Fall of the 18th Dynasty 2 - Smenkhkare and/or Neferneferuaten

Sometimes when a nation tries to erase periods of its history, they succeed.
Look out for a new Armchair Egyptology video every now and then, sorry my upload schedule has been fecked lately.
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[@Sanisgillon]

Ok. But not enough credit is given to “in Egypt the writing was always in the wall”

[@ArmchairEgyptology]

Possibly this is all the credit it deserves.

[@2460-q1j]

I honestly don't think I'd wish my greatest enemy to dig themselves in the rabbithole that is the end of Amarna Period. I'm doing a seminar on the Amarna Period at Uni this semester and I already have a "murder map" with all the possibilities on my wall and it's slowly driving me insane. But if you choose to anyway, I recomend Belmonte's 2022 article, Nefertiti strikes back! at least for the genetics, she does not go too deep into evidence from tombs and stelae. Though I think after everything, if someone was to ask me who Tuts parents were, I'd just turn around and walk away 🙃 have fun!

[@ArmchairEgyptology]

Yeah, trying to look into it for a quick take in this video was already spinning me in circles!

[@Sanisgillon]

I appreciate you calling it a murder wall. That’s what I think of it as 😅

[@tux3506]

Yey a new video 🎉 :)

[@m313m70]

Smenkhkare is an interesting figure. It could be another name of Neferneferuaten or he could be a separate individual. In that case he could be either a younger brother of Akhenaten or his oldest son. The latter would explain his marriage to the oldest princess Meritaten. If he is Akhenaten's brother he and his first wife and full sister might have been the parents of Tutankhamun. Unfortunately not enough evidence is known to decide.

[@ArmchairEgyptology]

The large number of possibilities is very intriguing though!

[@luizsa8300]

YES!

[@december5930]

Well if anyone wants to know the truth I at least know Smenkhkare was Kiya who very briefly was coregant with akhenaten around year 13 and then died after she “did something” and Tiye, who always hated her found the opportunity to convince people she needed to go. Nefertiti was still his wife of course and the whole thing was some kind of thing for Akhenaten to share power with nefertiti, meritaten and Kiya. He had a sweet naïveté to him that caused trouble to others lol. Past life. One day I hope they find the evidence of Kiya being Smenkhkare (me) and I said it beforehand 😏😂

[@ArmchairEgyptology]

Well, I've certainly never seen Akhenaten be ascribed “a sweet naïveté” before.

[@pendragonsxskywalkers9518]

One or two person? Well, I'm constantly divided and back and forth 😂 I think that - since both shared their royal nomen - it was most likely one person, a woman, and most likely - Nefertiti. (I don't believe it was Meritaten, since the names of her and Pharaoh Neferneferuaten are listed separately on one object from Tut's tomb. Even if it wasn't Nefertiti, it coudn't be Meritaten.) HOWEVER, there's this mummy from KV 55 who might be Akhenaten... but if he is not, then it's most likely Smenkhare, which would mean he and Neferneferuaten had to be different beings. There's lot "ifs"... but as of today I believe that KV 55 is Akhenaten, hence S&N were likely one person, probably Nefertiti.

[@ArmchairEgyptology]

Our thinking is similar!

[@glennmaillard5972]

For mine, KV55 is almost certainly Akhenaten. The only evident evidence that points to another male is the anatomical argument. The latter is ultimately based on statistical analysis. When things happen during growth? How do teeth wear? The anatomical arguments sound very ‘scientific’, but are they? Statistical modelling appears to be what they are based on. The thing is, we don’t know much about aging in the period. Not in the general populace. Not among the elite. Lifestyle, diet, climate... so many unknowns as they relate to the small sample of human remains involved. How many ‘ages at death’ are known for the period? Not many, I’d suggest. Against this, we have magic bricks and a coffin with Akhenaten’s name removed. Then we have a mummy that had mummy bands on it. Weigall and Maspero, eye witnesses and among those who excavated the tomb, state unequivocally the bands had enough inscriptions on them to identify Akhenaten. The bands were stolen soon after, but the evidence of the mummy bands on Tut’s mummy (discovered many years after Weigall and Maspero talked of the KV55 mummy bands) tell us surely we can trust their testimony. I think we trust the ‘anatomists’ too much. Of course, there are scholars who have examined the body too and say there are signs the mummy was 30 years or more at death. A minority, yes, but this it not democracy and the rule of the majority, it’s the rules of actual evidence that matter. And the evidence, for me, is overwhelmingly in favour of the mummy being Akhenaten. It just makes sense. As to Smenkhkare being Neferneferuaten, I think it is more than reasonable. The only way I can fit in a male Smenkhkare, is to make him Nefertiti’s own son who was Coregent with his father for a very, very short time. A mother adopting her son’s (usually unique) throne name is kind of ‘psychologically’ possible, I guess. Though feelings ain’t facts. I see more problems with Smenkhkare as male than I do Smenkhkare as Nefertiti. The only evident reason to think Smenkhkare is male is the Meryre II depiction (Smenkhkare and Meritaten). One can see a male pharaoh. But one can also see a pharaoh (ruler), perhaps a Hatshetsup, and imagine Akhenaten dead and Neferneferuaten continuing her rapprochement with the Amunists (citing the evidence of the Pairi inscription). We know Amenophis became Akhenaten. We know Nefertiti became Neferneferuaten, so why can’t we imagine Neferneferuaten became Smenkhkare? The incompleteness of the Meryre II depiction makes one ask, why wasn’t it completed? If ‘he’ (that’s Smenkhkare) dies sometime shortly after Year 12, why wasn’t it completed by a minimal of Year 17 (of Akhenaten)? And why no paintings or inscriptions - not one! - to record Smenkhkare’s death and burial? And where is ‘his’ burial equipment and goods? The remains of his sarcophagus at Amarna? We have plenty of funerary stuff located in KV62 (Tut’s tomb) to know Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten Nefertiti was a real person who had real funerary stuff.

