What's REALLY Going on in Age of Sigmar 4's Current Meta? | December 2024

[@vandamwtc]

Ogors internal balance is trash and its magnefied when 1 unit and 2 heros are nerfed and it tanks.The whole index needs a rewrite.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Massive agree

[@shinufilms]

also doesnt help when your core foot infantry are a 5+ save

[@kilivanjg2813]

@@shinufilms fyreslayers giving you side eye with their 6+

[@Orkimedes-sc8ef]

"...is 69%, which is obviously nice" Love it

[@markpandelidis2079]

It's amazing how 1 person can do the job of an entire department and understand the game better than the creators of the game. I also love how metawatch is also just not a thing anymore? They just stopped.

[@javierpeiroaguado4503]

Sometimes I can see if any is bshit or just op just seeing the points and the rules/warscrolls. Just at the first read, it was pretty obvius. Per example, when I read Ogors and see gluttons price, only with a few maths you can see is pretty unbalanced also the rest of the army is pretty expensive vs his power. Same happened for me with Nighaunt rules, and same for Khorne and Ironjawz rules + ponts values. They have low army rules (isn't garbage, but comparing others...), also they are so expensive. Sometimes you just get it at first or second read. I'm pretty shure they know too, but they want go slow or they have fear to get some players mad dunno.

[@seabrain1212]

Been trying to make fyreslayers work and they just don't. They die too fast, they don't do enough damage, and they can't threaten objectivea because they're slow. Playing them is honestly a exercise in frustration as you watch Varanguard blitz the board and then remove whole units without trying while I struggle to remove individual models.

[@Koalaninja90]

Everything is a frustration compared to varanguard.

[@jakubburchardt4009]

This edition just doesnt work

[@seabrain1212]

@@jakubburchardt4009 Disagree. The edition is great. The index balance is all out of wack. Give it time.

[@seabrain1212]

@@Koalaninja90 yeah they are an extreme example. But I feel the same against basically any index with some strength at all. SCE? Cant punch through their armor, they shoot me off the board. Seraphon? Aggradons just kill me. Cities? I get shot off the board slowly walking. Soulblight? Their recursion and board presence means I can't contest enough board space to stand a chance--also they just kill me. At this point I think Fyreslayers should just have an army-wide 5+ ward with a rune for a 4+ for one battle round. That would actually help our ability to stay on the table past round 3.5. This is all infantry lists by the way, because magmadroths are too expensive and cant benefit from the anti-shooting artefact, so they just die.

[@insensateraccoon]

Yeah, I'm pretty sad about it. Fyreslayers was my most-played army last edition, but in this one it's just frustrating. They've become a janky glass cannon that's too slow to avoid getting hit before reaching their target and needs a bunch of steps to compete with the damage that other factions can just do without jumping through all the hoops. Which, frankly, just feels like a slap in the face, lol: we've always been a slow army with little unit variety, but at least we used to be halfway tanky to compensate. Now we're tissue paper and end up having to bring even *more* of those same few units.

[@aenimal47]

Also surprised with how well FEC is doing. I may just be bad, but I have not been able to get them to work no matter what I try.

[@tbarf]

Felt this. Have a buddy who runs exclusively flayers and Morbegs who’s done quite well. I just can’t get any other list to work, unless it’s Ushoran/cardinal/Knights it’s not working

[@craigmaxwell8352]

I'm very surprised based on the representation of SCE and STD which FEC can't hurt basically because we only have about 2 units who had a read of more than 1, but good to see! I haven't played tournaments but have done OK with them at my local clubs

[@andreasghazal5026]

Thank you! i play a lot of armies and its impossible to win for me while playing FEC.

[@UberPwner09]

The reason FEC is doing better than its index would indicate is because it-much like StD-has absolutely horrible internal balance. You wanna win with FEC? Spam the hell out of morbheg knights, and don't even bother to pretend that anything else in the book is even remotely good, because it's not (in comparison to morbs). A list comprising of Ush, a herald, a pope, and all the morbs you can fit is almost guaranteed to get you a positive winrate. FEC has bad battle traits and bad warscrolls, but its artifacts, heroic traits, spell and prayer lore are top notch, and it has the best recursion in the game.

[@seanedgar164]

I'm glad to hear Ushoran and knights is working because I'm getting myself him and a starter box as a xmas gift to myself

[@PokkyJon]

Really insightful stuff. It would be great to see stats on the internal balance of books, but that feels like a mammoth task!

