Faction Focus 2024 Disciples of Tzeentch

[@JHTheHurricane]

The content king keeps the train rolling. TY Rob!

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Love ya!!!

[@rynoburrow]

Great content fella, really enjoying your input on all this - your vids are getting me hyped for AoS4! I was a beasts player so kept hold of my Tzaangors and sold the rest and am building a Tzeentch army, been waiting for this vid to drop and it didnt dissapoint. Keep up the good work ❤

[@duanegerous3484]

Love your videos Mr Rob. You make the new season so much more palatable amd easy to understand. I've given up reading the articles and just wait for your videos. Can't wait for the core rules read through. Thanks for helping plebs like myself enjoy and understand AOS so much better.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Awh this means so much to me thanks!

[@cmleibenguth]

Wyrdflame is just Tzeentch version of Disease points from Nurgle A mini version anyway

[@chrish1645]

It does block recursion which could be interesting. Right now it looks like you can only get it going on 1 unit per turn which seems like the major limiting factor. Will it be good? who knows, but it at least feels like it could be interesting. That's been pretty lacking in the reveals so far (my opinion of course).

[@FlipityGibett]

All rules in AoS are the mini version

[@raphaelberney4812]

If I'm honest, I must say that I like how this whole 4th edition tastes: simple, streamlined, modular, fast, furious, spicy, and so narrative! My imagination jumps up and down thinking about how evocative all these +1 to add, all these dice to roll are, and how the stories that comes out of it are unique and stimulating.

[@Warforged117]

I'm loving these updates! Keep then coming Rob!

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

CANT STOP ME

[@Warforged117]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams Hell yeah!! I was excited about AOS4 before, but these videos have really stoked up my enthusiasm and am actually putting brush to model for the first time in a while to get some spearheads painted up!

[@capt.mannerings8095]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams but rob where is the CoS video. you cant skip CoS 🤣

[@LukeJohnson-uh6cs]

Its all doom and gloom and reddit. Good to hear positivity here.​@thehonestwargamerstreams

[@kalebwalters]

Holding My Breath! (No Summoning = No screens, Bad Split and Split again= No tar pit,) However, Karios = Tits Up! Need to see the whole picture and points.........

[@stevecatpatrick8056]

Also if Rob is right with no allies then there is no good replacement for chaos warriors with a 5 up ward.

[@MatthewEvans_TheHadMatter]

Wyrdflame is a cool ability, agree. Not likely to end up being very powerful or worth leaning into in a competitive sense though IMO. The Chaos Spawn passive rule is a joke, and completely losing access to summoning is a bigger deal for Tzeentch than it will be for any other summoning army. Turning enemy models into spawn was already a highly unreliable speedbump at best, having to pay points for it now means it will never happen anymore, which sucks. I'm no Kairos, but I see a Tzaangor meta in our future /shrug

[@josephhay5551]

Man I am looking forward to these videos every day. I stopped even reading the articles till after you go over it

[@tuned_tv]

Thanks for the work on these faction focuses, appreciate everything you do! I agree, this is the most exciting faction focus we have seen so far.

[@lordinquisitor838]

I think if there’s no other way to apply burning then the Wyrdflame mechanic won’t be great, especially against armies with easy recursion or healing

[@perkulant4629]

The Dot mechanic is really cool. Love it.

[@sirbobulous]

Disciples Of Tzeentch with a DOT mechanic!?

[@ce4879]

Cheetah Dots with cheetah(cheater) dice Tzeentch was a cat all along! The deception!

[@TheFonz270]

love the vids Rob, I was way down after reading this as a tzeentch player, although I'll admit it's early days. I like the burning but the pinks sound kinda useless and I have 30 of them with 60 blues and brims so that's a bit of a feels bad! Glad Kyros has a ward at least, him not having infernal gateway makes me hope there are more damage spells in the daemon lore. If pts allow for a bunch of cheap blues putting burning on people and summoning spawns into enemy units on their turn, could be some fun stuff regardless.

