Fatal Crash of an Aeronca 7AC Champion at Colonel Tommy C Stiner Airfield (KJAU), Tennessee

[@daveluttinen2547]

Sad. I bet that if he had taken one refresher flight with an instructor he would have understood a lot more of the characteristics of this aircraft. Thank you for posting this.

[@scottmoseley5122]

I am sorry Ms Cooper you had to endure this tragedy and record your friends last flight. Howevr its great this was recorded perhaps it will save lives. RIP.

[@MrSuzuki1187]

I am a highly experienced tailwheel pilot with 4,000 hours in tail draggers including 3,000 hours in the Beech 18 and another 1,000 hours in the DC-3. The way we were taught to make a takeoff was to imediately get the tail up and make the takeoff roll in a level attitude. This was done to prevent premature liftoff in ground effect with the airplane pitch in a stall, as it is in a three point attitude. I immediately noticed that this pilot took off in a 3 point attitude instead of a level one and lifeted off in a stall which led to the accident. I have noticed that the tribal knowledge we knew in the 1960s and 70s is not being passed along to the younger generation of pilot with obvious consequences.

[@colinmccune569]

Absolutely agree ( flown the same types ) unless you’re doing offstrip work , snow covered , mud , soft , better to take off slightly tail low and let the wings take the load

[@rtbrtb_dutchy4183]

⁠@@washburnb1that’s just silly. RC airplanes are not the same. Also, nobody trains on simulators in the first stages of flight training.

[@rtbrtb_dutchy4183]

This guy didn’t fly for 20 years. How about we say that might be the issue and not the passing along knowledge by a younger generation.

[@rtbrtb_dutchy4183]

@@washburnb1 the training is fine. We have become safer over the years. We just see it more due to KZbin. But we do have accidents. But RC flying or some people say a few hours in gliders should be mandatory, is not really going to help. Do you think race car drivers should first learn on RC cars too? In regards to stall/spin accidents, we should stop teaching pilots that pitch controls airspeed and power controls altitude. Maybe then we will have less GA accidents.

[@washburnb1]

@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 True..RC no substitute for real aircraft demand seat of pants experience. That pilot should have had an instructor and check ride after 20 years! I can't believe he didn't get the tail up and had that feeble steep climb. What is that 45 hp?

[@timothyroberts8347]

May he rest in peace..... But this was 110% preventable .

[@reggiepaulk]

That little airplane tried with all its might to stay airborne

[@johnmccormick2883]

Sad loss of a vintage airplane

[@actionjacksondan]

@@johnmccormick2883 disgusting comment

[@smccary1996]

So sad for the families involved. As a former Aeronca Chief pilot, I will most certainly have a check ride with a CFI before starting to fly again. Haven't flown in 30 years, but retirement is almost here!

[@lutomson3496]

I thought the statement said that he did fly it back from Alabama where it was purchased from what I had read, yes sad loss that was preventable

[@timmitchell3506]

It takes a lot of poor skill to stall a 7AC!

[@bobmillerick300]

Absolutely. Who gave this guy his tailwheel endorsement, assuming he had ever received one. Just because you can fly a 152 does not mean you are anywhere even remotely close to being ready for tailwheel, especially one that only has 65hp. You need to give that airplane all the respect it deserves and then some.

[@thecanadianavee8r660]

​@@bobmillerick300this had nothing to do with it being a tailwheel aircraft. You can departure stall a 152 just the same

[@joshc7091]

@@thecanadianavee8r660no way, The it’s that tail wheels fault 🙄… Some folk

[@coriscotupi]

@@bobmillerick300 Landing gear configuration has very little to do with the why and how of a stall/spin 50 ft in the air.

[@donadams8345]

@@thecanadianavee8r660 A tailwheel aircraft is a whole different breed of cat when it comes to taking off and landing. You should get some time in one and find out.

[@mikebreen2890]

That's ridiculous, he had no business being in that airplane.

[@Umrebs64]

"the pilot had not flown for 20 years, ".....Brilliant!

[@georgelevin6134]

Good grief!

[@johnfisher7143]

It was never really flying, just mushing until the left wing completely lost its grip on the air and down it went. Must be terrifying for the person flying.

[@yorinov2001]

one very common reason for an accident like this is not checking and setting elevator trim and it is still set for the last landing glide.

[@rtbrtb_dutchy4183]

On light aircraft like this, the trim is not much of an issue.

[@SabrinaBraden-n7n]

Ole Mr. airspeed indicator can be your friend, if you notice. R.I.P.

[@dougjones8064]

Remember most a/c accidents are pilot error. Watch that airspeed during takeoffs and landings as all pilots are taught aren't we! D. Jones St. Augustine, FL Active Pilot since 1973

[@eglide73]

Unbelievable incompetence.

[@wreckum56]

Incompetence how can you say that?