[@jimskaven5963]

Skaven are not fine when no one wants to play against you because you're rolling 18-108 dice, twice. Skaven need other options. Other armies as well need a looking over as they have the same problem, but the Skaven codex came out effectively missing Pestilens and Eshin. (Edit: That Ogor PWRP number though...ooof.)

[@seanedgar164]

I'm kinda sad to hear it coz I collected a bunch of their cool monsters and a screaming bell. Was hoping to make something work but I wouldn't want to collect ratling guns

[@gwell2118]

And that is a good point too the amount any these armies is played affects the ranking. As mentioned technically speaking Stormcast have easily the highest actual win rate by total but is pulled down by the losses from less experience players. If Stormcast were only played by professionals at the percentage NH or DoZ were they would easily be #1.

[@tremolo_painter]

New here, came over from Juggz. This sort of information is super interesting, and really well done!

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Welcome aboard!

[@balemoran3168]

Just want i needed to see as i finish painting my last fyreslayer a head of an event this weekend.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

BE THE CHANGE

[@roguedm6523]

Make Doomwheels Great Again

[@DocLecterHann]

i'm playing Fyreslayer, i've been since late V2, and i'm loosing hope that one day FS will be just playable against all factions

[@seabrain1212]

@@DocLecterHann Whats your list look like? Not saying that its your list--we're in a bad state right now but I'm just making sure you're not making it harder than it needs to be

[@TattooedTabletop]

Fyreslayers are definitely in a rough state, but honestly, give it time, keep painting them up. Rules always come around and honestly playing them at events provides the information needed to affect change 👍 Keep the Lodge Fire burning 🔥

[@scottmills4164]

I started playing Nighthaunt in 2.0, they were awful for years. Worst of the worst. Now they are on top. Be patient.

[@ce4879]

With such a huge variety of armies everyone eventually gets a bad edition. Gloomspite were the utter joke army for 4 years even(edition and a half) before they got a mushroom elixir boost. And look at how close Sylvaneth were nearly the worst spot before the Battlescroll saved them. Just keep the fires of Grimnir burning and enjoy the hobby ‘Til Vulcatrix rumbles with good news and Aqshy blazes anew. 🌋 👍

[@alexifer22]

Great job once again to Rob and the stats team!

[@Asathor76]

Great breakdown again Rob, awesome job!

[@orkimedes]

Man if this battlescroll lowers the ceiling on NH, Tzeentch and SCE. The game will really open up.

[@Dotification]

That line chart for the Ogors is brutal (as a down-slope.) At their best, they only did as well as NH is doing lately (a neighboring chart)

[@Mutzig79]

I can see why Nighthaunt are up there, played them with my Seraphon. Ethereal made it feel like I was fighting with one arm tied behind my back!

[@YuriGualeri-t5q]

to fix NH they just have to change save from "ignore all positive and negative mod to save" in "They can't get positive mod to save, when a Nh model is hit by a melee or ranged attack ignore rend characteristics of the weapon" this will keep them pretty hard to shift but give people some way to mod their save with spell and debuff effect.

[@seabrain1212]

@@YuriGualeri-t5q I honestly dont think its any one thing that makes NH busted, but all of the pieces together. They fly. They ignore modifiers to save. They have massive debuffs on the charge. They're fast. They have a horde of models. They have good to great attack profiles. They have some recursion. I think the biggest thing is model count. Bring that down by a third and see how well they do.

[@dustinroberson1865]

