Neil Gaiman Fallout (Sandman, Good Omens, and more)

[@CouncilofGeeks]

NEW NOTE (1/13/2025) - I am aware of the new article from Vulture (published 1/13/2025), which not only backed up the accounts found by Tortoise but uncovered more women with similar allegations. I don't currently plan to make an additional video due to this, because it doesn't alter any of my conclusions. I said I might talk more if something came out that upended the picture that was forming about Gaiman, and this only affirms that picture. There isn't the reporting problems with the Vulture article that there was with Tortoise Media, so all that there would be for me to do is catalog the new instances and repeat my conclusion from my second video ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/hmeTmJmmabt1h7M ). And simply put, I have no desire to do that. (original note) So a lot of folks are saying I skipped Dead Boy Detectives, when the truth was I chose not to include it. In hindsight I should have given a mention to it just to avoid confusion, but here's why I didn't have it in the video: 1) Gaiman was barely involved in the project, with both the source material and the show. Gaiman technically created the characters in the same way Allan Moore created John Constantine: he may have been the originator of the characters but the solo adventures that define them have always been written by other people. 2) He has an executive producer credit, but there's no indication he was actively involved in the project. This is common for "original creators" to have on things that basically have nothing to do with them otherwise. It's the appearance of a sign off on the project without needing actual work from them. 3) The cancelation doesn't appear to be tied to the accusations. Now, that is a bit of a supposition on my part, but when Netflix cancelled it what was cited was the ratings. It started strong but fell off quickly, falling out of the top 10 in a matter of weeks. This means there wasn't sustained interest or much repeat watching going on. I will grant that it's possible it was "on the bubble" over the ratings and the scandal was the killing blow, but there's no way to prove that in either direction. It really just looked to me like Netflix being Netflix.

[@KaizeharuMushPlays]

@CouncilofGeeks yep I agree tho personally I'd Rather Netflix complete a series before black listing a creator Rather than cancelling

[@MatthewFabb]

Henry Selick was also developing an stop-motion animated version of Neil Gaiman's "The Ocean At the End of the Lane" with ShadowMachine. ShadowMachine is most famous for Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio and Robot Chicken. Henry Selick told Variety that he had 35 page treatment for the movie and that there had been some concept art and that it was the next major movie he was going to work on. Selick said he considered the movie a companion piece for his Coraline which he also did with Gaiman. The novel has nothing to do with Coraline and I imagine that he was trying to rope those two pieces together was more for marketing given the long term success of Coraline. Now there's been no update on what's happened to Selick's The Ocean At the End of the Lane", but I'm expecting that ShadowMachine are quietly pulling the plug on the movie and that Selick will move onto another project. That's pure speculation on my part but The Ocean At The End of the Lane is semi-autobiographical featuing a young boy who is based on Neil Gaiman. There's no way to seperate that story from Neil Gaiman himself, so I don't really see how they can move forward with the movie.

[@williammorahan4907]

@@MatthewFabb I’m very sorry to learn that. I hope that they’ll at least be able to adapt other books in the near future.

[@bethelbethel845]

I live very close to the town that Dead Boy Detectives was supposedly set in. There was a lot of local buzz about a show set here before the premiere. But local FB groups were not impressed with how little the fictional town was to the real thing. We’re also where the Netflix drama series Maid is set. And when that first aired the local FB groups were abuzz for a solid week. What I’m attempting to point out is that Dead Boy Detectives was just plain garbage. Every bit of it. It was so bad that a tourist town that it was supposedly set in could not be arsed to as much as *watch* the show, let alone attempt any spooky tie-ins to draw tourists. I mean. F Gaiman. But the show failed miserably on its own total lack of merit.

[@hanwirtz4305]

It's a shame because I really liked it 😅

[@wallhagens2001]

Some abusers get projects cancelled, some get to be re-elected. It's a crazy world.

[@januarymilk9347]

the only difference is time - gaiman will work again once the dust settles. it's a crazy world but a predictable one

[@franciscasoto9977]

Another difference is the right vs left, former Neil's former fanbase was mostly composed of people from the left who actually cares about victims of SA and r*pe, the right is formed by people guided from vibes, not a moral code or values

[@Horus070]

@@wallhagens2001 indeed… it’s the highest irony we are forced to live in the country and won’t be a way to bind from … unless you leave or … goes insane

[@villings]

people should realize by now 1) the us is full of shitty people 2) those who aren't shit, are very fucking lazy and rather tweet furiously about the elections than to actually get up and fucking vote

[@ShyyGaladriel]

Yeah. It’s really telling.

[@DrewDesign]

I can't believe i waited years for a Sandman adaptation only for it to land when the author is dead to me.

[@curtismckenley8706]

But we don't even know if its true or not

[@antonellamR2D2]

Same, my friend. I lived so long in his world, now I hate him so much

[@sirkillian]

@@curtismckenley8706 Innocent until proven guilty.

[@CarysCreatesThings]

@@sirkillianHe admitted himself that what the nanny said was true, though he claimed it was consensual. This was his employee who was 40 years his junior. He hired her to look after his son, and he climbed into the bath with her on her first day working for him. He admitted to all of this. Whether people believe she consented or not, there was a definite power imbalance, and the fact that he would think doing something like this is in any way acceptable completely put me off him.

[@ContextWrench]

@@antonellamR2D2 you built your own version of the world in your imagination. You get to keep that. You don’t need his tools anymore ❤️‍🩹

[@flipina]

I wasn't a Gaiman fan, but Good Omens hit different for me. I read somewhere that it was more Pratchett, and that's why Good Omens sharing the same fallout feels a shame.

[@cedricappleby2006]

Good Omens is _very_ Pratchett, yeah. You can tell it's not 100% him, but his contributions are front and center.

[@darrenleiberman3773]

​@cedricappleby2006 it's always been the subject of friendly argument between me and my mate. I discovered Gaiman through reading Good Omens being a massive Pratchett fan. He came from the opposite direction. When ever we talk about Good Omens, I claim that it is mathematically provable that it is 70% Terry and 30% Neil. You can guess what his counter claim is. 😊

[@HuntingViolets]

There’s an old Pratchett interview doing the rounds where he says he wrote the larger percentage.

[@SmartStart24]

Same. I couldn’t care less about Neil Gaiman but I truly love Good Omens and honestly Sandman was a good watch for me too. But it’s still“fuck Neil Gaiman” over here.

[@Dragoon91786]

Yeah, that's what gets me. Gaiman's actions have gone and screwed over Pratchett's legacy. GO is DEFINITELY PRATCHETT. Like, it reads like something an old wizardly dude who becomes fascinated with goblin culture in Elder Scrolls: Oblivion and then proceeds to help some young computer programmer and modder to further develop and expand her initial companion, giving away his writing for free, and working on it in lieu of what his editors were demanding, rather the child of scientology that seems to have never fully separated himself from the abusive ideology and culture.

[@calumbishop7082]

Here is a thing we have to remember, while Gaiman was involved in the writing of numerous works many of his supposed 'greatest works' were done in collaboration with other individuals. His comics were done alongside a multitude of artists who put their heart and soul into the work and deserve credit also. Several of his books had co-authors such as Good Omens with Terry Pratchett, many also had illustrators for the illustrated ones (e.g. the Coraline book) who deserve credit for their art as well. Many of the TV and Movie projects he's worked on whether it be his Doctor Who episodes or American Gods or Coraline among many examples, rely heavily on the performances of the actors and directors and they just as if not more important to the creation of those works than Gaiman. It is a shame that everyone else's work has been partially tainted now, but their work is still valid and deserves to be appreciated in spite of what Gaiman has done.

[@Aros4]

YES EXACTLY!! People are very quick to just want to throw away everything that Gaiman has done but honestly??? As much as I love these stories whats most devastating are all the talented people involved that just lost a steady paycheck or a huge opportunity because of one man’s action. Like the kids from Dead Boys Detectives were brilliant and they only had more seasons to build that rapport and find new opportunities. I’m pretty sure there was going to be some actors debuting in Sandman as well. Also, with how bad the animation industry is right now all the cgi employees that must’ve been let go must be devastating. I think for AT LEAST Good Omens which was already going to end in one season they should’ve just fired Niel and finished it up. Like I don’t give a shit about the millionaire but I do about all these hard working and talented people that don’t deserve to suffer the consequences of all this

[@empty_akuma6577]

I honestly don't understand how we allow a single individual to ruin everything for everyone else involved. Why did cancel culture come this far? Of course we have to call out and condemn the misconduct and vile actions, but why tear down all the people who had nothing to do with it? By claiming to punish the culprit they disrespect and destroy the hard work of hundreds of other people and that is in my opinion just wrong.

[@EmlynBoyle]

Good point. Without the numerous artists, letterers, etc involved, Sandman would be a much lesser work.

[@Aros4]

@@empty_akuma6577 I honestly see this specific case as not a “cancel culture” thing but a corporate thing. Think of all the people that have done way worse things but haven’t gotten their stuff cancelled by corporations even though they are shunned by society. I honestly wonder what is there to gain for these companies. Easy excuse for a budget cut? Good segway to cut off queer representation?? That last one is a bit more conspiratorial but idk

[@talonhammer]

it feels like a mix of overly zealous corporate pr and fans genuinely being turned off. I mean I removed Good Omens from my shelf because I didn't feel like lookin at it, but I didnt remove Discworld or anything.