[@MrLeslloyd]

@@wreckum56 you're incompetent yourself!!

[@charlesfoster141]

How in the world did this happen. This pilot's training had to be grossly inadequate. RIP

[@MemphisBBQ640]

If he had flown with a CFI, he'd be alive today.

[@DownsouthMan]

Sorry for your loss.

[@camsmeltzer9388]

Can you even consider yourself a private pilot after 20 years of NOT flying!?!

[@danielcarlson800]

Stall on take off?

[@phillipzx3754]

Looks like he was trying to use ailerons for recovery. Bad idea.

[@davidwhite8633]

Yeah, P-factor at that pitch angle starts the yaw. The yaw starts lifting the right wing, and lift begins to decrease. Right aileron further increases left wing drag and probably little or no rudder because at that pitch angle he couldn’t see the horizon line to realize he needed plenty of right rudder.

[@dr_jaymz]

How much Runway was infront of him before take off? Because some people get stuck in the situation where they are just about airborne but trees are approaching and so feel they are committed. But when he gets airborne there seems like an eternity to change his mind but can't really see. Any pilot will know that unusual nose high attitude and the ground isn't getting smaller isn't going to fix itself.

[@ThomasReindl-n4s]

Thanks for all the constructive comments. I have 900 hours in Pipers and will start tail wheel training in two weeks. There are several important tips in these comments. RIP

[@memphisharris447]

I learned tail draggers in a 7ac. Get the tail up asap. Hold her level then a little bsck pressure. It stalls at 35 as i recall. Airknocker.

[@GRW3]

His blood sugar was only 20? That didn't raise any red flags?

[@philgee6901]

urine, not blood.

[@keithwalker6892]

I learnt to fly in tail wheel aircraft. Hard to believe this happened. we always got tail up and level and waited until she started to fly and in hundreds of take offs no trouble. Hard to believe I saw this.

[@doylehargrave233]

Did that say glucose 20???

[@philgee6901]

in his urine

[@drbooo]

That is so sad.

[@jimmydulin928]

Yes, very sad. The 65 hp Continental was sufficient power for the less than 800 pounds weight of the 7AC. However, the principles of Stick and Rudder, which existed well before PTS later ACS, were not followed and are not taught in these later training standards. Wolfgang's law of the roller coaster teaches that airspeed is altitude and altitude is airspeed, but that we must develop the airspeed first and that we mush prefer airspeed to altitude until high enough to recover from inadvertent stall. He never got the tail up while on the ground for best acceleration. He was able to get up in ground effect, but continued that high pitch attitude until out of ground effect where the airplane had insufficient airspeed to both climb and turn. Vx or Vy is never appropriate on long runways, even with the much larger engines today. Push stick to bring tail up as soon as tail will come up. Pull off into low ground effect as soon as the wing will lift the weight in low ground effect. This is much slower than Vso, an out of ground effect number. Work the stick for/aft dynamically and proactively to bracket level in low ground effect. Accelerate (more rapidly than on the surface or off but still in high pitch attitude) in low ground effect to Vcc or what me and Wolfgang called zoom reserve airspeed. That is the airspeed necessary to maneuver safely when too low to recover from inadvertent stall. Pitch up to just clear, not excessively clear trading precious airspeed for altitude, any obstruction. This is how we did it. This is what Wolfgang meant by advising us to try to hit the tree, say about halfway up, and then zoom over with the outcome of the maneuver never in doubt. Vx or Vy pitch attitude without zoom reserve is always in doubt. So we have large engines. So we may not need the extra free airspeed...until we need it.

[@jimmydulin928]

@RetreadPhoto Why too much high altitude orientation like power on stall, practice stall, I know I am going to stall and recover. Way too little low altitude orientation like serious consideration of what the airplane wants to do. What does the airplane want to do in this situation? What does the airplane want to do in every turn? Why are we fighting common sense and the airplane so much? Do you really think he should have been able to recover from this inadvertent stall? Do you really think more of the same stall recovery practice is the solution? How did we get here? How did he get here? How did most of the accidents on this site get here?

[@kirtflesher1603]

Reply was also too wordy.

[@ericn1990]

You are obviously not a pilot

[@danhansen3109]

Energy in the bank, yes sir! Great input, I got something out of that.

[@ahmadsamadzai8255]

​@@kirtflesher1603😅😂

[@vg23air]

we're tail heavy sir

[@ggeorge4144]

I don't get it, airspeed is your best friend. I was lucky as I learned to fly at an airport with a very short runway with obstacles at both ends. My instructor covered all the instruments up as I kept looking at the airspeed so as to keep the speed he told me too. I learned to do touch and go's on that very short runway in a Piper Warrior without ever looking at the airspeed indicator. It is amazing how you can develop a feeling for an airplane and know just by the feel of it how close it is to the stall. Because of that training I was able to make some very tricky takeoffs and landings at a farmer's field which got very muddy in the middle. I am an instrument rated CFII, but never lost the feeling and touch of (seat of the pants) flying.