[@jtowensbyiii6018]

Useless how? They do almost the same thing they use to do, just might be limited on how many you can fit in a list now

[@Kylossus3E]

06:00 Doesn´t the abilty say that you can only burn one unit per turn ? Cause you said it like every unit that gets hurt would burn

[@mmr6849]

You can only apply burn to one unit per turn, but every unit with burned on it will burn every turn. So if you’re in turn 2 and apply burn to a second unit while still having burn on the first, both of those units will roll to take D3

[@Strade8]

And is turn not round, so you can apply burn by using either shoot or magic in the enemy turn. It still doesn't do much damage because they will heal one unit with rally at least..

[@barmesh]

I think warmaster means you can take an additional hero in a regiment. There was something mentioned about that in one of the first articles.

[@KateHolden]

That Mechanic of looking into the past or future to redo a battle tactic or do one you haven't drawn yet is such a fun, fluffy idea. I like how this army is designed around "cheating", but it's still (hopefully) balanced. It'll feel really satisfying if you manage to take down these cheaty demons! I'm excited to see DoK, because I'm just finishing up painting a Spearhead of them.

[@KateHolden]

@ands1983 yeah, I'm hoping it's balanced by each army having their own tricks for scoring, be it a high unit count, mobility, damage output to delete other units in an area of the board etc. I guess we'll see!

[@salv.6948]

my only worry is having to pay for units that will stay in reserve so that they can replace others, in the case with the Spawn, I either buy a spawn that I may never use or never take that spell more likely . Especially with armies getting smaller those points spent on a recursion unit are tough to swallow.

[@stevecatpatrick8056]

You always will have the spell because you don't choose spells you choose a lore and then all your wizards cast from that lore, and it only is three spells so we'll have lots of casts left over to just spam some crappy repeatable. Which I actually don't like seems to take away all the choices seems like it's going to be obvious to cast This at some chaff unit in your opponent's turn after you've moved within 12 in to get yourself a screen before they can move. However now you've opened yourself up to get blown out if it fails to go off and there's three points it could fail to go off: on the cast especially if you don't use a lord of change, being unbound, or only rolling a one and failing to kill a unit that has two wounds not giving you a screen. Actually make that four places it could fail because also the ward roll. And if any of those fail they blow you out by running your weak ass units over. I don't like the gamble I like putting the enemy into no win situations with a tricky plan the way tzeentch intended. I'm cautiously on the fence about how this is going to turn out. We will have to see

[@Kincoran]

I hope you're right about new flamer models; I'd love to see that!

[@thehonestaspy102]

Could you please make a tier list of what you think the indexes will be Rob and update it once a week maybe?

[@Elninyo99]

I feel like it has potential but I think what made the army playable was the summoning it was something the army heavily lend on with out it I feel like a lot of times you will get over run with little to no recourse especially with pinks getting such a big nerf. Still exited and even if they suck ill play them but i have mixed feelings about it. Bit sad the the Curslings ability only gose till your next turn and not till the opponaints next turn.

[@bobjones3579]

I think summoning turning to recursion is a good thing. So far the recursion is pretty tame. So maybe some of these units can get appropriately pointed. I do expect points to start high so you may have to wait for point drops for some units. So you can start with a proper sized army gor once.

[@stevecatpatrick8056]

​@@bobjones3579recursion is just not a good replacement unless you can summon directly into combat, and requires things to die first. The problem is not losing your whole backline before you can recur something to be your screen again. If they drop the summoning tax so that we can actually have a decent amount of units on the field then it could help, have a blob of 20 pinks and then multiple blobs of blues. Without summoning the summoning armies of chaos basically need a slight point reduction while every other army is getting a large point bump up. So that you can have More than five or six units on the board to start, All those units you used to be able to summon should fit in your 2K army at the start now

[@benbricio8407]

The deployment trick from the gaunt summoner only says friendly units ; could I put Archeon into deep strike 7” away?

[@cyanidedreamer]

as long as you are fine with losing archaon if someone manages to do five damage to your 6+ save gaunt summoner, you can 😂

[@reaver11122]

Take two Gaunts 😜​@@cyanidedreamer

[@Kijubei]

The burning mechanic is almost the same mechanic as poison in gloomhaven

[@DemandredTaim]

Don't like getting in and out of boats... Isn't that literally the same as moving a unit but with a massively less restrictive movement?

