FACT Open House 2012 - Poleaxe in Armour

[@montyeyesclosed]

At 2:57, he parries, pretends to stab at him and then morphs that attack into an overhead swing right onto his cranium. Now that is skill.

[@batanggalinggubat6254]

Im having Mordhau flashbacks

[@icypeek]

@@batanggalinggubat6254 same here hahahahaha

[@hidden658]

That was absolutely beautiful

[@Buran01]

The left fighter is using in 2:58 a double hand grip very close to the begining of the shaft, with both hands in the first 25% of the wood, whereas the rigth fighter retains the wider grip (2:59) which both were using most of the fight and lets you to fastly swap the side at which the head of the poleaxe is placed (left, rigth, forward, back...). When at 3:00 the strike is deflected both hands from the left fighter are still at the end of the shaft wich makes the recovery of the guard slower and weaker (meanwhile the rigth fighter still has a rear + mid grip which gives way faster maneuvering). This lets the right fighter to fastly deflect the weak counter attack of the left fighter, opening entirely his guard; at the same he rotates the poleaxe bacwards in circular motion and the pivoltal right handed grip is now slided at warp speed towards the rear of the shaft so both hands add momentum at the tip of the lever, ending in a strike which produces max power (force x speed) and also benefits from gravity since is a vertical descending hit and has the oportunity to load his own weigth in the attack. Short lesson: for poleaxes, which are weapons with medium size but large handles a wider grip placement allows fast swapping which opens great opportunities to block, reflect and counter attack in ways and speeds that weapons with larger shafts or large blades wielded by the rear are unable to reach.

[@zacharybrown7354]

100% agree. That was a pro move. If done with the intention to kill him, using a real poleaxe, a blow like that (even with the basinet), would have likely knocked the man unconscious long enough to get him on the ground and out of the battle.

[@christopherknorr2895]

The medieval combat enthusiast in me loves the fighting, the tradesman in me is terrified by the state of the ceiling grid

[@matthewbrundle3495]

That's funny! we shared that space with an Aerial Performing troupe. Some panels were removed to afix equipment to metal roof framing.

[@cygil1]

While the armour itself is proof even against a pollaxe strike, all that energy must go somewhere. The shockwave of a solid hit would transfer to the person inside. It can break someone's neck or cause a concussion, dislocate ribs, break limbs, spines, or cause severe internal bleeding. I think he's a little pessimistic about the effect of those weapons. If they didn't work they would have simply made their weapons heavier and heavier until they did. Sledgehammers might not be very wieldly, but if it's the only thing that works, they would have used them.

[@yoomeanie]

If you look at armored combat league, you'll notice people just hit each other as hard as they can with their various weapons. Not necessarily the most effective, unless they take a big-ass battleaxe to the head. You'll also notice that most people don't get taken down by a single shot to the body, or even the head. Most of the time, weapons such as the polaxe were meant to be used by skilled knights, while the billhook & spear usually reserved for the peasants, because they were easier to use. Around 2:35, you can see the poleaxe of the man with the hounskull around the back of the neck of his opponent. If he had pulled hard enough, the other man would have been on the ground. It takes a tremendous amount of skill to use one of these weapons efficiently, but when done right, they can be much more deadly then using them as a glorified club.

[@OrkarIsberEstar]

thethingamajiggy gotta support cygil - plate armor is hard to penetrate but its possible even if the guy is not on the ground. weapons with a punch like maces were just made to hurt the guy inside the armor - whle the armor itself will stay more or less intact besides some minor damage, the guy inside can suffer multiple injuries and internal damage from the shockwave. Also if the helm is not fixed to your armor a shot to the head may simply break your neck or drop you unconscious. Finally the axe part - axes do sort of well against plate armor - a strong strike can even go through plate armor but the strike will very likely drop you to the ground if it hits even if the armor wont take any damage

[@Robert399]

They make a good point though in the vid, you see heaps of demonstrations of people denting or even cracking breastplates with big swings from weapons like this. This ignores the obvious fact that moving and even staggering away from a blow all reduce the force actually absorbed by the person's body.

