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Simple Sawmill Technique Maximizes Production

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Fall Line Ridge

Fall Line Ridge

2 жыл бұрын

Maximizing lumber production on a Wood Mizer LT15 sawmill.
Fall Line Ridge, pine, trees, chicken coop, homesteading, homestead, DIY, forestry, logs, mill.

Пікірлер: 148
@falllineridge
@falllineridge 2 жыл бұрын
Hey everyone, it looks like there's some kind of a scam going on and they're using this channel's name. I have NOT done any giveaways and have NOT contacted anyone about a giveaway! Please ignore these messages.
@MrFHLH
@MrFHLH 2 жыл бұрын
Yes I had one, but ignored it. Always someone up to no good.
@DDL2728
@DDL2728 2 жыл бұрын
Sad, sad world!!
@seanparchim9165
@seanparchim9165 2 жыл бұрын
It's funny I've been reporting these fake ass things after having it suggested by the channel owners at the end of video's,scammers try everything to steal people's money the have worked hard for screw Em ✌️ Napa California
@tomsommer54
@tomsommer54 2 жыл бұрын
It’s turned into a scam world no days. Sorry that happened to you. My wife just this morning got a message from what was supposed to be her sister saying she was in trouble and needed her to send her $300 to some cash app. They didn’t fool us. That’s what the world has come to though.
@exotictones1054
@exotictones1054 2 жыл бұрын
Really a sick n sad world to live in today.n then the scammers go free.
@kaniapermadani4443
@kaniapermadani4443 12 күн бұрын
Excellent! I learned something new and interesting. The way you handle those massive logs is impressive. The footage is crystal clear. I can't wait for the next video. Continue sharing these fantastic videos!
@richardthornhill4630
@richardthornhill4630 2 жыл бұрын
Glad you moved the mill under the shed into the shade. Will be a good chicken coop. Clever sawing, reducing steps.
@henrymorgan3982
@henrymorgan3982 2 жыл бұрын
Very educational. I like the camera angles. They show thought and creativity. Good job all around. Have a Great Weekend!
@falllineridge
@falllineridge 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Henry!
@DDL2728
@DDL2728 2 жыл бұрын
Your videos are so interesting & enjoyable!! And, you move your camera for so many different angles!! Great job! Can't wait to see the coop. We spent most of the day at our son's helping cut grass, play with Grands, & repair a couple of boards on his chicken coop. Great day - just very hot!! Thanks for another great video. God bless you and your family!!
@craig2157
@craig2157 2 жыл бұрын
There isn't a sawyer out there that hasn't hit a roller, if there is your turn is just a few logs away! I was surprised you were able to continue with the same blade. The grapple is nice for the yard but watching you around the mill and grabbing the cut boards off is difficult. I'm cutting larger logs, sometimes 24" plus and the cants are very large, you have to remove one to cut the other. I have a similar tractor but with forks and it's easy to load and unload the mill. Also using pallets to move around and sticker the cut boards is time saving. I like the trick of standing the board and cutting the wayne against the cant, learn something most times I watch you.
@grazynazambeanie5963
@grazynazambeanie5963 Жыл бұрын
I root for the little guys , but you just can't beat a Wood-Mizer
@WoodworkingTop535
@WoodworkingTop535 Ай бұрын
Looking at the wood saw is so mesmerizing
@charlesvaughn5055
@charlesvaughn5055 2 жыл бұрын
enjoyed the video have a great week looking forward to seeing the chicken coop
@johnmorgan455
@johnmorgan455 2 жыл бұрын
After more then 76 years, I don't believe I have ever heard any one complain "I wish I would have made that a little smaller."
@twc-projects
@twc-projects 2 жыл бұрын
Nice job. You always make milling look so easy. Inspires me to get back out on my mill. Having yours under cover now is real nice too. I bet you're loving that. I'll eventually get there, but until then, I''ll keep living vicariously through your videos. Keep up the great work.
@buddyreed2623
@buddyreed2623 2 жыл бұрын
Still watching. This time I did not have a question. Have good days!
@brucewatson8451
@brucewatson8451 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video. I've been milling for about two months now with a WM HM126. Besides the fact that it is interesting, technically challenging, and sometimes a good workout, I think it's just plain fun. And my grandson, 7, really likes running the mill. Thanks from Western WA. Bruce
@allanpeters4403
@allanpeters4403 2 жыл бұрын
Love all your videos - informative and entertaining.
