Fatal Error! How UPS Flight 1354 Ended in Disaster

[@MentourPilot]

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[@adambashaxd420]

Bet

[@adambashaxd420]

Hold up how the hell did he comment 6hrs before the video was published 😭 💀

[@SkyHighCaptain]

​@@adambashaxd420 he schedule this video and he commented during the time he had done so

[@thenorseman2804]

So what you're saying is that you're willing to put your passengers and yourselves at risk to make a few extra bucks?

[@DavidGeorgeson]

Im not sure if you already had this video in the works or if you actually saw my message to make a video about this incident, but thank you for putting it together.

[@MatthijsvanDuin]

Giving a bonus based on number of sick days remaining sounds like a great way to have your pilots show up at work sick and spread it to co-workers. Genius.

[@NicolaW72]

Indeed.

[@catherinenelson4162]

Or not up to flying their best, but giving it a go anyway.

[@crystalsoulslayer]

A lot of American companies do that. It's a great way to get around requirements that your employees must be given sick leave.

[@SusScrofaBob]

It already starts at defining a maximum number of sick days. Nobody knows how many days you are going to be sick in a year. If you are ill, you stay at home, otherwise you go to work. Any other way of dealing with it is just "asking for more problems".

[@Thimblebumble]

It also flies in the face of "no questions asked"

[@goatmanedits4]

I used to have nightmares about being in a plane crash. Now when I have these nightmares, I scream: we're stalling! nose down! increase thrust! Thanks to this channel for adding technical detail to my nightmares.

[@roses.9181]

LOL this is so true.

[@KlintonWyont]

😂😂😂Thanx alot guys!

[@PrettyVacant45988]

​@@KlintonWyont u r welcome. :}

[@RichiePajooh-r8i]

I don’t go into the air or the ocean. Knowing my luck a plane crash followed by sharks. I flew recently six months ago first time in almost a decade. And honestly saw sooooooo many holes everywhere, lack of detail, lack of due diligence, you can tell people were just sending it in or treating it like any other day. The turbulence was terrible on the flight back. I simply cannot trust others with my safety. I know you chance that everytime you get in a car but i drive safely so at least if an event occurs im in control to some degree. I will never ever fly again unless i have to ie move to another country. Here in the states companies and quality have gone down hill.

[@RichiePajooh-r8i]

btw mentour pilot has an app and on the app there are groups specifically made for people who are afraid of flying. That being said unless mentour pilot is the one flying i simply will not go in the air again. horrible horrible experience. i’d rather drive for 18 hours then be in the air for 3 hours

[@StuffBudDuz]

If they say you can call out of work for pilot fatigue, but then say your absence will be reviewed, they can't call this a "no questions asked" policy. A planned review is basically GUARANTEEING there WILL be questions asked.

[@Degenproduction]

No questions asked … but one quick question

[@bradsanders407]

Then take your bonus away if their "no questions asked" investigation determines you shouldnt have been fatigued. And just how and who tf determines if you should be fatigued or not? Just cause your work schedule says you shouldnt be fatigued sure the hell doesn't mean your kid/newborn/family/ caregiver/insomnia schedule agrees. What a scumbag pos policy.

[@exiled1gaming]

Oh, they don't ask you. They just conclude you weren't really tired based on the cameras in your room.

[@rodrigodeoliveiraleite5129]

I think that "no questions asked" is impossible... Of course there will always be questions asked because: 1. The employer need to know who may be using the policy in bad faith; 2. If a person is getting more fatigue than their peers that may be a sign that there must be somthing wrong (health issues, etc.) The point is to do it in a way that prioritizes safety and well being.

[@mickeypopa]

I'm a long haul truck driver who commutes to a different country to work (yes, you read that right). It's about 350km drive to work but once I'm there I don't return home for 3 weeks. I do get very tired after driving the entire night to get to work, only to sit behind the wheel of a 20-40t fully loaded semi and then proceed to have a 15 hour work day with 8-10 hours of driving. At those times when I'm coming to work, I'm trying to have multiple naps during the day, whenever I can, just to avoid falling asleep behind the wheel and causing a horrible accident. Once my employer called me, during one of those breaks that I made after I began swerving on the road, to tell me I couldn't just take a break whenever I want to because he had a plan. To say I was furious would be an understatement, I started berating him that he just wanted me to start running people over on the road and killing families. He started with some slimey excuses and platitudes but it was too late and I couldn't forgive that - I immediately gave him a 30 day notice and switched to a different company. I am not dying or carrying someone's family on my conscience because of someone's greed. No way, eff that! He can drive his own truck (which he was ironically forced to do after the driver that replaced me also quit). He even called me later to ask me if I'd come back, I told him no thanks I'm fine where I am. 🖕

[@nabirasch5169]

Yer lucky: Doctors--particularly interns--don't have that option. They're harassed wherever they turn.

[@grmpEqweer]

​@@nabirasch5169 That seems like some sort of horrible initiation ritual.

[@MiPointIs]

That’s the attitude everyone should take, would he reimburse your family for loss if your income if anything happened to you? I doubt it! The highest paid jobs are not always the best, it’s worth taking a bit less it your company supports your well-being and avoids stressing you about taking breaks when driving!

[@cindyknudson2715]

Maybe you would have felt less sleepy at work if you "drove to work" and got a full night's sleep *before* going to your job at that location.

[@grmpEqweer]

@cindyknudson2715 So leave the day prior and get a hotel room, or try and sleep in his car (hard to do). That would eat up his time off. He might just fly Ryanair, if he's in Europe. The landing will definitely wake him up.

[@stephenbland7461]

As a former cabin crew, now retired, in my experience, on occasion, some crew didn’t exactly do the themselves any favours when on layovers down route. Treating layovers like holidays, partying until early hours then reporting for duty, clearly tired. On extreme occasions we had the cpt stand down crew before departure down route who were clearly unfit for duty, causing the remaining crew all sorts of problems. Some companies, for financial reasons, do push the boundaries of what is acceptable with crew rest, and often at odds with the unions, but also some crew don’t take their personal responsibilities seriously either. Just my experience.

[@melissablick779]

The first officer in the right seat seems to be getting a lot of blame here. Her mistake not reprogramming the FMC is a relatively minor oversight compared to the captain's more serious mistakes. Also wonder if cockpit gradient played a role here, given she was new to this aircraft type, much younger and a woman. It can be hard to sleep on command for split shifts like this. There's often reasons why it might be difficult to fall asleep. She was likely on her phone because she couldn't sleep.