[@Yusuf1187]

You can't just keep making weapons "heavier and heavier" because the armor is so strong in later periods that the weapons would have to be so heavy you couldn't wield them in an effective way - it's more effective to use the weapons like a poleaxe and retain speed and get the enemy onto the ground then finish them off there. I think you're underestimating the *armor* and why combat worked this way. Like the guy said, you want to get them on the ground and THEN you can kill them because they are braced against the ground and you have clean shots with the point so you have your pick of target on their body and all force is transferred to them instead of absorbed. You need that full combination of factors in order to kill a fully armored knight.

[@datguy8805]

cygil1 every martial art has grappling techniques to deal with armor, this is also why the dagger was in use, it and half swording was used to slip between the slips.

[@buttered__toast_2899]

Several examples of knights being injured during friendly pollaxe duels. If that came crashing down on your head you're a vegetable

[@Alexander-tj5vr]

Like there ARE several examples or are you commenting about what happend in the video?

[@adindrecaj]

@@Alexander-tj5vr i think he means there's historical examples and references of friendly knights dueling with each other, but unintentionally injuring each other or one of them.

[@alfonsovallejo2665]

they might have used wood practice poleaxes.

[@pringles_mcgee]

except if you're doing a friendly duel you wouldn't be using lethal weaponry lmfao

[@scottdick296]

@@pringles_mcgee There's not really such a thing as a nonlethal polearm. If it's the right weight and the right length, it'll break bones even with a padded head. If it's not the right weight or length, it's not really a polearm, is it?

[@jane-wing]

Just learned more about medieval combat in this vid than most history classes ive taken. Love it!! Very nice presentation and skill.

[@Quonchon]

2:57 Badass

[@brittlespy9083]

lol yeah that was a really good move. would have caused some serious damage if those weren't replica weapons

[@gamechannel1271]

Those aren't replica weapons, they're practice versions of the poleaxe. Designed specifically not to harm. Replica weapons are shaped pretty much exactly to the real thing with maybe a dulled edge/point.

[@brittlespy9083]

yeah sorry thats what i meant

[@poiuytrewq11422]

+Game Channel Usually with cheaper materials as well.

[@Alexander-tj5vr]

TheEpongeMan cringe

[@lkvideos7181]

3:00 that hurt af. was hit like that once wearing a helmet. Can cause serious injuries if you're unlucky.

[@cthulhu2357]

Nice pfp

[@noone6766]

It’s not a real polehammer.

[@lkvideos7181]

@@noone6766 Yes but you still want to avoid getting hit like that.

[@madman11893]

where did they get the simulator weapon heads

[@Yeomannn]

Fantastic presentation.

[@thoughtheglass]

NICE HEARING MATT EASTONS LAUGH IN THE BACKGROUND

[@BielG136]

2:18 Faints, opens enemy's guard, strike

[@montyeyesclosed]

His skill is insane right?! At 2:57 the fake out stab that was morphed into an overhead was too good.

[@SoulRipper66]

The physical shock you feel from a strike is similar to like getting punched while not wearing an armor, enough shocks can make you feel dizzy and stuff like that

[@randelldarky3920]

The Medieval Combat Competitions are brutal entertainment.

[@nemo5335]

one thing i noticed! this pig snouted helm is actually very good at dissipating impacts away from the head. you can see, the helm has plenty of dead space on top. so when he gets hit up there, the steel can dent and take the impact. its almost like a crumple zone in a car. medieval people were every bit as smart as us, they just weren't as good at passing knowledge down yet.

[@kriegjaeger]

Well spotted and said! People haven't really changed that much, sure we're more educated in certain fields but could your average person in the west for instance, make a candle? Make soap? Patch the holes in their clothing or identify edible forage from inedible forage? These would be fairly routine chores for people for thousands of years but all but lost within the last few hundred but for people in regions too poor not to simply be able to buy new things.

[@favkisnexerade]

If 2:57 hit was done with real poleaxe to some helm, with mail coif and padded coif underneath, would it at least knock out or something?

