Farm Guardians | Guard Dogs, Llamas and Donkeys

How can you keep your livestock safe 24/7? Learn about how important farm guardians are and which animals make the best protectors. I was interviewed on the local 5pm news about the dog attacks kfoxtv.com/news/local/east-el...
Due to the recent circumstances, this is a topic that I feel needs to be talked about more. In December my farm was attacked and we had several tragic deaths. The details of that are on my Instagram post. Interesting timing as well regarding this video, since a local petting zoo was recently attacked and they lost 10 animals with many more injured. All these deaths are not because of wild animals. I hope this video can help people understand what we farmers deal with in everyday life as well as help to provide a solution for other farms that are being hit. And after watching this video I hope people understand why responsible pet ownership is so important for everyone in the community.
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My name is Meghan Arriola and I live in Texas with my husband Jaime, where I dedicate my time to taking care of exotic and domesticated animals on my farm. We run a rescue and sanctuary for animals like alpacas, birds and reptiles. I do animal education presentations for groups and schools. Our alpacas also do events where we are able to teach people about these unique animals. I have used service dogs for medical needs for over 10 years and I am an advocate for assistance animals and mental health awareness.
I am an animal educator that brings science related ideas to an audience from around the world by presenting fun and interesting topics in a family friendly way. Animals touch our lives in unique ways everyday as simply being our pets and companions, but how can we make their lives equally as special now that they live in captivity? My KZbin channel and blog explore ways to meet this goal by tackling things like animal behavior, human-animal relationships and veterinary medicine. Animal science is a great way to teach people of all ages that education is fun and nerdy is cool.
My previous animal related work experience includes working in veterinary clinics, private zoos, training horses and volunteer work in wildlife rehabilitation, rescue/foster/adoption programs and therapeutic horsemanship for children with disabilities.
When I am not working with animals, I am working at the health care clinic owned by my husband Jaime and I, where we provide services to low income, minority neighborhoods. We have been on the frontlines fighting covid19. I also have a passion for art and I am an award winning painter and photographer and published author. I am naturally very introverted but I am extroverted about sharing my passions and doing my part to make the world a better place!
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[@HappyTailsAnimals]

Here is more information on the local problem regarding dog attacks, I was interviewed by a local news station kfoxtv.com/news/local/east-el-paso-alpaca-farmer-says-dog-attacks-happen-regularly-on-her-farm

[@jameswoodard4304]

What general part of the country are you in, if you don't mind saying? It seems like the Southwest, but that's a pretty huge area.

[@HappyTailsAnimals]

Due to the recent circumstances, this is a topic that I feel needs to be talked about more. In December my farm was attacked and we had several tragic deaths. The details of that are on my Instagram post. Interesting timing as well regarding this video, since a local petting zoo was recently attacked and they lost 10 animals with many more injured. All these deaths are not because of wild animals. I hope this video can help people understand what we farmers deal with in everyday life as well as help to provide a solution for other farms that are being hit. And after watching this video I hope people understand why responsible pet ownership is so important for everyone in the community.

[@fernj665]

Happy Tails okay, I’m really glad you ditched the blue hair, not to sound rude, but it made me so confused

[@lauramurphy7065]

@@fernj665 how stupid do you have to be to comment something like that under a comment about a tragic death?

[@ShadowIsMoi]

I owned a Great Pyrenees growing up (as a family dog, not a LSG) and it was the best dog I've ever had in my life. Calm temperament, but ready to defend her family, amazing family dog and so gentle. Amazing dogs and yours are adorable.

[@lindsayrserrano]

Jay Avera they’re amazing animals. The Great Pyrenees I grew up with was the absolute sweetest girl. Huge lap dogs that you can’t wear black around, ever! She would bark like CRAZY though lol we used to have neighbors complain and we had a good 6 acres between us and other homes lol

[@myfivebrats1972]

I have one he is very sweet he makes a great family dog

[@user-mm7ll4lb6i]

Kangal is the best dogs , alabi dogs kafkaz dog , sarplanic dog 🐶.

