Atreus - The Making of a Hero - Part Two

[@ivanhunter6492]

Atreus couldn't POSSIBLY have expected Odin to be Tŷr. No one could have. They were all riding high to notice the red flags

[@Aschwartz14]

Honestly? I don’t know. I totally get why atreus didn’t… but the others? When you watch his video on the deception, you realize that he actually left some pretty big clues. Kratos and Freya were too wrapped up in their own personal dramas, but I’m actually kind of shocked mimir never figured it out.

[@mywifesboyfriend5558]

Brok did.

[@SoMuchFacepalm]

@@mywifesboyfriend5558 Google translates this to "He gave money."

[@Augustborne]

@@Aschwartz14if I had to guess, Odin knew Tyrs mannerisms and personality enough to mimic him in short bursts and his aloof and odd nature was chalked up to his long imprisonment. If any of the characters spent a long enough time with him they’d probably would’ve noticed something was off about him

[@badrinath5306]

The simplest thing is retrospection. Now that we know we already know, we can 0ut those together.

[@BrotherShaw]

"I just want answers." "I just wanted answers!" It hit me when I remembered that the Giants established the story as Atreus's story. Not Kratos'. It makes sense, in the end, that Atreus was the one to make the choice to get rid of the Mask. He understands the cost of letting your impulses control you. It affects more than just you, as well.

[@WobblesandBean]

Yeah, he knows what his dad did, he wants absolutely nothing to do with that path.

[@alexpousson5237]

7:19 it's cool to me how they write this. Odin is a mirror of Atreus while Thor is a mirror of Kratos. It's like what would happen if these roles were swapped.

[@jonathan0225]

@@alexpousson5237 ..add the parallels to odin and Kratos, thor and atreus too. And atreus to Odin's expired sons.

[@DanialTarki]

Atreus tries to convince people with the truth, Odin tries to manipulate people with questionable hypotheticals.

[@andrewowens4421]

I think people sometime forget that Atreus _is_ just a kid and he's going to screw up. We're so use to the adults making careful decisions that we forget that Atreus doesn't have the same experiences that they have. He simply doesn't know how to not put his foot in his mouth and we can see those mistakes he's making a mile away. We have the advantage of seeing this from a third person perspective, but if you were in the same shoes you'd be hard-pressed to realize you're making the same mistakes as Atreus at that age. It feels annoying because this stuff should be obvious, but it really never is.

[@videocrowsnest5251]

I was thinking it might also be some folk have no patience or time for kids in general. I kind of notice there seems to be a bit of a correlation between how a child characters actions are seen and viewed though with how much a player, watcher or reader has developed patience and understanding (fondness) for children in general. When it comes to media, feels like there also is a fair number of people who don't go onto develop different evaluation processes for the actions of an adult character vs the actions of a child character. Treating every single character like they are an adult while pretending very hard to not remember at all what it was like to be young themselves.

[@therecombinant6215]

Yes, because children are the only ones on the GoW franchise that makes stupid mistakes. There isn’t a certain Ghost of Sparta that is has done stupid things that attributed to his modern Greek tragedy. .

[@laquedibuja2003]

​@@therecombinant6215 Also a good point. Everyone screws up all the time in God of War, if everyone were perfect we wouldn't have a story

[@jarofpickles4057]

Of course but part of growing up is realizing that actions always have consequences, as was mentioned in this video. Consequences that are the product of the actions of a child do not suddenly become any less real.

[@bluesh0es]

I think a bigger problem is that Atreus is a teenager written to reflect a teenager of today. A teenager who grew up in isolation as Atreus did, in a world of Gods and magic, prophecies and literal world-ending events, Atreus just seems and feels too childish, even for his age. We honestly in today’s world underestimate children and what they’re capable of. Look at people today in their early 20s and how we excuse their behaviour and have basically no expectation from them. “They’re barely adults. Still trying to find their way.” But in the world of GoW? Atreus would have grown up very fast. It is to me unbelievable even a teenager of his age would act the way he does. He’s too childish even for his age, because of the supposed world in which he grew up, and what is at stake. Children at 3 years old. An learn to play chess. Guitar, and so on, yet so many people still let them win when playing a game of thumb-war! I personally thought Atreus in the first game was awesome and really well written, it is in the second game they lose me a little. But of course not that this bothers me, it is just an explanation of why I think people have little patience for him, and higher expectations. Very high stakes, very immature teenager. It is still the best story told through video games in my eyes.

[@The5lacker]

I like the acknowledgement that "Unintended Consequences" and "Manipulation" aren't inherently negative or evil. Sometimes people need to be nudged out of harmful patterns, and sometimes you just have to take a risk and hope for the best, or even just make the most of a mistake. I really like this idea of Atreus as this... benevolent cultivator, someone who sees the best in people and does his best to help them achieve it.

[@WobblesandBean]

Evil intentions or not, the consequences are no less damaging. In some ways I feel like Atreus is even worse, at least if he was deliberately doing these harmful things it would show some level of competency. But no, he's just careless, and doesn't really give a toss about who will be affected by his choices until he's personally impacted by it via Sindri cutting ties with him. And even then, he downplays his actions and cares more about himself than Sindri.

[@IskandarTheConqueror]

​@@WobblesandBeanwell yeah, like a teenager. doin stuff without thinking it through and trying to weasel out of it is par for the course. not saying saying you have to like the character or the trait, not even saying its good, but thats how it is in most cases unfortunately. frankly if its handled properly it's a good spring board for growth

[@kristym7149]

Today is a good day

[@omarkumar8036]

Heavy: :D To be not dead !

[@killerwhale2765]

Indeed

[@dominickroberts4653]

​@@omarkumar8036he You are ded

[@timothytzovolos153]

THE HEAVY IS DEAD!

