Fast Prayers, Fittest Morality, and How Jesus fails! The Atheist Experience 27.42

[@TheAtheistExperience]

00:00 Intro 04:45 Ben-UT | Miracles Happen After Praying And Fasting 24:18 Levi-(CA) | If We Are Animals, Where Is Morality? 1:03:17 Rick-(CA) | Jesus Is Not A Failed Apocalyptic Preacher 1:27:09 Mike-(CA) | Categorical Genders And Human Classification 2:04:12 James-CA | God Does Not Intervene Because He Is Patient

[@ChallengeYourBeliefs]

Really? Four theists from Canada? What the he// is going ON over there? Is Jon from Canada doing some human experiments???

[@t800fantasm2]

@@ChallengeYourBeliefs Well, I'm in Canada... I keep wondering where these trolls come from because most of the people I encounter don't give a rat's ass about religion... In fact, there are several churches near me that seem to have closed up shop...

[@ChallengeYourBeliefs]

@@t800fantasm2 Oops. I guess the last caller is from California and not Canada. So "only" three theists in a row. 🙄 But are you saying that you've not seen Jon walking around? Canada's pretty small... right?

[@t800fantasm2]

@@ChallengeYourBeliefs "Canada's pretty small" Well, in a manner of speaking it is... Much of the country is wilderness and or poorly served by internet... unless you want to pay through the nose for it... So that limits the likely hood to one of several cities... Now to be honest, I'd bet that the callers are from the province Alberta as that seems to be going very conservative, but I could be wrong... \ That being said, they could spot me before I could spot them as that really is my picture beside my posts... I don't know what the trolls look like...

[@cleanapanna3537]

​@@t800fantasm2based on population - probably Ontario. Based on calls - Alberta

[@xmillion1704]

My head exploded when I heard, "But god's going to give those babies (e.g. infants dying of leukemia) eternal life in the new world." (as if in consolation for their innocent painful suffering and the horrible anguish of their parents). What a vacuous and monstrously evil justification for a bankrupt and contradictory belief system.

[@BaronVonQuiply]

Not to mention, imagine how that would have to play out: _"I lived 97 years and had a life packed to the brim, it was great! How'd your run go?"_ *'I was an ectopic pregnancy😐'*

[@brigittea5110]

I hate it when a baby dies and people say stuff like : God loved them so much , he wants them to be with him in heaven. I feel like saying : He could have just keep them with him . Why create a baby , have it go through birth , let it suffer in pain a few month and than take it back into heaven. That doesn't sound like a loving god, more like a psychopath who enjoys watching people suffer.

[@ajclements4627]

@@brigittea5110 A nun told my mother exactly that when my sister died three days after she was born.

[@landsgevaer]

@@brigittea5110 Yeah, they must also be very sympathetic towards stalking. Those stalkers love their victim sooo much...

[@britaom3299]

This is something I have been thinking about more and more lately: this whole idea of "personhood" that Christians who say this drivel must uphold. WHAT is it, exactly, that they think "goes to heaven"? Their ego, with its thoughts, memories, experiences from the life lived here? That IS the answer I get when I ask. So...somehow an ego with memories, thoughts, experiences, 100% of which were created by a functioning cerebral cortex and central nervous system, is going to continue on in some immaterial, heavenly realm. But this would be completely absurd, most ESPECIALLY when it is applied to infants. Infants have no personhood; they have no memories, experiences, thoughts. So how exactly would they go to heaven? What would they be doing up there? Goo goo....gaa gaa....I just filled my diaper again??

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

Here's a story just for James - CA One day a church goer approaches his pastor and says to him, “Pastor I’m having doubts about God. I just can’t seem to feel his presence. What should I do?” The pastor responds saying, “ I understand. Truly, I do. We all go through seasons of doubt and uncertainty. What I usually do is try to imitate our Lord as Paul said in Ephesians ‘Be imitators of God’. Imitating God may help connect to Him.” The man responds saying, “Alright, thanks I’ll try it.” A month passes and the man returns to his pastor, “I did it, I did what I was most certain God does in fact do.” The pastor then asks, “Do you feel closer to God?” The man’s shoulders sag and he shakily says, “No. In fact I have more doubts than before. I don’t think God cares about us at all. Worse still, I really and truly hate myself now!” The pastor is taken aback, and quickly asks, “What did you do that you were certain God does?” The man looks his pastor in the eyes and says, “I wanted to do something that I was certain God does. I thought for weeks but I just don’t know what’s actually true in God’s word. Then one day it was late at night and I was out walking trying to get my mind to come up with something anything. I heard some kind of altercation down an alley and so I investigated. I found a woman being raped by man who overpowered her. I thought to myself what would God do? The answer came immediately and with certainty, and so I just stood there and watched it happen, doing nothing.”

[@queezle4277]

Why are you sharing a writing from James- CA's favorite genre of erotica?

[@Pehrgryn]

I love your story, but it's even worse, isn't it? They went to the alley, saw the person corner the woman, she screams for help. Then the man says, "I am going to rape you now." Then the person in the story watches it all, knowing beforehand what is about to happen.

[@mikerodgers7620]

His will power is weak like yours is.

[@RichardRoy2]

@@mikerodgers7620 "His will power is weak like yours is." Like God's is.