[@AEMMAchannel]

It would probably be very bad :)

[@favkisnexerade]

But what do you mean - very bad? Like, would person be out of fights for a few seconds at least? I remember being hit in the middle of torso and just fell to knees without feeling any pain and couldn't move for a few seconds, but also got hit in ear and that was very painful, what I'd call very bad, but I at least was able to move etc. So what kind of very bad?

[@AEMMAchannel]

@@favkisnexerade The concussive force could kill you; the weapon could stove in your helmet, possibly your skull too. It doesn't have to break the helm to cause you fatal or debilitating brain injury. Then again, it might not. It all depends on how much force actually gets transferred to the helm and on which spot; usually the combatants are moving, and most helms (especially in this time period) are made in such a way as to generate glancing blows from thing s like large swords and axes. Having said that of course, the danger of the axe is not only the concussive force, but also the spear tip on the top; if you concussed a knight to the ground, it would not be difficult to thrust the spear tip into a weak point in their armour. So when I say very bad; let me put it this way. One of the provosts of our school was struck blind by a hit to the head from a pole-axe. Blind. For several minutes. The risk of significant injury (when used at full speed) is so great that even we (we train hard to learn how to use these things) are reticent to fight hard with the simulators we have....much less fight hard with axes with steel heads. Its a dangerous weapon. And also, freakin cool :)

[@favkisnexerade]

Thank you very much for the info.

[@hermitcard4494]

@@favkisnexerade Damn, several minutes blind, that's a death sentence in combat and an effect we would never had imagined.

[@kyleman605]

The bec de corbin and poleaxe are used the same way and have the same effect on the enemy, so stopping saying "where are the poleaxes?" The bec de corbin in this video is made by arms and armor, I have one and it's lovely.

[@Alexander-tj5vr]

Kyle Edwards Looks like a beast, how much did it cost you?

[@phantomwizard]

hell yeah. way to carry on the tradition lads

[@ottofrinta7115]

Wow what a display of skill!

[@lazy1451]

Such awesome... Much medieval... Wow...

[@Enrico_Palazzo_opera_singer]

"It´s ok! They are wearing protective medieval armor!" ..."But they are using weapons designed to crack medieval armor!" ...Valar morghulis!

[@2h4d0wDK]

Marcus Mfinanga If you could get in range enough to make him fall or to grapple, good luck. Knights were nobles, they have trained in the weapons they use and if you just try to go grapple him, you would certainly be killed. Even if you were a knight yourself. Warhammers and Maces were some of the anti armor weapons, denting and breaking internal stuff under the armor.

[@shazerthwaits3329]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you. Regardless of nobility or skill, grappling an armored target is one of the best things you can do. Once you've demobilized them it becomes easy to stab between pieces of armor at unarmored parts of the opponent, which is one of the few ways to kill a man in full metal plates. Being noble, high and mighty knights doesn't make them impervious to knives piercing their vital organs, a man is a man.

[@2h4d0wDK]

***** Well, try to grapple a man with a poleaxe, if you can get into range

[@MegaSweeney123]

***** alternatively, beat him around the head until you get a knockout, and ransom him when the battle's done.

[@MegaSweeney123]

mylittlepuke 101​​ you need money to be a knight, you have to, for example, house and pay your squire, arming squire (not always the same person), your men, those in charge of your portion of the baggage train, not to mention some kings put a tax on that title. Ransom, like knighthood, requires MONEY. Not nobility. Besides, a made man like the knight you envisioned's name would be as known as any noble, especially if it were a battle within the one kingdom or country (again, depending on the period, not always the same thing). If you could afford a plate harness, which cost approximately the equivalent of an expensive house or high end sports car today, you could make the assumption he had the cash to be ransomed. If not, ransom him back to his king - surely his king, if he could afford it, would want his best assets back. If not, make him swear an oath of fealty to you in exchange for his freedom. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that while knights ≠ nobility, that they were just a rank you could achieve, and CERTAINLY don't think the post-victorian title reflects anything on its historical counterpart haha

[@L.J.Kommer]

+mylittlepuke 101 Any man who was knighted could be a knight.

