Anycubic Photon Mono M5s Review - What ANYCUBIC DIDN'T SAY -

[@FauxHammer]

Buy the Anycubic Photon M5s Here: geni.us/PhotonM5s Buy the Anycubic Photon M5 Here: geni.us/PhotonM5 Get any printer working easily with the Photonsters XP Range Finder - www.thingiverse.com/thing:6023738 (watch my video for full instructions kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZ6TXq1vbJannbs) Join this channel to get access to perks: kzbin.info/door/_9Jsf3SP8aMJgn0xv5jHjAjoin Buy WARGAMER - The best Resin for Miniatures yesthats3dprinted.com/pages/wargamer?ref=FauxHammer 3D Printer Cleaning Mat: geni.us/3DPrinterCleaningMat (This and all Amazon links in our video description are affiliate links. Clicking these and making any purchase will earn us a commission from Amazon at no cost to you) This Video is part of our series looking for the Best 3D printer for Miniatures; www.fauxhammer.com/top-10/the-best-3d-printer-for-miniatures-models/

[@oswaldcobblebot]

Got this printer in my cart ready to check out, but then I found this video. You saved me! Thanks!

[@ckonnick]

Thank you for the thorough review! This will be my first resin printer. I hope your theory ends up being true. My pre-order is in, but I care about quality more than speed, but went with the M5s because of the auto leveling. Hopefully, better quality will be as easy as changing out the vat and resin. Honestly, it would be nice to have a high-speed and standard-speed option. Thanks again!

[@daemonishere]

Hey there, have you received the printer yet and what were your experiences in detail trying various resins? Thanks!

[@avjebs]

I was pretty sure that after your replies for the shorts comment, and after you've already said it's 99.9% the film, that you'll buy a new film, put it instead of this ACF and use frozen 8k like in your other videos and would include this testing in this video that took really long time to come up. Not to be rude, I thank you for your reviews and information, but this has stole 26 minutes from my life, you've added nothing new, and even subtracted the most (and only) important testing to a next video. When you said "If you've already preordered it please stop watching now" - this was acualy wrong because if the film replacement provides better details than the 8k midrange ones (with slow speed, 0.2mu hight, frozen 8k resin) for miniatures - then there is no reason for anyone to cancel it, or to choose the m5 instead, and we can enjoy both worlds.

[@Emtbtoday]

Please read this let me know what you think mate! Your matrix test prints ive been getting EXACTLY the same issues i kinda knownwhat is going on here its the resin! Anycubic dont like other resin as much as their own im testing elgoos new like ABS 2.0 resin in my mono 2, Thinking it's definitely Not compression as used it all the time it had to be something else? The Resin itself! And yes the exposure had to be set to near doube than what i would originally print at withy anycubic like abs! Now ive done this amd lowred my bottom layer to 4 instead of the 5 or 6 it was standard with ive got it printing perfectly! So try this if not got it dialed in yet mate! If it was brand new out the box and done this i would have come to same conclusion compression! But its not! Try anycubics resin in the printer and try the test again itll probably be perfect or near perfect than that phrozen resin used! You could always try what Dennic wang done and thickened up the scale in the slicer only upwards to pull the detail out slightly swch off the uniform scaling its better than using a raft! His models are cults if need thickened version of matrix but if you follow what i said at the start about me going through this with elgoos new 2.0 it was driving me crazy it really was, then finally got it perfect by changing them 2 settings! I would try it with anycubic resin first reset settings to default for that resin bet its good! So hope this helps you out

[@Sir-Chalz]

I've learned from video games not to pre order anything until you see the reviews! Thanks for your hard work and putting out these videos!

[@FauxHammer]

Callisto Protocol comes to mind...

[@bardoksvisions5390]

Looks like I’m gonna cancel my m5s preorder and get the m5 . I need that detail and not speed

[@magikarp2063]

Well they are basically the same printer minus the auto leveling that is cool but whatever, leveling takes 3 minutes and you basically never have to do it again. That being said I think its right that the ACF film is the problem and you can simply replace that with normal FEP. Seems like I will be doing the same for my mars 4 ultra when it arrives.

[@bardoksvisions5390]

@@magikarp2063 yeah looking at all of this I think they should had just put the acf and a fep into the Package and not squishing the „cool“ acf shit in our face 😂

[@rlira0908]

Same. Ima see if I can swap n if they'll honor the early bird cuz detail > speed Speed is nice, but that's too steep a trade for my liking

[@Roscodatosco]

@@bardoksvisions5390I agree high quality not high speed

[@dou8letap82]

Lol basing your purchase decisions on a youtubers opinion LOL hilarious 🤣

[@calrak]

I pre-ordered this as my first resin printer. I want to print DnD minis. I would be happy to print slower, with old FEP for better quality. I have been waiting for your thoughts and now I do not know what to do.... I assume I can cancel my order, but if you can show some quality prints with a normal FEP - I guess I would not cancel....

[@666Azmodan666]

same...

[@Gromic2k]

There is a guy here "Smathalgoth" in the comments, who said he has bought the same matte ACF film the M5s uses, and he does not have a quality loss in his prints. If he's right, the issue is not something we can solve by ourselves. By the way, i just canceled my preorder.

[@ingoliebig6206]

@@Gromic2k how did u cancel? There is no such function on the website for me

[@666Azmodan666]

@@Gromic2k note that its display shows a blurry image and a strange color compared to other youtubers. uv is purple on his video is blue...

[@Gromic2k]

@@666Azmodan666 can be the white balance of the camera

[@omelaurus]

I pre-ordered the m5s for ease of use and the speed so I’m not that concerned. However.. if it turns out that ordering a second vat and putting a clearer film in it gives me better prints when I do need it.. that would be a major bonus! Looking forward to your test!

[@PhotonicNoodle]

Really hope he tests this

[@10125Studios]

I just don't see auto leveling as a huge step forward for resin printers, at least not like it is on FDM printers. This first gen of 12k 10" printers looks like a hard pass. I appreciate the innovation but I'll stick with my mini 8k for now as I don't need the extra build plate area

[@tomhugues7033]

Hi Ross, I pre-ordered the M5s and was straight away concerned about the ACF due to being translucent. In my experience, the more distance you have between the LCD crystals and the resin in the vat (glass, screen protector, air gap, ...), the more light bleed you get and with the ACF diffusing the light "energy" on top of that you might end up in a loss of sharpness. I never put a screen protector for this reason and luckily never had a pierced film issue. I have yet to test the super thin nFEP/FEP for improving sharpness. I'm looking forward to see if a few changes would improve the sharpness from my mini 8k.