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

@@mikerodgers7620 My will power is stronger than yours, bro. I'm also a lot less of a coward than you are.

[@MacLaw3084]

“In my church we do this thing called fasting.” These people really think atheists have no idea about religion and religious customs. 😂

[@t800fantasm2]

“In my church we do this thing called fasting." Meanwhile many women will fast to lose weight so they look good.... lol

[@MacLaw3084]

@@t800fantasm2 I mean, what else is it good for? 🙃

[@ChallengeYourBeliefs]

@@MacLaw3084 Absolutely (nothin'). Say it again.

[@OokEekTheLibraian6708]

It would have been nice if the hoists asked Ben what version of bible god he believes in. That would mean that Ben would not have been able to just read the script someone gave him.

[@Spiritof_76]

@@OokEekTheLibraian6708 He's in Utah, so odds are he is...

[@jabberwocky3598]

I died at Forrest screeching "Baby cancer is the way I want to do it!"

[@sonja4164]

😂

[@JPPan-hq6le]

Ben's standard for a miracle is on par with "God helped me find my car keys "

[@mitchellconner6928]

It also implies God intervened in someone else's free will, making them go to church, just because Been asked him to.

[@missinterpretation4984]

I just can’t w those ppl. He found your car keys but didn’t stop my cousins stepfather from SA-ing her as a child even though she prayed?!? Sounds swell.

[@nsf001-3]

@@missinterpretation4984 God refusing to answer my begs to stop the horrific abuse and bullying I experienced in my childhood and adolescence, was one of the many reasons I realized religion was all BS. Either that or this "God" is evil. Either way I wouldn't worship that. The idea that I'm beging subjected to all that to 'test my faith" is a total sickness and just more proof for how most humans are evil considering how many people will agree with that type of oppressive worldview and the billions more who react with indifference

[@riastradh]

He’s very obviously a child so I can only hope he thinks about it more as he matures

[@omarvasquez6851]

@@nsf001-3I experienced that same bullying for years as a kid for years and this kind and loving gawd was never there to save me, maybe he didn’t help me because I was poor.

[@bfidel]

Here's a sweet math equation. Jmike+Forest=dream team.

[@deanlowdon8381]

Agreed!

[@Raven.flight]

Forrest and JMike were perfectly suited to each other in hosting this episode. It never felt like one was trying to talk over the other. They both complimented the other and had “their moment”. It was such a good episode.

[@erinelizabethmsw5137]

They’re such good hosts!

[@whispersmith]

Complemented * 😊

[@tms012493]

I love how Ben is like "if I could choose between dirt biking and church I'd choose dirt biking" while not choosing dirt biking despite having "free will"

[@theTYTAN3]

Parents probably don't give him much in the way of options.

[@nsf001-3]

@@theTYTAN3 That makes it even worse

[@MagiRemmie]

@@theTYTAN3 Which means he didn't have free will.

[@MagiRemmie]

@@Imperial-Socialist Says who?

[@sloporion]

​@@MagiRemmieI mean, he has free will. He just chooses to do what will not get him onto trouble. Choices have consequences. Free will stops existing when there's a "divine will/plan".

[@mr.perfectcell1887]

The real definition of the soul: Aretha Franklin.

[@brucebaker810]

R.I.P. . E.t.c.

[@the_eaglefan]

Winner

[@glasgowgallus247]

You bet your arse she was...👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿❤️🤣

[@dlon4539]

World class comment

[@glasgowgallus247]

@@dlon4539 Oh aye, it definitely is 👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@alienskinmusic]

The final caller, James, was possibly the most abhorrent individual I've heard on the show, his god beliefs are repulsive to the point of being sickening to listen to. Both JMike and Forrest were visibly appalled and frustrated. Forrest gave a brilliant, stirring summation at the end, very proud of you Forrest!

[@casparuskruger4807]

And the indoctrination is so ingrained in these types, no counter explanation or argument they hear will EVER alter their steadfastly-held position. James Randi affectionately referred to such types as "unsinkable rubber ducks"

[@mikerodgers7620]

I'm pretty sure you're heathen beliefs are equally repulsive to the point of being sickening to listen to which is why he called in. There is nothing brilliant about being a classless materialist.

[@scottjohnson7248]

@@mikerodgers7620 BS

[@petermeichan3160]

did he sound like a creepy, serial killer or is it me ?

[@the_eaglefan]

James needs help.

[@zacharylehocki]

Forrest and Jmike are both so clear spoken and well spoken and articulate at the same time, its so much fun to watch them take these callers, Oh well done!

[@coachfrankie1112]

Broooooo, "you deserve that cancer because someone thousands of years ago ate a F'n apple." Thank you for saying that Forrest. Gave me chills and the light bulb came on in my brain. 🙌

[@jameslarimer9211]

It's almost impressive, that James was able to piss off both JMike AND Forrest. This guy could make Ghandi try to curb stomp him.

[@Aryan-qv5qk]

@@jameslarimer9211 I mean that’d be pretty easy, just be his wife

[@brucebaker810]

Or, hosts' point, you got the cancer because emotionally needy Sky Wizard chose the (ahem) branch where eve ate the fruit. His fault.

