Fate vs Free Will, The JBP's HEATED Discussion

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[@tentoetimo9578]

They dont even understand the premise of the question. Talkin bout covid restrictions and government 😂

[@realmensmellwell]

Right! The conversation is more about are our lives determined for us or not by something outside of the realm of humanity. Something as simple as eating a bowl of cereal.. did we choose to have cereal this morning or was it determined by a higher power that on this day, it was written that this is what we would have for breakfast? Much different argument than they’re having.

[@jaymesjorsling4423]

Thank you!!!!! They are as off base as those who do not understand that freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences. I like that they attempted the conversation…but then, from inception they do not fully understand their argument

[@Alr1ghtyThen]

Just because they have a very successful podcast doesn't mean they are intelligent people you should listen to.

[@ANTIStraussian]

It's the least informed podcast since Joe rogan

[@Alr1ghtyThen]

@@jaymesjorsling4423 to be fair, on the surface "Freedom of Speech" does sound like freedom to say what you want without consequences BUT... when you read that fine print in the constitution... 😂

[@Felhoney1]

This is excruciating. Wtf are they talking about? What does fate have to do with government? I can’t.

[@chefwhitney7793]

Right 😂😂😂

[@Th3gr3atjuan]

Shut up dude. Cut your phone off and stop crying

[@TheSentry603]

Fate is real, it does exist for all of us. Our fate is to die. Free will is real, it exists for all of us. Our free will determines how we live.

[@coachk.d4213]

The best answer 💯💯

[@MrSmurf459]

There is no free will! Everything is predetermined based upon our genetic, upbringing and environment!

[@LiveWithZih]

Perfect

[@phil-o-phobic8608]

This is like ChatGPT 5.0 summarizing the long ass dissertation I was gonna type lmao. Eloquently put, friend.

[@2iggy_]

@@Kamfambabieee are you dense?

[@husslewestbrook4813]

I feel like we have control to an extent. We can't ignore "conditioning" and "manipulation"

[@85MAYS]

When we unlearn the conditioning, we can obtain some degree of control (dominion might be a better word). Still, we're subject to universal laws and have to learn how to live in accordance with them. My two cents.

[@husslewestbrook4813]

@@85MAYS word , agreed

[@blessedbetit665]

@@85MAYS I've been reading these comments. And a lot of ppl think of Free Will in a political sense. But the issue of free will goes much deeper, into The natural order of things like Biology. For instance, if you believe in Free Will, you shouldn't really have an issue with something like Transgenders.

[@CrwnRoyel]

“If there is not equal access of information then there is no free will…just the illusion of it”

[@COTTrader]

There is still free will. Free will for those who have the information to make a choice to spread that information or not.

[@celestialnubian]

Next time y'all try to have a philosophical discussion, please invite an actual philosopher on the pod to set some parameters.

[@sm0key0u31]

Invite a philosopher to give his subjective takes ? Lay off the dust 😂

[@celestialnubian]

@@sm0key0u31 Oh child, It's not about "subjective takes". It's about how to think, how to approach a subject and what words mean.

[@sm0key0u31]

@@celestialnubian “how to think” that’s being subjective you goof, you don’t even know what subjective means and you’re talking about philosophy which is the basis of it..keep drinking embalming fluid

[@sm0key0u31]

@@celestialnubian subjectivity takes? Philosophy is based on subjectivity..you don’t even know the basics..you have a mind of a child, keep embarrassing yourself 🤣

[@menacemini4894]

@@celestialnubianit’s still subjective tho because two different philosophers can have different opinions lop

[@JenniTulls]

‘Fate’ and ‘Free Will’ ARE real and they hold hands. I’ve had some instances where I tried to prevent some things from happening and even with the preventative measures I did, the situation STILL happened.

[@ANTIStraussian]

Fate isn't real, it's confirmation bias

[@nickb839]

They keep talking about race and genetic make up this channel makes no sense at all. We do have free will and you can do whatever you choose but the outcome of whatever option you choose is already written and determined.

[@nickb839]

It’s a deep conversation.

[@COTTrader]

@@nickb839 Its not that deep. Choices having consequences doesnt make it fate. We had the free will for each choice that we make.

