Fantasyland: How America Went Haywire

[@grantmoon624]

When someone says something absurd, just say, "I don't believe that." It's powerful.

[@dabidibup]

That’s illegal now in Canada

[@charvaka9526]

Alternatively, ask: how do you know?

[@dorothyjohnson6743]

​@dabidibup is that true?

[@joshuanunn3348]

I read this book close to a year ago... he's dead on. I was thirteen and fourteen years old when Reagan ran for president and his schtick that he banged on incessantly was: "We can cut taxes, increase defense spending, and balance the budget." Even as a pot-addled adolescent I knew this to be total horseshit: "Grown adults actually believe this shit?!"

[@LAinLA86]

"Grown Republicans actually believe this shit?!?" There FIFY

[@tommyodonovan3883]

Reagan was a nationalist, untill he was shot...R was never the same after THAT. See the RNC debates between Reagan and Bush Sr, they were quite brutal with Pops Bush coming out looking the worst for wear.

[@angelicamimosa]

Every US president says the same thing regardless of what Party they run for. Basically it’s all lies and the US is actually the biggest threat to World peace and are the actual Global terrorists! The religious Zealots run that Country and its right down Creepy!

[@lisalewis4138]

That was my thoughts exactly as a 14 year old at that time.

[@peterthegreat996]

@@LAinLA86 actually a lot of democrats believed ( and still do) in that shit . Biden did then and now still does .

[@gregwarner3753]

I am reading this book. Once I thought people could believe anything. Now I know it. Excellent explaination of American absurdity. Well written and not in the least boring. Just so densely packed with information I can only absorb a chapter at a time.

[@conniepaetsch230]

Watching reality television and believing it is real. Astounding

[@whalesong999]

Best origin I can see in our post war entertainment on tv were the wrestling matches featuring characters like Gorgeous George. Some lapped that up as being real conflict, others could see it was mostly scripted and planned. Now, our "reality television" looks to be just that with a hint of the unexpected thrown in for spice. I saw only a short glimpse of 'The Apprentice' that revealed the host to be a demeaning. punitive, and self aggrandizing person who had no real respect for his guests.

[@tedcarter4258]

So true So sad.

[@carolcisko6768]

Connie Paetsch .. this man is brilliant

[@50_Pence]

Have you seen a clock work orange?

[@kellnola]

Almost all of them present human beings as authoritarian. Most people, if placed into a group with strangers, would form some democratic council, not elect a tyrant, AS THEY ALWAYS DO IN THOSE SHOWS (because they're scripted to)

[@martinobrien7110]

FANTASYLAND WE CALL IT THE LARGEST LUNATIC ASYLUM .

[@charliemorris2338]

India has no madhouses and these folks are considered divine!

[@Xxxyyyeee]

You’re right, the left lives in delusions and lies.

[@Geambasu169]

Sanitarium

[@matimus100]

More like The Greatest Story ever Told

[@54tristin]

“We are acting ungodly” because being religious makes you profoundly LESS tolerant of of peoples beliefs. Ask an atheist.

[@thethirdman225]

You don't have to be an atheist to know that. I'm not an atheist - I'm an unbeliever but I find atheists pretty intolerant, though no worse than the religious types.

[@neilsiebenthal9254]

@@thethirdman225 you should Check out talk Heathen and the atheist experience. They're what most atheist are actually like. You'll notice a big difference between them and what theist say atheist are like. It's even funnier when the theist callers are just completely rude, vulgar and telling them they're bad people..

[@thethirdman225]

@@neilsiebenthal9254 I disagree. Atheism is as much a religion as anything other. Atheists will tell you that science explains everything - ergo: it's a faith-based argument, even if atheism is more rational and realistic (faith in science). I don't even enter such debates. I'm not someone who has decided after a number of years he doesn't believe. I just never believed, even as a child. That's it. I don't have to give reasons or explanations and I'm not interested in anyone else's explanations.

[@matimus100]

Your all religious you just don't know it. Because the system is created for you. You have only two small freedoms left in our world. The 1st Amendment and Liberty Wake up world fast praying or karma doesn't save innocent women and children's lives anywhere in the world 🌎 Adults getting paid to lie to innocent children is disgraceful.

[@matimus100]

@@thethirdman225 Biden The Queen Putin and so on are all religious nut bag's Nature smashes all Supernatural beliefs. Be proud of who you are

[@barnabycollins7337]

@55:30 Answer: Mental Compartmentalization It comes along w/ being told ad nauseam all one's life that slave-traders pretty much invented freedom.

[@PORRRIDGE_GUN]

Surely slave owners? The Brits traded the slaves for cotton and sugar. Britain was the slave trader.

[@Illlium]

I don't really get being all uppity about American slavery. It's not like they landed on a beach in Africa, took out a net, and started catching negros like butterflies for a new summer collection. These people were bought and sold, which is unfortunate, but not that incredible when you think about it - Africa's food problems are not a new phenomenon, they just had too many people for the available food and no military technology to try any serious conquest, so they started trading with their only real resource - people.

[@russellesimonetta3835]

As a fringe dweller I find this very interesting. I refer to my being a fringe dweller? I am a life long musician, anti war, anti corporate, tree hugger, pot smoker, mushroom taker, agnostic! I avoided hum drum work, I avoided being tied down yet I managed to make a decent living and passable retirement by being???? My sister descibes me as a free spirit but that, coming from her, isn't a compliment. You could say i tried to control the reality I wanted from life not the reality of conventional wisdom.

[@gregvondare]

Good on ya, Russ. You took the path less travelled. And you had a life. Brilliant.

[@markjohnson5276]

America went from the land of invention.innovation and personnel wealth building economy to a service economy.Today we all live in servitude. A polite word for slavery.

