F4U-4B vs BF109 K4

[@wruenvadam]

I know you were desperate, but the one thing that the 109K-4 doesnt really have is low speed maneuvering. The Corsair can just hang and remain in control very well, and if you do things right, can get some pretty awesome shots on 109s if you get them to play your game, which many often do because they still think that the Corsair is too heavy to maneuver when in fact it can, and the amount of power it has means that it can stay on them in the vertical better than they think. Then theres the F2G which does this even better with over 3000 horsepower. My friend and I did a fight between the F4U-4B and the F2G-1 and it was neck and neck the entire time with the F2G barely scraping out a win because of the power advantage in vertical and stall maneuvers. I might say that the F4U-4B is a little better in maneuverability, but when it's that close I don't think it matters.

[@Rogueginger69]

I agree, the massive 4 bladed props on the Corsair are way more efficient at low speeds than a 109 propeller. The 109 has a very good power to weight ratio though.

[@pioneer_1148]

The corsair may be better at low speed manoeuvring and it also has a fairly decent advantage in turn rate. However, the K4 massively outclimbs the F4U4B. The 109 pilot played pretty horribly as he repeatedly throws away positional advantages by flying strait or throws away energy advantages by coming down way too early but he should have easily won this fight. If you're fighting a 109 you want to keep the fight as horizontal as possible. The F4U will slightly outturn it but in any kind of vertical manoeuvres it's completely outclassed. Remember the 4B is at 6.0 because it has amazing guns, while its performance definitely isn't bad most planes at this BR are better, that means it has to be played to it's advantages. Against the Japanese and Italians that's speed, against 109's and 190's and tempests that's turn rate and against spitfires and Ta152H's ... good luck.

[@wruenvadam]

@@pioneer_1148 It isn't mostly because of its guns. When I had that duel against a friend of mine with them using an F4U-4B and me using an F2G, the F2G has a slight edge in vertical energy retention, stall control, climb, and about even if slightly worse in low speed responsiveness because of its added weight although it is made up for by the 3000hp paddle bladed monster in the front. It has six .50s. It isn't that much better and yet I do just as well in that as the F4U-4B. You underestimate the F4U a bit too much. It is outclimbed by the K-4 to be sure, but not massively. This isn't the difference between a Hellcat and a 109G-2 here. It is quite a bit closer, and not enough to make a substantial and clear difference in this situation which, if you hadn't realized, is a duel, and the F4U especially at duel altitudes will have much better acceleration so it starts with more energy. American planes are very dangerous on equal energy terms, especially later ones that can build it just as easily as they lose it. The way I see it, the F4U is like a fat Yak. It is still a jack of all trades aircraft. It can energy fight, it can turn fight, it has speed, and still has a good climb. Just because it doesn't do all of these better than anything it faces it is worse. I have fought many 109s in random battles, and there are ways to mitigate the Corsair's weaknesses. Not overusing flaps is a big one since it isn't the greatest at retaining energy. It is decent, but not as good as anything German that it faces. Knowing when to bank your energy and when to use it in a vertical fight if you have the better maneuvering aircraft is EXTREMELY important. I did this back when I flew the Hellcat when it was 3.7. I got over on multiple 109s using this trick if I managed to force equal energy. Now not all pilots will give you this chance because at the end of the day, if they have the overall better performing aircraft like a G-2, there is only so much you can do, but for those you can force to slip just enough, it can work out if you do it right and are patient enough. This also means that you need to cut back on your judgement of the 109 pilot. Like I said, it was initiated as a duel custom battle. You start at the same altitude, and it is up to your plane's performance to give you the energy advantage, and climbing would give you very little as you slow when you climb, negatively affecting the true energy difference between you and your opponent. In this situation the 109 cannot build its vertical advantage quickly without being shot down. The corsair WILL be faster at the start and the first several turns will be dangerous especially if the Corsair pilot is maintaining their energy well even if the 109 is doing all they can. The Corsair isn't just dangerous because of its guns. It is dangerous because it has very few weaknesses that aren't particularly that far off what most of its opponents can do, so it makes it difficult to fight just like any Yak. It always has tools in its belt against most planes that it faces. Can't say the same for Japanese Zeros. This is also why the Ki-84s are dangerous as well, and is also why I very much enjoy the Spitfire Mk14 over the Mk9, and then you have the UFO like Yak-3U which has so much all at once that it doesn't really make sense. The 109K-4 is to the F4U-4B, as the Hornet Mk3 is to... well... literally anything it faces, because it climbs and flies faster than anything it faces while also turning worse than literally any other prop... except maybe the Ta152C. But I say that to mean, even though the Hornet has the same advantages while ALSO enjoying an air start, it is still harder to fly because the moment it gets any sort of stuck in and loses most of its energy advantage, it is in a fair bit of trouble just like the K-4. It is not the type of plane to get into a fight unless it has and can maintain an great energy advantage. If it can't or is presented with a situation where it does not have energy superiority, then it is in serious trouble until it can. The Bf109 K-4 is a good aircraft in random battles, but it isn't a good dueling aircraft.