[@Kircholm]

Conflagration of Tzeentch can be used only once per turn on single enemy unit? That means that only one single unity might be "burned" per turn? And that only makes 2-3 dmg a turn? Is it even worth to consider? There are so many units with warpflame weapons/ spells and all of that is for single unit?

[@davidfortin6437]

Love this new Faction Focus. Finally the death of the chicken army. Super thematic, can't wait to get my Tzeentch back out.

[@Nekorook]

they do explain in the article that there is summoning but it's more return destroyed units than bring in whole new unit. Tzeentch has the ability to do this multiple times unlike other armies which can do it once.

[@cursling9]

You being hyped has got me hyped 💙 💜

[@robertbrook574]

Sounds really fun, and the promise of new models for demons is awesome

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

not true but lets just see :)

[@gealgain2420]

The "no summoning without cost" is interesting. Also, the pink horror is a bit of a mind game for the opponent. focus down the easier to kill blue horror (supposedly) or the harder to kill pink horror before I start killing the other. Going back to the "no summoning without cost" thing, I'm curious if there will be a sacrifice mechanic that characters can do so the controlling player can force blue horrors to be regenned.

[@stevecatpatrick8056]

Needs a way for the horror player to protect against ranged attacks. Right now there isn't one so it's really obvious you take out the blues first and then the other player is screwed. That's not fun and interactive if the controlling player doesn't have anything they can do to stop or mitigate that. Need some way to give pinks -1 to be hit from range or something like that

[@Unaidedfoot]

Sold mine and I’m likely buying back in.

[@MpdDatabase]

I can't wait, I am a tzeentch player and this great I think. Yes we lost summoning but I like the new game play

[@WalkingAid]

Tzeentch needs a range update, for the God of Change most units looks the same (Horrors) still my favourite Chaos God though

[@mangohub3252]

They need to upscale and bring back the old ones

[@birkhoms]

I am a little concerned that we will have a 10ed Eldar awakening with Tzeentch here. We will see and I hope if it is broken it will be fixed in a timely manner.

[@ndpizzle]

Great video!

[@hectortoledo8938]

Losing summoning does make me sad, ill await until we get the points and the whole index, but unfortunately this doesn't really make it for me

[@benthomas5108]

I imagine Kruleboyz will get a special weapon trait for their venomous attacks. Also, 12:02 , the paragraph explains there will be no summoning in the new edition, just resurrection.

[@capt.mannerings8095]

So basically I have to fix my badly painted tzeentch and get them finished up. Feeling quite hopeful for burning things and really like the dot and debuff idea.

[@darkjester53]

I only have Tzaangors and enlightened on discs ( a lot) from BoC. I'm not going to play the BoC index anymore and been selling off the models to TOW players. But I really hope the tzaangors have play in the new index, and preferably a full tzaangor army, maybe add a kairos.

[@Mensch777]

Very happy about summoning being gone (at least for daemons). While it reads super flavorful and also kinda plays flavorful it demanded so many extra models and since your normal units got a points increase to somewhat balance the "free" units one got punished hard for not using that mechanic. A bit sadge about Pink Horrors needing a weakend Blue Horror unit nearby for splitting

[@stevecatpatrick8056]

Yeah I really don't like the splitting either because it's putting it in your opponents locus of control to make the right decision that screws you. That's not at all what I want to be doing I want to be maneuvering them into a no win scenario like slaanesh and their temptation points. You need your blues to be both hurt but not dead. Imo it would be much better if you could split them and put more than the original amount of blues on the field. Or at least just make it visible so that don't need to be within 12. Now it just feels clunky because one unit needs to be next to the other one and you need your opponent to kill your unit in the order you want them killed in in order to get value out of them. And again I don't want my opponent to be the one who can make the decision where I don't get any value.

[@Strade8]

​​@@stevecatpatrick8056send blu in combat screening pink, retreat brimstone before the all unit is dead, send pink in. Replenish blu to brimstone. Depending on how lethal the other army is ( aos 4 seems not that one shot till now) this game can be doable. Its a bit a pain to have to combo 2 unit for it and if can't screen right the pink are going to die before the blue.

