F35 Lightning vs Eurofighter Typhoon | Replacing Spain's F-18 Hornets until the 6th Gen FCAS

Span has been looking to replace its Legacy EF-18 Hornets. The Eurofighter Typhoon has been slated to replace the 20 oldest Hornets, and for a brief time it looked like the F-35 Lightning was being considered to replace the remaining 60 EF-18s. We will take a look at how the F-35 Could meet Spain's needs and fill the gap until the FCAS 6th Generation fighter becomes available.
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[@PilotPhotog]

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[@JoeRafferty0]

One thing to consider is this is for the canaries, a remote territory. The EF has a larger range and redundant propulsion. Perhaps factors that add weight to this decision.

[@Mishn0]

Redundant propulsion means double the engine maintenance and an unknown, but probably minor, increase in safety. Modern engines are very reliable.

[@calvorota74]

Spain just Bought 20 new EF, the final decision is that EF moderniced tranch 1 or 2 goes to canary island. The F35 will go to Torrejon and Zaragoza in case that Spain will buy it. In my opinion the best option is buy both. So we can have the best of both, plus we will wiil retain the navy wing, becouse the AV8B plus are close to the end of their operational live.

[@calvorota74]

@@Mishn0 Not agree, in case of a bird ingestion a single engine aircraft is lost. When a twin engine can survive. Spain only lost one f18 due to a bird strike, while Belgium, the USA, etc lost much more f16 due to this. Spain chose the f18 vs f16 due to this. spacially due to our vast coast line and canary and balears island.

[@matso3856]

@@calvorota74 False , old Gripen have had at least 2 incidents , and was still able to emergency land. I guess the size of the bird matters , they did not mention it. Gripen E is supposedly built to 'resist' bird ingestion , again I dont know excatly what they mean by that. Not everything is by american standards , some are higher. Russians also have this mentality that engines must be able to handle some ingestions thus no need to have perfectly clean runway.

[@brodcaster14]

The EF DOES NOT have longer range than a F-35A or F-35C and is comparable to a F-35B. Source: I'm a F-35A pilot that has worked with typhoons and know what their operational ranges are. The impressive part is a F-35A on internal fuel only has better range than a 3 bag EF. Parasitic drag is a bitch

[@suprvrmedia6235]

With the burocracy of EU, the FCAS will be available when the US is making the 7th gen fighter platform...

[@LRRPFco52]

FCAS has a very huge hurdle to leap over if it is to be funded. The EF partners are still quibbling about CAPTOR-E, which has now split into 3 different types of CAPTOR-E AESA radars. First flight of the EAP demonstrator was in 1986, 35 years ago.

[@mikedejesus7064]

Yeah, designing new, groundbreaking aircraft is tough and arduous work; especially since there are no real examples of an operational 6th gen aircraft yet. Though I will say, here in the US, we have our own issues with bureaucracy and vast corruption within the military industrial complex. While the goals of the F-35 were lofty, it serves as a prime example of these problems. Almost any problem can be solved over time with massive amounts of money, but that doesn't make it prudent; especially for us taxpayers. The FX and NGAD programs will supposedly face less of a hurdle due to digital development and engineering, along with other changes. We'll see how that goes though. They've allegedly flown a 6th gen demonstrator, but that doesn't mean much when you figure that they've still refine the final product and find a way to outfit it with all of the new technology they plan to implement. The F22 won its contract in 1990, but didn't go into service until 2006. The F35 won in 1993 but didn't go into service until 2015. So we'll see.

[@CrayonEater255]

@@mikedejesus7064 NGAD prototypes already flew

[@autarchprinceps]

The EU isn’t involved. FCAS is a collaboration between France, Germany & Spain. They may be in the EU, but that’s still not the same. Italy for example is working on Tempest instead, with Britain.

[@nick4506]

@@autarchprinceps i think he means more of a characterization of it being a multi-country project. squabbling between the partnered countries will slow progress and increase costs. same thing happened with the Eurofighter, and the squabbling got so bad that france split off to make their own plane. just like how Boeing outsourcing its engineering overseas has created problems for their passenger jets. separating design teams and balancing competing interests doesn't go well for making something good.

[@teddy.d174]

Only one word needed to explain… Politics.

[@vonpredator]

Legacy Hornets!?!?! CANADA has entered the chat! How much you want for them?

[@willbarnstead3194]

With our budget I don’t know if we can afford legacy hornets.

[@vonpredator]

@@willbarnstead3194 no worries according to the video, Spain’ll only be done with them in 2030-ish. So plenty of time to cut other programs and raise taxes to pay for them!

[@LRRPFco52]

Ha ha ha!

[@tinto278]

🤣🤣🤣

[@Idahoguy10157]

@@willbarnstead3194 …. Spain should ask for payment up front. Before the Canadian federal government changes it’s mind…again

[@Bagas-114]

The way you explain and describe the F-35 is like you are the salesman from Lockheed LOL

[@sircommander27]

Nice photobomb by the B52

[@dayytube]

I really appreciate the efforts you have put in to make these fantastic videos.Thank you Pilot Photog 👏👍

[@DamplyDoo]

Listen to the most recent fighter pilot podcast about the f35... Made me think about it different 🤔

[@perelfberg7415]

Yea I heard ut aswell but its also very much a bias interview. Very little self critical talk in it. I often feel that the fighterpilotblog never ask the deeper searching questions. Always stroking the cat along the hairs never. It's to much of just a nice talk.

[@DamplyDoo]

@@perelfberg7415 I'll give you that. No plane is perfect but i think the current f35 platform is very good. I wish we still made f22 or went with yf23.

[@LRRPFco52]

@@perelfberg7415 They had Billie Flynn on, who has flown over 80 different types of aircraft, almost every modern and experimental US/NATO fighter, to include the CF-188/Hornet, EF Typhoon, F-16 MATV, F-16E/F Block 60 Desert Falcons, and all 3 variants of the JSF program. Who would you rather give their perspective? I don’t know of any pilots who have flown more types than that, including all 3 JSF. You wouldn’t want someone who doesn’t know a thing about it commenting from the outside with bias towards their baby, so his experience is very compelling.

[@therocinante3443]

If they're a key partner in Eurofighter production, it makes complete sense for them to choose that. That's like the U.S. designing and producing F-35 but buying Gripens for themselves instead.

[@jonlaurenzreyes1902]

They probably don't want to stick to one type of jet fighter

[@angelvidal4774]

The problem here is politicians, our air force would like to replace our 20 old f-18a with eurofighters and then our 70 more modern ef-18m with f-35. But that's not going to be easy, I guess will get at least some f-35b models for our navy, 20 or more eurofighters and maybe if the government changes the F-35a could be bought for 2030 or so. (Also the Harriers shown in the video were the old av-8s retired in the 90's or so, now we have the av-8b+ same as the usmc)

[@MBB563]

Spain's failure to consider the F35, is rooted in your typical prideful Spanish political arrogance being biased against American superiority.....plus feeding into this idea of supporting a failed Euro project just to keep jobs. The Italians were smart from day one to join and participate in the F35 program, and for that they receive the most advance air fighter for the Italian Air Force. Plus they participate and share in advance technologies with the US and a host of other nations, so much of F35 parts or suppliers come from Italy. Spanish arrogance will always be the root of it's national failures.

[@weasle2904]

The only reason any nation is showing *any* interest in the EuroFighter is purely for political reasons. It's an inferior and less effective plane, while also being more expensive, and less reliable. It's a poor decision.

