What If Stealth Rock Never Existed?

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What if Stealth Rock never Existed? So many have dreamed about taking it out of the meta. In this video, we finally answer that question!
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
2:38 - Gen 4/DPP
7:06 - Gen 5/BW
11:52 - Gen 6/XY
15:45 - Gen 7/SM
17:18 - Gen 8 & Gen 9/SS & SV
18:09 - Outro
PATREON! / falseswipegaming
The Official False Swipe Gaming Twitter: / falseswipeg
Directed by Kellen / kellen_fsg
Follow Me On Twitch!: / kellen_fsg
Written By Kevin aka BKC His Channel:
/ @bkcisthrash
This Bread Needs More Jam:
/ @thisbreadneedsmo...
Edited By Connor Nguyen aka CDK
Follow Him: / cdk_1989
Thumbnail:
/ dustythesnowman
IG: / dustythesnowman
VFX Intro By Ryan Gonzales
ryangonzalesfilmmaker.weebly....
Songs Used (List of ALL Songs used for this series. Some may or may not make it into the video):
docs.google.com/document/d/1H...

[@FalseSwipeGaming]

Venture into fantasy and get 1001 FREE draws now! app.adjust.com/12blogg6

[@playersnake]

Please do the politoad therom next. How field condition (weather, terrains, entery hazards, trick room, etc) might be everything

[@Dragonmist19X]

Nah. And anything that needs to throw a doge in to advertise is garbage and this is likely no exception.

[@TheStrongestBaka]

The art style looks really cool actually but it's still an idle mobile gacha, sadge.

[@cristhianmlr]

What if Amoonguss never existed? What if Hyper Beam kept the same mechanics since Gen I?

[@cluelesskhajiit]

Sellout

[@PedroHenrique-mk5zi]

When Gym Leader Roark gave kids the TM for Stealth Rock, neither of them could imagine how massively it would affect Competitive.

[@grantdaily9662]

Right? Especially with 3 Gens of first gyms giving you such trash tms from Biden to Rock Tomb to Mudslap

[@Aster.D.Miguel]

Fr

[@yonkodude]

If charizard had a time machine he would personally kill roark as a child (His equivalent to killing hitler as a child)

[@Gamesmarts194]

Imagine in another timeline Roark gave out a Stone Edge TM instead.

[@WillyLongLegs]

He would give out rock polish instead of stealth rock if they didnt exist, i think stone edge IS a bit OP And rock polish is a New gen 4 rock move.

[@mlgchicken7717]

I feel like reminding Gamefreak charizard is 4x weak to stealthrock would instantly remove it

[@ayhamal-dabbas9048]

He is not that cold bro

[@SuperHGB]

​@@ayhamal-dabbas9048he's joking about how much stuff they give Charizard

[@RebornZombie]

If they just made entry hazards not take type into account it would fix a lot of things.

[@GamingWarlord64]

Oh no why would a flying type be weak to rock it flys over it and fire can...scotch rocks? (This is a joke)

[@SuperHGB]

@@RebornZombie ah yes, making stealth rocks just another layer of spikes

[@A_wild_Xavi_appeared]

Maybe Rock type Pokemon would destroy Stealth Rock like Poison type Pokemon can destroy Toxic Spikes. It's a good way to let Rock type Pokemon rise in the metagame.

[@kadabraguy9846]

My immediate thoughts are that Garganacl will be the only Rock to ever see OU play (or Ttar in previous gens) and so that'll only boost its viability in OU, but hey maybe there's another Rock that could make a name for itself as an instant Rock remover

[@Skeloperch]

>Rock type Pokemon You mean Tyranitar. Tyranitar would see even more usage. The other Rock types are still garbage in terms of stats and moves.

[@ryanvo6955]

@@Skeloperchgarg exists

[@alexisreal]

@@Skeloperch Funny you say that because Tyrannitar is garbage. there is the obvious Garganacl that would see considerable more use but there are other rocks that aren’t as elite such as Kleavor and Hisuian Arcanine that also are better than Tyrannitar

[@A_wild_Xavi_appeared]

​@@Skeloperch Garganacl, Glimmora and maybe another who can be buffed enough to be there or maybe, that rocks removal is a good option to bring a Rock type over the use of Rapid Spin/Defog (it's not to make Rock type OP, but more usable than now, even Tyranitar fell down to UU/RU). (Sorry if my English is not good, I'm a Spanish speaker).

[@HMZeroTwo]

Imagine if there was a Ice-type equivalent to Stealth Rock, that'd be crazy I think

[@Squirtle_Squad_Supremacy]

Finally bye goes Lando Birbs still suffering

[@fordtski]

Dragon type found dead

[@Bobopoes]

Garchomp is barely pu

[@DashOnWaves]

@@fordtski Garchomp and Lando T shivers in their boots

[@Ego-Fiend]

Well no more Salamence and Rayquaza And Flygon...

[@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502]

I feel like a (potentially) more interesting question is "what if stealth rock was not a TM?", after all a lot of important stealth rockers rely on using a TM to learn the move, and i wonder how much the meta would shift if the only mons with the move were those that learned it other means. Youd have to rely on pokemon which are much more flawed in order to get rocks up.

