Fabio Bidini on Rachmaninoff, Music, and Life

[@kpunkt.klaviermusik]

Even the great Romantic composers were not "romantic" in the way Mr. Bidini is using this term. Romantic music is about suffering, about longing, about despair and hopelessness. Hence I would call Rachmaninoff's music "romantic music" in the word's truest sense. But it's not music for a romantic candle dinner. That's for sure!

[@Quotenwagnerianer]

You follow the same misconception about "romanticism" that most people do. Not one of the attributes you picked describe the idea properly.

[@kpunkt.klaviermusik]

@@Quotenwagnerianer Misconception? What is the main intention of Romanticism in your opinion?

[@Quotenwagnerianer]

@@kpunkt.klaviermusik Self-expression. And that can go in any direction. Compare Chopin and Schumann, and you'll find the negatives you described more in the former than the latter. To the point of being overtly programatic. As opposed to classicism where you would try to hide your inspiration and write music that can be understood just as music, romanticsim sought to find a musical language that was more personal and gives away its inspiration sometimes by citing poetry, or paintings or stories that inspired it.

[@kpunkt.klaviermusik]

@@Quotenwagnerianer Of course there are differences between each composer. When you talk about Self-expression, the first name which comes to my mind is Liszt. And Scriabin. From the Lieder we know, what the topics of the romantic composers (Schubert, Schumann, Brahms) were. I would not say, these topics are negative, they are just the problems most people can identify with.

[@G.Saint-Star]

I agree. And besides, unless you’re speaking in terms of art era, Chopin romantic compared to Bach hard time structure, no rubato etc… all composers have particular music that can be consider romantic. And I’m not talking about candle lit dinner with some Kenny G in the background. Romantic in the sense of expression of the soul in its entirety, no shackles no structures. Just pure emotion. But what ever. It’s all bullshit. All this guy can do is give his opinion and that’s all it is. His opinion, not the truth of life. That’s second piano sonata he was playing; the second movement… you can cry to that shit if your girl left you. I would. That movement is super tender. Straight from the heart. For all you know Rachmaninoff was thinking of an ex girlfriend when he wrote that. Who knows.

[@benancona3242]

I found this incredibly fascinating. It just shows how playing a piece "out of time" can capture a completely different vibe

[@danielnatzke6733]

What it captures is you & me, more than a "vibe".

[@markdecker2112]

I love his perspective on the importance of music - it is not something to fill the time because you have nothing else to do.

[@michelepadovano675]

Eccellente e meraviglioso! Furgoni sarebbe felice di te. Di strada ne hai fatta tanta! Complimenti e saluti.

[@timflatus]

Absolutely! His melodies are already beautiful, there is no need to over-egg the pudding. If we are to hang a genre on Rachmaninoff's work he was a very early Emotional Goth rather than a Late Romantic

[@ConservativeAnthem]

LOL...nice metaphor

[@3210vca]

Touche. Plus 10points. Game over. @timflatus. winner by knockout...Lol!!!

[@zamyrabyrd]

The problem with the word "romantic" in English is its wide range of connotations. When speaking about the Romantic period or era in music, the usual accepted understanding is feelings and intuition replacing reason and logic of the Classical era, reflected also in its social order. Strict hierarchies are in flux, the rise of the bourgeoisie (this is important), mystery, nocturnal fantasies, Gothic novels, etc. The popular watered down version of romantic has to do with love, but also quite diffuse. I do appreciate Mr. Bidini's going deeper into the actual sadness of Rachmaninoff's 3rd concerto rather than a superficial rendering of the melodic 2nd subject of the 1st movement.

[@michaeledwards1172]

I don't know what I'm missing, but I honestly didn't really know what this was about. And, as for whether Rachmaninov is a romantic composer, this seemed to be arguing that he was not, but it was not in the leastl convincing to me, and never really gave good reasons why he was not a romantic composer. I think he was, by any reasonable definition, and there was nothing here to shake that opinion of mine. If anyone can explain this in a way I can understand, I would be interested.