[@robertodelpino4989]

Actually , we are considering 3 batches to replace our fleet of Ef18A / Ef18M (MLU) and Av8b+. - 20 Ef2000 Tranche 4 AESA for replacing our F18A CX in the Canary Island. (Ef18A) - 20 Ef2000 Tranche 5 for replacing a wing in Zaragoza Air base. (Ef18M Hornet MLU) - 20 F35A for replacing a wing in Torrejon Air base (Ef18M Hornet MLU) And 15 F35B for the Spanish Navy.They have expressed that there is no discussion in this issue. ( It is YES or YES F35B).

[@marylogonzalez3017]

la armada solicita 12 que son los que puede llevar el juan Carlos 1º y el gobierno no le van a dar mas de lo que pide la armada, otra cosa diferente seria si las especulaciones del construir un segundo Carrier para la armada aprovechando el diseño que a desarrollado Navantia para Turquía , y el cual saldría barato ya que los costes de desarrollo los pago Turquía, hay para el 2030 hablaríamos de otro lote de f35b o quizá de fcas ya que el tamaño de este Carrier es bástate mayor y podría permitir operarlos, pero esto son especulaciones que hay sobre la mesa, de momento, lo que esta asegurado es 12 f 35 b para la armada si, o si, se compraran, en lo concerniente al ejercito del aire estoy mas o menos de acuerdo con tigo

[@gregs7562]

Yes but go B for all as the UK has done. It'll simply maintenance & training.

[@jordirex7711]

Si o sí no existe en ingles

[@aalb1873]

Spain with F35 could have an advantage in developing future 6th generation fighter.

[@djsmith2871]

Also allows you to give your pilots transition experience to 6th gen. Less of a leap in tactics and systems.

[@EEEEEEE354]

I have two issues with this video: 1. The assumption that the F-35 has higher operating costs is pretty bold considering that the typhoon is known for being quite expensive to operate. The problem here is cpfh may be measured differently in European countries than in the United States. That kind of statement requires a more detailed analysis. 2. the typhoon does not have greater range than the F-35. Depending on the variant, the F-35 with internal fuel outranges the typhoon in most configurations even with three external fuel tanks. This is because typhoon was originally designed as an interceptor and didn't really require great range. Despite notably good payload capacity，one of the drawbacks of the typhoon as a strike fighter is its horrible range.

[@PilotPhotog]

Fair points and thanks for commenting!

[@jimmy_wang_]

Yeah hearing that made me cringe and wonder how much research was actually done for this video

[@Aspen51]

It's not an assumption, it is well documented fact with the legacy of a supply chain trail which is an absolute train wreck. This is based on personal knowledge from family who fly both types and have done for +/- 1000hrs in the Typhoon & +/- 600 hrs in the F-35....... there is NOTHING in the air with a higher flight/hour - Maintenance ratio than the F-35..... everything else out there is spin or from keyboard pilots with zero actual knowledge...... Gen 4-5 is also spurious with the advent of Gen 6 missile systems that are CURRENTLY available for the Typhoon

[@chasefreedom5178]

Leaving out performance shortfalls in every category as well. The F35 is no F22 for that matter no contest against existing air frames currently in inventory. This isn't the first time pencil pushers have put their eggs in one basket. History proves this out. Tech is great but day to day advances are made and in this no country has the monopoly. Baseline for any aircraft must be raw performance then technical marvels. So if and when when 1 falls short the pilot can rely on the other.

[@LRRPFco52]

@@Aspen51 Interesting. There are some very lengthy interviews with F-35A maintainers who say it’s far easier to work on than the F-16C, and comes back from sorties with a very low break-rate. Official reports are that the F-35A only has a 6% break-rate, whereas F-16C is 10%. F-16 is one of the easiest fighters to maintain in modern fighter history. 6th Gen missile systems available for Typhoon? No such animal exists.

[@gruntusmc8922]

The Eurofighter "Typhoon" is an excellent weapons platform even as a 4th gen fighter. Maybe it would be better for Spain to buy at least 45 "Typhoons" for their Air Force, at least an 18 - 24 squadron of F-35B, (that can be rotated in groups of 12 every 6 months while the other 12 are receiving maintenance for their carrier), and 8 F -18G Growlers,(combat electronic warfare planes are always needed), that way in the event of conflict the F-18G can accompany the Typhoons to make sure that they get a higher % of survivability in the event of crisis by blinding the enemy's radars. The safeguarding of any COUNTRY and it's Citizens should be maintained at every cost. This may be a more economic solution by having more versatility.

[@alfonsodf1]

That would be logical... but it seems that you don't know the spanish politicians...

[@davehill5764]

I think I read somewhere that it is 2-3 times more expensive to maintain 2 kinds of aircraft than it is to maintain 1 kind (total number of overall units being equal) so you could double or triple your squadron fleet if you only have 1 type of plane. And you’d have even less units of planes if you maintained 3 types of planes.

[@stealth225]

I won't be so sure on the CPFH part EF is also pretty famous for being expensive ,F-35 last recorded CPFH for USAF was 33k and they are reducing it to 30k by the next year, another fun fact Australia actually finds F-35 cheaper to operate than the Super Hornet

[@perelfberg7415]

Well sure the operational cost can be reduced and improved but if its not originaly designed to be low cost there is really a limit of how much it can be improved. Also the more improved it gets the more expensive it gets to improve. But very interesting thing that you said about Australia. Wonder what the factors are and what the issues were with the F18s

[@LRRPFco52]

@@perelfberg7415 Not any issues in particular, just that Super Hornets have 2 engines and older man-machine interface for troubleshooting and maintenance, whereas JSF tell on themselves as soon as a ruggedized laptop is plugged-in, if there are any faults at all. Where it costs more is at depot-level sometimes, depending on what’s being replaced due to RAM and IR camouflage systems that take time to cure. New F-35As often return from a sortie 100% up, which is not the norm with legacy fighters.

[@perelfberg7415]

@@LRRPFco52 well then that should be the case with any F18 from the same era then. That does not seem to be the case when estimatuons are made else where.

[@LRRPFco52]

@@perelfberg7415 Basic systems design is totally different on Super Hornets vs F-35s. F-35s are Fly-by-Light (fiber optic lines) with self-contained Electrohydrostatic Actuators, so each actuator contains its own fluid without being powered by a central system. Super Hornets use a Quad redundant Digital Flight Control System with hydraulic power provided by 2 variable displacement pressure-compensated inline pumps. This older approach to flight control architecture is more vulnerable to failure, although the Super Hornet has the added flexibility of a configurable FLCS after damage. It's more advanced and safer than the Baby Hornet FLCS though. F-22A and JSF have holistic configurable DFLCS as a baseline, along with aerodynamic breaking, attenuation to conditions, and tailoring to RCS reduction based on threat aspect. With fiber optic lines, there's no fluid or pressure on the line to leak or burst, which is one of the biggest safety and reliability features the F-35s have that other fighters don't. It's one of the main contributing factors to why they can return from a flight and still be 100% up. That's not normal. F-35Ss in USAF surpassed all other fighters for readiness rates in 2020, including the F-16C and A-10C, both of which have been the standard in FMC/MC rates for the last 40 years.

[@BLY99]

It's almost like newer planes require less maintenance than decades old planes. This is actually embarrassing that it's even a comparison, because maintenance costs double or even triple for older planes.

[@jimmyboomsemtex9735]

a jump jet is needed to replace the old harriers. the b model lightning is the only option there. as for the hornets they are old but still look superb. few jets look that good.