@@seabrain1212 Remove the top two damage profiles from nighthaunt and they become a bottom tier army. Yes, they are mobile, but only a couple of the units. When they changed the stalkers to just one unit, it hurt the mobility. Bladegheists do great damage, but if you get rid of them, it hurts their damage output severely. Nighthaunt have a 6+ ward that blocks a whopping 1 damage per 6, and a 4+ save that can't get any better (blocks half of attacks). This means that armies that rely on rend are hindered drastically, but armies that rely on volume of attacks, or high damage attacks still do great against them. Dreadblades are great for scoring objectives and a couple battle tactics, but in reality, if the opponent is on the objective, they still need to land a 9" charge to contest the objective and aren't worth much when on it. NH doesn't have the healing that they used to, so if you start taking out units, they can't bring them back very easily. They could retreat from combat and rally, but one of the best things nh has is their charging and effects from charging, so they shouldn't spend much time out of combat. If GW nerfed the two top damage profiles for nighthaunt, they would be a completely different army. IMO for them to stay competitive, some of the bottom tier units would need small buffs so that they are usable. Look at any list and you always see the same 3 or 4 units, because hexwraith and dreadblades are the only decent source of mobility, and bladegheist is their big source of damage. To say that we need to change how ethereal works across the whole army because 3 units are making it strong is a bit of a stretch. I play nh and as much as I would hate to see them nerf those three units, I think that is what nh needs in order to drop down to a reasonable win rate. If they do that, I think some of the other units will need buffs to offer some variety. Looking at these charts, people are already figuring out how to beat nh, because the numbers are trending down. My friends have beaten me by targeting my high damage units with high volume and high damage attacks. I may win the first couple of rounds, but if you manage to take them out, nh falls apart because their only option at that point is to run around. (good luck getting half of the battle tactics if you aren't doing any damage)

[@HeindriConradie]

NEEEEERRRRRDDDDSSSS :)

[@HeindriConradie]

Sorry I am a Sons Player so numbers make me angry

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Ah a Gargant player

[@HeindriConradie]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams hahaha Yup ;)

[@HeindriConradie]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams Love your vids man! The SoB tier list was hella funny

[@dredgenvarg7092]

I was surprised with Khorne being as high as it is, nice to see people are finding a way around some of the current problems. I really wish they would do something with bloodcrushers as they are currently pointless to play. I would really like to use mine but at the moment there just seems to be something else in the army that does each job better.

[@TommyVincentMathieu]

Skipping over KO ? It's surprising to see them up there when it's so hard for them to score the battle tactics. Would like to know your opinion on the army, we don't see them much in stats center either.

[@TommyVincentMathieu]

I guess like you said later in the video, very small number of players that are probably really skilled with them.

[@insomniac8458]

Seraphon juat needs a bit more mortal output or a better way to apply wards.

[@pavro_w0t719]

As a Seraphon player, I rather have more power instead of recurssion. Stronger saurus warriors and monsters instead of having standart to mediocre troops to compensate with a Slann to bring them back.

[@kylelewis7621]

That’s assuming you get lucky enough to bring them back.

[@crg1850]

I love these videos were you go over the stats. Its super fun. I'd bet my house they are going to do minor nerfs to the top 1 or 2 factions and then just lower the points for models in struggling armies. I think their to afraid to do anything more ambitious than that.

[@mattyno964]

Agreed. All lower performing armies become swarm armies, yay.

[@joshsmith1179]

Thanks Rob! Great info! Two questions:.For my Hedonites, GW was torn apart for their temptation dice mechanic. Is that ass bad as we thought it would be, or is their problem just durability? For my Daughters of khaine, their Blood Ritez mechsnic i think is skewed. They WANT to be aggressive, but they have no defense, and the combat buffs come to late for them to matter. Thoughts?

[@gwell2118]

The only way I see them being able to rein in Nighthaunt they need to nerf their movement or nerf their survivability, because those two things are just too good right now.

[@scottmills4164]

You shut your mouth! Just use the N word when talking about Nighthaunt.

[@dustinroberson1865]

In reality, it's only 1 or 2 units that are a problem. Nighthaunt are very top heavy and bottom weak. There aren't any middle of the road units. I think trying to nerf the whole army would be detrimental to anyone that wanted to play the army in a different way. GW should focus more on allowing variety. If X unit is too strong, what can be done to that unit, not what can be done to the faction to hinder that unit (and all other subsequent units) Some factions can deal with nighthaunt fairly well, but a few can't deal with them at all in the current state. I've found that ranged units are a pita if I can't tie them up. Also, the survivability is only a problem for units that rely on rend. Units that just do good damage can shred nighthaunt (6+ ward only blocks 1 of every 6 damage on average) Nighthaunt doesn't have as many ways to heal or bring back models anymore either. You could bring Nagash for the healing, but then you lose out on a lot of damage and nagash becomes a target.

[@balemoran3168]

​@@dustinroberson1865 It sounds like you have been playing NH too much and have lost touch with just how good they have it.