[@pendragonsxskywalkers9518]

@@glennmaillard5972 My thought exactly! The most evidence suggest KV 55 is Akenaten, and only strong contrargument bone age is not always accurate - sometimes may be delayed or fastest. (When I was 14 my bone age showed 17.) I admit that in past I was very interesting in theory that Smenkhare was Tut's father, but ultimately I caem to conclusion that there's really no proof, and if Smenkhare was a woman, then Akhenaten is only candidate to be father and KV 55. Yeah, I think that if Smekhkare was male and son of Nefertiti then "psychologically" argument may explain her strange decision to adopt his name. OR one of them was Akhenaten's chosen successor and when they died, the other decided to adopt same royal name (regardles of their kinship) to establish hemsleves as the rightful heir ahead of young Tut. I read arguments in favour and against Neferneferuaten being the same as Smenkhare, and I have to admit, that I'm going back and forth with it. There's strong argument that the depiction in tomb of Merire was likely made around 13 year of Akhenaten, while Nefertiti was "only" a Great Royal Wife until Year 16. It would mean that two would be different persons. BUT as depiction isn't dated, there's possibility that was made later than year 13, hence maybe even Akhenaten's death, so Nefertiti being Smenkhkare remains an option.

[@glennmaillard5972]

@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 I go ack and forth regards Smenkhkare is/isn’t Neferneferuaten. Yet. ‘Is’ always comes out on top. I feel that reuse of a throne name pivotal, why the need? The whole idea of throne names seem to have been to separate yourself from other pharaohs. Why else construct your own chosen name? Nomens were repeated names, not throne names. Why change the tradition?

[@pendragonsxskywalkers9518]

@@glennmaillard5972 I definitely agree. I think that I read about some Pharaoh who re-used of some royal name but it was few hundred years after Akhenaten. It shouldn't happened in his time. (On other and, many things from his time were very odd, so...) The simplest explenatation is that Smenkhare and Neferneferuaten were one person. And since Neferneferuaten was reffered as female, the logic conclusion is that Smenkhare was a woman, if they were the same person. But there that uncertain dating of that depiction about I wrote, and this is main thing why I have doubts. And it is true that no other (known) female Pharaoh ever took a Great Royal Wife as Smenkhkare did, however also there wasn't many female Pharaohs so it goes both side... I believe that some amazing discovery will be ultimately made. In 2010 everyone thought that Nefertiti disappeared in Year 12, but just few years later was found the proof she was alive in Year 16. So I hope one day will be found some inscription thanks to which family connections of Akhenaten's dynasty become clearer.

[@luxeford547]

I'd love to see yourself tied in a proper deep dive you cannot untangle yourself from! It's one hell of a knot, and as we know next to nothing on the subject my inner conspiracy theorist is twitching as we speak. The other day I chose "The Mummy: A Handbook of Egyptian Funerary Archaeology" by E.A. Wallis Budge as my lighthearted bedside reading, and he intermittently names the subject at point (second language English here. Pardon wording!) "Smenkhara" and "Sakara", which confused me to no end when I first read the book as a wee little man. But the book was revised in 1925 and he also states we should pity Echnaton because he was clearly deformed. You live as you learn, and you learn as you live.

[@ArmchairEgyptology]

I think I probably will, though I just know the moment I do they’ll publish a new opinion on who the mummies of Tut’s parents are and my theories will be destroyed!

[@luxeford547]

@@ArmchairEgyptology Isn't it fun with evolving technology and expertise constantly keeping us on our toes? I have this coffee table book on Tutankhamun where they say the inscriptions inside the gold canopic miniature coffins in some places clearly are inscribed with the name "Smenkhare" , which sounded pretty conclusive to teenage me. But that was years before I learned about gendered suffixes. Thank the gods/goddesses we don't have to battle neo pronouns! Future archaeologists are in for a major headache!

[@ArmchairEgyptology]

I consider it the duty of every generation to make as much nonsense as possible for future archaeologists to fight over!

[@amritsanders9243]

👍👍

[@AD-ep7dj]

It being the daughter of them makes the most sense to me. Even the name is a mix of her parents name and imagine her trying to keep the family alive after the priests obviously must have killed her parents. My opinion ofc

[@ArmchairEgyptology]

Who did the priests kill?!

[@loganosmolinski4446]

Boop