[@waynefletcher9884]

And looks means? 🥱🙄😬🤣🤣🤣

[@djsmith2871]

@@waynefletcher9884 Everybody knows ugly jets suck.

[@Joseph-xj4ex]

People here are saying Spain can't afford them. Guys, SINGAPORE bought F-35s.

[@mangalores-x_x]

all 4-12 of them. Also Singapure has no basis for domestic interest in military development and industry => buy something. Spain does Eurofighter and FCAS to foster its own domestic industries.

[@andrewmetcalfe9898]

Expanding the Eurofighter fleet to 120 airframes and complementing that spine with two squadrons of F35Bs (2 x 12, plus 6 additional airframes for training and spare capacity for a total of 30 airframes) PLUS 30+ ‘loyal wingman’ type autonomous drones would be optimal for Spain. The F35 is a force multiplier ‘quarterback’ for 4+ gen planes like the Eurofighter. having just one JSF variant - the F35B - would be sufficient to keep overall fleet operating costs to a minimum, notwithstanding that variant has 2000kg less fuel than the A variant (however variable turbofan bypass upgrades and the introduction of autonomous refuelling drones will probably erase much of that as an issue). Spain has a 10 squadron strong air fleet: the above combination would permit it to maintain that force projection, plus its fixed wing naval aviation capacity and critically, obtain air supremacy over its sovereign territory or over any defined battle space that its ground troops may be operating in.

[@dayanwarna5270]

Spain operates small carriers so the f35b is the better option, so I concur.

[@highqualityorangejuice420]

One thing that you should consider is that Spain only borders allies or less developed countries making stealth unnecessary also operating two different fighter aircraft is very costly

[@andrewmetcalfe9898]

@@highqualityorangejuice420 Spain has a fixed wing naval fighter requirement. So it kind of makes having two different fighter aircraft inevitable. Besides which, if you look at Spain’s force structure over the years, their airforce has always operated multiple fighter types, so operating eurofighters (Air Force) and F35Bs (split evenly between the airforce and navy perhaps) would represent a massive streamlining of the training, maintenance logistics and supply chain aspects. Regarding the merits of the JSF, ‘stealth’ is not the main attribute: its real strengths lie in sensor fusion and teaming with other platforms - ie. the ability to ‘quarterback’ other planes and even surface assets in a battle space. It is an unprecedented and unparalleled force multiplier. Turning to stealth, the mere fact that the Armada has an air wing means that it is intended to project force on expeditionary operations. Hence, potentially fighting in an adversary’s contested airspace. So stealth: the ability to penetrate that airbase - and THEN ‘quarterback’ other assets to neutralise air defence systems is a key capability. The point behind the F35B when embarked on a LHD / small carrier - is to maintain sortie rates well in excess of conventional fighters based at ‘forward operating bases’ which may be many hundreds of nautical miles behind the contested airspace. So having a small number of F35Bs ‘on station’ and hence directing eurofighters who are doing long runtime missions from a FOB once they arrive on station is a key force multiplier. Especially if said F35Bs were operating alongside carrier embarked ‘loyal wingman’ autonomous drones. …

[@Chuck59ish]

The biggest problem is the money, like most countries, Spain has had to divert funds from other governments to fight the COVID-19 pandemic and until the pandemic is over other projects will have to be put on the back burner until the monies are available.

[@Maverick0f14]

For Spain NAVY theres no other option to replace the AV-08E Harrier+ “Matador” only the F-35B and i belive they are making that move !, for the Spain AF they gona strech those EF-2000 until the new stealth eurojet maybe buy a few F-35A for commonality with the F-35B. Italy are doing that ! Almos all in ghe euroNeiborhood already moving to F-35

[@ppipowerclass]

I am surprised that cost per unit was IN the F-35's favor. I think it boils down to the fact that they already have the Eurofighter in their inventory and the cost per hour. A lot of people don't think about that. It is just like buying a more fuel efficient car.

[@David_22]

Thing is, also the eurofighter has parts made in various countrys, spain makes the right wings and the others make other parts, witch increses cost due to transport

[@user-do5zk6jh1k]

@@David_22 The Eurofighter also has less aircraft produced

[@GonzoTehGreat]

As you correctly surmised, the decision about which fighter aircraft to purchase isn't based primarily on cost for those countries (Germany, UK, Italy, Spain) involved in Eurofighter development and production, which are all large economies with their own defence industries. By purchasing Eurofighters, these governments benefit their own domestic defence companies, provide jobs to their own citizens and maintain engineering and technology skills in the local workforce. These advantages are all more valuable/important to them than the monetary savings gained from importing a cheaper fighter aircraft from abroad. Additionally, purchasing foreign weapons systems (especially fighter aircraft, but also missiles etc.) inevitably makes the buyer dependent on the seller, which is something most countries would prefer to avoid. This is also why, for the above reasons, neither France nor Sweden will purchase US fighter aircraft. However, countries which don't have their own fighter aircraft industry (such as Switzerland, Austria, Denmark, Finland etc.) don't have these vested economic interests, because they must purchase them from abroad, so they choose based primarily on cost vs benefit.

[@santoriniblue8413]

@@GonzoTehGreat In the specific case of Spain, it faces a situation common in other geographical areas, but not in EU where for most NATO and not members, the only direct risk is Russia, thus no risk for them of veto in the use of US weapons. Spain faces an uncertainty reg US stance in case of trouble with MA. The Ifni incident is not forgotten, when the US ban on its equipment including jet fighters (F-86 Sabres) and transport (Douglas DC-3/4) obliged them to salvage and go to war with Civil War/WWII relics like Me109 fighters, He111 and Ju52 troop transports. The Air Force and Navy for its LHD, like the F35. The Air Force has traditionally mantained a grossly half/half allocation between EU and US, so the F35 should be the natural replacement for the F18s regardless of the replacement of the older Tranche 1 EF. But politics and economy may play against this as Airbus provides 12700 direct jobs, and x6 indirect jobs GR and TR, both faced a similar situation in CY crisis. The former relies on FR and the latter has developed its own industry.

[@tinto278]

Total F35s built 750 aircraft. Total typhoons built 570 aircraft..

[@nytrol2138]

Another banger

[@DK-ig8zi]

Fcas Will be used on catobar carriers, which is way different than what Spain has... So f35 B makes sense for their navy, and only their navy.

[@brandonstrife9738]

yes it will be used on France's 1 carrier.

[@Mishn0]

Biggest pro for buying more EFs: simplified logistics. Maybe not the biggest, but big con: A single type aircraft fleet may be grounded all at once for some unforeseen problem.

[@ronniefarnsworth6465]

Spain will at least buy the F35B for it's LHD !!

