Fallout Talk - Did Bethesda Ruin FEV?

Did Bethesda ruin FEV?
/ discord
The Fallout series FEV, a mutagen capable of rapidly transforming the body into something else. Most commonly, it has been connected to the Super Mutants, but other creatures have risen from its green sludge. It's a very important part of the Fallout franchise.
FEV originally appeared in Fallout 1 and has been in most other games since then becoming an etabshlied part of the Fallout-verse. Plot central to the first game and relevant, in some form, in most others.
With differing developers after the buyout, how much has Bethesda changed the ghouls that were originally developed by Black Isle.
Let's look at just how much FEV has changed.
0:00 Introduction
0:26 Lore Break
5:47 Quantity and "Value"
9:27 Utilization
11:21 Wrap up

[@GamesTwiceOver]

discord.com/invite/ac3FtEKuGa

[@MrDj232]

The Oasis in Fallout 3 was the result of FEV at Mariposa splicing together a human and plant.

[@mrbonjangle]

Velt-tec strikes me as an institute that doesn’t care what a general orders and would still secretly keep the FEV, and imo that would have been the better way to retcon it.

[@mrbonjangle]

Also is 76 supposed to be cannon? I thought it was all just for fun.

[@66bloodmoon]

yes they did , They don't know how to make new or anything interesting.

[@pseudodidact3956]

I agree. I’m tired of the same old super mutants and FEV holotapes that say Day 1: “We’re making super soldiers =D” Day 2: “It went wrong =(” That’s basically every scientists holotape in regards to FEV.

[@lucasstr5653]

Every holotape period

[@silverbloodborne9495]

I'm just wait for one holotape to say Day 1 we make super soilders Day 2 it fucking worked Day 3 they can't survive nukes ..... We stuck in this bunker till we die and the fev was upstairs so it get destroyed.

[@chaserseven2886]

i mean that is the whole reason why it was made

[@TheSmashua]

Lol imagine that? All the scientists who's goal was to use FEV to make super soldiers talked about using FEV to make super soldiers?? No way!

[@insert_apathetic6159]

@@lucasstr5653 Day One: this [insert goal here] is going very well. Day Two: Oh no [Insert bad thing here] happened to [insert goal here] Day Three: I think we got awa-[insert scream here]

[@MrPoogly]

They ruined supermutants, they're just green bandits now

[@mannamoth918]

Green Bandits that are Bullet Sponges

[@NymbusCumulo928]

Are you referring to 76? Because 4 did a fair bit with Super Mutant lore.

[@johninenglish8236]

​@@NymbusCumulo928 in effect. Lore is a lazy mans story. No super mutant settlement. No dialogues except with strong. No quests. Just orcs with guns.

[@thebigyes8482]

I feel like Bethesda’s biggest issue with fallout is that they feel this weird need to bring everything back for every entry and preserve the canonical status quo like it’s a Saturday morning cartoon. FEV? Check. Deathclaws? Check. Brotherhood of steel? Check. I think it’s boring and they should just explore other stories.

[@RetryOfHealGuy]

What? What do you mean you don't like Deathclaws, Super Mutants, Radscorpions, BoS again? - Bethethic Storywriter

[@The_Menace_567]

They gotta bring the enclave back.

[@VincentGonzalezVeg]

What about raccoons? They're already bigger than basketballs & closer to 3 feet when they flare their hairs We also have hogs

[@SHDW-nf2ki]

I can live with Deathclaws since they can breed and their unimaginably dangerous of course they'd become an apex predator. I do agree their overused and Bethesda will never make an area as genuinely scary as Quarry Junction.

[@Steelion69]

Emil's idea of "exploring other stories" is to make another Saturday morning cartoon about forced emotional response featuring good guy BoS, its the type of greasy baiting tactics so that smoothbrains and reviewers praise Emil's rubbish stories and misses the whole point that Fallout is about the political and moral dynamics of a post-Nuclear society, combined with historical reflection about humanity and war - it's not about a father looking for their son, giant plasma weapons, Skyrim Dragons, a shittier Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep knockoff or a giant robot glassing Nazi expies.

[@drekbleh7081]

Creatures and strangeness of wild imaginations, what are they created by? Fallout 1: " FEV" Fallout 2: "FEV and mutation" Fallout 3: "FEV and mutation" Fallout new vegas: "FEV and mutations is old lore and are barely relevant to current events." Fallout 4: "FEV and mutation"

[@adarus9941]

Fallout 76: “FEV and Mutation.” However, they did add one returning FEV creature and Actual new FEV Created creatures.

[@Skellotronix]

@@adarus9941 Also FO76 takes place just 24 years after the war, where pre war inspiration is most heavy (Whitesprongs for example)

[@mr-fatji1491]

I love how you can see the viruses effects 200 years after the war I just wish Bethesda would handle it a bit better

[@adarus9941]

As someone who started with 3 and forwards and having researched Lore of 1 and 2, I will say that a problem with Bethesda is that while they can offer up the explanation for why Super Mutants were in those games, at the same time it’s a problem of them looking for Loopholes in the lore for something to fit like saying “Oh there was never any mention that this didn’t happen, therefore it works with what we want to establish and doesn’t break lore.” Like the Brotherhood having a chapter in Appalachia, as a Huge Brotherhood Fan I love having them but at the same time it was rather ridiculous.

[@Slender_Man_186]

I find the idea that the Brotherhood is in the east at all to be off, they were dying out even before Fallout 2.