[@splitsee2526]

Lycanroc might actually become viable, atleast in it's Midday form due to it being the fastest stealth rock setter. Other than that though, we have Garg and Glim which are already great at setting stealth rocks but having no competition will make them so much better. We might even have Garg banned if it is that limits the metagame options that much. Iron Thorns will be a niche pick and Diancie MIGHT have a smidge chance to be viable. Other than that, everything else will be kinda pointless as the ones that I've mentioned are a lot better than Coalossal, Stonjourner, and Midnight & Dusk Form of Lycanroc would not have much change besides some lower tier shenanigans.

[@Skeloperch]

Rather than that, limiting it exclusively to Rock types would do wonders for the Rock type as a whole. Faster Rock types than Tyranitar would see usage just because they'd be the fastest setters around.

[@kevinstephenson3531]

@JohnDoe-pb4drwhich to be honest was a good choice. I feel allowing something like poison powder or poison gas to every Pokémon would be fine but toxic being uniquely a poison type move was a good decision.

[@PhoenicopterusR]

This makes me wonder what a TM-less meta would be like. I mean, I don't even know what the current meta looks like, but it sounds like fun either way.

[@axis8396]

Bulk Up comes to mind as a major loss, pretty sure Volt Switch and U-turn are largely TM moves for at least a solid chunk of mons. Calm Mind distribution would probably get limited quite a bit as well. Essentially you'd probably be limited to mostly clicking STAB moves and hoping your opponent doesn't have a resist

[@tkjjokey]

Imagine how huge of a buff it would be if Rock types absorbed pebbles upon switch in like poison types do for t-spikes.

[@ragnaricstudios5888]

That would be amazing, Rock is not a good type, so it would give them a better use

[@cradiculous]

--Tyranitar casually strolls back into OU

[@amberfrost7766]

Steel types absorbing spike ;p

[@cascor770]

Or an ability trample to crush spikes and rocks into dust

[@beibkk0]

make it heal them or raise their defense aswell cuz rock type sucks currently (except for salt)

[@zememerr2329]

I think it’ll always be funny that all the way back when DPP was current gen, the very first of Smogon’s CAP Pokémon, Syclant, specifically had an ability made to counter Stealth Rock

[@starry6608]

It wasn’t really mentioned but I feel like it’s worth talking about how so many Pokemon would be different without needing to run defog or rapid spin. Landorus and Great Tusks for example might be more powerful since they can run another move in those slots

[@ayo-whats-this]

I think lando will still run defog for the spikes. Since it can more easily come into hazards now, spamming defog would definitely be easy.

[@oscheoroset1298]

I don't think Tusk will dropped Rapid Spin (unless go on full offensive set), as right now he is the only one that can both clear hazard and capable of stopping Gholdengo, so he will keep using Spin or else you will risk losing to Gholdengo/H-Samurott core.

[@techknight3753]

Not to mention the huge increase in power for rock type attacks. Without stealth rocks, it would be placed upon rock slide, stone edge, power gem, etc to deal with many of these threats.

[@hawshimagical]

nitocris profile picture! adorable!

[@veenadayma6514]

Lando might still be running toxic if it was still compatible

[@daltonfreeman6551]

It's also important to note that regenerator only came into existence *after* spikes, sand, and stealth rocks. I know the video is only covering if it was banned, but if stealth rocks never existed I believe a many other things would've been changed as well, especially anything that lets you recover hp. They might have reduced recovery move pp a few generations early for sure and may have even changed regenerator to heal less.

[@techknight3753]

25% regenerator honestly sounds reasonable even now

[@christianjones7012]

​@@techknight3753 Me a Slowbro fan: you shut your blasphemous mouth! Regenerator is fine as is! I'm not biased, you're biased!

[@SemiHypercube]

Imagine if instead of Stealth Rock it was Stealth Icicle where it did damage based on Ice's effectiveness instead of Rock

[@jasz8470]

Landorus: 💀💀💀

[@KevNug91]

Garchomp, Dragonite, Salamence, Flygon, Zygarde, etc.: 💀

[@orangegalen]

Permafrost

[@hessiankyojin]

Ice types rise up from the worst to the best

[@camgoodkicks]

This

[@1peidu]

10:44 BKC's hatred towards Latios is my favorite part of the Gen 5 OU metagame

[@skeetermania3202]

Really? Was the bias that obvious?

[@bluebaron6811]

Hot take: Rocks would be perfectly balanced if they didn't calculate quad weaknesses

[@shinigamimiroku3723]

Heck, just make it hit Flying-types the same way Spikes hit non-fliers.

[@ThisIsntAYoutuber]

This. Either reduce the effectiveness of Stealth Rocks so that it does 25% at most(like three layers of spikes) or get rid of it entirely and make it do a flat 12.5% to ALL types(including resisted ones).

[@Skullhawk13]

@@ThisIsntAKZbinrthat makes too much sense, Game freak will decide to just double the type multiplier. Instant death

[@renatoramos8834]

It should cap at 12.5%.

[@gust20xx32]

@@renatoramos8834, Either cap to 12,5% or just don't apply waekness/ resistance at all -- everybody takes the same damage regardless of typing. Why favor Ground, steel and fighting types even more, there's no need, IMO (specially steel).

[@hectordejesus9194]

The move that changed the lives of many Pokemon. For better or worse it came, it played, and it poked the heck outta many Pokemon.

[@Pudcup]

"Ow, 16% of my health is gone," - Slowking

[@GoldStorm07]

The rebalancing idea for Stealth Rock that always appealed the most to me is having its increased damage depend on whether a Pokemon is airborne (Flying or Levitating), not on typing. That way it functions more as a complementary hazard to the traditional Spikes without skewing the competitive scene around weaknesses and resistances toward the Rock type.