[@TotemicSnorlax]

Well, it is clear there is no other way to replace the harriers from the Spanish Navy without the F-35B, that is a reality and the discontinuation of anything regarding Harriers is having already a due date. From that side I would expect an order of 12+1 Units. That from the Navy point of view ( Ideally 24+1 if the deployment of a second LHS becomes a reality ) From the AirForce it is little different, there are 2 paths to be covered: First one has been mentioned , the Falcon Project "El Proyecto Halcón" that includes de purchase of 20 EFs Tranche 3 with the new AESA radar replacing the Castor and the new EW suit, and it is a combined order to the factory from Germany and Spain , Germany's project Quadriga. For the remaining ones, there are multiple options: To order F35A and keep the AirForce with 2 weapon systems as of today ( F-18/EF2000 ) To onboard in the EuroFighter LTE deployment that should be an intermediate deployment between Current EF tranches and the FCAS. Both have pros and cons. Under my perception the F35A option would be faster but only is valid in the case there would be Industrial Return or Technological Transfers associated to this kind of deals are granted. The EF LTE variant deployment even if slower would pave the FCAS deployment, securing the technological evolution and know-how required for it. But as part of a consortium this is not a decision a single country can make. Well, we just need to wait and see what would be, nevertheless to say F-35 capabilities would be a perfect complement for EF, as those two weapon systems where not designed for the same - the very same we can say if we compare F-22 and F-35 -

[@gruntusmc8922]

@@Albertkallal; Spain shouldn't mothball this carrier, maybe they can sell it to Rusia, looks like they need it so the powefull admiral Kutneszov doesn't embarrass them any more.😬😁😂😂😂😂.

[@gruntusmc8922]

@@Albertkallal;Sir it's really sad that they will give up such an important asset in the times WE're living in. I guess that it's what politics and beaurocrats do. Take care Sir.

[@swghavoc]

Three of my favorite fighters

[@gregs7562]

It'd make sense for Spain to buy F35b to replace some Hornets & the navies Harrier fleet. At least if they want to retain fixed wing naval aviation.

[@Sr.D]

The f35 vtol will be the only 35s, for replace the Harriers in the J.C. I LHD. 20 new typhoons tranche 4 (90 in total nowadays) have been just bought to replace f18 in the Canary Islands, the rest will be probably replaced with more Euro t4 till the development of the fcas it's ready... being optimistic by the end of the decade receiving first units

[@LRRPFco52]

Each F-35A now is running $77.9 million unit flyway, not $88 million. It’s been this way since Lot 14 started production in 2020, down from $79.2 million in Lot 13. Lot 12 was $82.4 million. Typhoon contract for Germany’s new 38 unit order of Tranche 4s was 5.4 Billion Euros, or 142.1 million Euros each, which is $162.25 million per Typhoon. So for the price of 1 Typhoon, you would get 2 F-35As with weapons.

[@BLY99]

This is complete nonsense, that price is just some bullshit accounting. At that price it still needs tens of millions per plane in support costs and there are several big updates needed to actually make it fully operational. The Eurofighter is also domestically manufactured. The actual budget shows that it's $110 mln per F35 and that does not even include everything. By this same logic all foreign contract sales show a price of more than $200 mln per f35.

[@LRRPFco52]

@@BLY99 FMS are done through US DoD purchasing agency at volume costs the US gets. I think what's happening is you're just learning that F-35As are the cheapest of all current Western fighters to acquire, without being familiar with the other platform costs. All we've heard by the enemy-controlled media is how expensive F-35s are, while the rest go under the radar. F-35A unit program cost with spares, weapons, and support is less than $100 million. Typhoon and Rafale unit program cost are over $200 million. You can look at the Indian Rafale deal at $213 million each. Typhoons are internationally-produced by the consortium with many critical systems and components made in UK, Germany, Spain, Italy, and the US.

[@fahadkelantan]

@@LRRPFco52 With all due respect, your numbers are off because you are looking at just flyaway costs. Flyaway costs are not the way to measure total costs. It's a lifetime cost over fixed hours, typically (8,000 hours). There was an article on Forbes just recently on the sustainment costs of the F35. Lockheed hide the true costs in the boring sustainment costs, rather than reveal it in the upfront flyaway cost which the public tend to focus on. The strategy is to take a loss on the upfront costs and make the money in the recurring costs. That's how most smartphones are sold by telecom companies with 2 year contracts, and how typically videogame consoles are sold at a loss with the income coming in from the sales of the games. That's why the Airforce commissioned the F15EX, and even threatened to make an F16 replacement that competes against the F35. The GOA (Government Office of Accountability) published a report that the F35 program's sustainment cost is $1.27 Trillion in real dollars. This is a US government agency not some "enemy-controlled media" as you put it. This is about three times (300%) the flyaway cost of the planes. In comparison, the Gripen's sustainment cost compared to the procurement cost is ([$4,700 per hour x 8,000 hours]/ Sweden's $85M flyaway cost) = 44%. Not 300%. Do you see the difference? over a lifetime (8,000 hours) a SAAB Grippen will cost $122.6M while an F35A will cost about $328M. Huge difference. So flyway costs don't mean anything. They are a distraction. The F35A (Which should be called F/A 35) is a single-engine lower-speed (Mach 1.6) flying computer, it's not built to be an air superiority purebred fighter. The F22 & F15 (Mach 2.2+) perform that role for us in the US. So the engineering from the ground up will always be cheaper, but due to the stupidity of making three variants derived from the STVOL version, and the pentagon signing contracts before the design was even finalized, Lockheed took every penny out of the poorly managed program. Here are some figures by Jane's Defence Weekly from a 2012 report on sustainment costs per hour: Gripen: $4,700 F-16: $7,700 F-18E/F: $11,00 Rafale: $16,500 Eurofighter: $18,00 F-35: $31,000 Anyways, even the typhoon is overpriced compared to performance. Comparison: - Typhoons sold to Kuwait cost: $301M per unit. - SAAB Grippens sold to Brazil cost: $111M per unit. Typhoon is clearly not the best bang for the buck. If you'd modify the SAAB Grippen to fit a $12.5 million F135 engine (191 kN thurst), it'd still be less than half the price of a Typhoon (180 kN thurst) at comparable performance levels, probably even better, with a fraction of the sustainment cost. To me it doesn't make sense to buy more Typhoons. This is just a typical case of Military Industrial Complex. The politicians in Spain don't want jobs lost, even though it's costing the country more to keep those jobs. If I was in charge, the Navy would have a mix of Harriers and F35Bs. Say 10 of them. The F35B is the only modern STOVL in the world. Maintenance would be shared with the Italian Navy. The airforce would get used Gripens or used F16s that are upgraded with modern electronics, and modern missiles. There is no need to break the bank, especially not for overpriced Typhoons. But what do I know? I am just an armchair aviation fan.

[@LRRPFco52]

@@fahadkelantan I've been studying defense acquisitions since the mid-1980s and know all about Unit Flyaway vs Unit Program vs O&M vs total ownership. What we've seen over the decades is that anytime someone tries to forecast total ownership costs over 20 years, let alone 50, they're never correct because they can't predict the future. What we do see is a thing called the bathtub graph effect. Initial introduction starts out way high, followed by rapid drop then tub bottom for most of the life, then rising costs towards end of service life. Those Jane's numbers are not uniform accounting methods, don't include full O&M, and definitely don't include total ownership. If you believe them, then you also believe a Gripen C costs less to operate than an A-10. Switzerland accounted total ownership CPFH for Gripen NG at $27,000. I'll take Swiss accounting over Jane's any day. Actual daily O&M costs for Royal Netherlands Air Force were just published. It was 11,000 Euros or $12,546 USD CPFH.