[@adarus9941]

@@Slender_Man_186 The idea here was that the Brotherhood at least back East with this new lore was more open to recruitment and just eventually stopped, so the East Coast Out gunned the West by a wide Margin, they got wiped out anyway of course, but essentially the Brotherhood’s ways of Isolating themselves is what eventually will kill them.

[@markshaw270]

Unless you have played 1 and 2 don't speak as if you know everything about them.

[@unsubme2157]

@@Slender_Man_186 what are you talking about fo76 is the earliest game on the timeline.

[@unsubme2157]

Why was it ridiculous? Explain yourself?

[@vulkanofnocturne]

You don't even need more sources of FEV in the lore to justify Superr Mutants in other games. The mutant tribes can just travel around looking for food. Itinerant Supermutant tribes would be a good bit of wolrdbuilding too

[@Ronnie-Bagpipe]

I mean I guess but they cant reproduce so any tribes would probably die off slowly, and they eat people so they probably wouldn't need to go far to find food

[@GrandArchPriestOfTheAlgorithm]

So what New Vegas did.

[@Slender_Man_186]

So like NV, where the super mutants we encounter are the ones left over from Fallout 1 and 2.

[@zeallust8542]

@@GrandArchPriestOfTheAlgorithm Yes, exactly.

[@zeallust8542]

@@Slender_Man_186 Yep, that would be the best way to go about it. Too late for that now though.

[@fubuki2269]

I wouldn't mind the overuse of FEV so much if it was actually used to create many different types of mutants for the player to interact with. Evolution isn't a straight linear path, so there should be something other than the super mutants.

[@themather1]

There's a bunch of things it creates other than super mutants. Centaurs, floaters, snallygasters, Grafton monsters. Honestly, biggest issue is just that mostly just background lore that is ignored by the overarching story.

[@ArutaretiI]

What I see when I look back to the time I played the original Fallout game for the first time is that super mutants were meant to be this terrifying end game threat and they did a pretty good job portraying them like that. Fallout 2 didn't have many of them, because they introduced a new big bad in the form of the Enclave, and after all super mutants were defeated in the last game so it made no sense for them to be a threat anymore. In the Bethesda games, they really feel just like another kind of raiders and the games would be almost exactly the same without them, in fact, they would make more sense in many places.

[@killiansonck6278]

I feel like Fallout 3 still did an ok job at it, super mutants still had that feeling to them that they are to be avoided early game.

[@pejman3]

For the use of FEV in fallout 4 the official reason is that they needed it to craft gen3 synths the way they want (aka give them any appearance). That's why they needed Shaun because FEV effects on irradiated DNA is unpredictable (usually results in "failed" specimens), thus having a "fresh" prewar baby DNA was the ideal base to build on. So the FEV experiment to make synths is literally the reason they kidnap shaun

[@ricardohumildebrabo]

This man paid attention.

[@RC-oq5ys]

Wow explains alot

[@bautistahernandezfernandoa85]

We have to admit Bethesda is good at justifying stuff, i mean, IT JUST WORKS

[@elecman748]

Nice joke, it was because reasons, now buy skyrim again

[@brok56]

@@bautistahernandezfernandoa85 dont! Just stop, Todd Howard.

[@grilledcheesinator55]

I'm not really mad about FEV being everywhere, the West Tek research facility shooting a bunch of it out on impact and leaking ambient FEV contamination over hundreds of years can explain mutants being everywhere, given the Enclave were going to use jet streams to carry Curling-13 throughout the world, perhaps FEV had already done this. I just wanna see new mutants already. Why can't there be standard mutants everywhere like Harold that fall in league with the ghouls? New FEV animals to challenge the deathclaw and alien-like pre-war experiments from all over the country like wanamingos being further altered by its effects. I wanna see the bizarre, like dogs convergently evolving into grazers, or hawks becoming terror-birds. So much potential for bizarre speculative biology and new biomes, and we just get the same things everywhere. And when we do get new things, they're inane or comical mutations already done on other monsters. We could've seen moose-sized carnivorous deer, but instead we get a two-headed stag that is just a brahmin but a stag. I wanna see more Mirelurk-style adaptations and less hairless versions of irl animals. Bethesda does that, and they'll get my approval.

[@kellerweskier7214]

well. 1. the West Tec spill on nuclear impact on spread it within Fallout distance of wtf ever direction, but the immidiate area around The Glow is whats primarily effected. the region is guessed to be lightly pepered with the FEV. 2. Culing-13 was also a project to actually tackle radiation world wide, not the FEV. the FEV was mostly just in the region. The mutant's being the Enclave's arch enemy. Though, a mad scientist hijacked this project and instead of making Culing-13 to tackle high radiation levels. it tackled anything that was was just slightly above background radiation levels... This would mean. anyone in the world at the time. the Oil Rig was able to hatch down to prevent it from getting in. But, those at Navarro will be killed too. This is something the President did not want. He just wanted to kill the super mutants and their abominations. most ghouls would have been fine as well. 3. Harold isnt what we would call a mutant. but i guess it also is. Harold is a Radiation changed human, not FEV changed. 4. id love to see more animals in Fallout. your ideas actually would be amazing. 5. tbh. Beth has been in a decline since Fallout 3. after Fo4 release, iv just kinda had it... then 76 gave me the coffin to put them in. Beth has this last chance to do something good with the title or they will be nailed inside and burried along side Konami, Blizzard, and Take2G. Hell. InXile Ent and Obsidian are both under Microsoft now. even though some of the crew that worked of FoNV has left, only one person that left worked on the original fallouts had left. theres a full 26 people in Obsidian and some 10 in InXile that made the original Fallouts. They might as well just... reopen Black Isle and focus it into Fallout and Wasteland!

