"Factory Teams are Trying to SLOW THEM DOWN!" Ben Spies on the power of current day 450's...

[@jamesnelson6381]

problem for the factories is if they don't improve the bike the public doesn't need to upgrade. Maybe they will start spending on developing the stock suspension instead of trying to find more power.

[@OtisFlint]

I've never gone much faster from power gains, but i have gone a lot faster from suspension tuning.

[@microsoft790]

Finally going away from telescopic forks would be an actual improvement

[@no-namecrown5510]

That's easy - RaceTech.

[@jamesnelson6381]

reading comprehension is great. you should look into it @@no-namecrown5510

[@davidtucker5775]

@@microsoft790you peaked the nerd in me. Would you be more specific?

[@SosopChabot]

HEY, you should interview Colin Edward, 2 time WSBK champion and MotoGP factory racer. The guy has awesome stories and is a genuinely great guy…

[@ramilv739]

I agree, don't interview Colin Edwards

[@speedtrap420]

Nice to hear Ben's opinion on the bikes and displacement, I had a '98 YZ400F and that thing was a rocket on 17's!

[@northwestrider369]

“They can jump anything”. That’s why back in the early 00’s I wanted the 250 2 stroke. I remember the 426 I believe Yamaha was around and the 450’s were coming in but most local level riders still had 250 2 strokes. My friends had 125’s and I was on a crf230f trail bike. I felt like the 125’s were gutless and I wanted to chill in the corners and still make the jumps, so I went all the way up to the 250. My friends didn’t think it was a good idea but man it was fun. I was not a racer, so it did exactly what I wanted. My local outdoor track was completely flat, so it was built like a supercross track with lots of jumps. And lucky for me, most were table tops so you could ride a smaller bike or come up short and still not die.

[@vmcmark7578]

@3:30 ....... Gather round for MATH TIME! Mr. Ben was talking about the TOP SPEEDS reached at a certain track being approx. 366KPH & Mr. Jase was relating to his own personal fastest speed reached being 290KPH @2:50. Now students, please tell us the difference & your choices are; 1. 70 KPH or 2. 170 KPH as Mr. Jase has proclaimed @3:35

[@TheShift1313]

He made a mistake in the moment. No big deal

[@vmcmark7578]

@@TheShift1313 I can only assume that SARCASM & DRY HUMOR elude you, correct?

[@DavidJDiehl]

Im 230lbs fully geared and ride at 6700ft. 450 works just fine. 😂

[@CoreyGolphenee]

It’s 95 percent of the power but it’s completely linear and way lighter, by your logic just ride a CR500.

[@Fireballsocal]

Don't go getting our 450's watered down. Dunes and desert rider here and I always want more horsepower. I can't always use it but I want it. It was either dirtrider or cycle world magazine that wrote the line, "More power than I need and almost as much as I want".

[@Jake-bt3fc]

You can buy whatever bike you want. They’re talking about professional motocross. Not random people out in the sand dunes, lol.

[@Fireballsocal]

@@Jake-bt3fc My bike of choice for desert racing was always an mx bike with taller gearing, a steering stabilizer, and a bigger tank. My last new purchase was a '19 YZ450FX. That model has offroad parts but the mx motor. Gimme all the HP's.

[@youlooze2me]

I find it safer having tons of power in the desert or woods if you ride at high speeds. When something unexpected comes up i need the front to come off the ground and clear it. Not saying everyone needs that but i have saved myself many times in top gear when an unexpected washout comes up. pick the front up and hope you clear the gap.

[@neilbradley6571]

One of my fav racers I bought the gsxr that year

[@stalliondave9338]

When I was racing, I was on a 250. Tried my mates 450 with a pipe and had it running E85. It's was almost uncontrollable, it would want to loop out at any given opportunity. Then I understood how he was slow on a track, he was trying to ride a lightning bolt. I said nah I'm going back to the 250 where I can use the thing. 350 would be good now, I should look at one

[@johnnyskied]

Need a 350 and 200cc 4t class and allow 125s and 250s to race

[@user-se7vt5ow4e]

As an old guy I would love see the 4 strokes limited to 350cc and allow 300cc two strokes.

[@TheHypnotstCollector]

the 4 strokes would become extinct.