[@nickb839]

@COTTrader It’s all planned prior. You can trust that i’m more experienced on this matter.

[@MrSunshiney]

From a mathematical, physically standpoint. We are objects within the universe that are being acted upon by other objects in the universe. Our actions are constantly impacted by the motion of other objects within the universe. Essential we are dominos. Even accounting for Quantum mechanics, there is still a limited number of options/most probable options. Joe made the point about Genetics, and there are those predispositions. There aren't many ways to change our underlying genetics that are available. Epigenetics allows us to influence which genes are active, but doing so in a targeted way is not feasible atm to my knowledge. A lot of our trajectory is predetermined to my current knowledge. Any influence from outside factors in determining our actions is a corruption of free will. Our current actions impact our future actions, so even the first corruption has dire consequences.

[@ShadySlim1991]

Wow, so far this is the best explanation. I've never thought about it this way but this is well said. BRAVO!!!! Honestly, I feel like you're correct. Could that be Fate, or is it my Free Will to think 🤔

[@Tvhwiyupsd]

Free will determines your fate. Plain and simple 🤦🏾‍♀️

[@Lab90production]

Facts

[@bejaismith8791]

🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️

[@saucegodxx]

But thats the point of the question was it fate that wills you to make a certain decision are is it a game of chance

[@bertomeza2902]

No

[@IconicUniverse4L]

I feel like FREE WILL determines your FATE. Example, Ish brought up Dark Matter, Jason’s decision to not have the baby was his free will choice that he made, his girl choice to respect it and not have the child resulted in their fate being that Jason didn’t have a family and was unhappy while his girl succeeded. Jason went to another reality in hopes to change his fate What I do in my life determines where I go, the where I go or end up part is my fate. If you stream on twitch, KZbin, do KZbin shorts, promote yourself a bunch etc your fate could be you being a Kai Cenat level streamer. I hope that makes sense

[@Tim_ToolMayne_Taylor]

Bingo. You have FREE WILL to wear any color you want in LA, but your FATE will be decided by people that will have feelings about the colors you wear.

[@Kirbystare1992]

@@Tim_ToolMayne_Taylorwhen the probability is low that free will will help change your undesired circumstance how much does free will matter then? The slavery example if the slave wants to be free but sees his other slave friends killed every time they try to escape what good does telling him you have the free will to change your situation do?

[@GoldieVoerman]

1000% agree had this debate/argument with family in the past and I was always on this frame of thinking

[@IconicUniverse4L]

@@Tim_ToolMayne_Taylor exactly

[@IconicUniverse4L]

@@Kirbystare1992 because every action has a reaction, so if the slaves stay slaves and don’t attempt to free themselves then the reaction is more of them die under the slave masters, that’s their fate. When Harriet Tubman chose to free slaves she made a choice with her free will to change other slaves fate, whoever got halfway and didn’t go through with it, they were killed. Thus their fate being death. Every decision we make has some type of result which is our fate. If I eat healthy and workout a lot my fate is good health and physic, if I don’t then my fate is diabetes, heart disease and an early grave. Both are choices and both are fates. Free will and fate are neither good nor evil, their neutral. The person however determines whether it’s good or evil if that makes sense

[@420BoxingNetwork]

If a guy gets shot in the eye by a stray bullet and is now blind, is he blind by fate or free will?

[@DStarx313]

Right, this conversation was all over the place.

[@Tormund_Giantsbrain]

This is beyond your paygrade. Stay in ya lane.

[@Assembled.studios]

We all have free will. It’s the consequences that may alter if we decide to exercise our free will or not.

[@GoodnightJonboi]

Nobody understands “free will” so conversations around it are always frustrating. Most people think free will just means “making choices”. And, yeah, of course, we can make choices. Lol. That’s not worth discussing because everybody agrees with that. Free will doesn’t exist because we have genetics, and we have environment, and those two things are the domino block for every decision we will ever make. If I think of a color, and you reverse time, and I think of a color again, I’m always gonna think of the same color. Because my whole life has led to me picking that color. In the moment, you have choice, but when you zoom out and look at your whole life in totality, it could only ever go one way.

[@blessedbetit665]

I agree

[@chrisridenhour4351]

@@GoodnightJonboi You have a good understanding of Freewill..