[@dominickroberts4653]

@timothytzovolos153 yes I am ded

[@Grey_OSN]

Atreus and Odin are similar yes, the thing that differentiates them is empathy. Atreus is genuinely fighting to protect his father, the loss of Brok breaks him completely. Odin on the other hand is doing it for himself, he loses Baldur his “tracker” not his son, Heimdall the Gjallarhorn overseer, he kills his own son Thor to make sure he wouldn’t rebel and be a problem. Atreus’s “humanity” is what separates him which is funny because he’s not human whereas Odin claims to be the Allfather but is nothing like a father.

[@jaybiegs]

In this context it really is fascinating to look back at Atreus's interactions with Thor. I'm immediately reminded of the two of them returning from Muspellheim and Thor says "Don't try to play me again". I wonder if he could detect the similarities between Atreus and Odin, contributing to Thor's general resentment at everything Atreus says.

[@Arkham13v]

It's funny that Odin acts more like Loki than Loki himself.

[@jonathan0225]

ikr, fascinating that loki got it from Odin too lol. but i feel the yapper Odin may have inadvertently rubbed off from Giants knacks for speech. at least the GOW giants. turned their diplomacy into his weapon.

[@arikutin1032]

I disagree. Yes, Odin filled the role of "manipulative evil man" better than Atreus, despite Loki filling that role in other stories that include Norse mythology. But beyond that, there's substantial differences. Loki is a force of chaos, as was covered in this video. He fights to bring Ragnarok about, in the myths at least, because it's the next event of chaos and change. In a lot of other stories, he's portrayed as evil because the status quo is good, and he would make it worse in the name of chaos. Odin is different. He doesn't want change. Change is happening beyond his control, and he's trying to stop and reverse it. Everything he does in the game is a manipulation to try and bring things back to how they were before Baldur's death. He supports the status quo, where he had control over almost all the realms. He's not a force of chaos, he's a force of order and control.

[@WinterPains]

It makes a bit of sense, considering the real possibility that mythological Loki is an aspect of Odin.

[@jonathan0225]

@@arikutin1032 yes on all your points! Indeed different from the existing norse mythology text for sure. In GOW fashion, Loki is for change for the better , Odin for status quo indeed because he has to have everything under control. His intent seems to be to control his destiny but in that paranoia he poisoned everyone and everything he touched for his quest of supposed "knowledge".

[@jonathan0225]

@@Arkham13v @arikutin1032 just fascinating that they were able to somehow spin the myth into the GOW tapestry and make it work.

[@aaronthomson3639]

Honestly Atreus is what got me invested in the God of War Franchise and he's an easier character to root for in contrast with his father. As much as I love Kratos now, I can't ignore his gushing red past. But he and Atreus do have one of the best father-son dynamics I've ever seen in a piece of media. I really hope we get a spin-off centered around Atreus and its called God Of Mischief.

[@axx012]

Nope on the spin off idea. Don't like playing as Atreus

[@zbaksh101]

me too

[@SoMuchFacepalm]

@@axx012 That's why a spin off is a good idea, you just don't play that game. The alternative is he stays in the GoW games, which you don't like, or stops being a character, which people who like him won't like.

[@tgf0cj101]

Atreus/Loki learning to embrace his chaotic nature in a future game would be epic. It's still gotta be called God of Mischief.

[@LittleCheebs]

Or God of Chaos!

[@ysgramornorris2452]

Funny you should mention Kratos' story arc revolving around letting go. That phrase comes up a lot, and not just in Kratos' arc. "I killed her son. There is no letting that go." "Let go of me. I said LET GO!" "Let it go and you may live." "I couldn't let him go." "You gotta stop. You gotta let go." Regarding Atreus, there's one thing I like to say about Loki in norse mythology: he's the god of kicking the anthill. In the myths, the universe is pretty much in order and nothing happens. Until Loki finds a new way to fuck things up. Most of the adventures that happen in norse myths are a result of Loki's intentional meddling or uninentional screw-ups. In either case, he's usually also the one to fix his mistakes. In God of War, Atreus' grief over Fenrir's death makes him turn into a bear and destroy the protection stave, allowing Odin and Thor to pay the boys a visit and kickstart the plot; Kratos spends a good chunk of the game "following [Atreus'] every whim"; and his many failures ultimately pave the way for Ragnarök. Interestingly, the only other proactive god in the norse pantheon seems to be none other than Odin...

[@Kaijugan]

In the Mythology, Loki is basically the Wile E. Coyote of the pantheon

[@nomado.3855]

I've maintained my position that Atreus is not responsible for Brok's demise, nobody not even Kratos could ever possibly deduce that this Tyr wasn't the real Týr, that's how Odin was good in manipulatin' others even in disguise, and compared to Freya, Sindri, Thor and even his own father, Atreus experience of losin' Brok's (while tragic) is mild because he didn't took away the choice of the people that had met on his journey, but thanks to that he learned that his impulsiveness and recklessness was way over the board he became more humble and reasonable and that's shown how he begged Odin to stop and even gave him a chance to redeem himself (he failed but he tried), and Sindri has to pay the consequences of his actions because HE Was the one that gamble with his brother's soul because he couldn't let it go and still lose him permanently by Odin's hand. Atreus is somebody that one day he will become a leader because his mistakes made him the young boy and man that he is now and true leaders like his Father are among the finest. God I love these Norse era games Also the Greek)

[@ysgramornorris2452]