@139sjh
@139sjh 2 жыл бұрын
Hello from Western Australia :-)
@Southernson-dy5nq
@Southernson-dy5nq 2 жыл бұрын
Great job, enjoy watching all your videos.
@mizerman5568
@mizerman5568 2 жыл бұрын
Nice job on that overhead roof, something I need to get up over mine. Here in the Missouri ozarks I build everything out of eastern red cedar, prefer it green when building.
@Z-Bart
@Z-Bart 2 жыл бұрын
Good tip. I shall try that on some Red Pine for my shed.
@rickutley931
@rickutley931 Жыл бұрын
You have become a really good sawyer, I've been following you for quite a while.
@wilsonfrye9987
@wilsonfrye9987 2 жыл бұрын
As you know, any log can be cut in a number of ways. If you like a method and find it suits you, that’s a fine way to cut. However, in general, a square cant defined by the small end of a straight log will maximize production, and jacking a tapered log to get a horizontal pith will maximize quality of the lumber. Eg, in the case of that tapered log with the 12 inch small end, a square 8x8 with 4 tapered two inch slabs should yield 5 2x6s and a 2x2 from the cant and four waned (shorter if you choose to cut off waned ends) 2x6s from the slabs removed while making the cant. That’s 9 2x6s and a 2x2. But that results in two boards having the soft pith on their surfaces. A 10x6 cant allows cutting the 2x material with the pith within the center 2x. The cant will still make 5 2x6s, but you’ll likely only get two quality 2x6s from the slabs removed while creating the cant. Maximizing production includes considering “production of what?” and whether manipulating the log for improving quality reduces productivity. Your approach is efficient for dealing with the slabs and reduces handling them. It sure deserves consideration in some cases. I like the way you present your projects in your videos.
@MrFHLH
@MrFHLH 2 жыл бұрын
Very nice to have your own mill and some wood to go with it, then you can make what you want, including a chicken cope. Have fun.
@vernebates3000
@vernebates3000 Ай бұрын
Makes me appreciate
@larryconley9438
@larryconley9438 2 жыл бұрын
Nicely done,keep up the good job
@richvail7551
@richvail7551 2 жыл бұрын
I like your different way of edging the boards during production. Looks like it helps shorten cutting times, I’m going to use that one. There is 1 advantage I found from edging my boards later and that it helps me get more cuts per blade. I use my blades until my regular cuts are not possible and then later on after I’ve built up my cuts that need edging pile I take my duller blade and us it again to edge my boards. It’s less work for the dull blade and I get a bit more life out of the blades before I need too get them resharpened. 🤷‍♂️
@catgynt9148
@catgynt9148 2 жыл бұрын
It’s nice to see that your mill is under roof and not as susceptible to rain and possibly snow. Thanks for sharing this video of your journey. Wishing you and your family a blessed week, gentle weather and restful evenings. Peace brother.
@brendamilner9066
@brendamilner9066 2 жыл бұрын
Love your videos.
@toughluck6145
@toughluck6145 2 жыл бұрын
best carpenter bee weapon...badminton racket
@stigmartinrnning6751
@stigmartinrnning6751 2 жыл бұрын
Another great vid 👍👍
@davidkilbourne5422
@davidkilbourne5422 2 жыл бұрын
I like your videos and look forward to seeing them! I'm wanting a sawmill so bad. but of course I't's hard for me! Those hogs are growing and some good food there. Hope you have a nice week ahead!
@falllineridge
@falllineridge 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks, David! Yes, the hogs are growing into some great meals right now.
@cathybenson5119
@cathybenson5119 2 жыл бұрын
Hello from Queensland Australia 🇦🇺
@ronwhite36
@ronwhite36 2 жыл бұрын
Great video, Infor is great!
@patriots1needed
@patriots1needed 2 жыл бұрын
Well done!
@ronwhite36
@ronwhite36 2 жыл бұрын
Another great video!
@falllineridge
@falllineridge 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching, Ron!