[@_SamUSA_]

I am also in the same pre-order boat as you. This idea of UV being "energy", not light, and is not being affected by ACF opaque diffusion of the light passing through the film is complete nonsense. UV is ordinary every day light that has unique properties that we take advantage of in our resin printers. PROOF: UV was discovered by using a prism that divided all incoming light.

[@Wenturi]

Just unpacked mine and now watched this.... DISAPOINTED. If you find a solution to problems in mentioned in this video, please post them.

[@_SamUSA_]

@@Wenturi The solution: Use it. It's really good at printing figures. If you need the absolute sharpest prints, install FEP.

[@Wenturi]

@@_SamUSA_ Thats it? I only need to install FEP if I want the absolute sharpest prints? Thanks man!

[@_SamUSA_]

@@Wenturi It needs to be tuned of course according to the resin and FEP changes, but yea, great detail now!

[@thatvanillagorilla]

Thank you for going so deep into the issues with this printer. I was so close to buying it, but I think I need to let this gen cook a bit and buy next gen.

[@dejanbrice8774]

Yeah I saw it, prepaid for the machine. Then cancelled it last week after watching so many videos of the reviews. I'll stick to Phrozen and elegoo.

[@BrickBazooka]

​@dejanbrice8774 but they aren't better.. :/

[@dejanbrice8774]

@@BrickBazooka They are far better. Why do you say they are not?

[@WIBRTyranT]

screen size is generally done by measuring from a bottom corner of a screen to an opposite top corner, diagonally across the screen. they do this all the time with computer monitors as well.

[@rhoalpha]

About the diffusion problem, it's opacity to visual light may be different to uv

[@supershotgun5300]

nice review although it would be interresting to know how the prints (for the minis) are when you use "regular" settings with normal resin

[@christophersteen1873]

You can put an extension cable on it, yes a bother but this makes it a lot easier, there are low form factor angled ones and everything.

[@RocketGeek]

A material can be "translucent" or "transparent" at different energy levels and/or wavelengths. Energy at a certain wave band lengths is also known as "light". The difference between white light and UV light may make that translucent ACF sheet more transparent. Also, the pixels on the M5s are rectangular, so what would happen to your test plates if you rotated them right 45 and 90 degrees?

[@carlanderson5068]

I came here to say the same thing. I'd really like to see the the rotated result, too.

[@Tawnos_]

Moreover, material can be similar to ulexite or selenite and maintain a 1:1 fiber-optic like parallel projection through the material. I don't know the properties of this sheet, but if the engineers are saying the perceived translucency isn't the cause of this issue, I'm inclined to believe them.

[@Blake-jl8lh]

"wave band lengths"

[@Bunyip_Studios]

it's fast resin, not "pour it on the top of your build plate because you think it looks cool" resin

[@cyberkyv]

Your video is incredible, I also saw Vogman, and apparently everything can point to the ACF sheet, it would be interesting if you could locate a PFA sheet for that tray and change it to test if those strange details are actually maintained in the final piece. Thanks for sharing

[@FauxHammer]

Normal M5 is on the way, I’ll use that vat.

[@Smathalgoth]

After some of the initial hype over these printers was going around, I actually sourced a sheet of this ACF film to experiment with on a Mono 4k. I have noticed zero difference in detail for the same exposure settings vs an NFEP sheet, and was able to get away with much higher lift speeds along with finer support tips than would reliably work for me previously. So I don't think the ACF film is to blame here. My guess would be this "12k" screen Anycubic and Elegoo have sourced is just crap, the rectangular pixels just being the tip of the iceberg of compromises.

[@FauxHammer]

@@Smathalgoth what resin are you using?

[@Smathalgoth]

@@FauxHammer Mostly Siraya Tech Fast, but also some Ameralabs TGM-7. The latter of which had the biggest improvements for list speed and support settings.

[@Gromic2k]

@@Smathalgoth can you try the same test Fauxhammer used in the video and share the results? I would love to know if you are able to get all the small details that the M5s misses

[@jaidenlee4128]

Thanks for the video, Ross. I’m disappointed as well. Bought this for 12k detail not fast printing. Looks like I will be going the Athena route. Also hope all is well with the wife. ❤

[@FauxHammer]

Glad you enjoyed it, and thanks it’s only a day op but sat now in recovery waiting for obs and the ok to go.

[@bradandteinacook3506]

I like from the video how a line moves up the model on the LCD to show how far the model is along.

[@upgrayedd9732]

I would bet money that if you replace the ACF film with nFEP this problem will disappear.

[@NuarStanger]

I see this over and over and over lately. Why do people pour the resin into the vat by pouring over the top of the build plate? Seriously curious.

[@TheRoamingbison]

Looks good on camera. Could also help disperse bubbles that were created from shaking up the resin bottle.

[@NuarStanger]

@@TheRoamingbison i see. Thank you!

[@avjebs]

Maybe I can enjoy both worlds and not cancel the preorder? My convo with Anycubic: Me: hi, I've seen some reviews showing worst details for m5s 12k then older 8k and they said anat Anycubic said its less detailed and more speedy, and if you wand actually good details you should buy the M5... It is actually annoying, but they also said that maybe if I change the ACF film to a regular film I'll get all the details like using the M5. can you check it for me please? Anycubic representative: Hi Let me check with our team Hi The ACF film itself has a frosted surface, which can cause some loss in precision. However, in practical printing processes, if the laver thickness is 0.05mm, the difference in precision between the ACF film and the NEP film will not be significant. If you switch from ACF to NFEP film, under the same layer thickness conditions, the printing quality will be slightly better with NFEP, consistent with traditional machines. However, using NFEP film will significantly reduce the printing speed. Hello It's ok to achieve the same effect if you use NFEP. However, please note that you cannot the high speed mode

[@FauxHammer]

Thankyou and I rest my case...

[@avjebs]

@@FauxHammer still must see your review to see how the exposure tests ends up :)

[@Bunyip_Studios]

get a worktop silicone mat for baking, they're bigger and cheaper

[@TheJaredAllen]

Thanks for your diligent testing, I haven't cancelled my M5s pre-order yet, I am hoping that you are right, and these issues can be fixed by replacing the release film. Looking forward to those reviews.