It's not just about Atreus' inability to see through Odin's disguise. It goes deeper than that. Sindri is mad at him because he invited fake Tyr into his home. Kratos and Atreus had nowhere to go. Sindri agreed to welcome them in his home, and even accomodated them by giving them a room, offering them food, etc. And then Atreus went and freed Tyr, and welcomed him into Sindri's house. When you're invited to stay at someone's place, _you don't invite other people in behind their back._ The issue here is broken trust. It's Atreus overstepping Sindri's boundaries. The harsh reality is that Kratos and Atreus are _abominably rude_ guests. Which is made worse by the fact that hospitality was a huge thing in Kratos' original culture. Atreus isn't responsible for falling for Odin's trick, nor is he responsible for Odin killing Brok, but he _is_ responsible for letting Odin in without asking for Sindri's permission first. Atreus vouched for someone who ended up killing Sindri's brother. Put yourself in Sindri's shoes. You opened your home to a pair of gods in need, offered them food and shelter, all you asked in return was for them to wipe their feet, _and they didn't._ Next thing you know, they bring home a third god in need, and generally start behaving like they own the place. Without asking if it's fine by you, they turn your house into their base of operations, start bringing even more gods in, and not even once do they stop to ask you if you're OK with it. They never even bother to _thank you_ for your assistance. And finally, one of those guests you didn't ask for kills your brother. I would be mad at Atreus too. "I didn't mean to" wouldn't cut it. And I would definitely hold him accountable for inviting my brother's murderer without asking me first.

[@nomado.3855]

@ysgramornorris2452 No, It wasn't Sindri, that was Brok, and Brok was the one that suggested the idea first since the All-Fucker already compromised their protection and Kratos refused at first, and of course with a little persuasion from Brok, Atreus and Mimir he complied, and Sindri was more than welcome anyone including the fake Tyr since the real Tyr was a friend of theirs since a long time ago. It's not about permission, it's about family and Sindri more than havin' a brother, he also wanted a family and a big one, reason why he made a lot of rooms for everyone, and don't bring me that ridiculous excuse of put myself in Sindri's shoes, if I were him I would blame myself and the One eyed lunatic than Atreus, everyone but Brok got fooled by that asshole and I would be very pissed at myself for gambling with my brother's soul instead of blaming others and for Odin to seal Brock's fate. Sindri was not justified to blame Kratos and Atreus, he was more to blame than Atreus and everyone and that's the tragic part, because he is unable to let it go.

[@lProN00bl]

@@ysgramornorris2452 The problem with all that is Sindri and Brok were the ones to make Thor's hammer. They are both responsible for incredible destruction to all the realms. So them doing things upgrading weapons and hosting the God's that ultimately were cleaning up their mess.

[@AUG_Glow]

Mate the point of the video is Atreus indirect responsibility for Brok’s death through unintended consequences of wanting to free Tyr based off of limited information Atreus is not a bad person for what happened but saying he does not, even in some way, bear responsibility is wrong

[@seriphim123]

Man… these are some of the most intellectually stimulating videos on the internet. Thank you for taking these stories so seriously and for sharing your observations with such thoughtfulness. It brightens my day.

[@sammcfarlane2494]

I hope Atreus gets his own game or DLC.

[@jesus.M7274]

Yea you’re alone on that one bro

[@SoloEcho]

I hope he doesnt. Let adults make video games and kids stays in school. These loose labor laws if destroying kids life. Pretty soon. Teens be back in the working force as full time.

[@sammcfarlane2494]

@ maybe he’ll be an adult the next time we see him.

[@brogoyle]

@@SoloEcho ????? what?...

[@nekoboy56]

I hope so too! I loved the atreaus sections because you got to see more of his perspective and got to see him become from BOY to MAN

[@TerryB01]

One more FatBrett and GOW video before the year is out. Thanks Brett.

[@JustinJulian-00]

Also what about the possibility about atreus going to Greece to learn more about his father's side of the family after he find out more stuff about the Giants and the possibility of hearing stories from people who knows who Kratos is and what has he done to contribute to saving them from the tyrannical rule of the gods and also being a general in Sparta and also the possibility of seeing his half-sister since Hades and Persephone are not ruling the underworld anymore that would mean he can have access to Elysium just like Kratos did from chains of olympus after he removed his sins into the Forsaken tree and also Atlas is still holding up the world pillar and also what will the possibility of other humans accessing Elysium as well in order to fix the world pillar so that Atlas doesn't have to hold it up anymore like it's possible since humanity has hope now

[@TerryB01]

@JustinJulian-00 He could meet the left-over Olympians too like Aphrodite and the twins. Hestia could be the leader now. Maybe he can meet the son of the boat captain and he can try to kill Aterus for what his father did to his father. At the ens the two sides can come to peace and that troubling part of Kratos past can be resolved nicely.

[@JustinJulian-00]

@@TerryB01 yeah and also a possibility that atreus could meet the other Greek gods and titans that kratos didn't kill and also one thing to keep in mind is that Kratos only kill the Titans in the past when he brought them back from that time period to the present because don't forget the Titans in the present they are still locked up in tartarus in the present after zeus banished them because for one thing not all the Titans we're even trying to betray zeus to begin with it was only cronos that Zeus should have banished but he just banished the other Titans along with him assuming that they are going to follow him and betray him as well because the only Titan that kratos killed in the present was cronos because don't forget Gaia was once kind and compassionate but she realized that she raised a grandson which is Zeus that is going to banished the other Titans and not just cronos along with them because but if atreus does meet the Titans and hopefully they stay on the same page they could become the new guardians of humankind after Kratos killed off the majority of the Greek gods that are obsessed with power and ruling over mortals except for the ones that are still in hiding like Eros Artemis Aphrodite and some of the other gods that have references to them still being alive but never make a physical appearance because instead of them ruling over mortals they would focus on protecting them from other future threats that are way beyond human even though humanity has hope now they are still going to need some form of protection from beings that are way more powerful than them and atreus will use his idea of change and doing the right thing to put their vendetta against the olympians and kratos down then we can see them becoming actual good guys for the first time and actually doing something selfless for people and helping them thrived instead of doing the most evil heinous and vile things that the Olympians and cronos has done I hope you enjoy my take on this because it gives atreus more things to do than just looking for his family and I really do hope to see Greece again as atreus in the future while Kratos is working for the console repairing the damages that Odin has done and hopefully be off to explore other mythologies like Japanese mythology or Chinese mythology or Aztec mythology or Brazilian mythology or even Cherokee mythology and so much more I hope you agree on my take and the topic that I just talked about what can afford to hear more from you