[@dustinroberson1865]

@@balemoran3168 It has nothing to do with how much I have played them. Run high volume attacks against them and their anti-rend means nothing. NH are great at getting points out of the gate, but if you attack the bladegheists right away with high volume, they never get a chance to do anything. Yes, a nh army with nothing but bladegheists and a few dreadblades is a problem, but that's because the bladegheists need a nerf. Not the whole faction. NH win rate has been coming down with no changes to rules, which shows that people are starting to realize what it takes to beat them. What I find funny, is that if NH is really such a big problem, why aren't people putting things into their army to deal with it (like high damage or high volume attacks)? I think the higher tier players are doing just that, and it's why you don't see NH winning tournaments anymore. They are still beating those that aren't adapting, but those that have adapted are beating them. Definition of insanity...continuing to do the same thing expecting different results. People look at damage profiles and say "The profile with rend does the most damage, I'm going with that" Rather than saying "This unit will deal with NH and they are one of the biggest issues right now, I'll throw one of those in my army"

[@dustinroberson1865]

@@balemoran3168 For the record, I'm not against NH getting another nerf. I just think the non nh players are going about it the wrong way. There are 3 units being used all the time. Those are the problem. The NH rules just make those even stronger. If you nerf the nh rules, it won't hurt those units a lot, but it hurts the rest of the army that is weak. find a way to nerf those 3 units and it nerfs the top lists a lot more. Then, I still think some of the other units and battle formations need reworking, because they are non existent.

[@Fortunes.Fool.]

1:40:18 I got 4 Dominions for $100 on Amazon, basically two whole armies. 2:38:30 Rob and Val from SBP say these models were meant for Old World and they got taken away for a silly reason.

[@stuartrussell8635]

Rather than being in a fighting meta because of chosen and varanguard. Would you not say it's a fighting meta because of the drop system forcing you to not include screens? (Which counter these melee juganauts?)

[@spiegel487]

I will make my fyreslayers work. Meta be damned. The lodge fire stays lit brothers.

[@kilivanjg2813]

Rip my beautiful Fyreslayers.

[@seabrain1212]

@@kilivanjg2813 Patience. Our day will come.

[@kilivanjg2813]

@seabrain1212 we aren't very tanky, hope it comes soon or all my wounds are gona vanish!

[@dustinroberson1865]

Crazy to see nighthaunt at the top still. Looking at all of the battle reports, I never see them as the winner anymore and rarely see them top 3. I guess they don't have as many people at the bottom in tournaments?!?

[@dadjokedillon]

What would you say are the 2 absolute must have units for a Slaves to Darkness list? Love your content.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Yes. Belakor and chaos sorcerer lord

[@dadjokedillon]

Thank you!​@@thehonestwargamerstreams

[@Fraxxo21]

And Varanguard even more imo

[@BonzaiBomber]

Sorry to see that Bonesplitterz win ratio wasn't tallied. The previous graphs had them actually doing well. I haven't been able to play them competitively yet, and the internal balance is crappy, but I can see some teeth in the army. Kragnos + Kopp Rukk is pretty brutal. No wards against him, rend 3 that can be boosted to rend 4 if you ever need it. Healing through Wardokk's and maybe a lifeswarm. Back him up with bricks of Boarboys with augmented rend, and their boosted power through ability. No wards against them either as long as they attack Kragnos's targets. Healing through Wardokk's and maybe a lifeswarm. So either Kragnos gets healed 6 on your turn, or you can potentially bring back two boar boys. It's a shame. I love the army. Was hoping to see them go out with a bang instead of a whimper. At least Beasts of Chaos is going down swinging.

[@HobbyDad_dy]

Here’s a hypothetical for you, what is the best army that I could pick that I could still have reasonable complaint equity (that my army sucks) if I lose?

[@KateHolden]

I feel like Stormcast would be bumped into a more comfortable position simply by nerfing Longstrikes, personally. They just seem a bit too easy to use effectively as an all-purpose "delete unit" tool. It looks like good players can build a winning list without longstrikes, so just nerfing them would hopefully just make it harder to get really easy wins or go 5-0 without blasting the faction to below 50%.

[@vandamwtc]

Also: can we make covering fire 2cp? I don't get why counter charge, which takes some planning and maneuvering, is 2cp, but C.F. is point and click and 1cp.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

I've been saying this since before launch so I agree

[@vandamwtc]

@thehonestwargamerstreams I'm in an endless debate with my friend about C.F. and he doesn't think it should be 2cp. "If you charge with a group of 10 ogres vs. 2 shots from a shark or 4 shots from a turtle hitting on 4s...far worse of an outcome for me" One of his points. I disagree due to the difficulty in setting up C.C. I also argue if they insist on keeping it 1cp, it should either be a flat 5 to hit, or -2 to hit roll.

