Fate Lore - Projection Magecraft Explained

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[@loverofjesusMKII]

Fate lore: "Emiya's projection cannot reproduce modern weaponry" Emiya Alter: "This sign can't stop me because I wont read the VN"

[@TheObserver1221]

loverofjesusMKII remember reading somewhere that Emiya alters guns are actually the swords but twisted and reshaped in a way that they imitate the use of a gun, but are still technically swords. So technically he’s using swords, shaped as guns, to shoot swords. #fatelogic

[@Gogetossj50]

@@TheObserver1221 Just so you know Fatelogic is the pseudonym of a porn artist.

[@Mayke0077]

@@Gogetossj50 Bullshit, Nasuverse lore can be complicated but if you want some logic, you will find plenty of it.

[@fantasyconnect]

@@Mayke0077 Whaaaaattt?

[@yurineri2227]

@@Mayke0077 not always, like, what's the logic in sword guns

[@pattdiy4283]

And never forget EMIYA managed to take away 6 lives from Heracles in the fate route before going out.

[@sirapple2406]

and that was without knowing who he himself was for a part of that fight.

[@ayaannair2447]

Didn’t Heracles have a skill that wouldn’t let the same attack work on him twice? Makes it crazier when you consider that not even Gilgamesh’s chains were exempt from that rule. So basically emiya killed him with different weapons each of the six times

[@sirapple2406]

@@ayaannair2447 Then how did shirou kill him in heavens's feel.

[@Fadelz]

@@sirapple2406 dint Shirou specifically traced nine lives blade works to strike herc in a single second?

[@sirapple2406]

@@Fadelz That is what i’m talking about. Herc stil had multiple lives at that point.

[@DANSTER999]

Then you remember that Archer in the Extraverse is capable of CASUALLY Tracing Excalibur

[@umu-san4414]

Yeah, but he has a different projection parameter than Fsn Archer. Nameless can only trace up to A rank weapons, but he can trace divine weapons with the owners permission (even past A). Emiya can trace any rank with the only limit being his rank nerf (can't bypass with broken phantasm) and divine weapons which can destroy him.

[@BNF5005]

@@umu-san4414 Just a little nitpick. He actually CAN bypass the rank nerf with broken phantasms. It's been EXPLICITLY stated in the Side Materials. Read Archer's page on the Type Moon Wiki. It takes into consideration all the statements made by Nasu, the side materials and the VN. His projections are one rank lower than the original and the Broken Phantasm mechanic basically allows him to RAISE the weapon's rank by one, bypassing the rank nerf and making the projected Noble Phantasm just as strong as the original. He achieves this by applying reinforcement to his projections and filling them with magical energy. The result is an unstable creation that will detonate on first impact causing a large explosion(such as Caladbolg 2). This is a trump card that is available ONLY TO ARCHER since he can project the same weapon as many times as his magical energy allows. Also, Extraverse Archer has THE EXACT SAME PROJECTION RANK AS FSN ARCHER. It's just that inside the Mooncell he can create a degraded excalibur call EXCALIBUR IMAGE. FSN Archer can also create an imperfect copy of Excalibur with the drawback that he'll be killed after using it.

[@umu-san4414]

@@BNF5005 the can't was a typo. I thanks for making me notice.

[@umu-san4414]

@@Error-xk6we well Miyu's Shirou isn't just a more proper mage. He's also burning away his humanity (like Heaven's Feel Shirou) throughout the story. He also gets support from both Heroic Spirit Emiya and Miyu during the movie. It seems like Emiya's inability to use Excalibur without damage is more of a lack of understanding (and the fact that it is an exclusive sword to Artoria) than lack actual ability on his tracing. Shirou can copy a perfect Avalon and a decent Caliburn, but they won't work unless Artoria uses them.

[@faith4657]

@@umu-san4414 what didn't know so nameless can project divine constructs

[@hydrasfang]

I have to say Archer seems pretty interesting and I would watch a "why archer is stronger than you think" video.

[@HaloForgeUltra]

Well if you think about it, he's basically overwriting reality itself, he's just a hacker, a really good hacker.

[@truekurayami]

@@HaloForgeUltra It's more he was given SysAdmin powers when he became a Counter Force Guardian.

[@themadmystic1688]

Mages throughout history "Projection is basically a useless thing we only practice to control our output." Shirou Emiya "Imma fight servants with it"

[@adudewithquestionabletaste4851]

archer was basically fighting gods with it gilgamesh, hercules, medusa and lancer(i forgot his real name) he is also a half god

[@benduford3746]

@@adudewithquestionabletaste4851 lancer’s true name is Cu Chulainn alternately known as Sétanta but Cu Chulainn is more well known

[@adudewithquestionabletaste4851]

@@benduford3746 thanks for the info :)

[@AnNguyen-es4kx]

Same thing can be said with the Ainsworth''s flash air really

[@spiritvdc5109]

@@AnNguyen-es4kx What is it with the mage community in Fate looking at the most broken magical disciplines ever created (spatial manipulation, object creation) and going "Naaaaaah das useless, imma shoot bugs out of my eyes instead"

[@tsukishiro6769]

Let's not forget how Archer also bootlegged a super expensive fishing rod with projection.

[@e-tan3911]

@@jkosch bit late here, but don't forget Cu extorted that rod from Shinji. Technically Gil was the only one who got his legally...

[@e-tan3911]

@@jkosch come on, he is basically stuck living with a terrible grandfather and a sister who now rules the house like a tyrant(granted, it's his fault entirely, but she is legitimately terrifying with her magic) and the docks were his only escape. Cut the dude at least a little bt of slack, especially since he seems to be improving his actions in the events of HA...

[@e-tan3911]

@@jkosch yeah, its his fault, but I would still at least give him SOME escape from that hell... Also, it is apparently at least somewhat worse than just getting bossed around, considering his fear of her...

[@castergilgamesh1778]

@@e-tan3911 I obeyed the law for once

[@mochii813]

@@e-tan3911 This is legitimately hilarious to me considering how Gil usually is

[@mohammedwaked6768]

A “archer is stronger than u think” video would be sick 😍

[@millennial_weeb2382]

Bruh.. DON’T SLEEP ON EMIYA xD

[@phoenixag196]

5:37 Imagine Robin Hood shooting Excalibur Galatine from his bow lol. Suddenly Yew Bow's insane dmg makes sense...