[@rikorobinson]

That first kid was regurgitating weak talking points jammed into his brain and it really bummed me out. I wish critical thinking was taught k-12 so that we could counteract the damage these parents, who were most likely also victims of this when they were kids, are doing to their children and society. This poor kid deserves to have people teaching him HOW to think, rather than what to spit out like some kind of Manchurian Candidate. Childhood indoctrination of this kind sickens me. I'm so glad he got to speak to Jmike and Forrest, and I hope he finds his way out of that insanity into which he was so unfortunate to be born...

[@Pensnmusic]

The obsession of religious parents with indoctrination their kids into believing in a magical authority figure is destroying the world, tbh Religious belief is antithetical to truth, and it tries to encourage the worst impulses humans have, tries to make them the only way a brain can function. It's like... forced brain damage almost. You force these neural pathways to form in such a way as to prevent critical thinking and encourage magical thinking.

[@canadianhappyinitalytruest6556]

I agree totally with your comment… I was raised in a fundamentalist church, but to parents who worked as teachers in the public school system. Yes, I was indoctrinated but public school and university and then finally this show helped me really unravel that disaster. Now a Happy atheist and big promoter of critical thinking, which we practice all the time with our kids, even sometimes asking questions about assumptions we have made during narratives of books and movies. (Harry Potter is great for that!)

[@consent2breedingu]

Yah if you had to decide which religion to join when you’re 18 everyone would be an atheist. They don’t even give you a choice.. they force you to be baptised, confirmed at 10 and force you to go to catholic school. So yah… it’s a lot of brainwashing and conditioning. They bash you into submission to follow their homophobic, misogynistic agenda as though that’s the only way to live is to be a slave to some fat man.

[@consent2breedingu]

Hating someone cause you’re weak is stupid. Their so hypocritical… they pro life but won’t hesitate to go to war or be violent. Their so aggressive.. im so sick and tired of violence. It’s not a skill to be violent. That person your killing used to be a baby.. it’s the same person.

[@Pensnmusic]

​@@canadianhappyinitalytruest6556I'm glad you made it to the other side.

[@top_gallant]

my high school buddy had two really old dogs. One had lost a lot of its teeth. If you gave both dogs a dog biscuit the dog with teeth would chew up a biscuit and drop it for the toothless dog so he could easily eat it. That is morality.

[@angelamaryquitecontrary4609]

My sister and I found a seagull in the garden. It had become tangled up in plastic. With no great hope of success, my sister wrapped it in a towel and I attacked the plastic with some scissors. It worked! We placed the bird on the ground (he/she was a big bugger, too) and it STAYED FOR THIRTY SECONDS, DOING A DANCE FOR US!!! It went backwards, forwards, it bowed and flapped then repeated the whole pattern. It was thanking us. It was one of the best things I ever witnessed.

[@donjuan123]

I think the word is Empathy..

[@sirilay]

Theistic views like James' are flawless illustrations why every secular humanist needs to vote and accept jury duty, every chance they get. That expletive is a monster.

[@nsf001-3]

Postivist Legal systems are a crime. They have no right to exist in a just world

[@johnd.shultz7423]

Juries have aquitted psychopaths to allow themselves free entry to even more societal mayhem...

[@ChallengeYourBeliefs]

If James-CA ever had kids, he would have made sure that all the poison he had at home was all freely accessible with open caps. His idea of "childproofing" was to just tell the baby that it should not drink any of the poison. Then he made sure that he got the worst sociopath possible to babysit the child. And afterwards, all the blame was on the baby for drinking the poison. He can't be held to blame for ANYTHING that happens.🙄

[@TheSnoeedog]

Jeff Foxworthy does a great bit (Comic Relief #7) about having spent 1200 dollars on childproofing their home. "....when I was a child, my parents kept a 900lb television set on top of a folding tv tray...my daddy's philosophy was, 'let'm pull it down on hisself a couple'a times...he'll learn!'"

[@ChallengeYourBeliefs]

@@TheSnoeedog His god might be a redneck?

[@Heathen.Deity.]

Religion has made this fool a complete monster. A babbling, vile, oblivious monster.

[@dieseljester]

@@TheSnoeedog Except in the Eden Myth, Yahweh basically puts a loaded and chambered gun on the coffee table with a couple of toddlers and then leaves the house. When they inevitably play with said gun and set it off, Yahweh comes back and gets mad at them because he's a bad parent.

[@tacitblack4732]

So there was a Christian caller who believes that we are responsible for doing wrong because we have libertarian free will, and another Christian caller who thinks we are responsible for doing wrong despite having no free will? Christianity seems to be the belief that you can add two and two and come up with whatever answer you want so long as it results in God being blameless for anything.

[@kenhammscousin4716]

So Ben thinks that he prayed and made God interfere with a person's free will by forcing them to go to church, and Ben thinks that is a miracle that they instigated. Good grief.

[@olabandola9577]

Ben is a prankcaller.

[@OokEekTheLibraian6708]

The question the hoists should have asked Ben was why did his parents or whoever gave the kid the script to read not call the show?

[@landsgevaer]

Ben is also a kid that wonders whether math is invented or discovered. Give him some leeway (and better guidance)...

[@katiebarber407]

also interesting how free they are to admit that theyd rather to pretty much anything other than go to church. even christians dontt like being christian

[@cloudshad0ws]

I feel bad for the kid. Assuming it's a real call.