[@jimbonater]

@@melissablick779 Minor mistake? Had it been programed correctly none of this would have happened. That being said, it seemed like UPS was intentionally trying to kill their pilots. Why would they choose to not have warnings at 500ft etc. the list goes on. I kept shaking my head during the video. Both pilots were setup to fail.

[@janeryan2709]

@@jimbonaterSure, but the captain is the PIC.

[@svenjansen2134]

Pilots with hangovers is such a scary thought.

[@gandydancer9710]

@@melissablick779 My reaction exactly. The co-pilot may not have been in the greatest shape, but it was the damn captain who flew the plane into the ground.

[@NY20N]

I worked night shifts for years and my biggest issue was people did not understand or respect that the day time was my time to sleep. Phone calls visitors and jobs around the home all used to inhibit my sleep. I do not work night shifts any more and feel much better for it. That UPS shift pattern is truly awful we are all but numbers in any industry put yourself and your family first. Be safe all and love to all.

[@mediocreman2]

100% agree. I used to transport passengers and I took my sleep very seriously. Unfortunately, other people didn't. Having gatherings and being loud, I had to even use earplugs and go into a quiet closet. To sleep.

[@bv3700]

In a hotel room, we inevitably will hear the cleaning staff vacuuming the hallways and even knocking and trying to enter your room. Earplugs are a good choice, but it is difficult in some circumstances to get a proper rest.

[@jenniferlord8378]

Circadian rhythm

[@ditzygypsy]

@@jenniferlord8378What about it? Everyone’s is different. Mine is awake all night and start fading around 10 or 11am. I have been that way all my life, although I now have debilitating insomnia because of a drunk driver. Most of us in my family are like that, but we’re all musicians and are used to working, and thriving, at night. I used to do a 12am to 6am studio session shift. I liked it. My energy is high and my creativity is at a peak at that time. If I had to sleep and awaken at 6am to sing, it’d take until well into the afternoon for my body and voice to wake up. When you see a band on Good Morning America, they most likely have been awake all night. If they look lethargic and sleepy, 10-1 odds are they slept and tried to be awake at 6am, which is for us, an ungodly hour.

[@LunnarisLP]

Totally agree. Sadly earplugs are the only way because other humans are simply incapable of showing some considertion for others. I'd already be happy if people where considerate when it is completely obvious, e.g. getting up for an old person, but even that seems like its no longer considered normal these days in many parts of the world...

[@scheimong]

I'm a software dev and a system admin. This morning I came in tired, having just got back from a lengthy business trip, then immediately screwed up by shutting down the incorrect server. A bunch of services were down for about 20 minutes and boss was NOT happy 😥. I don't think i would be able to operate in an environment where a mistake could literally cost you your life.

[@nlwilson4892]

This actually applies to a lot of shift work. Think of police and ambulance needing to drive high speeds at night, truckers, people operating and maintaining machinery in factories. It is probably more common for there to be hazards on work that requires shifts than the 9-5 jobs.

[@scottlarson1548]

In thirty years of software development I've lost count of how many times I've made a sleepy mistake and was so happy no lives depend on me doing my job correctly.

[@princeofcupspoc9073]

Been there. But usually due to anxiety.

[@asabir141]

That was a honest mistake, we learn from it. Don’t put yourself down.

[@user-xu5vl5th9n]

There are cases in every day life where a mistake could cost your life. Children are taught to cross the road safely and adults to drive cars. Life and death decisions, every day.

[@kenbrown2808]

I've worked some night shifts, and I've found that people on night shift can be loosely divided into two groups. those who treat their night shift like their daytime, and sleep while they are off shift, and those who continue their usual daytime activities while working at night. the latter do build a sleep debt and tend to have trouble staying awake on shift.

[@cruisinguy6024]

When I worked night shift (6p to 6-) as a dispatcher there was a CLEAR difference between those two groups and it was very frustrating for those of us that actually slept during the day to not only have to pick up the slack but also look over the shoulders of the other group to catch mistakes.

[@kenbrown2808]

@@cruisinguy6024 the other frustration is people around you who completely ignore that you're on a different time zone from them.

[@nlwilson4892]

I've done a lot of shifts, I'd pretty much agree with that. There is another factor though - it is best to be awake at the same time each day for a core 4 hour period and eat you main meal then. So if I'm doing a night shift, I'm getting off shift, going home, having breakfast and going straight to sleep. Then I wake up mid to late afternoon and have my main meal before going to work. What most people do is they go home, have their main meal, then stay awake for a few hours doing normal daytime activities before going to bed. Then they wake up shortly before they're due for work.

[@kenbrown2808]

@nlwilson4892 i would get home at around 8, eat supper, go to bed by 9, then wake up at 5, eat breakfast, make my lunch, and leave for work at 6:30.

[@oceanfloor258]

I used to work a mixture of days and nights, a deadly combination. So many screw ups would happen in the early hours, and one crisis would be covered by another and another. It was a recipe for a shortened life span and even early onset dimentia. Luckily I was able to get back on day shifts only, 4am to 4pm, a managable routine once used to it.

[@tjenkens]

One of the common themes in all of these crash investigations seems to be the first officers, unwilling to speak up when the captains doing things that are not correct or they are confused.

[@Scaw]

Yes, and this has nothing to do with being tired. There were mistakes made that contributed to this accident where tiredness wasn't a factor.

[@XIIchiron78]

​@@Scaw except fatigue definitely contributes to self doubt. "Well, he's not reacting, so I must be confused". It only takes a few extra seconds...

[@brerobsym]

Fatigue is a major killer, period, no matter your industry. As an ex long haul truck driver, it is one of the hardest things to combat once it starts to take hold. This is mainly due to the anxiety it produces around getting enough rest. I have been lucky, only fallen asleep once behind the wheel and in a car not truck. Stay safe peoples.......

[@erykszymendera3690]

That chess blunder from the beginning is from Fischer vs Spassky world championship match, game 1. Nice touch :)

[@MentourPilot]

😉💕

[@MrGrandure]

This is why you regularly get laid. You are a gift to humankind

[@reminderIknows]

I noticed that too!

[@michman2]

I was about to look that up.

[@randomgamerz360]

And without your response, I’d never have known that awesome detail. Thanks

[@barbarajean7208]

It blows my mind that the airline industry has standards for fatigue but not the medical industry.

[@princeofcupspoc9073]

So who has the most lobbying money....

[@alexc4300]

Not so much that - there used to be a saying, “doctors bury their mistakes.” It’s hard to hide a hundred tons of wreckage, and hundreds of bodies…

[@michaelhanson3739]

It’s nuts. Lady works on a lvl 1 trauma center. I learned Not to bitch about the first class meal and bunk on my legs real quick. They absolutely should be under same kind of regs for rqd sleep duty periods.