[@mate5875]

2:03 the best part for me, alot of hits there

[@MegaSweeney123]

They're using polaxes, people. It's not an intuitive term, but those are polaxes. IIRC, they started with an axe-like blade, but as armour became more effective and more common (you didn't have to be a knight to own armour), the switch to a more effective head was made. Bic due Corbin is one of the French names for the same tool. As for pole-hammer, I think that's a modern term, like heater shield (named in the Victorian era due to the resemblance to irons), and war hammers are a one-handed implement about the same length as a mace. Incidentally, the reason for the prongs on the striking surface is similar to flanged/spiked maces - it achieves a better grip against the polished smooth and rounded surface of, say, a helmet or knee-cop (no, not kneecap) for better force transference. That's not to say it can't grip mail, and you shouldn't take advantage if/when it does.

[@AEMMAchannel]

Thanks for your comments everyone! Please subscribe and check out our new and improved youtube channel!

[@xierstel5297]

Where at?

[@AEMMAchannel]

Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

[@riproar11]

The knight in black's hit to the red knight's helmet hit with the wooded front end of the weapon. This looked carefully done to avoid the metal head from causing possible concussive injury or temporary impairment.

[@riproar11]

Building owner: "Why are there four new dents in my nice wood floor?"

[@joshhollinshead2190]

Okay gentleman on the count of three fuck shit up

[@joshhollinshead2190]

also that looked like it bloody hurt taking a shot to the face these lads have some balls

[@batchestheeverskink293]

+Josh Hollinshead You feel it, sure, but unless the helmet doesn't fit your head, it will only rattle you. Plate is damn good stuff, and it's the reason people stopped using shields. :)

[@thecritic69420]

Sadly these are illegal in HBM and ICMF even though they are so awesome but they are just too effective.

[@JeremyDECRAS]

Hi, what is this demo context?

[@AEMMAchannel]

Our annual Open House at the Fighting Arts Collective in Toronto.

[@scarletcript4148]

2:58 that was nice

[@kittyman187]

Hey AEMMA, I was wondering who makes the armor shown in your videos?

[@squirrelonmapletree]

How heavy are those weapons I wonder.

[@_j.v.st._7367]

+Priest105 quite light! just top heavy

[@GiskardRevenlov]

Not very

[@Buran01]

Real onnes less than 3 Kg, usually 1.5 to 2.5 Kg.

[@matthewbrundle3495]

Sorry for the late reply! Those simulators weigh it at about 1600g. Typical for period but the resin heads make them safe to use.

[@rhaxotur4358]

Does anyone know where to get a Houndskull Helmet like the one shown in this video? I can only find ones that have two eye slits.

[@piecho99]

I know this comment is 4 years old but kult of athena is a good place www.kultofathena.com/helmets-medieval.asp

[@johnsmithy315]

@@piecho99 You’re a good person for the link regardless of time

[@tannerthepanman9202]

Contact an a local armorer and see what theyll do

[@matthewbrundle3495]

Sorry for the very, very late reply. That helm was made by Best Armour in the Czech Republic

[@CorpseStarchEnjoyer]

Is it effective to bash the opponent's head with the middle handle?

[@Buran01]

Yes.

[@MrCarloArellano]

where do you get the simulators?

[@ched2marcus]

I apologize if this may sound naive but I don't understand if the armor could resist poleaxe and sword strikes wouldn't be better to dispense with them all together and simply wrestle an armored opponent to the ground and put a rondel (dagger) through his visor. What a

[@gavinjenkins899]

There are several points in the fight where one of them has a killing or disabling position set up, with a spike aimed right at a weak spot or hookable location, etc. and the fighters just pause and walk away from each other and start again. It's basically like "Oh you got me, point!" whereas in an actual fight to the death, those would be exploited and their armor ripped apart or thrown to the ground or whatever. Maybe not conclusive, but the fight would certainly "go somewhere" at least more than this. But they don't want to hurt each other or ruin their armor, so once it's a compromising position, you just start over.

