FastenMaster PROTips: Picture Framing Stair Treads

[@vfonte]

Great tip for finishing steps - pride in craftsmanship - could not agree more. I get more compliments on my steps than the deck itself! Thanks for sharing.

[@eugeneanderson8884]

Excellent video! Pride in craftsmanship. Will use all your tips and advice to complete my stairs. Thanks for posting

[@brianbrown1955]

I did it just like the man said. It looks absolutely perfect.

[@tylerdurden5359]

Congratulations. You are the 1 builder on YT that knows how to install a composite deck board correctly. I watch these deck videos regularly and everyone gets it wrong and ALL of the decks look terrible.

[@chanksta11]

Erks my soul that he screws directly into the face of the composite though. All my screws are hidden or using some sort of fastener as well as the screw. Just a little special touch I love including cause so few people can properly secure the entire deck without screws showing

[@miketibbetts2175]

My 45's have formed a gap overtime, never thought of screwing them together like you did. Great video, good tip Thanks👍

[@jargentieri11778]

Wow Santa a fantastic looking stair tread. Very nice.

[@dougprentice1363]

Beautiful. This is not a detail I talked about with contractor. Makes a huge difference.

[@juliodavid49]

Great solution for the ends. I'm about to redo my deck with Trex and I'm glad I stumbled onto your video. Great solution and video. Thank you

[@davidkeppler37]

Fantastic! Haven't built my steps yet but I know now how I'm going to do my treads. Thanks.

[@rickgerlachjr3903]

that is a very smart way to cover the exposed deck. thanks for the tip

[@manuelelliott1479]

I'm using Veka PVC decking, hopefully this will work with that brand. Great look. Thanks!

[@artrutiri6206]

What is the length of the small cuts and degree

[@farnorth7314]

Outstanding

[@V1rowt8]

Nice work.

[@VictorFlores-et2eg]

Thank you. Very good video

[@goaniochavarria2450]

Awesome detail. Dude you da man!

[@CCT.8B]

Awesome video. Quick question... for composite, do we not need to leave space for flex and retraction/expansion due to cold/heat? Is it safe long term to have really tight seams like that?

[@brewster102]

Good question--deserves an answer

[@kevinwise982]

In this case, the two long boards move together. The small piece is so small that movement is negligible. So tight joints in this case is fine.

[@jmackinjersey1]

@@kevinwise982 Not at all, Every piece, regardless of the size will expand and contract. It all depends on where the deck is located, and how hot/cold it gets though. Here in the south, where it gets well over 100 degrees on a normal basis, and can sometimes get into the freezing point, it is never advised to place any composite material together like that. We are always using a gap. We simply go by the manufacturer's temperature charts for the gap distance.

[@fourhume]

all composite manufacturers note that 1/8" gap minimum between board edges are required. The picture frame looks great but isn't there a chance that there could be some expansion issues due to the ends of the picture frame installed snug up against the step boards??? I'm wondering if Mr Daley could comment if he has time.

[@Soul-driven]

My Trex rep says your most likely okay on stairs to get away with this because the treads aren't too long. But I see people doing this on long picture frame runs and that's a no no.

[@jakee8704]

The screw you add to the joint helps to minimize the expansion/contraction in the corner 👍👍

[@tylerdurden5359]

First dont buy trex. There are other manufacturers. Dont use hidden fasteners. Also consider the temp conditions at time if installation. If its summer and boards are hot than they are already expanded and can only, shrink. So if you leave a 1/8 gap on hot boards you will have a 3/16-1/4 gap when the sun goes down. Not a good look.

[@thezfunk]

@@tylerdurden5359 The composite manufacturer I am looking at has a chart that shows current temp and expected highest temp and then tells you the gap that needs to be left.

[@jmackinjersey1]

@@tylerdurden5359 Why would I not want to buy Trex and then buy another brand that also expands and contracts?

[@gustavomadrigal8041]

Thanks Gary for that tip I'm getting ready to do my my deck that's going to look sick thank you very much

[@johnm5714]

I’m doing my deck over right now and will use this method for doing the stairs,it’s beautifully done.Im reading that it’s not advisable to use the cortex screw -plug system on stairs for some reason-no reason was given but I’m gonna try it.I will block between stringers to make it dead solid to reduce flex and it should be fine.Thanks for this video-my wife will love NOT seeing the exposed ends of the PVC boards.

[@jeffshackleford3152]

Yeah... You might get some butt stuff

[@brewster102]

3:04 Kreg face clamp would be good here--also, this method doesn't work with the scalloped bottom boards, not enough material. They would need to be face screwed at the miter into the plate.