[@stevecatpatrick8056]

@@Strade8 That's a good idea I guess if not super clunky to have to do mechanically and fit all those on the board with the ranged units behind it actually doing the damage. It works if the cost of the pinks Plus the cost of the blues is the 260 or so that the squad of pinks alone used to be. Then it would be a decent change as we would get more board presence. Also probably you would run a ratio of two blues to one pink? With pinks as the back line? And you could spells to generate spawn where the line is failing? Could be fun if the points are lowered to reflect it so that we can have more of a screening line of protection. Plus we will need that second line so there's no room for something powering through to fit their base in and tag our flamers in combat.

[@paulcable2538]

Mastery of magic…could I use two Destiny Dice, let’s say a 4 and a 1 from my Destiny dice, and match the 1 to the 4, giving me 8 to get the Arcane Suggestion spell off?

[@cyanidedreamer]

no because it says under destiny dice that they cannot be modified/changed or replaced in any way, it will always be exactly what you pick up as your destiny dice that is the result. (except for negative effects from the enemy)

[@traiantulbure3819]

I agree that’s it has been the best preview so far. Regardless of power level it’s nice to see some new thematic rules and not just the same but nerfed.

[@Grayfox251]

So they gave them the elders fate dice but properly worded/ruled? (Sorry new to aos and excited to see seraphon rules)

[@Onk3lM0]

No Tzeentch has had this before too.

[@Grayfox251]

@Onk3lM0 ah ok so just a better written fate dice overall. Is that normal for aos compared to 40k?

[@escapo6895]

@@Grayfox251 It didn't start this tight. Destiny Dice have been part of Tzeentch since their 1st edition book, but they originally could be applied to all kinds of things that had the potential to break the game. They're written better now because this the 4th time the rule has been rewritten.

[@Grayfox251]

@@escapo6895ok cool hopefully the 40K team can learn from this when the eldar codex comes and have it written pretty much like this (or at least have the unmodified dice part, which would’ve fixed a lot of issues with eldar). That is of course assuming the writer(s) are the ork and not the custodies/admech writer(s). If I may ask how was the seraphon book in 3rd?

[@stevecatpatrick8056]

​@@escapo6895I don't think they are written better I think they're written worse than they are in third. Now there's no use for low dice because battle shock is gone. I think there needs to be more built-in ways that don't cost our spell slots to re-roll and change out destiny dice. Personally I would love if you could on one's apply them to the enemy's saves, Make one's feel as strong as sixes. Right now I don't like the idea that if you choose the lore of change and then you roll your dice and you get shitty rolls you were just screwed for the whole game and you might as well not have an army rule, especially if it happens when you are facing an army that doesn't rely heavily on recursion of slain models? On that front I do hope that if a unit dies with burning on it you aren't able to recur the whole unit back. Or else it's not going to be very useful when the whole unit dies and then burning doesn't do the thing it's supposed to do which is prevent units from coming back.

[@redyns99]

Great Content!

[@stevecatpatrick8056]

With the removal of battle shock there doesn't seem to be a good use for low rolls on the destiny dice. I don't love that, does that mean you're stuck basically spending your spells just to make your destiny dies better? I also don't love the idea of your first roll of the game basically potentially screwing you because you don't have any decent numbers. It seems pretty weak to me overall but also a number of factions I guess the people that play them feel like they are weak. My biggest issue with them is that it's going to make me buy a ton more models, and not because I'm excited because like a third of my army is STD So if they get rid of allies or make the army not work well with allies anymore That's like what we used as our front line and in place of not having good troops.

[@johnymiller7245]

I dont know why I have Wind of change by Scorpions turning around in my hears since I've started to listent to you ? Since you started on twitch I must confess!

[@chrish1645]

WHERES THE OGOR VIDEO RON??????

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

ITS TOMORROW BABE

[@reaver11122]

Burning is going to hurt OBR, assuming they still have the amount of healing as AOS3

[@khromas5392]

I like the idea of no free summoning points. It felt kind of broken at times having to kill the slightly worsening unit three times over.