[@reneantoniorodriguezippoli7561]

i saw that kind of rework too If I remember correctly it said this all types lose ⅛ of their max health except Flying-types or Pokemon with Levitate who lose ⅓ of their max health due to being immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Sticky Web

[@afriendlycampfire260]

@@reneantoniorodriguezippoli7561why not 1/4 give them a break already

[@javierdurini]

To whomever does the thumbnails for this theorem videos, you are doing gods work.Great video!

[@gengarboi8745]

I always found it weird how Spikes can't hit flying types or levitate users and take multiple turns to set up, but Stealth Rocks takes 1 turn and can do super-effective damage.

[@paulomalley3211]

I also feel like something that’s overlooked is that rocks severely limits the defensive potential of fire and flying types, even bug types would give fighting types and ground types a struggle of their own, I think this defensive presence will help with a lot of these threats that benefit without rocks. I think the most unhealthy part of rocks is the unbalanced offensive benefit it gives to certain types like the fighting type. Opening up these defesive prowess would actually be quite healthy because offensive cores still need defensive backbones and substitute is a better move that screws with regenerator cores that would be “buffed”. Possibly sub might get banned it’s interesting. I’m all for a trial.

[@Gold_Gamer_100]

Makes me wonder what would happen if certain top players told themselves "Yeah, let's play our metagame, without Stealth Rock" and play certain tournaments without it. As in, you have a small group of players experimenting a Stealth Rock-less meta and seeing what changes. Though, if this did happen, U Turn and Volt Switch are almost defenitely getting the axe

[@TheSandwhichman108]

Definitely U turn but Volt switch would possibly still be around. Since it’s limited to mostly electric type mons and with so many ground types and Pokémon packing volt absorb and lightning rod it would be easy to stop an opposing pokemon from escaping.

[@janehrahan5116]

Spikes would replace it as a hazard. The main change would be flying types going up roughly a tier or two each and 4x weaks all going up 2 tiers each. Just guessing from my gen 4-7 smogi exp. It would absolutely be a better game, but it won't happen since inertia.

[@petelee2477]

​@@TheSandwhichman108u turn can be punished with a Rocky helmet. Ferrothorn isn't scared of U turn.

[@AyuNico]

We already had a Smogon metagame without rocks. It was just a stallfest.

[@Quirriff]

I don't have a problem with spikes or toxic spikes , they require several turns to set up and there are plenty of pokemon that are immune. But Stealth Rock seems to easy and automatically takes out 50% HP of quite a bit of pokemon.

[@emmetstanevich2121]

I feel like one way to nerf stealth rocks without making it too weak would be for it to simply ignore quad-weaknesses, and have the damage capped at 25%. Stealth rocks seem to be largely meant to punish flying-types, as the 25% damage it deals is equal to the damage taken by a rock-neutral pokemon switching in with stealth rocks and a single layer of spikes. Also, I feel like Heavy-duty boots should probably be slightly nerfed, such as by simply reducing the damage of hazards, rather than completely ignoring them (although they should probably still ignore non-damaging hazards, such as toxic spikes and sticky web.)

[@1stCallipostle]

Boots were a mistake to invent in the first place. Whether or not they're useful for you/ whether or not your opponent experiences pain from them is so composition based it may as well be luck. I find the idea of them too flawed to warrant existing.

[@janehrahan5116]

This. Boots are a thing because gamefreak refuses to remove rocks.

[@ladyriethegoldendelmo5441]

@@janehrahan5116 cause gamefreak thinks stealth rock rocks!

[@ES-dp6tw]

I enjoy What-If scenarios. What if Leech Life has 80 BP from the start? What if the physical-special split came earlier, or not at all? What if this Pokemon got an evolution/Mega instead of that Pokemon? It makes for grand musing.

[@Dabrick47]

What if Dark, Steel, and Fairy types were available from the start?

[@timothyskidmore1554]

If hyper beam still didn't require recharge after knocking out an opponent.

[@pageclayton6850]

​@@timothyskidmore1554hyper beam *and* its various clones Dialga would be even more nuts

[@timothyskidmore1554]

What if Dragon types weren't considered broken by game freak

[@Zeppongola]

What if rock _resisted_ water rather than being weak to it, under the logic of "rock erosion takes place over hundreds of thousands of years"? Also re: the leech life thing, if the learnsets weren't changed at all, imagine the difficulty spike for the kids playing gen 1 for the first time all those years ago upon arriving at Mt. Moon, and being suddenly exposed to a gauntlet of too-fast-to-escape-from, appearing-every-8-steps 80 BP spamming Zubats, oof

[@daltonfreeman6551]

This may sound weird, but I think ice types would be much better without rocks. Not just by getting rid of losing so much health, but also checking the flying types are still up. They'd get hit harder by fire types, as they'd be free too, but they don't check flying types necessarily.

[@mighark54]

If you are interested on ideas from comments, I'd like to see a what if legendaries were banned. Competitive players are already used to legendaries being no different than any other mon unless their power proves otherwise (see Kyurem-Black), but casual players usually don't like the "legendary spam" that competitive play can become, so it'd curious to see what would happen if those players had it their way. Considering how many legendaries become key pieces of their metagames, I'm sure it would be an interesting thought at worst. Examples of big pieces being removed would be Zapdos, Gen 2 Raikou, Jirachi, Heatran, Gen 4 Latias, Gen 5 Latios and Keldeo, the 3 genies, the Tapus, it could go on and on tbh

[@DanielTredewicz]

Welcome to PokeMMO metagame

[@christianperez8303]

By that Logic Pseudos should be banned top because of their leggendary stats, i think though that Pseudos and Legends should be used

[@PregnantOrc]

I think the more fun "what if" scenario would be if Stealth Rock worked like weather, no not in terms of limited duration but in hitting both sides of the field. Chicken race to see who will use their turn to set it up and who can sneak out a real monster because the opponent was sure the first guy would use rocks. Hitting you own side too would still be worth it depending on team.