[@TheBlueDogMan]

@@TheHypnotstCollectornope. But it would even /level playing field. I’m all for it.

[@JROC734]

I was going to say, "fuck all that 350 4 stroke BS." The AMA allowed their racism of 2 stroke to almost genocide the bread, and now we're trying to evolve the 4 stroke with all these different cc's, because maybe throwing a 450cc 4 stroke limit in a class that 2 strokes had a 250cc limit might have been overdoing it a little bit, and 450cc 4 stroke might be more bike than your average rider can reasonably handle in a fun, productive manner, but it was a way to beat the 250 smokers. How about we allow for 350 2 strokes to race against the 450 4 strokes? Hell the Katoom 300SX is already potent enough, you give it an extra 50cc and it would have no issues hanging with a 450.

[@Mr10usdad]

300cc two strokes would bring more spectators back to the sport.

[@TheHypnotstCollector]

@@Mr10usdad and they would beat 450 4 strokes and they are quiter. And I think they can use 100:1 oil ratio with todays tech.

[@wrichards69]

You're a cool guy Ben, miss seeing you on 2 wheels. Enjoy family life mate.

[@jasonshade996]

Mate you should do Vlogs as well would love to see some day to day stuff and also riding etc

[@SMHman666]

That was an excellent story re Miller, lol. I've only just come across your channel and that's a sub!! Excellent content and enthusiasm.

[@CncObsession]

Hey Ben! My first year (1999) in the CMRA. We had rented Oak Hill and it was raining. You encouraged Gene Holiday & I to dry the track off with our trucks (it was still raining). You were 12 or so at the time. Rusty Allen, Mark Campise, Scotty Morrow, Gene & I were camping there. The 2 of us drove like idiots sliding all over the track and making a mess of it. Fun as hell. I raced a VFR750 that year ;-) Good to see you are healthy and doing well. John

[@peacefulwarrior4078]

Slow them down 🤔 Never was an issue with TWO STROKES ! BAAHRAAAP 😎💪🤙

[@TheBlueDogMan]

Have you ever ridden 500cc two strokes?

[@rhmerkin]

​@@TheBlueDogManThe 500 2t's were unrideable compared to the 250s which is why the class died out

[@joelatkinson2080]

Great video!!!

[@markcortis2348]

Ben seems like a cool chap, 👍

[@CncObsession]

He is and was as a kid too. His corner speeds on a 125 were insane as he passed you effortlessly. We were never in the same class but our classes would run the same race.

[@stevesmith756]

Us old lazy guys need and love the torque of a 450. Put that couch in 3rd and let her eat.

[@SuperOrcy]

i much prefer the 500 for that. the torque feels a lot more tractable and it doesn't have that brutal bite of power that the 450 has.

[@rhmerkin]

I often wonder if OEMs don't want SX and MX lap times posted cuz people would see lites running as fast as, or faster than the 450s. Obv they're posted in qualifiers, but I'd love to see lites laptimes toward the end of the race vs 450 lap times toward end of race

[@htchd1htchd149]

I've got a dr650 not much done but lightened her up alot and in the woods it's to much but like flat like trail no rocks or open road awesome my buddies 450 can catch me on the hard top but he flies on the rocky trails and stuff I think the biggest problem is gettin traction to that beast oh and the suspension it's pretty much unridavle in the woods lol

[@SMHman666]

htchd1 I'm the proud owner of the mighty dr too, lol. Such a simple and fun bike to play on but it has a mind of it's own when you push too hard. I agree about the suspension, haha.

[@psychosis7au]

Sports like MotoGP/Superbikes/F1 are awesome but also in some ways boring because the pilots could go faster but are limited in the race by their equipment/tyres/brakes/whatever. A good thing about the 450 class is the bikes (mostly) cant be blamed for holding the riders back. Off road racing is awesome because is they aren't babying tyres/brakes or outriding the engines etc. Its just an all out sprint and a good rider can get more out of the bikes because the bikes aren't the limit. If they drop down to 350's, pro riders will be outriding the engines, it'll force teams to spend tons of money tuning/replacing engines. The focus will become more about the equipment and therefore harder for the little guy with more skill but less money to win.