[@GhostGuitars]

yeah it does seem a bit unfair if you can chuck an extra 1000pts on the table

[@przemysawkoosinski9694]

All those news are as predicted according to plan

[@Kurze0]

This one definitely looks interesting, but the summoning discussion and yesterday, removing KO embarking on boats (which is one of the reasons I play KO) makes me worried they are stripping a lot of flavour from the game for the sake of simplifying

[@KP-ek7qu]

Great video ❤ Im not playing Tz, but excited to see the summoning gone - hope it will be removed from all armies. Would be much more easy to balance these factions.

[@Tedpikel]

Glad gaunt summoner actually looks viable again. However I'm not liking the pinks splitting into already killed blues. Seems like a cheap fix.

[@Elninyo99]

how dose it look viable?

[@nielsjensen4185]

I see one massive issue with the Destiny Dice. A low result on a DD can be used for nothing. In 40k for the Adepta Sororitas has a similar mechanic and you can mulligan the roll at the cost of removing one dice from the total. If you roll, unlikely and it will happen to some people, your DD as 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, or any other similar roll where you have a majority of low results then the DD is going to be almost useless. Anything that allows you to manipulate the dice is going to be almost mandatory for balance purposes. And there are units that uses healing abilities a lot, you showcased them yourself, all Moulder Beast units.

[@gregoryseraphin1426]

Having 2 6s means you also have a 12” guaranteed counter charge, so your enemy has to be VERY careful around monsters

[@Coldsweden]

Super disappointing, seems like the tzeentch models are going to the display case to collect dust

[@Fenrir-ge6ss]

You mean collecting thousand sons?

[@Disciple_]

Just to be clear, when you "spend" a destiny die, that means it's spent and no longer available for the rest of the game, correct?

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Yeah that's correct

[@CalCoastMotorsportsVentura]

🔥

[@sirbobulous]

Hellpit Abomination relies on healing a lot. The flame effect here is going to hurt them bad.

[@Orkimedes-sc8ef]

Plans within plans...

[@gregoryseraphin1426]

I feel like every preview has made armies feel more thematic but the announcement of no true summoning makes me worry for the thematicness of Seraphon. Slann summon, it’s what they’ve done since time immemorial. Almost all the flavor of Seraphon is in Slann being able to summon new armies

[@adamaltmann7039]

“There is no summoning units from nothing in the new edition of Warhammer Age of Sigmar, in order to reduce the need for extra miniatures beyond your initial army list.” I love this. The entire reason I haven’t started a Hedonites army is because I had no desire to collect and paint a bunch of models I MIGHT summon.

[@YumYumTasty35]

Also not to forget that balancing that was a nightmare

[@DaigotsuSoetsu]

No "free" summoning is great but having free terrain and free endless spells just means GW is selling us something else instead of more units.

[@tgiffin]

Rob can't stop, won't stop

[@warhq]

Man, I hope flamers are back. I have so many and want to play that list, at least sub competitively

[@mangohub3252]

Genuinely looking hard to pick an army

[@shinufilms]

nevermnd tzeentch, its ogors tommorow!

[@sashashadowhive6128]

The average of 2D6, change lowest to match higest, +1 is actually 9,94 so basically 10 I believe, which is insane. When you roll 2D6 and change the lower die to match the higher, the outcome becomes 2Xmax(a,b) where a and b are the results of the two dice. Lets first calculate how many pairings of dice will result in each number. for each outcome there's a number of possible ways to get to the outcome equal to the outcome -1 For example, 6 is the outcome of 5 different rolls (1,3) (2,3) (3,3) (3,2) (3,1) Now we simply count eh amount of rolls that result in the possible outcomes. The following list is the outcome followed by the amount of occurances 2 (1 occurance) 4 (3 occurances) 6 (5 occurances) 8 (7 occurances) 10 (9 occurances) 12 (11 occurances) Now we just calculate the sum of the results: 2×1+4×3+6×5+8×7+10×9+12×11 =2+12+30+56+90+132 =322 Now we calculate the average: 322/36 (the amount of possible die rolls on 2D6) Which is roughly 8,94 Add 1 from the Beacon of sorcery ability, You end up at a result of 9,94 or basically an average of 10 on the casting roll.