[@juliemanarin4127]

Yes indeed...I'm a retired labor/delivery and mother/baby RN. It can be crazy and dangerous if you ask me. Same with ER.

[@KaiyaCorrbin]

The medical field does, they just aren't often strict about them. Unfortunately, medical personnel are becoming fewer and fewer, but people don't stop getting sick or needing care. We work extra because we want to make sure people are taken care of. At my hospital, they really do try to give the workers as much rest as possible, especially with summer coming.

[@Bunnysinger]

Knowing the two pilots died, it´s astonishing how much force is is exerted in a crash and how resilient an aircraft is, since the cockpit looked mostly intact. If I only saw the images, I would have thought the pilots survived.

[@MrNikolidas]

I thought the same thing. As the saying goes though, it's not the speed that kills you - it's the sudden deceleration. I'm confident it was lights-out fairly quickly. Edit: grammar.

[@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648]

@@MrNikolidas Or, it isn't the fall that kills, but the stop at the end.

[@DrrZed]

@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 Stop, deceleration... Delta velocity!

[@TheRealArrJaySketch]

There was a fascinating video about elsewhere about from what height a fall is always fatal, and there's a lot of "it depends". In a bit about a fall from a terminal velocity speed, the video pointed out that one's own body doesn't decelerate all at once. The part of your body that impacts the ground (or object) stops, but the rest of your body is still traveling at full speed. Your body crushes itself under immense force when decelerating, basically. I imagine with plane crashes, it's probably more like splashing. If one can greatly slow down the deceleration the better one's odds.

[@maxmeier532]

In cars, the idea of a crumple zone is to absorb the energy of an impact, hence the car will get totalled but ideally the passengers survive. In reverse this means, when the car looks intact after a high energy impact, it's likely that all impact energy went directly into the bodies of the passengers.

[@Starship007]

I am a retired trauma doctor from a level 1 hospital. I also flew GA night freight before medical school. Working 100 hours/week until 55 was becoming tougher in my 50’s. My medical group did not require night call after 55 years old but many continued. It’s dangerous as you take short cuts at times.

[@DRV-mt5dd]

The medical field is a big problem too, as both pilots and doctors deal with life and death performance.

[@contra1124]

How did you even do that. I can't handle 50hrs per week

[@Bamboule05]

With a supportive partner

[@freqeist]

@@Bamboule05 Bless her.

[@ImogenC-rt3fm]

A pilot AND a doctor. Underachieve much?

[@michaelgroves4395]

As a regular shift worker, I’ve developed a fairly robust system for managing my fatigue. The night before my first night shift (right now ironically) I will sit awake until 4am and sleep until midday. My shifts are 1800-0600 and I usually get home around 0630, I’ll go to bed and sleep until 1300. After my last night I’ll get up at 1000 and power through. It’s never let me down and in 9 years I’ve never called in fatigued. If you don’t manage your sleep properly on shifts, you’re a fool

[@Powerranger-le4up]

Since this accident, UPS has also improved themselves by allowing their pilots to have quiet places to nap while they load the stuff onto the plane.

[@enigma51ted]

good to know but, omg, after all this time no issues, await until emergency??

[@alex_zetsu]

Wait... since they obviously aren't taxing to takeoff during loading why wasn't this already standard operating procedure? I'm not sure it would have made a difference in _this_ flight since the captain already had on paper rested enough even according to the new regulations for passenger flights (I guess he had that "in bed and can't get good sleep" moment that makes for a groggy next day) it would prevent pilot fatigue for a lot of their other crews.

[@indianfan1029]

I find it disturbing that there is "negotiations" involved in the process. Union trying to win a higher share and UPS trying to counter that. I know thats how the world is, but still it feels a bit odd.

[@dosmastrify]

​@@indianfan1029not for safety. I don't know about the pilots but the teamsters were given all they asked for with regard to non monetary (which includes safety) asks

[@kevatut23]

Good that they implemented positive change. Now if they could change the fact that they are, without a doubt, the absolute worst way to ship anything,.. that would be great.

[@jillcrowe2626]

Whoever created the graphic chart of wake versus sleep times did an amazing job. You certainly have talented staff.

[@benh4569]

reminds me of Gantt charts I was ordered to make, of various investment options at a brokerage, showing climbs & dips in $$$ over time. Who coded this sleep chart made it make much more sense than ex-post-facto $$$ rather than a metric that actually is critical for measuring time itself.

[@Oscartherescuedog]

I’m a Bus Driver and do shift work. My shifts change from late starts to early starts with alarming regularity. I have been tired to the point of exhaustion due to lack of sleep on many occasions on duty. The industry doesn’t care and you are expected to just get on with it. This is in Ireland.

[@muzicsean76]

Well I am a bus driver in Jamaica and we stay on our shift although the roster may change every three months or so. I have been on my evening shift for years so I’m very great full for this at my company. It really helps with the fatigue factor.

[@Elbownian]

In Ireland we have Tiredness Kills signs all over the roads. What company you drive for op?

[@colorneg1209]

I worked as an airside ops specialist for BHM when this happened and we were in the process of getting 6/24 opened up and handing it back to tower. We were literally 10-15 mins of handing it back, just needed to get a few workers off and do a quick runway inspection. Redbird (ARFF) were confused and thought the crash was on the airfield and it was Birmingham firefighters who were having breakfast nearby who arrived at the scene first. The NTSB had 18/36 closed for a loooong time. The wreckage was eventually transported to a hanger but they had to take it along taxiway A past the ramp and terminal for all to see. Dare say some horrified passengers that day.

[@DaWolf805]

Neat to see this accident covered! In my dispatch recurrent training it came up, and I was surprised to see there was a recommendation for pilots to be included in dispatcher recurrent training, and vice versa. I knew full well that wasn't required, and was disappointed to find that the FAA had ignored this recommendation due to "other rulemaking priorities" for ten years, and then last year simply said that it has been a long time and no other planes have crashed like this, so clearly, the problem must have been resolved. This type of mentality is unsurprising but still disappointing to see from our regulators, especially when it comes to dispatch - we are often ignored and overlooked in our ability to plug holes in the Swiss Cheese.

[@JeannotKuenzel]

I've watched every single episode of Mayday and Air Crash Investigations, but this format is, by far, the best and most interesting thing on Aviation Accidents out there, bar none! The detail and care these episodes are put together with, deserve a place in entertainment and education history! Thank you, to the entire team!

[@MelissaRae1975]

Also try watching Piolet Debrief with Hoover he is great too and it got be going down a rabbit hole and ended up here. I like this gentleman too.