[@vg23air]

hard to get the nose down on a tail heavy plane

[@joshc7091]

My instructor as well covered the airspeed indicator for my first 5-10 hours. I leaned the feel of my bird not what the instrument is supposed to say about what my bird is doing.

[@frontcentermusician]

Let me guess. The pilot was about a 100 years old?

[@nohandleleft]

It's unfortunately common for people, such as your self, to leave everyone else without a single doubt about their lack of intelligence, compassion, and common sense. It may not happen any time soon, but the rest of us can take quiet comfort in knowing that one day you will be on the receiving end of this very same discrimination and prejudice.

[@philgee6901]

69

[@Rems61]

In the last frames of crashed plane. Look at elevator trim, It's full up. Maybe happened at crash, but if not, it could easily have made it very hard to nose down. Looks like it was not trimmed to fly. Just my 2 cents.

[@6tgr]

I think its looks too far up though, like it broke in the crash. Also up means its pushing the elevator down so nose down. so it would be the opposite of what this crash looked like. It looked like as you said he had the nose way too high the whole time.

[@itlodot]

@@6tgryeah, it’s way past normal travel, and it is resting in a “nose down” trim. Cables are going to be completely wacko with the tail damage. One does have to wonder if he had a bunch of nose up trim set.

[@Rems61]

@@6tgr That trim looks full UP to me, Maybe just my monitor. It does look like it is way too far beyond normal travel , so maybe caused by crash.

[@bobfried1903]

The trim tab is 90 degrees to the airflow. Obviously cables are crash damaged to allow this to happen. Also, that trim direction would be hard down elevator, not up elevator.

[@bobfried1903]

@@Rems61Up trim tab is down elevator force.

[@AvgDude]

FFS, nose down!

[@jayrenner211]

I hope Ms. Cooper got paid in cash......I sold a damn Vespa scooter to a semi-truck driver and even I could tell he was not really fit to ride this simple scooter. Dude broke his FEMUR on his first ride (Caught a tree root in his back yard) Yup, I had that cash in the bank that afternoon.

[@spike238]

Perfect parking , single point landing in the clearing , next to the trees ,,,

[@jeffp862]

To some extent I blame The FAA for accidents like this , if they’d allow more HP modifications to certified airplanes they’d have less accidents. People have gotten bigger and heavier and they want to charge stupid money for HP upgrade STCs it’s ridiculous. An out of date system for today’s pilots. Not to mention these engines are older and many don’t even produce the published HP after rebuilds

[@cal-native]

So many of these accidents seem to reflect a deficit of basic aerodynamic instinct and feel. As one accelerates down the runway, the tail will often begin to come up on its own. The plane will develop a sense of "buoyancy" as it continues to accelerate. Instead this poor fellow horsed it off in ground effect, and kept the nose high. RIP.

[@MARKLOCKWOOD2012]

no air speed, stalled rolled left. engine not making enough horsepower. just before the stall sounded like the engine quit. So did the pilot do a mag check? full power run up. sufficient air speed?. Things like water in the fuel. Annual maintenance. How did the plane sit between flights. Battery. Did the brakes stick. Did the pilot have any medical issues? did the rudder peddle stick, did a control cable break. odd noises when checking the flight surfaces. Was the trim set. Yes my dad used to fly. During a pre flight on the pilot side a control cable had started fraying. Had we/I not pulled on the yoke heard the scraping strands on the inside of the fuselage dad hear that what? you do it his eyes went huge? Popping the carpet up i remember seeing strands were popping. hold up three fingers. Why during an annual they didn’t do a safety check besides an oil change?. Since i was about early teens time frame the oh beep of the memory scared my chickens. i’m in my forties now. I like old airplanes etc radials. you have to be overly OCD with maintenance before each flight.

[@danielgregory3295]

At least there seems to be someone on site shooting all this video..?😢

[@kepler240]

Classic stall. Dont know how you do it on this plane, but he did.

[@gogogeedus]

cubs and these types of aeroplanes are the worst for this type of thing, the high aspect ratio wing can suffer badly from adverse yaw because the wing has a large moment but it's a short airplane so the moment on the tail is less.

[@kenharbin3440]

Once he leaves ground effect it immediately starts curving left, stall horn had to be sounding at this point. Should have put it back down. Sad.

[@mdbuehler]

A lot of these older birds don’t have stall horns, so your first indication if you aren’t watching airspeed is the buffet or nose dropping.

[@bobobrien6755]

No stall horn on these early airplanes.

[@franktino6676]

No stall horns on any Aeronca Chief or Champ.