[@chiiiiie5608]

and instead of poison damage it now comes with a mini sun

[@MrJostur]

Endlessly refining your strengths, consideration for battle tactics from analysis and experience, and making your weakness into your greatest strength. GARcher indeed.

[@myrasoonge]

The reason I never took much stock into "Projection is basically useless" is because for one that's what so many said about Kiritsugu being a mediocre mage and he schooled the pants of so many prominent fighters as well as the fact that if you masterfully own a skill or spell, you can guarantee you will whoop ass at it.

[@KeiosKod]

See, from what I’ve read, that’s not the point of being a mage. Kiritsugu is an excellent mage-killer. He’s an excellent killer period. But that’s different from being an excellent mage, since if we try to understand what a mage is through what exactly the majority of them are doing, then a mage is someone pursuing some higher mystery and understanding of how reality works. The combat effectiveness is just a nice benefit to tinkering with reality.

[@1rotzy]

KeiosKod I gotta agree with you here. Magi are magical scientists that have spent generations into studying their specific craft to get to the Root. Hell, Kiritsugu’s dad believed that the best way to get to the root is to time travel to the beginning of everything. Kiritsugu on the other hand, is seen as a heretic. Because, while he may be able to use magecraft, he doesn’t because, “it’s faster if I use a gun.” So while magi may be able to fight with their magecraft, they aren’t very good at it unless they go out of their way to learn how to fight. Like the Executors of the Church, or the Enforcers. Otherwise, they will just spend their entire life time experimenting, make a kid to pass their information down, and die.

[@LaysshoClips]

Shirou's ability to use projection is less about skill and more so the result of his origin. Without his origin all of his feats would be impossibly without the aid of true magic or something similar to it.

[@namoma4922]

@@KeiosKod Yep The spells he actually uses are pretty simple but very effective Time manipulation is op but I get the feeling that on pure magecraft level he could have gone further(no need though)

[@James35142]

You're just wrong here. Shirou's projections are not the same as the projections that other mages can use. When Shirou sees a weapon, he can make a pretty accurate record of pretty much every aspect of it, which is then stored in his reality marble, Unlimited Blade Works. Normal weapons are slightly weaker and Noble Phantasms are down an entire rank because he can't get all the information about it through sight alone. That is the only downside to his projections. This is because his elemental affinity and origin are both sword. Normal projections are completely useless in a fight because normal mages can only project an image in their mind, so even if they project the same thing Shirou does, his will be superior due to his ability to project an accurate recreation of an actual sword, rather than just magical energy that looks like a sword. Kiritsugu is a talented mage killer because he understands how mages think and he has a mystic code that is made into a bullet which will pretty much destroy a person's magic circuits, which will leave them unable to use magecraft and they will probably be crippled.

[@michaelmurray8134]

I say projection Magic is pretty much the most flexible and versatile Mage craft in existence. Although useless for those who are looking for power it's perfect for those who would excel at creativity. And I also think it's the perfect type of magic for an Archer, given that it can forge almost any weapon the drawback being that it breaks apart either after usage or a set time limit, an Archer can literally have unlimited arrows that they can customize to almost anything.

[@wolffang489]

It's only good if you have an aptitude for it or near infinite mana. For normal mages the cost to project is just too high for the temporary mundane tool you get. An infinite number of ultra brittle arrows will have little effect against a mages bounded field, and the projecting mage will just drain them self empty trying. Although I imagine another steel element mage could produce projections with a similar ease to Shirou, even if they can't do the tracing part for lack of the Sword origin.

[@James35142]

Only Archer and Shirou can make projections that will be useful in a fight. Unlimited Blade Works gives them the ability to create a record of a weapon, store it in Unlimited Blade Works, and then bring it out with projection magic. Normal mages use projections that are just magical energy made to look like something, whereas Shirou and Archer project accurate recreations of actual weapons.

[@delphynenull2136]

Technically Rho Aias only works as an impregnable defense against thrown weapons specifically, not all projectiles, and it only consumes such an outrageous amount of mana because “shields” are considered an opposite of sorts to “swords,” so Shirou can’t reproduce them as easily because of his unique “Sword” origin. Particularly Shirou’s tracing is busted because if he’s creating an item without a particularly high degree of Mystery, like an ordinary knife instead of a noble phantasm, it lasts pretty much indefinitely. And since he can reproduce weapons multiple times, he can utilize all of them as Broken Phantasms, bypassing the one-rank downgrade affected upon them by Trace’s reproduction.

[@MrYoyoshi9]

Rho aias concept works against projectiles in general. Also It's said that shields cost more to project than swords but on top of that Rho aias needs a constant flow of mana to be mantained making it even more difficult to use. Everything he projects last pretty much forever even NP.

[@SemiOmni314]

As Como Sea C's said, everything he makes last pretty much forever, until he either dismisses them or his image of them doesn't hold up to reality (ie projecting Kanshou and Bakuya, believing them to be unbreakable, and a magically reinforced teacher breaks them) Also, about Rho Aias, it's stronger than you think. HEAVEN'S FEEL SPOILERS Saber Alter's Excalibur Morgan didn't even pierce a layer of Shirou's 4-petaled Rho Aias

[@aldeberan6181]

+Sleepy Scarecrow Productions I find it odd that Rho Aius, as well as other shields, are referred to as 'costly' when at most, the shield costs about 15 units of magical energy. Which, while high, shouldn't mean much in the long run considering Archer's amount.

[@aldeberan6181]

@@SemiOmni314 It gets even more ridiculous when the original version of the shield was claimed to be ''comparable'' to Achilles shield. More specifically, it uses a word that means "match/rival". 『熾天覆う七つの円環(ロー・アイアス)』に匹敵する防具系の結界宝具。 It uses 匹敵する/hitteki suru 匹敵を英語で・英訳 - 英和辞典・和英辞典 Weblio辞書 ejje.weblio.jp/content/匹敵 "be a match for" "match" "rival"

[@SemiOmni314]

@@aldeberan6181 I never did get that. I know it says that they're comparable, but Aias is a normal shield that's an absolute defense against projectiles, while Akhilleus Kosmos is a divine construct that protects against anything that's not anti-world

[@faresdadi9263]

I was wondering about this old theorycraft that I saw on spacebattles It was about how magecraft worked essentially (A magus would send out a command to the foundation through a spell, which would then illegaly take gaia resources to enact that specific spell. And the punishment for that would be prana) And how theoretically, Shirou's UBW shouldn't be connected to gaia, and seeing as how in Fate/Extra, despite the disaster that killed gaia, and therefore the foundation, but Shirou was able to continue using his magecraft. Which means that UBW does acts as Shirou's own foundation.