[@shatteredsentient5321]

Tbh, they should let stealth rock only be learned by rock types. Or just set up by Stone axe. Would give rock types more of a niche or let Kleavor have a niche.

[@kwayke9]

I would have rock types absorb it instead. Imo ground types should also learn Stealth rocks

[@darianclark3980]

Volcarona: Hello Ubers, may I come in? Ubers: You're not on th- Volcarona: Stealth Rocks is Banned Now! Ubers: Oh my Arceus, come in good sir! Somebody give this Fire Bug Fresh Charcoal!

[@silversteel8160]

Man, Charizard would have loved this alternative world

[@ayo-whats-this]

Zard would be a solid NU pokemon.

[@ayo-whats-this]

In all honesty though, specs zard might be an immediate addition to sun teams. That is some Chi yu level of damage.

[@aSh-pi1in]

​​@ayo-whats-this I'm feeling UU for it in gen 4

[@Jollofmuncher2000]

​@@ayo-whats-thischarizard will forever be unbound to tiers it's the great charizard

[@princesscrystal6410]

@@aSh-pi1inUU Gen 4, Gen 5 RU, and X and Y might be banned to Ubers Gen 6

[@KingDugan]

My biggest problem with steath rock is that it makes specific types(mostly ones that are already bad defensively) hard to use. I think it would be better to have different "types" of stealth rock, but only one can be active at a time.

[@haslittle8078]

When spikes is the best entry hazzard, the value of flying types would drastically increase. This would make ice, rock, and electric even better offense types. The Flying

[@pilby457]

If you're planning to make more 'What if' style videos (which I absolutely love), would you consider opening a tournament with your viewers with the restrictions or unrestrictions in mind? I think that could be fun

[@Alphine172]

I feel like the easy solution would be to make stealth rock mainly a move that mostly rock types can use instead of just about everyone rn, plus make it like toxic spikes where they disappear when a rock type enters the field, would give a much needed buff to a weak type.

[@possiblehistory]

A Pokemon alternate history? I must say I didnt see this coming...

[@juliandamen9804]

Omg hi

[@abraham-kun4144]

Can you make "What if U-Turn, Volt Switch, Flip Turn, Baton Pass, etc. never existed"?

[@ExcalibeonSwordofEeveelutions]

Don't forget Flip Turn, unbuffed Teleport, and *Baton Pass!*

[@abraham-kun4144]

@@ExcalibeonSwordofEeveelutions I know the existence of that moves, they are just ones of all existing switching moves.

[@foemon2345610]

I think tjey already have a video on baton pass and uturn / volt switch might be covered in the why turns are everything video

[@phillipclearman859]

Fascinating how Stealth Rock has been around for so long yet sharp spikes was just removed and who knows if it will return in Scarlet/Violet DLC?

[@vonskeedle5309]

I think the thing that makes Stealth Rock so polarizing moreso than the mere existence of a universal hazard is how it punishes specific types way more than other types. Maybe if there was a second version of rocks that wasn't, well, *rock* type, and rocks themselves got a more narrow distribution as a move, it wouldn't feel so lopsided in which pokemon get punished and which pokemon couldn't care less.

[@B-Ran_the_Man]

Welcome to the FSG episode of "What If.....". Would love to see more of these

[@YourBoyNobody530]

Smogon should really make a no hazards meta game, or at least something similar. Oh what if they made a no status meta game that would cool. I think it would be really cool to see what strategies people use for a meta game without status moves. This like poison point muk might because meta game staples for its ability to apply poison. Offensive pokemon wouldn't have access to boosting moves like swords dance, and nasty plot which made them so scary. Additionally, defensive pokemon wouldn't have access to reliable recovery with moves like roost. All of a sudden charge beam becomes a widely used option of special attacking electric types with moves like power up punch becoming staples on physical sets.

[@Peelioka]

I wish there were more variations of stealth rocks for different types, where one set replace the other type; It'd make the meta super interesting.

[@user-wt8zh1bx8y]

Blast pebbles - deals 30/60/90 BP fire damage off a set 100 base attack stat to whichever pokemon that switches in, the damage increases with the layers. The pebbles detonate upon the switch-in however, meaning you'll have to set up blast pebbles again once it takes effect. Also hard-countered by boots and flash fire.

[@joelwatkins]

Nettles for Grass. Glass Shards for Ground. Landmines for Fire/Steel. Wildcards for Psychics.

[@user-wt8zh1bx8y]

@@joelwatkins Grass has leech seed and Ground has spikes

[@user-wt8zh1bx8y]

@@joelwatkins Ideally psychic type hazards should be more like sticky web but for Special Defense

[@kevinstephenson3531]

Only one issue. It makes Ko of the entire opponent’s team to easy. Having them all be stealth rock clones kinda sucks. You would need so many hazard removers.

[@Shadowth117]

I feel like the biggest problem with stealth rock isn't its existence, but that it's super effect on Pokemon. Spikes doesn't do this, other than floating/flying Pokemon avoiding them. Definitely interesting to consider the idea of it just being gone entirely though.