[@DanielDavies-l5b]

Fist of thanks for an amazing channel! Love the content. I have just started getting in to the game and I’m currently paiting ogors. Seeing this video I get a bit scared of how my games will go. Do games workshop balance the game and can I expect ogors to get stronger? 😂

[@tysonwollas235]

I’m always terrified when one of my armies does too well. I’m not a great player so my Tzeentch keeps getting beat by my Slaanesh friend. But none the less my games will now get harder as GW goes in with the dreaded Double to triple NERF. Ahh😭

[@DCUATL]

I’d love to see a casuals rankings. The AoS stats with the top 200 ranked players removed.

[@Darthsabi]

"...that only nerds care about" so your entire audience. 😂❤

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

And meeeee

[@Kimtanashino]

How can Kharadrons be that high with such a sh*tty index ? I'm glad for them but it's beyond my logic. Sons of Behemat and Ogors need a complete (and quick) rewrite of the whole army. It's taking a very long time for crucial adjustments needed.

[@Eclypsia13]

They also have a very low play rate, so peeps who are still using them are probably KO mains who can squeeze all the potential and exploit what power it does have.

[@BoomstarPrime]

I've only been playing for 11 months and only just started painting 8 months ago. Ogors are my first and only fully painted army. Ogors felt awesome to play in 3rd edition. Brutal charges and fun rules. Now? Nearly everything they do feels lack luster. Nearly everything is extremely overcosted. I don't get what the balance team is doing with them. Or if they even know what they are doing with them, since they are just so far from the mathematical reality of what they can do for their points.

[@lokisrun]

I feel like you would have loved Ogre Kingdoms in the final edition of Fantasy Battles as well, super thematic rules and getting those big charges off felt so good

[@myownaccount5058]

QUESTION: are these stats taken just from 2 day tournaments or 1 and 2 day tournaments?

[@KevinPotter-w5c]

Wouldn’t it be nice if GWl actually took proper attention to this, plus the nerf on units is often way out balanced 👹

[@DrButsie]

Are ppl not playing Beastmen or Bonesplitterz in tournaments??

[@KcBull]

Do you think that AOS will ever swing more towards grindy combats or does GW/ the community prefer the high speed, binary kill or be killed style of current aos?

[@JxSparrow]

...why are Sylvaneth and Cities both at 50% but Cities is clearly lower on the graph?

[@gabeperras3711]

With my Ogors I could have a game that seems to be going well then in the course of a single fight phase my army is off the table. 4 wounds isn't much of a defense if I just have to tank the damage and die when my opponent has a better save + ward

[@FekalKilla]

I try to make Human CoS work, its not an easy job to do, but I really enjoy playing them

[@kravernar]

Why do you think the Soulblights are dropping their wins at this rate? The index dosent seems that weak hmm hmm!

[@coltonleddy2275]

They lack damage output, and the chaff units they have historically relied on are too weak/overpriced.

[@OregonBOLI]

Many of the factions seem to be propped up by 1-2 really good lists or scrolls that you just spam the heck out of. Is that what's happening with Idoneth? Do they just need to be renamed Idoneth Eel Spam?

[@skitkekt4875]

Omg behemat is cooked. But i still wonder, do they use the army of renown or just standard battle formation

[@Dtz_miniature]

I'd love to see BCR winrate, even with 3+ save they wouldn't shine, please Helps the big lads :c

[@koboldm]

Maybe because in Brazil we don’t have many players (and is not so easy to come by minis) so the local meta is different, but most armies here have being very balanced. Off course some stuff need tweaking, but it isn’t so bad. The only thing is that most players here don’t have endless spells, this for sure affects the meta.

[@Dotification]

Must be nice! I bet the Tzeentch & other magic domination armies are doing fine without them.