[@decimation9780]

@@kellerweskier7214 Harold was splashed with FEV, but this just made a tree sprout from him, which eventually turned him into a tree and gave him the ability to grow plantlife. Radiation might have resulted in his ghoulish appearance, but the tree issue was a result of the FEV having an odd effect on him, even for FEV.

[@GateCaptain]

If I recall, there was a mention of something similar to this in the Fallout Bible. There was a leak in FEV storage caused by the war that caused it to enter the atmosphere, that plus the information we have on existing mutations would suggest that radiation is just one part of a larger process, with mutations being a mix of radiation, and dosage of FEV.

[@bautistahernandezfernandoa85]

Fallout 76's snallygaster is product of FEV experiments, I'm not sure about the scorchbeasts, but i think they are too, if I'm not mistaken, the West Virginia's enclave did some experiments on bats and add to that the ultracite on the mines gave birth to the big ass mutant bats of 76

[@Falloutlover1011]

@@bautistahernandezfernandoa85 Scorchbeasts are solely a product of ultracite.

[@duploman1000]

the intelligent not-kill on sight supermutants, the remnants of the master's army back west still very interesting to me. I'd like to see another intelligent supermutant companion with a fun story. Afterall they live pretty much indeffinately. But I'd prefer that obsidian writers and designers worked on the next title.

[@oddtomato1049]

Why is FEV Radioactive in Fallout 3 and 76? That stuff is literally made to counter Radiation.

[@adarus9941]

Maybe because they still hadn’t finalized it?

[@oddtomato1049]

@@adarus9941 The high irradiation would scramble the functonality of the virus and make it's outcome unpredictable and deadly.

[@shadowshadex4651]

if you become the radiation, you would be resistant to it

[@TNOFanZacharie]

Honestly, your idea of some small company trying to develop a cure and developing it but with disasterous consequences (for example, yes, it will cure you, but it will also cause your muscles to slowly die or something like that) or making something like FEV but maybe make it a drug. Like, it was supposed to be a drug to enhance your strength but it turned out that it does the opposite of FEV and makes people more intelligent? Or something like that, I don't know, I'm not creative enough and I'm really tired, but the idea of some random company making bootleg FEV sounds great.

[@bacd-nn2lg]

The original Fallout developer did a really good job regarding FEV virus in each game. Too bad that Bethesda is just stuck in repeating the same schematics with each game.

[@adarus9941]

Same, while I do appreciate Bethesda Explaining how Super Mutants are in 3, 4, and 76, they definitely rely on them to much, at least they had new FEV Created creatures in 76 and brought back the Floater to.

[@oddtomato1049]

@@adarus9941 It's not really a floater, it's just an FEV creature named "Floater". I'd say it's so distanced from what a Floater was that it's unrecognizable beyond it's name.

[@adarus9941]

@@oddtomato1049 Well it’s essentially the East Coast Version of the Floater, the ones back in Cali have a different look all together.

[@oddtomato1049]

@@adarus9941 But why not name it something else?

[@adarus9941]

@@oddtomato1049 Because it’s a Flatworm as well, it’s the same creature and is acting the same way as the West Coast Variant, thus Floater. Otherwise you might as well name the East and West Coast Super Mutants something else, they are similar but different in a sense.

[@I-AM-EL-ZOZO]

I absolutely love that thumbnail

[@nodaerT]

I feel like they should have made some other source of mutants or reused west coast mutants. The aspect of studying different "races" of super mutant is cool, but having a new kind every game is dumb.

[@Blowtorch87]

@XxBeBroxX you mean the S'Lanter?

[@m.oudekerk63]

FEV being in Big MT would make sense with their super science, but I don;t think they did anything with it...which is weird

[@ErichZornerzfun]

Something to consider with the lore break is that all the log entry says is that Major Barnett moved to Mariposa which is being argued against by the log writer. Just because he issued that order doesn't mean it was carried out, FEV research may have been carried on in secret somewhere else or a higher up may have countermanded those orders on the advice of the scientists involved. It would be nice if we got a clear explanation of what happened with Major Barnett but I don't think the log entry is anywhere near clear enough on whether the orders were actually carried out.

[@HovektheArtist]

I always thought it was an order that was ignored by westek, after all when have scientists in fallout stopped researchibg something or gave all their research over and moved on after being ordered to. Plus westek was a private company with ties to the military, cit and big mt, so there is absolutely no reason to think that they sent all their research and samples out because some buzzcut meathead told them to

[@OldSkullSoldier]

As I recall, there were few notable mentions that: - some mutated animals escaped WesTek facility, i.e. "the Glow" - these were not sterile. - there were samples of FEV there, that got out to the atmosphere when it was nuked - this was one of the primary resons Enclave needed Vault dwellers for control test, as these were not affected by the FEV, while everyone else wad in the wasteland. These trace amounts of FEV caused mutatuins in plan and animal life across the world. Still high amount of FEV was needed to create supermutants or else you could end up as a ghoul (like Harold).