[@bcwest619]

Forrest going off about Gandalf being delayed but never late is the greatest thing I've ever seen. 🤣🤣

[@petermeichan3160]

he was late to meeting Frodo at Bree !

[@mikeymoughtin]

I think i corrected him about that idk

[@unit0033]

yup that caller was such a tool

[@sparkymatthews35]

Thoughts and prayers are the air guitar of actually doing something.

[@xmillion1704]

Hey now! What did air guitarists ever do in order to deserve being impugned like that?

[@sparkymatthews35]

@@xmillion1704 Not to disrespect air guitarists

[@xmillion1704]

@@sparkymatthews35 Lol A doff of my cap for your clever analogy.

[@undrwatropium3724]

"Prayers are like masturbation, it only feels good to the one doing it while those they are thinking of recive nothing" -some guy with wisdom

[@jonclark8252]

@@sparkymatthews35 "Thoughts and prayers are the air guitar of actually doing something." HOLY $#!T I LOVE THAT!!! I'm telling that to EVERYONE :) :)

[@stormburn1]

JMike's bit about free will around ~50:00 was great and something I've never heard before.

[@Fluffykeith]

I hate this “god doesn’t stop bad things happening because of free will”, because it just posits a scenario where a supposedly Good God places more value on the free will of the person doing the harm than the free will of the person they’re harming.

[@nsf001-3]

God could just give people free will where they freely choose to never do bad things. So yet more proof god is evil. All this assumes free will exists in the first place of course

[@jaclo3112]

It's a full blown lie too as the bible shows god constantly killing people to prevent them from doing bad things. God even drowned every toddler in the world so that they couldn't exercise their free will and do the bad things he knew they were going to do. Then there's the issue of bad things happening that are natural disasters. Millions have been killed horrific deaths because of natural disasters. Yet their god refuses to protect and save people from these even though no one's free will world be violated if he did.

[@denisebutler5938]

That’s where mental gymnastics comes in! Shame on you for using your “carnal” mind to critically think🤔 lol

[@Ironic_daemonic]

The James call was extremely triggering. Reminded me of when my nephew died in birth and my mom said "well, at least we can take comfort that when he opened his eyes the first thing he saw is the lord" fuck any god that would take babies away from their loving families.

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

Not forgetting that for centuries the Catholic church decreed that babies who died before being christened never got into heaven.

[@mactallica9293]

As a parent that lost a child. Hearing he's with God or everything happens for a reason and only God knows why. Extremely triggering

[@elecbass100]

Unbelievable how Ben just completely sidestepped the first full explanation by Forrest to ask another question. Sad to see that behavior so young, like he wasn’t even listening.

[@joshsheridan9511]

Ben will make a good apologist when he grows up. He's already learned to wait for his turn to speak.

[@canadianhappyinitalytruest6556]

Ben seemed like he was just a kid… I am now a very satisfied atheist but back when I was a teenager I was dogmatic and indoctrinated so hopefully Ben still has a chance at critical reasoning… if people continue to speak honestly and also respectfully to him can come around, I hope!!

[@paulrichards6894]

think ben could get out of religion

[@OokEekTheLibraian6708]

Ben is just a child who was reading a script that someone gave him.

[@landsgevaer]

Ben did continue to a different question indeed, I noted that too. But he didn't sidestep it like other apologists do, was my impression (and that of the hosts, otherwise they would have insisted, I bet). Ben was given some arguments and he accepted those to ponder over further. You can hardly blame him for having integrated those in an instant. So, come on, he is an early teen. He had interesting questions about math that I suspect most adults have never wondered about ever. He will get there.

[@duskyrose9243]

James was a great example of why the Christian religion is evil. The way he could just brush off other people's suffering and pain shows how shallow and callous that kind of world view is. Maybe one day James will see how really horrible his god is, and quit trying to make excuses for, and stop supporting the idea of, such a nasty, selfish god. Or, better yet, realize that he's worshiping a version of god created from the twisted and immature minds of men, and that there is no reason to believe that it exists at all.

[@philw6056]

I wonder what James would think if god would decide that tomorrow everyone becomes paraplegic, but also offers to heal everyone, if they follow, love and subjugate to him. But James seems to believe that waiting til somebody does something wrong and punishing him afterwards is a better educational method than intervening before something happens that needs to be punished.

[@onionbelly_]

Patience is an odd word to ascribe to a being that has the power to stop a child from starving to death but instead chooses to simply watch the child suffer in front of their eyes.

[@Bob-of-Zoid]

Don't forget that he's very busy helping privileged people find their car keys, get the job they really want, make sure they get the preferred presents for their birthday and christmas, making their car start, being their avenger... Just where can he find the time to take care of starving children, stop rapists and what not? Geez, give the man a break!

[@Ghalaghor_McAllistor]

But, but...free will, mysterious ways and stuff!

[@katarinatibai8396]

​@@Bob-of-Zoid😂😂😅 You forgot to type that he also helps the privileged people to find the right parking spot.

[@Bob-of-Zoid]

@@katarinatibai8396 Yeah, and it's the handicapped parking, and they are not handicapped! Well not physically at least.

