Famous historical figures you didn't know were queer

[@kippiedraws]

Funny thing, Newton being so vehemently repulsed about his peers constantly trying to set him up was one of the first introductions to the concept of asexuality AND was one of the first times where I started thinking "Wait....... that sounds like me"

[@CapriUni]

@@falconeshield Both my parents had died by the time I learned asexuality was a thing, so I couldn't ask them about it... But looking back, I'm pretty sure they were both somewhere on the asexual or aromantic spectrum (demisexual and demiromantic, respectively). And they were my models for what "Straight" looked like. They were married in 1962, BTW.

[@voltijuice8576]

I laughed because I thought he sounded like my opposite, in that regard! As a hyper-sexual autistic person, I pleaded with friends to set me up with someone. But they never did. Just some uncomfortable hand-wringing that I am "a very... special person" 😭

[@CapriUni]

@@voltijuice8576 Grr. How frustrating and insulting. Sorry you had to deal with that.

[@MrMarinus18]

Abraham Lincoln was a Marxist. As in he was a friend and penpal of Karl Marx and he didn't really hide it either. Many of his speeches are straight up Marxism like his insistence on value coming from labor and that capitalists are thieves who just keep the surplus for themselves because they have the power to do that. Teddy Roosevelt was a communist too. It's been swept under the rug but the republican party actually was created as a socialist party, one of the first in the world. American politics is weird because around halfway through the near 200 year long struggle between the republicans and the democrats they swapped ideology.

[@Pereira-hc3wl]

Newton may be asexual, perhaps... but he is also gay for the mathematician Fatio de Duillier, they lived together for several years, and when they separated in 1693, Newton suffered symptoms of a nervous breakdown from which he was never the same again.

[@T-2856]

There's also Alan Turing, the mathematician whom is credited with cracking the Enigma code in the second world war. He was actually arrested in 1952 for being gay.

[@Casterborous]

Not just arrested, he was chemically castrated

[@T-2856]

@@Casterborous I am aware, but didn't really want to get into that.

[@Donnagata1409]

And commited suicide after being unbearably bullied. With a poisoned Apple.

[@MrRjhyt]

Belatedly pardoned, and honoured on the 50 pound note. Too little, and way too late! His achievements were literally world changing, redefining the world we live in now.

[@OurLordOfSkulls8472]

Tho he is often credited for backing the enigma code and did work at bletchley park he didn't actually do it but he did invent the digital computer and is the farther of all modern computers witch I think is a tad better.

[@Venemofthe888]

The first person i came across in queer history was Alan Turing. He was a absolute genius and along with his team he broke the enigma code and at first i had no idea he was gay but once i did he became a bit more of a inspiration to me especially since i want to learn coding. I also watched the Imitation Game the film about him cracking the code with his team (fantastic film btw). Unfortunately him being gay at the time was a crime and he was chemically castrated and died after biting a poisoned apple laced with cyanide. What he did was incredible and had a hand in inventing the computer in a early concept. For us in England he is on the new £50 note being the first gay man to be on any British money. He also got a apology although far too late for what happened to him even having a law named after him that retroactively pardoned men cautioned or convicted under historical legislation that outlawed homosexual acts.

[@Venemofthe888]

id also love to see a part 2 and 3 to this

[@kaworunagisa4009]

Yup. As a queer programmer, I like snidely remarking that programming's parents were a woman (Ada Lovelace) and a gay man. Be careful with the bro culture and good luck coding!

[@lcflngn]

Such a sad story it seems, I hope he had some triumph in between all the ish brought upon him. We all have a ton to thank him for.

[@MrMarinus18]

Another lie many Americans don't know is that the founding fathers were almost all in their 20's or early 30's. They were not wise old men, they were rambuncious youths. Another thing often glossed over is that the vast majority of the soldiers fighting for the British were Americans. The American war for independence was more akin to a civil war with many of the older generation siding with the British and many of the younger generation wanting independence.

[@jin_cotl]

He died from 8uicide 😢

[@catbowserfantasytherapist3132]

I recently started uncovering the history of Hans Christian Anderson. As a kid, they just told us “he was a loner and a bachelor.” But when you uncover all his unrequited loves, of various genders, his super tragic stories make a lot more sense…

[@CapriUni]

I remember learning the history that he wrote "The Little Mermaid" as a direct response to the man he loved ignoring him, and marrying a woman (Warning: Andersen's original version is *very* different than Disney's -- It's almost an "in name only" situation).

[@lcflngn]

@@CapriUniI remember it being creepy, but fascinating. Should reread.

[@dinosaysrawr]

Hans Christian Anderson was bisexual or gay *and* most certainly neurodivergent, and drove Charles Dickens up the wall in a way that is equal parts hilarious and tragic.

[@MrMarinus18]

Thing is average people that are part of the dominant group usually don't make as big a mark on history. It's the ones that stand out, that don't fit in that usually leave the biggest mark. One of the most famous musical geniuses of all time: Mozard actually was hated and looked down on by many of his time.

[@jamellfoster6029]

Wow. I just learned he was queer a few years ago & I'm in my late 40s.

[@sharonoddlyenough]

I will say, a person can be ace and also create art with erotic themes. You don't have to be a murderer to write murder mysteries. Edit: a nice surprise to hear Dom Noble here

[@CouncilofGeeks]

That’s a fair point.

[@FrancisGilkeson]

ace to the nace, lace. to the base. based.

[@aloyznarf]

Hard agree as someone on the ace spectrum who writes nothing but smut (and loves doing so)

[@aloyznarf]

@@falconeshield If you ignore people on the aromantic spectrum maybe

[@CLDJ227]

I too was surprised to hear The Dom in here lol.

[@joshsocshift]

As well as being queer, there's a lot of speculation that Da Vinci had ADHD (eg not finishing projects for years, wide range of interests, etc). So both a gay and ND hero.

[@amy27ro]

it's more like he obsessively worked on them for years, so more like hyperfixations than not finishing.