[@fahadkelantan]

​@@LRRPFco52 Well it's nice we get to chat in the modern internet age through YT. Aviation fans in the old days could only chat with those around them, who are few and far between. I just posted another comment just recently but YT has a habit of deleting my comments, maybe because I posted a link. ** Point 1: F35(A,B, & C) are expensive. No two ways about it: The GOA (Government Office of Accountability) released a report in July of this year 2021 "GAO-21-439, F-35 SUSTAINMENT: DOD Needs to Cut Billions in Estimated Costs to Achieve Affordability". If you look at page 40 of the report (page 45 in in the PDF) it states: [The F-35 program has an additional sustainment-related affordability goal called “25 by 25” that seeks to achieve a $25,000 cost per flight hour for all F-35 aircraft by 2025.58 According to F-35 Joint Program Office estimates, the actual cost per flight hour for all F-35 aircraft in the U.S. fleet in fiscal year 2019 was more than $38,000.59 DOD officials stated that “25 by 25” is a “stretch goal” based on the current cost per flight hour of the Air Force’s F-16/D aircraft.] In the footnotes, the $38K is actually in 2012 dollars to keep consistency, so it's actually $46,370 per flight hour in 2021 dollars. These are GOA numbers. I understand that cost is ever-changing, but the average right now is $46K per hour. Stealth ain't cheap. We see the same thing in the B2 vs B52. So over lifetimes of the standard 8,000 hours per aircraft: A Gripen C with your figure is [($12,720 an hour * 8,000 hours) + purchase cost of $60M)] = $161.76 Million. An F35 (let's assume A) is [($46.370 and hour * 8,000 hours) + purchase cost of (let's use your) $77.9M)] = $448.86 Million. Is an F35 three times better than a Gripen C? Well.... depends on the mission. ** Point 2: I actually like the F35: It's a good bang for the buck product. Yeah it's expensive, but its return on inventment is worth it for high end missions. Much better than overpriced, overly bureaucratic Typhoon in an overall comparison. I think the solution for all nations is to have a mixture of cheap and expensive. The idiom of "You don't drive your Ferrari to the grocery store" I am sure you are familiar with. There is no need to abuse F35 airframes for routine stuff like border patrol. Leave that for the cheaper aircraft like Gripen and F16. Even low end bombing missions against low tech enemies like ISIS. Leave that for the cheap planes. Leave the high end planes for high end missions. The F35B version is a no brainer. Every Navy needs them. It seems Israel used the F35A to beat the S300 in Iran and S400 in Syria. Aviation Week & Space Technology made calculations that an S400 can only detect an F35 around 21 miles. Which is excellent for us. Thank God for American engineers. So it is worth it? Absolutely. But not for everything. ** Point 3: Both the legacy Hornets and Typhoon are a handful. Spain already has 70 of them. I read your comment on the SU57 killing the Typhoon. I did some reading and articles were quoting this one guy on Quora who did some calculations on the RCS of the SU57. The author is Abhirup Sengupta in the post "Why do some people claim that SU-57 is an overrated fighter aircraft and it’s not even near of F-35 in comparison?". He states that given the SU-57's claims of being several times less detectable than an Su-27, then the SU-57 would have an RCS of around that of an F-18E Super Hornet without any attachments. I don't know how accurate his calculations are, but certainly Russian stealth is nowhere near US stealth. Even if we assume the SU-57 is 100% clone of an F-22, Russia has only built 12 units, with only talks of 78 on order. We have 195 F-22s to take them out. There is no realistic scenario of Western Europe going to war with Russia without the US to back them. That's why Spain and the rest of Europe don't spend their agreed upon 2% of GDP on the military. They are freeloading off of the US. The EU could afford all these aircraft but they'd rather freeload off of us. And we allow it because we'd rather keep the casualties of war on their soil than ours. I think Abhirup Sengupta's calculations are near to accurate. It's the same results for the J20's RCS. There is a paper by two legitimate professors from Australia doing an RCS analysis of the J20. The article is "A Preliminary Assessment of Specular Radar Cross Section Performance in the Chengdu J-20 Prototype" by Dr Michael J Pelosi & Dr Carlo Kopp. My understanding from this paper is, they estimated using advanced RCS calculations with known figures of radar absorbing materials, that the J20 would have an RCS of around 0.5-0.8 M2. The FA-18 E/F Super Hornet naked is about 1.0, while the F-35 is estimated to be around 0.001 M2. India claims to have detected them over their borders using the SU-30. Who knows if the Chinese wanted to be detected or not. China says they built 150 of these so far, while India Times estimates they only built 60-70 so far. I think Communists are full of shit, and if they actually did build 150, they would have been showing them off in their parades. Russia and China both mostly use Flankers. Not supposed 5th generation fighters. There are hundreds of Flankers. You can't win a war on just advanced fighters, and not all of our allies are allowed to have the F-35 to begin with. We blocked Turkey and India because they wanna get the S400 system. Taiwan is a liability, as well as all the ASEAN nations. Everyone has a limited budget, so you spend on what gets the job done for the cheapest cost. The Gripen C of the Thai airforce had a kill ratio of 41-6 against the Chinese J-11 (SU-27 knock off) in beyond visual range dogfights. So I am pretty sure the Gripen E with a Meteor can handle a SU-35. I am sure the Typhoons can handle all the Flankers with ease, which it was designed to do from the very beginning. Based on those RCS calculations, probably even the SU-57s and J-20s as well. I am pretty sure EU militaries have the real RCS figures for those planes, which affects their procurement decisions. Former Navy pilot Gonky who's YT channel The Ready Room, flew a legacy F-18 against a Malaysian SU-30 and beat it within visual range. It'd smash it in beyond visual range.

[@stealth225]

LM pitch had 50 F-35's ( 25 of A and 25 of B)

[@suprvrmedia6235]

Im from Spain, and they will go with the Eurofighter because a part of it is made in here. It is not the best plane compare to the F35, but some of the wings of the eurofighter are made in Airbus Spain. That's why, but the f35 should be the best, because we are using harriers for the Armada...

[@suprvrmedia6235]

Armada=Navy Ejercito del aire=USAF For better understanding I've been into the Airbus facilities in Madrid, and the Eurofighters wing is an important part of it. So yeah, mixed interest...

[@fahadkelantan]

@@suprvrmedia6235 The problem is long term contracts and the military industrial complex. I think you guys in Spain should build the Gripen in Spain with a bigger engine. I think the Typhoon is highly overrated compared to it's cost.

[@suprvrmedia6235]

@@fahadkelantan we cannot build Grippens tho. But I see what you are saying, Grippens are similar, but cheaper.

[@juanfrancisco9417]

@@suprvrmedia6235 Non. I+D+I and fabrication:EUROFIGTHER Typhoon: UK, Germany, Spain and Italy. I+D+I FCAS (figther six generación): 33% France, 33% Spain and 33% Germany. Future fabricación FCAS (figther six generación): 33% France, 33% Germany and 33% Spain. SAAB AJ-39 Grippen non ist spanish.

[@suprvrmedia6235]

@@juanfrancisco9417 Hola juan, supongo que seas español. Quiza no lo entendiste, pero el tio decia que debiamos comprar gripens, que son mas baratos y similares al EF, y yo le decia que no podemos fabricarlos y comprarlos seria una erejia.

[@admiraljellicoe9268]

Also there was a prototype of a naval typhoon by Britian but the concept was dropped soon after being worked on

[@juanmontull8550]

Spain wants both planes, each one of them have it's strong and weak pionts and one could be better than the other depending on the mission, so as a Spaniard I´ll take both. Amazing video by the way!

[@madkabal]

It's a political decision. Defensive capability was a secondary concern.

[@josephwhiskeybeale]

F35B to replace the Harriers but all the Hornets should be replaced by Typhoons.

[@briansparks4926]

I'm not surprised that Spain would select the Eurofighter for 2 reasons. Fleet commonality and political. Airbus is located in Spain as well as other countries and they produce the Eurofighter. Spain will likely replace the Harrier II fighter with the F 35B variant. Whether Spain will aquire the F 35A variant is up in the air.