@cactuskiwi4218
@cactuskiwi4218 2 жыл бұрын
Love the videos brother
@Sawmill-indonesia
@Sawmill-indonesia 2 жыл бұрын
very extraordinary healthy and successful greetings always from Indonesian wood workers
@scorpio2686
@scorpio2686 2 жыл бұрын
Love your content. Gonna be patient until the chicken coupe vid comes on. Keep them coming brother.
@falllineridge
@falllineridge 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Victor!
@miguelfreytes3498
@miguelfreytes3498 4 ай бұрын
You’re make good jobs explain very good ❤❤
@johntillotson4254
@johntillotson4254 5 ай бұрын
Thx for sharing
@JOHNMORIN100
@JOHNMORIN100 2 жыл бұрын
Hey THAT WAS NEAT 100 POINTS John M in Milo, Maine
@fricknjeep
@fricknjeep 2 жыл бұрын
hi there nice sawing john
@marknunya3035
@marknunya3035 2 жыл бұрын
My heart stopped as you came closer to your dog whew 😅 bit scary glad you caught it. I'd sure hate to see what happens when you do. As always good luck and God Bless.
@falllineridge
@falllineridge 2 жыл бұрын
It was total luck. I was not watching it. When the blade hits a stop, it's the worst sound ever, plus a destroyed blade.
@YoutubeVideoChainsaw
@YoutubeVideoChainsaw 2 жыл бұрын
greetings from Indonesian wood workers boss🤝
@monnhautaynguyen5678
@monnhautaynguyen5678 2 жыл бұрын
👏👏👏👏👍💯. Thanks you
@jaymolck31
@jaymolck31 2 жыл бұрын
Smart trick, thanks
@jaymolck31
@jaymolck31 2 жыл бұрын
On board cutting not the scam. Lol
@user-rv4iq6hf7r
@user-rv4iq6hf7r 2 жыл бұрын
Think you sooo match 😆😆✨
@smokeybailey3080
@smokeybailey3080 10 ай бұрын
Enjoyed your video. I noticed the sign Taylor made club I know a man whose business name was taylor made wondered if there is a connection. Thanks for the good videos
@brucewelty7684
@brucewelty7684 2 жыл бұрын
I wish we were closer together. Some of those 1/4 and 1/2 inch throw-aways would be great for my toy projects.
@mcpiddler1135
@mcpiddler1135 2 жыл бұрын
Where might you be Mr. Welty? I have a mill in central Alabama and generate some thins also.
@brucewelty7684
@brucewelty7684 9 ай бұрын
@@mcpiddler1135 I never got notification of your comment! I am in central Florida. There is a new mill really close to me. I intend to go see them between Thanksgiving and Christmas.
@David-fv7zg
@David-fv7zg 2 жыл бұрын
fantastic idea using the cant as a wedge, I wish I would have thought about this last week....LOL. Have you considered placing your mill in through the other end, so it blown the sawdust on the outside "wall"? It is easier to clean up, and wont get on your other equipment, in your humidity, that sawust will attract moisture and eventual rust.
@falllineridge
@falllineridge 2 жыл бұрын
You're not the first to mention that. Not sure if it would work in this shed or not.
@user-rv4iq6hf7r
@user-rv4iq6hf7r 2 жыл бұрын
انا احب جداً جداً جداً اتفرج في مقاطعك لانها تعجبني ولاكن لا افهم ما تقول كثيرا ولاكني احاول اقرا الترجمه علاماتي في الانجليزيه جيده وليست ممتازه شكراً جزيلا على ما تقدمة انت تستاهل like 👍 😊
@robertvonbehr6843
@robertvonbehr6843 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, the camera angles are nice indeed.
@georgeprice9882
@georgeprice9882 2 жыл бұрын
Tennis racquet for them bees. Works great cuts them into pieces
@craigmooring2091
@craigmooring2091 2 жыл бұрын
I've been thinking that many of those off-cut slabs are thick enough to make good, sort of natural roosts inside the coop.
@user-rv4iq6hf7r
@user-rv4iq6hf7r 2 жыл бұрын
Good working
@linzierogers5024
@linzierogers5024 2 жыл бұрын
Woodland Mills has a small attachment that stops the blade from hitting the side supports.
@j.r.576
@j.r.576 Жыл бұрын
Yeah, it works great when you remember to swing it in front of the blade lol 😂
@justintime2277
@justintime2277 2 жыл бұрын
👍FROM CADILLAC MICHIGAN
@junethomas5322
@junethomas5322 2 жыл бұрын
My brother and I love watching you. I would like to see you end your you tubes with GOD BLESS.