[@boutchie06]

The women's movement was hijacked by large corporations who encouraged us to become wage slaves and climb the corporate ladder. Why weren't women encouraged to save money and create thier own businesses.

[@rudra62]

We will NEVER gain wealth by having a service economy without invention, innovation, and making something that someone else will buy.

[@Anonymous-yw1cv]

Economically you are corporate slaves, socially you are postmodernist slaves.

[@z0mgwhut]

So? That ain't shit compared to Trump defending Neo-Nazi's and White Nationalists on Live Television. We can /all/ agree to being a clown car. We elected a racist, Nazi sympathizing, old fucker suffering from early onset dementia. The /point/ I was making is that you shouldn't be using 'fake' in front of "alien/communist" because it implies he is neither of those things. You're not actually insulting him by writing it in that way. As far as being blocked... can't say that I care either way my man. The odds of us ever talking beyond this comment thread is slim to none unless you start stalking me (pls don't do that, you would be so damn bored).

[@z0mgwhut]

Lol, go for it dipshit.

[@m.entera3196]

I just finished reading this book and I highly recommend it.

[@Anonymous-yw1cv]

Good liberal, self brainwash some more, because that's "being educated".

[@JDMark25]

If would bother to read it, the book is not politically biased.

[@Anonymous-yw1cv]

Dunno if the book is biased, but he chickened out and said "leftist bullshit" for the camera, so I wrote him off.

[@tommyboy1653]

@@Anonymous-yw1cv He definitely cherry picks topics and rambles on like Chomsky and tells you nothing.

[@joeanthony7759]

@@Anonymous-yw1cv So what....there’s always been bull*** coming from all sides....Anderson emphasizes many times that he’s alluding to ALL Americans’ tendencies to make it or lose it, be stable or go nuts, since the country was “born.” We’re pretty obviously living in the culmination of that. Most of us found out “the hard way” that yes, there are limits and boundaries to consider and that no, there is no Utopia to be had. Who cares if this assessment came from a liberal or conservative, a theist or an atheist. It’s still in the ball-park.

[@markeross]

Love Kurt Anderson and this book. Can't believe nobody mentioned that the first audience question came from John McWhorter!

[@brian5154]

The Soviet Union defeated fascism. 70% of Hitler's armies fought in the east. Brian Fenwick

[@matimus100]

All Sponsored by Supernatural beliefs

[@mweskamppp]

That is mostly correct. The soviets got some support from the US and some fighting in africa and such. With the D-Day the germans were already defeated. The USA just wanted to get a piece of the cake - the british were somehow there as well, kept alive during the years before the end by US deliveries and 3 mio dead indians.

[@AbbeyRoadkill1]

The Soviet Union defeated Hitler's Germany, they certainly did not defeat fascism. How could they have when they themselves are the modern day fascists of 2022.

[@ennediend2865]

Excellent conversation ! 👍👍👍🇺🇸

[@Breakbeats92.5]

I would add to this list the fact that critical thought is not being taught in schools. We need to teach kids to be skeptical and highly critical if the information presented to them.

[@glennthompson1971]

Except republicans do not want people to think. They want them to be uneducated and easily brainwashed. So they undermine education & science.

[@edcatt9196]

Charles Dickens in his book 'Martin Chuzzlewit' is another very interesting outsiders view of the 'peculiarity' of the American grifter and grifted inclination. It's a very interesting, and uncomfortably accurate insight that being an insider is hard to see. When the book reached America it was not well liked by many. A too truthful mirror? Very likely.

[@gregvondare]

Actually, "Huckleberry Finn" contains all you need to know about the American character in all its glory and horror.

[@ms.carlson3904]

I admire you for reading Charles Dickens.

[@aaronmatzkin7966]

"Bunk" by Kevin Young

[@edwardmiessner6502]

The tendency of Americans to believe whatever the hell they want and the facts be damned is the fatal flaw of America. This country is going to crack up and sooner rather than later but probably not until the 2030s.

[@Anonymous-yw1cv]

It is growing with the postmodernist "counter-enlightenment" movement. The left pioneered this (Derrida, Foucault, etc), and it really took off in the 90s. Trump now uses the weapon they created, and could not control. America is gone this century, replaced by China. Probably USG default by 2030.

[@zachgates7491]

@@Anonymous-yw1cv China is a 93 percent homogeneous country, much as the USA was in the 1950s. Possible that “diversity” has something to do with a coming crack-up? Or aren’t you allowed to ask that question?

[@JPrescottQ]

I think Kurt Anderson has some insightful things to say, but I think his assessment needs some tweaking. As we cast our gaze back to the 1960s, I think history is going to label the counter culture movement not as liberal, but as libertarian. Just think about the hallmarks of the classic 1960s hippie. A deep seeded resentment of "the man," strong resistance to foreign wars (Vietnam at the time) and the acceptance of alternative lifestyles such as recreational drug use. Every one of these pillars is lockstep with libertarian ideology. As the boomers have gotten older, we can clearly see these libertarian mindset embedded in their cultural DNA. There is little to no class solidarity among them. There is an intense emphasis on individual "freedom" over collective progress/sacrifice. Boomers are the first generation in American history to their consumption levels continue to increase as they progress in to their elderly years. Just look at the Presidents of the 1960s, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Johnson. A left leading republican and 2 democrats responsible to the creation of our welfare state; you have to ask...who were the boomers rebelling against? When understood as a libertarian movement, the boomers current political leanings make a lot more sense. Trumps bread and butter were silent majority / boomer whites. We need to stop thinking of the boomers as sellouts; they were never on the side of American liberalism to begin with.