[@bettyp5669]

A quote attributed to Da Vinci, "art is never finished, only abandoned"

[@elsakristina2689]

He was probably autistic too… and it turns out neurodiverse people are more likely to be LGBTQ+ ^^

[@Superbatmanbro]

Leonardo da vinci is My favorite artist.

[@LURLINE_]

​@@elsakristina2689 more likely to accept themselves as lgbt would be more accurate

[@erikthalman]

This is a great video, Vera! Give us a part 2!!! But I have to clarify a couple things on Emily Dickinson! I studied her in grad school, and my wife and I spent a week at the Dickinson Museum and Institute in Amherst. It is not really disputed or ignored anymore that Emily and Susan had a vibrant sexual relationship from before her marriage to Austin, and continuing after! In fact, it's also celebrated that Austin himself had a longstanding, extramarital, polyamorous relationship with a woman named Mabel Lewis Todd and her husband! These queer relationships are a major feature in tours of the museum (which is in fact the Dickinson and Austin Dickinson homes and estate)!!! 🏳️‍🌈 The Dickinson family: not straight! 😂

[@bluebird6883]

There’s also the TV Show Dickinson and I love seeing a disaster lesbian, it’s a really fun show.

[@islasullivan3463]

^ Yes absolute disaster queer, but she also had a few male lovers as well and the letters she wrote them were just as thirsty as the ones she wrote Susan.

[@bluebird6883]

@@islasullivan3463 this makes it even better - i need to read more of her work

[@islasullivan3463]

^yeah she’s an interesting poet, especially as she used a slant rhyme scheme and different punctuation, making them unconventional for the time. A lot of her adult life is unknown as she seems to have isolated herself more as she got older.

[@islasullivan3463]

Sorry I got the first thing wrong it is speculated she had 7 lovers but not confirmed.

[@Katherine_The_Okay]

Thanks for the Ace representation (and for ALL the Representation; the more we have as a community, the less people can deny our existence)! Maybe it's because I'm older, but I've experienced so many occasions where the Queer community kind of ignores us or pretends we aren't "really" queer. So I wanted to say thank you 🩶 And, of course, Happy Pride! 🏳‍🌈

[@Moshenka]

Let me add: Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky, the famous Russian composer. Russia will do anything to prove the opposite, but there's one disastrous childless marriage, a boatload of letters (from him, friends and family which he wa sout to), his compositions dedicated to men that sound like love confessions and the fact that he died under very suspicious circumstances and there are some small details that point to suicide. # Friedrich Schiller, German poet, author of the Ode to Joy possibly bisexual, also wrote homoerotic poetry and allegedly might have had an affair with Goethe. Michelangelo Buonarotti, the most prolific and influential of Italian rennaissance sculptors. Anyone who has ever seen his paintings and statues of "woman" know he never saw a single one naked. Oscar Wilde, famous English author and queer icon par excellence, was known to detest woman and was criminally convicted of homosexual acts. Paul Verlaine and (possibly) Arthur Rimbaud, two French surrealist authors / poets who likely had an entire affair together. And those are just the European male artists. Mishima Yukio, Japanese author, actor and political activist who exaulted male relationships. Kosaka Masanobu, retainer and lover of Takeda Shingen, one of Japan's greatest daimyo's, with whom apparently they've led a loving relationship up to Takeda Shingen's death. So many have come before us and so many will come after us. We've been surviving through centuries and we will continue to survive through the ages. And though it takes it's time, but the truth always comes out. And when it does it shines with the brightness of the Sun.

[@MrMarinus18]

Ernst Rhom, a critical figure in the Nazi rise to power and seen as equal to Hitler himself who was the main target of the night of the long knives is now very widely believed to be gay. His advances towards men and boys are well known and he worshipped masculinity to a very extreme degree. Rohn really hated anything feminine including his wife and he even applied that distate towards Hitler himself who he saw as far too affeminate. He's a figure that the Nazi's tried to erase from history but most of the Nazi iconography is from him. Hitler himself was the crowd speaker but when it came to the day to day operations of the party and all the violence they commited that was all Rhom. This is also why he was one of the first people Hitler ordered to be killed once he had secured his power. But you can see Rhom's influence in a lot of the homo erotic imagery of the Nazi's.

[@eriknystrom5839]

W. Somerset Maugham should be added to this list. Bisexual, mostly gay.

[@gooderambles]

Some recommendations for Part 2 of this new series: - Julius Caesar - Abraham Lincoln - Frédéric Chopin and George Sands - Piotr Tchaikovsky - Hans Christian Andersen - Angela Davis and Virginia Woolf also sounds good.

[@dandelion_16]

Bram Stoker's also been theorized because of the relationship between Dracula and Jonathan (there's some interesting lines in the book) but idk what the evidence is. Might be interesting discuss that one

[@gooderambles]

@@dandelion_16 Kaz Rowe already did a 35 minute video about the rumors of Stoker's closeted queerness. Look her up. She does wonderful work.

[@dandelion_16]

@@gooderambles oooh thanks for the recommendation! Will definitely look into that!

[@elsakristina2689]

And Queen Kristina of Sweden.

[@lonewolf6884]

I also want to add Nikola Tesla. When I was going a Research papers about him in college I found no Evidence of him being not Romantically involved with anyone. If anything Telsa was Very likely aromantic. Feel free to disapprove me if you wish

[@CouncilofGeeks]

Nah, it tracks. The man was more in love with pigeons than people.

[@marocat4749]

I mean yes, there is notrack o him trying to or ave an air or ailed one.

[@Lennon6412]

Could've been an incel

[@jasonthayer1309]

Sun Rah was a jazz musician and one of the founders of the “Afrofuturism” movement. Dude dressed like King Tut, did crazy jazz music. He was also asexual!

[@johnnyli4702]

I like that there are finally terms we can use on the reactionaries now. "Woke-spotter!" "Status quo warriors!"

[@CLDJ227]

I can see someone making a superhero comic with those names and have some blatant social commentary lol.