[@ada6201]

Que guapo.

[@rarescenes9999]

Are these poleaxes?

[@saamkapadia]

a variation called pole hammers

[@epires4515]

Ehm ehm... pole hammer?

[@micohazakin8576]

Pole hammer is just a modern term while poleaxe is the original term

[@sojjjer]

Actually pollaxe refers to the weapon which, while usually having an axe blade on it, wasn’t always there.

[@crazylegoman]

Bec de corbin really

[@Kuhmuhnistische_Partei]

They use a lot of very open, wide and predictable swings which would often probably not even hit the enemy. Are those distractions or are they supposed to provoke a reaction or something?

[@count_dcinamon]

they do it for the show. i mean this is a presentation after all, not a match

[@omkarp472]

Badass

[@guidoferri8683]

They should have put something to protect the wooden floor

[@shazerthwaits3329]

What's up with them using war hammers? Pole axes and war hammers/pole hammers are two separate weapons

[@MegaSweeney123]

No, not really.

[@gaiusjuliuspleaser]

Pollaxe was a somewhat broad term. Basically any polearm with a relatively small head was considered a pollaxe. A polehammer or bec-de-corbin would qualify as a pollaxe, but a halberd or bardiche (with their comparatively larger heads) would not.

[@typorad]

9/10 Would recommend more grappling next time.

[@Gloin79]

harder to do with longer and more powerfull weapons

[@typorad]

Longer objects are naturally easier to grab. What does more powerful weapon even mean? Besides that, most poleaxes have got hook like design on the head so you can snag your opponent or his weapon, you can also use your hands to grip to grip your enemy's handle or grab him and toss him around. These guys just took turns swinging at each other. Also poleaxes typically have a spear end on the bottom end of the pollaxe, which the ones in the video clearly lack. While I'm sure not every fight is going to end with people wrestling, these guys were analogous to boxers, only with poleaxes. If UFC tells us anything about combat, it is that, a combination of wrestling and boxing wins. HEMA doctrines also portray lots of wrestling, so the grandmaster fighters surely used plenty of it.

[@Gloin79]

i was comparing it to armoured longsword fighting (for some reason I thought you were) What I mean is that it's harder to close distance since strikes are more damaging than say longsword strikes (where there's practically only wrestling) A full power strike to the head with a poleaxe will knock you out

[@kingmaker2865]

The medieval manuals show it was more a case of using the bottom end of the weapon... Not the top end... U would fence with the base of the staff... And only use the axe head to finish off or exploit a weakend opponent. It was similar to quarterstaff fighting.. . Not like the fighting shown in the video. The axe head it too heavy to weild efficiently as shown in the video.. Both fighters are slow and easily blocked. Hence the use if the shift light end to stun exploit only then delivering a heavy strike to finish off it wound.

[@lkvideos7181]

Nope that's false. Some stance depictions may come off that to make you think that ? but but they don't. Bottom has primarily a defensive purpose. Neither did these guys do much wrong. You work with your weapon's head as primary offensive mean and utilize bottom strikes only in certain moments for parry and counter. Otherwise you're taking a great risk and exposing your body to very easy counters using primarily the bottom. You only do to exploit your opponent's error and close in for a strike to the head / put him off-balance just so you can immediately follow up with the head. But you use the head for almost all offensive strikes. All the weapon's weight of impact and lethality lies in the head, which you'd otherwise reduce ineffective by using the bottom as primary mean, thus rendering the entire concept of a polearm completly pointless.

[@LongJ22]

*polehammers, not poleaxes

[@aaayu1]

That's dangerous...

[@brittlespy9083]

its actually not, they arent swinging with full force and plate armor is a lot stronger than youd think lol.

[@NCaradoc2008]

Interesting - wrestle an armoured man to the ground then use a knife? Well maybe, but then if you don't have a weapon and they do, that gives them a huge advantage - no punch or kick is going to put these guys down, you'd need to be close enough to grab whilst also avoiding their weapon. Even if you were fully armoured too, getting hit with a sword or pole-axe might not penetrate the armour, but it could knock you flat.