[@jakewoodhouse9817]

UBW acting as a foundation makes sense as physics in the nasuverse are defined and maintained by Gaia's reality marble. By this logic, anyone with a reality marble that they manifested fully could use it as their own foundation.

[@valdr2286]

Please do archer is stronger than you think

[@ryuhayabusa2215]

I second that notion

[@ajtallent4501]

He'll yeah!

[@atpr3241]

People either wank the bone of his sword too hard or make him seem lower-tier. He's a B-tier servant imo

[@valdr2286]

@@atpr3241 B+

[@ryuhayabusa2215]

@@atpr3241 B- A-

[@darakkriess1030]

It’s because he might be a descendant of Muramasa which kinda adds on to the affinity with the sword thing

[@richardberglund2]

The main reason is Avalon though. Since it’s said he had another origin before being saved by Kiritsugu

[@SUPERSIDESWIPER]

That's a big might.

[@darakkriess1030]

SUPERSIDESWIPER it’s is but he’s a fictional character so it only takes a stroke of the pen to make it possible which is a reason they put that teaser lol

[@matryxgeounlymyted56quarde9]

@@richardberglund2 - His original Origin may have been Blacksmithing, particularly and specifically, Weapon Smithing, in that Shirou Emiya can and could create any tool and weapon that he personally wants to and that could also be at his disposal. It's just that the Fourth Holy Grail War and the Fuyuki Fire and Avalon, changed his original Origin that was Blacksmithing to Weapon Smithing, particularly and specifically, that of and/or to Sword Smithing overall.

[@goldenbrigain7031]

@@matryxgeounlymyted56quarde9 how do you fucking change an origin? that's given by the root, what kind of shit are faeries into just touching their shit can fuck you up that bad?

[@muhammadnuryusof7287]

multiple process to cast a "Trace On" Trace multiple weapons at once "Average heroic spirit" my ass

[@KeiosKod]

Well, consider it as high skill floor, low payoff. Emiya’s Reality Marble has its used, but it’s Emiya’s skill and ingenuity that makes it so useful.

[@Mr.Monacle]

I mean... It should be noted that all of his actual stats are pretty much garbage. And that's with Rin as his master, basically giving him his highest stats possible. The only reason he was able to keep up with Mr Gae Bulg is because Minds Eye (True) is broken in single combat.

[@100pwndragons]

the fact that archer could learn the true names of all servants if they possessed something related to a sword is insane

[@uniquename6925]

I wonder if it would be possible to reinforce a projection..

[@ObiC]

That’s literally what archer does

[@ObiC]

Get Banned Yea pretty much

[@dhirenchetty2554]

@Get Banned actually a broken phantasm is just a noble phantasm with alot of magical energy poured into it, which raises the rank of the NP by 1 but destroys it. Any servant can do this but they wouldn't because they would lose their weapon whereas archer can since he can then readily reproduce the weapon again using projection. This allows his weapons to be on par with the original since protection decreases the rank of a weapon by 1 but then using it as a broken phantasm increases it by 1, getting it back to its original rank.

[@nomanhand]

@Get Banned nah an example would be kanshou and bakuya overedge

[@SUPERSIDESWIPER]

Yes it's possible to strengthen a projection, it's just that normally it's inefficient because a normal projection (i.e. one that doesn't have UBW as part of it) is usually next to worthless as your just forming an object that looks like the original out of pure magical energy, effectively creating a fancy paper weight. Shirou's Projection and Strengthening are fundamentally different from regular Projection and Strengthening because there actually an extension of Unlimited Blade Works. Projection for Shirou and Archer is actually just Shirou taking the object out of Unlimited Blade Works into reality and his Strengthening is meant for modding the resulting weapon.

[@Randomguy-tb4lp]

I wonder in the ubw anime close to the end of the fight with gilgamesh when roh ais is used and looks to only be partialy projected if that was shirou attempt to replacate archers roh ais

[@Niccogamer01]

I think that the magic of projections is one of the oldest and most powerful magecraft that I have seen in my life. Even Merlin has used it to create a copy with the same strength as Excalibur in Fate GO due to the fact that he was the one who trained Arthuria in the use of that sword or that Bedivere's right arm is a simple projection created by Merlin with a strength less than original Airgetlam but with a similar resistance but unlike Merlin Shirou can create an entire sphere of reality with each and every single weapons he want. due to the same reality marble and it is not only projection magic is weaker but has significant long-term use like with Avalon, Shirou can create a Perfect copy of Avalon for being inside him for a long period of time and if we add that he can also create Excalibur with the same potency but at the cost of his own life he would be able to not only beat Arthuria but even Gilgamesh even if he used EA due to the fact that Avalon with Excalibur has a potency able to beat EA as seen in the Saber route but to do that he would also die in the process from overusing Mana even if he was in UBW, just like in Fate go 6th singularity Arash can use a NP anti anti-fortresses and even anti Nations that match Rhongomyniad but at the cost of his life, so it would be a draw if he used his NP but he would manage to beat his opponent even if it cost him his life, another example would be Arjuna in the 5th Singularity when Through increasing the strength of his NP "Pashupata" and his heroic treasure "Ghandiva" he managed to destroy 42 or 48 "i dont remember how many but it was a lot" demon pillars at the cost of his life if we use the possible limit of reference Shirou could exceed EA's power if he used Excalibur with Avalon but both would die in the process.