[@qwcew]

Don't you mean "Status Quorriors"?

[@cameronheaton9900]

Hey can you make this a yearly tradition? Yes? definitely? absolutely?

[@CareyHAuthor]

Please do a part 2! This was wonderful! I'm a history geek so I had to watch this.

[@Lia-uf1ir]

I second that. Please do a part 2. :)

[@Troy-q6l]

I third this.

[@colinfontenot7561]

I fourth this

[@angelaa7388]

I think it's safe to say, if you write over 100 romantic sonnets about somebody, you want to be more than just friends 😂

[@lcflngn]

Historical logic ;)

[@EloquentTroll]

If you write someone a sonnet, you like them If you write someone 100 sonnets you like writing sonnets (and them).

[@MrMarinus18]

8:15 Niel Armstrong was actually very clearly autistic and very socially awkward. This made him being the first person on the moon somewhat contentious as some felt it should be a more confident and charismatic individual. He was still choosen as he was the captain and the most driven and important though that likely wouldn't have happened without his friend's support. However also afterwards he really hated crowds and would get very unwill when with groups of strangers. This is why most interviews about Apollo 11 are with Buzz Aldrin. Armstrong was anything but a "manly men". He was childlike, awkward, focused, obedient and preferred clear instructions and would never deviate from procedure unless he felt he had to. This focus, imagination and tendency to follow procedure is the main reason why he was made captain despite his lack of social skills.

[@EloquentTroll]

@@MrMarinus18 Niel Armstrong was a generally friendly and genial guy who focused on mission first and foremost from what I've dug up over the years, but him being autistic is in the firmest of maybe categories. Buzz got so much more attention post lunar landing because he's an absolute charisma machine, and I say that knowing full well that he has a violent streak that is beyond acceptable and I wish he would chokeslam more science deniers. You might be right, your evidence is very thin and becomes more nebulous the more you look into it. I'd be very happy to share that with him, but "he's a humble guy" is not the evidence you think. Dude was a test pilot, and you have to buy into your own legend to take that job. Not saying that you're wrong, but most folks are deeply humbled, Buzz Aldren instead took his humbling and then became a rage monster against anyone who sought to deny what he and his comrades experienced. I'd actually bet more on Buzz Aldren being on the spectrum because that kind of rage is deeply in line with what pisses off Autistic people.

[@EloquentTroll]

Don't think we aren't capable of learning charisma, if studying neurotypical behavior is a special interest we can mask very efficiently, given the right motivation we can be absolutely charming, find us instead by our unwillingness to accept what we perceive as bullshit. We aren't immune to bullshit that skews our internal filters, in fact we're even more vulnerable to cults, but incongruity with our internalized system is definitely a thing that rouses our ire.

[@justmike-yt]

William Shakequeer

[@WiloPolis03]

He just like me fr (my name is Will & am queer)

[@HotDogTimeMachine385]

A+ pun! 😄

[@justmike-yt]

@@WiloPolis03 But do you shake?

[@WiloPolis03]

@@justmike-yt 😔

[@bnnuy03]

shake that thang

[@AMoniqueOcampo]

One thing I did as part of my tutoring was going beyond the "great men" narrative and introduced the kids to famous women in history, significant stories of other cultures, books written by writers of color, and even the occasional queer stuff. Example: I introduced the older kids to The Picture of Dorian Gray (by far THE gayest Victorian novel I ever read) and explored the themes of influence (which is a very relevant theme to Gen Z). Also, 57 academics just punched the air.

[@lcflngn]

Lol, probably a lot more than 52 :) Times are changing…

[@MrMarinus18]

We also need to be careful to not treat these people as existing within a vacuum. They were a product of their time and they had interest that pertained to their time.

[@evonnagale3045]

I too had that quote rattling around in my head 😂

[@Leena79]

I knew these, but I was kinda obsessed with the topic when I figure out I was queer. I think the combination of being queer and neurodivergent does that. It sucks how much of queer history has been brushed off, we've lost so much. I hope, in 500 years from now, if we haven't been nuked yet, the diversity of modern time folks isn't such a hush-hush thing. Happy Pride! ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️

[@johnvinals7423]

No insult to Da Vinci, but I kind of hope his affairs with his students were consensual in nature.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

Fingers crossed.

[@johnvinals7423]

@@falconeshield Hell, a lot of Jewish lore holds that Adam and Eve were originally one androgynous being before being split in two, while other pieces of lore hold that Abraham and Sarah were both intersex.

[@sarascarpati887]

​@@johnvinals7423hang on... Really?

[@gozerthegozarian9500]

The good Mr Noble did a splendid reading of Sonnet 20 here! Some years back, Kyle "Brows Held High" Kallgren and Rantasmo did a crossover episode bout Shakespeare's queerness, in which Kyle read this same sonnet. When Rantasmo, in pretend-incomprehension, raised his eyebrows and demanded "Translation?", Kyle summarized Sonnet 20 thusly: "You're hot! Shame about the penis."

[@kyhumphrey5247]

I learned about Julie d’Aubigny, who is considered bisexual. She was also occasionally mistaken for a man (even when not dressed like one), beat three noblemen at sword-dueling in one evening after kissing another woman, and committed arson and body snatching just to run away with another woman.

[@raggletaggle8827]

Thanks for including (possible) aces. I actually couldn't help but smile when you read out Issac Newton's frustrations about his friends trying to hook him up with women. Because, that reminded me of how so many of my peers have tried to push me into dating (obviously in school and college especially - it was boys they'd try to push me to. They could not understand it when I'd eventually lose my patience and tell them how much I would HATE that! But then being the 00s and early 2010s, asexuality still wasn't well known - so then there response would be 'well what about women?' and I'd have to reiterate I didn't want a partner - male nor female. They'd act like I was 'covering up' when really I just did NOT understand why anyone was so desperate to push me into a relationship with anyone) Anyway, as an aromantic asexual - Issac Newton is also now an aroace in my head cannon.