[@FauxHammer]

I could be wrong, but i am super confident I'm not.

[@pavelbotezat808]

Just got an answer for Anycubic: About the effect of using ACF: The ACF film has a thickness of 0.3mm and a matte surface on the bottom, which differs from the 0.15mm smooth FEP release film. Due to the light scattering phenomenon within the resin vat, the ACF film may slightly affect the surface details of the printed model. Specifically, it could result in a decrease in the model's matte finish and the appearance of minor fine lines. However, in practical printing scenarios using non-high-speed resin with a layer thickness of 0.05mm, 16x anti-aliasing, grayscale 0, and blur 3 settings, the print quality is comparable to that of the M5. Moreover, the light scattering effect of the ACF film can actually improve the anti-aliasing performance compared to FEP.

[@FauxHammer]

so, when you print with 16x AA!!! That's a lot!

[@brianhickling1867]

So we are really getting there! That now admitted light scattering of the ACF may indeed "improve" anti-aliasing, which is in fact blurring, if you are fast printing with the 0.1mm layers or normal printing at 16x anti-aliasing with 3 blur settings but your high definition models will always suffer. So a M5 or M5s with nFEP will always outperform as regards accuracy of printing compared to using ACF. I commend Anycubic for honesty here but I strongly suggest they ship with two resin vats one with ACF for speed another with nFEP for accuracy... before more customers jump boat.

[@FauxHammer]

@@brianhickling1867 I told them the exact same thing. Though i suggested a fep sheetonly rather than a whole vVAt to keep costs down. This is still one of the best Vats of all the brands

[@JN-sr1yh]

16x anti-aliasing... 🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂🙃🙂🤣🤣🤣

[@dorbie]

With all the other data points these symptoms can only really be image convolution, either through diffusion in the film, distance from the screen or lack of collimation in the throw (depending on the system), unless the display itself is jank which I doubt. There aren't that may variables. It can't be about exposure, it's about acuity on the fluid boundary plane. Basically blurriness due to diffusion, contact offset or display problems. Their engineers saying UV is energy not light is troubling nonsense.

[@HelloNotMe9999]

Put the cleaning station on the opposite side. Solved. As to the diffusion issue, wavelength will play a huge part and I suspect the UV light is far too short for it to matter?

[@FauxHammer]

But then I’m working right to left nit left to right lol. No, it matters, I’ve tested a few of these now

[@retromodernart4426]

@FauxHammer Is that ACF on the M5S transparent when you put it onto a flat surface? For example, if you put it on a paper with some text on it, does it still look "cloudy"? Just for reference, the Aorita ACF is perfectly transparent when it's on a flat surface. Also, ACF (which is almost certainly "Amorphous Cellulose Film", bonded to a silicone substrate) is ~6% less transmissive of UV than FEP or PFA. Good, thorough, informative review, thanks for all that effort, it's appreciated!

[@TheRoamingbison]

I strongly suspect that part of the overexposure issues are from too much UV power. I have seen similar issues in other printers. Is the UV backlight adjustable in the slicer? If so, try setting it to 50% and do your RERF again. I am willing to bet that it increases print quality considerably at the cost of slightly higher exposure times.

[@FauxHammer]

you can't lower the exposure on this in the slicer i had. But in my experience on numerous other printers, lowering exposure and having the light on longer exacerbates this issue rather than helps resolve it. all this ever does is result in the resin potentially being a bit softer at the end of the print. Fast curing = more brittle prints.

[@TheRoamingbison]

@@FauxHammer Oh well, that's a bummer. In Lychee and Chitubox you can lower the UV PWM and it greatly improves print quality. I know other Anycubic printers were recommended to run at 60% UV power for many resins. I think this printer was designed to print fast, not to print clean so they put a super bright LED on it. The original Epax E10 had the same problem, UV too bright for standard resins so there was a ton of bloom.

[@brianhickling1867]

@@TheRoamingbison Yep! They use a 480:1 contrast panel compared to the 300:1 one on their 8K printers so a 60% output increase. I think that sloppy fast resin needs the power!

[@rowey111]

Would love to see a follow up with the film replaced

[@waltperko8389]

Hi, I learned the hard way, but the video should also start with a warning about the fumes from the resins. I now have a simple ritual of wearing one glove on my left hand, moving the print bed up near the top so there is room to tilt the print bed at an angle to allow more excess resin to drip back into the printer before pulling the whole thing out.

[@AndrewSacoman]

Had backed this early but cancelled in favor of a Sonic Mini 8ks because of delivery dates. No regrets.

[@papadage]

You can get a low-profile USB drive so you can still plug it into the side, or just get your own extension and affix the end under the front of the machine.

[@FauxHammer]

Thanks, good tips

[@papadage]

@@FauxHammer , Cheers. I am loving your practical reviews as I look to get my first 3D printer.

[@frbrbrgrblgrr7777]

I’m curious about the Elagoo 12k and then I’ll decide after

[@hand8007]

I bought this printer wanting auto leveling, that juicy build volume and I print at .02mm Layer height.speed is not what I want. I’m listening to the video but would you suggest I send it back? I have a Saturn 2 but I want as much detail as possible. The leveling has been an issue for me because some prints seem to affect it. Should I return and get a dlp instead or just wait. Or keep and hope for firmware or better film? It’s literally coming tomorrow and I’m unsure I should keep it while I have a saturn2

[@magikarp2063]

Please compare the ACF film to normal FEP. I've preordered the mars 4 ultra and I wanna know if I should just instantly switch the VAT to normal FEP.

[@waynehawkins654]

I got one of these and first time using today. I wish they had move video on the clean up. I made a mistake on my first clean up. After emptying the vat, it had bits stick to the vat, so as carefully as I did try to remove by scraping, bad mistake. I should have run the vat clean and remove this way with one go. Hopeful not creating problem, but I can see visual lines now. I went to order another vat to have anyway, but you cannot as yet in New Zealand. Putting on the screen protector - oh my. Like you said, it has air gaps on the bevel of the screen. But for me, I have some air bubbles that I am sure is creating problem when I try to print flat services like a cube box that is required for the job I paid to buy this printer. To hold PCB boards. Time for my second print, a box with a lid, well this did not turn out well at all. The flat top of the lid was not flat, and the resin did not set right. I'm going to remove the screen protector and try again another day. Other screen protecters are on order and to be honest, like a cell phone, I just never use them. Only two prints so I will keep playing and learning. As a beta release I got 6 lots of 1KG of fast resin. I wish they had ship others to play with. Look forward to your review on the non- s version. I hope I have not made a mistake but it was not a large amount of money anyway.