[@kgsxr7s085]

Some were i heard that tomac is the only guy that races 450 on the full power mode like every other rider detunes the bike not sure how true that is but i remember hearing it somewhere

[@microsoft790]

It was his mechanic saying that tomac used the most WOT time of anyone he’s personally worked with. People have this story all twisted up thinking that tomac is the only one to ever open the throttle on a 450, lol. Just look at some footage of js7 on his 450 he’s wide open all the time, more than tomac.

[@eriksforestryvision8751]

How long have restrictor plates been around on NASCAR!?? And they're driving around on a smooth track where every corner is the same as the lap before..

[@CoreyGolphenee]

2:27 in terms of motoGP, I can imagine that having to ride waaaayy past your tires and into the downforce has to be so fucking scary, that smoked how many people in 70s f1?

[@klaus5686]

Go on any forum and you're guaranteed to find people talking about how much more they like the more tame mapping for the 450's for regular racing. It's not enjoyable unless you really know what you're doing or you're out playing in the sand or something.

[@christopherevans4978]

I have a 350xcf it has plenty of power it is not slow at all. I ride desert and track so it is perfect for me

[@cwpitsenbarger3295]

Couldn't agree more. I have a kawi 450 and a rmz250. I ride woods most of the time and a 450 just sucks in the woods. And half the time its to much when I take it to the track. But i have a soft spot for small bores on the track. Aint nothing like a 125 rippin!

[@MRR-qv3bw]

Its the same way with us road racing bikes! I've know two guys personally that have had surgery to reduce arm pump AND WE ARENT LAUNCHING OUR BIKES 35-40ft in the air! I can only imagine the arm pump you guys must get because the few times I've rode a 450 on a dirt track was insane for me! The only experience I could honestly use to compare my experience to is me jumping on another bull but the bull has a set of bars with a throttle! Yes its obviously similar with the controls like my race bike but more comparable to riding a 1200lb bull than anything else I've ever thrown a leg over! And my kidneys hurt for at least 4 to 5 days which again goes back to being similar to bull riding!

[@MRR-qv3bw]

Instead of dropping cc's couldn't they make specific maps that each manufacturers have set parameters that forces everyone to tune their maps without passing a certain amount of HP?

[@TheHypnotstCollector]

minute 1:50, just before....you make a mistake..... go for it... Well, you gotta be smarter than the tool you're using

[@FLOYD-MAYWEATHER-TBE]

Does this channel actually do full long videos or are they just short clips?

[@TheShift1313]

There is another channel. Gypsy tales podcast i think

[@FLOYD-MAYWEATHER-TBE]

@@TheShift1313 ok thanks

[@TheShift1313]

@@FLOYD-MAYWEATHER-TBE kzbin.info/www/bejne/majKipWtmbOUeKMsi=zNAvH_13wyxsdXz- Thats the full 3hr one

[@jarredtremain4644]

I had experience on demo 01 cbr929 when first got my big class license. I jumped on and took off up road flatout in first and just after flat changing to 2nd almost 170km/h I rose a small creste and the bike got air around 200km/h and when it landed it tank slapped me so hard the wheels where leaving the ground side to side and through my feet off pegs and almost let go as I was back to my fingertips holding grips when the bike settled down. I ask shop owner what happened and he sent me back out on a 03 cbr954 with steering dampener. Was so sick. Was governed at 320kmh but could do 354 stock parts. That thing was a blur over 270km/h, I know I did just over 300 but things happen fast. I've got licenced 2018 te300 carby model that does 170km/h almost anywhere I think that's quick enough. Avagud1

[@los2133]

Nice story but no stock cbr929 would ever come close to 320 kmph not without some serious mods lol modern cbr1000s can barely touch that without exhaust intake tune etc

[@ps1hagrid823]

I really wish they made another class with 350s and 250 two stokes. It will allow 2-stokes back into a competitive level, encourage development of the current ones (God knows the yz250 needs it) and even the return of other manufacturers.