[@DrQuizzler]

I hear wistful longing in the "happy" themes of Rachmaninoff and for that matter Tchaikovsky. There's also a bit of bluesy use of circle of fifths chord change language in Rachmaninoff's choices. I agree with the guy here who said "romantic" music isn't just about light-hearted music for date night, but for expressing the whole range of human emotions including joy, sadness, anguish and despair.

[@RolandHuettmann]

What did I hear? I was reminded of some Jazz harmonies in the "blue" -- upcoming at the time. Actually, I can see Rachmaninov's house on the other side of the lake where I live and be reminded of his genius each day. He was searching for a new tonal world to express life, depressed, or joyful, or questioning. What touches my heart when visiting a concert is not just the composer's work but the musician's honesty, humbleness, dedication and skill, another layer to bring a composers work to life, an art by itself.

[@peaceandlove544]

Extraordinary pianist and analysis and Rachmaninoff well all of it together

[@emilypaige2885]

I want to be like him. I admire his approach to music.

[@classicalmusiclover4029]

I think so too. I like him.

[@francescodorello4795]

Io mi ricordo di Fabio tredicenni ai corsi di Sargiano. Ho suonato con lui il Duo op.37 di Carulli per chitarra e pianoforte. Spero si ricordi di me. Francesco Dorello. Era ed è bravissimo 👏👏👏

[@WalyB01]

Hmmmm great lecture about Rachmaninoff, but I have to disagree on the definition of Romanticism. It is the expression of feeling Werldsmertz. Its so clear in a lot of his work, which he accentenly explains afterwards. Makes me think back in the day my language teacher during history asked. What is Romanticism and some answered. "Dinner with roses"

[@davidfoust9767]

Seems like an issue of misunderstanding a word on his part.

[@itsjudystube7439]

Music is spiritual food. Sometimes when I have played something I play it again in accordance with the emotion I have developed in the first playing. Rachmaninov gives me pain, hope, yearning, anguish, release. Brahms is hard for me because I feel deep deep blackness and depression, darkness even in the happier seeming works. Schumann is the same. Prokofiev clears my head by releasing rage and frustration. Back to Rachmaninov and I feel turmoil. These are not my own emotions. These are the emotions I believe are carried in the music. Rarely, I show others this doorway, informally and in a safe place. Performing in a way that lets me bring out the emotional sense in the music, often offends people who only want to pick me up on wrong notes or missing staccato. I cannot be rigid when playing for the sake of the emotional message.

[@JGS2024]

What he says on Rach s music , not playing it in a romantic sappy way, makes perfect sense.

[@laurenth7187]

The interesting question would be, what is romanticism ... ? The writer J. Gracq used "eternal romanticism", so yes it's an aesthetic moment, in art and music, difficult to define : After baroque, 19th century... and it's more.

[@abeeltenista]

Only sadness can be as intense feeling as love :')

[@ownificationify]

I'm not sure he knows what romanticism is with respect

[@grassgrees6728]

thank u for thisss

[@jeppgd5183]

When has pain not been a part of romanticism. It’s literally oke of the most important aspects. Don’t tell me tchaikovsky symphony 6 isn’t romantic just because it shows deep pain. Romanticism is about the nature of the man/woman and all their emotions. Rachmaninoff may be very late romantic and use many unusual chromatic harmonies, but that’s what makes him a genius, finding completely new ways of showing the human nature and their emotions.

[@chmp7285]

Thank you for uploading.

[@soozb15]

I get him, I think. When an audience hears Rach 2 played in a sentimental/indulgent/slushy way like he demonstrated at the start, they would call it 'romantic'. Personally I can't bear it when pianists over-indulge in this way with Rachmaninoff's music. There is enough emotion in it, as is... so no need to 'emote' 🙂

[@davidsalazar2466]

3:28 Yes!!!

[@realsuperia]

I just love this!

[@emilyhartman8255]

Italians always know what’s up.