[@piotrstygar9208]

"UV is not light, it's energy" - never heard something more stupid then the Creality technicians said. Every light is an energy. UV used in resin printers is just a little shorter wavelength than visible light and it can be scattered exactly the same way as a visible light. It is possible, that some material is perfectly transparent for some wavelengths, but in my opinion it's more likely that infrared (longer wavelength) will go through without scattering in this case than ultraviolet. So I totally agree, that the film might be an issue.

[@erlinghagendesign]

Some notes on automatic leveling and AFC: 1. Force detection for automatic bed leveling: There is a printed circuit board (electronic sensor board connected to the main board in the lower housing) in the head under the large round screw to which the print platform is attached. Nothing mechanical under the tray. In fact, that would be trivial, not smart, and prone to error. When the platform is pressed down, the flexible part (AFC) deforms so that the screen part adheres firmly to the pressure platform. At the same time, the machine detects the pressure between the pressure platform and the screen component (AFC) and uses a preset value to determine whether leveling is complete. Once the preset value is reached, printing can begin. Therefore, do not replace the AFC film with another film. Pressure scanning would then no longer be possible. 2. AFC ( yes translucent ): I recommend to use the supplied original R.E.R.F.stl file ( R_E_R_F" (Resin Exposure Range Finder) ) for each resin type for this printer. 8 different exposure models are printed in time steps of 0.25s (1.5s-3.25s) and are really intelligently modeled. You can download it from Support / Model Download. Each model has a number that refers to the exposure time and a very detailed explanation is provided. In general, speed vs. resolution: the application/resin determines the choice and requirements. There is no general golden rule. You need to match the 12K to your needs and you will get great results. Have fun printing - Herri in China. PS: the current Wash bucket (Wash & Cure Pro) is not large enough for the 10.1in platform. Models need to be removed to be washed and cured. That is really a pity in the moment. There is a larger bucket in development, but no availability time is scheduled yet.

[@avjebs]

Hi, di you work in the industry? According to what you say p, one can not replace the film on the M5S. It’s interesting and I wonder if you have tested it.

[@avjebs]

@fauxhammer did you see this?

[@FauxHammer]

Just now yes

[@FauxHammer]

What is your source for all of this information? It’s all very interesting. But forgive my need to request validation?

[@erlinghagendesign]

@@FauxHammer Hello, I'm sorry, I don't know your name. Direct sources: Anycubic + Aorita. And of course my general engineering knowledge. I built 3D printers and CNC machines myself years ago, just out of necessity and interest. But then I gave that up when the local offers got better and better. In the meantime, I have many very good partners here in China. Basically, I can realize anything I want. My only wish: there is a large audience following you and others reviewing the latest equipment, but when I read many comments from irritated and disappointed followers, I thought it would be better to provide some clarity to restore confidence in the latest technology. And to clarify: I am not affiliated with anyone, just passionate about the creation and methods of doing so. The recent products from Bambu Lab and other great developers show what is possible when skill and conviction are used to get very good tools into the hands of many people at incredibly low prices. I am grateful for that. Herri

[@rodsawhite]

Once again I love your content and your well presented and reasoned opinions and theories.

[@FauxHammer]

Thanks so much

[@madsgram9962]

Thank you so much. I bought it to do tabletop miniatures, so this was a big help! Ive send Anycubic a mail to cancel my preorder.

[@CookieManCookies]

You go back and forth on this. Based on what they provide you, and what they're selling, a "easy to use" printer. The quality isn't there, so it's not worth buying. You shouldn't need to contact support to get it to print more detail, it should work out of the box.

[@FauxHammer]

I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something new they added that I wasn't aware of

[@jp.girardi]

M3 line also had a translucent FEP, so i don't know, but i hope you figure it all out

[@FauxHammer]

It was much clearer. I had the M3. M5 is the same, this is specific to the M5s

[@the_average_canadian]

Edit: sounds like a misunderstanding on my part, check the comment chain for further info. Gotta give a differing opinion here. I don't think it's necessarily fair to say a printer has layer lines and low quality while only printing at 0.1mm layer height. Any printer will have visible lines at that point. The release film and exposure is definitely worth further testing and investigation, especially using other resin. More testing is needed for sure, I'm curious to see if you do any other tests in time for me to decide whether I want to cancel my pre order!

[@FauxHammer]

I don’t understand how that’s unfair. Any print with 0.1mm layers will have layer lines and poor quality when compared to the 0.05mm layers that people typically use. It’s got nothing to do with the printer. As you say, any printer will ab e visible lines at that point. Again, I don’t get what you are saying this point is unfair. But then also validate the same point

[@the_average_canadian]

@Fauxhammer Maybe I worded my initial comment poorly. My intention was to differentiate the criticism of the printer from the criticism of the print settings. As we both agree, any printer using 0.1mm layer height will suffer from quality issues, it's got nothing to do with the specific printer. My impression from the video was that you were attributing this low quality to the printer itself, rather than the settings, which is what I took issue with. From your reply to my comment, it sounds like that was a misunderstanding on my part and probably wasn't your intention. Either way, it sounds like we're both on the same page! Love your content, keep it up bro.

[@dkeyuk]

Gutted, was hoping this would be a good first step into resin printing. Just cancelled my pre-order, back to the drawing board i guess, as probs need to wait 6-12 months for the newer speed and quality features to mature enough. Ideally I was looking for something that could do quick prototypes and still do high quality final prints, the auto leveling was a bonus too. ☹ As ever @FauxHammer, great and real reviews. I really appreciate the honest approach inc. the shorts . Keep up the great work.

[@FauxHammer]

Thanks, you do realise you could have kept your preorder and just replaced the ACF sheet?

[@dkeyuk]

@@FauxHammer Yeah, I saw at the end of the vid you said about swapping the film out, but hadn't yet tested it as wanted to get the vat from the M5. I actually pre-ordered it based on Vogs video, as it was "ok" and the main issues he seemed to talk about was the lack of quality jump from 12k to 8k (even a slight step down due to the rectangular pixels) without really having issues with the film. I had orignally looked at getting the 8KS, but after that I thought the marginal quality loss for the ability to prototype would be worth it. But needing to buy a new film for a new printer and dial that in (as i'm a complete newbie to resin) would mean i am more likely to get worse results thatn either of you two pillars of printing 😊

[@Hartwig870]

Good for you. Shitty practices shouldn't be rewarded. Replacing things out of the box isn't a reasonable solution.