[@v_wegs]

I had the absolute honor of working with Tam O’Shaughnessy when interning at NASA, as she was fighting to set the record straight (lol) in memory of her partner Sally Ride. Tam was promoting her photo memoir of their lives together, and as NASA was celebrating Sally, she wanted to make it abundantly clear who Sally was. It is among the projects I am most proud of, being the writer of Sally’s official NASA bio declaring her as the first LGBTQ+ astronaut. A signed copy of that memoir sits proudly in my living room. Side note, Sally didn’t call herself a lesbian, though Tam does consider both of them lesbians.

[@MCMIVC]

One of Norway's most famous cultural figures during the mid 20th century, Alf Prøysen, was bisexual. This is something he kept hidden through his life and only became public knowledge in 2004, over 30 years after his death. And even after it became know, I feel it's not talked about enough. A lot of his work has a very different feel when read through this lens. Espescially one of his songs called "Trassvisa hennes Tora" (English: Tora's song of stubbornness) which is about forbidden love. It's portrayed in the song as a straight thing, of course, but still... Queer artists hiding tales of forbidden queer love as straight is nothing new.

[@songsofloveresistance8549]

Lovely to see Emily Dickinson and Shakespeare on the list. Both also neurodivergent as heck, but that's another conversation 😏

[@melissamargolese8782]

Also Da Vinci, although always hard to say for sure given the evidence that's available

[@dandelion_16]

@@melissamargolese8782 same for Isaac Newton frorm what I've heard

[@dinosaysrawr]

Yes, yes, and yes! Several of these people were almost assuredly neurodivergent, and that's an equally-interesting rabbit hole in its own right!

[@MrMarinus18]

With artists that does make sense. Morally pius straight Christians were a dime a dozen. You are remembered for standing out from the crowd.

[@elsakristina2689]

Definitely!

[@Paul_Ernst]

great video, and such nice surprises to hear Dom Noble and Roses, 2 of my favourite youtubers!

[@shyathena34]

I knew about all of these ex ept Malcom X. I agree with everything you said about the bard. Also for anyone who would like to read more about the amazing Eleanore Roosevelt I highly recommend The First Lady and The Firebrand. It's about the friendship between ER and Pauli Murrary another queer historical figure. Also read Eleanore and Hick which is all about their relationship and includes their correspondence. Have a great day and enjoy the rest of pride@

[@CapriUni]

I knew most of these... Isaac Newton as Ace was new to me. I'd like to also offer up the suggestion of Hans Christian Andersen, who wrote passionate love letters to both men and women, but was never in a physical relationship with anyone, as a bi-romantic asexual. ...Also, if you read the full version of "The Ugly Duckling" (not the super simplified versions that get made into picture books for toddlers), you'll see at least one scene where the "duckling" worries that he'll be mistaken for the wrong gender. So Andersen *might* (maybe) have also been some flavor of Genderqueer.

[@rohan.shieldmaiden35]

Some notable non-Americans/English include Christina, Queen of Sweden (1626-1689), Friedrich der Große (Frederick the Great) of Prussia (1712-1786) and Marlene Dietrich.

[@JohnBainbridge0]

DaVinci and Shakespeare have always been heroes of mine. This just makes me love them more!

[@tracydale154]

So glad you included Hamilton and Laurens. 🙂

[@Aerinndis]

I'm reminded of one of the most famous examples of a lesbian where men have done their best to deny to it, Sappho the Poet. So famous for her works that she was hailed as the Tenth Muse by the ancient greeks.

[@hotdog1214]

From whence we get the very words, so important was she. The OG lesbian you might say. 😜😜😁😁

[@Aerinndis]

@@hotdog1214 🤭;)

[@raininscotland]

Not usually an emotional person but this video made me cry. Especially grateful for the asexual support and rep 💜

[@kylejones8289]

Oh, if you want to sully the Presidency proper, you easily can. While he may not be the best president to put it lightly (often coming in dead last in rankings), James Buchanan was a lifelong bachelor. He was "close friends" with Alabama politician William Rufus King. They lived together for years and frequently attended social functions together, and many of their contemporaries referred to them (probably jokingly, but possibly in a "nudge, nudge, wink, wink, know what I mean, know what I mean" sort of way) as a romantic couple. Their families also destroyed most of their correspondence after their deaths, and Buchanan was distraught after King's death. Also, Louisa May Alcott, best known as the author of "Little Women," was probably bisexual, and was also possibly trans. She was quoted as saying once, "I am more than half-persuaded that I am a man's soul put by some freak of nature into a woman's body.... because I have fallen in love with so many pretty girls and never once the least bit with any man.” She was known to have had at least one affair with a man (who was probably the model for Laurie).

[@RomeroRomeral]

For another Latin artist: Gabriela Mistral. Chilean poetess recognized internationally for her craft and her dedication to education. She was also very likely bisexual as her love letters to American writer Doris Dana seem to heavily imply. She's even in Chilean currency!

[@MoramothHauntz]

My second favorite fun fact of Fred Rogers is him 26 admitting to being both attracted to men and women

[@lucypreece7581]

One thing I always like to remind people of is the commonly accepted "depiction and image" of Jesus with the long brown hair, blue eyes and very pale skin is actually based on a painting by Da Vinci of a man who was rumoured to be one of his lovers. Like if he even existed at all Jesus would have lived in the middle east. I very much doubt he was white. But I just love that the queerphobic die hard Christians cling to this image of Jesus when if you think about it it is super gay.

[@scars_babygirl]

Fun fact: George Washington Carver was actually rumored to have been bi :) (For those that don’t know, he was an African American agricultural scientist. Look him up, I’m too lazy to type all of his achievements bc theres a LOT)

[@NolaFlower]

Anyone who has read the book that Hamilton the musical was based on would NOT label Alexander Hamilton as straight.