[@Duraffinity]

I am absolutely going to watch Good Omens S3, not for Gaiman, but for Tennant and Sheen. I want to support their work, and I already love what they have done with those characters making them their own. It's easier to do this knowing that Gaiman has walked away from the project. As for the other NG stuff, I haven't gotten around to reading any of the original work nor have seen any of the adaptations. But now I don't feel the inclination to anyway, so it's all moot.

[@solve756]

And for Sir Terry Pratchett, who hasn’t had much luck with getting his work on screen and who does not deserve to be ignored.

[@VojtechRozsival]

Mixing up personality and work of any artist is imho either hypocrisy or simply bullshit. There were tons of artists who were abusers, egomaniac, rapists, pedos, nazis... you name it (James Brown, Ernest Hemingway, Michael Jackson to name few). I bet that many of the artists you like you have no idea about their personality or their personal life. And i think it is better. Dumping Neils books because of he might be a dickhead is imho stupid. As a human he should go to jury. But what the hell does it have to do with his work? (spoiler: nothing)

[@kyrauniversal]

I adore Coraline. I loved Good Omens. My favorite Doctor Who episode was The Doctor's Wife. It was the only episode that gave The TARDIS a chance to speak for herself, besides Bad Wolf. It just hurts that he literally acted more like House did, compared to The Doctor.

[@RingRingRingItsTheBananaPhone]

The Tardis talks??? I've only seen the mOiStUriZe mEEE episode

[@username.exenotfound2943]

@@RingRingRingItsTheBananaPhone its always been able to really since tardis are living beings(they are griown) just FAR beyond pretty much all living beings just choosees not to unless it needs to

[@colleenmarin8907]

@ringringitsthebananaphone The Doctor's Wife episode gives the Tardis a voice, in a creative way. I have only seen thru the first season of the 12th Doctor; but I'd definitely recommend watching thru at least Season 7 Episode 5

[@kyrauniversal]

@@colleenmarin8907 Not only that, if you listen to the audio story of Zagreus, it makes a lot more connections than people think.

[@EmeraldLavigne]

Yeah, it fucking hurts and fucking sucks really fucking bad

[@beckswoof9990]

I think Sir Terry actually said, in a resurfaced interview, that he ended up writing about 75% of the book

[@ineffablepenguin5052]

Yep, I asked his daughter Rhianna on Twitter and she confirmed that he did! Makes me very happy.

[@stevenhanley5505]

If you have read plenty by both authors, it becomes somewhat intuitive which characters were the focus of which author. I came into the book as a huge Pratchett fan, and it always felt more like a Pratchett book than a Gaiman one.

[@FireSilver25]

This is a relief

[@grimreads]

We are talking about Neil Gaiman here, probably Terry Pratchett wrote the entire book in spirit and then Neil put in some fancy words and big brain retakes of his best ideas.

[@Mightymoxie]

@@stevenhanley5505it really did though, from the humor to the characters.

[@LittleMMCX]

Sendarya on KZbin has been getting in depth of what's been happening with the Good Omens S3 production, especially since the allegations came out. From what I remember of what was said in her videos, Rob Wilkins (executive producer of GO/Pratchett's former assistant) and Terry Pratchett's daughter rescued the production from being completely cancelled (a BIG thank you to them) and it possibly sounds like the BBC is more involved again, like it was for Season 1. At least a Script Editor has been hired to help rework NG's nearly finished scripts into 1 movie script. I highly recommend having a look into her videos and streams if you want more info.

[@gRinchY-op5vr]

I had read before this video it was basically becoming a straight to streaming movie, an hour and 30 to 45 mins I believe? So no 3rd season just a series finale.

[@greenghoul157]

​@gRinchY-op5vr The finale will be 90 minutes long, still nowhere near enough for what was meant to be season 3 but I'll take it over complete cancellation

[@domicofo]

@@greenghoul157 all of the season two could be put in a movie if filler stuff was cut out lol, I can't believe ppl liked that boring season

[@TommyBNoE]

A personal downside to the aftermath of all of this: The Graveyard Book was heavily rumoured to shoot in my local area. I’m just starting my career in the Film and TV industry but had people that knew people that were going to be on that so had a chance of getting to work on that. Outside of that, that’s now a hole in my local film and tv calendar that they weren’t expecting to be there. Even if I didn’t get a job on that, having a big production like that shoot here would have been incentive to Disney and other major companies to come back and shoot more stuff here, so having it be no longer in the pipeline means that we’re going to be waiting even longer for the next big production to come here. This isn’t just Gaiman losing work, this isn’t just a few higher ups, this is hundreds of crew members, and people like me who are only just starting out and for whom The Graveyard Book would have been a great opportunity, who are now missing out on those opportunities and those potential jobs. Gaiman’s actions have widespread consequences, from both the people he personally and directly affected, to people like me whose local film industry he has likely hurt.

[@samcyphers2902]

Which role were you angling for? Silas, maybe?

[@Parzivle]

Ive been waiting for a graveyard book adaptation since i was a child. Its terrible that an industry is hurt and a good story is being kept from wider audiences because the author is a fuckin creep.

[@mrcephalopod]

I'd not considered that aspect of this situation, but that's a massive point. I hope another good work opportunity comes your way soon

[@NoelleTakestheSky]

We can’t keep letting bad people use innocent people as shields from accountability. Allowing that has enabled them to skate by without consequences.

[@endor8witch]

He's not responsible for people's jobs. Sorry. But he is responsible for people he hurt through lack of impulse control

[@ItsMeHarry]

Just noticed that you now have subtitles on your videos proper, a welcome added bit of accessibility ❤

[@WillRichards5]

Don't all KZbin videos have subtitles?

[@YourQueerGreatAuntie]

@@WillRichards5 There's a massive difference between auto-captioning and actual subtitles checked and edited by a human. I'm visually impaired rather than D/deaf or hard of hearing, but I've had to rely on assistive technology for about 30 years. Tech progress can improve some access, but those who don't rely on it don't appreciate its short-falls. There's no replacement for humans who understand what they're doing.

[@kashiichan]

​@@YourQueerGreatAuntieAgreed, however it doesn't seem that there is punctuation included? So it's just one very long run-on sentence, which isn't ideal.

[@ItsMeHarry]

@@WillRichards5 I mean manually added captions instead of auto-generated

[@deseuryderia]

@@YourQueerGreatAuntieand subtitles that are just used for jokes/trolling. i don’t have a hearing disability and just like having subtitles on, but troll subtitles are SO annoying. 😭😭

[@3xfaster]

God I knew the radio silence on tumblr was serious, he used to answer asks like everyday, this jsut really confirms it.

[@ms-literary6320]

He was a tumblr favourite. But I think he knows they’d tear him apart now and is just avoiding it

[@EmlynBoyle]

His silence has been deafening.

[@floraalomari3522]

I'm sure his lawyers have advised him to maintain silence.

[@christabelle__]

Hey - I like your shoelaces! But yeah... the quiet on the Tumblr front was foreboding - it made me nervous that it was all true, and I didn't want to know more at first...I wanted to have people do in-depth research and get the truth. But now... it's heavy knowledge to bear. And now that I know... now that Vera has enlightened me? O O F.

[@williammorahan4907]

@@floraalomari3522 most definitely.

[@robo3007]

The cancellation I feel the most let down by is Dead Boy Detectives... that series had so much potential

[@ZeldaQueen64]

Agreed. I understand why his adaptations are being canned and consequences for awful behavior is always more important than a show I like, but I really enjoyed the chemistry of the cast and was looking forward to how the threads from the Season 1 finale would play out.

[@foxesinboxes3751]

I came to the comments just to see if anyone even remembered this show. I loved it so much but I think the fact that it is so forgotten probably meant it was doomed despite the scandal. Absolute tragedy.

[@celia1888]

Yeah the worst part is that it's one of the shows he was the least involved in

[@suikim9194]

😢😢

[@CouncilofGeeks]

I haven’t gotten around to it but I didn’t include it because I don’t think Gaiman’s issues were a factor. It tracked with Netflix’s usual BS.

[@angryotter9129]

Petition for more Sir Pratchett adaptations. He didn’t deserve to be attached to this sinking ship.

[@PartanBree]

It sucks that Good Omens was the first adaptation of Pratchett's work I had yet seen that actually captured the spirit of his writing, and wasn't just "hee hee wizards" cheesy fanservice. Maybe I've missed one but I've never seen an adaptation that didn't care more about the window dressing than the actual plot and characters.

[@citrinedragonfly]

I hate that someone I respected as an author and artist has behaved in such a vile manner. That said, I'll still watch the last installment of Good Omens and the second season of Sandman. And I still hope that Sandman does get further seasons. The cast and crew have done phenomenal things with the stories, and the series gives all of them good work in a prestige show. I want them to show me the rest of the stories, especially with the tidbits that dropped during season 1 about later stories and story arcs. Sandman was such a formative work for my household when we were teens (and the Death spinoffs as well), that divorcing ourselves completely from it cannot happen. There are plenty of writers out there who could adapt the comics and continue the story and do a phenomenal job of it. Vera, your nuanced take of situations, and your speculation, is always appreciated. It helps to hear your personal moral struggles, because it reminds me, at least, that we all have to grapple with things that are hard regarding what we consume, and we shouldn't just consume mindlessly. Thank you.

[@alanpennie8013]

Sandman was my favourite show of 2022. I'll definitely watch a second season.