[@jeffp862]

Idk the exact circumstances here but it looks as though That should have been a level out on ground effect build speed then lift off straight ahead. if that can’t happen you don’t bank. Banking when you can’t climb is the exact wrong thing to do. I understand the urge to get back on the ground but if you can’t climb you darn sure can’t turn and climb.

[@brianmorrison7542]

What the hell

[@JeaneGenie]

Once again, pilot error.

[@foreverflying7604]

Not much to be learned here for anyone with common sense. 20 years since his last flight…insane and illegal since he wasn’t current.

[@KG-wh8yv]

Over and over and over, stall at low airspeed and low altitude in the pattern.

[@tedsmith6137]

Didn't even allow the tail to get of the ground. Out of trim or poor piloting?

[@Poundingsand]

That, the short take-off roll and the departure stall make me wonder if the CG wasn't too far aft...

[@tungstenkid2271]

I've lost count of the number of crash vids where the pilot tried to turn too slow and stalled.

[@saintotherve]

The pilot doesn't "try" to turn... The scenario you see is that a gust of wind lifts one wing and because the plane is very close to stall AND the pilot uses the ailerons to counteract, he inadvertently stalls the low wing which induces a turn. This is what you see most of the time in these videos! Details matter... Close to the stall, they should obviously lower the nose first. But because these bad pilots don't, we cannot expect them to use the rudder, which would accelerate the low wing and avoid these low altitude spins.

[@tungstenkid2271]

@@saintotherve Yes, any kid on a home computer flight sim can fly better than that..:)

[@scotty657]

I don’t understand it never saw this in the 70s and 80s. I just don’t see why a pilot would pull it off the ground before it’s ready to fly then put it in a extreme high pitch attitude and that’s not bad enough. Then start turning left with no 😢Rudder being used

[@rdmgwinn]

Pretty sure that was the left wing stalling. No attempt to turn. Just the beginning of the crash

[@Studentofgosset]

I assumed it turned left as a consequence of the left wing stalling

[@AlbertRobinson-v3y]

Showing off ?? Flying is a very perishable skill.. Just a few minutes of dual and he probably would have been ok.. Loss of the Champ? Inexcusable..

[@philgee6901]

there was no youtube in the 70s and 80s, no cell phone cameras, either. That is all.

[@gogogeedus]

@@Studentofgosset it turned left because of aileron drag or adverse yaw.

[@markcardwell]

Just means he has allergies

[@danlowe8684]

I was just going to post that it would have been nice of the NTSB to state that diphenhydramine is the generic name for Benadryl. The other ones were heart meds.

[@nicholasaquino5160]

It looks like he powered down during take off. And tried to climb without enough power.

[@markcardwell]

@@nicholasaquino5160 i thought his pitch was to steep

[@bartonrobinett3790]

@@danlowe8684Actually Blood pressure meds.

[@nicholasaquino5160]

@markcardwell that mixed with not enough power at rotatetion. If you listen to his engine it sounds like he backed off the power" then he pitched upward which I believe caused the stall.

[@jonashodge6460]

Combination of an underpowered airplane and stall due to high angle of attack. 65 horsepower sounds like a lot, but its really not

[@karhukivi]

I learned to fly in an aircraft with 100hp and I thought that was about the minimum.

[@MemphisBBQ640]

The airplane will fly quite well on 65 hp--IF it is flown with attention to proper speed and angle of attack.

[@karhukivi]

@@MemphisBBQ640 Yes, only 2 seats I'm guessing?

[@MemphisBBQ640]

@@karhukivi only two, yes.

[@AviatorJohn70]

Right, because taking off in a three point and continuing the high AOA through ground effect had nothing to do with it. 65 hp in a 7AC works just fine if flown correctly.

[@vg23air]

and they call this the impossible turn, he did it

[@waynesmith5150]

Twoohfive

[@travelwithtony5767]

Sounded like a tractor engine.

[@BlackSheepUSMC]

Nose too high, too much rudder- inside wing stalled. RIP

[@ZelenskyTheMadClown]

I love how the plane is nowhere near the treeline but when it goes down it miraculously disappears from view behind the trees. And, this is supposed to have happened in 2022?? Looks more like a VHS video from 1990. Are you sure this isn't fake?

[@BostonBuzz]

Sounded like he tried to take off with a sick engine.......

[@imoverclocked]

More like a sick airspeed. The engine sounded fine.

[@scotabot7826]

Engine was fine. All 65 horses.

[@DBCooper-r3l]

This is your fault for not stopping this accident and you all of your YT money to the family. What are you going to do about it?

[@Nick-cd4kd]

More macho/etc....this is what happens when your incompetent in your field....glad no one else had to die in such a pitiful accident, 100% preventable.....maybe a Flight Review? some dual....looks like the insurance, bet he had none, will not pay either!

[@dannykirby7425]

I’m not even a pilot and I can see a stall happening right after the wheels got off the ground. 🥴🫣