[@TIDELINERUNNERS]

What a lovely video and beautifully celebratory end to Pride month. As a queer person, I don't find this video combative or controversial. I would hope anyone else would see the joy in fully knowing someone... I know this isn't always true. Happy Pride to you and your family. =)

[@nemoignorat2443]

First of all, thanks for including aces into the queer fold :) It was very much fun to listen. (And Dom Noble was a nice surprice :) ) I'd love to hear about more queer historical figures. (Luckily I am European and were at school and uni at a time when no one ever doubted those persons' queerness.)

[@joshuadk13]

I am a historian and I’ll give you my opinion on each of your entries plus some more: 1. Leonardo Da Vinci: Yes he was probably lgbt. 2. Langston Hughes: ehhhh, I’m not sure. Possibly 3. Sally Ride: yes, it’s confirmed. 4. Shakespeare: probably not gay. 5. Alexander Hamilton: probably not gay 6. Emily Dickinson: yes. 7. Isaac Newton: asexual. Definitely 8. Malcolm X: probably not. 9. Eleanor Roosevelt: yes. 100%, and no, They weren’t polyamorous, FDR and her loved each other as best friends, her and Hick were absolutely lovers and it’s well known. 10. Frieda Khalo: yes. Now, one big omission is president James Buchanan and his lover, Vice President William Rufus DeVane King. The letters are… telling. And I’ll just make a note as someone who is lgbt and a historian, the term “status quo warriors” is really not useful. We don’t want to assume wether historical figures were gay OR straight, we go by who they married or who they were confirmed to be with, it’s academically irresponsible to assign modern labels like that to historical figures.

[@enigmatickendo]

I understand you, but given the known eons of homophobia and erasure; is there harm in speculation? Trying to uncover the truth?

[@LaJokanan]

I must admit, I always click on these in the hope of some Alexander the Great love. As a young queer woman, Mary Renault's take on his relationships with Hephaistion and Bagoas (Fire From Heaven and The Persian Boy) were such an inspiration to me, and even now, at the age of 56, I have a bust of him on my bookshelf. But I guess his sexuality is hardly a secret any more :D

[@HotDogTimeMachine385]

The modern idea of Jesus being a long haired white guy is because Da Vinci drew his boyfriend lmao

[@Katy133]

I knew about Leonardo Da Vinci from playing the second Assassins Creed video game (I remember the game touched upon it). Goes to show the edutainment aspect of early Assassins Creed left an impression on players.

[@gozerthegozarian9500]

Oooh, the people offended by the idea that Hamilton may have been queer will absolutely lose their shit when they learn that Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben, the Prussian military officer who whipped the American troops into shape and was rather important in you lot winning your independence from Britain was as gay as a fruit cocktail! That was one of, if not the reason he made it off to America in the first place: He was on the run from the law, sex acts between men being very much illegal in Prussia at the time.

[@frenchfriar]

Most of these I already knew, because of other discussions of queer history. But Malcolm X was a *shock*, not just a surprise... I had never heard a hint of that history. I think one of the more interesting possibilities is Abraham Lincoln's relationship with Joshua Speed, with whom he shared a bed for years. Lincoln also wrote a poem about tro men that were a married couple. Of course, he also was married, and had children, so he may well have just been bi. But not *straight*.

[@GetOfflineGetGood]

I had a professor in college get really condescending because I said that I thought Caravaggio was probably gay. He was like "I think we shouldn't project modern values onto historical figures." Okay sure bud

[@brysimm404]

Everybody knows Elton John as obviously 100% gay today, but people have forgotten that he married a woman back in the 80s before he came out (and admitted his marriage had been a total sham). Proves that you can’t judge anyone’s true sexual identity based on them being straight married :D

[@jujutaylor2186]

Ok with the Dominic Noble cameo! Love him and his channel! Great video btw.

[@moreaugriffins2494]

I think i've seen a few people mention him but - Alan Turing was an english mathematician whose work helped crack the enigma code (though nothing to do with the code was known to the public at the time, since it all had to remain secret). He was gay, and chemically castrated for it :/ the government didn't formally apologise until 2009. I thought it was well known that he was gay, until in one class the teacher did not mention it, despite doing a whole 'who's Alan Turing' thing, and in another class in another school, a teacher mentioned it as an after thought and the class was genuinely shocked to hear he was gay. (he was the first gay person in maths I knew about, and made young teen me realise "oh, so i can be queer and do maths")

[@SplatteredGrin]

I'm, perhaps, a little proud of myself for knowing all of these but one or two. It'd be fantastic to see more videos like this from your channel, Vera. You always deliver with great sincerity and nuance, and it's been a joy watching you over the years. Also, with each utterance of 'Not Straight,' my laughter got a little bit more delirious. You're a gem. 💕💕

[@lucypreece7581]

One of the ones that always causes arguments amongst historians but like shouldn't really be ignored is Queen Anne of Great Britain. She was the last monarch of the Stuart era. The younger daughter of James II. She implemented the Acts Of Union that brought together England, Scotland and Ireland (not separated at the time) as one nation known as Great Britain. She is often forgotten in history. Due to multiple health problems and disabilities she is just seen as fat, old and sickly and just let the men in her government do her bidding but actually she was a very astute strategic military leader and successfully fought off many foreign invasion attempts and strengthened trade routes. She was married and had many children with her husband but none of her children survived childhood sadly. She famously had "favourites" who were women the most well known was a woman called Sarah Churchill. Just like how some people get vexed at the suggestion that one of the founding fathers of the USA was queer in the UK any suggestions of any of the past monarchs being some shade of queer makes some people especially ardent monarchists practically combust with rage (just FYI I am staunchly anti monarchist I just like history) but there are many past monarchs that many historians believe were queer. Queen Anne, James I of England and VII of Scotland, William II of England. KZbin Historian Lindsay Holliday does a few videos on (potential) queer monarchs from the UK. Worth checking out.