[@evilbron666]

3:26 never realised vault-tec used to be vaultek. the things ya learn :) thanks for the vids

[@insert_apathetic6159]

I think they half ruined FEV but are slowly improving, In Fallout 2 and NV it made sense that the mutants were there. As the locations are close to the origin in Fallout 1. I feel like the Fallout 3 and 4 explanations don’t make as much sense as West-Tek having another location in 76 but I have no idea why they would have a location in West Virginia of all places. Also video idea: What place would you like the next Fallout game to be? I personally would like to see Hawaii, Florida or the New Orleans area of Louisiana Imagine scuba diving in Hawaii and seeing a mutant shark or an overgrown coral reef. Like subnautica

[@tbm8251]

3, 4 and 76 were by Bethesda. That's the point of the video, is Bethesda ruining FEV

[@WelcomeToDERPLAND]

That moment when the new plague only killed a few tens of thousands while coronavirus killed over a million lmao

[@elecman748]

As far I can remember, they contained the virus pretty quickly, we instead can't even convince someone to use a mask without starting a fight

[@TrashMutt]

@@elecman748 masks don’t stop viruses it’s for preventing saliva from falling into wounds during surgery if someone’s sick those microbes pass right through

[@overmon]

My experience with fallout lore was my first impression of the game thinking "Oh it's what we thought radiation did before we learned it just kills you" then I read the lore on FEV then thought "Oh this virus has an airborne strain and is a plot device." the idea that the ghoul's are made with a combination of radiation and airborne FEV made sense to me because the virus making the host overcome the problem is interesting a direction for new mutants like people getting hurt a lot would gain some deforming healing abilities. I do agree it is a problem that bethesda wants to make these things into phantasy races rather than the flash in the pans that they are. (just make new and different mutants or common mutant breeds like the rad scorpion but make them orcs and goblins)

[@taylorjohnson3965]

My headcanon is this: Fallout 76: Let's be honest there's no way this game is fully canon. Fallout 3: FEV was imported by the Enclave. They opened a still alive Vault 87 in the 2240s-60s, and started pumping out mutants to keep the wastelanders from posing a threat to them, hence the relatively weak societies in DC. The new strain would convert people less discriminately that the Master's strain, but as a trade-off the results are more unpredictable, and the mutants are dumber. Fallout 4: The Institute recovered a sample of DC FEV at some point, and attempted to utilize it themselves. It was exposed when a Warwick Farm style settlement got raided while working on it.

[@adarus9941]

When it comes to specific things for sure, For Example, Communists in Daily Ops with the End boss having a Chinese Red Scare Power Armor, it’s been confirmed non canon in the atom shop anyway so by that extension the Communist Daily Op is non canon.

[@chaserseven2886]

when it comes to lore if whatever happens in 76 is mentioned in future games then i think whatever is mentioned becomes canon so until a future fallout 76 is not canon except that vult 76 is there

[@ChineseNinjaWarrior]

Super mutants were post nucler orcs, while ghouls were kobolds. Remember that the same people who made Baldurs Gate came up with the idea of Fallout.

[@brandonalmeida8369]

Stumbled on your fallout content recently and gotta say I’m really enjoying you earned this smashing of the subscribe button👍

[@beach9131]

I personally think that having facilities that have FEV in different areas, but I’m not fine with it being in LITERALLY EVERY GAME.

[@blitzenwanderer8582]

I will say I enjoyed the fact that the Grafton Monster and Snallygaster of 76 were non super mutant, human mutations caused by FEV.

[@vyacheslav4217]

I would be okay with each Fallout game having its own FEV source, if Bethesda would use that to create a behind-the-curtain narrative about super mutants turning more wastelanders into hulking mutants to amass a new army and become a major threat to post-war America under a leadership of gen-1 super mutants. Would be cool to see them like this in Fallout 5 instead of them being just Shrek-raiders

[@jakethesnake4040]

Tbh I think a storyline where super mutants are dying out, and we have the ability to alter the last bit of FEV to either fix their sterility or kill off the rest of the species would be cool

[@Matt-md5yt]

glad you covered this one

[@nathanlowry9421]

I think that since the FEV was launched into the atmosphere thanks to the direct hit of the nuclear warhead, they could say that there are FEV Clouds were a much higher density of FEV lingers, making the cloud like object more dense until it settles on certain sections of the landscape basically allowing for really mutated creatures to be born from the FEV fog. You could even skip the cloud or fog and just say that certain parts of the wasteland have a higher concentration of FEV than other parts thanks to how the FEV settled in the atmosphere considering this is 200 years after the FEV was launched into the atmosphere. It’s possible that there are lakes of green FEV fluid that have settled into place and are now natural spots for super mutants to thrive in

[@ceu160193]

Probably main issue is with Fallout 76, as there is note, that neutralising agent was dumped into FEV tanks, so there shouldn't be any virus left. Yet we still have mutants.

[@psyxypher3881]

Honestly, I'm surprised no one else has tried the same methods that created Psykers with FEV-research. If I were testing the effects of a mutagen on a human body, the first control variable I'd use is "Okay, what happens if we administer it in different ways?" Maybe all the psykers were just unstable?

[@ramboturkey1926]

i mean in the fallout bible according to some q&a some devs attribute all mutations to fev

[@elecman748]

Yep, even harold says that

[@cyannnnnnnnn]

I think having some researchers/companies resist or keep backup samples because of personal interests fits the pre-war lore. It allows for sporadic placement of super mutants and and fev creations (just wish they kept it sporadic).

[@freepremium5886]

All those “hmms” lol. This shit was sounding real familiar

[@The_Alt_Vault]

The Mutant question as well as those related to FEV are usually answered at the same time. For me, you can have FEV in certain locations that do make sense not in every game though. I believe the best way is to have the east coast mutants develop into societies that yes are on a quest to hunt for more green stuff but have them be in constant migration settling only to take humans as food or slaves to eventually be dipped while following the strongest mutant or possibly following the smarter Institute mutants. (the same with the Gen 1 and 2 mutants in the west) Their story is one of a desperate fight for survival with the overwhelming fear of dying before they can continue the species or living long enough to become too dumb to care. (just a theory since Behemoths don't seem to be smart, just strong) If we ever get another game on the west coast Mutants should be hard to come by and if so friendly or similar to the Nightkin and Repcon with maybe having a group heading back to Maraposa to try and get to the remaining FEV or just because the Gen 1s leading them remember it as home.