[@leopardgeckotalk]

RIP Lykan 😪 the two new pups are adorable. Really interesting video :)

[@HappyTailsAnimals]

Thank you❤

[@nicoleanimalover239]

@@HappyTailsAnimals you owned a great pyrenees also sorry I didn't know

[@TheSamuraiGoomba]

I hate it when irresponsible dog owners let their dogs run loose or don't properly set up their property to contain their animals. In the city, loose dogs threaten other dogs, cats, children and pedestrians. As well as running the risk of being killed by cars. In the country, loose dogs kill livestock. I think the state should put more effort into tracking down negligent pet owners and hitting them with fines and fees. The dogs can't help but be the way they are. It's up to the owner to do a good job caring for them. I've had several dogs and always made a great effort to keep them properly leashed, fenced or contained at all times.

[@evankinkelaar2178]

Most dogs were bred to protect livestock

[@Carriesue1982]

@@evankinkelaar2178 Wrong. ‘Most’ dogs were not bred to guard, only a small handful of breeds were bred specifically to guard livestock and this does not include herding breeds. Guarding and herding are two VERY different things. People forget that dogs are predatory animals, they are not little humans but predators with prey drive and hunting instincts. Letting your dogs run loose is so widely irresponsible not only for other people and animals safety but also your dogs safety. Dogs should NOT be allowed to run loose off their owners property, I will shoot dogs that come onto my land.

[@servicedogangelthunder135]

I'm so sorry for your lost. Rip lykan. Your new puppies are adorable.

[@coolgirl23145]

Who knew donkeys could be such savages🤣🤣im really amazed by that

[@thelittlestpika]

That's really interesting! While I don't own livestock myself, a lot of my family does and coyotes are a huge problem for them out here.

[@meganalissa6767]

Well said, my dad was telling me about I think it was his aunt and uncle back in the 60's tried to use a wolf hybrid as a guardian and it killed their sheep. Also I never knew donkeys were like that so I'm glad I know that now.

[@lindsayrserrano]

Megan Alissa wow his aunt and uncle really didn’t see that as a possible issue...? It’s a damn wolf lol.

[@nojorooney]

There are countless fairy tales of wolves eating sheep and they chose a dog with half wolf in it? This is a joke btw, I know wolves aren’t evil like fairy tales portray them.

[@Loveofpets]

Thanks! You are very knowledgeable!

[@HappyTailsAnimals]

Thank you!

[@dagmargross6064]

Amazing how very switched on and informed this young lady is about this subject! Great advice!

[@lori8861]

Best video I have watched on this subject. My guard llama passed at 22 years old. Best guardian I have ever owned.

[@cass3652]

Your voice is so nice. It's soft. I'm sick with some kind of virus right now and seeing a calming video helps my stomach calm down a lot. Other videos give be anxiety and disrupt my stomach. ❤

[@samuelmorgan237]

I disagree with you about donkeys, if the donkey has bonded with sheep/ goats they will protect them at all cost. I own several donkeys (6) and they never have hurt the sheep or goats.

[@lindsayrserrano]

Samuel Morgan she was mainly talking about llamas and donkeys. They don’t get along that well.

[@YSLRD]

Missouri University Extension recommends donkeys with sheep and goats. They say you have to find a gentle donkey.

[@alphasiera1757]

How about guard dogs instead?

[@mikes3827]

@Samuel Morgan Agreed. The only reason that brave donkey was mauled by the 2 put bulls was because it was a MINIATURE donkey. God love the little donkey for its bravery, but it looked even small for a miniature donkey. If they had a regular-sized donkey, or even a Mammoth Donkey breed, guaranteed those 2 pit bulls would have either run away or would have been killed. Donkeys are smart enough to know how to weaponize their rear kicks, and one good kick to either of those dogs' heads and it would have resulted in a dead dog. Plus donkeys have massive teeth and will bite, and can also use their front legs to stomp. The problem was not having a regular-sized donkey to guard against dogs.

[@lincarr3793]

They are so fluffy and cute. I pray they will work out well for you. Your video is interesting and very informative. God bless you and yours, Lin

[@mermaidheather5049]

Thank you sooooo much for mentioning purchasing working dogs, from working dogs! 👍

[@whimsicalcorgi]

Thank you for the helpful information. My partner and I in the near future are preparing for a small farm, and as I was researching, this vid popped up. I know its been sometime however, I’m sorry for your loss. I’m sure the puppers are doing a great job!