@Dingbat217
@Dingbat217 2 жыл бұрын
When you have logs that taper a lot do you ever jack up one end to get the centre of the log level with the bed or is that not really worth the hassle?
@deanbarr5740
@deanbarr5740 2 жыл бұрын
I believe you'll be fine using green lumber for the coop. Yeah, it'll shrink some, but even dried lumber shrinks. Doesn't matter. You can go to Lowe's or Home Depot and buy kiln dried lumber and in time it shrinks too.
@rickswanberg4995
@rickswanberg4995 10 ай бұрын
Not to mention that the lumber from Lowe's or HD will look like hockey sticks.
@09FLTRMM77
@09FLTRMM77 2 жыл бұрын
MM77 Approved 👍🏼👍🏼
@tinydancer7426
@tinydancer7426 2 жыл бұрын
I like the homemade swatter.
@kennycolson4813
@kennycolson4813 2 жыл бұрын
I’m a neighbor. Everyone around us has a bee swatter. And yes, we keep count! LOL
@tinydancer7426
@tinydancer7426 2 жыл бұрын
@@kennycolson4813 Yeah, I have a swatter .... only I don't discriminate in what I swat with it. lol I am an equal opportunity swatter. When he was a little guy, my son called it a "fly whipper".
@buck3409
@buck3409 2 жыл бұрын
Taylor Made Club. I'm guessing that is a twist on Taylor Made golf clubs and made in Taylor County
@lectro88
@lectro88 Жыл бұрын
I listed this in a reply somewhere.. you can use saw dust in chicken coop, then for fertilizer later.
@JohnThomas-gj2zg
@JohnThomas-gj2zg 2 жыл бұрын
Doing a great job by make things that you need out of the tree's right off of your land and that is what I want to do when the time is right for me to buy the land that I want ..... what state are you in that let's you do that ??
@tomnovak7731
@tomnovak7731 11 ай бұрын
I like the way you edged the flitches while processing the main cant. My only suggestion for improvement using your method is to open that second face at 8" (+ a kerf) above the deck. This would leave you the same 6" cant and your 2x6 out of that flitch will have less wane. It would also eliminate the cut that sized your cant. Hope you don't trash your mill with that brush grapple.
@exotictones1054
@exotictones1054 2 жыл бұрын
Man it's been awhile.
@tomharrington1393
@tomharrington1393 2 жыл бұрын
👍👍
@raygudding1969
@raygudding1969 2 жыл бұрын
I enjoy your videos and have learned quit bit from them, I have a Timbery M100 made by WoodMizer. I put a 3'X2' chalkboard in my saw shed I copy my cut list to it as I cut what I need and mark it off.
@falllineridge
@falllineridge 2 жыл бұрын
Smart idea!
@somethinburnin
@somethinburnin Жыл бұрын
Timbery M100 is where the Woodmizer LX25 comes from. I have the LX25. Nice little mill!!!
@benrudman3917
@benrudman3917 2 жыл бұрын
Lucky I saw it coming and was sure you hit it! What blades are you running when you saw pine? You get nice straight cuts. The knotty stuff I saw gives me a hell of a hard time
@falllineridge
@falllineridge 2 жыл бұрын
They're the standard WM Doublehard 10 degree. Great blades!
@flowerstone
@flowerstone 2 жыл бұрын
Most houses are built with green lumber so you should be fine on your coop. 🙂
@thebradleysoncatbirdhill6849
@thebradleysoncatbirdhill6849 2 жыл бұрын
Another great video, Wes! I continue to take notes when you are saw milling! I had to chuckle when you were chasing the carpenter bee around. I know they are not aggressive, but I'm sitting here watching your video on my phone with my right hand looking like it belongs to Elmer Fudd after Bugs Bunny hit it with a hammer 🤣🤣🤣 Got multiple stings on the back of my right hand yesterday from wasps. It's about this time every year here in southeastern Pennsylvania that the stinging insects get super aggressive. Are you having that down your way? Take great care and God bless! 🙏
@falllineridge
@falllineridge 2 жыл бұрын
I always have to watch out for wasps! The hotter it is, the madder they get.