[@dillonklasse4980]

If FEV research was so prevalent then I’d like to see different strains developed by different companies. I.e. if we’re going to get super mutants then I’d like different flavors depending on the region

[@adarus9941]

Thank goodness for different FEV Created creatures in 76.

[@tylerwaynes2107]

I wonder could FEV be used to cannonize legendary enemies?

[@vincent_hall]

Retcon is a shortened form of retroactive continuity, and refers to a literary device in which the form or content of a previously established narrative is changed.

[@cerocero2817]

God tier thumbnail.

[@battlesheep2552]

3:00 I would say the discrepancy could be a case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. Just because Major Barnett ordered and thought all FEV research was delivered to Marisposa doesn't mean it actually was.

[@adarus9941]

Definitely, also it seems to be implied the Vault 87 Scientists may have ignored the orders.

[@Rpg39_]

The fact that theres a KZbin channel dedicated to, “did Bethesda ruin...” should be enough information for you to know that Bethesda did in fact ruin a lot of things about Fallout.

[@ruffusisthebest7880]

TO BE FAIR, while he does pose the question of “Did Bethesda ruin” few of them are answered to be No? So there’s that I suppose. But you’re correct, a lot of things switched up.

[@pejman3]

or maybe it's enough to show that a lot of fallout fans are simply whiners that try to act all elitist finding faults in bethesda games but ignoring the exact same faults in previous games

[@sandroenuka5383]

@@pejman3 Yeah but, the most complains are about the RPG lacking elements, not... not y'know, the gunplay that the other lacked for example. they did gud there and they got credit. but that ain't what made fallout, THE FALLOUT.

[@jackgill6519]

@@sandroenuka5383 exactly, the real question should be “did Bethesda ruin the fallout game series of RPGs?” and the answer would be yes so we could all move on.

[@jackgill6519]

@Insert_text_here If they’re objectively right then they are right

[@eebydeeby03]

Worth noting, Dr. Zimmer traveled to the capital wasteland, maybe he saw the FEV and decided the institute needed itM. Bit of a stretch cause that's only a 10 year gap between Fallout 3 and Fallout 4

[@t2force212]

So I have a few things to say here. First of all good video like always and in this case I find myself largely agreeing with you. FEV (and Super Mutants by extension) have certainly been overplayed. What I want to mention are my thoughts on the FEV in the Bethesda Titles and even a plausible explanation for where the institute got their FEV. First let's talk about Fallout 3 and Vault 87. Knowing the ties that Vault-tec had to both the pre-war government and the enclave, as well as the fact that most of the vaults were really just a cover for various scientific experiments involving their dwellers, it is both entirely plausible and might I even say expected that Vault-tec would have an FEV vault somewhere for the enclave to access following the war. After all there is no guarantee that a military base won't be nuked to oblivion however a vault can both keep the FEV safe and the experiments running well after the bombs drop. As for the FEV in Fallout 76, I can't talk for it as I've boycotted the game (because of the money hungry practices not the bugs) and so I haven't read the lore regarding the West-Tek facility there. However in saying that my guess going from the lore presented in this video is that maybe the FEV research at the 76 West-Tek facility was done purely by West-Tek themselves, maybe with enclave backing without the military having any knowledge about it, therefore putting it outside of the jurisdiction of the FEV research the Major was able to order consolidated at Mariposa. Now to talk about Fallout 4. I completely agree that there is no need to have the FEV in Fallout 4 except to justify adding supermutants for the enemy variety and companion choice as well as make the institute a bit more of an evil organisation. That said the possible explanation I have thought up for where the institute got their FEV is from Vault 87 itself. If memory serves me right those FEV experiments were only going on for a few years before Fallout 4 and Virgil had only very recently deserted. We know Virgil had only just deserted because he was Kellogs next mission after dealing with the PC. If these experiments had only been started in the decade after the events of Fallout 3 then Vault 87 is the perfect place. I have been forming an opinion as of late to voice the growing dissatisfaction I have been feeling about the factions of fallout 4. My main two things I want to point at here are the super mutants and the Institute. As far as Super Mutants go, they did not need to be in Fallout 4 as a type of enemy and if you really wanted a Super Mutants Companion, they should've brought back some of the Supermutants of vault 87 like Fawkes and if you wanted a low karma companion just a Vault 87 survivor travelling the wasteland like the super mutants from mariposa would suffice. The other faction I have gripes with is the Institute. The Institute is just the enclave with a different Coat of paint. Seriously swap the white for a black, synths troop for power armour and the teleporter for vertibirds and you are left with another Branch of the enclave just waiting to be destroyed by a PC. The Institute needed to have been written better with it's intentions and made more into a grey faction that has done bad things but with an ultimately noble goal rather than what they are which is just e same wait for the wasteland to die approach many factions have took out of shortsightedness throughout the series. Anyways this is just my thoughts, I would love to hear a response with your thoughts on what I said, maybe even an idea for a video? Does Institute = Enclave?