[@BonaTaylor]

Couldn’t agree more 😊

[@theairaccumulator7144]

Air crash investigations is more for the average viewer, it's entertaining and dramatized while this is for the enthusiast, if these documentaries were on TV like 2 people would watch them.

[@rastaboy_gamesnstuff7778]

74Gear is pretty amazing too

[@bochiecole]

I like green dot aviation as well.

[@kueflies]

Fatigue is the biggest reason my interest in aviation has never gone beyond sims and info gathering. I don't think I've had a day where I felt truly rested since I was a teenager (and even then it was a fluke) but no one dies if I get drowsy in the office.

[@mattwatson]

You keep telling yourself that. It's so easy to put barriers in your way and make excuses so you never have to challenge yourself. I suspect the real reason you don't fly is because you are scared of failure and hard work.

[@calyodelphi124]

@@mattwatson My dude, chronic fatigue is a very real thing for people to experience. I experience it all the time because the job that I have does not align well with my natural sleep-wake cycle. I have to go to bed earlier than I would on my own, and wake up much earlier than I would on my own, and it results in frequent nights where I stay up too late without even realizing it. I have multiple alarms set both morning and night to try to keep me on my job's schedule and they only barely work. Barely. I still finish the work week feeling unrested.

[@CubeApril]

@@mattwatson That's an incredibly rude and assumptive thing to say to someone you don't know. I can fly planes but I would also never want to become an ATP simply because time zone changes leave me a sleepless wreck every single time.

[@fusrosandvich3738]

I hope you've thought about getting diagnosed, because that could turn out to be a sign of a medical issue without you even realizing it.

[@pkobalt]

​@@fusrosandvich3738yes. OP should consider getting a sleep study

[@DragonsFrogs]

I’m a 40yo who works in medicine and previously had no interest in aviation for the past 4 decades of my life - and I’ve become obsessed with this channel, I can’t wait until a new episode comes out since I’ve binged them all. Great work!!

[@s3vR3x]

right there with you. and im the same age

[@hrvojebartulovic7870]

you two bring it up to a new level and fly all the flights in Microsoft Flight Simulator!😜 Most of his videos were recorded using MFS

[@davidtaylor1384]

I was a postal contractor at the time hauling air mail from Birmingham to Montgomery. Both pilots were as nice as they could be. She was from Lynchburg Tennessee.

[@triniguy2000]

Fatigue is so dangerous..especially how it can sneak up. I work in IT and sometimes my schedule is sometimes pretty hectic. Once when I was coming off a pretty stressful week, Sunday to Sunday working, usually finishing about 10 every night, I made a turn with my van that I've made hundreds of times before. But this night, I totally misjudged my turn and went into a ditch. I remember sitting after and thinking that this hadn't just happened. Scary how simple it was. I rememeber thinking that I was good to go. A little tired yes. But in control. That was an eye opener.

[@danielsnook5029]

I remember from my long ago Air Force ATC days that if you didn't sleep well the night prior you could self-report and would be put in a less demanding position like clearance delivery or MOA monitor.

[@WarbirdPhoenix]

Sounds like self-induced punishment. 😆

[@johnwalker1229]

@@WarbirdPhoenixthat emoji was a punishment all its own

[@micp0760]

@@danielsnook5029 That's an excellent, realistic way of dealing with that problem.

[@ExMachina70]

it sounds a great deal of what truck drivers have to deal with. They would get pushed to extend beyond their work hours, and then get blamed when something goes wrong.

[@Haze21449]

Same with us train drivers... especially freight train drivers. I love the job, but sometimes it is just hell on earth!

[@daveg-Vancouver_Island]

Yeah that’s scary as they say driving tired is just about as bad as driving drunk, that’s very freaking scary and I could see that, I’ve had to drive tired multiple times and actually pull over for 15 mins but as soon as I’d pull over I’d be wide awake again! Scary stuff!

[@dhardy6654]

It's insane that as a truck driver I have to rest 10 hours a day. I should get a choice. It's just a 80,000 pound truck going 70 mph. Both of these pilots were DEI hires. The reason the the Capt didn't upgrade was because he liked bidding as a high senior FO vs a low seniority new Capt.

[@halfnakedewe8763]

same with us warehouse workers, ups is truly evil , we’d work 13 hours and then get mad when we started making mistakes

[@vickythefist7062]

But a huge amount of drivers use amphetamines to stay awake plus you have a takeyagraph to limit your hours .( In the UK and Australia not sure about rest of the world )

[@searchanddiscover]

"too low terrain, pull up" has to be the most frightening and stomach churning sound in the cockpit. by the time you hear it, you have very little time to correct it. edit, i am just talking about in general.

[@bannedone3ice138]

💯👌🏻

[@AdrianColley]

When it comes after "did I hit something?", it offers very little time indeed.

[@stepanbmw]

Inmediate terrain escape maneuver would have saved the situation, the thing is that they were not aware or just haven't understood the real height they were at, in the sense of perception

[@BlueSkyUp_EU]

​@@AdrianColleyGreat point. That's a detail that most people seem to ignore when it comes to this incident.

[@jimmyzhao2673]

I think those audio warnings are too monotone and polite. They ought to change them to a screaming person yelling *"Pull the F%ck up NOW*

[@gnicholson4231]

I have posted this comment before but think it is worth reiterating in the context of this video. I was due to fly a third night flight. I was in doubt about my fatigue status and fitness to fly. I had recently done a standard licence medical check with a Dr. Green(a UK CAA authorised Examiner), who had also researched pilot fatigue and published a book on the subject. I telephoned him for advice. He asked for my sleep pattern over 3 days. His immediate response was " You are not fit to fly and if your company want confirmation tell them to call me." I called Operations with this information. There was no call to Dr. Green. I was lucky to have his phone number. Maybe all pilots should have an equivalent number.

[@-DC-]

Night Freight 25 years this year i couldn't ever imagine going back to day operations, It's a completely different world and many people simply cannot adjust to it, Great Channel 👍

[@Huskers_Fan]

I’m not a pilot, only a fan of aviation. Thanks Petter and all pilots, especially commercial, for what you do. I learn a lot from this channel and from the comments!

[@AdrianColley]

In computer science, we say "Garbage In, Garbage Out" (GIGO for short).

[@Prototype10_]

​@@AnIdiotAboard_💀💀

[@gatormcklusky5850]

At my place of business we just call it Joe Biden! (FJB for short)

[@user-kb8gh5jv9t]

We also have that same saying in Aviation (GI/GO)! His SI/SO comment must be a European thing since I’ve never heard that in my 26 years of flying commercially…🤔

[@jean-pierresteenberg]

@@gatormcklusky5850 what a special snowflake

[@polymath9372]

@@user-kb8gh5jv9t In the UK, I've never heard Petter's SI/SO usage.