[@eatfrenchtoast]

The most sensible policies libertarians hold are the liberal ones. But individually most libertarians are delusional and when they vote it's for the nationalist. They only have the luxury of espousing contrarian views from within a liberal environment.

[@kimjohnson4278]

Speaking as a boomer, I can say you're full of shit.

[@NoWay1969]

This is a very interesting take and sounds plausible to me. I grew up watching the "hippies" become "yuppies." They were all anti-war until they got too old to draft, though.

[@RevivalOfBuzzBuzz]

So in other words, opposition to the crimes against humanity in Viet Nam was opposition to progress, and "acceptance of alternative lifestyles" is a bad sign too. Just taking note of the establishment left's increasingly fascist character in 2020. 28 M here. Fuck you, Jacob. I think you'll find there is more diverse resistance to you and your ilk than you realize.

[@RevivalOfBuzzBuzz]

@Ajit Adonis Manilal Yes, I do consider comments by someone who actually lived through the period to be more thought provoking, intellectually stimulating and compelling than a mini-essay about how opposition to the U.S. atrocities in Viet Nam was opposition to #progress™.

[@dabidibup]

Some people get to study their whole lives, others have to work

[@kmcq692]

Teaching media literacy in elementary school through college would be good.

[@JB-lovin]

If the book is anything like this presentation, I'm impressed by its vacuity. I'm now regularly amazed by how dull the thinking is today among our elites. "The experts who know things" works as both shorthand for the bias broadly shared among them and a measure of the self-delusion. Kurt Anderson gives his educated Liberal audience exactly what they already believe.

[@Phi1618033]

"America is the country of the grifted and the grifter." Bingo.

[@iliveinthekingdomofpain7692]

America is: you do your thing and I do mine. Do not interfere with me and I do not interfere with you. If the wires cross and the circuit trips, we need to learn to reset the breaker and then go our own ways. I do not judge, unless I am threatened by your judgement. Interfere with me, but do not touch me, above all: do not seek to harm me through my family, because if you do then you will die.The black muslim power structure that he threatened killed Malcolm X for one thought distilled succinctly into one sentence: “ “Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery.” -Malcolm X Indeed, they sent him to the cemetary, but those who ordered the assassination and those who actually pulled the trigger were all quietly eliminated, with ‘extreme prejudice’. All with the exception of Louis Farrakhan are dead and his time is on the horizon.

[@kayem3824]

Aaa aaaa eeee

[@99baji99]

"You're either a Duper or a Dupee." ~ Frank Reynolds

[@RevivalOfBuzzBuzz]

@@iliveinthekingdomofpain7692 That's not what America is, but it's what it should be. People like Kurt Andersen would have us forced to believe whatever he considers "rational", under threat of professional and social alienation in the 21st-century cult that is scientism.

[@leekelly1718]

Religion formed when they met.

[@SwedishMeatball972]

I appreciate this man's intellectualism, his vocabulary, his research, his point. It's good to hear someone address this topic in full. I have to say, though, that I can't finish the vid. His inability to form a sentence, commit to it, and FINISH it has rendered me annoyed. As hell. Not less so because I want to hear it. But his speech pattern has got to go.

[@shane_rm1025]

Must be why he's an author not a lecturer

[@Illlium]

Speaking off the cuff about important issues should not come very easily. Now I think about it that's probably the main problem of Americans, they instinctively feel that if someone can speak with conviction that means they know what they're talking about - another sad symptom of deep religiosity. Unbeknownst to them they just keep picking the person that has the best speaking skills instead of someone that has merit. Case in point - Donald Trump.

[@SwedishMeatball972]

@@Illlium Speaking off the cuff about issues you've thought thoroughly enough to write a book and schedule an appearance for a speech about shouldn't be strained, either. You just needed to come onto a comment over three years old to make a stupid comment about Americans and Trump? YOU are the idiot in this crowd, dude.

[@Illlium]

@@SwedishMeatball972 Found the American

[@SwedishMeatball972]

@@Illlium yeah...again...casting shallow stereotypes on YT as your only enjoyment in life doesn't remotely make you better than me. It makes you a stereotyping, shallow, ignorant, myopic, petulant troll who thinks because you're "not American" that you're better than ANYONE. Found the double-digit IQ.

[@justgivemethetruth]

OK, it sounds very interesting, and like it hits the American eccentricity nail on the head. But, I kind of feel the way so many people are coming out with clever books that spin an amusing experience are like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. That is, what do I need to know this for? I seems true from what I have read at Amazon and in the reviews, but does it talk about what this means and how understanding this might help us change it, or figure out what to do about it?

Remember USA is a two party system owned ruled by an ex-large military that says "Full spectrum domination" we own the world. Now USA troops in 172 countries over 1000 large military bases world-wide. USA always first to kill, nukes, napalm, depleted uranium, cluster munitions, agent orange monsanto, MOAB, first to Drone kill and flood Europe with refugees. Thanks to USA.

[@VioletDeliriums]

Does the US military somehow own the (so-called) "two-party system" (even though there are more than two political parties in the US), or does whoever leads us to believe that there is a "two party system" (yet undescribed in our Constitution, using the media that they own to do so) control the US military? I'd argue that the people in control are the large businesses that own the media and other tools like campaign funding & lobbying and use it to make people like you believe we have a "two party system" that might be under the control of someone else while you pretend to be uninfluenced by the business-owned media.

[@VioletDeliriums]

So let me get this straight...You believe the military tells the president what to do?

[@kencarey3477]

Stay grounded and have an open mind. The truth is. There is no truth

[@barbariouseagle3204]

I highly disagree with his point that ring wingers are more likely to be anti-truth and not willing to listen to facts than left-wingers. While I realize this is not empirical data, on my college campus I have a far easier time arguing with and having disagreements with people who generally lean right than those who lean left. From the experience I have had, those who are to the left typically get emotional and irrational far quicker than even the most radical people I have met on the right.