[@alwaystired9754]

I can't help but feel that if the existence of stealth is so significant that it singlehandedly takes down all types that are weak to it a peg, so much so that type combos that are 4x weak to it considered almost unplayable due to just this one move, that it would've been a lot better for the metagame if stealth rock either didn't exist or dealt neutral damage. Or make other entry hazard moves that deal damage of other types to even it out.

[@AyuNico]

It doesn't really. Most mons that would be good are good despite stealth rock (such as Volcarona or Moltres), whereas mons like Articuno, the initial bugs etc won't be any better without rocks.

[@boop53]

without rocks, Banded Flygon in DPP OU might be insane. Sand immune, spikes immune, easily pivots, threatens tier staples like Jirachi, Lucario, Empoleon and Heatran

[@beebobber546]

It would immensely buff rock types. Stealth rocks took their prey away and discouraged rock type weak Pokémon from being used as often

[@jouheikisaragi6075]

Are you saying that GF used the stones to destroy the stones?

[@GoTELuckyCharms]

Moltres would be so scary with no stealth rocks. You don't know how bulky it'll be when it slaps lefties on

[@ConnahGriffin]

Still will be far worst than Ho-Oh. Just a better version of moltres

[@wilsongutierrez-estela9797]

​@remremachawngthu3593 Bruh. Standard smogon play, not ubers. Lol

[@LazurBeemz]

ok, so Moltres goes to Ubers as well, problem solved.@@wilsongutierrez-estela9797

[@Clooger-]

​@@wilsongutierrez-estela9797Smogon has Ubers.. this comment is fucking stupid.

[@GoTELuckyCharms]

@@ConnahGriffin Ho-Oh would be devastating all of Ubers, that's not a doubt in my head. We're not discussing Ubers tho.

[@jamesday9811]

The intro on this video is beautifully written, keep up the great content team!

[@Ringularity]

This can be an amazing series FSG!

[@MogDog9]

I think the big problem with stealth rocks is that its damage is too extreme to those weak to it and that it only takes 1 layer to get maximum value from it. Spike and toxic spikes take 3/2 turns and have less of an extreme effect for the turns invested. I'd like to see stealth rocks damage range squished to [6.25, 9.375, 12.5, 18.75, 25]. Yes this doesn't follow the weakness formula like it currently does but neither does spikes.

[@SchplatJR]

I’m surprised that you didn’t talk about whether or not spikes and toxic spikes would become more prevalent.

[@Y0G0FU]

we did a small Singles tournament in our discord not too long ago where we played on Showdown but banned not only Stealth Rocks but all entry Hazards. We didnt ban any Pokemon and Ho-Oh was by FAR the most broken thing we found on that Weekend. Its too bulky, it hits hard the worst thing we found out was... it didnt need Regenerator. It was able to run Pressure because Leftovers and Roost kept it healthy enough. Ho-Oh was part of 8 Teams and these 8 teams where the last 8 Teams standing. In the Semi Final one round came down to Ho-Oh (Regenerator) vs Ho-Oh (Pressure) and the Pressure Ho-Oh won because the opposing one had to Struggle in the end :P The Finals had another Ho-Oh vs Ho-Oh fight both with Pressure this time. But one Ho-Oh won easily because it managed to get 2x Ancient Power boosts.

[@coltsfan354]

This is a really cool idea and video. I'd love to see something like "How Hidden abilities reinvigorated bad Pokemon."

[@fetusdeletus1179]

Stealth rock Sneaky stone Quiet pebble Secret gravel Covert cobble Sly slab

[@jossuecabrera8611]

Great video as always! Now im looking forward to other theoretical videos about removing important parts of metas. Maybe a video discussing what if rain or leftovers never existed or even woth some pokemon, like lando t or heatran.

[@Matpit18]

One of the most game-changing moves of Pokémon. Up there with Close Combat and Defog. Great video, FSG!

[@GellertGreer]

The one of the many banes of ice types existence. Stealth rock dealing type damage has always felt absurd.

[@mustafamrouweh7873]

Well there is the middle ground solution Nerf stealth Rock as in make if go away after 2 activations So it would put more pressure on the players because the user must time it correctly to slow down the opponent and the receiver must have a backup plan if they don't want to lose HP on their Pokemon weakened by stealth Rock

[@kai_3788]

I’d love to see more what if videos like these. This was fun

[@SamManlyMan1]

Whoever you get to do the art for the thumbnails is awesome

[@theelementalstation947]

Volcarona would just run wild, the thing is strong enough to be among the best despite stealth rock, now without it, oh, it would be as terrifying as it would be glorious.

[@marble9071]

Would let Volcorona run life orb instead of boots Heat Wave, Fire Blast or Flamethrower for fire Staab, Bugg Buzz, Quiver Dance, Giga Drain for Grass coverage and healing off life orb recoil

[@KyonV13]

I always wondered why there was no other types of stealth rock. Toxic Spikes made sense but I just wanted more "take elemental damage on entry" type moves. Or at least more persistent stat changing stuff like the way Sticky Web was.

[@pageclayton6850]

Same. Copperajah's Max move was cool, too bad it was removed I feel Razor Wind should also set up a flying type hazard (and be a flying move). Maybe have the flying type one be more powerful, but be removed by lots of different wind moves, like tailwind or heatwave, alongside stuff like defog

[@panosantzal7013]

Would absolutely love see a series of false swipe gaming playing in Pokémon showdown, he clearly knows about the competitive aspect of the game and it would be interesting see him playing!