[@Niccogamer01]

@@ancy1205 well actually yes but no, just like Gilgamesh, even Shirou doesnt know the full potential of ubw and just use it like a last resource GoB, if he expand the multiple uses of his NP he could be one of the strongest in the entire Fate universe

[@asdqwe4123]

actually, merlin exacalibur is pretty much the OG one by that reason, also being the guardian of avalon helps in this fact

[@NotTsurugi]

My personal headcanon as to how Shirou & Archer's projection is so much stronger than normal, is due to the fact that they use Reinforcement. If you think about it, when Shirou is learning how to reinforce an object, he uses that magic to learn its entire component and structure, then reinforce it. A normal mage wouldn't be able to project a Noble Phantasm, but if Shirou uses Reinforcement to learn the object's components, then Reinforce it as he Projects it, that would explain how he's managing to get an even stronger replica than the original. Reinforcement also not only increases the strength of the base materials, but also increases the effectiveness, which might explain how they last longer as well. If he's Reinforcing a Projection, it would make up for the Projection's weaknesses.

[@Finalslashes]

His origin and atribute being sword and the things you mentioned + Avalon with him working on it his entire life

[@goldenbrigain7031]

eh, the big problem is that Archer and Emiya have good instincts and great analytical thinking but suck at true imaginative usage of their powers. They can know perfectly the aspects of all of their weapons but never developed new weapons based on the powers of their noble phantasms or developed unique manipulations of their powers in conjunction with other powers even if he couldn't gain them himself. Basically he can shape a weapon to hell and back but never overly manipulate the foundation of the weapon to create something new. that was his biggest weakness, that he would always copy and add adjustments but never truly change.

[@crlmson_]

I mean, I'm not sure if it's exactly what you're talking about, but there is Caladbolg II and Hrunting II (swords Archer modified into arrows so that he could shoot them), and Archer's bow, which he didn't directly trace but designed himself to be able to withstand firing Noble Phantasms. Also, there was the times he made his own artificial magic circuit, which is kinda creative, imo, even though it's stupidly dangerous. Again, maybe you're talking about other stuff, but that's just my take.

[@NeinKyori]

To be fair though, create something from scratch is harder than just copy and modify Although we do have Muramasa bringing out the full potential via being a blacksmith pseudo-servant using Shirou's body and his projection spell

[@thesurvivlist5440]

Archer Emiya can't develop new weapons based on the powers of other noble phantasms as noble phantasms are noble phantasms due to them being the symbols of the heroes existence and their history and as such he can only manipulate which he has done to Caladbolg II and Hrunting II. I don't understand the second part.

[@goldenbrigain7031]

@@thesurvivlist5440 nasu has this thing called "contort common sense until I get what I want"

[@andromidas920]

Real talk archer is probably the most skilled servant in fate, if not the most resourceful.

[@SUPERSIDESWIPER]

Most flexible not the most skilled.

[@bcfb21]

Definitely the most resourceful. If we don’t count any fgo servants you might have a leg to stand on. But with people like EMIYA assassin and muramasa archer falls short in skill.

[@anhdinhlamduc5700]

@@bcfb21 well EMIYA assassin don't strike me as skillful (in direct combat i mean, it look like he like to blizt his opponent with his time alter NP rather than actually being skillful).

[@wolffang489]

He has to overcome the overwhelming talent of his peers through an unknowably vast lifetime of rigorous training and fast pragmatic decision making.

[@nadhifbhagawantahadiprayit975]

Most skilled? not really. Most resourceful? Absolutely.

[@kurotoshiro3486]

He can trace EA as long as he knows the material that's the issue he does not know what it's made of.

[@clab232]

No, Projection can only make objects made by humans.

[@otaku.manloee6098]

One question: can he trace Rhongomyniad? If Excalibur is a divine weapon that Archer can trace, could he do the same to Rhongomyniad as it also is a divine weapon.

[@lordtouchme5417]

he cant copy divine constructs except for avalon which is replicated to absolute perfection and a really shitty excaliber

[@adraxer1365]

When u know what really is Rongominiad i doubt he can trace it, even with the help of the moon cell (Who give the capacity to Nameless of handle the enough information to replicate Excalibur without gets his brain fried).

[@Finalslashes]

The only way I see that happening is through a strong connection to grey but if not theirs literally no way for him to get in contact with it

[@ajtallent4501]

Imagine instead of shooting caladbolg as a arrow that detonates he used gae bolg or Excalibur image! That shit would be SO overpowered

[@SUPERSIDESWIPER]

Please fact check before posting. Archer has better options in Hrunting if he wants a homing weapon ( besides he has enough bad experience being on the receiving end of that spear) not to mention the fact that it IS a spear, thus by design very difficult to place in a bow unless heavily modified. As for Excalibur Image I think Archer has to much sentimentality towards Excalibur and it's wielder to use it as a broken phantasm. Unless it was really necessary. Maybe.

[@ajtallent4501]

@@SUPERSIDESWIPER didn't think I had to fact check since I was just like "hey this would be cool" but ok then

[@wolffang489]

He would die in the process.

[@ajtallent4501]

@@wolffang489 using Excalibur image probably would kill him unless he was in the moon cell. Gae bolg isn't very difficult for him to trace tho

[@wolffang489]

@@ajtallent4501 Moon Cell is an entirely different discussion that should be specified in my opinion.

[@JoeJoe-fd1ms]

with fate videos still going out, feels good and so hyped for part hf.

[@pantonpg]

I love the fact that Shirou is seen as a poor mage due to having only one magecraft and it being so specific (swords), but he would completely destroy almost any magus in a fight by the end of UBW. I mean this guy can summon Noble Phantasm such as Kanshou and Bakuya and in a straight close quarters fight he can compete with (a very weakend but still) Archer, a freaking heroic spirit. I wanna know how many mages could even go toe to toe with a 10% power Archer lmao. And despite he is not able to summon his RM, just the fact that he can project multiple pairs of K&B (which have magic resistance LOL) before running out of mana is INSANE for a magus. My boy needs more respect.

[@mikedanielespeja6128]

Well, I mean, he's strong, but against the actual big guns of the mage's association, he'd still die. Unless it's EMIYA, that's a significantly different story.

[@pantonpg]

@@mikedanielespeja6128 EMIYA is a heroic spirit, no magus stands a chance against him. Kayneth was one of the most powerful mages in the Clock Tower, right? How could he deal with Kanshou and Bakuya and Shirou's speed and technique?

[@justsomeone3962]

@@pantonpg they can't Shirou from fate stay is overpowered if you compare him to other human mages and underpowered as a servant

[@James35142]

He can technically project other weapons and such, like Rho Aias, but the magical energy cost for weapons that aren't swords is significantly higher because his elemental affinity is sword.