[@ignaciocuestaruiz9317]

Where did you get all the f35 Spanish airforce models you show in this video…love it

[@mikeck4609]

Actually, the typhoon does NOT carry a greater weapons load as the F-35 carries internally AND externally…you are comparing it to yhe F-35 interns loadout only. Also, the typhoon cannot super cruise with a combat load out while yhe F-35 can at Mach 1.3 for 200 NM with an internal load People confuse air show performance with combat performance

[@patdbean]

Dose the F35 carry it's full stores load as far as the typhoon. Can the f35 supper cruse ? Isn't 1.3 it's top speed WITH after burner ?

[@macmac0712]

f-35 can supercruise remarkably well and its max speed is mach 1.8 with full ab

[@mikeck9946]

@@patdbean yes…it can. B/c it carries more fuel internally than an F-14 (about 18,000 lbs) AND that is for only one engine. It has more weapons stations and more available since the ECM pods and targeting pods are internal in the F-35, don’t cause drag and don’t take up weapons stations. The F-35 has limited supercruise: meaning it accelerates to Mach 1.5 and - when thrust is reduced to max mil (no burner), it can cruise at Mach 1.3 for about 200 nautical miles. But here is the important part: the F-22 and F-35 are the ONLY western aircraft (unsure about SU-57) that can supercruise COMBAT LOADED. The F-35 can supercruise carrying an ECM pod (internal), targeting pod (internal) 2- GBU-10 2,000lbs bombs and 2 amraams….all internal. So it’s still slick. The Eurofighter has to carry both bombs, both missiles, targeting pod and ECM pod on external wing stations. Because if all that drag, it needs drop tanks for MORE drag. So I will be flying in my “slick” f-35 while you fly your Eurofighter wiyh all that crap handing off of it. Who do you think is faster? It’s not about air show performance speed. The question is “how fast can you go in combat and how far can you do it.

[@mikeck9946]

And none of this matters if you can’t get to your target to deliver it. Even with External stores, the incredible sensors and sensor fusion of the F-35 allow it to locate (and navigate around) surface to air threats regardless if it’s current “stealthiness”. It knows where you are, what you can see, when you can shoot AND, most importantly, where to fly so that you can’t see him The F-35 is an incredible aircraft. It’s a shame people (not you…but many) want to look at its top speed of Mach 1.6 and declare it slow. Then decry it’s “dogfighting” ability b/c it’s not as maneuverable as new super-maneuverable aircraft. They never bother to consider that the “max speed” is a slick aircraft at 40,000 feet that is out of fuel by the time it gets to that speed. They don’t consider that the F-35 can be “slick” even in combat conditions so it can come much closer or it’s top speed than others. And they don’t considers that your ability to dogfight is such a minor quality (considering I have all aspect missiles that I can target off-boresight and; therefore, I don’t have to “maneuver onto your six”) as to be absolutely dwarfed by BVR capability and, even moreso, knowing where everyone else is while no one knows where the f-35 is

[@patdbean]

@@mikeck9946 good point, so are the likes of typhoon and French rafile only super cruse capable with clean wings? So while not Combat capable ?

[@patdbean]

Depends how long you think the FCAS is really going to be, and if you want to maintain carrier based STOVL or go for CATOBAR in any new carrier. f35B/typhoon is working quite well for the UK. But I will worry that FCAS will go the way of older European fighter projects , with the French pulling out because they want something different to what the other partners want.

[@xyzaero]

FCAS and Tempest will merge very soon. Industry and politicians are already working on combining the 2 programs. The French can fuck off if they want, but the rest of the major players in Europe will built one platform and will not make the 1980s failure of building 3 different jets again.

[@patdbean]

@@xyzaero the french will still want a carrier capable jet. And haven't the french sold more outside Europe than the typhoon ?

[@rafaelcuevas3209]

Turkey has ordered to Navantia a carrier biger than Anadoulos, something close to a CATOBAR.

[@patdbean]

@@rafaelcuevas3209 CATOBAR/STOVL is about launch system not size. The UK's 65,000 ton QE class carriers are STOVL . They could have had catapults fitted and deployed F35C rather then the B version, but less of them

[@rafaelcuevas3209]

@@patdbean The carrier ordered must have catapults and arrested recovery. Theoretically in order to use Bayractar TB3 drones, but it could also use Rafale fighters.

[@trazador22]

Eurofighter. Spanish's industry.

[@calvorota74]

Actually Spain is spending much more than 1%. Because general cost as special progrmas, investigation, or extra cost as deploys for NATO or UN are outside of the ministerio of defense. If we include that cost we will go to 1,8%.

[@ciudadanoanonimo5243]

Eurofighters are our own jets man!! 🤣🤣🤣, we build them, what did you expected?? Regards from Spain 🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇺👋🏻😎

[@jorehir]

All good, but Spain doesn't really need the F-35. Its only real military opponent is Morocco, on which it simply has to keep the upper hand. Even very old Eurofighters will be good enough for that.

[@Ric33194]

Spain will get the F-35B, it has no other choice. Politicians will pick the EF for two simple reasons 1- keep jobs in Spain 🇪🇸 2- it’s a European made fighter. It doesn’t matter if the -35A is slightly cheaper, better technology, jobs and European politics will tilt the scale towards the Eurofighters

[@ranua9327]

There is a choice... to keep flying harrier AV-8 B+ AND join the Turkey option with drones. Spain and Turkey have a good relation in weapons industry nowadays

[@rafaelcuevas3209]

Turkey is using drones because US has put the Turkish out of the F-35 Programme and banned them from their purchase. Spain and Turkey have very good relations and will cohoperate. Spain will get Turkish drones but still F-35B is necesary.

[@ranua9327]

@@rafaelcuevas3209 no doubt about it, but is the Armada going to get the money? Turkey has been banned and Spain don't want to spend money: different reasons, same situation

[@rafaelcuevas3209]

@@ranua9327 Turkey has signed for the development so they will put the money. You are right about the reluctance of the Spanish governments to put the money the Army needs. Anyway, I think that Spain knows they need the F-35B and probably F-35A as well. The first one because Harriers have to be replaced, the second due to the Spanish doctrine. They always have a combination of both European and American planes.

[@ranua9327]

@@rafaelcuevas3209 Indeed

[@dawnsparrow4477]

Fifth generation aircraft ( F-35 lightening ) more suitable for nearly future operations and European aviation systems after its published in several countries in European 🇪🇺 content

[@JenkemSuperfan]

Is there even any indication that the FCAS will be made available to other countries?

[@Karthagast]

Of course the FCAS will be available to other countries, not just the developers: Germany, France and Spain. Just like the Typhoon is availalble to anyone having budget enough to purchase it.

[@brianfoley4328]

All of the "positives" of the Eurofighter makes it the obvious choice. The F-35 is a great aircraft and the "B" version makes sense for Spain's Navy, but in toto the Eurofighter makes more sense. It boils down to does Spain "jump" into 5th generation now or wait until the 6th generation comes out...kinda of "Bird in the hand versus two in the bush". Essentially Spain can't really go wrong which ever way they go.

[@michaelstrelley2919]

UK should sell its Eurofighters to Spain to pay for the 80 F-35As that the RAF want and the extra 20 F-35Bs for the Royal Navy. Then Spain could sell their F-18As to Algeria who are shopping for 4th Gen fighters.