[@misfit-hu1xk]

Since I'm so early I can finally tell you I love the script writing of your videos and your voice as well ❤

[@Dabrick47]

I hope you do more of these what-if scenarios. Things like what if there were actual bug or ghost moves? What if the ice/fairy ninetales was the original? And so on.

[@justinnzamora5366]

What if Pursuit still existed in Gens 8 & 9?

[@mr.penguindrewmateo8146]

@@justinnzamora5366Pursuit Kingambit?

[@ultrajoey3478]

Thatd be fun OM tbh, no entry hazards. Itd definitely change alot more up than expected

[@duelme1234]

I wonder if there is a generation with no entry hazards..... 🤔

[@LordBeau]

@@duelme1234both of them suck

[@thundergamespt99]

​@@LordBeauhey, gen 1 is just chaotic good

[@WrathofArchon]

​@@LordBeau gen 1 is the only one with no entry hazards, gen 2 and onwards have entry hazards

[@LordBeau]

@@thundergamespt99 gen 1 is ass, especially gen 1 rands

[@thisrandomdude2880]

I've parsed through the comments and I've found some pretty interesting ideas so I'll sum them up: - Make Stealth Rock damage disregard quad weakness (i.e cap the damage to 25%). - Limit the distribution of the move (by removing the TM and making rock types the only rock setters). - Make it a flat damage dealer regardless of type effectiveness (at 12.5% / 25% damage for example). - A simpler change, make it grounded like the rest of the game's gazard (i.e doesn't affect flying type / levitate pokemon). - Chaotic Neutral crowd advocating for an Ice version of rocks (its honestly a horrifying image). Honestly it is a shame to see so many pokemon being outclassed and disregarded outright due to a single move. All these options are way more interesting than what we currently have imho, but I especially like the idea of limiting the move's availability, as it'd open up new niches for otherwise forgotten pokemon (or maybe just Tyranitar lmao) and make room for stealth rock weak mons to have a resurgence in the metagame. I stopped playing the games after gen 7 cuz the power creep felt out of control (even more than gen V's, a metagame marked by massive upheaval and shifts in pokemon usage), and gen IX just continues this trend, what with the outrageous new options and broken moves/abilities introduced. I mean ffs Magnezone is UU, T-tar is RU, Salamence fell to UU in gen VIII, AND ZAMAZENTA IS OU THIS THING HAS 660 BASE STATS AND A BUSTED ABILITY THIS IS EVEN WORSE THAN KYUREM BLACK HOW DO YOU MANAGE TO POWERCREEP THAT??? *Ahem* sorry for this little segue, what I meant to say that these sorts of changes to stealth rock and other mechanics would endear me to return to playing the games despite the current state of the franchise and the competitive scene.

[@rossthemoss6827]

Poor T Tar didn’t just get power crept it had every niche in OU taken away from it - sand is pretty much useless at this point with no good mons to take advantage of it since Drill and the Fossils aren’t in the game - Kingambit utterly stole its role as a bulky, strong dark type and does nearly everything T tar does better, - Sun and rain also got a buff this Gen with sun getting paradox pokemon and rain getting the base 120 power wave crash - and 2 of the most used Ou mons resist both dark and rock, and aren’t earthquake weak, and one has massive physical bulk

[@1314Bn]

I know no one plays LGPE OU, and LGPE is not a focus of this channel, but can we just admit how crazy it was for stealth rocks to exist in the game but with no way to remove it, only preventing it via taunt. I wish that fact gets more recognition.

[@HeisenbergFam]

Knowing life if Stealth Rock was removed, sth more ominous would replace it

[@michaelxie837]

I always say this but seriously, whoever does the art for these thumbnails is always amazing

[@Thelostrune]

Let's not forget how it'd just be the cherry on top for Mega Rayquaza, one of many cherries.

[@nAMEHless]

For a follow-up idea. What would the meta be like if there were other types of stealth rock. Like Stealth Thorns (grass or steel?), Stealth Puddle, Stealth Stalagmites...

[@pageclayton6850]

Other ideas for names could be Phantom Spikes (ghost) Black Ice (ice) Sharp Scales (dragon) Ambush Swarm (bug) Pitfall Trap (Fairy) Or giving other moves effects that give field hazards, like Razor Wind putting up a flying type one, or Hydro Cannon/Blast Burn/Frenzy Plant setting up their respective type hazards

[@nobodyspecial9097]

This amazing content helps me get through work. Thank you very much for your hard work.

[@becausesakamoto5938]

two uploads so close together is a blessing

[@hioh6715]

Just make Spikes deal 12.5% Max HP regardless of type (still layerable) except airborne pokemon, and have Stealth Rock deal 25% Max HP regardless of type (unlayerable) but only against airborne pokemon (they are floating rocks, after all). This way they both serve their purpose without overlapping each other and degenerating the type chart, while also avoiding the need to have an SR equivalent for every single type, letting Rock-Types keep that solid movepool niche they sorely need.

[@Igorcastrochucre]

I want there to be the the ice equivalent to Stealth Rock, but I think they have't done yet is because it would kill the viability of Dragons.

[@Rarest26]

Yet they made fairies so I doubt that’s the reason

[@vyor8837]

Imagine a pure flying type landing into both stealth rocks and this ice version.

[@yungmuney5903]

But Bugs? NAH NAH NAH THEY TOO OP AMIRITE?