[@sugar1905]

A good companion piece to this video may be one going over the "atmospheric FEV" debate, the merits of FEV together with radiation being the cause of all wasteland mutations, and whether or not the setting should have deferred to the "magic radiation" philosophy. Avelonne mentions an internal debate between the developers over whether or not the Necropolis ghouls owed their existence to FEV in any way (he eventually went the direction of No FEV iirc), and the debate over which would be the better choice is still going on in some corners of the fandom. Could even toss in a look at whatever's happening in Fallout 76 with player mutations and serums, title it something like "Did Bethesda (or Interplay) RUIN mutations?"

[@treetheoak8313]

I still think there should be an end game location in a fallout game with a FEV filled bunker. With extremely tough and unique enemies in and around the surrounding area. But nope, various levels of intelligent super mutants and centaurs. That's what FEV gets us.

[@deadonsnackcakes]

many real world DARPA projects use a concept of concurrency when the research ,testing and serial batch production all happen at the same time, such as mariposa becoming the sole initial research station and allowing other sites copy notes and gather data that reported back to mariposa . while yet more facilities produce massive stockpiles of FEV-2 for later use.

[@drinkinbuddy8264]

Subbed, this was excellent,y laced. Informative. Love seeing fallout 4 content. Have a good one

[@Altrantis]

I think they should have come up with different attempts at making supersoldiers that aren't FEV.

[@nicaln5104]

Even Fallout 3’s Supermutants I wasn’t a fan of it was a perfect opportunity to make an east coast equivalent want scary mutants? I had an idea on Washington or East Coast utilising Zetan tech for xyz which could’ve gave rise to other types of mutants using Alien mutagens, etc.

[@nicaln5104]

In addition, keeping the Super Mutants in California feels right. They’re better established or hell they could’ve done a great migration of the Mariposa guys to the east coast like how they did in New Vegas. You’d have less green bandits butttt it gives rise to interesting interactions.

[@nicaln5104]

In my F4 playthroughs just as little head cannon I use the texture replacer of SM to look like the West Coast Mutants so that it just is a little detail I enjoy. Downside is the mod includes the V87 SM as well.

[@domehammer]

They could fix super mutant sterility with Harold and Bob. Since it is a example of FEV that has no issues with reproduction. Could have Bob spread and exposure or consumption of plants derived from Bob fix the sterility issue. Or long term exposure to Bob turns humans into non-sterile super mutants due to trace FEV contamination over multiple generations.

[@bubbachannel2536]

Remember the centaurs of fallout 1 and 2? You know, amalgamations of creatures that the master dumped into fev for shits and giggles? Bethesda should bring those back

[@ketchupnfries3948]

So there is only two points I'd like to bring up. First on the lore breaks, I think yes, of course they break the lore by bringing it over but I definitely see why it was done. In my eyes, Black Isle and Interplay never intended to do what Bethesda wanted to do, they created lore to suit themselves, so in that sense Bethesda is bound to break it. I actually think they should've expanded the possibilities even further because it makes it easier to creat future games or scenarios. In any case I don't think it's a big deal. On the overuse of FEV and mutants again I'd have to say, yes it's has become a staple of Fallout, but to what end would stopping it would go? Why would Bethesda kill off Mutants (I wouldn't mind having them changed) or remove FEV, it would just make the creation of new games harder. And are we really to believe it's not entirely possible for FEV or mutants to travel across the country in 200 years, it's a time period so long you don't even need a lore justification.

[@Steelion69]

You missed a pretty important point; all the mutated creatures in Fallout come from exposure to ambient FEV from West-Tek's research facility (aka the Glow) being blown up by a missile. This ambient FEV combined with the Radiation is what created essentially everything from Giant Mantises to Brahmin to Ghouls, it's a big misconception because people assume that 1950s science fiction trope of "radiation = mutants" is applied to the Fallout lore, even though said trope only came into being in the Bethesda games (Emil Pagarulio is a hack #560 cough, cough) Its mentioned directly in the Fallout Bible, though implied in Fallout 1/2.

[@deadknight1402]

Possible alternative: Aliens experimenting on Earth lifeforms, and then for their own inscrutable purposes, dropped them back down to earth, resulting in yet more strange and bizarre, mutated beings in the wasteland.

[@mr-fatji1491]

FEV is one of my favorite parts of the fallout universe since I've always liked things like viruses and mutations in video games but I would love to see Bethesda do more with it like creating new creatures and making more use of it in the games plot like fallout 2 where it's not the main focus but still very important

[@adarus9941]

They did create new creatures with it in 76 which I appreciated.

[@mr-fatji1491]

@@adarus9941 I do appreciate that they made creatures like the grafton monster but for some reason they just don't feel like they belong in the fallout universe I was thinking something more disturbing like those failed test subjects in vault 87

[@adarus9941]

@@mr-fatji1491 Snallygaster as well.

[@mr-fatji1491]

@@adarus9941 oh yeah I actually really liked theme they remind me of centaurs

[@adarus9941]

@@mr-fatji1491 I have faith Centaurs will return in 76 just given the game is ongoing.