[@YourAverage_J0e]

@@Hartwig870 how is it a shitty practice? The printer is marketed for its speed. literally the 5"S". the film is designed for speed. that comes with trade offs

[@ChristmasEve777]

I'm sorry about my comment on that video where you kept blurring images. It was meant to be helpful criticism 😃BUT I continued to watch your videos anyway and I"m so glad I did! When you said the resin was brittle, did you just mean the high speed resin? How is Anycubic's standard resin when printed at normal speed? I'm looking at buying one of their 3D printers and I want things like clasps and buckles to be strong.

[@dishierosprey2798]

in the review, you said from the words of technical support that the m5s will not be able to print as clearly as the m5 because of the speed, but earlier you said that the m5s will print better if we change a film on it. So what is better to choose for detailing prints: buy an m5s and change the film on it, or buy an m5 ?

[@FauxHammer]

I can't be 100% until I test the M5. it arrives Monday, so I should be testing by mid next week.

[@kevinfutter]

Just a note about semantics: the ACF is *translucent*, not *opaque*. The latter term means "blocks light completely", and is the binary opposite of *transparent*, which means "blocks no light at all". Everything between those two binary end points is, well, translucent!

[@ajc4477]

Delighted I didn't buy one of these, thank god for you and Vog - the other "reviewers" barely had a bad word to say about it. The auto level is pointless (never had an issue manually levelling a resin printer) and the "12K" aspect is a bit of a con. I still think the Saturn 2 is a better option and there's nothing to stop anyone installing ACF for faster prints.

[@FauxHammer]

Isn’t @VOGMAN an absolute hero… he really helped me out on this.

[@garymckenzie9307]

yet another excellent review, potentially saving us from a purchase not suitable for certain requirements. Keep up the great work!

[@drune6212]

I will be interested to see if it is the film dropping quality, it could result in people buying a second vat with PFA so they have a "fast vat" and a "detailed vat". Great review as always!

[@Todestelzer]

5:03 if they cheap out on things like this (bad usb placement) I wonder where they cut corners on other things too…

[@OneRandom123]

Why do you pour the resin over the top of the build plate? Is there function there or is it just for show?

[@FauxHammer]

It's just for show. but possibly the most common question i get.

[@muhammadsammy9484]

Thanks for the great review, can't wait to see what it would look like with normal PFA (nFEP) sheet, if that is the real culprit....honestly I'm assuming it's the sprint system on the screen, maybe it's designed so that it pushes further than normal each layer, and that's how it's detecting failures or things that are stuck... This would mean that the force sensors on the printer are not very sensitive, and it requires slightly more force than normal to get the layers in One way to test that would be to check for Z height accuracy, compared to XY, if my hypothesis is correct, you're Z accuracy would be lower than normal, when using the same resin compared to other printers I'm on the fence of cancelling my order, I ordered a few of this printer because of the amazing price and features, but it seems all too good to be true

[@BrickBazooka]

did you cancel your order?

[@muhammadsammy9484]

@@BrickBazooka no I have not

[@BrickBazooka]

@@muhammadsammy9484 why not?

[@muhammadsammy9484]

@BrickBazooka I don't want to base my whole decision on 1 review, and I'll try some troubleshooting of my own in one of the machines. If it doesn't work, I'll return the rest.. I have a ton of different types of sheets, so I'll test that out first with different resins, but if it has to do with the plate leveling system there won't be anything to do about that. I also want to test the Z and XY accuracy, I want to know if the tension from the springs affects the Z accuracy and if the rectangular pixels affect the XY accuracy

[@kaijuh]

Deciding between this and the Elegoo saturn 3 12k ultra. The print quality does seem higher on the Saturn but what is your opinion?

[@FauxHammer]

The prints are sharper on the Saturn 3 than on the M5. But I have not used the Ultra. The Ultra uses ACF film which also slightly blurrs the image. My supposition is that it won't do it as much as the M5 will, but it will do a bit.

[@kaijuh]

@@FauxHammer I ended realizing that the saturn 3 was just way to big for how I would use this. I am going to print infantry size minis 95% of the time. So I ended deciding between the mars 4 ultra and the mars 3. Once I saw Uncle Jesse had to use a digital microscope to see any actual differences between 4k and 8k, I just didnt see the point of spending 2x the money. The wireless is nice but I dont mind walking an USB to my printer once in a while since I wont be printing like a madman

[@markoramljak9579]

I was on the fence about buying an M5s or Saturn 3 (the regular one, not the ultra).. decided to go with Saturn 3.. I like the idea of auto leveling but I think Anycubic underutilized the force detection technology.. and I don't want to compromise quality for speed.. especially seeing what kind of issues you're having because of the new fep film.. and cheers on the best M5s review on YT!

[@FlesHBoX]

lol "UV is energy not light"..... wooooow.... I hope to god you were just talking to some marketing or sales person when they said that, and not like, someone who is supposed to be knowledgeable about the product, lol. wow... just.... wow... And in case anyone doesn't know... the definition of "UV" is specifically shorthand for "Ultraviolet light", specifically light within 100 to 400nm wavelength. Further, UV radiation is affected by scattering, just like visible light. just... wow.

[@FauxHammer]

I was told that the Creality Tech team said this… I laughed. Now you understand on a new level why that review was so harsh.

[@FlesHBoX]

@@FauxHammer lol, amazing I wonder if they actually believe that, or if it's just outright dishonesty, thinking that their customers are all too stupid to catch it, lol.

[@andymeenanvideos]

I imagine Anycubic like the great Wizard of Oz, pull back the curtain, and it is just one man running the whole company.

[@PatrickSamphire]

UV light is light. Take it from this physicist. It is just as easily diffracted, refracted, and reflected as visible light. (All light is, of course, also energy.) The technicians are spouting nonsense.

[@FauxHammer]

But… but… Creality told me it was Energy…

[@Skulltap]

For some reason my comment was deleted, not sure if something got triggered in the youtube algorithm, but I'll try again just in case. Thank you for the much deeper dive on the M5s! It really highlighted the small detail and normal resin usage that seemed to be mostly skipped on other reviews. While I did get in on the early bird pricing, I'm still on the fence about if I should just cancel the order. The first and foremost reason is how they seem to be treating their pre-order customers. The M5 and M5s are both available and are shipping out on amazon, but the pre-orders are not being fulfilled yet.