[@SadSatan01]

Wow!! That last caller!!! WFT?! Forrest and jmike rocked it!! Thank you guys for everything!🤘🤘

[@borthwrenblanston6632]

Forrest has ZERO ANSWERS. The asinine, lost & clueless cult of atheism is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS and yet it's lost & clueless NO ANSWER followers cling desperately to that garbage.

[@Quiroze1]

It’s so scary to think James would witness someone being rape and just watch and do nothing. And then wish that the rapist repents and goes to heaven. That’s Christianity for you.

[@scottjohnson7248]

You're assuming he'd do nothing. He'd probably spank it.

[@utes5532]

I like how Ben is clearly going through a script. He'll start a premise, ask the hosts a question, let them answer but completely ignores their answer and just continues with the premise. This is what happens when someone isn't taught how to actually think about what they believe. He's saying something he thinks is objectively true but doesn't know how to engage someone who has a reason to disagree

[@nsf001-3]

Critical thinking and religion don't mix. That's why they gotta get you when you're young; too young to have criticial thinking skills. Then as the brain maturates, those beliefs form a base level in your neural makeup which is almost impossible to shake for any but the most plastic brains-It becomes not only immune to the criticial thinking that _does_ develop later, but also appeals to the basal ganglia ("emotional brain") which further reinforces those beliefs. And that's still before the habituated thought and motor patterns that persist even if you do shake the belief

[@heyidaroo]

I will say though, I’m glad he called because Forrest & JMike met Ben where he was at for his age, and simultaneously did not speak to him like he was stupid. Hopefully he starts to ask questions about his religion, and I hope he calls back

[@riseofdarkleela]

@@nsf001-3i’m starting to be a little bit proud of myself for plastic-ing my brain enough to give up alcohol and religion - two of our main lovely societal poisons I have stopped ingesting. And in my 50s too!

[@angelamaryquitecontrary4609]

​@@riseofdarkleelaGood for you! I'm really pleased for you. Also, regarding Ben, I imagine he is a 'home schooled' adolescent in a strict LDS home, in a similarly strict small LDS town. I've had a whole career as a teacher for students aged 2 to 18. No establishment has been perfect, but I would back them all against home schooling, especially if chosen for religious purposes.

[@riseofdarkleela]

@@angelamaryquitecontrary4609 even when I held my naturalness bias woo beliefs and wanted to homeschool my kids, I quickly found that I was not really qualified by temperament to teach lol - so lucky for them!!

[@GmanAtheistNell]

​Great show. Love Forrest and Jmike. Goodnight all from the UK. 1.19 AM.

[@voicemaestro]

Welp, so today we didn't have to hear Amanuel... but we get James??? James sounded more sophisticated, but sheesh! What a tool! Good job dealing with him, JMike and Forrest.

[@charlesatty]

My grandson has to go time from time to children hospital for his asthma. Everytime i go there snd see sick children i think of people like james. Forrest anger is a 1 out 10 compared to my disgust for James

[@ajclements4627]

As someone who spent a great deal of time from birth to adulthood in hospitals with asthma and various other illnesses, people like James are definitely disgusting.

[@GeeThevenin]

Levi from Canada- where did the ancient Chinese, the ancient Greeks, Egyptians, carthaginians, Hindu cultures get their morality? Tlingit? Navajo? Iroquois?

[@RidetheGeoffening]

……..not to mention aboriginal Australians , who to date , have inhabited this continent for near enough to 70,000 years. They have deep and complexed moral and ethical systems that have certainly stood the test of time.

[@OokEekTheLibraian6708]

@@RidetheGeoffening Too bloody right and they are the oldest continuing living culture. Aussie is the best "feck you" to all of the Biblical literalist & Young Earth Creationist, not only it's people, it's geology, fauna & flora.

[@Heathen.Deity.]

Levi’s call demonstrated what so many dishonest theists callers worry about when calling in and then dodging and deflecting. When they give a genuine honest answers, a logic bludgeoning often follows.

[@MrCanis4]

And what about the 'First Nation People' of Canada themselves? Ask what their world was like before these 'so pious' white people came up with their storybook.

[@nsf001-3]

A "good Christian" would say they were immoral because they didn't believe in God

[@djb5320]

James is nuts

[@Anastaecia]

Anytime a caller mentions "survival of the fittest," I think the hosts should first explain that fittest is not fitness. The fit is how well the species fits into the current environment, NOT how big or tough a species is.

[@xmillion1704]

"Fitness" in the context of evolution, is simply an assessment of one's ability to thrive in one's environment in order to mate successfully, and all that entails.

[@shawn092182]

And don't forget to explain that scientific laws/theories are descriptive, not prescriptive. So, "survival of the fittest" in regards to the Theory of Evolution, isn't telling us that we have to make the human species the fittest.

[@xmillion1704]

​@@shawn092182 Shit!!! After that last embarrassing debacle, now I'm nervous and second-guessing myself whenever you leave a comment following mine. (Damn! See? I almost did it again. By "following" I did not mean to imply "replying to". I meant it only as the discrete expression of the concept of chronology, such that one event may happen later in time with respect to another without necessarily suggesting any correlative relationship. I pray this wasn't confusing. (My colloquial use of the term "pray" here was definitely uncalled for and if it made you wince, well that's as it should be and I should probably be reported, and that's 100% on me, since the more appropriate term would be "hope", as in, "I really hope Jesus helps the Dodgers to avoid being swept in the first fucking round of the goddamned play-offs next year!".))