[@Neon_talons]

Some of the video to me made it sound like in order to aknowledge a male historical figure's possible queerness, you have to explain away any indication of them being attracted to women. I'm sure this wasn't your intention since you aknowledged bisexuality at the end when talking about Frida Kahlo, so I might just be hyper-sensitive about this stuff, being bisexual myself. I've just noticed this trend that on the rare occasions when a queer male historical figure is recognized as such, people will often talk about it as if them also having been attracted to women is impossible. I obviously wouldn't assume that every man in history who was married to a woman but had affairs with men must have been bisexual in their attraction, because the social pressures of the times often left them no other choice. But I feel like it can go too far in the other direction, where people will go like "Since we know he had relationships with men, clearly when he said he loved this woman he MUST have referred to a deep platonic friendship soulbond!" Again, I don't think this was your intention and I still appreciate you making a video on this. I just had some thoughts on this topic while watching.

[@silverwol844]

Can we have a part 2? As a treat? I knew some of them but Roosevelt took me by surprise.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

It may become an annual Pride Month feature. We'll see.

[@harrietamidala1691]

@@CouncilofGeeks it should be.

[@dazerla]

If this really interests you the Queer as Fact Podcast has been doing this several years. And they tend to spend about an hour or more on each queer person.

[@sarascarpati887]

Really?

[@johnvinals7423]

I had no idea Malcolm X was possibly queer.

[@Maerahn]

I'm a straight cis woman, and I'm deliriously happy you made this video! I can just imagine all the anti-LGBTQ+ people hearing this and stuffing their fngers in their ears and going "NO!! I can't HEAR you - la la-la laaa la-laaaa....!!" with panicked expressions on their faces. So many of them have built their entire level of intolerance for anything not-straight in these modern times on a 'history' consisting of bigoted fantasy and selective omission, and anything that challenges that blinkered viewpoint can only be a good thing. Even making them splutter with discomfort is a start!

[@williamberven-ph5ig]

When researching Lincoln it soon became evident he had a relatively long and intense relationship with a man in his 20s. I believe today he would have been ' gay' but he followed the only socially acceptable path available at the time. The fact remains any group should feel blessed to have such an incredible man as a member of their tribe.

[@_geno_]

abraham lincoln was also most likely not straight, which would probably be even more upsetting than alexander hamilton for them

[@liminal_spice1712]

I hope this becomes a series 😊

[@highway_roadkill]

i recall reading that there's speculation that Abraham Lincoln could possibly have not been straight, with the most notable piece of evidence being that on the day of his wedding, an acquaintance asked him where he was going and he simply responded "to hell."

[@MrMarinus18]

There is also something else about Abraham Lincoln which is often swept under the rug which is that he was a communist. He was penpals with Karl Marx and he gave many speeches about the importance of labour and how it's labour that makes a country great and how capitalists are merely enablers. He wasn't quite on Marx' level of saying the workers should overthrow the capitalists but he was all for using the government to minimize corporate power. He also was a strong believer in federal welfare programs and believed the federal government should protect the liberty and well being of all Americans. (Though rather Indians and blacks were included in that was a bit unclear.) Another republican, Teddy Roosevelt was a firm socialist. Believing that it was the duty of the government that no person would have to resort to theft, prostitutions, squatting or any other illegal activity to feed themselves or their families. He also believed that the minimum wage should allow not just for survival but a dignified life with occasional treats, at least 2 days a week off, a vacation that allows you to visit a state across the country, able to have healthy food with a healthy amount of choice and so on. Basically what we today would call a lower-middle class lifestyle. He believed this should all be possible on a minimum wage. He also believed very strongly in high taxes on corporations and that the government needs to enforce very strict regulations on corporations to force them to act for the public good. Many MAGA republicans like to paint today's wave of socialist sentiment as a foreign invasion and that the past never had it. But in truth the men of the late 19th and early 20th century were more boldly socialist than any politician today. Bernie Sanders would never dream of setting the same standards that Teddy Roosevelt did.

[@Lia-uf1ir]

14:33 - 14:39 As Hamilton says: consent is key to any relationship.

[@petershriver9209]

Oh, Hi Dom! nice surprise. Also, thanks for being the first stop on my journey to write a presentation!

[@dinosaysrawr]

Historical figures be like "Verily, my beloved, I want you inside of me" and status quoists be like "Aww what a wholesome friendship for the ages."

[@xrgg7111]

Mentioning Leonardo without bringing up Michelangelo... I mean, come on!

[@WaywardAce420]

Donatello, too.

[@elsakristina2689]

They’re not on the list, but next to Leonardo da Vinci the one who fascinates me the most is Queen (King) Kristina of Sweden. Long story ahead but bear with me, you’ll be amazed. Kristina became the monarch of Sweden in 1632 at barely six years old but didn’t gain actual authority until their eighteenth birthday in 1644. They refused to ever get married or have children, so they adopted their older male cousin as their son to make him their heir in case something were to happen to them and also to prevent a civil war. At Kristina’s coronation in 1650 they were actually crowned king and took the coronation oath as king. In Swedish law at the time queens were only considered the wives of kings and a king didn’t necessarily have to be male. Just four years later Kristina, who was only 27 at the time, abdicated the throne in favour of the cousin (who became King Karl X Gustav effective immediately) and left Sweden and started a journey across northwestern Europe. While traveling through Denmark Kristina had to wear a disguise for safety due to things still being hostile between that country and Sweden. Kristina wore a full men’s outfit for the first time. They’d worn the shoes before but nothing more than that until now. When they arrived in Brussels in December 1654 Kristina did the next most shocking thing ever: they converted to Catholicism, but the conversion wasn’t publicly announced until Kristina confirmed it in Innsbrück in November 1655. The very next month they arrived in Rome at last, and aside from stays in Hamburg, two visits to Sweden, and two visits to France, Kristina lived in Italy for the rest of their life. When they passed away in 1689 at age 62, they were buried in none other than St. Peter’s Basilica. For centuries and even already during Kristina’s lifetime it’s been claimed that they were biologically intersex or at least had something going on with their hormones because they were mistaken for a boy at birth (according to their unfinished autobiography) and as an adult there are firsthand, secondhand and thirdhand descriptions of them having a deep voice, a masculine facial structure and even a few tufts of beard. It’s also possible that Kristina was autistic, the main reasons given are that they were very logical, often missed social cues, and had little to no comprehension of or desire to act according to most social norms, but in my research I’ve found so many more reasons in support of this theory. The biggest thing is that as far as we know Kristina only ever had two serious lovers, one woman and one man: the first was Countess Ebba Sparre from 1644 until 1654 and Cardinal Decio Azzolino from 1655 until 1689, and it’s possible that Kristina was either ace or demi in both relationships. Kristina wrote passionate letters to both of them, and although it’s been questioned how much Cardinal Azzolino reciprocated Kristina’s feelings, it turns out he loved them just as much, to the point that he was usually allowed to write to them mostly informally, and after their death he fell into a deep depression and followed them just a few weeks later (from illness). For the rest, in addition to their native Swedish Kristina was fluent in French (their favourite), Italian, Latin and German, they also knew Danish, Dutch, Spanish and Finnish, and they dabbled around with Hebrew, Arabic, Ancient Greek and even English. As lengthy as this comment is, this is just a little taste of Kristina’s story.