[@barbarachambers7974]

If anyone is complaining about being tired or sleepy before flying a plane, they shouldn't fly. It is imperative to be alert and well rested while on duty.

[@justusbeweel1109]

the culture is not there,yet...

[@user-jn1ew8rs8r]

@@justusbeweel1109 why not

[@criper80]

i do not drive if tired.

[@kamakaziozzie3038]

Agreed. Recognizing sleep deprivation is something that should be trained into pilots- actually everyone with a life critical job. It’s a delicate balance. You don’t want to punish anyone that speaks up when it occurs. yes it will cost the company money to cover a shift last minute- but if it potentially puts a mark on their employment jacket they will be less likely to speak up.

[@YanDaOne_QC]

No shit Sherlock

[@amuseme01]

My daughter will be flying with my husband for the very first time this summer and she is scared to death. I told her we’re going to have a marathon night of your channel not to scare her, but to show her that flying is actually a lot safer than driving.

[@wtp1960]

I’m a plumber from Michigan and I love how you make these incidents so understandable! You Rock,!😎

[@YHK_YT]

Every time I see the UPS livery I remember UPS flight 6, being from Bahrain too it just makes you think what could’ve been had they elected to just land here instead of attempting to reach back to Dubai, maybe then they would’ve made it, not sure about the plane but they could’ve stayed alive. Thank you for covering both, this video reminded me of that one

[@colamalfoy]

I remember that flight and it's one that's stuck with me ever since. the pilot did everything he could and when you thought he had made it, something wrong happened and it was a never ending cycle of dread until it crashed

[@dfoleyusa]

Always learn something new when watching - thanks Mentour

[@MentourPilot]

I’m so happy to hear that

[@sasasimic75]

This series is what the Air crash investigation wanted to be. Lots of technical details were explained to us armchair pilots. Bravo Peter!

[@mortgageapprovals8933]

this was a bullshit accident. even at 250 feet this was still saveable. all pilot had to do was pull up and put thrust to maximum

[@option350z]

​@@mortgageapprovals8933You are correct. This is also due to the failure of UPS and their diversity hire bullshit. Take it from many of the maintenance staff, they were destined to fail. Alot of the pilots should not be so.

[@die_moehre5658]

​@@mortgageapprovals8933Thank you for your expert analysis.

[@tspence6671]

I agree, Air Crash investigations gets very repetitive, but I think a lot of that has to do with being written for scheduled cable TV with long commercial breaks. Trying to maximize people seeing the show without feeling confused if they missed a few minutes.

[@renecoetzee8584]

I can appreciate the fact that pilots have a huge amount of responsibilities that the rest of us mortals are not even remotely aware of. I love this channel and learning new things.

[@jamesjackman4638]

One of my packages was on that flight, rest in peace to the crew who where killed. I know it was that flight, because I had the order form and details of my packages progress, I did get a replacement although it's sad that the original came at such a high cost, packages can always be replaced people can't.

[@NicolaW72]

Yes, indeed.

[@dan89592]

That music alone during the final sequence added a terrifying layer to the storytelling. Very well done!

[@ToeInMyJam]

Being exhausted is absolutely no joke. I suffer from sleep deprivation due to autism and I don't have a high-preasured job role on top of that (thankfully). Keeping your eyes open and being in and out of conciousness is common for me. If you were to put me in a cockpit (hypothetically), situational awareness would be almost non-existent. I feel bad for people who do shift work, as that messes so badly with your body clock. That this crash and subsequent fatalities were almost instantaneous, I am glad that they did not suffer. I'm also glad that no further deaths resulted from this incident.

[@chillinb3816]

Me too. An autistic insomniac

[@lonewolf5238]

Mine is from Refractory RLS, a parting gift from the high dosage Hydromorphone intake during and folloeing radiation therapy for cancer. Cancer free, thank God. But the RRLS is brutal. Even with treatment, I'm lucky to get 3 hours a night. Oh, and guess what I need to take to treat the RRLS... Right. Hydromorphone.

[@anbee8127]

Experienced my first go around yesterday in a stormy condition. Wasn't fun for a bit, but thanks to the pilots and crew, we made it back home in a few hours.

[@skopjemk]

I had one last month too. Little stressfull

[@philippal8666]

I work nights, long nights. I never understood the physical pain that occurs around 4am until I experienced it. I know how to reduce it. I know a break to rest is magic. I also know what it’s like to collapse on the floor with physical exhaustion. The darker the environment you are working in, the less water or human contact or conversation you have, the worse it is as you just think about the pain of not being asleep. Craziness. And we have no definite restrictions on our work schedule.

[@tgrunberg]

What do you work in ?

[@jimbonater]

This brought back memories when I worked at a Cargill corn milling plant in my 20s and yes 4am was brutal 😑, the worst was daylight savings time when the clock would add another hour to the pain threshold!

[@camillabrifjord727]

Hope you don’t work as an ATC controller…..

[@ChinnuWoW]

Stop working nights if you’re suffering that much for it.

[@jenniferlord8378]

As a RN we were always pressured to come in to work even when we were sick because of staffing issues it would create when one of us had to call in sick for our shift and as a healthcare professional at the time at age of 25 now as a seasoned RN I understand the need for staff but I certainly don’t run the risk of bringing down an entire airline if I am fatigued. I pray for all airline pilots out there that do their due diligence and fly safe everyone

[@munequa81]

There have been a couple of times where I had no choice but to drive while very fatigued. The drive was relatively short 30 minutes, but I remember feeling like they were the longest 30 minutes of my life, doing everything I can to drive safely and stay awake. I can't imagine having sleep debt as part of your job because of pressures from protocols and expectations.

[@renegadetenor]

I have that. Its amazing that they think 8 hours rest in the middle of the day, is somehow equal to 8 hours at the proper human time frame, overnight. And then of course they expect you to not skip a beat when your shift changes pretty much every day! Not only that, but I'm older.

[@munequa81]

@@renegadetenor Oh man, that's awful. It's usually the managers who have a set schedule that think your health and sleep aren't affected because theirs isn't.

[@MandoMonge]

In that case, never fly any of the Middle Eastern airlines. We’re constantly flying on less than 20 hours of rest between flights and often get 14 hour layovers on transatlantic flights

[@Beepbop132]

Spooky, you should rest man makes me not want to fly knowing this information

[@MMedic23]

Any example airlines you can give?