[@TerryB01]

@JustinJulian-00 That would be neat but unlikely. The Greeks are far too petty to let all that go. If anything maybe some mortals will be given godhood or try to govern themselves without the need of the greek gods. The boat captain's son could become one of the new gods. Maybe the new king of the greek gods. Can you imagine Kratos meeting him again while looking gor Atreus? The whole time he's scared and Kratos is actually protecting him? They can go full circle. Help things end the greek time and region on a good note. Some of the gods can stick around. Hestia and maybe Demeter. Demeter works for a villain of the game actually. Persephone is dead and she's trying to destroy the world because of it.

[@Xehanort10]

31:14 Sad part is that Odin's abuse of Thor had probably been going on for centuries. I think Mimir even says at one point that when Thor was younger Odin used to flat out beat the shit out of him on top of all the putting him down, telling him he was an idiot who should just do what Odin told him, trying to force him to drink again, trying to ruin Thor and Sif's marriage because Sif's trying to get Thor to stand up to him.

[@cybersearcher1041]

I think what I love abt Atreus/Loki is the fact that if he were just a regular kid with a penchant for talking himself into/out of problems, the scale of damage would be way less catastrophic. Unfortunately for him, the kid is also a god. He’s running around the place trying to be responsible/find himself and it’s like the equivalent of a bull in a china shop. Even when that bull tries Reallt really hard to step carefully, things are going to break.

[@jonathan0225]

i don't get the complaint about Loki/Atreus being a yapper. he's his mother's son also, the enlightened giants. Of course he'll have knack for arts and speech. i thought this should have been a given or at least clicked the moment you have met Odin, Tyr/Tyr, Fey, and Angrboda. By extension the murals since GOW 4 implies that they are an expressive group of people.

[@shaderu3402]

Those people already made up their minds to hate Atreus because “hurr durr annoying child the games are dumb now and Kratos went beta,” from what I’ve noticed

[@jonathan0225]

@@shaderu3402 i agree. Theres really no point arguing online abt this stuff. But Always keen to find constructive conversations such as this one.

[@WobblesandBean]

​​@@shaderu3402 I mean, he IS annoying, though. And his VA just isn't carrying the performance. He does things without any thought to the consequences, and look what he did to Sindri because of it. He is selfish and arrogant, I don't care how "realistic" or ubiquitous that is to teenage boys, he's still a very unlikable character.

[@jonathan0225]

@@WobblesandBean for sure. But, he played it very well leaning into his age and level of maturity. that said, I won't fault you on your preference. it is what it is.

[@therecombinant6215]

Father like son. Kratos brute forced the end of the Greek gods. Atreus was able to acquire an army to start twilight of the gods.

[@TheTookinator]

Interesting that early on, Kratos says that intent does not matter, only consequences. But later (somewhere in the 14:00 range), he tells Atreus "consider your intent." I'm not sure whether to take that as a mistake or a new lesson.

[@andrewowens4421]

I think it's more "Intent doesn't matter after the fact". Intent only matters _before_ you make a decision. Your intent can't justify the consequences of actions that have already happened but they can inform what decisions you make beforehand. That's what Kratos was trying to say. What do you intend to do before you do it.

[@WobblesandBean]

​@@andrewowens4421 Kratos would know all about that, wouldn't he.

[@andrewowens4421]

@@WobblesandBean Which is why it's such an important distinction. Kratos knows from experience just how badly you can screw up despite your intentions.

[@Joesmho23]

If you consider your intent you’re thinking about what how you want then you can think to do it. Kratos is very goal oriented dude clearly. Atreus is just chaotic there’s multiple times where I don’t even know wtf he’s even trying to do

[@ricksanchez3695]

​@@andrewowens4421I like this explanation because I also found it interesting that kratos seemed to flip flop on intent mattering

[@marcofioretti6908]

Damn two years later and Sindri it's still making me cry

[@WobblesandBean]

That scene was so cathartic. The entire game, I was getting more and more annoyed with Atreus, and now look where his reckless actions got him. Finally, he has to confront the consequences of those actions, instead of other people for once. Even then, he's not the one dealing with the worst of said consequences, but god it felt good to see Sindri tell Atreus off.

[@DShawnPaytonOffiicial]

On one of the murals depicting Loki's life that Angrboda had, there was a wall with a face, and at the end when Atreus left, the rock wall facing him had a face.

[@vordeseite7273]

Now that I see it...They really are similar. The key difference between them is selfishness and selflessness.

[@SinofSloth6855]

I think it's also telling in his lack of ability to manipulate, that the only time he tricks Thor, is when he gets him distracted by the trials we did the previous game, by noting that KRATOS was able to complete them.

[@Rednite_]

I feel like , if done right, and not like the Ironwood missions. A Atreus/Loki game would be awesome. Specifically in his late teens-early adulthood. Traversing the realms trying to break free from his father's shadow and mistakes. The Son Of The God Of War, talking to animals, shape shifting, great at hunting. I see the perfect nature brute with a soft side.

[@HeartDAlyson]

I'd like to see him end up in Greece, learn about the Ghost of Sparta from others and see who his father was without forcing Kratos to tell it, and the conflict would be the two surviving Sisters of Fate out for revenge. Maybe Apollo hiding as a mortal aiding Loki and teaching him new archery skills. and the lesson for Atreus would be to accept who his father was because its not who he is now, because he learned and grew from the past.

