Farmall Super M Rebuild Ep.26: Grinding Valve Seats & Installing The New Valves

[@chattonlad9382]

Love the attention to detail from both of you, nice to see it done properly.

[@Ham68229]

My old vo-tech teacher taught us that as well, the 3 angle grind, was also taught to do a finish "grind" by doing the hand lapping. Just an extra step but, was/is always worth that extra little bit. So, a big thank you to you for showing that. This is one excellent reason why I truly enjoy watching both of you work on these "projects". Just brings up good ol' memories from when I went to school to learn this stuff. I've forgotten more than most will ever learn today unfortunately. Great video, cheers :)

[@leoashrae4199]

Even with new valves and re-grinding the seats, I still hand-lap them in with valve grinding paste (good old Clover Leaf). I do this because I can better see really small pits and the occasional groove caused by a bad stone. It's just easier to see flaws on the matte-surface of a freshly lapped seat. Another tidbit, for what it's worth; our shop installed quite a few "Super-M" kits back in the 60's and 70's. These were the IH factory kits that included the new sleeves and the "Fire-Crater" pistons. Most of the older kits did include valve-stem oil seals. They were rubber seals (I assume rubber...they were black at any rate) that were molded around a metal ring. They even came with a handy hollow punch that made installing them a snap... just slide the seal over the valve and stem and tap them down with the punch. I have no idea if this was an M to Super-M retrofit requirement (maybe IH thought they needed additional sealing for the old M valve stems (?), but the later kits did not include the seals or the punch. Keep up the great videos. They bring back my recollection of details I thought were long forgotten.

[@klaasbloem]

I agree with you, but as there is only one spring per valve in this case it will rotate a lot and grind itself in (more then you would like in the long run).

[@paulcopeland9035]

The idea is not to have "bad" stones. A proper dressing tool and knowing how to use it will have stones like new for many jobs.

[@leoashrae4199]

@@paulcopeland9035 Really? If you've never come across a bad stone, you haven't been doing this long enough. Even top quality makes like Sioux and AMCO have their share of trouble with everything from voids and inclusions (like tramp metal) to poor or incomplete bonding. I've had a brand new AMCO valve seat grinding stone completely fly apart because it was poorly bonded to the arbor hub. It didn't hurt me, but it sure scared the heck out of me. And, these problems can't be fixed with the dressing tool. The only way to verify that the stone is clean, spins true, and isn't wearing too fast that it leaves a rounded edge, is to inspect the valve seat... and flaws are easiest to find when the seat has been lapped. Don't hope or guess that the valve will seat. Verify it! Lapping is cheap insurance to check your work and your tools.

[@jenniferwhitewolf3784]

Great to see the old valve and seat grinders in action. I grew up around engine shop.. this is like spinning the clock back many decades👍.

[@LyleBrand]

love it there are still a few of us left that know how to use the old tool

[@rudyvanmersbergen658]

We finally caught up to you on the super m engine rebuild always like to see new videos, thanks.

[@northstar2007]

with the time and care you are doing to make this all come together that engine should run better than brand new :) I look forward to hearing it!

[@garyfeltus9801]

Great video Sr. The motor going to be better than when it was brand new. Thanks for sharing.

[@ethanmorton7122]

can't wait to see this machine put back together.

[@whathobogrohknows]

I think is amazing that your senior and squatch has the patience to do all of the checking, and fixing like that and still making a great video

[@deanehill9730]

Very thorough assembly. That will be an excellent cylinder head.

[@waltermattson5566]

You guys do a great job. Never in a hurry either.

[@MacGyver-1]

I love my neway valve seat cutter, I have rebuilt 7 motors so far all running great and haven't had an issue yet with the valves

[@charlesward8196]

I love the brass Eagle Oiler!

[@bobpaterson1845]

Really interesting video and well explained for the layman, I was really pleased that u checked the collets were seated using a mallet cos I have always done that but always wondered if it was necessary 🤔👍👍

[@kenthawkins2418]

Well done sir. I really enjoyed this. You "Squatches" really have a nice, ( and CLEAN!) shop....I haven't seen anything you guys CAN'T do!👍

[@dearanel936]

And hydraulic systems it brings me great Joy to remember going to school. God I love your classroom.

[@frankdeegan8974]

As I recall early gas engines up to the fifties or so had just two angle valve grinds then for whatever reason the three angle grind was used. This was for better fuel economy, horsepower and prolonged life of the valves. The drawing for the two angle grind did make it apparent that the valve did not have a fine finished set of surfaces. Removing any and all rough surfaces or angles for best air flow is a big plus.