[@LittleHorseVoice]

Why do Sons belong at a 38% WR ): my local group is looking in AoS and i was considering them to be my first army, since GW got rid of beastmen /:

[@fraserhogg7198]

I've been thinking about Fight twice abilities for a while now, and whilst they're fun as a DoK player, I finally agree that they shouldn't be in the game. However, they are in the game and I doubt that is going to change. With DoK I at least need to spend command points in order to fight twice with a unit. Do you think Chosen and Varanguard would see slightly less play if you had to spend CP to fight twice? It means they wouldn't be able to AOA or AOD either from my understanding

[@alphabetbeer]

I feel like my biggest issue with this edition is how bad most of the Monsters are (other than a few named heroes). There's too much anti-monster tech across multiple armies and most monsters are throwing pillows around in combat. I think raising the base rend of most monsters by 1 could be a thematic and rules boon they desperately need. (You're telling me my little Saurus warriors and my massive Stegadon have the exact same amount of armor penetration? Fuck outta here. My Carnosaur's bite has less rend than charging Chaos knights! It's a godsdamned T Rex!)

[@elias1579]

I’m getting trounced with my BoK

[@Malisteen]

so for the deadites... nighthaunt still too high, mostly down to how their fundamental design interacts with the 4e core rules. short of a new battletome rethinking their core faction rules & battlescrolls im not sure there's a real fix. soulblight a bit low, but not by enough to matter, & the things in the army that aren't doing well probably can't be fixed due to how badly the core rules punish infantry & monsters. obr & fec doing fine-ish in the fat middle, but a nerf to kavalos - either targeted or part of a general cavalry nerf - could easily ruin obr outright because that one scroll is holding up the whole faction.

[@dustinroberson1865]

nerf dreadblade, bladegheist and hexwraith and nh falls...Use high volume or high damage attacks rather than a bunch of rend and nh has problems.

[@Malisteen]

nerf all three and the faction still has the speed & maneuverability & cheap gofer units to score plus multiple other effective enough damage output options and unrendable 4+/6+ that can increase on demand to 4+/5+... So yeah, I really just don't see an effective fix here. The things thay make nighthaunt nighthaunt - fast, flying, unrendable, deployment tricks, can't be locked in combat, tons of redundancy since half their units and heroes all do the same things so anything you nerf has two alternatives wairing to step in - all mesh too well with what 4e's core rules need you to do to win.

[@dustinroberson1865]

@@Malisteen Only 1 unit can't be locked in combat with the nerf a few months ago. Unrendable is only important if someone is trying to max out rend. Bring one unit that is mass shots, or high damage and it causes problems. Without damage, NH falls off late game. They will score early and take a lead, but will lose models throughout the fight. We don't have the healing that we used to. In 3rd edition, you could bring back a bunch of models every turn multiple ways. The only units that are really maneuverable are hexwraiths and and dreadblades. Those two units would be part of the nerf. Almost every model in nighthaunt is 1 wound. Yes, they have a decent save and a ward save, but it comes at a cost of having 1 wound. The 4+/5+ on demand is using CP which is a very valuable currency and other factions have better things that can be done with them. Your argument that there are multiples in the army that can just be put in if one gets a nerf can't be any further from the truth. The top few units in NH are very strong. The nh rules amplify that. The rest of the units in nh are pretty weak and the nh rules aren't strong enough to even make them viable. Most people are using Reikenor or Lady O as the spellcaster depending on points available. Both do what they are supposed to do, but aren't OP based on their cost. Some people use Guardian of Souls, his ability is pretty strong, but it requires him as a 5 wound spell caster to be in combat in order for models near it to get +1 to wound rolls. Basically sacrificing it if you can't kill the engaged unit in one shot. As far as units go, most of the units in nh don't get used, because they are garbage. I wish these stats could be broken up per faction based on list building. Lists that have BG, DB, and HW are probably carrying the rest of the lists. The more of those that they have, the better the win rate. Lists that aren't utilizing 2 or more of those 3 units are probably bottom tier. Lists that don't have at least 1 of those probably don't exist.

[@puracy3452]

I do think will get a balance update this week even. The fact gw said they would update the app on 15th with the new RoR. I think they will be lazy and do all the updating at the same time

[@javierpeiroaguado4503]

Why nurgle is at 43%? I just destroy with it, the unit of 10 blightnkings only need total defense and almost nobody can kill it xD, and also +4 OC in total plus the minus OC from the object is pretty brutal too... also we have good midrange shooting and DR with Grutrot... Papa nurgle is strong... dosn't feel weak for me xD. I have only 2 looses of 18 games in tournament with it on 4.0 against 13632671 gluttons and against nighaunt pre-nerf (but by timing, I don't get the clock and i pay it, i win it for shure, they havent almost any unit left).