[@yutakago1736]

Choosing a fighter jet cannot be based on unit cost factor alone. The following factors need to taken into consideration. (1) Is the fighter jet able to handle the threat ? If you send a 4th generation fighter jet against a 5th generation stealth fighter jet. Will it survive ? (2) Is the operation cost and maintenance cost high ? If the fighter jet unit cost is low but the operating and maintenance cost are high. Is there any cost saving ? (3) Is the after sales service good ? If the after sales service are poor, the air force may have problem keeping the fighter jet flying in the air. For example, an Asia bought the MIG-29 using barter trade (Palm oil for MIG-29 ). However, they have problem getting spare parts so most of the time, the MIG-29 are just decoration on the runway. (4) Does the deal include spare parts ? Like factor (3) and (4), it is important that spare parts are widely available. Ideally, the spare parts can be license produce locally because they are strategically important. The spare parts are related to the aircraft reliability. Fighter jets worn out spare parts need to be replace periodically so that the fighter jets do not become flying coffins.

[@bjjace1]

Most of Europe is flying F35. A handful of Eurofighters is not a bad thing. It’s good to have multiple tools in your tool box.

[@GrizzAxxemann]

Spain's procurement system is still better than Canada's!

[@xyzaero]

Spain will need the F-35B to replace the NAVY Harriers. They could buy like 30 F-35 Bs and the rest Typhoon Tranch 3/4.

[@rohananand7263]

How will FCAS help Spanish Navy? FCAS is going to be a conventional aircraft and not VTOL. Italy, Japan and in future ROK will have a mix of F-35A and B along with one or two additional fighter types. Solely relying on single fighter type is not a wise choice.

[@jimjefftube]

Sounds like a pretty good deep dive into this decision the Spanish will be making. This would be a tough decision, but maybe Spain could take over the maintenance of F-35 to replace the lost jobs that would result if they chose F-35? Maybe we could sub out the maintenance that Turkey previously planned to do before they were removed from the F-35 program?

[@crystaldiamond4695]

F35 looks good and strong.

[@jameskester7745]

I think it's kind of crazy that any Airforce with a limited amount of planes wouldn't want a more jack of all trades like the F-35. But as long as your one of America's alliances, you don't have to worry about a big budget military, or the worry of needing equipment that can work many platforms

[@davewolfy2906]

Does the F35 price include the engine?

[@iHelpSolveIt]

The problem is not the purchase price, its the running for the F35... The typhoon is cheaper to run.

[@jabjabato7791]

Spain decidedly, has bet on the x-wing generation. May the force be with you. 😁

[@SalvaJ3_GB]

The main threat for Spain is Morocco. If Spain buys the F-35 takes the risk that USA government forbids the use of its technology in a eventual conflict between Spain and Morocco. If you spend billions of dollars in airfighters you must be able to use them when is needed.

[@enriqueburgos9754]

Spain has a thorn in its soul with North American weapons. In 1958 Morocco attacked Spain during the Ifni war and the North American government prohibited the use of the aircraft donated by them to defend themselves. The F-35 is very likely to be blocked in a similar case... There is no confidence. The video report very well done and very knowledgeable. Congratulations. In Spain this debate will continue for at least the next 8 years.

[@tinto278]

Total F35s built 750 aircraft. Total typhoons built 570 aircraft..

[@arnfrancistapic761]

Arriba España! from your fomer enemy to current friend Philippines

[@cvjanzen550]

EF was definitely the best choice 👌

[@Bob10009]

Buy Typhoon to replace the oldest Hornets, buy F35b to replace the Av-8b Harriers (not av-8a that the video kept showing). Then keep their options open as more Hornets are retired, either more F-35b or more Typhoons until they have a two type fleet. By then, the FCAS will either be real or will have been cancelled. If it happens, replace the Typhoons, if it’s cancelled, buy more F35 or join the Tempest program. Ooh look, just like the RAF are doing…..🇬🇧😎

[@Idahoguy10157]

Joint German-French joint military procurement development rarely works

[@enriquevelasco4972]

Son aviones para funciones diferentes no se pueden comparar

[@edgardoaverryargomido6214]

EUROFIGHTER TYPHOON is an excellent multi-role fighter aircraft designed to be highly agile & has a fly by wire systems & has a very impressive controls, this could give Spain a level flexibility and efficiency on their aerial defense while F-35 LIGHTNING II if being considered by Spanish Air & Space Force could give Spain an excellent aerial defense deterrent towards year 2070

[@bw7778]

Wrong! I'm an Avionics engineer. and believe me, this is a good decision by Spain!! Both planes are excellent, but they are pitched at very different capabilities. The Typhoon is excellent and also represents good value for money. The F35 is also excellent in it's entirely different role (that Spain doesn't need), but also massively overpriced...

[@ameritoast5174]

How is it overpriced? Are they not cheaper than typhoons and yes the per operating hour is higher, the F-35 continues to drop in price for purchase and operating costs. I would also think having to continue upgrading the Typhoon will cost even more in the long run.

[@jeebusk]

Switzerland? What did they order 2 or 3...

[@jeebusk]

Google says 36 btw

[@saine414]

Thing is that their eurofighter will be out dated within 10 years.

[@dennisleighton2812]

There is no way! that Spain would get F-35s for $88mil each! [I'm willing to bet that would be a special price for the USAF, for a BIG order! I can't see a client country getting that.] Also, Spain has a direct interest in the building of Typhoons, so why go for the more expensive plane in terms of operating expenses for the next 2-3 decades (when it is certainly going to escalate)? Makes no sense. Also, with the US's inability to deliver F-35s to countries with existing orders well into the 2030s, when would Spain actually receive them. The UK are still waiting for their order to be filled, and because delivery is so slow, have cut their order considerably, due to non-delivery! The next generation European fighter is also in development, so an interim Typhoon would make more sense. Anyway, the latest Typhoons now being built is a far cry form the old Tranche 1 planes. The new Typhoons have most of the high tech capabilities of the F-35s and have access to some better ordinance that F-35 doesn't. It also has a better gun.

[@jdjo5950]

We will buy the F35B for the Navy first, basically is not just a very good option, it's the only option for our Navy. And probably some F35A for the AirForce later as I've heard when we increase our military budget

[@jammiedodger7040]

F-35 maybe cheaper to buy then Typhoon but it cost a lot more to operate the F-35 over the Typhoon

[@EmisoraRadioPatio]

I still can't believe Spain hasn't purchased F-35s to replace it's Harriers on the Juan Carlos. The Harriers are simply to old, and why have a modern aircraft carrier with no modern aircraft?

[@websitemartian]

2:55 nide

[@Behemot_]

F35 B will come to the Navy. Is the only plane to operate with our LHD. Is only question of time and budget.

[@salvador9369]

Spain I´m sure will adquire F-35A and B in the future when Harrier II + and E/F-18 Hornet are discharged. F-35B is a must buy (they want or not), because there isn´t any other, simply. F-35A will be buy too because the Spanish Air Army always wants 2 different type of aircraft, not only one and they want the F-35A (they aren´t silly), but when E/F-18 Hornet is going to "die" (maybe in 2026-28 will be announced a pre-sign for the purchase of the F-35A and B too), because Spain has a very low budget and in the last two or three years has been spent all on many upgrades and new expensive projects. Even the president has had to pump in more extra money to secure everything and has said there will be no more money for military spending during this decade for more new future projects (2028-2030). In my opinion is that the real reason, not another. Regards.

[@paladin0654]

Did you ever think that you would quote the price of the F-35 as less expensive compared to another jet? 3:45 When you compare useful load, with the F-35 using external hard points, the jets a equal.