[@richardferrell4362]

People seem to forget that the factory teams are detuning or smoothing power delivery on bikes that make 75 horsepower with their factory motor package. They arent detuning a stock motor like normal people buy. Dont be a dork

[@travisbates6049]

I am trying woods racing on a dirt bike in 2024 even Thow I am use to a 450 on my ATV I think I will get a Yamaha YZ 250FX i just feel like a 450 on a dirt bike is just too much for woods racing I am 45 now 189 lbs and just like to race part time in the 45 + class

[@ramonsuarez1893]

Well, Josep Garcia won the enduro overall in a 250 four stroke.

[@davidciesielski8251]

I really disagree. Over 90% of 450 do not race! I weigh 240+ gear and live at 5000 ft. Making only 350s would suck ! I can't believe this is somehow good for tomorrow. Really guys.

[@adriangalvez5104]

It doesnt matter that mots dont race them, there still race bikes and if its better for the riders to race 350 than its better. Theres been a few times at a pro motocross race that a 250 riders would get faster lap times than the whole 450 class. Even the ktm 350 are already making 450 power so i dont see ur point.

[@davidciesielski8251]

@@adriangalvez5104 WOW!! In the real world, 9 out of 10 people don't weigh 160lbs and don't ride mainly on tracks! I' m not saying that I spend a lot of time wishing my bikes were faster, but for most of us a 350 would be a step backward/harder not as easy.

[@kurtheidelbach]

Yes, and a 350 would be just fine for you. Actually you a better rider as well.

[@davidciesielski8251]

@@kurtheidelbach I'm sure you correct, thanks! My mind is changed, again thank you so much.

[@wobblysauce]

Phillip Island is great... Even doing sub2 min on a learner bike is fast enough for a non racer.

[@chris929rr7]

Fkn hate my 450 to be honest. Recently picked up some good old 2-strokes again a YZ 125 and a YZ 250. I learned to ride on a YZ250 and see no need to change seeing as Yamaha still makes 2 strokes. Will probably sell the 450 soon. I just have no use for such a thing. I still maintain it and all that but not interested in a $4-5k bill if I grenade the motor and checking valves and all that sht just not interested. 125 and 250 2 strokes are the sweet spot for me and will never change. I’m 47 now and still love the sound smell and power band of a 2-stroke from the top 4 Japanese bikes.

[@halseyknox]

This is why they put the stops on the 500cc class back in the eighties and they were pushing 50hp give or take a few.......the modern factory 450f more than 70hp.....

[@dr.hugog.hackenbush9443]

The 500s push 60hp+, but there isnt a 450 anywhere making 70+. It simply cannot move enough air to make that amount of power. Even making 70 on a 500 takes Porting, pipe and reeds, or all of that in combination with running on methanol. Engine volume is your power limiter.

[@halseyknox]

@@dr.hugog.hackenbush9443 maybe not production bikes but factory bikes are easily pushing close to 80hp....

[@timw4369]

350 2 stroke should be the premiere class. 4 strokes are not for MX

[@Mike_HuntizWet]

They are now

[@vanhalenman60]

so i started on a crf300l full suspension and a ecu and i just had the chance to ride a 450 and i thought it was way too much, i ride my 300 hard as hell but when i ride a 450 its like damn i cant push this bike to 100 percent at all. My friends kinda joke and call me a pussy but i know damn well with almost all of them theyre not using the bike 100 percent unless theyre in niche situations like sand dunes or dry lake beds or like competition hill climbs.

[@kyletriesfitness500]

290 vs 366 is not 170kmh difference.. its 76kmh 😂

[@Brettod2781]

Quick Mafs 😂👍

[@Brad-py7sj]

Maths dude 😂

[@alexgonzalezMI]

Hard pass on riding on a street bike. I'm way too much of a control freak for that.

[@Snipeyou1]

Yeah bro, never on the street for me either.

[@glockdude5472]

I grew up racing motocross and I always knew I’d delete myself if i rode street.

[@douglasgrosch228]

stark varg power

[@gearhead366]

C'mon, guys. You both should know that speed is something you get used to. I've raced a variety of things, including motocross. The most, "Wow! This is flying" feeling I've experienced was with karts. Usually, the first laps on a new track. Or maybe right after moving up to a faster class. But that feeling would usually last less than 5 minutes. Then I was totally focused on gearing, handling adjustments, brake points, apexes, etc. Of course, I was young and bulletproof, too.

