838]

Those techniques are also heavily in use for the team's own quality assurance of its own products (and that of their suppliers). Has that use also been forbidden? If not (probably), how is that (not) going to affect the FIA's rules enforcement on this article?

[@Kungfujoe1110]

That machine touching the tomato needs to calm tf down

[@hon_acc8830]

I just think of it as how they do it in NASCAR but different than how it is used

[@piotrstanczak8319]

I really would like to see FIA trying to proof that someone used photogrammetry :-)

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

Considering the similar objectives most F1 car designs have, how you even prove you didn't copy another team's design, especially with the rules regarding similarity of things like halos and things?

[@bloodspatteredguitar]

Fun brain breaking game- try to see 3d on qualifying lap comparison videos. Easier the closer the two laps are to each other.

[@danielkunstek6763]

nice. Real civil engineer is famous

[@mully006]

This is what I don't understand about F1, why not just let teams buy the whole cars outright? It would decrease the barrier to entry and reduce the required spending. Teams could focus on developing the car and racing. That is what is done in every other racing series. It's a waste of money to design a part over again just because the rules say so

[@HoangNguyen-ym9ce]

No mention about Ferrari's suspicious 3D scanning drone in Tuscan GP?

[@joshuacurtis5523]

For those wondering why “don’t copy other teams” is so hard to get into written rules for sport: In industry, companies utilize all of these reverse engineering techniques. They are prevented from building an identical product by threat of a lawsuit from whomever designed the product being studied. The company doing the reverse engineering must understand HOW the design is working so that they can develop a sufficiently different design that accomplishes the same task. This wouldn’t work with F1 because these lawsuits take a lot of time to sort out, and the season would easily pass by even a single suit, meaning enforcement via lawsuits would be nearly impossible. Plus no one likes a lot of court hearings being at the foundation of their sports competitiveness.

[@mateuszzimon8216]

But u know they have separate court, IT and ICA.

[@Naman.Khivsara]

Do a video on what would happen if F1 never went to the hybrid era

[@Willie_Pete_Was_Here]

It’d be fun

[@Fixer29]

The engines would be louder, and the fans would find something else to complain about instead of the quiet engines 😋

[@Willie_Pete_Was_Here]

@@Fixer29 also true. Before 2014 it was the tires

[@XenophonSoulis]

@@Willie_Pete_Was_Here There is always something. F1 has gotten itself in a nice predicament by being romantic and modern simultaneously and they can't properly satisfy both viewpoints.

[@motorsportmoments]

With that last example I think Mercedes would get nothing for it and Alfa Romeo would be the one that’s investigated because they’re the slower team.

[@leonardoaraujo8364]

I loved your conclusion. Until they start to argue about... 😂😂😂😂😂

[@sibuvika5930]

HAVING THAT!!!

[@ansonwong7372]

So basically now teams cant learn from other teams like what they did in the double diffuser?