[@Finalslashes]

If you mean enforcers then I guess because bezzet no diffs bro he summons anything and she one shots because ubw is apart of his projections because mages are basically scientists not attack forces so unless you mean executioners / people from the church it doesn’t really matter

[@camomurf5182]

What I wanna know is whether or not there is a photocopy effect. If you project a projection, does it become even worse? If you project a copy of THAT projection, is it EVEN worse than before? So if Shirou projects Kanshou and Bakuya based off the ones that Archer projects, are they technically worse versions of HIS worse versions?

[@TGameDev]

Emiya's projection / UBW, Shiki's mystic eyes, Gilgamesh's gate hax, and the waifu with 1000 names has to be some of the things i like the most about this franchise. The universal rule set alone is pretty awesome and has a crazy amount of depth to it. Thanks for the video.

[@xSkysilver]

Wait who's the waifu?

[@joesfather9122]

@@xSkysilver hassan probably

[@vic4928]

You should do a Emiya Alter lore video. Plenty of interesting things to know about him.

[@Kvin1871]

I think the reason Archer was able to produce Rho Aias (UBW route) and still went toe-to-toe with Saber is because he replenished himself with Medea's mana storage (he's binded with her by the contract, so he can do that stuff), before severing the contract. Notice that he got himself fully healed and in peak condition when he appeared and struck Medea.

[@edmond0073]

I always wondered what kind of effect it will have on these two guys if they were given Green lantern's ring.

[@uchophamxuan6515]

The ring will work well but not at its highest potential since these two are swordmaniac. The highest thing they can made is a pair of lightsaber

[@Kain01able]

Would you say that Shirou had focused on projection instead of reinforcement, hed be stronger?

[@r.k845]

Obviously

[@gatsbyo.5716]

Theres 1 thing that looks familiar Projection and Reality Marble almost or should i say the concept of its mage craft are the same. 1. Projection is like create and tracing any kind of weapon and make its existence real in the world. 2. Reality Marble turning one's own image world into reality which a real taboo in the mage craft world. The concept is Almost the same right.

[@lopez.jacinto.6726]

Nah... Shirou is just a glorified copying machine.

[@eyeizarandummugga]

Gabriel jacinto lópez well he is “Mr. Noble Phantasm Stealer” according to Jeanne D’arc Santa Lily.

[@silversilva5773]

MrZee he’s on the naughty list

[@saintworks6817]

@@eyeizarandummugga He merely copies for eternity in his words XD

[@Succubus_L0li]

Can't copy anything that's not metal if it isn't a sword though

[@dudedude7846]

@@Succubus_L0li Na he can do anything bladed really efficiently swords are just the easiest. He can also just project random stuff like a ball. As long as UBW can reproduce it he can project it.

[@souperhappydrinkingcoffee5130]

I just had a though in kalied shouldn't illyas install have a headband or were they completely different cards because I don't remember shirou sending over the 8th card which was apparently a Gilgamesh archer card

[@sandlax9509]

I think the part about Shirou passing out after projecting caliburn is because most of his magic circuits went unused so projecting caliburn basically jump started them in a similar fashion to when he projected kanshou and bakuya in ubw and archer (who comes from a timeline that is very similar to the fate route) told him that it was exactly like that the first time he projected. Also projecting caliburn which is like, what an A or A+ rank Noble Phantasm is probably more taxing than projecting kanshou and bakuya which are c rank Noble Phantasms which is probably why he didn’t pass out in the ubw route in addition to all the battle wounds that he experienced whilst in combat with berserker.

[@emoon6618]

Do you have any idea how useful beinga able to make a fucking building and just dropping it on someone?

[@AnNguyen-es4kx]

If you can visualize it without your head exploding, sure

[@tohuiii]

0:17 I"ll come back to this video after watching the 3rd movie of Heaven's feel. Wait for me.

[@blueline4857]

I love your video, but one thing you may. have forgotten or skipped over at 10:16 is how in the Fate route, Shirou never properly awoke his Magic Circuits, instead he used his nerves to forge his Projections. So in that route it makes sense he would burn up and pass out from tracing Caliburn. And at 8:38 you mentioned he couldn't trace Ea, but you failed to mention that the same rule applies for almost every Divine Construct in the Fate series. Divine Constructs are made with materials that don't naturally exist in the physical world, so it's impossible to properly replicate them. Excalibur subverts this because it was made out of 'the wishes of humanity', so it's technically something that Shirou- a human- can understand. It's only a Divine Construct by technicality because it was made by the Gods, not because of the material. So UBW can Trace it, but it's just impractical.

[@James35142]

He was taught the basics by Rin, who had him swallow a gem that forced his magic circuits open and she had him make a mental trigger to access his natural magic circuits instead of trying to make one. He did this well before the fight with Heracles, the fight where he projected Caliburn.

[@509nicolas]

Yo can we get a video about the restraints of the round table for gray, saber and Arthur?

[@PeachDragon_]

If archer had decent magecraft instead of tracing he would be even more overpowered.

[@yurineri2227]

I have to disagree

[@bcfb21]

It’s precisely because he only has one type of magic that he’s become so powerful. It’s like training only in one sport versus training in several. If you dedicate all your time to one activity and forget everything else you will become unstoppable with that one thing.

[@PeachDragon_]

@@bcfb21 i'm not saying he should have more than one. I am saying that if he had a *different* more combat capable type of magic he would be even stronger. beast magecraft would make his strength stat EX easily, he'd be stronger than 99% of servants physically

[@jimmyolsen2725]

@@PeachDragon_ Strength isnt really that big of a deal when it comes to Servants. I mean, it's not like having EX rank strength will save you from a Gae Bolg or some other Noble Phantasm that doesn't even give a shit about your physical stats. Unlike Shonen logic, you cannot simply defeat everyone just by being stronk af. In fact, compared to other anime like One Piece or Naruto, Fate is pretty weak in terms of physicals, as even Servants with an A rank stat is only 50 times stronger than a normal human, and barely faster than sound. What makes fate a powerful verse is due to its hax and sheer versatility. It has many esoteric abilities that don't give a damn how strong you are physically. Goku, despite being millions of times stronger than Heracles, would die to Gae Bolg. Likewise, Goku cannot kill Heracles despite the massive power difference, as Godhand would eventually make him immune to his attacks after a while. So yeah, Strength isn't really that important in Fate, its the broken hax that plays a huge factor. And that is what Archer has, a nigh-limitless amount of Noble Phantasms with broken abilities. It's what makes him so op, and what allows him to kill Heracles several times over in the Fate route despite the latter being dozens of times stronger than him. Nothing just comes close to being able to duplicate Noble Phantasms, only True Magic, and no amount of Magecraft is stronger than a True Magic/Noble Phantasm.