[@darkarpatron]

I think there's a *_very_* good reason Obsidian didn't include F.E.V in New Vegas. In 1, it served the purpose of the progenitor, the origin of the Master and the Super Mutant armies. In 2, it served the purpose of the dangerous lost relic, being the thing the Enclave search for, not to redo what the Master did and make Super Mutants, but to use the virus directly in their plans to wipe out the mainland. Each game had a distinct story reason why F.E.V was present and why the antagonists wanted it. In 3, its purpose is just rehashed from both 1 and 2, very lazily as well. It's still a key part of the story but very... tacked on. In 4, it serves only a minor purpose in the story itself from what I can recall, and it feels even more tacked on than in 3. New Vegas knew when to mention F.E.V, when to show the legacy of its impact, but had no direct physical presence in the game or story. Why? Obsidian knew that, even if they wanted to do more with it, (which I highly doubt they did), they wouldn't be able to tell a worthy story again with it. You can almost bet that if New Vegas was made by Bethesda, then Mr. House (because every important pre-war faction seems to have some of it under Bethesda) would be in possession of some from before the War or either the NCR or Caesar's Legion would be after some trace of F.E.V, NCR likely to try to destroy it after the Unity and Caesar's Legion... I dunno, maybe Bethesda would think to make Caesar believe that; since it enhances the physical form, it's worthy of bestowing upon his foot solders. Which would be stupid. I don't know if Bethesda would've actually done this, but their track record of writing F.E.V into *_all_* of the Fallout games headed by them speaks for itself. That's how I see it, anyway.

[@kooger888]

of the fev in different games outside of Cali, it would be neat. Like, let's say fallout 3's was a different strain and caused their super mutant to look way different. changes like skin,size, fur

[@SHDW-nf2ki]

I think the problem with using FEV for anything is the Master is heavily implied to be the smartest being to ever live. He was already a genius before his transformation and afterwards he absorbed the memories, personalities and knowledge of god knows how many people that he absorbed as well as fusing with all the computers in Mariposa. And HE couldn't perfect FEV. Which implies a lot, namely that the virus simply can't be improved upon in anyway or that the tools to do it don't exist anymore. Even the instititute couldn't advance it at this point its pretty set in stone how FEV works and thats why its so one note.

[@igncom1]

We have super mutants (and centaurs) with FEV, and Ghouls (and basically all other mutant wildlife) with normal radiation. So what other mutants could we have? Chemical spill mutants? Cyborg mutants? (or just a cybermen style rouge cyborg threat) Chinese mutants? from a weapons deployment?

[@Snowissnowier]

Supermutant's Long Gun

[@liquidlethe]

It would take time to prepare research and equipment for transfer to marioposa so bethesda could easily add a 1 year deadline to the order allowing for some wiggle room.

[@ramboturkey1926]

institute probably got the fev from the capital wasteland

[@unavela]

Thing is they could've millions of different mutations, infinite types of mutated humans, the ones made by the master was just one thing, specifically modelled by the master, you could've had completely different super mutants in the east but no, gotta copy-paste the mutants all over the country to make it "iconic"

[@SuperMeethead]

Ngl kinda miffed KZbin removed my joke comment about FEV and wanting to bring my rubber ducky during my dunk

[@Zerum69]

It'd be cool to get a fallout game where the player can choose to dip into fev, and of course continue to play as a mutant instead of ending the game there and there The type of mutant you'll end up as dependents on a number of factors, mostly your pre-dip Luck special and/or Science skill, the higher your Luck/Science the more likely it is that you'll end as a "primer" super smart and super strong mutant, and if you got horrible luck and science you'll end up as a horrible "ghoul-like" mutant no upsides

[@mikeandmike6169]

11k subs!

[@meman850]

Just thought this up while watching but the use of FEV in fallout 4 could've been much cooler if say instead of super mutants being so common, they could be treated like the escaped synths, They'd be escaped test subjects from the institute, being the only source of FEV in the Commonwealth, and therefore much rarer, stronger or be something like warlords running a few of the raider gangs (if they were like the intelligent ones from fallout and fallout 2). Would've at least made them a lot more interesting than the dime a dozen green raiders they became in fallout 4.

[@TheBHAitken]

What? You mean getting the virus type wrong because we didn't know about CRISPER yet? Bah, I'll forgive them for the slight retcon.

[@louiscipher2939]

I think the complaint is not so much that FEV is everywhere but that the east coast should have it's own stories with it's own factions and monsters. Do Super Mutants have to be in every Fallout game? If they decide to make a Fallout game in Europe, Australia, or even another galaxy will Super Mutants be there too?

[@adarus9941]

Honestly I feel they don’t have that excuse with Games set outside the US, at that point you pretty much have to be 100% Original.

[@bickboose9364]

Bethesda will stop re-using Super Mutants when people stop buying new Fallouts, which will never happen.

[@bickboose9364]

@Insert_text_here Good.

[@bickboose9364]

@Insert_text_here I've little doubt Bethesda will never make a good Fallout and the old Obsidian, the one capable of making a good Fallout, is also long gone. I've come to terms with this and I think Fallout should just be left to rest in peace instead of being tortured by Bethesda's main writer endlessly.

[@bickboose9364]

@Insert_text_here Sadly, it's very unlikely they'll replace Emil. Like you said, he's friends with higher-ups so he's deep-rooted into Bethesda's hierarchy. He's now currently doing Starfield's "writting" and will very likely continue to write for Bethesda until he moves to another company on his own, somehow (but, why would he?). It's very unlikely Todd would ever fire him. After all he wrote for the 2 best-selling games in Beth's catalogue.

[@jacoboswald4726]

Has anyone else heard any other human pronounce retcon the way he did?? Not an insult or a critique, just stunned

[@coltonstewart8698]

See my problem with this is there are really 3 options. FEV did it all. Radiation did it all (hard to believe.) No new creatures. I honestly believe Black Isle shot themselves in the foot by saying how exclusive FEV was and they would have to do the same thing. In this case at least I think Bethesda did the best with what they had.