[@tizianozannin7625]

Beacon of sorcery doesn't work with master of magic because it's a modifier

[@sashashadowhive6128]

@@tizianozannin7625 yes it does. You can't modify it if you use destiny dice. But mastery of magic didn't mention it cannot be modified afterwards. Mastery of magic is kairos' ability btw.

[@Frolynnd]

I already cheat...but now it's the rules? I'm not sure how I feel about that. It kind of takes the fun out of it.

[@aqure9]

Seasoned chicken is good chicken

[@CrazyBlitzwing]

Completely and totally disagree, this whole faction profile looks terrible. I know that every faction is getting a reduction in overall power but this looks like someone took a hatchet to the rules for Tzeentch, which leads to a savage nerf. I mean going point by point: Wyrdflame just looks lame. A worse version of Nurgle's contamination that can only effect one unit per turn? At most you'll be able to do 15 mortal wounds across a whole game with it, enough to take out a unit of 5 Liberators if you focus it completely? Yeah that's game-changing indeed... Two spell lores but only allowed to pick one? That's just stupid. Tzeentch, Lumineth and Seraphon are the magic focus factions and of all of them Tzeentch is the one that should have multiple magic lores. Let mortal units have the Fate discipline and daemon units have the Change discipline. That would fit more with the themes of Tzeentch. With only one magic discipline Tzeentch will not be able to cast many spells since they still can't be multi-cast, and we have the most wizards in the game with multiple casts. The Spawn minis are butt ugly and outdated, why do GW keep writing spells and rules that make us need to buy lots of them? I'd rather just make a token for Chaos Spawn and use those instead than spend any money on those decrepit things. Kairos looks heavily reduced compared to the other named characters we've seen. He's lost Infernal Gateway, lost the ability to give extra destiny dice, and his save is worse. Unless he's gone down by 150pts, he won't see gameplay. He was already a limp noodle in combat (at best) and without Infernal Gateway how exactly is he going to do any real damage to the opponent? The two battle tactics is nice but hardly compensation for what he's lost. The Gaunt Summoner looks meh. He's basically just a teleport homer in AoS now. That's literally all his profile seems good for, teleporting other units into battle. The Curseling also looks meh, he can't steal spells anymore and is just a beatstick hero on foot which GW doesn't seem to understand is a worthless profile unless they are really hardcore like Bastian Carthalos or Sigvald. Pinks are worthless now unless they're reduced to 80-90pts at most. Much better to run units of 20 Blues/Brims to actually act as the tarpit that is the only thing they were ever good for. Honestly whoever wrote these rules clearly doesn't like Tzeentch and didn't put any real effort into it. They're lazy, poorly designed and so far Disciples of Tzeentch look to be the weakest faction revealed. Every other faction profile has still looked good, but this just looks terrible.

[@WithGas]

Finally a smart poster. The new Tzeentch rules are insulting. Magic sucks now, our close combat is meh, our shooting is okayish, we can't take punches... so basically we can do nothing well. Lost the Slaves units, still got no mortal elite or mortal named character like ALL the other Chaos God forces. GW definitely treats Tzeentch like the red-headed stepkid once again. Wyrdflame is the lamest thing ever, the edition says it's all about spawn yet they still suck, we can't even take a Mutalith. I can't use all my Slaves units. This sucks.

[@imjustjarrett]

The wording us no summoning from nothing. That sounds like there is still summoning, but at a cost.

[@CarbonMage]

Sounds like it's mostly either getting slain units back or a variation on reserves

[@l337haxz0rn00b]

Comments for the algorithm

[@umpac123]

No summoning (just recycling) is huge for the health of the game. The armies with good summoning basically had to buy and carry around two armies worth of models, it was horrendous.

[@normiegoblin7039]

Yes! It honestly put me off from playing this army, as I was not willing to buy several hundred pounds worth of Big Birds just so I could be “competitive”

[@Dwilson1282]

as someone that has despised free summoning for decades, kinda hope it goes away.