[@David-ng7cr]

You are so wrong

[@JaneAtwellRobinson1825NY]

Triggered lol

[@williamjameslehy1341]

100% incorrect.

[@brightpage1020]

Halway through this interview, it seems like discussion for discussion sake. Great minds talk alike... Cheers.

[@DerekFullerWhoIsGovt]

How can you believe anything when the basis of that information rests on acquiring capital not health like Monsanto GMO.

[@Ominousheat]

I'm a generation X'er and the sixties was the sigil often waved as the birth of new-age thinking inspiring the eighties children through the nineties. Whereby freedom of thought and sexuality was key to a person's emotional maturity. I totally agree with Claudermiller's statement that there was not an "I don't care attitude" amongst the left because they were clearly the ones protesting for the Vietnam war to end. They gave up lives to face the evils of McCarthyite policy which was a typical right-wing/gain votes with lies idiocracy. Their quoted plan to dumb down the public. But I think what everyone is missing is the non-coincidental relation between the rise of the religious right and the ensuing challenge of global warming. When I was a junior-6 or 7 yrs old I made a lunchtime buddy at school. She was ethnically Indian(sub-continent) with Hindu culture. I liked that. It was exotic. Anywho...I had observed the gradual loss of snow from winter and in my mind at least it definitely had something to do with the sudden rise in car ownership and industry. Especially having recently heard the UN report by Prof. Hansen. So I'm sitting there eating and I have asked my (former) friend-"What do you think of this climate change?" She simply said " We can't do anything. Only God can change the weather." I replied simply with the word "God?!". To which she responded with a scowl and said: "We aren't talking about this anymore." I won't go into the repercussions of me questioning "Gods" authority on this issue because it is simply evil and designed by her Christian evangelical out of school friend. I basically got witnessed. Pretty much ruined my life. However, that is not my point. In the seventies, Texaco circulated a letter amongst oil companies stating the danger there was with a policy of continuing to burn fossil fuels. The majority if not all of the employees at home and abroad were god-fearing Christians. Ever since then the parents have been telling their kids that only God controls the weather all the while knowing that it's their actions which were causing the problem. All those associated with big oil have been covering up the problem with suggestion and emotional bribery. It is one and the same thing. It is simply the biggest conspiracy of all time(I am not a conspiracy nut but on this issue, I have way too much-connected information to ignore it) and all the supposedly spiritually pure humans have been going along with it based on the idea that they will be saved having each been told so but left short of the numbers involved. ergo millions of others are going to be fighting for food and water but a child doesn't need to hear that and thus ignorance abounds and the child never hears the truth. They just have to carry the belief in God to believe they are safe and not a threat to the coverup. It's not insane. It's an evil incarnate.

[@joejohnson6273]

One point of disagreement I have is the claim that the internet is largely responsible for the misinformation that we see. Other industrialized nations also have the internet, and they are not experiencing ignorance and belief in outlandish ideas to nearly the same degree as Americans are. Kurt Andersen only quickly mentioned that the internet is international but then never followed up on that. Europe, Canada, and Australia all have the internet and social media and yet they are not experiencing American stupidity. Also, I don't agree that social media or the internet necessarily leads to tribalism. If people don't have these things then their circle of relations is greatly reduced. They are only influenced by people close to them and don't have easy access to opinions from people in different parts of the world.

[@Longtack55]

Whatever the medium, there will always be people who are conned.

[@freeandcriticalthinker4431]

Jeffery , it is so nice that you guys up I Aspen are so incredibly tolerant and accepting of people of all walks of life .... yes SO accepting and tolerant. Oh and polite and cordial as well and of course with no condescending or contemptuous slanted demeanor that many aspire to but few obtain. Oh what an Exceptional talk only attainable by someone of your statue, I salute you and your guest...

[@justinpursley9698]

Tolerance comes in many forms. It is one thing (and obvious) to be tolerant to someone who is born gay and not hurting anyone. It is another thing to be tolerant of a person who is bigoted towards gay people because a book filled with talking snakes and other magic told him to. Likewise, there is a difference between being tolerant towards someone who is something of a germophobe and someone who is antivax and whose kids now have polio.

[@douglashurd4356]

I would be more convinced by the thesis if it helped me understand how Americans can tolerate incarceration rates, guns, wealth inequality, unending wars, torture... Yes, many Americans believe crazy things but they also seem able to ignore the suffering they cause each other.

[@kencarey3477]

Everyone needs to believe in something. I believe ill have a scotch on the rocks

[@Longtack55]

Good one Ken.

[@garyhickman6897]

CHEERS !!!!!!!!

[@FactStorm]

In that case I'll join you then :)

[@brianjennings7644]

I believe I'd make the best King ever.. .. and, Scotch is good, yes..

[@NoWay1969]

🥃🧊build your faith upon the rocks🧊🥃

[@oldgymrat71]

If a large group of us had an inkeling of what we are missing and how much is a psychological construct with little attachment to what is real, we could establish new paradigms of how we function and deal with the new!

[@cognitivedissonance8406]

Michael McDaniel Support the death of humanity Do the right thing

[@DrTLEvans]

Excellent read!!!❤️❤️❤️

[@Sorenzo]

This discussion needs a class analysis. European politics are a balance between the power of the business class and the power of the working class. American politics are a lack of power for the working class; a lack which degrades all trust in authorities and institutions and thus a seed for all manners of kookiness. The anti-Vaccine and anti-GMO people's main argument, stated or not, is that government wouldn't tell you whether or not something was safe or not. Because the government very rarely proves it's willing to step on the toes of the relevant industries. I happen to think the anti-Vaccine/GMO people are wrong, and their views are based in pure cynicism, but why do you think Americans are so bloody cynical? They're poor and desperate. Instead of ret-conning a historical explanation for people's kookiness, maybe try to give them public institutions they can trust to improve their lives.