[@wolffang489]

@@jimmyolsen2725 While most action stories are driven by raw power creep, the Nasuverse is driven by the ravings of a couple history and philosophy nerds.

[@valdr2286]

Next video why archer is stronger than you think

[@James35142]

Wait, Caliburn is a B rank, and god hand nullifies any attack or weapon lower than an A rank, so how did it kill Heracles?

[@James35142]

@@ancy1205 Did some research, and its rank was due to her experience level.

[@_BBAGG_]

Sabers Experience with Caliburn caused the Projected Copy to be a Rank Up from the original, It's just like when you rank up a NP in FGO

[@-insert-515]

if you think about it shirou could've paid off his debts and project the zelrtich sword

[@Annext]

But shirou used rho aias in his ubw against Gilgamesh

[@jesterlefae3940]

Projection, Structural Analysis, Reinforcement, and Golden Rule. If I had these I’d be set.

[@jesterlefae3940]

@@zaki7583 Exactly.

[@adz4528]

Ah this was sick! And I would definitely be all for an 'Why Archer is stronger than you think' video

[@ashtonhilton5651]

Wait so can muramasa also use trace. And in that case wouldnt that make him op as hell

[@blueline4857]

Muramasa is a blacksmith Heroic Spirit summoned into Shirou's body. So technically he's combining his own 'Blacksmith' legend with UBW to turn it into his own personal forge. He's not super OP because he still has to use up his own energy to forge blades, and as shown in FGO, the only time he made a really OP blade it literally killed him.

[@worldofstories7159]

Is it possible that the basic mage crafts are just precursors to the true magics? Then again this is like comparing a level 10 spells to a level 0 cantrip. However perhaps taking these basics to there absolute limits, it could be possible.

[@yurineri2227]

great video I would just like to add something archer can modify the weapons he traces like Caladbolg II

[@YukitoOnline]

@Tsiah IV Get your Saint Quartz ready! Ereshkigal is coming!!!

[@ChuenLocke]

Can he copy a weapon if he only sees a image?

[@MrYoyoshi9]

He has to see the thing somehow, it works usually with him just looking at the weapons but it works just fine with memories that are not his if he is connected to another person, but that person has to have seen the weapons too it is used that way twice; a simple picture or even blueprints don't work

[@SUPERSIDESWIPER]

To clarify what I think the person above was trying to say: No it's not possible for Shirou to copy a weapon if he just sees an image of said weapon. The reason he was able to recreate the lost Caliburn was because he saw it via Sabers memories, allowing him to analyse it.

[@MrYoyoshi9]

@@SUPERSIDESWIPER Yes I mean see the real things in person

[@wolffang489]

@@SUPERSIDESWIPER This is why he could not project the Jeweled sword from it's diagram.

[@nejiharuno]

Archer Emiya being able to claim that he can do a near replication of Excalibur but will die. Imagine how good NAMELESS is in comparison when coupled with Hakuno, a far weaker Master than Rin, when he can spam Excalibur Image within the Moon Cell...

[@3xvant]

So basically u say every rho aias that appears on shiro is literally archer own right ? (Im not read the novel/play vn)

[@SupernaturalDetective]

First video I’ve watched of yours and this help me understand two of my favorite characters in fate you got yourself a sub

[@Brokenbadge]

Another solid video and keep up the hard work

[@jmspicer96]

I appreciate the info on my favorite servant thanks.

[@crystalking784]

What if Archer (shirou) plays "Devil May Cry 5"? Would he be able to recreate the weapons?

[@nerodeadweightclaudius5422]

My guess is that he can't reproduce weapons he sees through media, he has to actually be there. However Archer can forge his own swords, so he could make an original sword that looks like Rebellion, but won't have Rebellion's demonic power. My username has never been this relevant! Umu, DEADWEIGHT.

[@crystalking784]

@@nerodeadweightclaudius5422 Nero: what did you say?!

[@nerodeadweightclaudius5422]

@@crystalking784 THAT BASTARD CALLED ME DEAD WEIGHT! I DIDN'T COME ALL THIS WAY FOR NOTHING!!!

[@NeinKyori]

Shirou with Archer's knowledge couldn't project Jewels sword even with detailed blueprint So I think he need to see it directly or else it'd only be a hollow prop without power

[@Preditype]

The 7 steps part are those things he has to learn in order to trace them or does he automatically know them as he is tracing

[@sandlax9509]

What about that time that Shirou used rho aias against Gil?

[@twilights_voice3178]

i was lookin for someone to do this , i needed clarification on the process of tracing. Glad my boy Tsiah made it for us💯

[@colinmcbottle]

To clarify something, He casted the first Rho Aias in UBW on Caster's contract, which she had a really big prana pool. After Caster's contract went out for obvious reasons, now then he was on his own and with Independent Action B he can stay up for a couple of days. You could consider he has energy to spare considering he casted UBW twice on the anime, but on the VN it was only once. The caveat with EMIYA is that when alive as a mage on his own he couldn't do any of this by a mile, this is why he made the pact with Alaya, and normally with the Counter Force backing him up he can spam projections/reality marbles all he wants, but on a HGW he needed a fairly competent mage to be actually useful. Something similar with Saber and her Mana Burst, besides stats nerfs when being with Shirou, you can see how OP broken she can be if she has unlimited energy like when she is Altered.