[@deelowe3]

It is, but when things go wrong, they go wrong so much more quickly. As someone who tracked both a 1000 and a 600, I prefer the 600 much more because it was so much more forgiving.

[@gearhead366]

@@deelowe3 oh, absolutely! That kinda scared me once I realized it. I could be going WAY faster than needed for a crash to be fatal, and I would be totally oblivious to the danger, unless I forced myself to consciously think about it.

[@deelowe3]

@@gearhead366 yep. To me, slower is more fun because you can take more risks. And for fans, slower is better because you see more on track action. Only the most insane racers are willing to yolo it on a Widowmaker. I mean Dale Earnhardt sr is a legend, but he paid a price for how he raced.

[@dennis-vl2nz]

Put a wiseco, or a. Wossner piston on a stock bike and an Fmf and you are. Good to go. Why we always here about making 67 with almost. 70 ponies?? Always scratching for more, why? Ride stock

[@cocopirata763]

450 are perfect bike yf you can handle hp buy aother bike

[@kurtheidelbach]

🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

[@mitchellgould7405]

love your maths, 290 PLUS 170.... thats 460kmh........

[@Cosmicsurfpro]

At 5000 feet a stock 450 is slow!!!!!

[@joshuapowers4623]

You're numbers aren't adding up for me. You said you did 290k & that there's another 170k left in a moto gp, that's 460k. But the current speed record is 366.1k, so to have an additional 170k, you couldn't have been doing more than 190ish.

[@dougharrison7844]

I'm sure it's already been pointed out, but math is not your strong suit.

[@MarissaTheMuse]

290 + 170 = 370kmh eh?

[@dr.hugog.hackenbush9443]

**listens in CR500**

[@chrispewkreme]

Unpopular opinion: this is what makes electric so exciting. They make insane torque and can be ridiculously fast, but you can “tune” them to provide whatever it is you want or need. I’ll personally never own a 450 in the near future as I know just how irresponsible that is.

[@DangerousSportsForSeniors]

I'm not getting on the back of anyone's bike. No thanks 😊

[@MathewsGuitarWorks]

I’m not trying to hear this “too fast” BS. I’m not opposed to racing anything else but I’m here to see the gladiators race. If they don’t want to ride or race the big fast bikes, race something else. As a fan, I want to see the biggest, fastest and gnarliest riders and bikes.

[@OtisFlint]

That often detracts from the quality of the racing. It's part of the reason MX was better to watch during the 2-stroke era.

[@MathewsGuitarWorks]

@@OtisFlint yea, I didn’t say we shouldn’t have a 350 class. But look at the Isle of Man TT. Thats nuts and everyone loves it. We’ve had some plenty good racing since 4t have come about. I started watching moto racing in 1988. I’ve seen lots of things come and go. I think my complaint is more with the ideology of the pissing and moaning about things being “dangerous”. It’s Motorcycle racing, of course it’s dangerous.

[@jamesadams2334]

Not me! I want to see 10 guys dicing for the lead on 350s rather than the top three 20 seconds apart on 450s.

[@MathewsGuitarWorks]

@@jamesadams2334 The higher the displacement of the motorcycles means the further the gap between the front runners?

[@microsoft790]

The bikes aren’t too fast as a whole they are too fast for the stadiums. I’ve talked a lot about moving away from stadiums and into actual raceways (crazy radical thought I know) If the tracks were a lot larger they could actually get on the gas and race instead of the parade they have been putting on the last 10 years of SX. The 450 guys just ride around and blip the throttle as they go off the jump face. boring! 250 class rocks.

[@trevorwilliams9260]

Dude ride a 350 or 250 then

[@motomikebuilder]

CR500.

[@lanwickum]

If they want less power, sell a 350! I want more power.

[@lost_marblesadv]

IMHO it's time for the big four to bring out eBikes. The Stark VARG has shown the world the future of the sport. Super smooth. Instant torque. And ultra quiet. What's not to like?

[@Mike_HuntizWet]

The lack of That “Smell”. The sound of the engine doesn’t just sound cool but it allows you to hear when someone’s behind you etc.

[@geofox9484]

Very boring

[@shippsdip]

450s are stupid fast now. Not worth it. I will buy a 250 over 450 anyday.