[@Kaijugan]

I know a fanfic that explores this in story form if you’re interested

[@CaaaramelApples]

You’re absolutely right but so many “fans” would hate it because it wouldn’t be a mirror of the Greek saga where angry guy kills without remorse, and “circle button minigame”. I’d love an Atreus focused game, but even if it built off these last two and was damn near perfect, so many of the original trilogy fans would hate bomb it

[@Rednite_]

@@CaaaramelApples exactly, I was thinking that maybe there would be a moment where he would kill a central antagonist, but with no remorse, showing a side of himself that his dad desperately wanted to avoid, a moment kinda like the Heimdall Death moment. Hopefully this would be one of the internal problems Atreus would fight with(not becoming the monster his dad was).

[@Rednite_]

@@Kaijugan would love to read it!

[@pjlusk7774]

It’s extremely funny to put the Platonic ideal of the laconic Spartan (a quality literally named after Sparta!) with such a chatterbox of a son. It also totally makes sense for Atreus/Loki to be paired with Odin in this way. Unlike the Marvel Comics, Loki is much more associated with Odin than he ever is with Thor.

[@kathrynvincent1563]

It’s an interesting dynamic that Atreus is a mixed race character, albeit unlikely at first. And a lot of themes that mixed race/blended cultures kids face is finding themselves in both identities. In Atreus’ case. It’s his godly Spartan side from Kratos and his Norse Giant side from Faye. Faye was the only firsthand source of Giant culture and unfortunately cannot pass most of her knowledge. Kratos, while trying to protect Atreus, accidentally downplays his Giant side by insisting he is only Atreus. And I can attest from personal experience, as well intentioned, it stings having a family member belittle part of your identity when you have to put it together secondhand and never get full answers. But Kratos figured it out how to cope and support the part of his son he has no tie to, and Atreus carries the lessons Kratos taught him.

[@everettenjeze6276]

It’s crazy how different Atreus is from his Dad kratos. Kratos is so stoic, strong, and disciplined while Atreus is free spirited, relaxed, and has this high schooler cool kid attitude to him. But at the same time they are similar as they want to help others and protect their own. I love their father son dynamic because most sons are different from their fathers but at the same time the same as their father in certain areas.

[@sethbradshaw6791]

Today is a good day this is my favorite series on youtube

[@thewarminator]

Building a star wars lego set while listening to this

[@drewrichmond2964]

Can you make some ghost of Tsushima videos

[@noemifarkas1813]

Even Faye mentions Odin regarding her son in GOW: Lore&Legends. Boi was trying to reach out with his mind (I guess his empathy power) to Faye when she seemed upset, and then she asked: “Are you Odin’s spy?” Maybe it was just a silly question, and I don’t know if Faye had already seen Atreus’ future at that time, but there’s a chance that she knew what her kid could become🤯

[@player_lv430]

I've learned more about storywriting and character design from this channel than I did in school.

[@MiloStephant]

I don't think there's ever really been a case in history of Atreus 'screwing up' anything, in any kind of circumstances, but rather aligning all the pawns on the chessboard in an almost providential way. Think about it for a second. Atreus went to free Fenrir. What saved everyone at the end of Ragnarok? That's right, Fenrir. Atreus, by freeing Tyr, led all events to Brok's death. What destroyed Odin at the end of Ragnarok? That's right, Sindri, who wants to avenge Brok. And those aren't the only examples. What allows Thor to rebel against his father? It's also Atreus, for whom Kratos was ready to "become better", and who then offered Thor the example. In my opinion, Atreus was the real hero of Ragnarok, because it was his presence or his actions that ensured that everything unfolded in such a way as to favour the destruction of Odin and the elevation of his father to the rank of God of War in the Nordic Pantheon. He is the real MVP.

[@WobblesandBean]

No he's not. He's a little pissant who causes immense suffering to others everywhere he goes. You can't possibly give him credit for Sindri's triumph over Odin, that's...just, no. 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@MiloStephant]

You're not convinced, are you? All right then, let's go through Atreus' exploits again together: the only reason Ragnarok happened was because Heimdall was planning to kill Atreus, which, because Kratos was trying to find his son, was repeated to him by the Norns. After that, when Kratos actually had to face Heimdall, and defeated him, it was because Kratos was worried about his son that Heimdall decided to continue the fight despite the certainty that he would not survive. This allowed Heimdall's conch shell to end up in Kratos' hands. And that opened the door to Ragnarok. I could make a powerful list about Atreus' undeniably life-saving narrative presence on every level, but anyway, you don't seem to understand the real dynamics of a story. What matters isn't the immediate impression a character gives you, but how their actions, words, and presence of mind move the narrative as a whole. You're thinking too small, and that's what's preventing you from seeing that it was obviously Atreus who carried Kratos' entire team to victory.

[@tomnason270]

Liked before i watched because i know itll be that good

[@RedEveTillDawn]

I played this game with my roommate when it first came out and I was soooooo excited to play as Atreus! He's probably my favorite character.. I'm excited to see where he will go in hopefully the finale of the trilogy!

[@Grz349]

32:12 Atreus’s manipulations don’t fail on Thor just because he’s young, both times they fail because of an outside influence on Thor, Odin then Sif. Also I think what Atreus learned from Thor was about how to trust in his own abilities, Atreus isn’t ready for the large scale fights or decisions yet, but on a smaller scale he can take are of himself.