@srf2112
@srf2112 Жыл бұрын
Do you have to kiln dry all your lumber as well or just let it dry naturally?
@genecarr4568
@genecarr4568 2 жыл бұрын
Homemade carpenter bee traps work really good at reducing the bee population. You may want to consider using your "nasty" mixture to paint the exposed wood in your shed. While the bees have no problem with store bought treated lumber, they will not like your homemade treatment. Oh, as long as the oil is filtered to remove particles prior to mixing with the fuel, the mixture can be applied with a brush or a commercial hand pump sprayer (which is a lot easier and faster. Good luck with the carpenter bees, I have been fighting them for years. Between the bees and woodpeckers my deck has been destroyed.
@eitantal726
@eitantal726 Жыл бұрын
I noticed something: No logstops once you're done squaring your log. Is this possible only with long logs?
@chrismoss9683
@chrismoss9683 2 жыл бұрын
Just curious..how is the kiln doing?
@Oper8or
@Oper8or Жыл бұрын
I don't exactly follow all the terms used in milling. Not to mention how the heck you got extra 2x6 out of those two extra pieces. Probably something I'd have to get instructed on but I'm sure I'd get it. Now just to talk the wife into maybe getting one within the next year.
@jimwilloughby
@jimwilloughby 2 жыл бұрын
After cutting 2 slabs off a log you are left with a cant ( is that the right term?) , with 2 flat sides and 2 with bark > Does it make a difference which side you cut next, and if so , how do you make that decision?
@falllineridge
@falllineridge 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, that's the right term. It really doesn't matter which side gets cut next, as far as I know.
@dennismutz8221
@dennismutz8221 Жыл бұрын
Just about everyone that owns a home mill, has hit the log stop at some point. Aggravating, but it happens.
@madsciencegary3830
@madsciencegary3830 2 жыл бұрын
I see the sawdust going into the middle of the shed from the sawmill. Is there a reason not to turn the mill around so that the sawdust goes outside? It may be that there is a reason not to load and unload from the other side. I am particularly interested because my LT 15W is supposed to arrive in about a month (after 1 1/2 years of waiting) and if I put it in the mill shed the way I want it, it would load and unload from the opposite side; the side the sawdust comes out. I'll use the tractor and grapple to load/unload, just as you do. If I turn it the other way, it will shoot the sawdust into my equipment barn.
@Green_Heart_Family_Farm
@Green_Heart_Family_Farm 2 жыл бұрын
The mill is designed for logs to be loaded opposite from the direction the sawdust exits; even if it doesn't include a hydraulic loading system, the log stops being on one side requires loading logs from the opposite side to minimize the chance of the log rolling off during loading.
@thomashester739
@thomashester739 2 жыл бұрын
Co-op sells a product to put on lumber that kills carpenter bees if they bore into the wood
@Dougie-ex1ov
@Dougie-ex1ov 4 ай бұрын
Does no one avoid the pith?
@bnwo
@bnwo 2 жыл бұрын
Can all that saw dust on the ground be used for something or do you just leave it there?
@falllineridge
@falllineridge 2 жыл бұрын
I don't have a use for it. Once it piles up I'll move it to the woods probably.
@lectro88
@lectro88 Жыл бұрын
can use saw dust in chicken coop.
@robertkayler6292
@robertkayler6292 Жыл бұрын
Woodland Mills put a guard on their sawmills that keep you from cutting the log stops and killing your blade.
@user-rv4iq6hf7r
@user-rv4iq6hf7r 2 жыл бұрын
اعتقد لازم ترتدي قفازات صح ؟ 🧤
@tonygrimes13
@tonygrimes13 2 жыл бұрын
A Like & A Comment For The Algorithm.
@davidhuffine5084
@davidhuffine5084 Жыл бұрын
Nathan .that guy called you a hillbilly . I always thought you was a country boy .
@robertdemayo8620
@robertdemayo8620 2 жыл бұрын
I read a book awhile back , if u use all green wood , it all shrinks together … But has to be covered from the sun …. For what’s it’s worth …… 🇺🇸
@jimcurrier3922
@jimcurrier3922 11 ай бұрын
I hollered stop, but you didn't pay attention to me!