[@evankibbe590]

The same procedure i use. Everything except the chalk . I've learned a lot about the M . I Didn't know they didn't have valve seals. It doesn't have sodium fild valves . IH used some of them but I don't remember in what . And you should never face them . Because it can give a bigger chance of the head popping off . Just a tid bit of information. I thought you did a better job than most machine shops. . I'm getting ready to do the head on a Fairbanks Morris model Z series C . We started to overhaul it . And found a cracked in the water jacket and head and water tank. We welded the cracks and got a excellent job of . We used Muggy weld 77 . Very good for that . It the first time I used it and i was impressed with it .😊😊👍👍👍💥🌎

[@paulcopeland9035]

Muggy weld has good products. Their silver braze/solder is a life saver!

[@smillsy23]

Nice & tidy! Clean as a whistle!!!

[@alanharney5278]

Takes me back to Auto Shop in high school in the 60's.

[@KennyKizzleRustyNutzRanch]

Man I wish I had some [all] of those handy tools! I have a couple cylinder heads that could use that treatment! Great video, Sr.!

[@ryanfrederick4889]

Don't forget about Farmall-Land on the way back!

[@KennyKizzleRustyNutzRanch]

@@ryanfrederick4889 It'll be too late in the day when we go through that area, unfortunately.

[@rudyvanmersbergen658]

Always like new videos thanks.

[@dearanel936]

I love returning to class. Even better having to mentors. It reminds me of classes that I had taken at the brazosport college in clute Texas many years ago my course of study basic engines emissions Jimmy 1 Cummins one cat 1 power trains and

[@seniorelectrician6831]

glad to cover things up again

[@ClaudeAlmighty]

I heard that hardened valve seats eliminate the need for using a lead substitute. I'm assuming all new valves are hardened. Any thoughts? ...Thanks for posting this!

[@wackowacko8931]

On older engines, it isn't really necessary to run a valve seal on the exhaust. Exhaust pressure inside the exhaust manifold tends to push air and oil up and out of the guide, which blows oil out of the guide. In a lot of instances, removing the valve seal on the exhaust guide will increase the amount of oil in the guide without burning off extra oil, which is beneficial to the life of the valve. Increasing the amount of oil that an exhaust valve sees on it's guide will help with wear and also with cooling in most engines. Exhaust valves get pretty hot, so any increase in cooling can help a lot - it is why most older valves use a rotator, to cool the valve by contacting cooler parts of the valve seat and to even out wear. The intake valve sees vacuum inside it's intake manifold, which tends to draw oil into the guide and then into the cylinder. Oil burnt in any cylinder will increase emissions, and oil will also cause pre-ignition in the cylinder when it is burned. So, if it is a thing that concerns you, you can run an older style umbrella seal (like on 55-72 chevy engines) on the intake to reduce the amount of oil that gets into the cylinder. Since an intake valve is already pretty cool, it isn't necessary to cool it any more in this instance. The Viton seals that modern cars use keeps almost all the oil out of the guide. The big reason that they use them is because they reduce emissions and to a lesser extent the pre-ignition that it causes. Manufacturers want to reduce emissions to the absolute minimum, which is why they use them. Unfortunately, the reduction in oil causes accelerated early guide wear in most engines, and also causes exhaust valve and seat wear because of the reduction in cooling.

[@1crazynordlander]

Good Job! Can't wait for you to fire the Super M up! Full watch and thumbs up!

[@coniow]

That was very informative. Thank you for posting.

[@bcbloc02]

A lot of turbo engines don't have valve seals either. I am guessing since they figured these engines would spend most of their life wide open with limited vaccum they would not draw enough oil to be a problem.

[@ron827]

Did the factory also do three angle valve seats and hand fit them?

[@cassiuspuckett8789]

Looking good so far.

[@michellehoefer5922]

Thank you for the video

[@chrisskelhorn5727]

Another good one Senior! Thank you! :-)

[@jankotze1959]

Well done, the detail is amazing

[@OldtimeIronman]

Probably the only farmall in America with a 3-angle valve job. How do you know how long to grind each seat?

[@alwaysbearded1]

What is the sewing machine oil for? stones or?

[@blueridgeburnouts8265]

Brilliant

[@BigJohn51976]

Thanks for the video. I just asked junior how you where doing on the Super M. I have seen people just put a compound with a grit in the compound. They put the vale in rubbed the compound inbetween the vale and the seat, hook up a drill to the vale and spin the vale in the seat and in the head. Is that a poor man's way to do it.

[@matty2helpfull]

As I see these super m rebuild detailed videos i want to rebuild mine more and more maybe once you get done with hours ill start mine

[@iamrichrocker]

Like Father, like Son...

[@wilmamcdermott3065]

Best way is with laping compound

[@brianmcmenamin7269]

How did you get the stone guide to clamp or lock inside the valve guide?