[@DUBengar]

Yessssss now i can rake the yard all day and listen to peak

[@iambadatgames06]

Greatest post Christmas gift ever

[@justinalicea1590]

9:14 I know this is a video on Atreus, but I want to note how Kratos's line is reflected later at Heimdall's death: "Intent does not matter. Only consequences." This is exactly how prophecy is told to work by the Norns: your actions are predictable, and so it does not matter why things will happen. Only that they will. Kratos is predicted to kill Heimdall, and regardless of intent, he does so. Now back to the focus character, this is likely why Atreus feels such a weight on him. He clearly defies that idea that only the consequences matter. He leans heavily on the idea that his intentions will make up for what happens, which ultimately is broken by the death of Brok. At the same time, we also see Kratos opening up to focusing on intentions over consequence, choosing actions based on what he hopes to happen rather than what will likely happen. Such as trying to spare the Midgarians who were placed as a meatshield against Ragnarok. Despite the manipulation not working, I still love how Atreus gets one win over Thor in the arguments department by pointing out how Kratos and Odin, who are vastly different people, can be simplified into the same archetype that they both live under. Even Thor can't argue against that.

[@danielferrieri7434]

Atreus should a get centered around him and Angrboda searching for the giants.

[@bli2z4rd]

Yeah I always thought he was similar to Odin. Loki being the god of deceit and Odin using this as his main weapon of choice always made me think they are very close in some way

[@AeroZephron]

I think the third game is going to have a lot to do with that mask. I think they are setting up Atreus to charge into finding the mask, using it and being corrupted by it somehow, turning him into the actual Loki. Maybe a Jekyll and Hyde situation - like his transformations into the bear - something he can do, but doesn't control and probably splits his personality between a violent persona and the person we know. I don't think he'll be a true Antagonist to Kratos, but he's probably the reason we end up in other pantheons, fighting other gods. It makes the most sense, since anything else would probably be a hard reset to the story.

[@quintonthorne3330]

Been loving going back and watching your....video essays on God of War. Spectatular work. Glad that you are continuing with it.

[@darklordoffirex7777]

7:58. Watching that part agian. The surprise so quickly turned to fear. "Oh god. Did i do it again? Did i acadently kill the only family iv ever loved? My brother, my wife, my daughter? my...........son?" This scene did not have enough time to cook

[@TimeCircleBlue]

No it didn’t, but I can’t think of a good way to draw it out. But the fear and frustration FROM that split second moment carries over into the ensuing argument.

[@Dookieman1975]

I’d say him learning that his dads lessons of closing his heart to suffering during Ragnorok is another important lesson in his arc. Namely him being so eager to fight against a dictator and then seeing how horrible war is. He’s heard all the terrible tales from the adults but nothing could’ve prepared him for how brutal Ragnorok was when citizens got in the crossfire. And how he should’ve listened to his instincts of wanting to get them out of there mid fight and look for a way to avoid the innocents

[@DanteBrian]

I get that Atreus screwed up, but it makes me mad that Sindri never accepts his role in Brock’s fate-he’s the reason Brock’s soul isn’t complete after all. He can be mad at Atreus all he wants, but he should be mad at himself.

[@t-rexcellentreviews1663]

He is, you can see the self loathing Sindri has for himself near the end of the game.

[@boingthegoat7764]

I think Sindri is angry at himself, but he's so angry at himself that he can't handle it, so he's displacing it. This is very Psych 101 of course, but I have a snaking suspicion that the accident that originally killed Brok, was Sindri's fault (or at least he thinks it was). Taking a few intuitive leaps, I theorize that carelessness on his part caused Brok's original death, and he was so horrified with himself that he tried to fix it by resurrecting Brok (as best he could) and by over-correcting into absolute fastidiousness. And once Brok finally dies for keeps, it just all comes unravelled for him.

[@DarkWanderer666]

Nice holiday gift!

[@samwhary5498]

As someone who has manipulated others into doing things that would be better for themselves and others, i can confirm that intention is very important when you're trying to manipulate.

[@misteraskman3668]

In norse mythology, both Loki and Odin are shockingly similar, most notably in that they are both trickster deities that do a lot of traveling (Odin by himself and Loki with Thor). When Tacitus wrote the Germania, he noted that this Norse people worshiped a pantheon leaded by Mercury, based on his trickery and frecuent traveling, but trickery is a little bit more associated with Loki than Odin (his thing is knowledge). Maybe the nature of both gods is so interlinked (although not obvious at first glance) that when you write them, this themes will often arise. And I think that is really cool.

[@ChiefBarnesArt]

6:51: this is apart of the Norse theme. Norse gods talk a lot atresus is no exception. I mean all Norse gods talk alots.

[@Galexiie]

Your channel is severely underrated. These videos are amazing

[@shadeblackwolf1508]

Loki classically is a trickster, who manipulates the Aesir into a civil war. It's kinda part of the job description. If he picks up his dad's lessons to not care, he'll become Odin 2.0

[@pixelgoat7317]

22:34 I was so happy to see Atreus revive and rescue the big scaly noodle

[@shadquirk607]

Chaos, Atreus is one of the best embodiments of chaos in media because it's so subtle and nuanced. A simpler 'god of chaos' would look like the joker, which is fine, but he understood what he was, a being of pure chaos would have no clue, like a child.

[@Harrison_big_lad]

This channel is making my hospital time so much easier

[@DShawnPaytonOffiicial]

I was rewatching your Fake Tyr video when this dropped, thank you for making my plasma donation go smoothly!

[@Apoiios_]

I love your GOW series. I keep appraciating this game even more, every time I think i can't

[@Korricat]

I wanna thank you for making these videos! I got hooked on learning and nodding in agreement so much

[@kazekamiha]

"And he never shuts up..." So... he's a teenager then?

[@thatguya967]

30:19 there’s a part where you can meet Hiemdal in the cafeteria and he tries to read Atreus but can’t figure him out. He says how he himself is confused and he doesn’t even know what he’s doing.

[@MadPotato0345]

Love the god of war stuff, ive been wondering what your thoughts are on RDR2, i think theres alot to unpack with dutch and arthurs story

[@gem9535]

I've watched... so many of your videos, but the Sindri scene gets me every time.