[@GladysGordon-zq1wr]

Your vibe is infectious, love watching your content!

[@lylesrevenge]

Kdot bots

[@josheasy6716]

Those are just bots why would They be kdot bots ? When they say this shit on every video ?..

[@2iggy_]

People have fate confused, thinking that YOUR dreams are connected to it. Fate is whatever your destination is, and you have free will to influence your destination. This isn’t rocket science if you go beyond the shallow end of the pool. FREE WILL INFLUENCES YOUR FATE.

[@Prez16]

I notice how you stated influence and not determined. Meaning free will can HELP you get to a certain destination but sometimes things happen that determine that destination you envisioned in unattainable now so you have to cope and find another one.

[@Lighting4aQut]

The lowkey “cmon Joe” @1:38 had me in stitches 😂

[@blessedbetit665]

If you had Free Will, wouldnt you be able to determine every aspect of your life? The simple fact we are bound to necessities like eating, breathing, etc, shows why free will is a strange idea and concept.

[@Blank9458]

Don’t really get what you’re saying

[@juri_xiii9977]

Dum-Dum.

[@ianmoone6562]

you are literally going the extremist route but guess what... You can still not do those things. There are consequences like death and stuff but you are free to not eat if you want lol

[@thebudgeteconomist]

@@ianmoone6562precisely. You can also leave the country…if you’re willing to walk for free

[@Hugo-tf6no]

Hmmmm there’s a short story about this exact thing. Bartleby, the Scrivener. He decides one day to give up and take free will to the absolute extreme, no eating, no nothing, dies at the end.

[@enape42]

He read the definition to fate and they veered all the way from the topic. Lol

[@ChocoDee_Hz]

Fate is broad. Fate said Joe Budden would be an entertainer. That’s fate. His free will comes into play when he chooses how he spins his fate,ie; podcast, rapper, guy in club that sits cross-cross- apple sauce on the table. They aren’t exclusive of each other. Having free will is having the choice to lay in bed/ or get up and hustle. The fate side of it is when you believe, even with no proof, that your meant to entertain, or sing, or produce, or ball, or marry this person for this kid, but the choices still take you to the fated path. This has been my Chocolate take!

[@YuhnahmeanFearon]

That's the best explanation I've seen so far . End of the day we are creators to an extent who we surround ourselves with what we do on a daily ,how we live, how we think will determine our life style and whatever we do is all cause and affect good or bad ... In regards to the religious /spiritual aspect of it god/higherpower, the universe, whatever u wanna call it has the same message which it won't change our c8rcumstances unless we first change ourselves

[@michael43567]

I disagree. That logic says ANYTHING that happens to us can be attributed to fate. I believe almost everything has a cause & effect. The "cause" is often a result of free will

[@jonathonmerritt9663]

They’re not assembled for this level of conversation. They’re talking freedom. Not freewill.

[@Antonio-hb8rd]

Was having this a convo about freee will and being black the other day. When you choose to exercise your free will as a black person you realise how racist the people truly are. You thought is was bad when you fell in line.

[@dariusbouyer8258]

Really sounds like a victim mindset you gotta be a warrior to get what you want

[@Antonio-hb8rd]

@@dariusbouyer8258 Acknowledging your experience isn't being a victim, it's living in reality. Denying reality doesn't make you strong, it's actually what weak people do as they're too scared to accept the truth. You can still push forward and acknowledge the struggles you face.

[@noahj199]

Predispositions do not nullify free will. Our fate is the cards we're dealt; our free will is how we play the hand.

[@jamaalw8973]

Great topic!!!

[@TheGlobal1212]

NY was sayin uncle during Covid. Traveled to 4 different states during that time and NY was super inside and on punishment. Felt surreal

[@KlikQuot]

Either you going make shit happen, watch shit happen or not know what happened - Mixtape Joe

[@NikkyT1]

They are not smart enough to have this conversation

[@waderoyal_]

The real slavery is thinking we all came from a boat and that we weren’t already over here lol

[@user-ix6ki1ng7j]

You determine your fate based off of your actions. You have free will to make tho actions. Those decisions can be made harder or easier by surrounding conditions tho

[@mohjayy]

Summed it up very well brother 👏🏾

[@Demsky83]

Freedom is an illusion between the people with power and those without.