[@jondana8380]

Exactly right. Don't hold your breath - the US is a failed experiment in Capitalism as a political system - and the 300 million or so victims are only just beginning to smell the end coming. More bread and circuses are what is needed - because the one thing the oligarchs will NOT allow is a government of the people!!!

[@snowsongvideopix8680]

@ EmilSørensen Yes, "This discussion needs a class analysis". I agree with much of what you say, although I don't think an accurate premise can be built upon their lumping of anti-vaccine/GMO people together. They are very different, and I feel we are being gaslighted when they are lumped together by some. That being said, Emil, I do agree with several other points you make yourself, especially in regards to trust.

[@brianpetersen3429]

Sounds like an interesting book, however, I think much of this boils down to Americans consistent and growing wish for "simple solutions" to complex issues. Examples of this include: white wealthy male privilege, obsession with sports, religion, short term money making schemes, and an eagerness to jump to using war as a "quick solution" to many problems. This also explains the "anti-intellectual" thinking that allows con men like Trump to rise to power.

[@willrobinson1229]

'Tis a gift to be simple...a very American sentiment. Simplicity and purity of thought over complexity and sophistication.

[@pkell501]

Thank you, excellent and thoughtful discussion. I guess the wheel of life will keep turning. Most of the world looks on in some sort of amazement........but now has stopped being interested and are going back to their own futures. What an enormous contrast to the emerging Asian nations - and thank goodness for One Belt/One Road.

[@BillDeef]

Oh, no, the interviewer says "America defeated fascism". And the subject is the Fantasyland myths of America? Then George Washington did cut down the cherry tree. Just leave it at that. The author lost my sympathy (and dollars) when he didn't call him out on that one.

[@z0mgwhut]

America's intervention in WW2 was the starting mark for the downfall of fascisms stranglehold on the world. To be sure it was an Allied victory and credit should be shared but the war wasn't going well /before/ we joined. GW cutting down the cherry tree was a /story/ created /about/ Washington to endear him to the population. Washington never said he cut down the tree and the story didn't exist until well after his death. It's an actual myth and most educated Americans know that truth with primarily children believing the story. America defeating fascism though? Not a myth. From the Brit or Russian point of view /they/ defeated fascism and that is /also/ true.

[@thumper1747]

Bill Deef true, America was late joining what would become the Allies and many nations collaborated to fight fascism, but no one could deny America’s resourceful military might and the effect it had on the outcome. Us Brits paid America for the materials, factories and transportation in addition to the arms and there are examples of American companies (Standard Oil) supplying the Nazis essentially chemicals that kept German bombers in the air, so the war was profitable for America. It bankrupted the UK. After that, America appears to have had imperialistic ambitions making money from war and justifying it by suggesting it was protecting life and liberty. I’m sure the history books will reflect this.

[@THX11458]

You're correct. The Soviets, more than any other Allied nation, defeated the Nazis. It's a myth that the war "wasn't going well" before the US joined. It's wasn't going well for the Brits but the Soviets by themselves stopped the Nazi drive to Moscow in '41 (before the US entered the war), then crushed Army Group South (Stalingrad) in the winter of 1942 (only 3 moths after the US landed in North Africa), then defeated BOTH Army Group Center & Army Group South during the Battle Of Kursk in the summer of '43 (when the US hadn't even landed in Italy yet), then unleashed Operation Bagration against the German's that demolished the entire Axis front in the east -- an offensive that dwarfed the (concurrent) Invasion on Normandy in both size & scope. All the largest battles of WW-II were on the East Front (see links below) and losses therein far outnumbered the greatest battles of the West Front (ie. Ardennes Offensive & Casino). Between 70 and 80 percent of all German losses were on the East Front (see below) The US & UK played an important role in defeating Nazi Germany in the following ways -- 1) Shortening the war 2) Providing raw material for the war effort. 3) Saving the UK from material strangulation & possible invasion 4) (most importantly) preventing western continental Europe from Soviet occupation and domination in post war years. Largest Battles: www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/top-10-bloodiest-battlefields-of-wwii.html/2 historyplex.com/top-bloodiest-battles-of-world-war-ii www.army-technology.com/features/featurethe-20th-centurys-10-deadliest-battles-the-worst-military-disasters-4181684/ OKW War Diary - Casualty Figures Sept 1, 1939 to Jan 31, 1945 (ie - German Causalities from '39-'45) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_casualties_in_World_War_II

[@_s827]

Was that John McWhorter asking the first question? Very similar voice.

[@ianpatrick3589]

Andersen's thesis makes sense. However, how to correct things remains a mystery. And the nation that has gone haywire has the ability to destroy us all. That is also part of American exceptionalism.

[@anwiycti1585]

How about metaphysic, parapsychology? Quantum physics?

[@junglecat_rant]

It is merely astonishing that you mention parapsychology and quantum physics in one sentence. 🤨

[@RevivalOfBuzzBuzz]

@@junglecat_rant When millions of people in all ages and walks of life have all experienced a variety of phenomena that would fit under parapsychology, I see no reason to dismiss it other than closed-minded dogma. There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

[@gary100dm]

I remember a common retort of fellow liberals "Well, that's your reality." In response to any negative observation.

[@ernststravoblofeld]

I've been to Aspen, and it sure isn't where I would go to find empirical truth, but good talk anyway.

[@djalead.7301]

America: "A mad bull, lost its way."