[@landsgevaer]

Survival of the fittest is a bit of a tautology: the fittest *are* the ones that survive, and have progeny that survives. By definition those are the fittest.

[@exceptionallyaverage3075]

It's more like survival of the good enough.

[@FlyInTheLotion]

James, have you ever talked to your therapist about sociopathy? I need a shower after your call.

[@blackhelm5773]

James is probably one of the most immoral disgusting callers in a long time.

[@thepineapplegal9099]

Yeah, he literally made me feel physically ill

[@MrCanis4]

Thanks for the warning. I haven't gotten that far in the program yet.

[@Heathen.Deity.]

And because his mind has been utterly poisoned and degraded by religion, he hasn’t a clue that he is.

[@MrCanis4]

“god doesn't intervene”. Then why worship?

[@blackhelm5773]

@@MrCanis4 because god loves his holy BJs from us tiny mortals.

[@gerrye114]

Levi, morality comes from being a social species. 1 person is a soft, squishy snack. 10 people can hunt anything on the planet. 100 people can create enough surplus to have leisure time. If evil is a necessary part of free will, then is their evil in heaven or no free will?

[@borthwrenblanston6632]

No, you're just another lost & clueless shallow thinker. You don't present the cause of "social species." Morality can't be produced by any atheist cause (e.g. nothing, star dust, moist rocks, mud puddles, hot rocks, moon dirt, warm ponds, gravity, oceans, primordial soup, multiverse, big bang, abiogenesis, mistakes (mutations) gaining in complexity/new information, star formation, evolution). Try to learn.

[@50_foot_punch99]

​@@borthwrenblanston6632 false. Morality is a social construct which is why it varies based on location.

[@MrCanis4]

More than 80% of the current world population and 98% of humanity have never had or do not believe in his god. Somehow they manage to ignore this completely.

[@50_foot_punch99]

@@MrCanis4 that's also incredibly funny to think about.

[@opulentpieyoga9079]

@@50_foot_punch99There are also objective parts to morality. Is it moral to beat a woman if you’re in a country where it is legal?

[@tracierendell4422]

I love what you guys do, I love that you approach with all the respect thar you can muster as you offer very simple logic. It's sad that to this day archaic lies are still believed and defended, against all logic. I hope you manage to change the views of a few. What seemed very simple to me, to question when I was old enough to take a look around seems impossible for some to achieve. It's absolutely bewildering.

[@zecawolf]

I watch the AXP since about 2010. I remember thinking that would be very hard to replace some of those great hosts, and some years ago I thought I was right back then. But the team we have nowadays is brilliant. These two are among my favourites.

[@timbohp]

I seriously believe this is one of the top 10 ACA shows of all time. Great job guys!

[@tekbarrier]

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if James blames CSA victims for their abuse

[@nsf001smashthestate]

This one has some of the more painful calls in recent memory

[@JonathanChaotic]

I think this was my favorite episode. The finale really called out most the arguments I hear in my real life and it was satisfying to hear Forrest and J give every response I've wanted to. Amazing.

[@AlanTenore]

Hot damn! What an amazing show! Forrest and JMike together made a great combo of different styles and approaches, and the finale was epic, explosive, and dare I say magical. James had the view of one sick bastard. You guys gave him plenty of rope, and hang himself he did. Can't wait to have another Forrest and JMike episode!

[@FreeYasharalah]

Ben's "Have you ever been to church before" had me dying, almost all of us have sir. 🤣🤣🤣

[@Idontreallyknowwhyi]

That conversation with James at the end was phenomenal. I felt like it was guided perfectly and every fallacy was laid out and staring James right in the face afterwards. If there is a chance that James will ever have a change of heart, this conversation will be a large piece of that.

[@feffiescottage]

Religion does not own the patent on morality. In fact the various holy books are the *last* sources one should seek for moral guidance.

[@PlushyMermaid]

The real definition of the soul is: where we as humans get an appreciation of good music and good food from.

[@SuperTimtation]

Soul- The amazing feeling in your heart when you truly feel the groove of James Brown songs.

[@embryophytelove]

Damn good show. That last call was the icing on the cake.

[@chrisphinney8475]

Love you guys. Wish i knew you were a thing when i was in Texas years ago

[@bobvanderwest9358]

One of the most disturbing things about what James expressed was his servile, masochistic mentality, which not only reveals the horrifying damage that his religious beliefs have inflicted upon his well-being, but more critically reveals that he and those who adhere to this form of slavish sadomasochism deeply desire to impose this monstrous psychological damage onto society as a whole. This is truly one of the great ills in the world.

[@popi590]

This was very good. Very well done Jmike and Forest. Many thanks to the crew as well

[@tinaalicia]

OMG James saying that about a paraplegic was appalling. UGH!

[@Mr_Rouge]

If french fries came from potatoes... How is there still tater tots ? 🤔

[@nsf001-3]

Deus vult!

[@robhaskins]

This is a good pairing! I always love what JMike has to say, and Forrest's sunny personality and knowledge is always fun.