[@yamamotoisoroku7481]

re you guys's skills equally matched, i think if he persists going up instead of the way down, you probably get lost or I may underrate 4b's power. anyway, the 4b's flaps re brilliant aren"t they combine with decent climb rate.

[@Rogueginger69]

I agree, in fact I was expecting him to get the energy advantage and I was gonna dive out and try to reverse him. But between his mistakes and the 4B's awesome flaps and power I was just able to get the nose high enough for the shot. The 4B's massive 4 bladed propeller doesn't lose efficiency at low speeds like the 109's little 3 bladed prop does.

[@gkmginger56]

what I observe:Bf 109 K4 good at vertical manuever so it is true that they are energy fighters, means target slower target for better chance of winning, I can see how desperate the mouse cursor of the F4U to aim which is what is written in the discription. good information to know, nice

[@Rogueginger69]

Yeah the 109 K4 has to use the vertical against the F4U-4B but my Corsair can hang on its massive 4 bladed prop and I have a thousand more horsepower so it makes for a really close fight

[@sherlocksinha2435]

The trick for me is to never go full vertical into a prop hang since the 4b has better flaps and a lower stall plus a big engine that doesn't loose thrust . Instead a spiral climb at around 250 kmph to abuse the better power to weight to dictate the fight

[@Rogueginger69]

@@sherlocksinha2435 Smart strategy

[@N-L3]

The K-4 is an absolute animal, nice shot there buddy

[@suspiciousfish3553]

I think the deployment landing flaps at some parts were a bit unnecessary, because it caused you to spend too much energy which is crucial in these types of stall fights. Takeoff or combat would be a bit better when you don't need to point your nose that hard. Great duel though!

[@wickedwilliwonka]

Would be interesting to see how you got him into that stall fight in the first place. Good job!

[@Rogueginger69]

Thanks and yeah the K4 can climb soo goodly

[@GabbieGirl007]

Can you do somthing with the P-63 or Bell P-39 KingKobruh?

[@berserk.0185]

you use way too much takeof flaps and you loose all of your energy, if the enemy have done the correct move you were done in the first minute

[@Rogueginger69]

I agree and I don't play like that anymore. With that said tho... the f4u4b and f8f seem to be able to prop hang and use flaps to not over shoot really well

[@Chiga14]

Wait! You play on xbox with a keyboard and mouse? If yes, me too!

[@Rogueginger69]

Lol yes

[@tartzmir7934]

K4 suffers tho , i think it deserve to sit at 5.0 instead

[@Rogueginger69]

Nah man, K4 only suffers from lack of skilled pilots flying it. Go watch Dead Inside kzbin.info/www/bejne/hpuknpeweseAba8 fly it. K4 is a top contender in the right hands.

[@tartzmir7934]

@@Rogueginger69 honestly the only advantage the K4 has is acceleration energy retention ,dive speed and vertical, we are not talking about dues here , iam talking about the real game situation , even if you sideclimb , there will be F2Gs waiting for u anywhere and they can easily cat up even if u try to dive a way plus your wing limit is the same as other bf109 which sucks because most allies aircraft already got wings that can withstand more than 800kph , further more they flaps are strong and can be deploy in an instance while the 109 flap starting from the F variants are just slow and weak further more the allies aircraft could just use flap to complement for their bad vertical turn plus german team are often lone wolf or ju 288s they are totally useless often gettimg killed 8 minutes into the game even if you have skill , you will likely to win in the 109 because the turn sucks and enemies often will call back up on u so even if u run , doubt u can outrun them cause of the wing limits and ur speed

[@Rogueginger69]

@@tartzmir7934 You make valid points, and I use to be in the same boat. But all my experiences with the K4 recently makes me believe its the ultimate fighter pilots plane in war thunder. Its not a easy to do well in the K4 because its for end game players. You have to have be able to manage flaps and manual engine controls for propeller pitch airbrake overshoot method. You have to also be able switch to SB midfight depending on what you are doing so you get better aoa (angle of attack). You will also have to be good at flying while looking backwards while doing reversals. You will have to know everything about the planes you are fighting so you know how to fight them. The K4 or just 109's in general are highly capable and challenging to fly... but very rewarding.

[@yamamotoisoroku7481]

@@Rogueginger69 do y think K4 can beat mk22 or p51h if both pilots have top flying skills

[@Rogueginger69]

@@yamamotoisoroku7481 I personally would rather be in a Mustang or Spitfire for sure. But if you're in a K4 and you use all the right tricks at all the right times it can be very confusing for people who are confident in killing K4's. I say this from experience, I have done some duels against some experienced k4 mains in the dueling server and that's why how I formed this opinion. Yes in air rb with a random pilot the k4 is not very scary. However an extremely experienced pilot in a K4 who has equal or higher energy state is pretty much a death sentence unless you have back up or you run to aaa. But this is all just my opinion based from my experiences.