[@lizardinthedark3342]

Just want to point out that Hamilton being attracted to women is pretty well established, given his actions later in life (the man had seven children and one of the most famous M/F affairs in the history of America); what's most likely IMO is that he was bisexual. Hamilton's letters aren't consistent in expressing dread around his wedding, and in some places express excitement for the possibility of inviting Laurens to his WEDDING NIGHT. He makes it pretty clear that he's enthusiastic to have sex with his wife, and then says that he really, REALLY wants Laurens to be present when that happens. There's a vague historical fig leaf for this in the (antiquated even then) idea of having a witness to "prove" that the bride was a virgin. However... let's just say that in the context of some of the other things Hamilton wrote to Laurens, as quoted in the video, I do feel like he may have expected slightly more participation in this case. (This letter makes for an amusing history in-joke in the musical. Historically, Laurens wasn't able to make it to the wedding, as he was imprisoned by the British at the time, but in the musical, Laurens IS at the wedding... and then Hamilton's son, who probably would've been conceived around that time, is played by the same actor as Laurens. I'm not the first to point out that it kinda seems like they're implying Laurens was... ahem... involved in the proceedings.)

[@lizardinthedark3342]

Oh, there was also that one time the famously gay military strategist George Washington imported from Germany to keep the American troops organized, the Baron von Steuben, let Hamilton and Laurens jointly host a party in his tent. Theoretically in order to honor the troops who were suffering supply shortages, all the men in attendance showed up in some state of undress. Typically that meant no breeches, leaving them basically going commando in tights (hose) the entire time. Furthermore, the food served was, I kid you not, meat and nuts, along with an early precursor to flaming cocktails, called "salamanders."

[@Donnagata1409]

@@lizardinthedark3342 Really? Meat and nuts? That's pretty out there... 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@lizardinthedark3342]

@@Donnagata1409 Even when he had absolutely nothing else, Alexander Hamilton always had The Audacity.

[@littlegreensunflower3547]

I'd love to see this continue as a series! This is so interesting!

[@jasonthayer1309]

Hey, you got Dom Noble to do the readings! Woot!

[@petrairene]

Just coming from a visit to the Munich pride. Frederick the Great of Prussia was definitely as gay as they come, there is no debate or glossing over the fact. When he was a young man his father had his companion/friend/lover executed. He had a wife but never lived with her, and I think, no children. Oh and he abolished torture and loved his riding horses and was particularly fond of his hand selected palace guard. Ludwig II from Bavaria (the guy who had Neuschwanstein built) was also possibly gay.

[@jamesharms748]

His brother Henri was as,well. Fun factoid, Henri was considered to be such an upstanding, intelligent, and enlightened leader that it was suggested that he would make a great president. Someone missed that whole royalty idea methinks.

[@Hey-Its-Dingo]

On the topic of "uncomfortable queer rep in history" based on what I have read about him: Legendary human dumpster fire, Howard Phillips Lovecraft, was VERY LIKELY a sex repulsed asexual. He was not aromantic, he loved his wife greatly, but he always talked about sex of any kind with a similar revoltion that he spoke of people of color and lower classes.

[@robinm1331]

It has been incredibly difficult to track ace history into the past. We know there were ace people, but it is so easy to hide. I look back at historical figures, writers, scientists, and icons and am only left to wonder.

[@spanky814]

Wendy Carlos Tove Jansson A couple of the first queer famous people I knew of growing up

[@Ulffy]

It is quite safe to assume that Nikola Tesla was aro-ace (If you don't take into account his romantic feelings for a pigeon). Dude went full nope on intimate relationships for 86 years while being eye-candy to his increasingly thirsty audiences. Every comment helps engagement 🎉

[@Drakewhobesilent]

I heard isaac newton said being a virgin was the greatest thing he ever accomplished , so was probably definitely ace.

[@lammieshipper]

Another cool historical gay is Caravaggio, a famous painter 🫶

[@alexandernicholl5772]

Even though we are coming to the end of pride month I would love a part 2 for this, it's very interesting especially for someone who has been questioning their sexuality lately

[@knitandcatboodle]

I love learning about historical figures and their "really good friends." Thank you for your work!

[@Rmlohner]

One of my favorites is Washington Irving. The first great American writer, and generally considered the first person to primarily make their living as a writer, he also very likely had romantic affairs with at least a couple of the men in his large group of friends. Brian Jay Jones' biography offers a great summation of the evidence.

[@superkid801]

Excellent video. I knew about Leonardo and for some of the others was quite surprised and interested to learn. It’s important we learn this because it’s a part of our world and to bring representation is needed in this world. I enjoyed this

[@iCassieWolfe]

Loved this! I knew a lot of these but not all of them. Id love to learn some new ones. Please do a part 2!!!