[@username.exenotfound2943]

might as well just read the sandman comics some of the best comics ever written

[@citrinedragonfly]

@@username.exenotfound2943 We have. Many times. That's why we want to watch the series. We like the adaptation.

[@BelleShadow]

God, I hope they don't cancel Sandman. I love that series. It's gonna be so unfair

[@Mr-Rinn]

If Sandman is renewed then I hope Gaiman is dropped from it.

[@TheJennnq]

This SUCKS! Not so long ago I was thinking, "at least we have Neil Gaiman." Damn.

[@princessthyemis]

yeah! he's been a favorite author of mine for ages and ages, and i used his writing quotes to inspire me! plus my sister and i bonded because of Coraline....now this happens. :(

[@v-zr9cz]

Ngl the first work of his i read was American gods where every single woman is introduced and characterized by her breasts. He is the OG breasted boobily guy but I think his popularity from much friendlier works like good omens overshadowed a lot of his obvious flaws.

[@ivanagustinortiz5237]

Now we can say "Todd Mcfarlane was right and at least we have him"(?

[@fugithegreat]

​@@v-zr9czngl, I was never a fan of the sexual parts of Gaiman's writing because they felt icky to me. Must have been red flags that I was willing to ignore.

[@fugithegreat]

Yeah, a couple of years ago I was thinking about all the creators that turn out to be a**holes and hoping that in this universe Neil wouldn't be one of those... I'm so disaopointed and disgusted.

[@garrettwhite5943]

Good Omens 3 breaks my heart. Sir Terry's final work will be tainted by this.

[@HuntingViolets]

An adaptation of someone’s work is not the same as their work. His final work was published long ago.

[@GinPixie]

eh maybe. his legacy is so much larger than just that book though. gnu sir terry

[@shangc2781]

Also the idea that we'd never see another adaptation of one of his works isn’t likel either.

[@itzelgc4637]

I was waiting for the Audible adaptation of The Sandman 😢

[@najhoant]

To be fair, seasons 2 and 3 weren't based on the books, they were original continuations mostly made by Gaiman

[@onbearfeet]

Somehow the news about The Graveyard Book brought up the rage all over again. I taught that book for years. I've analyzed it to death in front of students. It was such a great introduction to the wider world of folklore, mythology, and literature for kids too young for something like Sandman. I know for a fact that The Graveyard Book made avid readers out of more than one of my students. I finally got Ender's Game taken off the required reading list specifically on the grounds that I was replacing it with a Newbery medalist (because Orson Scott Card's nonsense wasn’t enough reason in the eyes of some conservative parents who agreed with said nonsense). And now every student who fell in love with books because I handed them Nobody Owens is somewhere out there, dealing with this. I hope the Sleer keeps him.

[@colleenmarin8907]

I agree. The Graveyard is the only Neil Gaiman audio book that I've listened to twice because it's just that compelling

[@johnvinals7423]

How much would it suck if Philip Pullman turned out to be a creep, or if either Joan Aiken or Susan Cooper had turned out to be massive…Trans Excluding Radical Determinists?

[@bennett4789]

my mom read the graveyard book to me when i was a kid and its some of my earliest and fondest memories. really sucks to have them tainted in this way

[@Ironorchids]

Our demons always keep us, I’m afraid.

[@EmlynBoyle]

Ditto on The Graveyard Book. It was my favourite Gaiman book for years, and now that specific news about its creation has put me off it forever.

[@ewarrior9776]

I am a Cariibean American born in the UK, you have no idea how much the book Annasi Boys to me. I have been waiting a waiting for this miniseries for years. Neal Gaiman was one of my favorite authors for decades. He was a delight back in my old Twitter days. He broke my heart.

[@exotherm42]

Not to trauma-dump, but I don't feel too loved irl. Though I'm working on it, it's very much a wip. I feel a sincerity in your outro each time that makes my hair stand on edge. Just wanted to let you know it, and you, are appreciated.

[@ashleyannie6756]

Honestly, the Good Omens news DEVASTATED me. I'm glad we're getting anything at all, but I'm so disappointed to know how much we're going to miss out on.

[@that_morrigan6184]

I also noticed the good omens comic book is being heavily talked about as being overseen and guided by the Pratchett estate these days

[@kashiichan]

That was the case before the Gaiman accusations though.

[@HaShomeret]

I didn't watch the video yet but your outfit, hair, lipstick and nails and glasses frames all go together really nicely

[@susskinsgamer]

Totally agree. This was my first time viewing one of your videos, and one of my immediate reactions was “I want those glasses.” If you see this, where did you get them? They’re fab.

[@WintersLady]

I was thinking the same thing. Love the blouse color. 🎉

[@Lordlaneus]

Goddammit Gaiman

[@thomasley4006]

Exactly. That sums up my feelings.

[@verenabecker2724]

Yes, that has been my exact reaction as well.

[@justinjordan8016]

It's tempting to think of comics as being the product of the writer, but they aren't. Sandman is what you get when Gaiman, a bunch of editors, and a whole lot more artists jam together on a thing for a long time. It's as much a collaboration as Good Omens, albeit in a different way. (I've been a professional comic writer for more than a decade, so not speaking entirely out of my butt)

[@4-a-e]

You're on the money but is there an argument to be made that there only Gaimem when he starts and the page is blank. From mynlumited understanding Sandman is work for hire but so much of Gaimen's essence is in book DC worked out a creator owned deal with Gaimen and his collaborators.

[@Cazu_Orddu_Medea]

You end these videos so beautifully, I need to add we love you too.

[@JamesThomasJeans]

I don't beat myself up for watching TV shows or movies that involve problematic people. If I did, I wouldn't be able to watch anything ever because EVERYTHING involves people who are less than savory. I look at a person's history and their work and I decide whether or not I'm going to watch it. I will not watch movies made by Victor Salva but I will watch movies that were produced by Harvey Weinstein, for example. My reasons for why I'll watch one and not the other are my own, and I don't really care how other people feel about it. I don't watch Harry Potter, but I don't care that other people do. I detest Rowling and I condemn her foolishness and hatred, but I don't judge people who grew up on Harry Potter and who continue to interact with that world. You don't need to make excuses for why you're going to watch Good Omens. You like the world, you like the characters, you dislike one of the creators. That's fine.

[@gRinchY-op5vr]

My general take on 'seperate the artist from the art' is I can only do that if the artist separates themselves from their artwork. As you mentioned Salva, I'll use him as an example - I can watch Jeepers Creepers 1 with little issues, but 2 and 3? They are filled with ALOT of references to the 'problem' with the man, which he would have put in there himself given he directs and writes the films...which not only reminds me of his crimes but aldosterone his arrogance over the whole thing. Dude knows he has friends in high places who will continue to give him work, learned nothing from the whole thing and feels no guilt (not to mention served barely any time for what he did) so can't watch those, not the film that was made during the time he did the thing (you know). Same applies to Gaiman here for certain works, quite a few involve acts of assault...similar to what he is accused of, so I can't enjoy those pieces of work because again can't seperate the artist from the art if the artist insists on inserting themselves into their art reminding you of the issue like that. EDIT - like you I also don't judge if other people don't feel that way, just don't let them tell me to seperate the artist from the art when again...the artist themself won't let me do that.

[@bradhorowitz2765]

agreed. its why i dont see a problem liking hrry potter and hating rowling. Harry potter the story may be a incoherent, apologist story for abuse and fascism, with rowling's own feelings against women and poor folks and slavery mixed in, but fans FOR SOME REASON NEVER PICKED THAT UP. They made the fandom so fun and engaging that it completely overtook the actual story

[@godmagnus]

The artist doesn't always make money from people consuming the art. Is Weinstein getting money from someone watching a movie from 30 years ago?

[@princessthyemis]

exactlyyyy! I grew up with Harry Potter and still love it, EVEN THOUGH it has flaws and i now detest the author. No story is perfect. Lovecraft is a classic and he was a mega rascit! But his books are still for sale. I don't know why i didn't see the house-elf plot as iffy when i first read it, probably cuz i didn't know anything about analysis, but there's plenty of ways she could've included the plot without the slavery detail. Like another comment said, and i'm using HP as my example instead of Sandman, "it was so formuative to our teens years that entirely divoricing our lives from it would be impossible." I think i'm allowed to like HP while also being aware the author is terrible. Like you said, "I don't beat myself up for watching TV shows or movies that involve problematic people. If I did, I wouldn't be able to watch anything ever because EVERYTHING involves people who are less than savory." Hp is a story about love overcoming evil, about friendship overcoming lonliness, and that's a universally important message no matter what time period you're in! I think people who throw negative blanket statements on it aren't looking at the whole picture--and hey, long story short, life is more interesting, and art is more interesting, when fellow fans of writing or fantasy or anything can agree to disagree, right!? :D

[@bradhorowitz2765]

@@princessthyemis i would love it if people talked about "wait why did we love harry potter when the story is actually terrible.?"

[@samcyphers2902]

When I was a dumb(er) 13 year old, I went onto Gaiman's Facebook and left a reply that "In the years to come, I will be your greatest rival in the world of fantasy fiction." Now that the bastard's fallling apart, I see a spot opening up for the "weird, creepy, but still accessible fantasy writer" niche. I'm making the vow now: I won't do *any* of this twisted, perverted, abusive shit my predecessor did. Like, I can't picture how you even get into the headspace to think treating people so badly is okay. Anyway, elect me to be Prom Queen. I promise a taco truck on every street corner.