[@Dwilson1282]

@@ands1983 good. i think they got rid of it in the Horus Heresy as well. I’ve played games in the past where an opponent has summoned 2000 points of additional models on top of their 2000 point army. It’s ridiculous. That was all 6th and 7th 40k though. It’s just not fun to play against. Now summoning units you pay points for… i’m cool with that. Or some kind of mechanic where you swap out a unit on the table for a summoned unit (even if it’s more powerful), would be ok too.

[@TobyGilham]

Chicken in the bin, Flavour back in the army

[@clayandros2038]

What flavour? Not being able to summon REMOVES flavour

[@lorddyson6487]

​@clayandros2038 ye i have a ton of nurgle beasts and nurglings I summon into my mortals army but guess i cant do that anymore 🤦‍♂️

[@jakea3950]

​@@lorddyson6487time to play daemons 😊

[@mitchthegreat]

Where are the pdfs or info you're reading? Is there a public source?

[@reaver11122]

Warhammer Community website

[@OgreOnSprue]

I don't play tzeentch, but I'm excited for Ogor Mawtribes tomorrow!

[@transhuman4344]

To be honest that is a big nerf. A a DOT payer im excited for the new mechanic but without coalition allies, summoning and pink horrors nerf the win rate will drastically fall, even with point drops there is no way to stay alive long enough.

[@malekit15]

We don't have the point value or the full rules! Stop beeing a doomer and wait

[@Orihutcherson]

Horrors nerfed …

[@kistefriends6376]

@@ands1983 10 Pinks , 20Wounds. (New) and bullshit split (healing another unit). 10 pinks old 50 Wounds and they split like crazy. (Old) If we dont get other things in the Book, Pinks are nerfed Big Times

[@ismasekkate9607]

Great preview great review

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Thanks for the visit

[@damianelvidge9395]

Best one yet!

[@marc-andrefecteau1463]

i'm the opposite, this faction focus is the only one that got me down, the whole burning mechanic is not great, especially as someone who hates the demon side of the army (i played guild of summoners because the mortals subfactions were garbage (and one of them was this burning mechanic for acolytes by the way) and the chickens are the only good looking demons) and this is clearly made to work with flamers and horrors. Kairos now is the only one that can do arcane suggestion, which was a spell for mortals before and contrary to other big casters we've seen doesnt have a target a friendly unit mechanic so still continuing with the boring 18" killbox. if you get only 3 spells from the lore, warscroll spells need to be good otherwise you'll run out of casts and they aren't on the gaunt summoner and the curseling. The gaunt summoner lost all it's powerfull caster vibe to only be a super flimsy deepstrike delivery system that will get sniped easy by things like jezzails or if other armies have similar snipers. way too risky. The Curseling is only very situationaly good and then his ability still needs a 4+ to work, if they dont have a 2cast wizard it's completely useless as it stops at the start of your hero phase. I'm ok with summoning being gone, but for the chaos spawn, you might pay for a spawn and because you get unbound or are facing an elite army that you can't kill a model easy with a d3, you might never even put it on the table. Pinks are bad because you can just focus either them or the blues to remove the unit and the split will never come into play, but as i dont like demons i dont really care. With all that said, i keep hope that the tzaangors focused detachment will be playable, but this article was a big bummer

[@transhuman4344]

Yeah, the new mechanic really is not compensating for all the losses.

[@kalebwalters]

Get out of my thoughts please and thank you. :(

[@escapo6895]

Generally agree that this one was disappointing, but a few notes: There will likely be other sources for transforming things into spawn, so we won't need to rely on this one spell alone. (Though one of the sources could have been Kairos and he clearly doesn't do that). Remember that we also have Manifestation lore, so there will be at least 6 non-warscroll spells available at the start of the game, with that number going down somewhat if they persist across turns. As for the split mechanic, in practice a skilled opponent will surely be able to mostly negate it, but I could see a reinforced blob of Blues pushed forward in a way that can't be avoided. Once that is done, the Pinks become more of a problem. It will depend largely on the points and the rules on the Blue Horror scroll. At least, thank heavens, it's within 12" and not *wholly* within. That would have been terrible.