[@ADG.Est.1988]

The decisions we make ultimately decide our fate. We have free will, but our decisions do have consequences

[@jayc5756]

True

[@StraightGuyStraightTalk]

“Wanna leave me In the streets pealed. Well if not happens it happens I believe in free will” Joe Budden Quote.

[@henryhudson4965]

I was outside the whole time during COVID-19 in California. I got my haircut in California. 4:12 💯

[@RobinHoodHefe]

Did all the people that died at the hands of a drunk driver make that choice? Was it free will? What about people born with severe illness or disabilities? Did they choose that type of life?

[@ambushmusic8858]

I don't believe they grasped the question.

[@Wheel_VCL]

Only reason AIR free is because we can’t see nor grab it, they would’ve SOLD it to us , FACT!!!😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@ArtFromEarth_2]

Some things are cause/effect and some things are meant to happen.. be kind to yourself either way 💙💡

[@jayc5756]

Yeah, Exactly. Makes sense

[@ShadySlim1991]

We can not know for certain whether our lives are governed by Fate or Freewill or both. As unenlightened human beings, we are not capable of acquiring this knowledge. However, we are capable of feeling what guides us. Sometimes, the feeling of what guides us is so strong, that it takes control of our lives🤷🏾‍♂️

[@DanielHernandez-ox2ri]

During Covid, CHOICE was taken away, more so for healthcare workers tan any other sector. Everything changed for everyone, except healthcare workers, WE still left the house to go to work. We had a CHOICE to either get vaccinated or not. If you got the Vax, you kept your job, if you didn't, you were prohibited from returning to work, without pay. Was it a choice, or was CHOICE taken away?

[@lonnieknight9187]

Ive heard black ups and fed ex drivers say they couldn't deliver to certain areas. The companies told them not too

[@antdel33]

Fate, is already knowing which path you will or would have chosen.

[@WhatsthaControversy]

Joe with the hot takes !!!!

[@kashhclegg2826]

Low key these are the conversations I wanna hear from the jbp

[@MrBktoboca]

Freedom and free will are different. During Covid, there wasn’t a much freedom BUT you had the free will to believe what you wanted about the situation

[@setofwings]

Free will is for those who create the rules. Fate is for those who are under the rules. For those who have free will, they create their fate and that of others who don't have free will.

[@jayc5756]

Where Ice at?

[@WhatsthaControversy]

Ish ass went to a HBCU??? Yoo they really doing y’all a disservice 😂

[@IAMPVYNE]

Religious folk also believe in free will, giving more credence to your surrendering to a higher power

[@MASTER.SON.]

I believe it's both free will and fate. You're destined (fate) to make the choices (free will) you have made and will make.

[@Anthony-es7py]

Which pateron episode was this deeper discussed

[@delvesdg]

Fate and Free will are intertwined. The only way that free will can be exacted is if there are certain levels of a preordained resources, then that Fate in turn creates more Fate for your self others to exact more Free Will.

[@phil-o-phobic8608]

I always viewed free will as us setting the ball in motion and fate being all the circumstances that will occur simultaneously to make that ball land in a certain place at a certain time. We have some power to change it's direction after the fact through any available means, but we're pretty limited when it comes to predicting the behavior of all the other forces (ie wind or any obstacles). Math is the closest thing we have to a form of algorithmic predestination.

[@jdgreen3703]

Yes…this isn’t the forum for health information I’m not hear to learn that sought of material for podcasters👌🏿

[@Damphouse]

You have the freedom to choose to do what you want, but you don't have the freedom to chose what you want to do. You may have the freedom to make a choice, but your fate/destiny isn't determined solely by your choices. Your future's determined by your predispositions in combination with your circumstances. If you had enough info, you could probably map out an entire person's life based on who they are and what will they'll encounter.

[@GiancarloCordon]

they completely missed the mark with all their answers... lol!! this question is BEYOND choosing to get up to go to work.... A more appropriate question would have been... "Joe, the success of your podcast, do you think you were always meant to be here with this level of success? or do you think it's because of the choices you've made?"