[@frozenvoltz6739]

Videos like this emphasize why Stealth Rocks as crippling as they can be are a HUGE necessity for Competitive and with how many things they keep in check you appreciate them a lot

[@snailymitch]

The issue is that stealth rocks are a necessity for comp entirely because its a widely available entry hazard, it has very little to do with the type effectiveness mechanic thats unique to it. Making spikes more widely available instead would have resulted in most of the same benefits without heavily skewing the metagame by arbitrarily crippling certain types.

[@Ram-zc4fi]

no it doesn’t- just balance outliers in their respective tiers like ho-oh better. stealth rocks eliminate viability of many types and create lazy, boring competitive comps

[@captainmoonunitsexparty2903]

I love this kinda alternate history/theory crafting video.

[@alivegman3155]

Volcarona becoming a banned threat simply cause pointy pebbles disappeared makes me feel like it’s finally getting some credit as a Pokémon of the very sun (not that it doesn’t get some already)

[@youtube-kit9450]

Stealth Rock is probably the one move that I consider good that I wouldn't mind to be removed (I'd probably remove like, half of the early-gen garbage slot filler nonsense or rework them but that's another topic) So many pokémon just doomed to unusability, and it tends to hinder types that aren't even that super overpowered like loltype bugs, middling flying (even though it probably was created exactly to punish flyers that dodge every other hazard) and ice types that already cannot switch in because of entry hazards and having abysmal defensive typing. Feel like maybe another type could've helped - if it was ice, it'd still punish flying, it would punish grass types that have billions of self-healing in leech seed, drain moves and all that jazz, brutalize dragons (which went rampant in gen 4/5 before the fairy types) and especially all the pseudos constantly introduced that are dragons, and ground is omni-present aswell. And the bad switch-in ice types would benefit from not being as affected by it. To be clear, I'm not a competitive player, but SR or a move like it seems like a good thing to do, but I feel rock was the wrong type to choose. Since I'm not competitive, ofc comments are welcome telling me why exactly rock-type stealth rocks in gen 4 with fighting types and dragons ramping up and getting worse in gen 5 was the right decision (cuz to me it just looks like a mistake), or other people's ideas on the name, flavour and type of a different-type stealth rocks to have some fun discussion. Also, so far we talked only about one type of such hazard - what if there were multiple types (not every type) of such hazard? Like 2-3. What types would be suited to it so everyone wouldn't just flock to the one obviously superior type, and what benefit would there be to each SR-esque move type? Dunno, might be interesting to explore how metagames might be shaped with a stealth rock variant of each type, introduced in gen 4 I guess.

[@AyuNico]

We have already had metagames without stealth rocks explored in Smogon, it wasn't any funnier. It was just a repeat of Gen 8 with HDB except you didn't have to sacrifice an item slot.

[@SleepyBrady]

​​@@AyuNicoi feel if they decided to remove/nerf stealth rocks earlier we might not even have HBD. Honestly I hate the move to death but Gamefreak being awful at balancing their own damn game and never changing anything has dug themselves deep now since I guarantee that HBD was ONLY made to counter stealth rocks. You wouldn't have needed to make HBD if you just did the sensible thing and nerf the obviously unhealthy move and then I think the game would be better for it.

[@AyuNico]

@@SleepyBrady Except that Stealth Rock is needed, which is why I think you didn't read my post. We need hazards in this game, otherwise switching is a free move.

[@wyattnance3756]

It’s very funny to me that if you take rocks away from Ubers, Ho-oh probably becomes the most unkillable offensive threat possible, aside from catching it with a predicted rock move

[@Zeppongola]

What makes Ho-oh so good compared to the other ubers (if stealth rock wasn't a thing)? I've only got a vague impression of what competetive, let alone ubers, looks like, but from what I can see: Comparing it to say Kyogre, who IIRC was really good in a gen or two, it looks like it only has a bit more spdef and hp, while being a bit weaker (and physical rather than special), with the same speed and defense. Type-wise it has a glaring weakness in rock and a moderate (I assume) one in water, while Kyogre instead has a weakness to grass, which I think isn't really used much in ubers? It does have more resistances, but it doesn't look to me like they're enough to make it head and shoulders above the rest of the ubers. Are we only talking about the gens where it gets regenerator, or does it have a bonkers movepool, or something?

[@mrtrollnator123]

​@@Zeppongolaprobably regenerator

[@Kingdeather]

Honestly, rather than outright banning them it should hard cap at 25%, putting it in line with Spikes after three layers. This keeps it strong enough that it still keeps relevant threats in check, but doesn't outright make rocks irrelevant and gives certain teams the ability to better navigate scenarios when they can't remove hazards.

[@flynnhunter416]

I feel the best way to do this would be to create two separate "games" on with and one without rocks each gen.

[@snarkwoz3002]

Idea: what if the physical/special split never happened?

[@AutumnOwlex]

It feel like stealth rock is good for countering checks that need it but because how spamable and only 2 moves to remove entry hazards it causes it to be used on every team and then it has a snowball effect of the pokemon who are good with rocks up and weak to it are really good, any average Pokemon that would be good to drop a tier and any bad pokemon to be laughed at.