[@joet9459]

As a comment, if you use the Curseling to dispel a lvl 1 Wizard who used Magical Intervention, then they won't be able to cast during their turn. So you have the Curseling be the one to always dispel any Magical Intervention casts and then that Wizard can't cast on their turn

[@marc-andrefecteau1463]

@@joet9459 IF you roll that 4+

[@omarcortez3220]

This army has been neutered. It was already struggling. Take away summoning and iconic horrors and your left with just spells.

[@dongold9605]

Not even spells as you only get 3 in a spell lore for your whole army. Hurts to be a wizard army in 4th edition, looks like.

[@pdthepowerdragon5412]

I am a huge fan of the new Tzeentch rules. They look more engaging and fun to play, less stuff for me as a player to keep track of. And all of those I know seem to think It’ll be more fun to play against.

[@Troobalaro]

Removing summoning from the game (especially from all mono god chaos factions) really has me depressed.

[@bored1326]

agreed i do think it needed to be toned down but it being gone is sad

[@stevecatpatrick8056]

My issue is they didn't replace the flexibility and optionality. Like if you're going to take away summoning the right unit for the situation, You need to give back some kind of toolbox that allows people to choose the right tool for the situation. Especially for the God of change! For them especially I think they should have had more spells and the ability to switch them out on the fly as the situation called for. I have six spells total for now (which I hope really goes up to six per lore with the codexes because three is a joke) and let us choose three and switch one for the other at the top of each of our turns. Maybe let us do the same with endless spells let us be the faction that can switch one endless spell out and in to the lore and make custom lore combos . Now that's change. Where is the change here? Where are the plans within plans?

[@Kaidan5]

This is by far the worst faction review I have ever seen untill now. Wyrdflame mechanic is a nurgle style on a glass army (plastic now) wich wont work imo. Summoning wich is a staple for the faction is now gone for some reason, a spell that costs points to summon a unit(thanks for the nerf), less survivability without the -1 to hit on the army, less spells, Kairos still a 3 caster (facelalm). The army feels like i'm being punished for chosing it. Less complex , more complicated. All the hype regarding this edition died with this preview since It seems i wont be playing my army sadly.

[@PhoenixExcess]

Hard disagree this faction review has been the one that has me down the most. Loss of summoning, horrors nerfed and allows your opponent all the power in the split mechanic to the point where you don’t have it. The wyrdflame mech is just Nurgle but worse. We lost spell casting bonuses on the gaunt summoner and still tied to a chicken to get any bonus to cast and all our spells are 7+ so it’s just a coin flip in a army that’s supposed to be dedicated to the GOD OF MAGIC. I’ll wait until the full index but my 3k+ points going back in the display case based on this garbage preview.

[@omarcortez3220]

I kept waiting for the part where it got better and it didn’t 😢

[@cursling9]

I play Tzeentch, almost exclusively. Have since early 00's. It has been weird watching the changes over the years where they've been effortlessly good and overbearing, unfun to play or play against, to the other end of the spectrum where they're unplayable (hardly featuring at all at event top tables). It's a problematic faction. As much as it is nice for a faction to "dominate" an aspect of the battle (magic, in this case), this edition seems to be moving away from extreme imbalances. Sounds like Tzeentch is going to be a thinker again. Not auto win.

[@zemiron]

You don't know that all your spells are cast on a 7+ as you have only seen a few spells. There's still 5 spells from the two spell lores.

[@PhoenixExcess]

@@zemiron we’ve seen 3 spells at 7+. Transformed to spawn, divert realm gate, and arcane suggestion are all 7+. So we have hope that the other two are something our wizards can cast alone or we’re just taking a bird always.

[@spiritofgroot1999]

Yea, because you can’t destiny dice a 7+

[@thesoothsayer9223]

Thanks for your perspective Rob, been waiting for this to see if I could feel better about tzeentch since my first read through didn't excite me. The fire just kinda feels like disease. The no free models summoning/splitting feels healthy for the game but it was kind of my jam. Glad I got bit by the FEC delusion because I may be falling out with my first love.