[@Lemrabish]

Thanks - perfect reading of Rachmaninov. Agree wholeheartedly

[@LeRainbow]

I’m not even good at playing the piano but when people say “that isn’t how X-Composer is supposed to be played” I immediately ignore them. Why are you forbiding and inhibiting people’s own imagination - instead forcing them to see “the true way” to play a piece. So much arguing about taste - about a subjective thing that will never be objectively correct because your realtive base foundation is set to your “true” standard.

[@rothschildianum]

Good interview!

[@rontomkins6727]

I don't understand what his argument is: Is he saying Rachmaninoff is not romantic because he expresses deep pain and grief in his music? Then by definition, Beethoven, Schumman, Chopin etc are not romantic composers either.

[@johnjohnson5961]

Exactly

[@musicclasical]

I think he has a different understanding in the meaning of romanticism.

[@kozokinartoh4203]

@@musicclasical yes I think so

[@Wibgloria]

I think he’s basically just saying don’t neglect the finer details in Rachmaninov that express extreme doubt and sadness that you get far less of (in the extreme sense) than other composers by playing it in a superficial romantic style. But he could have explained it a lot better I agree.

[@yerahmlee730]

Wait what was the first piece from???

[@corouniud7592]

Just my two cents :-) ... First a question: Music is polysemantic, or not? In the first case the problem of investigating THE meaning of any piece drops, since we can assume any piece has a variety of possible meanings (hence interpretations). In the second case we cannot suppose that ANY composer for ANY of their compositions has clear intentions about what it could mean. For instance, it is pretty clear that in Bach there was a stratification of different destinations for the same fragments of his compositions, and the puzzled cannot be solved. Other interesting points: there some pianists, such as Maurizio Pollini, that strongly believe that the interpreter's task is to single out the real intensions of the composers. Other pianists, such as Ivo Pogorelich, consider the interpretation as a bidirectional process, a sort of relation between the composer, their scores, and the interpreter (maybe we could add the audience too), which justifies a variety of different approaches to compositions. I have written this because there are unwritten premises behind Fabio Bidini's demonstration, but we could go back and argue on these premises as well. The overall theme is very interesting.

[@papagen00]

If by romantic he means schmaltzy, then neither Chopin nor Rachmaninoff is romantic. But if we go by Goethe's notion of romanticism of man vs. nature, then I think Bach is probably the most romantic of all composers.

[@nunyabusiness8538]

i think he meant a lot of people don’t bring out the pain in rachmaninoffs music, they play it in the wrong state of mind

[@Wibgloria]

@@nunyabusiness8538 yeah precisely. He could have explained that a little better actually but his point is very important. A lot of players interpret Rachmaninov ‘the romantic way’ and in turn it becomes an almost ‘style’ and subsequently neglects many of the finer details that for example expresses an extreme sense of doubt and sadness.

[@wrAIth-AI]

Schmaltzy? Like Burt Bacharach?

[@williampachev4944]

Haaaaiiil nah Bach is not romantic one bit

[@rinforzato]

I'd go that far to say that romanticism is the humanist emancipation of man vs god. So, yes - Bach is one of the first great romantic heroes in music history. Rachmaninoff might then be one of the last, moaning at the grave.

[@Van_Liberty]

If stranded on an island, well, guess which composer would be my choice...Bob Marley, mon'....lol. No, it would be SR...

[@CelesteJohnson-ob7nc]

I think he had nothing to say and just spewed nonsense to fill up the time. He must think everyone listening is stupid. It’s offensive.

[@HeartofthePiano]

Not Romantic?! What is he talking about?! 😮 Does he mean 'romantic' with lower case 'r' which nobody means when they talk about Rachmaninov?

[@fink7968]

He says this because Rachmaninoff wasn't a Romantic composer. He took heavy inspiration from the tradition of the Tchaikovsky (an actual Romantic composer). But was also aware of the music of Wagner, Late Liszt, late Scriabin etc at different points in his career. His approach to harmony and construction is not a purely romantic one so it is ignorant to interpret his music in a purely romantic sense, playing with the same rubato one might use for a Brahms intermezzo or a Chopin Nocturne.