[@williamsmith8910]

that original argument is what got me locked in to the new cast and gave me the chance to enjoy this version of JBP more than the old cast

[@JVice12]

We have freedom, not free will. There’s a difference

[@MulletMike]

Y’all kids be running around. 😂

[@mmmbiscuits1211]

They all talking past each other.

[@Assembled.studios]

You can do what you want but you have to understand there will be consequences whether good or bad. Every action has a reaction

[@kingofnara]

Free will isn’t freedom from consequence, you have a choice to go off someone that don’t mean you won’t be put in jail for it

[@Freight_Up_Trucker]

I think they are missing the point here. You can do what you want, but it comes with consequences.

[@Be-Rean]

Free will is the means to achieve your fate/purpose..

[@thobilemditshwa8799]

Will is everything that happens in between you living your life, fate is what happens at the end of your will, or life. Some people let life happen and some people keep themselves occupied while waiting for life to happen. And fate and will don't have to be negative or positive, the two can go both ways

[@Alr1ghtyThen]

People like to associate "free will" with the ability to make a favorable choice out of all possible options. Sometimes the choices are not favorable no matter what you do. Just because you feel forced to choose a choice in order to avoid struggle, punishment or penalty it doesn't mean that you didn't have the CHOICE to go through that struggle, punishment or penalty. Of course nobody wants to do that but you CHOSE not to go through that and took the less favorable option to not feel it.

[@keyceandreas9254]

Growing old and dying, or well death period, is a fate thing. I think everything between life and death is free will.

[@Veribby]

I’m spiritual and grew up religious and I was always taught we had free will. Never taught we have preordained destiny. Otherwise why would any of us try to do anything at all? Why not just let life happen to us

[@airjordanian1989]

Ish looks like he's chosen to eat all the processed foods at the store. My guy has the I've been sitting on the couch eating all day body.

[@sjw4life546]

I think our destination in life is predetermined. I think the path we take to that destination is a free will parh.

[@pukkademps]

This is a good ass conversation.

[@phabcarter]

Is it?

[@pukkademps]

@@phabcarter yeah just hearing other perspectives makes me think. I’m not sure about either fate or free will but it was good to hear someone speak on this topic.

[@tryintomakeit]

Mel right is life's going right people think it's fate... and Joe is right there is no free will in America

[@munnymatt]

I love sundown town by vince staples

[@Wheel_VCL]

The only thing FREE in this world is AIR ain’t none FREE, not even FREEDOM!!!😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Ghostisback24444]

Exactly why I can’t stand people who support we have a government

[@rook9309]

I think they conflating free-will with “personal potential” in some of these examples.

[@FaithFallRepentGraceRepeat]

Free will is limited. Your fate is determined by the choices you make through influences of good, evil, etc. We live life on the rails of our society, government, lifestyle, influences, etc.

[@CrustaceousB]

Even if fate is real that doesn't change the fact that as a fallible person the position of not knowing what's about to happen means that you have the free will to choose what you're about to do. Whether or not there is some order Behind These choices and all of these experiences does not make you no longer have to experience it like this. Free Will is a description of our human experience. Determinism is the technical pieces behind it which we do not experience but technically live within

[@rey82rey82]

Expensive fate

[@user-bi1vc5re2k]

Hey Joe I u guys didn't mention what yall thought about Lauryn Hill performance

[@zachl5942]

Free will does not mean you are free of consequences where destiny there is no consequences for different choices because the outcome is the same. I have the free will to choose to punch somebody or not and the consequence is facing going to jail or not. And even in cases where something bad happens to you that’s completely out of your control, you still have the free will to choose how to deal with it. Personally I think fate/destiny is nothing more than the sum of choices you make with your free will.

[@truthseekingfreethinker5214]

Most people live with the illusion of control of their lives. Think on this, there are people who smoke 3 packs a day and live until they are 80, and then there are those who just get second-hand smoke and die early. Now what kind of control is that.

[@phabcarter]

They have the control of their decisions (to smoke or not to smoke) not control of the consequences. How is this level of understanding so hard to grasp for so many commenters?

[@truthseekingfreethinker5214]

@phabcarter but they dont. You're saying someone intentionally doing harm to themselves is a choice? If you can't see that something else is controlling them, i dont know what else to tell you. Nobody chooses to do harm to themselves.