[@Archer690Channel]

i feel like a good way to nerf rocks is to actually buff rapid spin and give it to more mons, like when you use rapid spin ro remove hazards, your opponent gets the damage and effects of those insantly (like sticky web's slow down and toxic spikes bad poison) aside from the spin damage, it would make you consider if you should put rocks and other hazards or get punished hard for it, that or wait until the spinner is down to put rocks

[@paradocks184]

I would love to see a video about the biggest changes from generation to generation. In terms of new mons, new moves, items, abilities, mechanics, etc

[@Wolfdawg504]

Haven't watched the episode yet, but I'm going to guess that a ban on sneaky pebbles means Volcarona dominates the meta from gens 5-9.

[@Richtofen-gy9cj]

Volcarona got banned in Gen 9 since it was able to change types

[@Wolfdawg504]

@@Richtofen-gy9cj I know, but that had more to do with it being able to expand its offensive options rather than it being held back by pebbles and the need to run boots over something like Life Orb.

[@1stCallipostle]

​@@Richtofen-gy9cjI still personally don't recognize that ban. It wasn't properly tested, had no vote... And reeked of out of game reasons.

[@Toast_94]

Sometimes I really wonder why Gamefreak never bothered to nerf stealth rock despite how over-centralizing it can be. Even something like having half of its effect normally but can be stacked (like spikes) to get its pre-nerf effect back.

[@jouheikisaragi6075]

Cause GF doesn't care for singles. Hazards don't exist in VGC so Rocks being so oppressive doesn't register on their radar.

[@1stCallipostle]

​@@jouheikisaragi6075True. Design the main game around singles for 25+ years, but have doubles be the main competitive format. Personally, I think a doubles based main game with singles as the primary competitive scene would be leagues better

[@jouheikisaragi6075]

@@1stCallipostle they tried that back in Orre. The games weren't well received

[@TheStrudelkittyshow]

@@jouheikisaragi6075I feel like the Orre games were underlooked not because they were doubles focused but because they had a radically different tone from the main games, didn’t let you catch wild Pokémon, didn’t introduce any new Pokémon, and were stuck on the GameCube, the least popular home console of its generation.

[@camgoodkicks]

I know the video goes on about how many threats are tamed by rocks, but I would still rather deal with that army instead of the *one* set-and-forget move that simply says “this mon loses 50%” and is so good it fits on every team. It would be so cool to see a mode for showdown that banned it just to see what happens

[@lindsaywheatcroft8247]

Without rocks, my bestie and I might have seen Let’s Go through. After a few battles where it existed without any of its checks, the whole game completely revolved around it. No rapid spin footsies or mist, just everyone wading through barbed wire.

[@Labyrinth6000]

What if there was an ice version of Stealth rock called Stealth Ice? I'm surprised this never happened.

[@pageclayton6850]

Call it Black Ice, since it's difficult to see and causes major damage

[@Dakress23]

One of these days Stealth Rock is gonna get dexit'd. I just know it.

[@Dan55888]

I would love it, but with all the nonsensical decisions Pokemon makes sadly that will never be one of them

[@ExcalibeonSwordofEeveelutions]

Plot twist: you jinxed it! Now there is Stealth Barbs, Stealth Icicles, Flame Spikes, Zap Spikes, and a one time entry hazard called Trap Mound! (Still working on the name)

[@blueoak5262]

I never really battled against another real person, but I'm always hearing about Stealth Rock and from what I heard the move basically changed the whole landscape of competitive Pokémon battling.

[@merylsmith8297]

A lot of people think of stealth rocks as most significant against those 2x or 4x weak powerhouse threats. But what I consider even more impactful is the implications it has for breaking sash/sturdy/multiscale. If rocks arent in the game, and if no other form of hazards are added to replace it, then Flying/Levitate/Air Balloon just straight up become immunity to hazards as a whole.

[@ShinyTillDawn]

What if Snorlax & Zapdos were banned from GSC OU?

[@CaptainJLinebeck]

They tested banning Snorlax in GSC OU, it just made the meta incredibly slow and boring because people switched to Blissey instead

[@NekuZX]

why do people act like spikes and toxic spikes don't exist when talking about banning stealth rocks...

[@temporaryleadership]

Video idea for you, FSG: “The Bubblebeam Theorem-Why Secondary Effects Matter” There’s lots of impactful moves at 65 BP or lower, but bubblebeam gets relegated to the move set of your early game water type. Shows that the secondary effects of moves matters more than BP! Would be an interesting video to see the different moves you dig up

[@teddyhaines6613]

Bubblebeam's had a measly 10% chance of dropping speed since Gen 2. If it was guaranteed to drop speed then you might actually see people try it out here or there.

[@jirehtheprovider]

Sees Jirachi and her Iron Head and Zen Headbutt empowered chance rate by Serene Grace

[@kevinstephenson3531]

I kinda have a pitch for three new hazards that I think would be interesting. Ghost/psychic one where upon switching into it a random move becomes disabled. Dispelled upon a ghost or psychic switch in. Could make countering threats risky. A fire hazard that applies a burn. Maybe only works in sun and dispelled with water or ice switch in. Could make guts an interesting counter. A fairy type hazard applied to the opponent that heals the hazard setting player’s Pokémon about 12.5% every time the opponent switches out. Does not drain hp.

[@VincentChaos92]

We would live in a better and happy place... Until the metagame will inevitably become a stall and balance fest because it would benefit more these types of teams than the offensive ones most likely. People would also hate Dragonite and Volcarona to infinite

[@smoochywalus3876]

*Charizard just existing* Stealth Rocks: “And I took that personally”

[@joshuasmith6909]

This would be a fun experiment on Smogon!

[@Dexok123]

Banger thumbnail bestie I didn't even read the title I knew I had to watch this