[@glitterberserker1029]

Done. I'll read creepy fantasy and eat tacos.

[@polaris_draws]

Honestly, this is the best response to this and I'm right there with you. I will fight you for this spot, but I am glad to have an honorable rival. It should really not be that hard to be better about this really it's not that hard...

[@alyzu4755]

Awesome! Now we'll have at least 2 new, great authors who are unproblematic. 😊❤️❤️❤️

[@deliriumzer0]

@@alyzu4755 Add me to that list too! Maybe the three of us can all promote each other. Maybe the next great quirky weird darkly comedic fantasy collab will come out of it :D

[@reneebecerra7668]

You’ve got my vote!

[@Dragoon91786]

[How Neil Gaiman's crimes now fuck over Terry Pratchett rant.] The sad and extra fucked up thing with Good Omens is that now that Gaiman is "out of the [villain] closet" so to speak, 😒😑 I guess his extensive childhood with Scientology both helped and hurt him, it screws over Gaiman's opposite, Terry Pratchett, the g-d of gamer mods and storyteller king. I was recently watching a video on here about how Terry Pratchett became enamored with a mod character for Oblivion and ended up helping a young woman from Sweden continually develop this companion character. So where Gaiman did some seriously f-ed up manipulative shit costing his marriage, family, and legacy, while being a notorious prick about his IP, whereas Pratchett willingly gave away his own writing to help develop a freely available mod for Oblivion, all while by most accounts being a genuinely awesome human being, amd tragically dying too soon. Can we get a swap? I'd like to trade the dealer one Neil Gaiman for one Terry Pratchett. I told the rest of my hand.

[@ruthbennett7563]

GNU Sir Terry ❤

[@lista2308]

I had a similar conversation with fellow library students; we concluded that art is easier to separate from the artist if they are dead but if they are alive it comes down to how much you can stomach. Some will never touch anything related to problematic authors again, others will never buy their books but are fine with games and movies based on the books. We were originally discussing whether libraries should throw books by "bad" authors out permanently or not, and it went from professional ethics to our personal feelings.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

Having previously dated a librarian and being an artist of a sorts myself, I'm reluctant to advise that libraries discard the works outright (with the exception of times when the work is actively damaging or dangerous in and of itself, completely separate from issues with the artist). However I always do appreciate when they opt to just keep a single copy on the appropriate shelf and not use such things in displays or otherwise make them prominent.

[@lista2308]

@@CouncilofGeeks Our ethical guidelines state just that: as long as the work doesn't cause harm it stays on the shelves, if/when the copies get too worn to keep **then** the discussion about repurchasing the work happens or if the money should be spent on something else

[@BelleShadow]

God, I'm begging for Sandman not to be cancelled. I love that show. I love the actors and the characters and the stories

[@anneschurman5328]

Just because I feel like we all need to hear it right now- You are beautiful. You are valid. You are loved. Exactly as you are! Thank you for posting a video in the midst of the last few weeks nightmare. Know that you have people rooting for you and doing everything we can to make the world a kinder, safer place.

[@Therobot-zy8uc]

Thank you, i think we all need to hear kind words right now especially those in the LGBTQIA+ community.

[@EmeraldLavigne]

Honestly, just saying this doesn't do anything when they start coming for us. Are you going to fight to save our lives? Including our healthcare? The time for words is past. How are you doing to protect us?

[@MerelyGifted]

@@EmeraldLavigne How does writing a mean comment on yt solve anything? How does it increase confidence in ourselves? How does it keep anyone safe?

[@Witchy_Reads]

This is just plain devastating. I always looked up to Gaiman as a great writer and all-around person. I hate that he proved me wrong in the second part. I would have loved to have seen an adaptation of The Graveyard Book as it is arguably my favorite Gaiman novel. I hate that this is who he is and that so much of what I loved in books is now tainted by his actions. I feel for his victims and I hope they receive the retribution that will begin their healing.

[@williammorahan4907]

Revenge is not a path of healing.

[@Witchy_Reads]

@@williammorahan4907 I agree and am in no way advocating for someone to take revenge. What I am advocating and hoping for is that Gaiman is held accountable for his actions. I do not want him to go into hiding, reappear a couple months or years later, and act like nothing happened. This occurs a lot and is why "cancel culture" doesn't exist, at least not for people with a certain level of fame and celebrity.

[@williammorahan4907]

@@Witchy_Reads I admit I want him to apologize and redeem himself, but I sadly know that’s an unlikely scenario. At the very least his family and his accusers can heal and move on to something better, and the stories and characters he’s created can continue to be loved and cherished by future generations of readers.

[@antonellamR2D2]

I loved American Gods S1 way more than the book! My hopes for GO3 are high, because the Pratchett Estate and S1 showrunner made it possible

[@gRinchY-op5vr]

I read it's become an hour and a half or something like that final episode to end the series, so not a 3rd season just an end of series special

[@HuntingViolets]

That’s talked about in the video.

[@GraupeLie]

Sendarya has a few very good in-depth videos on the state of Good Omens s3. As far as we know, it was actually cancelled behind the screens, and Rob Wilkins and Rhianna Pratchett, i.e. the closest we have to Sir Terry, basically kept negotiating with Amazon to give the story a proper ending and make s3 happen at all. As for the movie length, I've also come across the theory that NG may not even have finished the scripts, since the last update we got from him was that the first three episodes plus the ending were done - and then the allegations came along. So who knows if he even continued working on any scripts or anything. That may very well also be a reason why we're ending up with a film rather than a series. As for my relation to Good Omens, I will not walk away. I guess I'll definitely watch Sandman, because I liked the first season, even though I'm deeply disappointed in NG. But I still love stuff like Stardust. And Good Omens? Well, yes, it feels very Pratchettian, the book as well as season 1. And it's had SUCH a major impact on my life. I love these characters, and it's not just that. This book, the series and the fandom have changed my life so much, it helped me figure out who I am, it gave me the courage to start writing and cosplaying, and I won't walk away from that. I refuse to let one man's actions destroy that and take it from me. So, while I'm still sad that we're only getting a film instead of a full season, getting nothing after that ending of s2 would have been infinitely worse. And I try to put all my trust and faith into Rob Wilkins at this point, to give them the ending they deserve, the ending Terry Pratchett would have envisioned. I hope this film will do it justice and I take comfort in the theory that the scripts were perhaps never really all finished.

[@theresisty7122]

I was listening to an audio book about Jane Austen last night, and the author was talking about "Mansfield Park." He said the clues that Mary Crawford is a selfish manipulator were always there, he just didn't see it until the end of the novel. This instantly made me think of "Neverwhere," since "Mansfield Park" is the book Door loves reading. I realized the angel Islington is like Mary Crawford. The clues were always there, but I didn't realize he was evil until embarrassingly late in the novel. Then it hit me: Neil Gaiman himself is Islington. "Neverwhere" has been/was my favorite book for decades, and now I realize that the author's stand-in character isn't Richard or Door or the Marquis, it's the villain. I'm not sure what my point is in all of this, except that I LOVED Neil Gaiman's books and comics SO much. I connected with his work more than any other author's, and now I just feel disgusted, ashamed, and confused. The clues were there all along; I just didn't see them.

[@ContextWrench]

There isn’t shame in not knowing what you could never have realized on the outside. The connections you felt were real and remain yours not his

[@kyrauniversal]

So for the Doctor Who episode The Doctor's Wife, he was more like House.

[@bradhorowitz2765]

Don’t feel ashamed. Not every writer who writes a character is putting themselves in them. The author may suck but the story lives on. A good story will always stick around. It’s why I can read a Frank miller comic up to sin city and relatively enjoy them. And it’s worth noting that all of this was fairly private (as far as we know). There is no way anyone outside Neil’s inner circle would have known. Heck would even his friends have know ? This so something Neil’s wife I suspect knows more due to the fact that the wife was reportedly aware that one of accusers was hired To work on their estate and live off on it. And she reportedly wanted to fire said person but the accuser, thanks to Neil’s “protection”, was allowed to stay. Still we don’t know all details but I tend to side with the accusers.

[@EmeralBookwise]

@@bradhorowitz2765: I'd contend the opposite. I don't think it's even possible to be a good writer and to create well rounded relatable characters without the writer putting at least a bit of themselves into each and every character. That doesn't mean ever author who writes great villains is secretly a bad person. Having dark thoughts is not the same as acting on them. People, real people, aren't just black and white. There are bits of good and evil in all of us.

[@felipelcavalcante]

while I think there is something in reevaluating someone's works after discovering that they are not a good person, I personally think that's not the best take. yes, he wrote the antagonist, doesn't mean he sees himself as such. there's no hidden clues or foreshadowing in real life. sometimes, a person can deeply harm another person.

[@classicaljg]

Not to downplay the seriousness of any of this, but just had to drop a comment saying I love the colour coordination of the top, make-up, hair, and glasses, which really suits you and I wish I had those glasses :) I realise everything is very serious and depressing right now, but it’s such a good ensemble I just had to mention it!

[@classicaljg]

Also I have been thinking about you and a lot of creators I follow since the election. Hope you’re ok.

[@verenabecker2724]

Honestly yes, it's such a good look that even me, someone who is utterly oblivious to anything fashion or style, went to the comments with the intent of complimenting it.