[@paolohonrade9164]

There are a few things I would like to have clarrified regarding Shirou and Emiya's unique Tracing Magecraft. Can they also gain boost in their parameters, depending on the weapon they conjure? I ask 'cause I see some people having discussions that he can, and what the limitations are, but don't really know where in the VN it was stated that he gets a boost from his projected weapons. Some say it was the time with Caliburn, but I just thought that Shirou was unconsciously imitating Saber's skill with the sword, as describe that sword felt like it was moving on its own to counter Berserker. Plus it never states he got stronger when using it, infact he flat said he couldn't use it properly. The other was when Shirou first projected Herc's Axe-Sword. But again, I ask how does he gain a boost in his parameters? It's not even a weapon Herc originally owned, it was handcrafted by the Eizenbergs for Berserker to use. Was it when Shirou said that "...the arm will emulate the strength of my enemy". Was it from that line? 'cause I just assumed that Shirou was just placing his faith that Archer's arm would have the parameters itself to lift the weapon, not give him a boost. Since it was establish that some of Archer's servant qualities were leaking and blending into Shirou, but also slowly killing him. Also if it was going to give him the strength he needed, then why did his body buckle under the weight of the sword, to the point he needed reinforcement to fix the damages? --- Also I always questioned the whole "can't trace guns or any modern weapon" rule. I mean excluding faith Extra where Nameless says he can project guns because the Mooncell is less strict with magic. In Hollow Araraxia Emiya projected a bunch of fishing equipment and a fishing rod with a super computer attached to it. And in a Summer event: Servant Summer Camp: Chaldea's Thriller Night in FGO, he projected a Brick Oven to make pizza. In another event, that I don't remember, he projected a cotton candy machine. That's not mentioning the randome stuff he projected that's just sitting in his shed for years. Why are guns excluded, but a futuriatic fishing pole isn't. This isnt to diss your video, I just really don't understand the rules 😅 Also can you imagine a small section in UBW where a bunch of miscellaneous items are just laying about 😂

[@TNuuv]

why don't you reinforce your projection if it's that weak? i'm gonna assume because ya can't

[@MrYoyoshi9]

Archer does reinforce his projections, when talking about normal projection they can do it too, but that doesn't stop them from vanishing

[@DragunHoardingLewds]

The World / Gaia constantly tries to erase projections while some projections can last longer i.e. ordinary objects or with enough mana stored, it would still ultimately vanish especially true when famous or powerful replicas of objects are projected Gaia / World would ruthlessly exert some manner of its force to the object until it disappears.

[@soraadcaelum2428]

Is it possible to explain how Origin works

[@tonyinfinite5174]

The Kara no Kyoukai personality element tide to Magic right

[@soraadcaelum2428]

@@tonyinfinite5174 yeah that

[@SUPERSIDESWIPER]

Check the Type-moon wiki it has an explanation.

[@wolffang489]

It's basically the foundation of a persons being and the passive driving force of the soul. If they are aware of their own Origin it becomes an unavoidable obsession.

[@soraadcaelum2428]

@@wolffang489 so say for example my origin was somehow a dragon, then I would act like how a dragon does?

[@ZAIDII0]

This man made a very weak magic ability to a very strong ability and made it his go two ability

[@sampsonragbir2547]

What if emiya had the element for weapon instead of sword, what would happen ????

[@Luna-Starfrost]

I love how Emiya is basicly that dude in a video game who refuses to pick any Meta-characters/strategies and always goes for what is considered the weakest by everyone and still gets to Grandmaster. 😂

[@LordEmperorBoss]

My question is what happens when you reinforce the projection?

[@jeremyargha9086]

You get a broken phantasm.

[@Brutalyte616]

The moral of the story is that classical mages are fucking idiots for dismissing a form of Magecraft that lets you literally pull anything you want out of thin air.

[@JSNDragon]

Congrats on your Gil!

[@yonatanabraha7083]

Wait, he used roh aias even in the middle of fight vs gilgamesh how come?

[@blackfyre7900]

Archer is Stronger Than You Think please!

[@thirdplanet4471]

l'd use this to make as much money as possible

[@alphax-shroom6781]

I like my headcannon idea that with enough magical energy shirou can project Saber servants and turn his UBW into something similar to Iskanders NP.

[@elgatto3133]

fate grand order is just shirou's reality marble of seibas

[@rebelblade7159]

Great video. This clarified lots of things about projection in general and the capabilities of those who can use it. Archer may not be someone with raw power like most top servants but the diversity of his kit and his own mindset make him a strong contender for grail wars. Independent Action for the Archer class is already quite a boon. Then we come to tracing, something that is very practical for scenarios that can happen in a HGW. Imagine Archer facing Siegfried or Sieg transformed as sumanai, whom he does not know the true name of yet. But by tracing Balmung, he can not only learn about his opponent's identity but also know their capabilities and in Siegfried's case: his weak spot in the back. Now, if he could simply land a hit with a projected weapon there, then it would be game over. And in Sieg's case, if he transforms into Fafnir, Archer can simply counter by summoning anti-dragon weapons and firing volleys of them before Fafnir could react properly. Well Sieg would probably die by a sword through Sumanai's weak spot without plot armor but yeah this should give an idea about what kind of things Archer could do. So underestimating him is a bad idea.

[@jmvlogsandgaming410]

Just imagine if Kiritsugu implanted the crest to Shirou (let's just it succeeded) and he taught shirou how to use it, he'd be really powerful, he goes on using time alter then projects swords around him to fight

[@VergilDarkslayer]

OUS shirou basically

[@LoneWolf20213]

I like UBW's, it's interesting, but I think if the gate of Babalon and UBW was fused, then they'd be unstoppable

[@kevinle5619]

Lies. Memelin can project Excalibur.

[@Jonesy32188]

technically he's pulling out Excalibur from avalon to use it.

[@yukimiasma9590]

Gay Bulge vs Bro I ask?

[@DragonNarutoEleven1]

Fate Kaleid Illya's Shirou is so OP,he ended the Grail War in one night. And the man survived the Sword of Swords lmao

[@tonyinfinite5174]

@Get Banned thank you in terms of feats Kalied is not Canon to the main universe

[@combatlightning9481]

That's because Shirou's card in that universe had EMIYA. And EMIYA allowed this Shirou to use his full power because his ideals have been completely rejected. He had all the centuries worth of experience, skills, Tracing, and so on and so fourth. They were literally the same person. The others however could only use like a fraction of a Servant's real power, which is what allowed Under Snow Shirou to win the Grail so easily in just one night. He was literally as strong as Archer EMIYA

[@SUPERSIDESWIPER]

@@combatlightning9481 Miyuverse Shirou won that war due to a number of factors. 1. The class card he was using was that of a possible future version of himself, thus when he used he was fully synchronized with it. 2. Unknowingly he was receiving backing from Miyu allowing him to do far more then he would have been able to himself. 3. His opponents were not the actual servants. They were just using there powers and weapons.