[@FauxHammer]

oof, that's at least a better reason to cancel than - i watched your video and now think this printer is crap - because i hope I showed, it isn't - it's a really, really good printer. I'm not sure who handles the Amazon shipping weather that's Anycubic or a third part supplier, that could be the answer.

[@Skulltap]

@@FauxHammer I reached out to Anycubic support and they said: "I am sorry that anycubic official website and anycubic Amazon belong to different operation departments. The inventory management of the two is different." Ok, but it doesn't really address the fact that the first shipments from manufacturing are obviously not going to the pre-orders.

[@FauxHammer]

@@Skulltap Welcome to how Chiinese companies do customer service. we wouldn;t tell you any different in the UK, but we would also avoid allowing shipments to go that way and have better control of distribution. It's probably a cultural difference, hI can only presume it;s hard to operate cleanly overseas.

[@Skulltap]

​@@FauxHammer If it was just local sales that were opened first then I could rationalize it enough. Not be particularly happy, but at least rationalize it. I have seen the same thing with kickstarters as well. The logistics cost on the pre-orders being from all over the world can't be cheap or easy for them, but sending it to the amazon warehouses first is a dirty move. At the end of the day, its really about the money and I understand it. I don't have to like it, but its a reality. If the cost was closer to that early bird pricing I'd be real tempted to cancel and purchase through amazon just because of the ease with amazon returns here in the states.

[@Now-YouKnow]

Great job, but Im confused Did you run the test with regular resin {maybe 8k} and using the not speed setting? or was everything done with the speed settings and the fast resin which we know sacrifices detail (big time)

[@FauxHammer]

I used 8k resin at the normal speeds I have used on all my older printers. I slowed it down to the speeds it should typically work at

[@terrain4print]

Lol at the "This is energy, not light".

[@Vorpal_Wit]

I don't think this Machine is "Auto-leveling" and there are no leveling sensors. The display is simply riding on top of springs allowing it to flatten against the build plate. I suspect that this is why to more flexible film is required - because the build plate is pushing down into the vat more than a standard manually leveled printer. If my guess is correct, stiffer less flexible films used on this printer may be prone to breakage.

[@brianhickling1867]

My fear as well! The much thicker ACF has totally different compression qualities to nFEP film. At best the risk is auto leveling fails (and you do not have any manual means) at worst you put excess pressure onto the panel eventually causing damage!

[@qzl9]

Hello Faux Hammer. Im currently using a Photon Mono X printer, and was looking at this one in particular. I dont care about speed prints really, i dont mind a print takes 6 hours, as long as i get nice results. What are your current favorite printer in the 500 ish price range for miniatures?

[@AzureYukiPoo]

Thank you for this. Will not cancel my pre-order. But really hope anycubic adds the accessory of changing the release film

[@FauxHammer]

You can just buy the NFEP fir the M5 and it will go on this

[@Gromic2k]

I did just cancel my preorder. I will rather wait another year to make sure those issues gets resolved.

[@FauxHammer]

@@Gromic2k I'm not sure what you mean by issues? did you misunderstand the video? There is no issue. It's just the release film you get with it. You can either swap that film or not. Waiting won't resolve the problem?

[@Gromic2k]

​@@FauxHammer The issue is that it prints worse than my 4k printer. And changing the film is not something i want to do with my new printer. We don't even know if that causes new problems and stuff. It's all just guessing. Even Anycubic claims that this is not the problem by saying that the "UV-Energy does not interfere with the matte film"^^. By the way i just had an answer from Anycubic, they say it's your fault. Quote: "We appreciate and value your feedback. The printing effect of the M5s is very good. If the printing effect is not good, it may be a problem with the settings. Do you consider keeping the order?" And i hate being lied to. The 3x faster is a lie, the 12 inch is a lie, the 19 micrometer is a lie. And their response here is also a lie. They are small lies, but they add up. "Print effect" - what does that even mean^^ Edit: i just saw that post from Smathalgoth, he claims that its not the film, since he uses these ACF sheets without a quality loss. So maybe they are right about the film and there really is an issue with the screen.

[@richardhertz7345]

Sounds like half your gripes begin with the phrase "I wrongly assumed... " 😂

[@infantrymanejb358]

So what printer do I need for quality minis with great detail? I’m not worried about speed.

[@ghostrangerp.8819]

Hi there Faux...I have worked for over 20 years in tech and have tried to collaborate with Elegoo to help them better their products but every time I tried to assist them they were un denial that the 3d printers had some type of defect that could of been made better for the same of the customer so yeah I know what your talking about in this video...plus more...

[@stepahinigor]

Can I clarify which printer made the tests you are comparing to, where the fine details are almost perfect and the edges are not smoothed 17:36 (right), 23:53 (top)?

[@FauxHammer]

basically any of the 8k printers, kzbin.info/www/bejne/j4Sun2iheLylf6ssi=TCd4sHgvUaapMGzs

[@blaccteezy]

The prints would come off easier with heat or hot water for sure.

[@TheIronNoodle]

You know ive got an idea. Im buying an extra vat and putting normal FEP on it so i can have a "true"(ish) 12k printer for my detailed prints and a faster printer. Best of both worlds!

[@Emtbtoday]

If you are correct and is that new film then good luck changing it! I run a couple anycubics the frame doesn't splice the whole fep and frame are one peice saves so much time but you probably wont get one with a clear fep as not intended use for this printer unless you can swap it with the M5 is the vat is the same size?ndoes this m5s have a splitable fep frame? I dont know but im guessing no?

[@TheCreativeCollector]

I gave up on Anycubic when the M3 Max came out and it took nearly a year to get to working. Anycubic customer service was horrible. I'm still on the fence about any of these 12K printers because so far I haven't seen any real visible difference in the 8K versus the 4k or 6k.

[@davethepak]

Thanks for the video - your candid reviews are very valuable. This thing sounds ...like dud. I mean - being faster with .1 - well, any of my printers will be faster printing 2x or 5x thicker layers.... one note - THANK YOU - for showing trying to remove that resin - it looks incredibly brittle. Finally "energy not light" - um....that is one of the most silly things I have ever heard - especially considering the resin cures at a certain frequency of LIGHT (that energy is in photons). This printer sounds like it may indeed have some useful new features (error detection sounds amazing....if we know how it actually works) but overall - this sounds like a total hard pass on this printer.