[@abrogee]

That line Sindri says about how 'there is no we, there's only you, no matter what the cost.' it's meant to be hurtful but truthful at the same time, as for the entire story, Atreus has used the people around him to his own benefit regardless of the consequences and not giving much of anything in return. It's similar to how people would give offerings, sacrifices, prayers etc. to receive the god's blessings.This would indicate that Atreus is still a bad god as he takes without giving and does it for himself. Brok's death and the loss of their relationship with Sindri is a very clear indication that the ends don't justify the means or the cost of those actions from Atreus' perspective however though it is too late, his lack of insight into the consequences of his actions leads him to lose something he didn't want to lose all whilst acting only on his own selfish needs without consideration for others or the consequences it could have on them.

[@kingofmadamax]

The worst part on being all caught up on your vids is that I have to wait for new drops. The best part is the joy I feel when you drop a new vid 😂🖤

[@moldock40k]

I like listening to atreus monologue on the way to freya and climbing the wall. Each time he tries to plan out what he is doing and realizes he has no idea lol

[@ryu551]

My weekend is made 😌

[@87rabbitsproductions71]

I do see a lot of Kratos in Atreus. Whenever Kratos got the smallest hint of something that would lead to a result he thought he wanted, he sought it out without giving much thought to the consequences. ‘I need to kill this barbarian leader, I’ll pledge myself to Aries’. ‘I need to face the Fates to undo my fate and fight Zeus’. ‘The gods stand in my way, I’ll cut them down to get to my goal’.

[@Mr.BrokenRecord]

Ayyy, Fatbrett uploaded. Sadly, I'll have to watch this later.

[@martinc8965]

until a certain playthrough, I get the feeling that Odin always knew where the pieces of the mask were, but he pretended that he did not know where they were (despite the fact that you only have to go kingdom by kingdom until the mask lights up) in order to feed Atreus' need to prove what he is worth. And to be honest, I support from the beginning his idea of making a war against Asgard, I mean... They are tyrants who if someone did not put a stop to them, they would continue to do harm, postponing the inevitable. Kratos says it's not the only way, but in a war, it's also not the only way to fight one killing innocent people along the way, we saw that in this game, I guess he thought that way because of his past and maybe because of a trauma. But with people like Odin, you just can't make a peace treaty even if you try.

[@arthurbartolomeu247]

Last video about gow 4 and "5"? nooooo... Oh wait, videos about past games? Hell yeah brother, let's gooooo

[@jtfbreedlove]

My Vote for the setting of the first "God of Stories" game, the Mahabarata, more or less.

[@Aschwartz14]

I’m surprised he didn’t bring up the choice to destroy the mask. That’s where I thought his growth as a character ended.

[@vezokpiraka]

It's good that Atreus can learn these lessons while being guided by older people who made the same mistakes and lead to way worse endings. Kratos' story is basically mistake after mistake, because his only teacher was might makes right. Freya's mistakes led to the death of her son as well as her realm being kinda destroyed. Atreus' mistakes lead to the death of the brother of his best friend. Which is bad for a human, but way way less than what Gods are capable of. So even in this terrible situation, Atreus was allowed to grow as a character and human, because his mentors prevented the worst mistakes he could have made.

[@gaelofariandel6747]

I REALLY hope you start covering some of the Resident Evil characters in the future.

[@CGR1410]

Atreus is positive curiosity, Odin is negative curiosity. Atreus wanted to find the giants to help with his internal identity and to have power over himself, something kratos teaches. Odin wanted to find the giants for his external identity and power over the realms, something kratos destroys.

[@Blackwing_Earth-2_]

So in other words, Atreus is a twister of words like Loki?

[@triadwarfare]

This is a carefully crafted story. I don't care what people say that the story was rushed and this could have been a trilogy, the boss fights could have been more grand than the first, or whatever BS. You show that every dialogue, every plot point, and every mistake has a purpose and "overanalyzing" has its merits even if people think Atreus is annoying and the whole section of Angrboda should have been cut from the game and the cut content about Atreus manipulating Sinmara should have been restored and made canon, even if it was evil for Loki to do so.

[@Darksword-786]

I really hope Atreus gets his own set of games, which follow him travelling to other lands and interacting with other pantheons. I want to see his character truly grow, but who knows what the future holds.

[@notDelTaco]

THANK YOU! I NOW HAVE SOMETHING TO LISTEN TO ON MY WAY TO WORK

[@Dashi26]

Some spins out there say that Atreus is Odins son because some of the shrines show Faye in Asgard talking to Odin. So Odin without a doubt knows who Faye is. Also, the weapons that are in the grand hall that are mounted in Asgard are from Jotunheim, now those were either given by Faye or Odin took them. But how would have Odin taken them when Odin has spent literally only minutes in Jotunheim because Freya expelled Odin and Thor almost immediately when she saw what Odin was up to when they were there. And that's when the giants and Týr hid the Jotunheim tower. I think Faye gifted those to Odin. I'm not saying this spin is 100% but it definitely makes a lot of sense. Check out some of the shrines, it clearly shows Faye and Odin in Asgard. I'm so surprised why Atreus never mentioned it nor Kratos. Maybe they saw it and just didn't say anything to each other? Mimir is definitely, definitely hiding stories about Faye from Kratos. He's the smartest man alive right? So he would have for sure known an important figure like Faye, right? especially since she fought Thor in Vanahiem. You think Thor went back to Asgard and never mentioned Faye? Shit, Thor knew her too but why does Thor never mention her (weird). Remember, Mimir said he knows every war, every deal struck , every corner blah blah etc etc.. Not only does Minir know Faye but he also knows about her and her background and knows her personally, without a single doubt and on a 1st name basis at that (Hi Minmir, hey Faye) and he knows that Odin is Atreus' father (possibly). Shit, after its all said and done and after you beat the game, in Vanahiem in the crater section, Freya openly admits, she remembers Faye that she knew Faye and knew her well and was shocked to find out that Faye was Kratos' wife and Atreus' mom (I wonder why?) and that time, she was married to Odin. Because Faye was traveling to Asgard. I'm Telling you, Odin and Atreus have more in common than the games story tells. There's waaaaay more to this story that's untold. Atreus is more like Odin than he is Kratos. After all, Atreus is only a quarter God and half Giant but has the abilites of a full God? He still has yet to reach his full God hood. 🤔

[@ari4918]

"sometimes he gets his way though with unforseen consquences" so the G man was behind all of this...