[@Bahureksa.Jagarekca]

Dulu mah gw kagak pd pakai pesawat tempur dengan sayap terbalik, soalnya banyak yg nanya..

[@Johnmk24]

F-35 is a Stealth assassin! EF is a soldier. E/F is a highly maneuverable, capable Jet. Spain has interest in buying EF. They’re a partner. They’ll be sorry somewhere in the future if there’s a conflict.

[@chasefreedom5178]

Short of stealth and electronics suite the euro fighter is superior in performance in all categories. Just as the f16, f18, and f15 in all variants. As for stealth its superiority depends on technology of today, not tomorrow.

[@paulzink2492]

Keep building the typhoon,and by some f18 until they have enough Typhoon. Both very capable fighters. They are on the right strategy. A swarm of the same fighter planes. Will overwhelm the better planes. Better planes can't take out the of 50 to 1 for example. Germany thought they could win the tank battle in WW 2 with a better tank but the other side more one tank that wasn't as good but over welmed the better. It's no different in the air. U can over tech a battle.

[@yasinwaghat6096]

Wasn't this down to workshare as well, Lockheed Martin will be developing and manufacturing majority of the jet so that's US jobs (mostly). Whilst the jets will be manufactured in Spain, creating high paying Spanish jobs.

[@RompehuevosCompulsivo]

I have to say that I agree, we need the F35, but for the time being, and provided that the upcoming Typhoons will be based in the Canaries, perhaps the Typhoons are the better choice. The only threat to the Canaries is Morocco, and 20 F35s to counter Moroccan F16 and Mirages seems overkill. I would prefer the F35s to replace the Hornets based in Torrejón or aboard the LHD Juan Carlos I. Something else is that Spain prefers twin engine fighters, but I presume this can be skipped in the F35 case. Operating two different platforms is no problem. We already did when operating Mirages and F4s, Hornets and Mirages, or Typhoons and Hornets. Hope that the next administration makes smarter moves and gets those Lightnings.

[@kqckeforyou4433]

I think that the Eurofighter is a great Plane but also F-35. I think it's hard to compare both Fighter because one is more of a front line Fighter and the other more of a recon Jet who use the massive Missile Armament of Aircraft like F-15e to blast enemy Aircraft out of the sky. I myself hope that what happend to the F-15e to F-15ex also happens to the Eurofighter. There already studies to increase its engine power and newer technology's like Adaptive cycle engine or Exoskeletal engine would increase its capabilities massiv. Also modification to a new Radome , a bigger EW suit ,V-tail and use of new Ram's like Ceramic Ram types would make it more a 5 gen then 4./4.5 gen fighter. All what is needed is a little kick in the right Direktion and we are on track for a Super Eurofighter xD

[@wiryantirta]

Wouldn’t a naval FCAS be a CATOBAR jet? Unless the Spanish Armada, is planning full deck carrier then I don’t see how this is even a consideration. If they really want to retain fixed wing capability for the Armada then getting F-35Bs would be the only choice, regardless what the Air Force does.

[@BladeRunner21577]

I think one of the bestest plus points of the Eurofighter over the F-35 that the F-35 can just never hope to complete with is the whole new system that would be required to own and operate it. They already have mechanics and training on operations and all manner of other support required to operate a fighter jet for the Eurofighter. IF they went with the F-35 then they would need to buy that all over again which puts the cost to buy much much higher that the Eurofighter, even though the Eurofighters price tag per jetis higher. That together with the obvious political fallout that comes from buying them, that Turkey fell foul of when it bought the S-400 missile defence system from Russia. Then there are the other comparisons to do with capabilities too of course... But even countries have to be practical.

[@Bahureksa.Jagarekca]

Sekarang mah ada eurofighter jumlahnya satu skuadron

[@juanmontull8550]

The discussion in Spain consists in the following points: 1st: The F-35 is the only replacement for the Harrier for the Armada. 2nd: The lack of economic return, it is a big problem because Spain will not buy the F-35 unless exists a return for the country. 3rd: The Price (is too expensive) that would produce an enourmus discontent of the opposition and the population. 4th: The dependence on the US, Spain wants to be less dependant on the United States in terms of military equipment.

[@seppfodasog]

Lets take the Gripen.

[@gregs7562]

Get some F35b so they can be operated by the Armada off the carriers/LHD. The future French FCAS will not be stovl & not compatible with the smaller Spanish carriers.

[@KernowekTim]

Politics and Pesos baby. This video is a real eye-opener. great content as always. I hope that all's good with you my friend. F35 all the way...

[@suprvrmedia6235]

Euros tho... Spain is not mexico

[@BicornioSPA]

Pesos? Probably you are the most intelligent in your country..

[@cpawp]

The FCAS system will arrive delayed, because the european/ french aerospace industry has no experience with a gen5 system and wants to to a jump over 2 generation to produce a working 6th gen system. This strategy is risky, it might work - but experience shows there will be massive delays and financial overruns. The FCAS system is just a bringing in financially Germany, Spain and possibly others to let the expensive and not really competitive french aerospace industry survive a few years longer...

[@perelfberg7415]

You are probably right but the 6th gen. Will likely be a result of what works well and what tech will be used in future air combat. Remember that the categorising ingeneration is not a liniar development. Its just a way to describe differences. Assumes that all fighters are employed in the same way. Some thing that is far from true. Ex swedish and finnish airforce have a vastly different way of using its fighters compared to Ex US or UK that actually have strategic depth and potential numerical advantage. Smaller countrys have to create local numerical advantage in another way wich will lead to other requierments on its fighters. Ex really short turnaaround time ans many missions aday

[@Klliansimabras]

No experience with 5gen system ?! We just build Dassault Rafale to be more agile, not stealthy as F35...

[@danbarb9728]

In Germany the question is now to either buy F-35 or F-18 super hornets to replace the Tornado system. EF2000 has no nuclear strike capability. That is cleverly done from the US to not certifiy the EF2000 as a nuclear carrier. So in germany the decision is now F35 or superhornet + growler. I would to see a new next generation jet beeing developed but time is running out now because of russia situation. I hope F35 can carry the Meteor missile like the Typhoon because it has to be a really nice missile according to many experts.

[@mangalores-x_x]

you are out of date: 1) Airbus also did not want the certification because they do not want to hand over software and blue prints to the USA. 2) Germany will buy F-35 3) Germany will expand Eurofighter for ECR role.

[@danbarb9728]

@@mangalores-x_x i wasnt out of date regarding the F-35 because that was the situation two days ago, now they will buy the F-35 and other weapons and projects are planed like equip the isreali Hera drone with weapons, develop euro drone, MBT, replace the Patriot system and many more things. Amount of soldiers in service etc.

[@jon1801]

The comment about numbers of Armada F35B's is rather silly, they only operate a few Harriers anyway, around twelve. Italy is also buying a few F35B's for small carrier ops. There is commonality with the Royal Navy who already operate that model. Typhoon suits Spains needs in all respects at lower operating costs and is also a combat proven aircraft. Also software updates are not subject to American approval, and they can be withheld at whim.

[@urbancoyote4840]

The f-35 is the overall best pick 👍

[@taiwanno1wan126]

only realistic option is f35b. Spain can replace the harrier and f18 with the one aircraft. For such a small number the f35a wont even be worth it as its too different to the f35b. you could even argue that the f35c is a better replacement as its designed for carriers just like the hornet so they strengthen the frame and landing gear which makes both planes more robust and last longer.