[@CelesteJohnson-ob7nc]

I wonder why he got fired from Aspen.

[@hcab8118]

Fascinating…!

[@paulcapaccio9905]

What is he talking about ???????

[@music-by1ou]

Rachmaninoff

[@andrewcarnegie589]

..."some kind of longing", Fabio ? ( @ 2:12 ) ...# 2 not quite "romantic" enough for you ? Perhaps more like this ? - kzbin.info/www/bejne/bmLToox3gZqrqck

[@memopea]

:-) ;-)

[@CelesteJohnson-ob7nc]

Ah, so lofty. Not. For such a great pianist, his knowledge seems shallow and very clichéd.

[@marcoesquandolez]

What is that guy talking about?

[@peterkrauss6962]

Romantic

[@ВСЕЛЕННАЯ-н4ж]

Rakhmaninov Russian legend Russian music 🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺🎶🎵

[@megabugginout]

Expressionistic perhaps?

[@davidirimescu3055]

Yes, Rachmaninov is not dating music agreed 😂 maybe also Chopin's, anyhow? I like the intention to look at composer's psychology though

[@peterectasy2957]

i disagree. sometimes we want to go concert just because we have free time

[@EcceHumanitatis]

Moh.

[@LC-bb6kn]

Short socks...

[@mikim5020]

Ew

[@bradleykolkman7883]

“ Doesn’t matter, right or wrong… what matters is I got something out of it.” Kind sir, does Right and wrong really not matter? Are you saying that all the oppressed, abused, murdered, lied to and rejected people, suffering hunger, pain, heartache, awful injustices and cruel torments should be silent? Does not justice for them matter? Does not what is Right and Good play a fundamental role in their liberation and freedom? This attitude of selfishness, is weak, courage less and cowardly. There is nothing godlike about a selfish, sensual man. This mind set is a doctrine of the devil. I invite you to repent, turn to the lamb and be saved… I know this may not be what you want to hear. But I’m here to tell you the truth that will set you free. Seek God my friend.

[@scintilical9442]

Are you mentally deficient, this is about music, not about terrible human suffering. He’s saying that peoples interpretations whether “right or wrong” don’t matter, it’s more the emotion that they convey that is important. If you truly think that this comment was actually worth leaving then you need to repent a little and learn when to hold your tongue in regard to things like this. Incredibly immature of you to take the words of this man trying to teach and turn them into such horrible words, you must go seek whatever god you believe and sort yourself out.

[@f52_yeevy]

Was it really that difficult to understand that he was talking specifically about musical expression? Why did you have to decontextualise his sentence? He was just saying that he doesn’t really care wether is view of the emotions expressed by Rachmaninoff is right or wrong, but just wether he can honestly feel them.

[@scintilical9442]

@@f52_yeevy exactly, idk what this guy is trying to do

[@firephilosopher7645]

Lol

[@Giulio284]

I hate Rach

[@ministryofdressing]

The man in dark blue is really annoying and sound fake when « approving » what Fabio is telling. He doesn’t understand and wants to show he does. He should just let the pianist speak and not cut him.

[@StevenPJames-fl1un]

Mhmm, mhmm

[@Em-gp1yb]

@Obtuse Recluse the average man? You're not special.

[@Em-gp1yb]

@Obtuse Recluse I can know for sure. Everyone is above average in one field and below average in another. Even if you may be above average in terms of IQ you're clearly below average in terms of humility, social skills, self confidence and empathy. You're clearly not smart enough to realise how stupid you are nor are you self conscious enough to realise how ignorant you are. Again you're nothing special, if the likes of Horowitz consider themselves nothing special then you're definitely not. Being special is completely subjective and based on a person's view, you can't objectively measure it even with something like IQ. Anyone that considers them special is just blinded by ignorance and pride.

[@hsfpiano1989]

the man in dark blue is his pupil... I mean, nobody wants to show its own stupidity...

[@HelloSpyMyLie]

@Argerich's almighty squeak sounds judgemental of a young man with passion. Do you hate Americans ?