[@sydeem]

Hi, what conclusion have you guys come to? My husband and I are considering the same thing. He leans toward donkey I lean towards dog as a livestock guardians. I feel like the cons of a donkey way outweigh that of a dog.

[@piarossi1734]

Very informative, thank you! My neighbor has a couple of big dogs as guardians. He also has guineas as a handy alarm system 😁 They are incredibly loud 💣

[@lucyfierro3936]

Hi Meghan love the video :) Thank you for letting people know about guard animals their very important to any one who has animals especially in farms!:)😉🐈🐎🐮🐷 keep up the great work!😘

[@CliffordBustria]

This video topic Rocks!!!

[@LucyKamm]

Great video! I live in a city but I absolutely love this type of video. I'd like to see more videos like this, especially videos about llamas :)

[@jebbymomma4256]

Awesome video I learned a lot ! Great topic

[@bohdiedraws7778]

I lost my chicken and duck recently and was very sad since they were my pets. This video helped a lot. ❣️

[@introspectiver1787]

Thank you for this!

[@BearMeat4Dinner]

I’m going to be keeping my livestock near my house. The dogs will have free roam.

[@biocactus5992]

Are chickens when out are protected by are Labrador, as are area where we live is filled with cats and foxes and it's so interesting, proper lsg are amazing, great video

[@hamsters0963]

Idk man I’ve had three donkeys and none of them were ever any sort of aggressive towards other animals

[@sumanghosh-pb3dw]

1:07 - biggest problem is dogs. 1:26 - dogs kill livestock 4 fun. I read that somewhere. 2:09 - not just stray n feral dogs. A lot of times it's pet dogs. 3:00 - fencing isn't always possible. 3:20 - fencin may b 2 expensive. 3:55 - even people steal livestock. 4:05 - donkeys used 2 guard r real aggressive. 4:50 - donkeys can b fenced outside of where animals r. 5:26 - donkeys can attack livestock they're protecting n kill them. 7:29 - llamas don't need trainin 2 guard. It's natural. 11:39 - get pups from workin parents, not pets. Parents have 2 b on a farm protectin livestock. 12:06 - her two Great Pyrenees came from workin farm. The parents guarded even the chickens.

[@jorgecanales798]

Great information, thanks! I’m considering having the 3 species but I want miniature donkeys so they’re not going to be guardians, just pets and garden fertilizer. I’m considering having llamas and dogs because I want to have goats as well as poultry. And I’m actually considering getting pure Great Pyrenees or Great Pyrenees/ German Shepherd cross. One question, do the LGDs (livestock guard dogs) have to be socialized with other dogs if you have other dogs that are just pets and be socialized with your family and friends?

[@HappyTailsAnimals]

I only reccomend pure bred, just because that seems to have better results. They need to be socialized with the family and the family dogs. I'm not socializing mine with any other dogs.

[@jorgecanales798]

Happy Tails thanks, I thought cross breed dogs were also good at it. But I rather trust someone with experience than my mind

[@davidbenner2289]

Good class.

[@Randib00]

Can the LSG still be family friendly and guard effectively?

[@vickynike2758]

I don't know if you still have snails but I wanted to ask you a couple of questions since I found a baby one in a plant that I got and decided to keep the little one. What kind of vegetables did you feed to your snails? How long did they live? I read that they hibernate in summer and in winter, should I let mine do that?

[@alyssagrowden5168]

She has a video on snails on her channel if I remember correctly. Other than that do some research

[@lesbinturong9605]

Tibetan mastiffs (not chinese mastiffs, easily confused) are also very good livestock guardians. They're one of the oldest recorded breeds of dog and were used in Tibetan steppes as livestock and property guardians as early as 1100 BC. They're large, powerful dogs with incredible strength and stamina. They're also extremely intelligent. Tibetan mastiff owners tend to describe them as human-like in mindset, self-posessed and stubborn. They need to be socialized very early on to be made trainable in any capacity. However, regardless of training, they naturally bond to and guard livestock with extreme gusto, since it's what they've been doing for thousands of years.