[@joeanthony7759]

Wow, that guy who asked that question about Obama being as much a salesman as Trump may have had a point, but he’s clearly biased, using the ignorant right wing talking-points of balancing the budget and “entitlements” as a problem, probably having no idea how the monetary-system works whatsoever.

[@Illlium]

I think the guy was right, but come to think of it that's most of American president since the televisation of presidential debates. If you can make a guy like George W. Bush look credible, you call sell everything. American politicians seem to have nailed the image of the person that the people will pick, but they have no clue what policy should be instituted. It's like they're flailing in a pitch black room with a BB gun randomly pulling the trigger around for walls with legislation ideas written on them. They're so detached from their citizens it's almost hilarious. And facts, but that was already brought up during the conversation.

[@ernststravoblofeld]

At 55:20 The answer is, there is a huge difference between religion as a belief system, and religion as a team to belong to.

[@gartner101]

Ming Mongo Religion is about certainty that we are right and they are wrong and going to Hell. It has bigotry and divisiveness built in. A religious society is an intolerant society.

[@WadelDee]

48:48 "I love my children. They made my life possible." Your children made your life possible? What do you mean by that? Did you misspeak?

[@xrxs1020]

When I became a father, my life changed for the better because having children demands character. Improved character makes the better things in life more likely.

[@Illlium]

Honestly I think he meant his children are his reason to live. Judging by his in-depth knowledge about how the world surrounding him works, I kind of empathize. I don't think the line "I don't want to kill myself" was a joke, he has considered it probably more than once.

[@robertgraybeard3750]

at 8:36 "new religions" . . . "Joseph Smith" . . . how about L. Ron Hubbard?

[@jotsingh8917]

"...The wealthy, therefore, would be outvoted in a democratic system and government would be overrun by the majority of working people. To prevent the working class from attaining political power and expropriating the property and wealth of the rich (“an agrarian law”), we have to “wisely” ensure that government “protect the minority” of the rich against the majority of the poor.” ~ James Madison, 1787 while debating the constitution.

[@ownyourgov]

I wonder if reading John Rawls might better inform him and lead to a more successful book?

[@thetawaves48]

I believe that our gullible culture has alot to do with marketing.

[@JerrySmith-ih9rd]

Good point. The two are interchangeable on that account.

[@chevinbarghest8453]

I immigrated from England where drug commercials are banned... Imagine an evening without drug commercials.....

[@malachiwhite356]

This will go over big at the Aspen Institute. No elites there, just sensible common folk.

[@markjohnson5276]

Truth is an opinion based on the perceived conditions combined with prejudice to form a conscientious hypothesis of cause and effect which the perceiver relies on as a constant of the moment. The question why is the path to the truth. Also, in a dynamic environment truth is not constant. It's this kind of thinking that got us to the MOON and harnessed the power of the atom. I suspect that in America today most people won't understand these words.

[@fmanh]

Old Wisdom I give you high points for deepitys.

[@Dorian_sapiens]

Bonus points for condescension.

[@stormwatcher59]

So, it's the belief that makes it true?

[@alexweschler9470]

Old Wisdom lmao this guy

[@cognitivedissonance8406]

Support the death of humanity Do the right thing

[@richardcory5024]

It's interesting how the Christian interviewer does not see himself as part of the problem rather than the solution.

[@Longtack55]

That would be like firing himself. You are right of course. I'm looking forward to the day when a TV evangelist stands up and says "Sorry folks, it's ALL crap."

[@williamjameslehy1341]

The the the the the constant stammering and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and stuttering makes this this this this really hard to listen to.

[@twhite8308]

🧡Love🧡this🧡video🧡

[@charleshuguley9903]

How naive we were just four years ago. What they discuss had only just emerged to the surface of our culture. We didn't know what was coming.

[@franklinfalco9069]

America isn't the only country being lied to by its elites or with religious fundamentalism. A majority of americans said that they are aware that their country is on the wrong path.

[@johnries5593]

It does seem to me that suspicion of GMOs in food is justified given the that their presence is not legally required to be disclosed (in the US where I and many others reside) and as far as I can tell, the US government doesn't regulate them at all (due to very successful industry lobbying). This means that the public is expected to take the word of distributors that "nothing is wrong with GMOs" pretty much on faith (just as there is "nothing wrong" with chemical additives to food; making organic foods the sole province of "new age space cadets" according to old stereotypes). Then we have the question of whether it is in the public interest for a handful of corporations to patent a large fraction of the food supply; and minimal information about any supposed benefits to the consumer (who is not the direct customer). In any case, the lack of transparency assuredly exacerbates public suspicion, regardless of whether one believes that lizard people from another star system secretly rule the world. PS: There is a distinction to be made between religious belief and sectarianism. One can believe that one is divinely commanded to love one's neighbor as oneself and still believe that eradication of supposedly false beliefs and practices (by any means necessary) is a moral duty. Indeed, it is logically completely consistent for religious and nonreligious people alike to believe the latter.

[@richardcory5024]

Read the American Chapter in Charles Dickens' "Martin Chuzzlewit" if you would like to discover an impressions of a visitor to America from the middle of the 19th century which chimes with Kurt Andersen's analysis to a remarkable degree.

[@paulrjefferson4221]

Already on page 12 of the book...the premise is very legit.

[@oldskeptic1513]

... can someone count how many times the host could not put a sentence together and kept with 'ah' ah, ah ... where do people get the education? ...

[@azmoe99]

I don't believe in trickle down economics either, but the truth is......none of you (me included) knew ANYTHING about Reganomics at 13 & 14 years old. STOP

[@MrLGroves]

That's John McWhorter asking the question

[@truthseeker4431]

What is the basic meaning of democracy? Government by the people Full Definition of democracy: Government by the people especially : rule of the majority. b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections.