[@nancyjay790]

I still love Buffy the Vampire Slayer, even though it's very much Joss Whedon's baby. I cannot watch anything with Kevin Spacey in it these days. Some things for me attach much more to the troublesome person who tanked their reputation than others. I will uphold and appreciate anyone who finds they can't stomach anything with Neil Gaiman as a writer, of the original work and/or a project. Nobody needs that. I do appreciate Vera continuing to bring what information she has and her own nuanced opinion on these difficult subjects. These days, more than ever, we should extend some grace to those who, say, still love Crowley and Aziraphael. While it's worthwhile to stand up for the rights and safety of actual people, it's not always worthwhile to attack TV stuff. At least partly because there is no ethical consumption in a capitalist society (as Vera and others have said before). Again, many thanks to Vera.

[@thomasley4006]

Actors are almost impossible to compartmentalize away. When I watch Buffy I see the actors and their work. And so it’s no problem to separate that from Whedon. But Spacey is Spacey, you see him, you hear him. And it‘s all the worse for the fact that he really is irl like the SOBs he plays so well. So it will also be easy to still watch Good Omens, especially due to the fact that the two main actors are actually decent persons (afawk..).

[@claudiadarling9441]

TV shows also feel different since they're so collaborative. Not the films aren't, but they can be much more a singular work or vision. There's just too much work to be done on a TV show for it not to be a big group effort.

[@professorhazard]

@@nancyjay790 Kevin Spacey ruined MOON for me

[@amberlyveil8856]

The allegations put a certain canceled Sandman issue in a new light. Basically, the guy that abused and assaulted Calliope for ideas... was going to get a personal story about his journey to healing and self-forgiveness... He canned that story on his own... and instead we got Emperor Norton..... But damn... that cancelled story really seems telling...

[@Hawkatana]

What's more is that said writer also claimed to be a feminist in spite of abusing an innocent woman for his own personal gain.

[@mariadavarinou8791]

I loved it so much when in the show Oneiros just made the mfacker a blank slate, no ideas or thoughts whatsoever, cause holly heck, he doesn't deserve to live a normal life after what he did to Calliope! 🙏 My girl deserves HER OWN spin-off about HER healing, HER journey and the way SHE will choose how her life will continue after what happened to her.

[@Hawkatana]

@@mariadavarinou8791 Ironically the opposite in the comic, where he floods his mind with ideas to the point of driving him insane trying to write them all out, even writing with the blood from his fingers after clawing the ground trying to write them out. I think that would be better for Neil.

[@mariadavarinou8791]

@Hawkatana Oh yeah, that happened in the show too, but at the end of the episode Calliope wants to "forgive the man" and says that without forgiveness healing can never start, so she asked Oneiros to "release the mortal", so he does, but he also takes ALL IDEAS away from the dude cause Oneiros is just that mad about what was done to Calliope! And honestly slay! 💅 I love that he did that, really shows that he still cares for Calliope, even if their marriage ended. I know he's not like that in the comic, but I really do prefer him like in the show where he is carrying for her! 🤗 Yes, if (which he 99% did) Gaiman did all what he is accused, yeah, he definitely deserves the same fate as the dude in Calliope's story! 😈

[@amberlyveil8856]

@@mariadavarinou8791 The one I'm referring to was a followup story. And from what I remember of the outline... Calliope wasn't going to be in it... That writer was going to find a way to forgive himself

[@Leena79]

I'm kind of really sick of things I love being tarnished by their creators doing bad things. Buffy is my comfort show, and as much as I hate Josh Whedon, I tried going without rewatching Buffy for a while, but sh*t happened in my life, and I needed the comfort. I also think, there are so many amazing cast members and people who worked to create an amazing show, they deserve to be remembered. I think I feel the same way about Good Omens. For me, the show is at least as much about the true friendship of Michael Sheen and David Tennant as it is about the fictional characters. Their chemistry is what makes the show so good. I need to erase the memory of Neil Gaiman to watch the show, but I will, because the show is more than him and his legacy. I haven't watched Sandman yet, but I might now just skip it. I will most likely still watch Star dust, because it is on my list of the best fantasy films I've ever watched. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad, but I've been quite able to not watch anything of Kevin Spacey's or JK Rowling's since things went off the rails. I considered Spacey a brilliant actor. I though he was excellent as the creepy character of the film. After it turned he was an actual creep, I wasn't impressed.

[@eamonndeane587]

Unfortunately, JK Rowling is still thriving thanks to her Conservative fans and supporters.

[@Starshadow]

What we knew about Good Omens: Neil, evidently, had turned in half the scripts and must at least have told the two principal actors what the ending was to be since both had pronounced it “perfect” though otherwise not telling anything ( as is usual). In hindsight from behind the scenes people, contracts were discharged and people told to go home on preproduction. Then the miracle of Terry Pratchett’s daughter and secretary happened. It’s not going to be low budget. There’s a few reasons why it’s only ninety minutes. First, it doesn’t need a showrunner. (NG was the 1st and 2nd season showrunner. Second, the BBC has a limit of 90 minutes in their tv movie adaptations. It may not be an absolute limit but it does appear to be what they do. Here’s the thing, though, while 90 minutes is obviously less than a full season, much can be done in 90 minutes (before ads, remember). Princess Bride ran for 98 minutes and is still a classic. They’re using the original sets and preproduction people aside from writing, directing, etc. it’s not going to be slapdash. They are working from the original story. Filming starts mid-January. It’s going to be much better than people expect. I’m optimistic.

[@NoamFatmen]

from what neil said when he was asked about it before good omens even started was that terry asked him to to do it when terry was very sick, and the show was his last wish.

[@bethanderson2111]

And that's Season 1. I don't think there's any evidence that Sir Terry wanted seasons 2 or 3

[@kashiichan]

​@@bethanderson2111They've both talked in the past about a potential sequel for the Good Omens book. That's where the idea of a "cottage on the South Downs" came from.

[@bethanderson2111]

@@kashiichan yeah they talked about it, but given that Terry wanted all his incomplete work destroyed I cannot imagine that he wanted GO the series to continue beyond the book. I know he wanted the TV series made and I know they discussed a sequel, but I also know that he and NG were both relieved when they realised the other didn't want to actually write the sequel

[@Stormchantress]

@@bethanderson2111 It's not that he didn't want to write the sequel - they were simply both too busy and then STP wasn't able to write anymore. Having his own unfinished works destroyed was one thing, but GO is co-authored and I think STP trusted NG with it, seeing as he said "you're the only one who understands the old girl as much as I do". I'm absolutely devastated that we're being Owl House'd. After the insanely well-made heartbreak in season 2 I was really looking forward to watching Aziraphale and Crowley slowly work things out. GO is at its core, a comfort show and it was meant to provide comfort for the audience. 90 minutes is hardly enough to tell a coherent story of stopping the Second Coming. All people who say all they want is a "happy ending" clearly missed the whole potential this narrative had.

[@bethanderson2111]

@Stormchantress that's not how I read them looking at each other and saying "I thought you wanted to do it" and being relieved. I heartily wish that season 2 had never been made. One of my friends persuaded me to watch it when I didn't plan to and I regret watching very much. Even though I love it.

[@rsdotscot]

Gaiman has already been paid. He gets no royalties. There's no shame in enjoying the work of the other artists involved.

[@TheEliera]

I loved his writings but cannot read it anymore. It really hit me hard seeing his books in my library just make me feel miserable

[@bradhorowitz2765]

Don’t feel like that. Use death of the writer where YOU decide if the story and author is worth it. Look, this is a problem for celebrities. Their works don’t always represent themselves. A bad person can legitimately make great works. I mean sean Connery played James Bond, a spy who saves the world, and then heroes to go on tv to say “yeah I can slap my wife if she gets outta line.” Or think of Roger Hornsby. By all accounts he was a clubhouse cancer for his. Baseball teams, but he was one of the greatest hitters of his time.

[@colleenmarin8907]

I have DVDs of all the Seasons of the I, Spy TV show - that I bought secondhand ages ago - that I haven't been able to rewatch because of Bill Cosby's personal life atrocious acts

[@bradhorowitz2765]

@@colleenmarin8907 understandable. to be fair i dont think bill Cosby's mainstream stuff is anything to write home about. i dont think anyone looks at i spy and says "wow that was an instant classic." The Cosby show is also safe. Its biggest achievement was having a well to do middle class/wealthy black nuclear family as the main leads, but as critics pointed out-it ignored issues that absolutely could have made it more interesting. granted most sitcoms did that, but others pointed out that bill cosby went out of his way to ignore those contentious issues which conflicts with his stand up work in his early ears. Then bill cosby refused to cast a pregnant woman in the spinoff show. his poundcake speech kinda indicated what he believed to an extent.

[@quinnsmusings]

I love your speculations because you always give reasoning that showcases your experience in the industry and adds dimension to your videos that I come to expect and enjoy.

[@andrayellowpenguin]

I'm so sad about Good Omens. It didn't deserve the same treatment. 😢

[@Blabla_bloblo]

Vera, thank you so much. Not excluding people who found a peace of mind in someone’s (who turned out to be a piece if crap) work, being honest and understanding, it is so precious, especially now.

[@frnknstndrgqn]

1. I love your glasses they are so pretty! and 2. David tennant and michael sheen, like the fans, want to see a proper ending for the characters, I am invested and I also want to see what happens to them. Just a shame that the author not only ruined it for the fans but also the people who worked so hard to bring these characters to life.

[@ChristopherSadlowski]

Not that you've ever not looked good, but your makeup, glasses, and blouse are really coming together in such a visually pleasing way. These colors really compliment you.