[@combatlightning9481]

@@SUPERSIDESWIPER uh yeah that's kinda the chunk of what I just said... Except the second one. Wasn't aware of that one

[@omegazx999]

@@tonyinfinite5174 Everything in Fate is canon to each other due to the rules introduced in Fate/Hollow Ataraxia and expanded on in Fate/Grand Order.

[@supworld8963]

How is archer alter able to create a guns? I call BS. Shiro should't be able to do so

[@supworld8963]

@@FoxtailVA, thank you

[@みんみん-l2q7s]

恋と魔法のアリスリーダー🤴🧣🔥ハッピーバースデーTo Youあろーはーごきげんよう👸

[@みんみん-l2q7s]

誕生日じゃない日の歌

[@blacksmithsage5580]

Love the video, thanks for all you do.

[@madmohawk6560]

It's cool that your doing this video for free...

[@paultan1229]

Cant he just reinforce his projection?

[@v40idrifter22]

I think that what he do when he is using a broken phantasm.

[@BNF5005]

He can. That's what Archer does to turn Kanshou and Bakuya into Trace Overedge(for Triple-Linked Crane Wings) and that's why his Caladbolg looks different than Fergus's. He transformed it to have a more aerodynamic structure, allowing him to better use it as an "arrow". Speaking of which, whenever Archer he projects a Noble Phantasm and wants to shoot it from his bow as a Broken Phantasm, he utilizes reinforcement to transform it into an arrow by altering its structure (and then turns it into a BP by unleashing the magical energy stored within).

[@BNF5005]

@@v40idrifter22 No. When he turns his Noble Phantasms into Broken ones, he basically unleashes the magical energy stored within them (by default, Noble Phantasms have massive amounts of magical energy within them) and he can also charge the BPs for even more powerful shots.

[@khoo185]

I’m seriously interested in how I can write an ability that’s similar to UBW but without completely ripping it off. I find Shirou/EMIYA and their abilities fascinating ever since I watched the UBW adaptation by UFOtable.

[@wolffang489]

Look up some of the other reality marbles for more inspiration.

[@khoo185]

More inspiration to add on to the "UBW" concept?

[@fizzygaming5384]

Can you do Miyuverse Emiya Shirou's Protection Magecraft please.

[@davegarcia8809]

His abilities are good but you realize he’s just a really strong human right he not a god or king or demonic being he’s just a strong person with good abilities if used right think about it the one kill out of all three Fate route is when he fights Hercules in the deen route idk if he actually kill Hercules in ubw but I’m not counting it because after the dust clears he’s one still standing and two looks in harmed so yeah I’m the deen route he’s actually able to take one or two lives from Hercules after he pulls him into the reality marble but he nearly died doing so. He lost I one on one with cu twice I wanna say he would have a fight with Medea idk because she wasn’t fight king seriously sooooo yeah in all three routes he’s kinda treated like cu he’s gets more screen time yes but yes never able to truly show off what he can do but it’s just not much he can show off. He a strong man with experience but that’s it it’s never told or shown that he’s gotten training like the others or has mastered skill like others all his knowledge has simple come from seeing others and that’s it he’s a strong human that a lot of fake stuff the only OP SHit he has is his reality marble but if your someone like Hercules he makes that shit look like a play ground and yes his ability to make broken phantasm’s are cool but he’s not just able to constantly fire Them either he can shit two or three

[@pattdiy4283]

In the fate route yeah EMIYA managed to take 6 lives out of Heracles

[@davegarcia8809]

Patrick Diy you realize there three Fate routes right

[@dudedude7846]

@@davegarcia8809 What? The first route is called the Fate route

[@davegarcia8809]

dude dude okay........ is that it

[@dudedude7846]

@@davegarcia8809 Yeah there aren't 3 fate routes lol

[@shauqiharris2772]

So usually projection magecraft is useless but for Shirou and Archer their have special kind of projection that let them created near perfect copy of certain weapons.

[@lordblackstar3272]

It probably helps that they are great grand children of senji muramsa.

[@xidjav1836]

If all servants have Infinite mana in the moon cell (basically no limiters) EMIYA archer would be one of the most broken servants in that condition cause he can infinity spam broken phantasms of almost any and all man made Phantasms and weaponry/ armour with other godly Phantasms

[@joaquiningram5573]

Will projection magic be a transmuter or specialist ability if was in hxh?

[@khorva4865]

Makes you kinda wonder how the Oath Under the Snow Shirou was able to trace the divine objects Ig-Alima and Sul-sagana.

[@tonyinfinite5174]

Exclusive to that universe only both Shirou and Archer actually can't trace any Divine Construct as those aren't forged or Materialistic. divine weapons are considered apart of the gods themselves

[@MrYoyoshi9]

He didn't, his "divine constructs" are just literally empty shells without any of the powers of the originals. Even in the original VN there's instances where the possibility of making projections that can come close to divine constructs comes up, and then there's HF.

[@tonyinfinite5174]

@@MrYoyoshi9 what would that be the Jeweled sword or Heracles Ax none of those are divine weapons don't remember anything else in HF that included Divinity

[@dudedude7846]

Reminder that prisma isn't supervised by Nasu at all and pretty much just does whatever the fuck it wants without regard for anything.

[@MrYoyoshi9]

@@tonyinfinite5174 Excalibur

[@luckyowl10]

If EMIYA was an RPG player, he will be the one that does so much and so well optimized grind that he can kill the final boss with the worst item and the worst character in the game without a scratch.

[@akalilakram1284]

Spoiler Don't forget in heaven's feel shiro also do a copy of caster's rule breaker, which is a nobel phantasm in itself. Man on steroids with just an arm.. Perhaps archer can do much more exluding Excalibur (maybe that's too op). And thinking back in ubw, archer shouldn't be a support, perhaps he himself can do the nine lives blade works to defeat berserker idk.

[@nonlimitable8130]

I wonder what’s your Background music

[@uniquename6925]

not first

[@numberhunter62]

Ea can't even begin to be traced not just because it's a creation of the gods but also because it was created before the concept of sword even existed.

[@DragunHoardingLewds]

Ea is also made from materials outside of Gaia / World making it incomphrehensable and utterly impossible to replicate because of its alien origins.