[@jameswilliams3241]

There is an old saying which I believe is an Americanism "" If you want to keep your friends never discuss religion or politics " perhaps social media allows too much sharing, lol

[@joeanthony7759]

Hard to have a stage-discussion on understanding reality better with a “believer”, even a smart, open-minded one....

[@jordansage7784]

10:00 Great point. Need the dynamic polarity.

[@54tristin]

My recall of this phenomenon is sitting at home with my mom listening to right wing talk radio,and asking my mom “how can this guy just lie “ without someone calling him. On it!

[@anastasiaanastasia1209]

Are we still the author of our own lives? Present day events may beg to differ that we are not.

[@ownyourgov]

18:48 he says, "every crackpot nutty thing", but is he talking about extraordinary creativity and that self government involves individual intellectual risk-taking, launching new ideas and re-ordering traditional understanding of the physical world so that reality is no longer impossible to scientifically explainI haven't read the book. I do not understand the myth Mr. Andersen wants to promulgate from this conversation.

[@interestingfacts1376]

As a foreign person currently living in America, this perspective by Kurt is incredibly one-sided, ignorant and bigoted. Sad that people buy into it.

[@fitveganathleteintegrateda1695]

Empirical data points and observations are not always kind to beliefs like yours. You write like you come from a third world country and are trying to be "white."

[@dellafella22]

Interesting stuff...but Morris Berman has been talking/writing about this stuff for decades.

[@joycetreadwell9542]

Teodoro Della Flora ur ra chelj

[@carbon1479]

Also New Age is really just Matthew jumping off the pages of the bible. Sure there was plenty of New Thought going on and Hermetic currents well before even the Victorian era but they didn't seem to have quite the megachurch credulity that goes with new age, The Secret, etc. etc.

[@WadelDee]

I live in Germany and there, we have two kinds of Christians: Catholics and Protestants. And the Protestants call themselves Protestants. Perhaps it's a language problem. The official adjectives are "katholisch" and "evangelisch" but the members are called "Katholiken" and "Protestanten". To give you an example, the former are the ones who say that the wine transforms into Jesus's blood while the latter say that the wine is Jesus's blood the whole time.

[@Longtack55]

And in the USA people normally identify which of the 30,000 Christians religions/sects they adhere to.

[@ammaleslie509]

Andersen and I are about the same age and we remember the 60s differently. You can create your own truth and Esalen institute and the like were not the mainstream of the culture. They were on the fringe. Those movements had a bigger impact on the privileged, and on the coasts, and among researchers looking for evidence of their influence, but the vast majority of the country had no idea any of that was happening. It had no impact on ELECTIONS and the power structure of the country in the way that "create your own reality" people have now.

[@thetawaves48]

Weren't Europeans escaping from religious persecution and wars?

[@snowsongvideopix8680]

@MarteThompson ^ IKR? Facts & Truth. You are correct.

[@fitveganathleteintegrateda1695]

It is important to understand, that most Americans that support, or supported Trump, see Protestant Christianity as a racial consideration. There is nothing "Christian" about them at all

[@Beauweir]

I find it interesting that the audience seems to need to have little laughs throughout. Even if things are quite serious.

[@phillyphil1513]

#NERVOUSLAUGHTER

[@rosemacaskie]

One of our problems is that religions have gone crazy, so you need to distiguish between relatively sound religious ideas and crazily barbaric medieval ones becaue trying to stop the extremism might be possible but trying to get rid of religion is just unreal. and we are not at a point in time when we can dream of unreal goals. New religious extremism seems to have gone global, the Orthodox Russians apparently being an ever bigger influence in the new puritanical turn in Russia,, so puritanical that homosexuals get done to death. The protestants groups are becoming out and out crazy and Catholics too, just read "REgain" the catholic sect, "the Legion of Christ's" "awareness site", to see how crazy Rome has become. Rome supports The Legion of Christ., It does not do for their extreme brain washing tendencies. The young people who get caught up with this group get brainwashed, that does not only mean that the information they receive is controlled, it also means, they get asked to deny themselves,to say that before they entered the group they did things for mean motives they had not had, who knows what is in the depth of their hearts or at rock bottom? so as to make them despise their upbringing and take up the rule of the group. Denying oneself is part of brainwashing techniques as is pain, and denying ones old self causes psychic pain as does the extremely critical atmosphere recruits are subjected to, under the understanding that any niceness about their character or what they do, will make them fall into the sin of pride, as inflicting pain in order to make people want to find relief from pain by falling in with their torturers ideas is also part of brainwashing, I wonder if such extreme methods of reducing pride are really done in order to inflict pain and a wish for relief from pain in their recruits. The trouble with this site is that it is very Catholic and so its most shocking content can change. In Catholicism the puritanical part of Catholicism that in my childhood was that of un-eduucated South American countries, is taking over the faith. There is a North American bishop, I think the Boston one, who encourages older people to talk of Catholicism in the sixties, so I am not the only one who feels this religions is taking a bad now. The religions have been thinking how to catch more public to judge from the rise of extreme members of each religion, which I suppose is due to an increase in the ability of these to pull people into extreme stances, They have all become more puritan and they ask their followers to vote for the right, so they have become a great source as voters as well as because they are becoming cruely puritanical. The only way to understand them all getting more puritanical and better at selling themselves and selling more "outre" iway out, ideas the world over, is to think they copy each others ideas on how to do so and so we need to spy on their propaganda efforts get so much better at refuting them. One thing they d and accept the crazier idea of religion though the Suffis who use extatict states are the most reasonable part of Islam.

[@ownyourgov]

He says, in so many words, that the science on GMOs is as conclusive as the science on climate change. I've not been getting that impression from reviews in scientific journals?