[@Bridget-z1q]

I’m gutted. He was my favorite author. I bought several signed first editions last year and I’m having buyer’s remorse. Side note: this is my first video and the amount of information is incredible. Realize the past few weeks have been hard. You are very much appreciated!

[@TimeLockLady]

Vera, I discovered your channel a few weeks ago and I'm completely in love with everything. I think, and this video is proof of that, what i lovr the most about your take on things is how nuanced you're. It feels refreshing to see someone on the Internet allowing healthy debate, with nuance, grey areas, moral discussion... I love the way you make your videos and scripts, so thank you so much. As for the topic in hand, I never really was fully into NG as an author. I loved Good Omens mostly because of Tennant and Sheen, because their work is excellent there, but I haven't been the number one fan on the entire script/story. So I think I'll be able to watch the film distancing myself from NG.

[@ms-literary6320]

It’s honestly so, so frustrating that one person’s terrible decisions ripple outwards to hurt cast, crew, and fans of all these works. I get why studios would drop them from a business point of view, but it’s so disappointing.

[@StephenSinclair-d6n]

We should enjoy the stories. They are important. Not the writer. As a writer myself I understand this on a profoundly 'gut level'. If the stories are good...they are even more valuable. As always I love this channel. Especially at this time of year....

[@haruekferreira8942]

Good Omens makes me sad. I really wanted so much more from it. While it also makes me angry as hell, because I'm done supporting his works (as in, paying for it).

[@RobertoBunting]

I love Sandman so much. I honestly feel so weird about it. I will be watching. I will admit that I want them to do the whole thing, but it hurts. I cannot say how much that series means to me, and how much it sucks that the author sucks.

[@Elwaves2925]

That's the one that gets me the most. I was really hoping it would be successful enough to get a complete run, even though it was a long shot. That will be unlikely to happen now, although I'll still watch season 2 but it sucks. Good Omens is getting an ending, so that's something and the other projects weren't really at a place where I was excited yet. There's also the fate of the Audible dramas.

[@genericinsight]

If you makes you feel any better, DC owns the rights to Sandman. Neil sold the rights a long time ago.

[@Elwaves2925]

@@genericinsight Yes, which is the one glimmer of hope that Netflix might carry on. It may depend on how many drop out of watching season 2 because of all this. We'll have to see.

[@bensmith5262]

​@@Elwaves2925 I hope they finish the audible adaptation of Sandman. It's one of the best selling things they ever put out, and it really shows. Dammit Neil! Whhhhyyyyyyy?!

[@Elwaves2925]

@@bensmith5262 I agree, it's been done brilliantly and I want them to continue as well, but without Gaiman's involvement. Your last sentence is what I keep saying every time this topic comes up.

[@pandora4037]

What pisses me off the most is that not only is Neil Gaimen being punished (which he should be) but everybody involved with his works is now being punished. And the fans are being punished. All these great shows as works of art CAN be divorced from the creator. I will be very sad if Sandman and Good Omens doesn't continue.

[@AliceGrimm97]

Honestly, I'm still gonna watch and adore the Coraline movie. To me, even though it's based on one of Gaiman's books, it always felt more like Henry Selick's and Laika's creation. Gaiman had only wrote the source material and pitched the idea to Henry Selick, and tbh I'm not even sure that counts as having any real involvement with the film's production. If it does, it's barely anything at all. Coraline will still be my favorite movie for that reason and I'll always be coming back to it. I'm sorry if some of you disagree with my decision, but it's really important to me. It helped me work through and recover from some of my past trauma with abuse. It's my comfort movie and I refuse to let one creeper take that away from me.

[@jamiegdubois]

I always try my best to separate the art from the artists.

[@christabelle__]

@@jamiegdubois You cannot separate the artist from the art while they live - "Death of the Artist" is a concept that's heavily debated, but it's pretty well accepted by most that it's kinda...well, sh*tty to support a problematic LIVING person. While they live, they benefit from your consumption of their media. They benefit from being in the news - good OR bad. They benefit even from pirated shows, or games - many media services even track watched numbers not just on their site...but they track the pirated numbers too, while deciding if to continue a show. You cannot separate a living artist from the art they made.

[@christabelle__]

You cannot separate the artist from the art while they live - "Death of the Artist" is a concept that's heavily debated, but it's pretty well accepted by most that it's kinda...well, sh*tty to support a problematic LIVING person. While they live, they benefit from your consumption of their media. They benefit from being in the news - good OR bad. They benefit even from pirated shows, or games - many media services even track watched numbers not just on their site...but they track the pirated numbers too, while deciding if to continue a show. Supporting the artist is support the artist. It's as simple as that. You support the pig who raped women - you're approving of it, or you wouldn't give your money and time to him. Because watching his show earns him money. The watch numbers go up. His dollars stack up from the service playing his show. It's as simple as 2+2, my friend. 2 + 2 isn't 5, no matter how much you insist it is. It's 4. And supporting a rapist's works of art is still supporting a rapist. Would you buy one of John Wayne Gacy's paintings of himself as a clown? I doubt it. He r*ped and murd*red an absurd amount of young boys and men. So why would you want to see him earn money off of you while serving time? Neil Gaiman has r*ped numberous women over the years, and more are coming out of the woodwork... so why is it any more moral to pay THIS r*pist for his art? Because you liked it before you knew he was a r*pist? You have to be honest with yourself. And know that others will judge you for continuing to partake in things made by a known r*pist. Enjoy being a real piece of sh*t I guess - because as a woman who has been sexually assaulted? I'd be ill, if my abusers were publishing books that people said they'd still buy; if my abuser was producing or writing for a show, I'd have to cancel the streaming service it was coming onto, and try not to vomit every time someone said they loved Sandman, or Good Omens... because all I would see is a man looming over me, ignoring how I push him away and have told him I don't want what he wants more than once. All I would taste is fear, as people cheered for the man who forced himself on me, "but I love his characters so much! His works were transformative for me!" Okay, sure...and the r*pe was transformative for me, when it gave me CPTSD and night terrors and depression... But you do you, bud. Try not to think about your sister, wife, daughter, cousin, best friend...whoever, being r*ped by the guy who produced that movie/show you like. Because it's all about you, and what you like and want.

[@kaitlyn__L]

...you know, I only saw the film once, and I was really uneasy. But a few years after it came out I started to realise I myself had come from an abusive home. Every time I've considered it, I wasn't sure if I could put up with the Other Mother's manipulation. Even though it's been 10 years since I left that place. So... Maybe I should watch it again.

[@AmarisFrede]

Thank you for the affirmation at the end. I know it's your outro, but it still brings tears to my eyes every so often, like today. Really needed to hear that. Thank you! 🫂

[@soniashapiro4827]

I feel so different about Gaiman and Rowland. Even if he behaved very badly in his private life he's not been an apologist for hateful behaviour.

[@a_lethe_ion]

small graces

[@_sarah.honey-]

I don’t think I’ll ever be able to express the grief and rage I have that so many of my favorite stories and show have been marred by this man’s actions.

[@tammylt5004]

Im conflicted on this whole situation, and frankly the way we are moving as a society on this. It seems when a person is accused of something, we now start harming the careers of many innocent folks. I don't feel that's always the moral highground we think it is. I don't have the answers. But I do think we need more of what Vera did here -being honest about the complexity.

[@Blue_Grass_Girl]

Same here. Moreover, if we look at the US election result, apparently we only condem some people - the others we put into office.

[@williammorahan4907]

This is why I think these accusations should be handled quietly and not as a big media spectacle.

[@annaa3772]

I don't think that it's a mere accusation in Gaiman's case considering that he basically admitted to extremely problematic sexual behaviour (but said it was consensual). I do think that we should take more care not to hang the co-creators out to dry because of one person, especially when it comes to highly collaborative media like tv-shows.

[@RandomOldPerson]

@@annaa3772 I think you touched on the live wire with “problematic but consensual.” If the interaction is between consenting adults it shouldn’t be problematic to liberals. Consent has to be the objective line. Otherwise personal bigotry and sexual taste becomes the subjective lines and will be governed by the most vocal and powerful regardless of the consequences to the people involved or the concept of sexual autonomy in general. And makes us no different from puritanical Christian Nationalists when it comes to condemning people for their sexual activities. And that doesn’t help anyone but bigots. When the left starts telling adults they can’t date someone more than X years older than themselves or outside their economic or class level or their lives will be publicly burned to ash, then moderates stop seeing conservatives as inherently evil when they say adults shouldn’t be in same sex or mixed race relationships because all of those are arbitrary groupings based on personal tastes and preferences. I’m 50, and deeply disturbed by the left using the exact same phrasing and arguments attacking consenting adult relationships today that the conservatives used in the 80s and 90s against LGBT+ and interracial couples, and sexually active women in general. It’s completely out of hand at this point.

[@annaa3772]

@@RandomOldPerson The issue was that sexual encounter sounded so weird and so problematic that people believed the woman's account over his. Gaiman essentially said that he made out with his children's nanny while she was in the bath within hours of meeting her, which is so contrary to professional boundaries that people believe that he is likely to have violated her consent boundary too. People basically feel his defenses to the allegations sound extremely suspicious and he's also known to sleep with fans and students. This kind of thing comes across as manipulative to people and manipulative behaviour turns into coercion quite easily.