[@leoashrae4199]

The mandrels, also called pilots, are made to center themselves in the valve stem and, when locked, fit quite tightly. There are generally speaking three locking systems used in these pilots. The Sioux machine I used employed all three: The expanding mandrel type, which use a tapered plug which wedges itself as it is drawn up into the split base of the hollow mandrel, the tapered pilot type and the eccentric locking type. Some claim that the three-slot hollow mandrel provides the best concentricity (and it's the one used by many race car engine builders) but, it does take several cranks of the wrench to get it tight. It also has a tendency to get stuck in the valve guide if you get it too tight. The tapered pilot type uses a very slow tapered section which simply wedges itself into the valve guide as you twist it ( I think this is the type Squatch SR. was using). And last, there is the cam type which uses a cam on a central spindle which turns out from the body of the mandrel to lock it in place. These are usually used in production shops because they lock quick, tight and release quickly. Which of these pilots to use is pretty much a matter of the valve stem size and the application (how tight are your concentricity tolerances). Any of these pilots (if in good condition) would certainly work just fine for this 70-year old engine.

[@brianmcmenamin7269]

@@leoashrae4199 Thankyou Leo for your very comprehensive reply.👍

[@brianmcmenamin7269]

@@squatch253 Thankyou Squatch. 👍

[@wilmamcdermott3065]

I always do 3 angle valve seats

[@mohabatkhanmalak1161]

First viewer and nice to see project Super M coming along. Just curious about the make of your grinding machine, is it a Milwaukee.??

[@notajp]

Looked like a Soux.

[@kevinoscarson2941]

There will come a day where we will regret all the things we dumped in the trash. Not everything comes in a remanned box from the factory.

[@grantyouful]

Are you planning on painting the engine when done

[@wilmamcdermott3065]

What did u do with the guides

[@goodfortune6399]

Nice job sr. Its no wonder little squatch can fix anything. Do you not have to lap the valves at all? Thanks for great video

[@paulcopeland9035]

No.

[@leoashrae4199]

It depends. See my reply to Mr. Copeland's comment about valve seat grinding stones.

[@brianlittle3452]

I ran across a KZbin Video that showed how Nakona baseball gloves are made. In one of the steps, the process uses cosmoline. I immediately thought of Squatch253 with his love of cosmoline. The video can be found on KZbin by searching for: Bloomberg - The Last Baseball-Glove Maker in America.

[@kevinoscarson2941]

Excellent job, may I donate a few cans of Cat yellow to paint that nicely rebuilt motor in the background? I will disguise them as Ford Red as there might be someone upset if they see them....

[@ShnitzlHaus]

hey you have the valve grinder and you didnt even throw a nice back cut on the valve after you established seat width. Ive never met an engine that didnt like a back cut ;)

[@jacquesblaque7728]

First instance I've ever seen of cutting oil applied to valve heads. BTDT quite a bit in days past. Not saying right/wrong, just saying.

[@daviddobson8933]

Every one that I have done I did use valve seals on

[@Drottninggatan2017]

If there are no seals on an engine it is risky to put in any. I did that mistake on a Standard Motors 23C, where I put seals on the intake valves. But one of them did stick in the guide. So the seals had to come out again.

[@daviddobson8933]

@@Drottninggatan2017 I not recall wat the seals that I used were but the Ist one was my old M an that was almost 40 yrs ago and she is still running strong lol.I hope my son keeps the old girl when Iam gone.

[@OC3OliverFan]

I’d like the video I have a question my question is we do not have those tools would they do that at the machine shop

[@paulcopeland9035]

Yes

[@andrewklahold2880]

What your not going to lap them??? Why are you not lapping them??

[@paulcopeland9035]

Both the valves and seats are machine ground! Lapping is used when you don't have access to this precision equipment.

[@wilmamcdermott3065]

The 30 sets ur valve higth

[@wilmamcdermott3065]

30 and 45 causes turbulence

[@LyleBrand]

get in a hurry and you mess up.

[@iansyme3535]

Am I the only one here who thinks the explanations of what was being done was not well enough explained? I figured out the gist of it but not as good an explanation as junior would have given. For instance, how many other engine types have a three angle face on the valve seat - and the tool to grind the valve seats down seemed to have it's own adjustable post to slide down on to the seat. Watched many an engine assembly video and usually valve seats are ground to mate the valve on as big an area as possible using grinding paste. Just saying!

[@paulcopeland9035]

Nope, you are wrong.

[@jamesanderton344]

Ian Syme I’ve tried it both ways and found the sealing was worse on the full width seat, especially exhausts. With a 3 angle cut, you can move the contact area up and out of the direct heat of the combustion chamber and still relieve the valve with the back cut which really helps breathing, like a high lift cam.

[@iansyme3535]

@@squatch253 Thanks for sending the link. I watched it and now understand fully what is going on! Just seems a little contradictory to what one would normally assume. When I was grinding in valves by hand 55yrs ago on my petrol engine Ford I was happy to get a full contact over the entire face of the valve, or is it because you should be doing it differently on Diesel engines? Thanks from Covid Locked -Down Scotland.