[@basedonwhom]

Then you’re basically asking for a tragedy.

[@manygoodmen]

Mandomonge? Middle East have 25 airlines in 15 countries. Is it Emirates? Kuwait, Qatar? Jordan? Israel? Pakistan? India? Egypt? Sudan? Somalia? Yemen? Afghanistan? Turkey? Bahrain? Syria? Iraq? Israel? Tunisia? Morocco?Algeria? Libya? Mauritania? Western Sahara? Saudi? Oman? Djibouti and North Tehran?

[@mortgageapprovals8933]

@@Beepbop132 this was a bullshit accident. even at 250 feet this was still saveable. all pilot had to do was pull up and put thrust to maximum

[@stephaniejooste3879]

I'm hoping we'll get a programme regarding PSA Flight 182 sometime soon. This accident happened when I was barely a year old and changed many operating procedures, unfortunately at the high cost of 144 lives.

[@MannyL-g3m]

Then Aeromexico 498 8 years later.

[@gogreen7794]

I remember clearly the PSA crash. I was in grad school in Michigan, but being the daughter of an ATC, I paid a lot of attention to the tragedy. Ironically, 4 years later in Sacramento, I was sitting at the desk of one of the victims and doing her job. One other victim worked in the same office. Many of their coworkers were still grieving their loss.

[@liamhome1664]

As a man in my late twenties, I had never heard the expression "sh*t in, sh*t out." I thought it was "garbage in, garbage out," which is what my parents used. Lol.

[@alexandermonro6768]

I suspect that something may have been lost in the translation from Pettar's original Swedish. I doubt that the term exists in standard ICAO English phraseology.

[@Spacemongerr]

​​​@@alexandermonro6768 At least in Norwegian "skitt", which means "dirt, filth, garbage", is pronounced exactly like English "shit". In Swedish they mainly say "smuts" for dirt though. They do also have skit, but pronounce (and spell?) it a bit differently, and I think it can mean both shit and dirt. Anyway, in general, using crude or curse-words in professional settings is way less stigmatized here than in USA. There's no such thing as a "clean" version of a song, for example. You can hear cursing on the radio or TV any time of day

[@tahaak]

It’s the same thing as in software engineering where there is a concept called "Eat your own dogfood" in professional settings but it quickly turns into "Eat your own sh!t" when you talk with your longtime colleagues.

[@SusScrofaBob]

For me as an european "shit in, shit out" is the usual term for this concept. Sometimes I have the impression that americans believe in magic of words and that the devil will appear when you use these terms.

[@leeprice133]

Yeah, 'shit' and 'garbage' are almost perfect synonyms in this context anyway

[@petequesada2936]

Many years ago, I was driving the hour home from work late at night. I remember getting into my car and then turning off the engine at home. I never drove exhausted again.

[@martinasikk6162]

You are a wise person. Your family and everybody else around you are lucky. 🇸🇪

[@28ebdh3udnav]

I experienced it once and it scared the hell outta me. After I had my twins, I barely got any sleep. This one week, I was averaging about 3 hours a night for a week and I hung out with my friend. I was so tired coming back that I swore I saw trees and the road moving like lava and stuff on the road that wasn't there. It scared me so bad that when I came back, my spouse noticed that I was pale. Extremely pale, red eyes, and with a very high pulse. It scared me. That night I took a sleep aid and I slept from 11 PM to 3 Pm the following day. Even still, I had some lunch, did a few chores and I went back to sleep at 10 PM and woke up at 12 PM the following day. It wasn't til after the second night of sleep that I finally felt better

[@AlexxSawyer]

I just had a daydream about having a regular dream where I am on a plane that is about to crash and you are the pilot and I feel safe but also more freaked out at the same time. I hope this brings you joy that someone would day dream about dreaming about you because you are a specialist in your field and are essentially the face of best practices and good behaviors. You are an angel that will get his wings one day sir.

[@jennifertwede7142]

The more Mentour Pilot I watch, the better I’m able to fly on my FS2020. Thank you Petter for the fascinating educational videos, and top notch graphics. I’m so very happy I found this channel! Getting to learn to fly has been a dream come true, and I couldn’t have done it without Mentour Pilot!

[@Faz99Master]

I’ve been in the transportation industry for decades (rail and road) and the issue of fatigue management remains of enormous consequence to the bottom line of airline/railroad/shipping corporations. I know of very few people who thrive in a work environment that necessitates staying awake when normal human beings are sleeping. That means an individual needs to rest or sleep on command. All this is easy to put on paper in the creation of new rules and regulations governing sleep and rest. In the end, as long as industries require human beings to stay awake while they should be sleeping, these tragedies will continue to occur.

[@snowmonster42]

You're right, of course. Sleep remains a pretty mysterious physiological process - or at least, things are pretty clear as long as a person is either awake or asleep. It's the process of getting frome one state to the other that remains mysterious. Writing a policy and saying "this is reasonable and everybody will be fine" is sort of nuts. I have a personal theory that the fact that 80-90% of people can adjust to almost any unsafe expectation, at least for a little while, is what makes them so dangerous. The 10-20% see other people handling it and think they just need suck it up, and the 80-90% really aren't able to sustain their level of functioning. After a year or tow, or maybe 5-10 years they begin to have serious problems. Next thing you know it's 2024 and everyone is fat, tired, and socially isolated. But that's just my theory.

[@renegadetenor]

Absolutely!

[@notmyrealname8686]

In Australian workplace law there is no incentive for not taking your entitled sick leave (mainly to prevent the spread of illness in the workplace) In fact it is more advantageous to take the sick leave even if you don't really need it. The fact that there was an incentive for airline pilots to ignore their fatigue for a bonus payment is madness.

[@uclajd]

Remember those rules are collectively bargained, which means the union likely asked for them.

[@maxmeier532]

@@uclajd until proven, your statement is factually wrong.

[@zburnham]

And standard operating procedure in just about every industry in the USA. In some states the government mandates sick time for all "regular" employees, but even then it's unpaid. One way or another, your employer will make sure you never call in sick, either because your sick time is unpaid, or because you actually used the time you're entitled to under the law (and an employee asserting a right in this country is the quickest way for that employee to get an all-expenses-paid trip to the curb with all their stuff in a box. Sick days in the USA are considered socialist or lazy. Even if your boss doesn't fire you for taking sick days (illegal, but pretty much unenforceable unless you can afford lawyers) you'll find yourself with poor performance reviews or no raises.

[@zburnham]

@@uclajd Why don't you go be anti-Union somewhere else.

[@bubblegumpurple7525]

Except for the fact that you won't ever get a minimum wage job that's not casual.