[@mothturtle7897]

Slight correction - GO was not in production when it paused, despite what the Deadline article said. It was always due to start filming January 2025. And "paused" is putting it mildly. Rumours are it was effectively cancelled in September and the crew released from their contracts. This movie was the Pratchett estate bringing it back from the brink of death.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

*citation needed.

[@mothturtle7897]

@CouncilofGeeks for which bit? The cancellation bit is from Twitter where a comment by a friend of the crew re: the contracts and cancellation was liked by Rob Wilkins and Rhianna Pratchett. As for it not being in production, I guess I'd have to cite Neil Gaiman himself, who said back before the allegations that production wasn't due to start until January 2025. It was in pre-production but they definitely weren't filming yet.

[@LovelyRuthie]

Oh...Vera! The feels at the end there. Very emoshe

[@bogunicorn]

Gaiman was such a part of the 'personality' of the Good Omens marketing that I'm almost surprised it wasn't shitcanned entirely. What a shame. He was one of my favorite authors, such that I gave my copy of my favorite of his books to a friend when he was going through something horrible last year. I won't spend money on any new Gaiman things and have of course blocked him on social media. I never got around to watching Sandman or s2 of Good Omens or much of American Gods past season 1, and probably won't now. But I don't see a compelling reason to throw away or delete anything I already own. I have personal relationships with those things that don't have much to do with Gaiman as a person, especially the audiobooks/audio dramas that have actors involved. No thought crimes and all that, especially in private. I hope that Gaiman's career becomes completely inert and he disappears from public life. I hope that his victims find closure or peace (and whatever legal compensation they're entitled to). What a disappointment.

[@ajay_omega8967]

I think, especially when it comes to TV, its okay to separate the art from the artist. Its not like he's an actor in it and you're seeing him constantly. So many more people and so much more work has gone into these seasons beyond just one person's contribution. I'm going to watch Sandman and Good Omens because I really enjoy them and I won't be ashamed to. I hope they do well. I hope people talk about them. I hope Sandman gets a 3rd season (probably without Gaimon) because I think it deserves it. It's so rare these days to get good movies and programmes - most of what we get these days is just superficial drivel that usually makes little sense once you think about it for more than a minute (looking at you, Rings of Power). So when we get something good and worthwhile investing in, I hate the idea of cutting it at the knees because if the misdeeds of one person. The whole is so much more than just the contributions of one man.

[@PrincessNinja007]

I'll say when it came to stuff like JKR or Terrance Zdunich or Dan Schneider, it can be really hard to separate anyway, because you can't unsee their fingerprints all over it. You can't watch a pedicure episode without thinking "wow the guy who looked at foot porn at work sure did put a lot of kids' feet on TV"

[@ajay_omega8967]

@PrincessNinja007 I don't personally agree. I appreciate that everyone is different, but I consume media for its content, not for the people behind it. I think it's possible to think the acts of one person are deplorable whilst still appreciating the thing they created. Granted, you might come to view that thing through a new light, seeing new meaning within new context, but if the product remains the same then I'd still get the same enjoyment from it. For example, despite everything with Whedon, I still love Buffy and rewatch it every several years.

[@justineetzkorn9594]

Graveyard Book was in production hell for ten years, and I think on it's fourth pre-production team. Not a huge surprise they thought it was easy to cut. Harry Selick was also shopping around an animated adaptation of The Ocean at the End of the Lane, which he sounded optimistic about in June, and said in August had hit a wall. Both could just be Hollywood, but the timing is still there.

[@kimyoonmisurnamefirst7061]

I heard a rumor that the Pratchett estate pushed hard for the changes to Good Omens because they wanted distance from Neil Gaiman and to separate the legacies. So did things like hire a show runner in their camp, etc and push for it to not be a series, but shorter so Gaiman would get less profit, which makes sense. Protecting Pratchett's legacy sounds like something the estate would do and kinda is in keeping with the man himself.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

*citation needed.

[@talonhammer]

I appreciate the new closed captioning, Vera 💗

[@LoucheWoman]

My general rule with creators who have shown their whole ass is that I will only enjoy their product if they no longer profit from it. Because you can think a work is good and let it make you happy even if it happens to have been made by someone whose hand you wouldn't shake in public - but not they benefit from your enjoyment. Also, my heart breaks for the excellent actors and artists involved in these adaptions who are losing out from something they had no agency in.

[@Daelyah]

The actions of some creep who abused his celebrity status are not going to take away what the Ineffable Husbands mean to me. Tennant's Crowley helped me overcome a portion of my past trauma, when beforehand I couldn't watch about anything else Tennant was in for many years; it's not his fault that some of his facial characteristics reminded me of a creep from my own past, but the TV show version of Crowley helped me bypass that pain so that I could properly appreciate Tennant's acting finally. Plus, Sheen's Aziraphale surprised me with how dear he became to me. Though I know about s2's ending through spoilers, and haven't been able to watch any episodes after s1, I continue to cherish those two main faces from GO. Hell, there were times when I would have stressful nightmares that wound up ending on happier notes, when those two ephemeral dorks would show up to alleviate those horrible dreams. They had genuinely become comfort characters for me, and I'm not letting even some manipulative lech of a writer take that away!

[@maduinargentus5878]

Your comparison with Owl House is spot on, but for me this will forever be The Sense8 Treatment

[@jasonbrault5273]

Found this channel from a comment on The Leftist Cooks channel, where they do an hour long video essay on this. They point out that Gaimen blended all these influences together and would minimize "him" as a narrator of a story. This was mentioned about halfway in when they we discussing the "death of the author" approach to art (i recommend everyone watch the full video). I mention this because, as they point out, this is both like a break up but also a reason to revisit the work itself (like the shape prose and the themes removed from the author). I think that Good Omens has very clear characters and ships so fandom can both watch the third installment, as well as build stories where Azerial and Crowley cast judgement on Gaimen and explore the f*ckety of the world that a creep man who gains wealth and power can self delude themselves about what they have done to others. I think Sandman series can be viewed as the amagum it is, of old dark eldridge gothic world that everyone has sensed and experienced in dream. The voice of Gaimen in those stories tends less to be the plot, but the long winded trope of being too verbose and descriptive in order to sound cleaver or Shakespearian. All to say, I think these works can be discussed on the merits of the work, as the value in Sandman is cultural tropes on existence, and Good Omens you could argue is owned by Sir Terry Pratch and the fandom now. It's because if this, where I think it is easier to remove the author than it was with Harry Potter, where it was obviously an attempt of an almost fantasical Narnia type world mixed in with the cruelty of boarding schools and adult figures. The value of Harry Potter is the fantastical and the resiliency of abandoned children (i think that way it started to turn crueller as the children got older, but we had already been hooked to the series). All to say, the themes, prose and plot points of Sandman are universal in literature that we can remove the Gaiman brand. Good Omen's I've always felt was Terry's characters in a Gaimen world. As Gaimen does not own the real world, we should be able to remove him from it too. (And, I am ashamed to say it, I just want to watch David Tenant chew up the scenery).

[@travishiltz4750]

I had kind of drifted away from Gaiman, even before he imploded, but am still sad to hear about 'graveyard book'. That was one of my favorites.

[@cliftonchurch6039]

My dad and sis would talk about books, and among them, Pratchett. I say don't let one doofus' bad decisions stop you from enjoying the last creative spark from Pratchett. Just remind yourself every time you watch that the other guy whose name is on the box is a complete doofus.

[@emmaginationlove]

A doofus is someone who steps on Lego they left out,not a powerful person credibly accused of victimisation.

[@IndubitablyMrsS]

I didn’t love the show, but “Rings of Power” had a great line about having humility when judging the artist rather than the art. Rationally, I love that idea, but it is HARD to fully embrace.

[@kurathchibicrystalkitty5146]

At long last, I've made a decision about my books of his. I'm getting rid of my copies of Neverwhere, Norse Mythology, Anansi Boys, and Trigger Warning, and my Sandman collection. But I'm keeping my copies of M is For Magic, Coraline, The Graveyard Book, and The Ocean at the End of the Lane on my shelf, untouched, unread, as mementos. To remind me that authors and creators are people, with all the beauty and misery and terrible things that come with it. I'm not going to watch Good Omens's last episode right away, maybe not for months. But if fans like it, and are happy with it, then I might watch it eventually, just to have a bit of closure. As for The Graveyard Book, I'm just relieved that Disney didn't get a chance to get their hands on it. [The anecdote of when they asked Terry Pratchett about adapting Mort and asked if they could "lose the Death angle" is burned into my mind.] As a side note, Vera, if you read fan-fics, what's your favourites of Good Omens? I have a bunch saved that I like way more than the original book, and a couple that I like more than Season 1.

[@de_peer]

If you’re willing to share, I’d love to hear about those fanfics!

[@kurathchibicrystalkitty5146]

@@de_peer Of course! This'll be in multiple replies, since I have a lot to offer. My three absolute favourites are Pray For Us Icarus by Atalan, Factory Settings by an anonymous author, and the massive Akashic Records series by PeniG.

[@kurathchibicrystalkitty5146]

Then for some pure fun: St. George and the Demon and New Translation of Matthew 4: 1-11, both by Cheese-and-Onion-Crisps, along with The Demons Have The Phone Box Part 1 and 2 by the-plat-in-the-hat, and In Holy Matrimony by myracuulous.

[@kurathchibicrystalkitty5146]

Lastly, Prince of Omens, a Good Omens + Prince of Egypt crossover comic. They're all on Archive of Our Own, except that Prince of Omens is incomplete on AO3, and can be found in full on the author's tumblr account. [I get so much enby envy from Crowley rocking the ancient Egyptian look with the super luscious hair, oof.]