[@Illlium]

You got any counter-examples? I'm a GMO believer, test my faith.

[@ownyourgov]

@@Illlium You are asking for citations. Fair enough but your request comes years later, and there are new studies. So I'll look at it.

[@inquisitive.lurker]

45:55 what an absolutely delusional and misinformed "political realist". Obama didn't say healthcare wouldn't cost anything. And I wonder where this guy is now seeing all the damage that Trump has done.

[@jpotter2086]

Well he later held bibles for photo shoots. Sometimes upside down. And he wrapped himself around the flag, literally. Blecch.

[@conniepaetsch230]

Facts matter. The truth matters more!

[@user-jn5ux1ct4r]

Connie Paetsch who’s truth? Your’s? Mine? I think you may have this reversed.

[@Longtack55]

@@user-jn5ux1ct4r Facts are true/truth.

[@Industriebrot]

Great to see Foucault getting called out. The whole poststructuralism nonsense ruined everything.

[@Sidiciousify]

Foucault talked about medicine - I fail to see how he is relevant.

[@dr.christopherdiaz4473]

In what universe is Foucault a medical philosopher?

[@Industriebrot]

"Michel Foucault was a French philosopher, historian of ideas, social theorist, and literary critic." -Wikipedia

[@Sidiciousify]

The Birth of the Clinic An Archaeology of Medical Perception.

[@Sidiciousify]

All of his work is biopolitical.

[@JDMark25]

Read the book Fantasyland.

[@Longtack55]

"Reality is entirely subjective" - self-fulfilling, "whatever man" cop-out that allows all thoughts to be facts as asserted by Kelly-Anne Conway with her "Alternative facts." Any empty-headed assertion can be made if you don't need to prove it, and the assertion always has to be proven - not the opposite "prove it isn't."

[@JaseboMonkeyRex]

So it sounds like this discussion is exploring the various way the technic of critical thinking has broken down over the last 50 years or so.... it might be in the book but the methodology of mass education would seem to be a good place to explore these subjects...

[@Maddie9185]

Say the word grifter and everyone knows who they are talking about. 😂😂

[@ms.carlson3904]

Americans have a great sense of humour. They can laugh at everything.

[@jantyszka1036]

Surely this was all covered in "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds" in the 1850's - modern media have just added more fertiliser (polite word) into the situation.

[@Miguel_El_Chileno]

You need to go back to a New Version of the System you had before 1980

[@jevicci]

While I largely agree with what's being said here, I do find it hard to get past all the drawn-out "uhh, uhh, uhh" filler by both the host and the guest. It definitely has a fart-sniffing air to it.

[@Queenie-the-genie]

I’m writing this partway through the book as well as the video so who knows? I’m 73 and I very much lived through all of this and also the 50’s. What I got out of the 60’s was 2 pronged. First was the political rebellion and the anti-war movement mixed in with the very important feminist movement. No fantasy in these things. Rational actually. Then there was the new attitude towards sexual freedom. Extremely important and still going on. My first remembered TV experience was watching the McCarthy hearings. Then there was the music, dominated on the East Coast by the folk influenced Bob Dylan, Joanie Mitchell etc. Quite rational and politely oriented. Yes we all took acid and went a bit nuts but I don’t remember indulging myself in the anything goes stuff. Ibtwas as I say quite political and that was rational and mostly not at all religious. Then we also were into exploring new ideas and other spiritual paths as in meditation. Science has now studied meditators and finds that there are great benefits. i could go on and on. BTW as a New Yorker I can assure you that Donald Trump was always about the most hated human being in that city. Finally, it seems to me that the people who support him were not and still are not the counter-cultural people I have always engaged with been but rather the less intellectually inclined ,who are not intellectually curious and his appeal is to their fears and their irrational racism and stupid religious beliefs. An intelligent person cannot even bear to listen to such idiots with their shallow thing as Limbaugh and Conway

[@Longtack55]

Hello Kathleen. Yes, Trumps only sector he won in was under-educated white men. I'm 67 and still a Joni Mitchell fan.

[@myleshagar9722]

Canada was full of draft dodgers, not antiwar at all, as time has shown.

[@davegreene1198]

Earl Nightingale was the minister of Trump's, as a child. That explains a lot of how he can be so positive in the withering storm of negative press.

[@tommyboy1653]

Cherry picker of topics,in my opinion. Let's talk about who owns the IMF,or the Fed,or the IRS,or the politicians. Who is the Parasidic plutocracy exactly. Its ok I am not religious at all. Mortgages still charge twice but you don't see it. Defense budget . Tent 🎪 cities. Banker bailouts. CFR,Tri Lateral commission.Who plans the propaganda show.

[@Roedygr]

Genies and Bottles The biggest problem with GMOs is the lack of reversibility. In most cases if you discover you are doing something really dumb, you just stop doing it. With GMOs, that is not enough. You have irrevocably introduced your genes into wild plants and weeds and non GMO crops. There is no putting the genie back in the bottle. This means you need an exceptional amount of care and testing (which is incompatible with profitability). One classic example was introducing a GMO Klebsiella planticola bacterium that produces alcohol. At the very last second Michael Holmes, a student needing a project for his PhD thesis, noticed that this thing killed nearly all plants by drowning their roots in alcohol. I think we need some research why so many people are now allergic to wheat. It did not used to be so. I did not used to be, but now I am. It could be that wheat itself has changed. GMOs sometimes use genes from totally unrelated species. This could trigger unexpected allergies. We need labelling of out-of-species genes to help track down such problems. In general, I want more caution on anything you administer to almost everyone. Testing should be much more cautious than for a drug you administer to just a few people, for whom serious side effects are acceptable.

[@theresewalters1696]

Thomas Paine Age of Reason.