[@chrisgee3197]

Does face screwing the outside edge of a board like that still require screws through the miters?

[@Dmnazdaq]

Very slick- Thanks

[@farnorth7314]

I did this but the only change I did was glueing the joints with CE glue first...allowing to set up for 30 min...then drill and install screws...no chance of the debris screwing up the joint. The big positive I took from your video was to keep the pilot bore clean...I would have screwed that up for sure.

[@chuckdinsmore6456]

Great video. This will be really helpful when I replace my wooden deck stairs with composite. One design I would like to do is flair the steps out at the bottom, do you have a video on how to do that?

[@marlonm7]

Nice video. I personally don't like to see any screw or nail holes anywhere so my challenge usually requires more thought. But boy, talk about beautiful when a section is completed. Thanks for your insight sir.

[@PBS-nm1uu]

Nice, i like it, thanks

[@larryyang6140]

Nice tip thanks

[@tuckpoint2]

Looks good

[@tnoel374]

Good work.

[@kevingaughan3170]

Great idea and they look beautiful. I’d be interested in knowing how they held up after two years. Couldn’t imagine doing this with cellular pvc decking ?

[@olbabybeard]

Yeah pvc would explode

[@e4d578]

@@olbabybeard care to elaborate? By explode you mean it would warp?

[@olbabybeard]

@@e4d578 based on my own experiences pvc expands and contracts more than composite. I've seen 1/8" gaps change to 1/2" overnight with pvc. Granted the boards hadn't been properly acclimated before they were installed. Even when acclimated, you can still have growth and shrinkage up to 1/4" in either direction, depending on how much the temps change in the area. The screws he installed in the video horizontally through the miters will not stop the board from shrinking or growing and the gap with happen anyway. Once it does the screw basically guarantees it will NOT grow back together nicely. Composite does the same thing but slightly less.

[@e4d578]

@@olbabybeard thanks for the info! I know Dr. Decks has a pretty good solution for covering end pieces and he works almost exclusively with pvc

[@olbabybeard]

@@e4d578 yes! I've seen him use facia and deck boards to make skirting for stairs. He uses PVC glue for miters in some situations but fastens it carefully. Big fan of that channel

[@andrewgoodman1134]

Brilliant

[@wwebtime]

Pretty sharp!

[@KTSLAY]

What kind of glue would a guy use to bond those mitred ends together? Not to the stringers, just board to board.

[@javillanueva67]

Cool idea. I'm copying it 👍👍

[@zoeyanth1]

So thx to this video I did this on my deck a few years ago. With azek decking. Other composite decking is not as easy. And I used pocket screws

[@scottvoruz2394]

What size drill bit?

[@baba-sm1fm]

I wish you could have included the type of screws used and the drill bit size

[@stevehutchinson238]

Awesome! I hated my stairs for that exact reason, exposed ends. Any idea about plugs for the screw holes?

[@EtoTheKay]

Plugs are sold separately, and same color and texture as the boards. But I don't think all composite decking brand offer it. Trex does. Special drill bit also needed too to recess the screws a bit leaving space for the plugs, but doesn't look like the video guy went that route. Woulda been a much cleaner look had he done so though.

[@e4d578]

Dr. Decks has a solution for exposed edges

[@j.mizzle]

Nice work, I am wondering if a pocket screw jig would work on the underside for attaching the triangular piece to the ends, instead of running a screw through the sides where it is visible

[@ldoginak]

Yes I believe it will work. I’ve seen it done before just never done it personally

[@Straight0uttaCrofton]

Dr.Decks has a video where he does it

[@LDSKIPPER1911]

Talk about time consuming…

[@KevinsHeaven]

Wondering if gluing the ends would be permissible?

[@TMO1227]

Gary,Very nice work. My stair treads will be 100" long. If I build them this way, do I have to worry about the expansion or will they act as one piece like you mentioned?

[@Slowhand871]

As I understand it expansion doesn’t happen lengthwise although I am going 1/4” space vs 3/16”

[@lemike321]

I tried this on some sample piece today, and after pre drilling holes, cleaning junk between angle joints, when I screw it together, the joint move/slides off allignment.. tried 2 different type of screws... same results

[@Mike-jh4eo]

What is the angle

[@Warren3carpentry]

Great video! I subbed!

[@cmhuggins29]

What is the run length on your stair stringers to have the right overhang

[@robgoodwin147]

NICE!!! How do i prep for the 4x4 post on the bottom step???

[@FastenMasterPro]

Give us a call and we can talk you through it! 800-518-3569

[@ninomantia8625]

What angle did you use on the chopsaw

[@rasgum7]

45 degree

[@tnoel374]

Just subbed to your channel.