[@lisaflint7027]

I was considering getting Kangal guard dogs, but after researching the various guard breeds, it seems Great Pyrenees are a better choice. Kangals are excellent livestock guard dogs, used for 100's of years by Turkish livestock farmers, they not only protect from predators, but are very protective of their humans as well. But, they are not friendly towards other humans or strange pets who might be visiting the family. But the Great Pyrenees don't have that problem, and are more flexible as long as they know the strangers are no threat to them or their family. Thanks for reaffirming my choices, which now may include some Llama's! Love the names of your puppies, you must be a fan of the Vikings as I am!

[@alphabetazouloulou2958]

I am very sorry for Lykan :(

[@introspectiver1787]

Your dogs are amazing! Also poor lycan.

[@evanlipps1372]

So the question I have is: Do you have to get puppies in order for them to guard the livestock or can you go with adults?

[@NadineBalaji]

The animals have to have bonded.. I don't think an adult would be good but maybe a teen?

[@bella_james1187]

Great Video

[@sadie333]

Amazing video I love your channel very interesting topic this topic needs to be more spoken about on pet tube!Can you do more hedgehog videos?

[@melaniemaitre8983]

Could you train a German shepherd to guard, or is it impossible?

[@xobrebre23]

Can you please make another video about livestock guardian dogs? Go into depth more. Thank youuu!

[@blackwolf1013]

I want a couple llamas to protect my livestock. However, I have both dogs and cats. Would the llama still view these pets of ours as predators?

[@maplegirl7450]

Please help, I work on a farm and have chickens, duck, geese, llama, goat 2 great pyranese that are very old and just got 2 great pyranese puppies. The puppies are 16 weeks. They have mauled and killed 4 chicken. They have tasted.blood. what can be done with them. Is it too late to keep them as guard dogs?

[@melodyy.3456]

My puppy looks just like the one in your hand !!

[@crygrip]

Aww

[@williamcotter5960]

Does a llama join the herd of alpacas? Can one llama be with 3 alpacas or will it need its own heard as well? Thank you

[@lemonn_tineee668]

Yeah they’ll bond

[@tiffanylehmkuhl6715]

The puppy is so floofy!!!

[@DiscoveryWonders]

[@davidbenner2289]

How do llamas react around bear? A friend tried pack goats, which became terrorized what they got a whiff of black bear. I'm looking for a pack animal that ignores bear. I'm in the black bear capital of Virginia which has part of the Appalachian Trail running through it, as well as both forks of and the Shenandoah River running through it. We have black bear, coyote hybrids, bobcat, fox, raccoons, possum, barred owls, red tailed hawk and bald eagles. We had great success with our search and rescue dogs, border collies but, we have one left and has become old and disinterested.

[@p3achy_142]

Hey and omg I love ur channel

[@alvinstockbridge2589]

You are 100 % correct . People listen to this lady .

[@naveed1197]

Which breed is in your lap?

[@dokoham1]

@MJ_Happy_Tails cannot find the page?

[@dokoham1]

twitter.com/MJ_Happy_Tails

[@ryannheninger1602]

How do the guard llamas and guard dogs get along? Can there be confusion for the llamas?

[@HappyTailsAnimals]

None at all. Llamas are very smart animals. They can be introduced to friendly dogs.

[@ryannheninger1602]

Happy Tails Omg!!! Thank you so much for the reply. I’m a new follower and love your account and animals.

[@txmde8777]

Our deer lease growing up had a herd of goats that were protected by 2 big Great Pyrenees and 2 donkeys... And yeah I agree the donkeys were def more unpredictable than the dogs lol...

[@cadydenning-kras2907]

How do you prevent flys from eating their poor ears? My own dogs who aren’t LSG’s have this issue during the summer because they are outside dogs. And I feel so bad for them.

[@HappyTailsAnimals]

We control the fly population with free range birds like chickens, guineas, and peacocks. Birds have to work too, I cut down their feed during summer.

[@cadydenning-kras2907]

Smart!!! Thanks for the reply!!

[@flowerchild8025]

Well also if you have bat boxes and then maybe release some bats they can help. Also there are some non toxic fly sprays you could try.

[@daltonb3505]

But I love your work and was wondering could goats protect livestock.

[@alyssagrowden5168]

No

[@flowerchild8025]

No they would really be the ones who need to be guarded lol.