[@brnktv]

They didn't "round" up or down when it came to the resolution. There are different standards for resolutions. 4K UHD is 3840 x 2160 pixels (standard for most computer monitors and TV's), but then there is 4096 x 2160 pixels (DCI 4K), which is what they use in the cinema. This is the same deal. They used the more widely recognized standard as 12k isn't even *really* a thing yet. Shit, 8K is barely even a thing yet.

[@ConspiracyLoon]

Don’t buy this printer: I bought 2x M5s 2x wks ago as a package with wash n cure plus. Completely inappropriate that the build plate doesn’t fit the wash and cure plus. Regardless, nothing sticks to the build plates, the autolevelling doesn’t work. I managed to level the bed by homing with it loose and then tightening. Alas, still not sticking to bed - I’ve been through every forum and anycubic support, base layers tried upto 2mins exposure, with a resin that sticks to everything else with ease… Am now sending the whole package back for refund, wish me luck!

[@mackbolan1733]

Thanks for the thorough review, much appreciated. I had this on pre-order, but as the reviews rolled in and I realised it wasn't want I wanted, I cancelled it...I'm after the best possible detail capture and surface quality, not speed. I like the idea of auto-levelling, however I don't trust that the auto-level system in this printer is a robust system that will keep working flawlessly for at least a couple of years, I suspect that those spinrgs and the compression on the screen will end up causing problems over the short-medium term.

[@BrickBazooka]

so you gonna buy elegoo saturn 3?

[@mackbolan1733]

@@BrickBazooka Yes, Saturn 3 Ultra and I'll get a spare vat. One vat will have nFEP for printing miniatures and the other ACF for printing terrain pieces for gaming.

[@Emtbtoday]

And this is why i am holding out on this 5s and the elgoo 12k as both use exactly the same chiu LEDs with rectangular streched pixels amd leaves like scrach crosshatch lines in your prints!. I bought the mono 4k as a first printer its excellent but way to small so boght the the mono 2 on promotional deal cheap and with free wash and cure for well under what i paid for the 4k! Only its has the correct screen size pixels for a true 4k as why they call it now a 4k plus and will print as good as any 8k printer out there and their not wrong! Im absolutely blown away with the mono 2 if only it had a 10in build plate i think it would be the perfect printer! Big statement but stand by that 100% and hope anycubic see this and make a 10in version with nothing else changed! Its a printer that doesn't need nothing but scaled up!

[@Ahnoll]

The thing about uv being energy and not light, and vice versa, is nonsensical. Uv light, yes light, is one of many forms of radiant energy. The energy transfer in the light absorption is what causes stuff like radiation burns from uv exposure, and this resin to cure. In other words, the creality tech saying “Nono it’s energy” needs to take a very basic physics class. Loving your vids btw!

[@FauxHammer]

Yeah, I was glad to get more digs in at creality in this video becasue i didn't have the time to complain about them enough in my Mage Pro vid.

[@TalosToro-l8d]

just bought one but I already owned a mars 4 only problem I had was leveling it because it could get a single successful print after I had a the benchy print for some reason

[@aqhan]

Yeah, that's a no to me. Buffing up speed and print times for marketing, by forcing people to use FDM level layer heights to achieve that, is a cheat of the highest degree. I can can forgo inflated marketing claims, until they are pure lies. I can understand special resin, but with that alone, this will not be as quick then.

[@GlerpidyGlarson]

0:09 seconds.... And I feel the same fucking pain... I beat everything in that game.... Because my ex told me to take my time and see everything before the final boss..... I just feel like I went through vietnam again

[@JustMe-kp8ik]

Its energy not light has to be one of the dumbest things I've heard from these companies. Light has energy (e=hf). Uv has higher frequencies than visible so higher energy which means its transmission and diffraction properties going through a material will be different to that of visible light bit just saying its not light is utter bollocks.

[@alanpreston1822]

Been waiting for this one. I got my preorder in, and I am sticking with it as i need more build volume, this is Anycubic's premier option, and I dont think they will leave this without improvement over time. The Athena is a Kickstarter, so delivery is in question, and the cost looks to be 2X this unit if not more. This has the features I am looking for at the right price from a dependable company. It will work well alongside my Mars 3 Pro. I can pump out terrain fast.

[@anab0lic]

Printing terrain in resin? Fdm is a better choice for that tbh.

[@alanpreston1822]

@@anab0lic if you dont mind it taking 2 days for some simple walls and stringing at a critical part of a print when a single small issue on a support failed.

[@anab0lic]

@@alanpreston1822 you won't have that issue if you buy one of the faster fdm printers thats now on the market. Printing terrain in resin is considerably more expensive, the end result is more brittle, heavier and you have to faf around with a whole bunch of Post print cleanup, washing curing, triming supports etc etc. Most terrain stls are optimized for fdm too,, so you will have to manually cut up and key all the peices and maybe hollow it all out too. Oh and If the terrain is designed well, it doesn't need support to be printed on an fdm printer.

[@Gromic2k]

​@@anab0lic FDM printed terrains look terrible. On every FDM printer.

[@chriswebb9375]

@@anab0lic There is also the consideration that if you have a resin printer already buying an FDM printer only to print terrain makes that terrain very expensive. If you are buying a printer (don't already have one, or are adding a second) then look at the use case, if it is only to print terrain absolutely buy FDM over resin, if however you are buying a printer and want to print miniatures and some terrain I would expect resin is the more cost effective solution.

[@omelaurus]

Did you remember how to change a FEP film already? I don’t see why this isn’t tested yet.. changing the new film with clear FEP should be a small task..

[@toddbarber7590]

Anybody know why this printer is estimated for an August delivery date right now, but can be bought on Amazon and delivered in like a week? Is it a scalper or what?

[@CF_Collector]

Is this a bigger printer than the mono x?