[@FastenMasterPro]

Thank you!

[@trishlilyhorn]

What kind of saw blade do you recommend on the chop saw? We cut a few boards of composite and found the plastic was fraying quite a bit.

[@fishingismydrug1]

What did you do for the risers? Rip the boards down to width?

[@FastenMasterPro]

fishing is my drug that’s right. It was ripped to the approximate height of the riser, tucked behind the lower tread and brought flushed to the top.

[@patcar5616]

Why screw down the material in lieu of using fastners in between each board? I don't get it.

[@JSmith-wy3yh]

Pat Car watch it again

[@KTSLAY]

That dewalt saw sounds like its on 200' of 14-2 extension cord

[@kevinomara3293]

tNice Vid. Too bad you omit the most important information. You never mention what size drill bit you're using, and you never show how deep you are drilling. Are you just drilling through the first piece or does the drill hole go into the second piece? I've been having fits trying to get the screws to sink right and I know it's because I don't have all the info. Thanks

[@cmango8668]

It looks great, but I thought composite decking manufacturers all require an expansion gap between all boards.

[@FastenMasterPro]

In many cases, composite manufacturers call for gaps between butted ends of boards or ends meeting up against fixed objects (walls, etc.). This is to keep expanding boards from pressing against each other or immovable objects. In this case, the four pieces being joined are acting as one uniform board, expanding together in the same direction

[@cmango8668]

Interesting, I talked with someone at Trex I believe it was, who explicitly told me to gap miters. I know because I asked in particular with regard to miters. As a carpenter, I naturally hate gaps in miters, it just doesn't look right. If you've done it successfully without buckling that's great news. I also talked to someone at Azek, which make PVC boards (not composite), and that person told me tight miters are recommended!

[@toddmiller7876]

Do your decking at manufacturers specks. Otherwise they more than likely will not guarantee the product. And all these products are very expensive.

[@DrugsAreBadUmmmKay]

@@FastenMasterPro, they can't expand the as one single piece when the grains are ran in opposite directions.

[@sonnywilson9125]

Man that's what I call Attention to detail

[@tonymasson]

Every other resource I've read or watched contradicts this approach. This doesn't seem to give any consideration to expansion and contraction of the composite decking. Nope.

[@tightbhole420]

dont have to worry about expansion/contraction for directly fastened deck boards joined with miters

[@jeffwangerin8089]

I was thinking the same thing. I’ve done joints like this and they ended up buckling. And they were directly fastened.

[@KTSLAY]

The way that the treads are fastened down , the backing, type of lumber used for the stringers are all important if you want the mitred stair treads to look good and last. These stairs have open ends. If they were a closed stringer stair design expansion would need to be addressed. I think perfectly installed backing and the way they are secured to the stringers is what will make or break a guys fancy stair cuttin high faluting cockamayme carpaintering

[@garydaley3462]

Ah, but they are still solid all these years later. Hmmmmmm.

[@CMCraftsman]

It doesn’t move very much at all

[@jameswalsh5550]

Blocking will rot out compared to on edge

[@candiejo3869]

Beautiful, but that needs to have 1/8" gap for drying, expansion, and contraction

[@tylerdurden5359]

No you do not. There's 2 faster every 16". If you have used hidden fasteners than you have already made the critical error.

[@CMCraftsman]

This is an inferior way of picture framing deck boards. Using pocket screws and 2p10 adhesive give a much better longer lasting result.

[@wolfman1549]

You don't use plugs over the screws? Looks like crap

[@guitar1950]

I saw on another channel to use a heat gun after gently smashing the edges of the hole into the screw hole. Looked great!

[@jaelyndonnelly9949]

It doesn’t look like crap. It is creative. The minimum purchase on cortex makes the cost prohibitive. If he was to stock all color plugs he would have a lot of inventory $$$ on the shelf. Business 101: make margin or get out of the business. Petition for small quantity plug/screw packages 30/pack and then you would have a very valid suggestion.

[@wolfman1549]

Jaelyn Donnelly I’ve bought them. They don’t cost that much especially if you are already paying for composite decking. Your wrong

[@skylark4901]

I trust you because of all the decking project videos you have published on KZbin.

[@KevinsHeaven]

I like using cortex plugs but the screws here on the stairs actually look great.

[@chrissling4191]

Need gapping. No matter what people say here, in 5 years the miters will look like crap. Nature always wins!

[@Christopherjamesmurphy21]

But composite isn't supposed to be installed tight. It's gotta have a 3/16 gap gap.

[@user-ce5bs4rj4w]

not the best way top build treads at all.