[@CaptainWolfStudios]

You said that llamas will attack dogs to protect their herds, so how do you go about socializing/training the llama to accept the guard dogs and not view them as a threat while still allowing them to naturally protect against other dogs? I'm actually really interested in having a few livestock animals when I have my own place in a few years and everyone I know who has owned livestock animals have had issues with feral dogs/neighbours dogs attacking their animals so this topic is really interesting to me and I'm definitely looking forward to future videos about it!

[@flowerchild8025]

CaptainWolfStudios I really have no idea but I think that they will see that the guard dog is no threat to the livestock, but a wild/free dog will attack animals and they would see it as a threat.

[@jrcu19]

What if you get a Llama as a protector but you don't want it to attack your dog?

[@9razzler9]

im just surprised great pyrenes are guardians lol I always see them as a gentle giant floof!

[@jazlynoctavia7885]

What about Emus that's what we have at our farm

[@HappyTailsAnimals]

An emu that will actually chase a dog is also going to chase its owner. They also have no interest in other animals the way that llamas and dogs do, nor do they have the physical strength of any of the animals mentioned. Emus are not guardians, they only save other animals by chance. I won't promote the misconception of them being guardians since the real life results are so bad.

[@jazlynoctavia7885]

@@HappyTailsAnimals We have had emus for years on our farm protecting our birds and they have never chased us and are very friendly I think if you mentioned alpacas as guardians for places with fox problems then Emus tho they may not take down a wolf defently have pretected against many foxes mink fishers and so on without aggression towards humans ever, I also would say they have power behind them and are a very strong animal and I can't see why they couldnt take down a dog if needed.

[@HappyTailsAnimals]

I actually said that alpacas as guardians is a stupid idea, just in different words.

[@jazlynoctavia7885]

@@HappyTailsAnimals I'm sorry for the miss interpretation but I still belive emus to be good guardians for the right live stock, now I would not use them for cattle or horses but fowal and even goats seems to have been a very good fit with very nice temperament with all of emus throught the years.

[@kaptainkpop6750]

Emus will kick a coyotes to death as long as you have two. An ostrich will do even better

[@eddieandrews3854]

Will llamas guard chickens?

[@mariameza5465]

Yay

[@n40m3h]

I think In the U.K. a farmer can shoot a dog on the spot if he injures (or maybe worries too) a sheep or other livestock.

[@HappyTailsAnimals]

The same for Texas and some other states, but it doesn't prevent an attack unfortunately.

[@lindsayrserrano]

Same in the US but... it’s kind of difficult to be in the right place at the right time. And it doesn’t stop attacks from other animals. It’s best to have a guardian animal who lives with the animals. This way, stray dogs can get chased off and not killed. It’s not their fault.

[@bryangamino6354]

💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜

[@JAvery-vb9lm]

I worked at a horse farm that leased to dog protection specialty cple brothers. One did property and close protection and other did farm or livestock protection. They always used to say I need to know what owner purchaser needs b4 I can choose the right breed for the job. For livestock protection they would on big ranches u cld never fence off the would build rings of different dog breeds that were different the closer the predators got to prey. Fence or Ring of teeth

[@luisvilla799]

Can you have both guard donkeys and dogs because I know donkeys hate any kind of dog

[@robbiereacts22]

Wow! Where are these packs of dogs running wild. I live in San Diego right by the San Diego zoo so it’s more city. We do have coyotes so I have to watch my dogs when I take them out at night and early morning

[@whathehellll]

When can I find a lama

[@flowerchild8025]

If you mean where, look up breeders near your area and don’t forget to do extensive research on their care.

[@liberty9567]

Can you do a duck care

[@jacbambi]

My farm dogs are Caucasian shepherds and a central Asian shepherd

[@thecutieandpandafam1650]

What about a cat the gard bunny and Guineapig

[@user-rq4kf6dr7t]

And geese.

[@sumanghosh-pb3dw]

8:14 - Happy Tails, but Bernese Mountain Dogs r herding, I read. In different sources, I read that herders will protect livestock. The World Book Encyclopedia's info. about the Rough Collie, The Simon and Schuester's page about the Pembroke Welsh Corgi, and about anothr herdr say this. I saw a program which seemed real about Border Collies protectin from a cougar when owner wasn't around. Another dog program inplied Borders will protect. Feedback from anyone.