[@mikehawk3992]

Bethesda should make the spore carriers from vault 22 as the main antagonist In the next fallout game

[@khaosgaming6826]

the solution is the supermtant blood...the FEV wouldnt just mutate them and stay in a vat, it could easily use the host body to spread

[@lummoxicide1502]

My question is did the institute have some relationship with the enclave and get the FEV fron them

[@drinkinbuddy8264]

That hmmmm sounds familiar huh thought that too

[@ChrissieBear]

10:03 I always assumed that FEV is what makes them "human". FEV is used to rewrite DNA, so in theory it could take lab grown meat and bone with simple, artificial DNA comprised of a few proteins, and change it into fully fledged human meat and bone with the full complexity of human DNA.

[@Anonymous-ks8el]

Over-using something as an easy plot/setting device doesn't ruin it, but it does ruin its potential as a device and prevent the use of alternatives as plot-devices and world-builders. FEV can only be found in extremely unique locations that are oddly nationwide, it's always accompanied by super mutants despite all the other mutagens in existence, nothing else is allowed to create new creatures (excluding bosses and demi-bosses). What about radiation, radiation in combination with mutagens, Chinese & USSR biological & chemical weapons as causes, mutagens from the environment (from the non-existent safety and industrial standards in Fallout America like waste dumping), why are there no mutants that specifically adapted to their surroundings/setting of the game, why no FEV mutated plants? FEV and Super Mutants so far indicate that Bethesda are creatively bankrupt and no alternate strains, clandestine operation to research it outside Mariposa or holotape can fix it if it's used the same way again.

[@clankthetank4286]

I've been thinking about the supermutant babies video from before, and there is something that has snagged me. All supermutants up to this point is generation 1 of supermutants. I don't know exactly what the FEV does to their DNA, wether its just mutated heavily, or if the supermutants are all carrying the same strand of DNA at this point. it its the latter, how will that bode for the next generation? there needs to be genetic diversity for the future generations to remain functional. will supermutants have to rely on human DNA to keep that diversity or is there a better workaround?

[@lukestewart6155]

I always thought the Institute got their FEV from the capital wastelands

[@toosuperb]

Good video Hotdog man approves

[@FatBoy42069]

I mean the institute having fev kinda makes sense.

[@joecool458]

At this point F.E.V super mutants go with fallout like Vault-Tech goes with vaults. When 76 came out and I saw super mutants my first thought was how are they going justify them being here in Appalachia. Yeah then I found Huntersville and West-Tech....

[@demilung]

Instead of the Big Scary Threat in Fallout 1, super mutants are just orcs now.

[@Hot_SpicyGrill]

If you introdunce a way for Super Mutants to breed, you could have the theme that humans are a dying race and that eventually they will destroy all humans.

[@TheAwesomeDarkNinja]

10/10 thumbnail

[@rustyshackle8000]

Bethesda just needs to let US become freaks of nature. Next game should let us purposefully become infected with FEV. Maybe make something akin to the tadpoles in Baldur's Gate 3? You gain more and more abilities, maybe choosing whether to focus more on certain aspects, like becoming a psycher, while also having to deal with the side effects. It's always sorta handwaved that no character in the series has ever been infected with FEV except in very specific cases that are only technicalities (like getting Ant DNA in 3.) Besides that...more mutant variants would be nice. Sorta weird that this virus, specifically created to act as a wonder mutator, just sorta...creates Super Mutants or centaurs. What about Super Mutants that are created when two people merge, creating two separate consciousnesses in a single body? Or lean into psykers, have Super Mutants able to produce fire or electricity. Constantly fighting bandits that are just big and green has kinda gotten old.

[@arch8angel]

With the close ties hinted at between vault tek and the prewar government was, it is not surprising they got a copy of the virus. and besides mariposa at the 2nd strain the rest could be working on the original strain since most of the other super mutants are idiots compared to the ones I remember from the 1st game

[@krispymoofin]

Didn't the Enclave in Fallout 3 have a modified version of the FEV which would basically kill everyone/everything in the Capital Wasteland?

[@akumu9188]

Yes and they had the same thing in fallout 2.

[@TheMichaellathrop]

Just have a few few supermutants and have them all be older like Marcus

[@wraithflaire1639]

Just because all the research was ordered to be moved Mariposa doesn't mean it actually was. Order are either lost or delayed by bureaucracy, also it could have turned out moving some of the research wasn't viable, also those orders don't preclude rogue experiments or the orders were just cover for them black-site{ing) the research.

[@Saidan79]

Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Yes, they did.

[@Tripartite1937]

So what you’re telling me is the Great War is clearly coming soon if the devs could predict the new plague aka in 2021.

[@LecherousLizard]

To be honest, I'd rather have Fallout Tactics 2 than ANY of the Bethesda Fallouts. Like, they actually had new ideas for both the first game and a very much different setting for the second game. For example super mutants there are one of the offshoots of the Unity only appear in a particular region and that's it. Deathclaws were reinvented with the Fallout 1's original concept arts, given a different backstory, etc. They fill similar niche, but are essentially a completely different creature. Vault 0 may seem over the top and appears out of nowhere, but the backstory for that one also doesn't pose problems. The only problem would be the fact Midwest BoS can manufacture power armor, but then you could just slap Fo4 lore on the issue and just say they modified the T-51B shell to give it the Batman look and the power armor is otherwise identical, so that one isn't actually any kind of problem anymore.

[@mrgrumboldt]

This man talking about FEV being ruined but all I can think about is how Akira Toriyama ruined Super Saiyans.

[@EdgarStyles1234]

I swear the fallout lore is coming true irl