[@JeSsE10mCcOy11]

Christmas season keeps on giving

[@pangtrilby9286]

FINALLY somebody's noticed this! I thought I was delusional seeing paralels between Kratos and Atreus and Odin and Thor where the paralel is Atreus is like Odin and Kratos is like Thor, where we can see how their nature can be expressed healthy (Kratos, Atreus) and sick (Odin, Thor) , its almost like looking at dark AU where abusive parent is Atreus and abused child is Kratos

[@ethan-not-a-pastafarian]

“The Shadow of Odin” is way too epic not to use- hope you don’t mind seeing it in other things, because I’d definitely jump on that wagon

[@daydreaminavenue]

In Ragnarok, Atreus is only 15 years old, which reminds me of my own reckless decisions at that age. I still make mistakes sometimes, but some mistakes can't be fixed. Eventually, you have to be strong enough to take accountability for your actions.

[@maxleroux]

Honestly, the fact that Odin already knew that Atreus was searching for Týr should have been a huge red flag for him. A con only works when the mark wants to believe it. 🧐

[@lProN00bl]

Think saying Atreus was being manipulative with Kratos is a bit harsh. While to Kratos he may feel like by asking vague questions like "consider your intent" is guidance, to Atreus it feels like anger and criticism that will only abate if he says the right thing. Because Kratos isn't very open at this point to other options. So it results in Atreus beating around the bush because he doesn't know how to explain what he wants without seeming to disappoint his dad. Kratos being overbearing and critical is it's own kind of manipulation. Even if he uses fewer words.

[@VioletTheGhost2]

34:56 yeah you showed it a dozen times and THIS SCENE DOESN'T GET ANY EASIER TO WATCH IF ONLY WORSE. The amount of emotion in that scene is just flawless and gets me crying every time

[@nicholaslewis6182]

Thanks for you analysis and insight. You’ve awakened me to a couple of thoughts I hadn’t been able to parse myself and why I prefer the original series to this newer version. I’ve always felt like in the original series character development was done through reflection. You’re asked to look at Kratos’ actions then commit them and ask yourself why “I” behaved this way. Was I righteous? These newer stories felt like a guided tour telling you what to feel and how to respond. It felt like lost agency. This is not to say I didn’t like these newer games. Thanks for helping me work that out and telling a great story!

[@masterspork3735]

I don't know if you said this in the Kratos video, but I expected the conversation the two has in Ragnorok, about "opening your heart" to know what Atreus wants in life to be brought up. And that deals more with grief, because Atreus was incomplete without his mother in his life, and it was Kratos who could bring that side back to him, not Atreus himself.

[@masterspork3735]

This is also Atreus learning how to change fate, because when Heimdall rebuts Atreus saying "I help people", while that is a side of him, it hasn't been his full intention, and his actions have been to serve himself, his curiosity.

[@ThePlatinumKush]

Happy holidays FatBrett! Thanks for the gift! Lol

[@Technovex]

Been looking forward to this one

[@nocoolnamejimxx5084]

Good god Atreus was indeed annoying and this video touches on a number of the reasons. 1. He does screw things up CONSTANTLY but throughout most of the game, never suffers any consequences from doing so. His smirking "I thrive better on chaos!" approach wouldn't actually WORK if he wasn't constantly being bailed out by the grown ups around him. But HE thinks he's incredible because things do EVENTUALLY always work out for him until Brok. He's a little shit with plot armor who thinks he's awesome as a result of that armor. 2. He does Never. Shut. Up. This particularly shows up because his scenes - and therefore having to deal with his cocky, arrogant, whiny, teenage personality - goes on FOREVER. I really don't need THREE HOURS of him flirting with Angrboda. 3. Not mentioned, but his combat scenes are awful to play from a Gameplay perspective, particularly on higher difficulties, because of how woefully weak he is in actual combat. I so...so...SO hope that the next game is not centered around him. I couldn't stand it every time the game switched to him.

[@Millanno37]

Awwwww what a good Christmas gift, thank you 😊

[@kwameu2901]

Found your channel this year brodie and I’m extremely grateful for the time you put into these video essays! I am curious though, how much of Atreus attitude isn’t him being mini Odin but him desiring to be a “liked by all” teenager? I know his natural arc is to be a trickster/master manipulator but I think he just wants to be loved and appreciated by all his comes across. I would dare say he’s still trying to be like his dad (the new versions of Kratos).

[@sytmor]

I need more gow video essays pls keep them coming ❤

[@LordJord001]

It seems to me that Atreus thinks he can convince and persuade people around him to help him in his goal. It's not as serious as when Odin does it, I think because Odin will lie to get his way, whereas Atreus speaks some of the truth while hiding as much as he can. A bit like Odin

[@shadeblackwolf1508]

I think Atreus should have stuck to the apology line, instead of blameshifting. If he had stuck to it, there might be something to fix with sindri when his emotional storm passes, instead, by moving to blameshifting, he invalidates his earlier apology. This is a man who just has to take time to settle his emotions, now is not the time to push anything.

[@obolstudios5154]

Loki: “you killed the giants!” Thor: “lmao they deserved it”