[@ElmerCat]

At 5:39 - Your pronunciaiton of Louisville is so adorable, I had to play it over and over again!

[@titankaltaris]

It's a super short sequence, but the clip from 37:58 to 38:02 is absolutely terrifying. Just watching that wall of earth appear out of seemingly nowhere and knowing nothing could possibly be done about it

[@frank_av8tor]

Thank you for the excellent review! Propper management of the FMS is crucial and needs both crewmembers involved, all changes should be verified by both. You said best, the FMS is not smart, it will do whatever the pilots tell it to do, including flying into the ground. Been flying freighters since 2001 and have adjusted my lifestyle as much as possible to the schedules. The accident duty looks very similar to most of my schedules until a few years ago, when my company decided to give us a complete day layover between segments (9pm through midnight), hotel stay, then back on the next day, takeoff at 3am back to base by 7am. This was greatly appreciated by all of us pilots. The importance of taking full advantage of rest periods cannot be over-emphasized. Don't know about UPS specifically, but those crew rest rooms at the airport are spartan at best, with just a bed, a nightstand, and a lamp. Kudos on the production!

[@vinsoer]

These videos are absolutely incredible, better than any aircrash tv program hands down. Thanks Petter and the team!

[@MentourPilot]

Thank YOU for watching!

[@thedankestmemes1116]

Yay! New video! Can we bring back video chapters? I like rewatching the more complicated parts so I can double check my understanding, and chapters help a lot with that. Thank you for these amazing videos, now I want to be a pilot someday!

[@chubster71]

Wow! There's so much a pilot must know and be thinking about at all times. This job is definitely NOT for everyone. Kudos to all the pilots out there that can handle this kind of stress.

[@szelag]

I appreciate how much the aviation industry has gotten safer over the decades, and it's so sad and unfortunate that something like this happened relatively recently and in "normal" conditions (an aircraft in good working order). Shows how significant the human factor is. It's good perspective though. For as much as anyone can be frustrated by a delayed trip due to a flight crew timing out on hours, I'd much rather be in that situation than be a passenger with pilots who aren't totally in the game.

[@fendermsc38]

I work for a large airline in the US and love your videos. You are also very popular among our crewmembers. Excellent content to say the least. Thank you!

[@johnsrabe]

1:00 I love how you have to crinkle paper a little bit to make it look like paper. It’s a bit like hearing wind hit a microphone, or getting a little sun glare on a camera lens.

[@laratheplanespotter]

Chronic fatigue and pain is what’s preventing me from getting a commercial license. Which I’m actually pretty glad it’s a bar. I could never handle the pressure. Fatigue really scrambles my brain up and I get brain fog. I can’t deal with that kind of responsibility. I’m in awe of all of you who are commercial pilots

[@stevenmunetsi]

If you're to have an incident while in charge of a flight, they'll judge you through this comment 😂

[@laratheplanespotter]

@@stevenmunetsi thank goodness I won’t ever be 😂. Simulator only!

[@MentalParadox]

@@laratheplanespotter I'll hold you responsible for the "deletion" of hundreds of virtual beings on your flight

[@laratheplanespotter]

@@MentalParadox lmao 🤣

[@MyGoogleYoutube]

The ground proximity warning would had sounded around 10 seconds sooner had the FREE software update been installed by UPS. But UPS didn't want to spend the funds for losing aircraft productivity to install this. UPS is something else sometimes.

[@Shadow__133]

It's astonishing that we still use the current NOTAM system. It is designed to overwhelm pilots with irrelevant information, obscuring crucial details. On days when I visit 4-5 airports, some of them may have up to 120-200 NOTAMs each, making it impossible to sift through the necessary information. Why can't we at least have a visual system, where runway/taxiway closures are depicted?

[@rolandmenero6490]

The NTSB put the pieces of that plane back together in one of our hangars. It took many, many months. My company had it’s own fire department and formed one leg of the response triad for KBHM emergency response. They were one of the first to reach the crash. The impact was incredible and both of the crew were torn from their restraints. They had to be removed from under the instrument panel. God rest them.

[@AvvrYT243]

Flying out of BHM, I can confirm that runway 18 is usually used for smaller regional flights on CRJ type aircraft. When landing there, we didn’t have visual contact so we had to do a go around

[@Constantin..G]

I always enjoy your videos and enjoy learning new things about aviation. This video about fatigue relates to me also. I am a truck driver and also often have to fight against fatigue, especially during night time driving, but for me, I think, it's somewhat easier to deal with it because I can pull in into a truck stop, take a walk, breathe some fresh air etc. But you pilots have to deal with a lot more stuff. More systems on an airplane, where a push of a button can make a big difference, a misunderstanding between pilots/traffic control. In an emergency you have to take lots of decisions very quickly. And in cases of accidents the damage is way way bigger. You have way more responsibility on your shoulders and deserve lots of respect. Thank you for your work, and keep making this videos.

[@legshakermaker1968]

Just reading through the comments and can only concur. Petter, you are the Sébastien Loeb of air crash investigation video producers! Every aspect of what you do is so far ahead of any other channels, it's almost not worth them bothering. Over the last 30 years I've averaged around 50-75 flights per year for my work and have gone through periods of being quite a nervous flyer. Watching your channel highlights how complicated piloting commercial aircraft is and how many things can go wrong. What it also does is show the systems that are in place to keep us safe and how the industry learns and adapts when the holes in the Swiss cheese line up, to avoid a similar accident happening again. Please keep up the amazing work!

[@arr.0w363]

Another night of binge watching mentour’s videos… I don’t even usually comment but I just wanted to say thank you so much, I really enjoy them all

[@suserman7775]

So many of these accidents display a massive lack of situational awareness. I can't understand why they don't hit the throttle and climb enough to figure things out. They KNOW they're confused but are too embarrassed to admit it.

[@NicolaW72]

The FO was too tired and the Captain was too surprised because he was the whole approach fixated to be too high and found himself now suddenly to be too low.

[@suserman7775]

@NicolaW72 Yes but there was evidence that he KNEW he was confused. Unless I know I'm high above terrain, I'm throttling and pulling on that yoke.

[@bobdillaber1195]

You do such a fine job with your videos. So we'll done. Thank you for the care and attention.

[@MentourPilot]

Thank YOU for being here, supporting!

[@kingal89]

It is wild 2 pilots wouldnt know their altitude. That is single handedly the most important part of flying.

[@somethingandapie]

I work in sleep science, and I have heard experts in the field advocating that all, yes, /ALL/, people who work night shifts should get a risk bonus because of the toll it takes on their bodies. The difficulties and dangers of sleep deprivation and circadian misalignment are sadly too often underestimated

[@blablablablablablablablablbla]

I think pretty much everyone gets paid more for working a night shift.