[@nathandc]

A thoughtful and well put together analysis, thank you.

[@brucehaven1]

Just to comment on what can happen when an intended series gets a one off conclusion it doesn't have to be a disaster. One of my all time favourite shows Sense 8 was cancelled. Fan pressure and demand led to a 2 hour conclusion episode which finished the series off really well. You could see where it would have been a series and been more fleshed out but what we got was very good.

[@Arialynna]

Thank you so much for your coverage on this situation. Neil Gaiman was one of favorite authors since I was 15, and his work was with me during the darkest times in my life. I couldn’t handle watching the endless drama and speculation on this one, but I had to know. I’m so glad that I found your videos first, because the clarity, steadiness, and compassion here helped me stay grounded and process this in a much smoother way than I would have otherwise. I thought that I didn’t have attachments like that to celebrities, but this one really stung. Thank you for helping me hold onto some faith in humanity when my hero worship reared its ugly head. Grieving our favorite stories sucks, but there’s so many more for us to find, and create for ourselves. I’m going to go do that.

[@LyraLyraPantsOnFyra]

One of the things that annoys me immensely is that even before Neil was confirmed to be an absolute piece of shit, his projects were getting cancelled and yet... Joanne Rowling still gets her fucking HBO adaptation.

[@Marrithegreat1]

I will for sure be watching Good Omens. Terry Pratchett is my all time favorite author. This whole series feels like a love letter to Terry. Regardless of Gaiman and what he may or may not have done, This is about Terry Pratchett for me and this final season may not have been fully fleshed out by them while Terry was alive, but Terry helped brain storm this. I also NEED that closure for my favorite queer couple.

[@Stormchantress]

To be honest, I'm devastated that we're being Owl House'd. GO is at its core a comfort show, and after the brilliantly devastating s2 finale, I was eager to watch Aziraphale and Crowley slowly heal. I don't really understand people who just want "a happy ending" - it's a comedy, so of course it ends with a happy ending. What I was hoping to see is them fight for it and earn it by healing each other's wounds WHILE saving the world. I feel like the whole potential of the series and DT and MS's fabulous performance in the Final Fifteen will now go to waste...

[@Marrithegreat1]

@Stormchantress oh absolutely. On top of their amazing acting skills going to waste, they built up an amazing friendship over this series and they loved BEING those characters as much as we loved watching them. I'm happy it wasn't just cancelled all together, but it's a tragedy we are going to lose out on what would have been such passion from all of them.

[@julissavillatoro5725]

The hail mary for Good Omens S3 would be that that the movie does so well that they release a longer "director's cut" version. The "Pratchett" cut? I'll be making that wish on New Year's lol

[@silverwind3766]

One other Project that very likely won't get off the ground now is The Ocean at the End of the Lane. Henry Selick wanted to make a stop motion adaptation as a spiritual sequel to Coraline, but after the Gaiman fallout no producers would fund it so it seems to have quietly died before ever getting a chance.

[@heiker1351]

I like the way you handle the topic of dealing with adaptations. To cancel adaptations means that many people lose an important job and the money they need way more than the author, in this case. He probably got most of his money already, its just the money he gets for his showrunning in case of The Sandman. I understand everyone who wants nothing to do with artists that revealed such an ugly face, I really do. I know that if I read The Sandman again I will have to brace myself to not gag. But I read so many books from people who are obviously not good people. I read Ceasars De Bello Gallico. I read many very old classics, and I learned a lot. I read the favourite book of H+tler, more than once, and tried to figure out how those two characters fit together. The problem with the living ones is the feeling of betrayal. I knew what kind of person Ceasar was. I did'nt see what Gaiman was, I did'nt play Sherlock Holmes before I read his books. And after that, when I wanted to know something about the author, I did'nt dive deep. And I misinterpreted the signs that are now so obvious. Will I read the books again? I will. I will not throw them away or burn them, I'm not that kind of human. Will I enjoy them? No. But I will read them for the same reason I read Ceasar: to learn. To understand how those men function, how they think, how they operate and strategize and how they hide themselves. There are many of them and they have power. To not know them, to not understand how they funtion, how they lead and manipulate us, is dangerous. Now more than ever. They have tools Ceasar did'nt have.

[@StevenRLegge]

Coleen Doran has been working on a graphic novel adaptation of Good Omens for a while now. I'm worried about how all this mess will affect her. It's a lot of work to make a book like that for it to be tossed into the fire when it's finished because of all this.

[@juliebernstein]

I think because this is a Kickstarter that everyone has already paid for, it will probably be unaffected, unless her illness worsens. As said in another comment, The Terry Pratchett Estate is prominent in this project, as well.

[@adrianodrika]

I'm heartbroken with Sandman. And in the season Wanda would appear. She is such a great character when talking about injustice and resilience.

[@genericinsight]

Did I miss something? As far as I know Sandman season 2 is still coming out in 2025.

[@GregBlackmanMusic]

I do enjoy the rational, compassionate, but entirely non-hysterical tone of your videos. Especially on such difficult topics.

[@GregBlackmanMusic]

And in case nobody's said it back to you lately ? You are beautiful, you are valid, and you are loved too.

[@minerva9843]

This isnt about the video but... I watched your videos years ago and somehow your channel slipped through the cracks. I only recently found you again, but I didn't realize it was you until I paid attention to your intro. YOU LOOK SO GOOD! Welcome sister!

[@ShortCircuitStudios]

I don't speak for Terry Prachett, but I think he would very disappointed in Neil's behavior.

[@IntotheBangtanUniverseWormhole]

Those of you who've read Sandman will get this when I say Gaiman wrote himself into the character of Richard Madoc. Madoc was a writer who kept a Muse captive in his attic and...did worse than Gaiman...to her, in order to get inspiration. Then, at press conferences, he bragged about being a feminist.

[@Onetrueapple]

I’m just over the massive effects one person has. For example…Lassiter can’t keep his liquor and an entire division, 10,000 people at least, lost their job. In a world where good, even great content, is hard to come by, I can’t get on board with jumping away from things that I have found such joy in. It’s the dilemma of separating the art from the artist. I have not and don’t intend on getting into any details of the allegations against Gaiman. It’s just too much now that the election is over. Things are about to get real dark, my capacity to be deep into this are limited. Good Omens has been a great show that my circle has really bonded over. So I need to make space for hope there’s some resolution based on my personal interaction with his works. As I said, I have not engaged with any of the details.

[@ryanfitzgerald9833]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't think I could ever be done with Neil or Joss whedon because their works kind of helped inform who I grew up to be. Also, I'm never done with Buffy.

[@joshuaperrine2019]

Same here. BtVS/Angel is one of my favorites. This seems more like a self-inflicted, make-believe war. It's tiresome. My arms are sore from constantly having to brandish torches and pitchforks.

[@ryanfitzgerald9833]

@joshuaperrine2019 I disagree the anger is valid but art is not it's maker. If Jesus molested children his message the new testament would still make the world a better place.

[@riversong4997]

I agree. I can't go the rest of my life without reading/watching Harry Potter/Good Omens/Firefly. It doesn't mean I support any of the creators. I know they're shitty people. (Not including Terry Pratchett as a creator of GO in that, of course-GNU 😢)

[@Sophie_Cleverly]

When Good Omens s3 being just one feature length episode was announced, there was a tweet shared by Rob Wilkins/the Terry Pratchett estate (I think? I can't find it now. I think Rhianna Pratchett liked it too?) that was just a link to a page about screenwriting rules that said if you rewrite something enough you don't have to credit the person. That made me think there is a strong possibility that rewriting the episodes down to just one will count to take his name off the credits, or that perhaps he'll just get lesser credit somehow.

[@JennA-uf6lo]

I have always felt that Good Omens was VERY Pratchett. In fact, this was the first book I ever read by him (I had read Neverwhere by Gaiman some time before). Years after I read Good Omens, I picked up my “first” Pratchett book (Men at Arms) and it drove me crazy because I thought I had never read anything by him and the writing style was so familiar. I agree that it’s possible Gaiman simply adapted his voice to Pratchett’s, but that actually makes it a lot easier for me to mentally divorce him from Good Omens.

[@Fairyfink]

Never have your closing words held so much meaning for me. Moved to tears.

[@ashleejones586]

GODDAMN IT, DUDE! It is not hard to not be a creep

[@diane_5789]

I hate the fact that his actions ruined my favourite franchises 😭😭 And as a European subscriber, I feel for you and I hope you'll take care of yourself in this next difficult years. I am very sorry to all Americans that do not carry hate and fear in their heart.💔

[@anac1192]

Everything the video was really good. You put a lot of work in it. But I am going through a lot personally and your message at the end, was what I needed to hear. And I wanted to say Thank you!😊

[@eepmeep8550]

I like that the subtitles gives us Good Oman's.

[@rickkarrer8370]

It's really tough, because there has to be repercussions for behavior like his, but at the same time he's been one of my favorite authors of the last 50 years, and the productions have been worked on by so many other people.

[@PrincessNinja007]

Asking you to stop watching them is giving you personal responsibility for a systemic issue. It's not your fault as the reader that some people can get away with anything. You can't personally hold every single publisher, producer, author, promoter, etc accountable (esp without hurting the actors, poster designers, foley artists, etc). All you can do is decide for yourself if you feel you can watch the show.