[@WhatsthaControversy]

Joe with the hot takes

[@Lab90production]

I believe your fate is set based on your freewill choices

[@LucksackDan]

First off, certain things are predetermined (fated); your biology, environment, etc. Moreover, free will in part has to do with the ability to make your own choices/decisions free from the manipulation or control of others/forces. In reality, our fate is determined largely by our parents and upbringing, however it doesn't completely determine our outcome (it just has the probability to affect the outcome in a certain way-but we have the ability to alter our path/journey).Furthermore, the aspect of fate and free will are intimately linked. Obviously, there's some religious aspects to this discussion, but I'll omit for the purposes of simplicity Secondly, most people don't have free will due to social conditioning, manipulation by governments, organizations, etc., however; free will can give us the opportunity to make the decisions to put us in the best position possible for a desired outcome. All in all, free will is truly obtained (in my opinion) when you're able to reach a certain level of financial freedom where you're able to live the life that you want to live.

[@stevennkabinde4477]

Its a Balance bro !!!

[@jasonwilliams7966]

I think it's a lot of both

[@Uncut-sinkhole]

Exactly ish is crazy!! Da farmers can’t even work Dey land anymore

[@moeezyspanishletras]

Ish is just a lot smarter than them. Great way to school them

[@MrBeProvocative]

Of course you have free will, you've got no choice but to have it ;)

[@Demondcooks]

Hahaha very true, and that is our fate as humans!

[@DanielHernandez-ox2ri]

From a perspective in California...free will to a certain point.

[@realmensmellwell]

Their argument is more about how much you choose to allow yourself to be subject to the manipulation of the way our society is set up. Free will vs fate is a much broader conversation in the realm of existentialism in which the debate is centered around do you ACTUALLY make choices in your life? Or is everything pre-determined by a higher entity outside of humanity? For Marvel fans, think of the multiverse being allowed to exist or the Sacred Timeline being the only timeline that is allowed and present.

[@Gnsbehehehh]

Free will never makes sense. Every action is either determined by something else, or it’s random. Either way, no free will. Even if you have a soul, then something is causing *that* to have an action, or it’s random. Free will never enters the equation

[@jaytibee]

To an extent, I get that bringing govt into it makes it more about control and not fate. Also, for society to society, everyone can't entrepreneur. Everyone enjoys something because someone else is working to provide a service. Even in terms on health, modern medicine, etc. Workers are needed but there's a fine line that may cross into lack of choice...clearly from history lol.

[@WhatsthaControversy]

No point made!

[@logicsir5257]

I hate when they say this can get deep well yal about this later . I’d really like to hear yal full opinion on a lot of these things . I thought this was an interesting conversation .

[@WilliamDunlapKE]

Joe’s feet with the toes out is nasty work for a podcast! But I love you Joe! 💪🏾❤️ and we don’t have free will in America!

[@Ghostisback24444]

❤

[@shomarc]

The two are linked free will creates fate. Free will is the input and fate is the output. Just like twins can have different outcomes because their free will is different. Based on where you are in life and the resources you have at your disposal some things can be impossible so if you try at it you are "fated" to fail but your free will created that fate as you could try to do something else.

[@innerdimensionsinc.1281]

There is no free-will, free will means to do without consequences. Fate is something that must occur in your life. Simple

[@innerdimensionsinc.1281]

We have the illusion of free-will, by being promoted millions of choices as infinite possibilities when we only have a small outcome of possibilities in our control

[@pcaz23]

What happened to the other dude?

[@mariahwhitneycelinejanetmadona]

Why does this happen so much in black dude podcasts? Are they not listening to the question?

[@jeromejenkins151]

The Universe is a machine in complete balance with itself. Both Fate and Free Will are at work simultaneously. Not Fate as in no matter what decision you make you'll end up at a predetermined destination. Fate as in no matter what decision you make you'll end up exactly where you need to be. Now whether you recognize that or not is where Free Will comes into play Both Free Will and Fate hold hands with eachother the same way positive and negative run parallel. The way light and dark dont equate good and evil. Light and Dark run parallel. They define each other. Without one you wouldn't recognize the other if it were staring you in the face. Free Will and Fate work the exact same way. You need one to recognize when your facing the other. Take away 1 and the other ceases to exist or hold the same meaning.