[@MisdirectedSasha]

The thing is, armour is heavy, and people tend to wear more of it on their torsos and heads than on their legs. This means that people in armour are quite top heavy, and thus a bit easier to throw. Also, wearing armour largely (though not entirely) negates an opponent's reach advantage, since they have to land very precise hits on you to get through it. With a dagger on one hand, you can easily grab your opponent's weapon and use it to pull him towards you, then throw him to the ground and stab him through his visor. Of course, pulling works both ways and he can easily do the same to you.

[@MegaSweeney123]

Actually, kicks are quite effective. Go for the knees/waist.

[@alexandrosgrivas4406]

+NCaradoc2008 armour isnt heavy at all and you arent going to get knocked out from a sword or poleaxe hit if the armor is made for you and its well padded too you wouldnt feel anything from a sword you would get damaged a bit by maces and a poleaxe would be a good weapon against armor of course

[@gavinjenkins899]

typical plate armor is 40 lbs, yes, it's very heavy. Sure, it's well distributed, and you can still move effectively just fine, but the physics of center of mass (which is what they're referring to) doesn't care about the distribution, other than top/bottom, and it doesn't care how many joints and articulations there are. It's just "more mass ratio higher up than before? Easier to topple, the end"

[@hollowgrand]

It's not grappling instead of using the poleaxe, it's using the poleaxe to grapple: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gpW5iopvp5d6abc

[@sdsdsdssdsdxdd]

Video is cool but what the fuck happened to their ceiling?

[@AEMMAchannel]

The Flying Arts Collective (who are a group of Aerialists and Circus Performers) train on our ceiling :)

[@Fjuron]

w8, but those are not poleaxes, those are pole hammers or bec de corbin.

[@AlexTheAverageKid]

those are Bec De Corbins, not Poleaxes.

[@kawkabbarralimara8237]

Remind me of mount and blade

[@shun2240]

thats a long warhammer or polehammer, not a poleaxe

[@AEMMAchannel]

It is a poleaxe in fact, I am afraid! It may look more like a hammer (and thus its name is a little counter-intuitive)...but it is the same weapon that medieval people called an poleaxe. Fiore dei Liberi himself just calls it "Azza" (axe), straight up.

[@MrElias2043]

It doesn't have a butt spike. And if it had one, they're not using it.

[@shun2240]

but there is clearly a hammerhead, and where is the axe head?

[@AEMMAchannel]

Poleaxe heads vary throughout history; but I have never seen an example of a poleaxe with an axe blade. Despite the fact that most people think of axes as weapons with blades (i.e. ones used for cutting wood), poleaxes where designed to transmit blunt force trauma and defeat armour.

[@saeyabor]

So I guess this thing is a halberd and not a pollaxe/poleaxe? www.ngw.nl/heraldrywiki/images/thumb/9/96/Alytusc.jpg/350px-Alytusc.jpg I thought the difference between a halberd and a poleaxe was that a halberd was a spear with an axe blade and backspike built in, while a poleaxe was an axe with a quarterstaff-like handle.

[@dt534]

Not enough cue action but good regardless

[@folks9021]

PoleHammer *****

[@mericagunsfreedomandlove.8985]

Daggers were the most deadly weapon, then the war hammer/poleaxe. One hit on the helm and you are not lucky you morf into a potato for the day and if you not lucky a vegetal for the rest of your life.

[@youareacoward8459]

Yep, so slow, look hollycrap?

[@vincentcalazans649]

these guys in armor don't know how to use a poleaxe

[@jackflanagan903]

They're polehammers but ok

[@augustprice7550]

Jack Flanagan As has been stated over and over again in the comments poleaxe refers to the same weapon with or without the axe blade on one side. Sometimes there’s an axe blade sometimes there isn’t. Pole hammer is a modern term.

[@icejfishwer560]

DEUS VAULT

[@philswiftreligioussect9619]

Those arent even poleaxes Poleaxes are supposed to have some form of axe blade