[@JJCarper]

thinking of starting Nurgs. what's the list you rocking? I'm really. fancying using Rotigus!

[@javierpeiroaguado4503]

@@JJCarper Nurgle rotbringers 1960/2000 pts Maggotkin of Nurgle | Plague Cyst Drops: 3 Spell Lore - Lore of Malignance Manifestation Lore - Krondspine Incarnate General's Regiment The Glottkin (510) • General Plaguebearers (140) Putrid Blightkings (190) Regiment 1 Gutrot Spume (160) Putrid Blightkings (190) Rotmire Creed (130) Regiment 2 Lord of Blights (130) • Gift of Febrile Frenzy • The Carrion Dirge Putrid Blightkings (380) • Reinforced Rotmire Creed (130) Faction Terrain Feculent Gnarlmaw Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App App: 1.7.0 | Data: 216 This is my list pre-balance. I don't play with it post. But i played it at 3 tournaments with no change, and I had no loss with it. Including 2 tpurnaments as shield. Now I need do minor changes, but I'm testing Slaves with the new book xD. But that list rocks. I have another list with 1 beast of nurgle and horticulus setting trees and holding one flank almost alone xD. But I don't revised it ultimately.

[@javierpeiroaguado4503]

@@JJCarper Nurgle rotbringers 1960/2000 pts Maggotkin of Nurgle | Plague Cyst Drops: 3 Spell Lore - Lore of Malignance Manifestation Lore - Krondspine Incarnate General's Regiment The Glottkin (510) • General Plaguebearers (140) Putrid Blightkings (190) Regiment 1 Gutrot Spume (160) Putrid Blightkings (190) Rotmire Creed (130) Regiment 2 Lord of Blights (130) • Gift of Febrile Frenzy • The Carrion Dirge Putrid Blightkings (380) • Reinforced Rotmire Creed (130) Faction Terrain Feculent Gnarlmaw Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App App: 1.7.0 | Data: 216 This list is pre-balance but I played 3 tournaments, 2 of them team tournaments as shield with 0 looses. I need fix it bcause i have 40 points more after balance, but minor changes. I'm testing slaves right now, but for sure this list rock. The 5 putrid on general batallion guys usually had -1 atack and act like a shield for glot, but you can put also the plaguebearers, or eventhe new +2 movement on the lord of blights. I had another list with horticulus and 1 beast of nurgle, who can hold a flank almost alone setting trees, but Is a bit deprecated and I don't worked on it on months. I hope it helps!

[@zachlawrence9875]

I play Nighthaunt and I fear an effective Nerf. I can't imagine what an effective Nerf would be without completely crippling the armies play style nursing or removing the unreadable saves and nerfing or removing the flight and speed would make the Army not at all what is the whole thing is

[@seabrain1212]

@@zachlawrence9875 Probably just points increases.

[@Strade8]

1/3 less models can be enough 😅

[@dustinroberson1865]

I play nighthaunt as well and i think a nerf to bladegheist, hexwraith and dreadblades would be enough to reduce them, but could be crippling on its own. I don't think the army rules are the problem. I think the army rules with those units is the problem.

[@dustinroberson1865]

as much as I hate points increases to nerf a unit, try playing against someone and remove 1 unit from your army at the beginning. I guarantee the game goes much different. I played in a tournament with a more fun black coach, nagash army and only having one reinforced bladegheist was a bit of a nightmare. My opponent had two options. if they had a lot of rend, they could target nagash and take him out right away, or they could just target that one unit of bladegheist. Most games they targeted nagash as soon as they could. One game, I had my bladegheist targeted round 1 and wiped from the board due to a couple decent charge rolls, and then the next turn when I brought them back, before I could even land a charge with them, they wiped them out again. At that point, my army was reduced too much, just dreadblades, black coach, kosoes and my nagash.

[@nebbynoo1127]

Hi Louise :)

[@smatta84]

So bonesplitterz in stats, for shame!

[@PonyusTheWolfdude]

I play Hedonites and Human Cities, against my mate who plays seraphon and tzeentch. Glad to know it's not just me sucking but the meta looks similar to my experience.