[@AbnormalWrench]

Dirt biking is way more fun than church.

[@jenericG]

real

[@PaulBrown-uj5le]

Then fuk church 😊

[@50_foot_punch99]

The only christ is steezus

[@xmillion1704]

Do you pray to two-stroke jeezuz?

[@katiebarber407]

pretty much anything is way more fun than church, to be honest

[@shodan6401]

EPIC F'KING SHOW! Starting with JMike's spectacular logical takedown of god: 50:00 And THEN, both JMike and Forest BURY the rebuttal: 2:04:20

[@tabithadente7139]

James, if God created Adam and Eve perfect, then how is it possible that they would've ever been lured into evil??

[@pelgrim8640]

Can some christian please inform me how intervening to prevent a rape or murder is bad because we can't interfere with the free will of the rapist /murderer? In what way is that criminal's free will more important than the free will of the victim?

[@ChallengeYourBeliefs]

Right. How would a god that intervenes AFTER some garbage makes the CHOICE to rape or murder count as somehow "interfering" with free will?

[@Freewheel_Burning]

Forrest was on fire! well done JMike and Forrest! good show.

[@neycrogav99]

Levi, who is a Christian, says we have free will when it comes to morality. James, who is a Christian, says we do not have free will when it comes to morality. Might be a problem here...

[@hank_says_things]

If God was capable of anything that was logically possible he wouldn't have created a situation where he needed James to make tired, tortured, tedious excuses for him. Worst preacher ever.

[@EchoS1x]

Forrest, I could listen to you all day. I learn so much.

[@oliverthompson9922]

Wow, James. How broken can a persons mind be? Not sure I've ever seen JMIke and Forrest so angry.😬

[@scottjohnson7248]

Forrest yes, a few times, but JMike is usually unflappable. James was a special kind of evil apologist.

[@thebirdman7333]

“You’re comparing a Chevy to an orange “ is the funniest thing I’ve heard in a while lmao 😂😂

[@joshsheridan9511]

James you can avoid justice in the Christian faith, by just accepting Jesus. There is bugger all to do with justice or morality in the Christian system

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

Like every other bible babbler, they believe that Jeffrey Dahmer being in heaven is "justice" and every atheist in hell is "mercy". Go figure.

[@gayesthusky2177]

Then again, their god has the same personality as Jeff and Ted Bundy.

[@t800fantasm2]

Hahahaha They picked my "God sends Natural disasters" comment for number one! That brightened my day.... "3:44"

[@xmillion1704]

Cool shit! I'm always so stupidly proud on the few occasions that they've chosen my submissions.

[@ChallengeYourBeliefs]

I blame you for me not getting picked. I'm CERTAIN that they were going to use mine until they saw yours. 😭😭

[@xmillion1704]

@@ChallengeYourBeliefs Haha Well, MY conceit has me totally convinced that they don't select mine EVERY week simply to avoid the appearance they're playing favorites. (Honestly though, this audience is so clever and imaginative. I'm still chuckling over the recent submission that god flooded the world for the insurance money.)

[@Wiggimus]

@@ChallengeYourBeliefs There was one about a month ago where I swore that mine was going to get chosen lol

[@coachfrankie1112]

Mike from Canada, great call. Brought out the best in the hosts. JMike and Forrest nailed it again.

[@mikeymoughtin]

Thank you!

[@Leith_Crowther]

It’s a rare treat when kids call into the show. I think so, anyway, because they’re basically always very honest and listening actively. Levi: Survival of the fittest is an observation, not an imperative. “God doesn’t use mind control to make you give him your money because that would take away your free will. So he uses a gun instead.”

[@BoraBora-87]

😂😂😂2:29 Jmike wanted to put hands on the caller! He got insanely and understandably so frustrated and tired of dude! My absolute favorite part!😂😂❤ Keep it up Jmike and Forrest!

[@davidtetard5781]

Forrest, well said about James's performance.

[@alexmenke7131]

Forrest for the win. The last speech against James was beautiful

[@panthervoodoo]

“It DOESNT fuckin matter!” Forrest, your humor is infectious brother!❤❤❤

[@mattg6390]

If you’re reading this…hello. I hope you had a great weekend and you have an even better week. That is all

[@jonclark8252]

And the same to you :)

[@mattg6390]

Thank you kindly

[@t800fantasm2]

You too.... Have the best week you can...

[@mattg6390]

Thanks! I’ll try

[@nsf001-3]

My life is misery and can't improve, but I appreciate the gesture

[@Sarah-xs7rg]

I can't express how loud I cheered for Forrest and J Mike with that last caller, GO SPICY FORREST!! 🎉🎉🎉

[@r1pster05]

Doesn't Ben's miracle making his friend go to church violate all sorts of free will?

[@paulrichards6894]

at least ben did listen to forest

[@paulrichards6894]

@@marcosolo6491 lets hope its not too late.....hope he listened back to his call

[@nsf001-3]

@@marcosolo6491 That's how most people converse. It may or may not be written down

[@laurenkadlec659]

Never watched jmike before, and he’s fantastic! He explains things so clearly, while not being condescending. Great show

[@antimatter2380]

Definition of soul: 1 part funk, 1 part groovy bass line, and 2 parts swing. Add a pinch of horns if you want it to be a good soul.