[@tomhargreaves8820]

I never get tired of your productions! (They're not just videos, they are productions, excellent ones!)

[@reminderIknows]

that intro was unique from any others you've posted, and I must say it was absolutely fantastic!

[@mortgageapprovals8933]

this was a bullshit accident. even at 250 feet this was still saveable. all pilot had to do was pull up and put thrust to maximum

[@NicolaW72]

This tragic Accident brought indeed the Topic Fatigue in Aviation onto a new Level. It really changed how the Aviation Industry is dealing with this Phenomenon. Thank you very much for picking this Accident up and explaning why it happened in such an informative Way!🙂👍

[@xbjrrtc]

Man, that text she sent about needing more sleep is chilling. I feel so awful knowing what's about to happen to them

[@xasbo]

The graphic at 5m54s is really phenomenal at communicating the context that the FO had leading up to the accidental flight. Well done.

[@mrrep2057]

I remember seeing this accident when it crashed being from Birmingham. Accidents like this haven’t happened many times from what I can remember it’s heartbreaking learning what actually happened here. I love how you do a very thorough in depth explanation of everything.

[@anguskeenan4932]

My biggest fear is sitting on the apron, looking out the window and seeing a baggage handler trip over or something and then just hearing from somewhere in the plane ‘that’s worth remembering’

[@vasilivh]

When you start hearing the Air Craft Investigation voiceover narrating your trip, you know you are in trouble

[@L555HEP]

Best channel on KZbin. Amazing quality content. Thanks.

[@MentourPilot]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@Mari-tr2yr]

Keep up the amazing work Mentour Team! Love this channel!

[@mattbauman179]

Thanks!

[@MentourPilot]

Thank you for your support, Matt!

[@nomel747]

I have seen and read a lot of all these crashes you are talking about, but the way you talk about it and all the details around it just beats any documentary or Air crash investigation series! Amazing work put into this, keep it up!

[@ThreenaddiesRexMegistus]

Currently at home preparatory for a final night shift. The disruption to regular sleep patterns is very real. You know you should rest but it’s often impossible despite trying when the rest of the world is on their normal cycle.

[@emanuelneiconi]

As soon as i saw the thumbnail and title I wondered if this was about thr B'ham crash and as soon as I saw the intro with the trees it was confirmed. We lived in a suburb of Birmingham at the time and I remember being woken up by a loud bang sound. Being still very early, I went vback to sleep only to wake up to news and footage of the wreck. Very tragic incident and you covered it very well - I actually learned some new things about it. Have friends who ofdly enough lost some important items that they were waiting on to be delivered and happened to be on this fateful flight. I had spent many days and have hundreds of photos of aircraft landing at this airport. Still think about this tragic event....

[@jonyjoe8464]

the co-pilot didnt get proper sleep so she wasn't up to the job, the captain got good (perhaps excellent) sleep but he was incompetent. They canceled each other out.

[@zeendaniels5809]

13:18 Sadly, that's not how the industry perceives it. Airline worker here. No one wants a delay, and this, instead of being "delayed because of NOTAM at destination" would have been "delayed because the captain didn't feel up to the task of using the shorter runway". THIS is indeed tragic.

[@Xnoob545]

That outcome still seems better than 2 deaths and also a whole bunch of packages that were ruined and had to be replaced, along with an entire plane, which is very expensive

[@BillyKirbyUK]

Petter I am not an aviator but I love the detail and precision that you and your team put into your videos. If nothing else they are very entertaining, so thank you, I realise these take a huge amount of work both inm the simulation and in the editing. PS I already have some of your merch but will think about procuring more when time and money permits.

[@TerryMundy]

Bad UPS for disabiling the alarm that could have alerted the pilots that they were too low.

[@jobjongebloet]

u must understand how anoying alarms are haha

[@shannoncarlson6960]

Thanks for reviewing this crash. I have always found this accident tragic and never really understood why it happened. Great explanation ❤

[@joequinal]

Petter, the videos keep getting better and better. Thank you so much for teaching us how air travel gets safer and safer over time!!! ✅💪🥇

[@louisvillaescusa]

In the movie, The Spirit of St. Louis, (starring Jimmy Stewart) Charles Lindberg checks into a hotel on the night before his flight, but can't get any sleep. (He keeps telling his brain, "Turn your motor off!" But he still can't sleep.) As he gets closer to Europe on his flight, the effects of his sleep deprivation begin to kick in. I spent my career as a theater tech and sleep deprivation was always a problem because of the odd, long hours that we had to work. I had a coworker who actually fell asleep (and crashed his car) twice when driving home after long shifts. Sleep deprivation is nothing to mess with.

[@marlenebrown2569]

It is apparent to me that the bonus should be given for the pilots who were honest and took time off when needed! Good Grief!

[@ifell3]

Thank you for putting these together. Why are people on the graveyard shift always treated worse off, when they have to tackle so many other factors. Not just in airlines but in general.

[@martinasikk6162]

True. Thank you for the comment ! 🥀

[@metacob]

Letting/making pilots fly while tired/exhausted is effectively the same as making them fly drunk.

[@carlramirez6339]

39:19 I wonder how many of those cargo items were still in a usable condition and can continue their journey to their recipients.

[@Completeaerogeek]

Hi Petter, as always, I love your content. As an aviation/airline professional, for more than 40 years, I find it is much more detailed and nuanced than other channels. One caution though: beware of describing the move from Flight Engineer to pilot as an ‘upgrade’. That is very US-centric. From the time Flight Engineers first appeared on the Dornier DO X in the 1920s, FEs came from engineering backgrounds not pilot. Aircraft complexity and unreliability meant that for many decades, most countries including the US required them to hold an A&P (B1) licence or equivalent and the appropriate level of systems experience before even applying. The FE conversion course was often quite a bit longer than for pilots, as they had to know every system plus all the non-normal and emergency procedures by heart. It was only in the 1970s that the FAA began allowing pilots to ‘fly’ the FE panel but most other countries continued to require a Professional Flight Engineer (PFE). These folks would not consider the move to an FO position as an ‘upgrade’ (I had no desire to become a pilot even though I flew light aircraft) as it would almost certainly result in a pay downgrade and they considered their position as a specialised role and in many emergency situations this deep systems knowledge and independent overview would (and did) prevent negative outcomes (Air Transat 236 is a good example-no competent FE would crossfeed into a leak) A look at the Concorde FE panel will demonstrate the complexity I am talking about and the reason why only engineering qualified FEs were used.