[@hotdog1214]

Thoroughly enjoyable. Some were new and others I knew, sort of in passing because of that knack of it being 'removed' whenever historical figures are spoken about. The extracts and exerts of letters was particular revealing and makes one wonder how it could be seen as anything other than what it is - the heteronormative lens sure is strong on some recollections of history! 🙂🙂 This is the kind of Council content that is top of my list; both entertaining and informative, I love learning about the history of those who went before us, not only interesting but makes a pleasing connection with the past. I'll also echo the other comments, this 26 minutes flew by, so consider my vote placed for a Part 2 please! 🙏🙏🤞🤞

[@wolf1066]

"She married a man, so clearly men were more important to her than women." ... yeah, _riiiiiggghht_ 'cos she would _just as easily_ have been able to *marry a **_woman_* if she wanted, eh. (do I really need a sarcasm flag, here?)

[@cameronvansant2108]

I love the phrase "status quo warriors" it's such a solid burn and so accurate for so many people

[@Whimorbood]

Thats why i loved my highschool teacher, he would honestly say things even in times of when if someone would find out he was teaching history honestly in times where not following propaganda would end up with him being fired or even jailed and even murdered (Poland in PRL times) even tho he is a straight man he would teach history as it was, giving us rumours and telling that this person loved men and being with men or this person preffered to dress up in mens or womens clothing (of course crossdressing doesnt mean queerness but its still non comformity and teaching people in the past also did it is so important) Also i share birthday with 2 possibly queer composers which makes me very happy since i love music (its Tchaikovsky and Brahms)

[@deliriumzer0]

I would LOVE a part two to this if you ever get around to it! Really glad you mentioned Malcolm X, i did a report on him in middle school and I felt like everyone just ignored that possibility. Genuinely hadn't known about Eleanor Roosevelt so thanks for that bit as well!

[@ricucci-hillmusic]

Great video! As a queer composer, people in my field have less of a willingness to accept just how many beloved composers were queer, or if they do accept it they try to say it didn't influence their music, I once had an argument with somebody that Tchakovsky, the poster child of gay composers, that Tchaikovsky's sexuality had no effect on his musical output. Like... for Gods sake, he wrote the violin concerto because he was in love with a twink violinist. The 4th Symphony? A monument to the struggles of living as a queer person in deeply conservative Russia. In fact, most of what we consider to be the grandfathers of American classical music (Bernstein, Copland, Barber, Cage, and, further, Wendy Carlos) all queer!

[@fairynerdy]

What's funny about Da Vinci is that one of his lovers, nicknamed Little Devil, is also allegedly the model for white Jesus. 🤣

[@superpheemy]

Sally Ride: Lesbian. That's right sibz. LGBTIA+ are in *SPACE* bitches! And we've been in space for 40 years!

[@queens.dee.223]

This reminds me of the History is Gay podcast. They often have a similar format of discussing historical figures or groups and rating the certainty of their queerness. I'm rarely surprised by the news that some historical figure was queer at this point. I kind of just assume everyone is.

[@voltijuice8576]

An inspiring one for me is 20th century composer and (under-rated!) poet John Cage. Even though most of his music wasn't very popular, he was one of the most influencial music and art theorists through a time of tremendous cultural and technological upheaval. He wasn't "out" to the public during his life, but his decades-long relationship with dancer Merce Cunningham wasn't exactly a secret. I've always found inspiring that with his love of creative processes, he chose to be a composer despite being nearly tone-deaf. Leading to rather "outside the box" approaches to appreciating sound and music. I lived near Cage in his later years and hoped to run intro him sometime. I didn't seek him out because I felt that I didn't have much to say other than squee over him!

[@merri-toddwebster2473]

I was an English major and took two semesters of Shakespeare, taught by a professor who basically said, "If it *can* be a sex joke, it *is* a sex joke" in Willie's writing.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

That professor isn’t wrong.

[@ERICHOWARD-no4zb]

Yep. William Shakespeare hated to pass up on a sexual pun.

[@casualcraftman1599]

I'm glad I learn history and mythology from awesome asexuals.

[@CDKohmy]

Learning queer history has helped spark purpose to my degree and interests. Ancient history has a plethora of queer history as it seems to have been more accepted then.

[@SPDYellow]

It can get really ridiculous the extents people will go to, to write queer people out of our history. I cannot find the article, but I remember reading one about letters King James wrote to another man. The article gave the usual "we can't be certain of the nature of this relationship" kind of spiel while at the same time, the article admitted that King James built a secret passage in his castle so he could see this man more often and, in these letters, frequently referred to this man as his husband. Yeah, that's something totally platonic, straight best bros do, refer to each other as their spouse and build secret passages so they can sneak around more easily. I wonder how the fundies would feel about finding out that the guy behind their favorite translation of the Bible, King James, was likely Gay or Bisexual. And it couldn't be possible that some of the people involved with the translation project, had grievances that may have affected their translations.

[@Sara_TheFatCultureCritic]

Great video. This is something you could do every Pride with more people.

[@JactheKnave]

Oh my gosh I want this to be a series you do!

[@hiddenechoes]

I love this video! So much great stuff all at once! Especially loving the readings and the quotes, very fun.

[@Brunoxsa]

Thank you for the video, Vera! Nowadays, the current trend is not being queer (especially being trans). It is actually we coming to the realization that it is okay to be queer (despite cisheteronormativity still being shoved down our throats). We have the language and concepts to question ourselves and find out where we fit (or not) in the queer spectrum. However, in the past, people do not have access to similar information, so it is not a surprise that many queer historical figures did stay in the closet, especially in order to avoid (the relatively worse) persecution at the time. I really hate the deification of the founding fathers! Some people like to pretend of them being these flawless figures, and try to dismiss the fact of the founding fathers being slave owners. It does not matter if it was common at the time. Treating another human being as a slave is not right now and it was not right in the past! 11:44-12:28 Oh, beautiful book reviewer, Dominic Noble! 17:20-17:43 And also spooky and classic TV, movies and games reviewer, Sarah Wilson from PushingUpRoses!