@lancel6948
@lancel6948 2 жыл бұрын
I'm sure you answered this at least 17 dozen times, but why do you mill true dimensions instead of similar dimensions of a mill yard for more sticks? Thanks
@falllineridge
@falllineridge 2 жыл бұрын
Looks way cooler.
@lectro88
@lectro88 Жыл бұрын
a few more reasons to cut true dimensional. True 2x4, 2x6, 1x4, 1x6.. etc... Are much stronger than store bought even after they dry and shrink. Also when building adding and subtracting you use full numbers not.... and a 1/2 (some won't understand) a store bought 2x4 is 1-1-1/2" x 3-1/2" 3rd reason, because "we can" with our own mill. just because we want to.
@sydmarty1
@sydmarty1 2 жыл бұрын
Save your oil when you change oil on your equipment and stand posts in the bucket to treat them for when you need to bury them in the ground. Let the oil dry before you use them.
@user-lr3fh2jb8q
@user-lr3fh2jb8q Жыл бұрын
Балда
@ryanlawley5960
@ryanlawley5960 2 жыл бұрын
Do you sharpen your own blades? If so, maybe you could do a video.
@tinydancer7426
@tinydancer7426 2 жыл бұрын
Yes he dies and he has made a video showing how the machine works.
@falllineridge
@falllineridge 2 жыл бұрын
I used to, but I sold my sharpener and setter. It's just too much of a hassle. Easier to send them back to WM...plus they do it right.
@tinydancer7426
@tinydancer7426 2 жыл бұрын
@@falllineridge Ah-ha! I thought you enjoyed doing your own sharpening.
@craigsudman4556
@craigsudman4556 2 жыл бұрын
I think I remember someone saying that there are two types of people: The first type are folks who have hit their log stops and the second type are folks who have not hit their logs stop yet. Great video Wes thumbs up. BTW how do you notify folks who have won a give away from your channel? I got a message the other day, presumably from you, but I'm just not sure.
@falllineridge
@falllineridge 2 жыл бұрын
Hey Craig, that was NOT me. Please ignore that! Sounds like a scam. Also, that was not the first time on the log stops. Probably won't be the last.
@falllineridge
@falllineridge 2 жыл бұрын
Craig, would you mind forwarding the message you got to falllineridge@gmail.com? Thanks!
@craigsudman4556
@craigsudman4556 2 жыл бұрын
@@falllineridge Will co.
@wauhawk
@wauhawk 2 жыл бұрын
Drying lumber is a pretty modern trend actually. Like 100 years ago I don't think they were taking the time to dry anything.
@DustyRanch
@DustyRanch 2 жыл бұрын
I think your right about that. The amazing part is many house and buildings built in that era are still quite functional. Houses built on stones instead of a foundation are still standing in my neck of the woods. A good friend of mine just showed me his great grandfather‘s house over 170 years old built on cornerstones and with some remodeling it could be a livable.
@srf2112
@srf2112 Жыл бұрын
From your lumber list it sounds like you're building a chickendominium with a garage.
@user-du6cj6nu5u
@user-du6cj6nu5u Жыл бұрын
What do you know an IKEA chicken coop.
@charlessessions7293
@charlessessions7293 2 жыл бұрын
Taylor Made Club ?
@charlessessions7293
@charlessessions7293 2 жыл бұрын
U do custom Taylor maid stuff 😉
@gotti5472
@gotti5472 2 жыл бұрын
Can you tell me the name brand of your grapple
@falllineridge
@falllineridge 2 жыл бұрын
Construction Attachments brand. Mine is the 60"
@daleadkins2448
@daleadkins2448 2 жыл бұрын
Two tips. One, Borax soap and water in a bean sprayer stops wood bees. Two, put a LOT of bracing between your joists to prevent twisting and warping.
@savonjaakari412
@savonjaakari412 5 ай бұрын
In Finland we burn those kind of rotten and curly logs.
@Hollywood5453
@Hollywood5453 2 жыл бұрын
Catdaddy, think about this. Go buy a weed burner and sho shugi bon those boards after they dry. I did a pole barn on my property 20 years ago on pines I cut down, and didn’t cut them to lumber like you but I burnt the piss out of them and coated them before putting in the ground. I can honestly say I’m glad an old timer made me think about it .... no rot, no bugs, no weather damage 20 years and counting
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