[@markarmenta2304]

Why are soul blight doing so badly

[@theOGBitSlinger]

Do you think it’s purely Tzeentch or is it also Morbid Conj? Perhaps Tzeentch doesn’t need a nerf as much as endless spells do? This is coming from a Tzeentch only player 🤙

[@Snuffalaffagas]

It's Kairos, not the faction itself. There's a reason there hasnt been a single placing competitive list without Kairos that im aware of Being able to manipulate battle tactics is MASSIVE in a game where playing the mission actually matters now

[@cyanidedreamer]

​@@Snuffalaffagas Honestly the battle tactic part isnt even the best part about him, his spell is bonkers strong

[@Snuffalaffagas]

The worst part is if they nerf Kairos they nueter the faction. Disciples dont have enough (compared to other factions that is) when it comes to nearly any other unit with the exception of maybe Tzaangor bricks and Skyfires -Horrors are just generic wound batteries for objective control, everyone has that (with a few exceptions) -The rest of the daemon units hit like wet noodles and die way to easily for their wound count, and their shooting is almost laughable

[@Snuffalaffagas]

​@cyanidedreamer But his spell, though unlikely, CAN fail. I agree its incredibly good but the army falls apart without it to anything worth its points Manipulating battle tactics cant be prevented for the most part, you cant fail the roll for it. It just does

[@C.Satyr001]

His video from two days ago has such a list

[@Edoardo_Warhammer]

Ogre are a mess, gesus christ what happened at this faction . Why GW nerfed it so bad ?! They really hate it

[@KevinPotter-w5c]

Plus my ogres 👹 are suffering badly 😢

[@redsven7624]

I always find how much tournament players focus on the balance amusing, as they are the players least affected by it. They will always play the jank, swap armies or just try overcome the book. Whereas the players that don't have that depth of understanding or desire to work through it are more likely to just quit and they are mainly silent

[@seabrain1212]

@@redsven7624 Tournament players are the least affected by balancing? What?

[@Malisteen]

fyreslayers suffer hugely from being overly defined by all the stuff they don't do and don't have. No cavalry, no flyers, no wizards, no war machines. Their army is a half dozen variations on the same unit of slow, naked dwarves. they're just not varried enough to sustain a whole army, and their lore is written in a way where if the devs did add some of the variety they neef, half the player base would cry foul and refuse to use it. as cool as their concept is, it's just fundamentally not enough to sustain a whole faction, they should have been a couple of neat units in a larger & more diverse faction from the start. as is, they're an absolute disaster, and while future balance patches might bring the win rate up a bit, i don't see any fixes for the more fundamental underlying issues coming.

[@seabrain1212]

@@Malisteen You were correct until you started talking about what the fyreslayers players would and would not use. Fyreslayers players have been begging for cavalry, chariots, war machines, magma golems, anything for years. We would happily use any tool provided. Its just that GW keeps giving us the same tool with slightly different shaped heads over and over. Also, calling the faction a "disaster" has got to be hyperbolic. They're one-note model-wise, sure, but thats fine by me.

[@ce4879]

I think you mixed up Fyreslayer players with Dwarf players. Dwarf players rip out their beards if you suggest monsters or cavalry, Fyreslayer players do backflips at any possibility of new monsters, elementals, chariots, lava golems or even Vulcatrix blessed droth-duardin hybrids. 🔥 🐉 With us in the Realm of Fire I’m sure their time will come, they’re already stirring up fire walls to stop the Skaven, something is stirring beneath their holy volcano and Bael-Grimnir just got new mechanical limbs(Armies of Renown love a named character bodyguard)

[@Malisteen]

i don't know, I think thete's more dwarf player in the fs playerbase than you're letting on. Last time I suggested salamander cavalry or big flame spewing war machines as examples of ways to diversify the fs range on an aos forum the local fyreslayers told me i didn't understand the soul of the faction. That was around when i gave up on fs altogether - not that my opinion matters, since i don't & never would play them (death factions only), and i don't work for gw.

[@FlipityGibett]

Every season they should relegate the lowest win rate faction to the loser league. It would be better if GW informs everyone you can’t play the trash.

[@mattyno964]

CoS humans need help. All human CoS would be v near bottom.

[@benbiddiss336]

Ah! Finally good to see Ogors where they belong! 🤪 a good kick for SCE I’m particular the dragon bros and praetor combo and raptors, some adjustments to Tzeench and it’s anyone’s game!