[@smochygrice465]

This I can tell will be an awesome episode to catch up on, having both Forrest and Jmike on! ❤❤❤❤❤ Peace Love Empathy From Australia 🇦🇺👍🤠

[@dabadore.]

The definition of a soul is the wind giving you goosebumps.

[@landsgevaer]

The wind giving you goosebumps exists and is very demonstrable. How is that a valid or even 'inspiring' analogy?

[@dabadore.]

@@landsgevaer he asked for wrong answers. Right over your head, I swear.

[@_Omega_Weapon]

Great show today guys!

[@mirandahotspring4019]

Soul, the little bit of the brain that causes involuntary hip movements when you hear African American music.

[@jackfrost3573]

My Sister passed away just over a year ago. My deiced Father had prepaid for my sisters Funeral in advance because she was sickly already. I went to the church to talk to the Deacon about having my sister placed in the Columbarium. I told him what I knew, and he agreed my sister's internment was paid in full. The next words were "Well there is a tip given to me at the internment." I replied, I am aware of the tip! He then said "I will get back to you" however I am really busy right now. 3 weeks later I call and left a voice mail. after a month I called and emailed....nothing. After 3 Months I went there!! He couldn't see me....? after 6 months of calls, emails and written notes left with his secretary he finally answered my call. Then said he NO messages from me??? and then handed my off to another person...that won't answer either??? it's been a year....now. It was paid for so....they didn't care other than the tip that I was reminded of in our call. The Deacon is a liar....

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

Well.. every business has to turn a profit somehow.

[@nsf001-3]

@@holgerlubotzki3469 and profiting from death and suffering makes a person evil!

[@jackfrost3573]

yea you are right...100% profit for them and my sister is still in an Urn in the closet.@@holgerlubotzki3469

[@utes5532]

"If you had a child, would you punish them for doing bad things" Is a vacuous argument because when I have a child I don't have perfect control over how they're going to turn out, nor do I have perfect knowledge of what they're going to do over their lifetime. The christian god, who is supposedly all-knowing and all-powerful, personally creates every person according to its will. It's like me creating a robot that walks forward and getting upset when that robot walks off a cliff I placed it in front of.

[@ChallengeYourBeliefs]

Not just that, but their god didn't "have" a child. Their god supposedly created everything and had perfect control on everything about his creation. And that was precisely JMike's argument. If this god was omnipotent and omniscient, why couldn't he have his creations freely make the right choice at all times? He built into Eve's nature to listen to the serpent. He could have "finely tuned" Eve so that she doesn't get tempted by the serpent. Why couldn't god do that? Because the Genesis story is an old just-so story to explain why life is hard for men and women and why a serpent is now legless.

[@nsf001-3]

In a moral world people would get punished for having children in the first place because existence can not be consented to. In that same way, anything a child does or experiences, throughout their entire life, is fully to blame on the people who created them. But people want to eat their cake and have it too, so you see it all the time with parents and Theists who want to abuse and torment children and then blame them for how they turn out as if they weren't responsible for the outcome. Epitome of blame shifting / victim blaming

[@cnault3244]

"If you had a child, would you punish them for doing bad things" Not for eternity.

[@johndoe020]

Absolutely awesome show guys

[@silveryfeather208]

If I ever recognize James' voice in real life, I will never ever fucking stay near them. So I, the police, decides to just watches someone raping, then just wait for the criminal to say 'sorry, and repent!' Good job cops?

[@weylin32]

I love listening to you guys. Does the heart good

[@isadunkelmond7796]

Thanks Forrest for losing it with James. you tried to stay calm, but he just deserved to be called out for all that disgusting stuff he said...

[@barrydavis6626]

I think I discovered why James of CA is a Christian when he asked, "Why do you get away with all the stuff you do?" Personally, since I'm 72 years old, I must have "lusted in my heart" millions of times and I don't believe I'm going to be punished for it.

[@Parasaurolophus476]

The true nature of souls is that they are used to patch the shoes of the gods. Hermes's winged sandals don't come cheap.

[@emchartreuse]

My dudes, that was the greatest thing ever! Thank you!

[@micahfoley9572]

Rick just ignoring Forrest completely because he didn't have an answer is just Christian vibes in a nutshell

[@troilynmckenzie2915]

This is the best version of Forrest JMike

[@ThePsychoticnut]

God knows everything we'll do AND has the ability to prevent the bad things, according to the beliefs of the caller. If I knew my child was going to rape someone and had the ability to stop them, I would definitely do that as opposed to punishing them afterwards. If god allows the bad thing be done and he has the ability to prevent it, he is evil.

[@SupremeSquiggly]

Forrest and Jmike are the only two hosts left that make AXP worth watching.

[@anuuuul]

That last caller was obviously super frustrating, but J. Mike’s and Forrest’s arguments (plus the humor and sarcasm all throughout) were some of the best I’ve seen on call-in shows like this. I enjoyed that a whole lot, and learned even more.

[@XxBiGB3ARxX]

People like James are truly terrifying. They are willing to accept and promote such evil ideals and yet think of themselves as truly rational and "good" people. These are the kinds of people that hide in plain sight much more easily than people who are more direct, loud, and proud with their hate, and yet their beliefs do just as much if not more harm.