[@FauxHammer]

i never had a mono X

[@snowko.raspados]

hello. I want to first say that I am truly and deeply grateful to you. It is common for most reviews of sponsorship to cleverly hide the flaws and highlight the strengths. So I think it is more difficult to find accurate and honest information in this age of overflowing information. In the meantime, thank you so much for watching your many videos. I fell in love with your cautious but at least trying to convey the facts. I already have an anycubic mono X2 and have been searching and searching for a lot of printer information for a long time to buy a better printer. Honestly, except for the small bed of the mono X2, it's already a nice enough printer for me. But at the same time I wanted a printer, so I was trying to buy the anycubic M3 premium model, but at the same time, the sale stopped and I suddenly found a new printer. Recently I was very excited to see a 12k, self-leveling printer, but I couldn't afford the m5s. The reason is, will the print be good enough to realize 12k with my own eyes? Will the automatic leveling system create another issue? For example, the sensor is broken, or the spring is broken. Anyway, I'm not sure if you'll read my comment, but I really appreciate you. Thank you so much for updating this accurate review so quickly. As expected, I was convinced that an 8k printer would suffice and the fast speed was a bit of a trick. ps: I am Korean. I just wanted to say thanks to you so I used Google Translate. If my English is strange, I ask for your understanding. :)

[@petercallison5765]

Due to all the new models coming out you can find some real bargains. I just bought a couple Saturn 8k printers. If you want the best prints, then maybe the Mars 4 9K printers.

[@Emtbtoday]

Anycubic have there bottom layers standard set to 30 reduce it to 20 or 20 this is what i have done personally as with the new type etched build plate it just sticks like god knows what and will not fall off! I've tried lol 20 is what mine is at but you can lower it bit by bit to suit you, it is still soild but once get your blade under each of the 4 corners and the print will break loose youll hear that satisfying break free and the whole print will just come loose from the middle! don't try and go right under from one side as soon as dried it sticks more when IPA dries off, you'll damage print and cut into plate! Thank me later it's changed the way i remove prints for good! Never broke a print this way yet! Touch wood lol

[@GranRejit]

I'd wish I could have seen this video before. I orderer it and I super regret. Low quality prints are meh, but the main issue is perma print fails, no matter what solution I try, it just never work. Either the auto leveling, the shitty quality of the Anycubic resin or idk but i get 24/7 perma failures. I regret so much buying this 3d printer

[@FauxHammer]

So sorry to hear that. It should at least be working

[@danteinferno6513]

Thank you, I resisted to FOMO and didn't pre-order it before your review, because I also suspected something wrong with this new machine( and because build volume is weird) I sincerely hope that you will review tthe M5 and Saturn 3, because I think that Saturn 3 ultra is also designed for speed over quality...The only thing that makes me hesitate to buy the Saturn 3 is the old build plate with only 2 screws, I heard that It is a mess?( with 4 screws leveling doesnt change for years I think)

[@FauxHammer]

Saturn 3 arrive like 20 mins ago and M5 is on it's way.

[@danteinferno6513]

Ok so I have to wait few days more to be able to choose one of them , thanks 😉

[@FauxHammer]

@@danteinferno6513 probably a couple of weeks to do but he printers justice

[@jjjnnn7258]

Yo, FauxHammer you doing okay man? Sounds like you are getting burned out by the comments? Don't let the noise get to you.

[@Доброжелатель-д3с]

so what printer can be best for warhammer like minis and stuff?

[@FauxHammer]

Buy the Anycubic Photon M5s Here: geni.us/PhotonM5s Buy the Anycubic Photon M5 Here: geni.us/PhotonM5 Get any 3D printer working quickly & easily with the our beginner guide kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZ6TXq1vbJannbs) 3D Printer Cleaning Mat: geni.us/3DPrinterCleaningMat This Video is part of our series looking for the Best 3D printer for Miniatures; www.fauxhammer.com/top-10/the-best-3d-printer-for-miniatures-models/ Artis Opus FauxHammer Essentials Set: store.artis-opus.com/products/fauxhammer-mixed-brush-set-5-brush-deluxe FauxHammer Patreon - www.patreon.com/fauxhammerblog FauxHammer Facebook Group - facebook.com/groups/PaintHub FauxHammer 3D Printing Group - facebook.com/groups/3dprintedminiatures FauxHammer Discord - discord.gg/dPexM9SeN4 Best Airbrush For Miniatures: www.fauxhammer.com/top-10/best-airbrushes-for-miniatures-wargames-models/ Beginner Airbrush: www.fauxhammer.com/featured/best-beginner-airbrush-for-miniatures/ Affiliate Links to support us. Element Games - elementgames.co.uk/wargames-and-miniatures-by-manufacturer/games-workshop/warhammer-40k/warhammer-40000-indomitus-english-?d=10279 Wayland Games - affiliates.waylandgames.co.uk/781-1-3-4.html Forbidden Planet: forbiddenplanet.com/catalog/?q=Warhammer%20Imperium&sort=title&page=1&affid=FauxHammer& Amazon - www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=Warhammer&ref=nb_sb_noss_2 Website: www.fauxhammer.com/ Facebook: facebook.com/pg/FauxHammerBlog/ Twitter: twitter.com/FauxHammerBlog Instagram: instagram.com/fauxhammerblog/ Pinterest: www.pinterest.co.uk/fauxhammer/ Video Editing by VidPros: app.vidpros.io/r/J50Z26 00:00 - Intro

[@WallyMahar]

Hopefully, this is merely a software and film replacement issue, similar to past instances when 3D printer companies faced backlash over plastic versus metal tubes. They rectified the situation by switching them out, resulting in satisfied customers. The same needs to be done here. Extensive testing should always take precedence over rushing to kickstart. Companies often find the latter too tempting, but it's not always the best route. And no Thank You for this content!

[@joshlofthouse4702]

I have this printer and I have this issue where prints either come out warped, stick to the rep or don’t print at all does anyone know how to resolve this issue?

[@Emtbtoday]

CAN ANYONE ELSE HERE OVER THE M5S FANS??? LOL Waw they cannot be serious!!

[@omar1845]

so 26 minutes video long, saying it is the ACF, and you wont show the result with a NFEP? Really?

[@michaelrobinson5179]

What about using flex plates and auto leveling? Will this cause an issue with this printer? I love my flex plates!

[@FauxHammer]

I don’t think so. But I hate flex plates and won’t test it I’m afraid.

[@markburton5292]

i don't know but it might work fine since the leveling is done via the load cell. I would ask anycubic though just to be sure.

[@michaelrobinson5179]

@@FauxHammer I have noticed no one using them in any review videos. Why do you hate them? Is getting the print off the build plate not as hard as I believe it to be. The flex plates do add a lot of cost to the printer.