[@MJ-uv6pp]

I have a farm and our biggest problems are fox and raccoons. They can pull chickens right through a chain link fence.😬👎 We’ve fixed the problem though.

[@TheAnnArnold]

😿

[@krisk4114]

Wait do llamas attack humans that they dont know

[@HappyTailsAnimals]

Yes some do

[@krisk4114]

@@HappyTailsAnimals ok but if a little kid came over with her family and we walked them in would they still attack

[@konner2024]

Omg big fluffy puppies their sooooooo cute but soooo not my type of dog

[@lauracaton7093]

LLAMAS!!!!!!!!!!

[@motto666]

Very good analysis, you should be a stock broker???? BTW get rid of the music please.

[@AshGreen359]

Livestock Guardian dogs bark all night long like it's their job, because it is. They are also known to be escape artists, they like to roam a large area. Not great pets, and a bad option if you have neighbors nearby

[@wolf23ize]

Beautiful girl

[@daltonb3505]

Sorry to say this but you forgot one farm guardian and that is a guard goose.

[@HappyTailsAnimals]

I actually have a goose that is very good at protecting the birds. In fact she kept all the ducks alive during that attack. But she would not survive going up against a large dog. So no, I did not forget to mention a goose. A goose is not a farm guardian.

[@TheDesiLiter]

What do you think about Caucasian shepherds? :)

[@flowerchild8025]

TheDesiLiter I think if you do a lot of research on them, and if they’re guarding dog that would be great!

[@TheDesiLiter]

@@flowerchild8025 I do know about the dogs. I was wondering about her personal opinion on them as guarding dogs. They're kinda special you know.

[@avaspringkamper1412]

Mules??

[@HappyTailsAnimals]

Sometimes, depends on the animal. I guess it depends on which side of their family they favor 😂

[@rugglesmachunzy8944]

What are you doing for the rest of your life?

[@saintca8037]

Where’s the donkey bois at

[@Floof_Factory]

Guard goose 🤔

[@daltonb3505]

Sorry if I was rood

[@wildthings1280]

Hi

[@manolodlospavos]

male donkeys is or can be very agressive to newborn goats and sheeps.,so them ain´t no good for protection,but females is.mules too,even better because bigger.mule can kill lots of dogs or wolves in one night,but must always be females .but you is right ,dogs is worse as predators, because little fear of humans so do make more damage to livestock. but hey ,wolves too kill more than can chew same as minks and foxes when in chickenpen. greetings from spain..

[@mamastorey591]

My pitbull is crazy and lunges at other dogs i dunno what to do I love him so much and I don't wanna give him away ;-;

[@flowerchild8025]

Mama Storey I hope this doesn’t sound rude but maybe a muzzle? I would also say a red bandanna on the leash, it signals a lunging/sick/crazy dog that you shouldn’t come up too. Also I mean a muzzle will also help

[@YSLRD]

He isn't crazy. He's a pitbull. SOME of them have a fighting gene.Please consider rehoming to a more assertive person.

[@Nadia_Serbie]

I love your video's 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿#Scottish

[@2heavy4udude]

I guess my 7 Akita’s wouldn’t work 😂😂😂 they’d protect my family and the house but they might kill other animals

[@yourlocalalexis4578]

also have hunters shoot the dogs at night with thermal vision scope...

[@natalieheiden7720]

Why do you barely mention the horses in any videos??

[@HappyTailsAnimals]

This video isn't about horses but good job finding something stupid to be offended by. I have a horse playlist fyi

[@natalieheiden7720]

@@HappyTailsAnimals in not offended I was just curious☺☺ and sorry I didnt know you had a playlist about them

[@HappyTailsAnimals]

Glad you aren't upset! People get mad at the dumbest things. Yes I make horse videos 😁

[@annalisa14]

Please change the whistling music …

[@HappyTailsAnimals]

No I like it but thanks for your opinion

[@alvinstockbridge2589]

Gun . The best protection is a gun .

[@ARies-ol3pm]

sheesh...dogs are sociopaths

[@ROSALIEIK]

i dont like dogs any other animal can guard my house form bad people? or just animals that work agaisnt other animals aside form dogs?

[@melbro62]

donkeys are great ... but ... only if you have one or two. never a group or they will only take care of themselves and ignore protection of the sheep. don't dismiss them.