Fed Up With Vinyl Records on eBay? The Grading Scale Massacre

[@EddieJazzFan]

I've given up on buying used records on line, only in person. The problem is most online sellers on Ebay are not collectors, just flippers. And also, they don't know how to packages records to prevent damage.

[@dan1531]

I only use (M) Mint grade if it is sealed, and a below comment also pointed out, sealed records can still have flaws. Very seldom do I buy on records on Ebay but I am running into this same issue on Discogs.

[@tonyharrison2542]

I'm in total agreement and is why I stopped purchasing used records on eBay and Discogs two years ago. Very sad, frustrating and disappointing...

[@darrens7040]

I have 3 sellers I go thru on ebay I trust their grading and won't go anywhere else, BEST way to avoid disapoinment is read their feedback.

[@TheReal1953]

Agreed.....I labor over feedback ratings. You have to exclude the obvious whiners who wouldn't be happy no mater what or have buyer's remorse. You look for obvious negative 'trends' in bad feedback claims. If they have enough feedback, it's all there.

[@darrens7040]

@@TheReal1953 Well said Kevin

[@Gartoonz_]

howdy! what genres are you seeking out?

[@tomlayman3141]

None of this is the Fault of Ebay. It's the fault of the seller alone. Ebay is very strict with how they treat their ratings of sellers. Basically a sellers rating can go from 100% to 98.5 with only one complaint. Looks like to me you need to buy from the 100 percenters.

[@SCjuisy]

Hi, if you don`t have a ultrasonic cleaner, you can minimize the clicks and pops with a sponge cloth (you know 5 with different colours in one package) and destilled water. The clicks and pops are not totally gone, but it`s much better than before. I did it some days ago and you really hear the difference. Greetings

[@bellisariosonic]

Thanks for the info!

[@sandysmith9869]

I buy my records from estate sales, thrift stores, and garage sales. I don't buy it if I can't examine it.

[@blackquicksandmusic2365]

I've had bad grading on Discogs over and over. Also on Discogs sellers incorrectly listing the records under the wrong listing .

[@Floradoxpro.]

Agree totally. I gave up buying used records a while ago. I only buy new now and most Analogue productions. They are way more expensive as you know but it just takes the stress out of it. I can’t get as much but I buy what I can afford and enjoy it. Good video man

[@mrhoffame]

What solved that problem for me (95% of the time) ....I have 3 question that I send to every seller before I buy a NM graded record and it has really made a huge difference. What I have found is like even here in this video when you use words like "looks brand new" there are still sellers who judge the shiny nature of the lp as looking new and light marks don't even register with them. Or working at a record shop, the things I see people bring in and while I'm looking at moldy, roached stuff they are saying "most are in good shape" lol. I actually copy and paste these question before I buy each time if an album is listed as NM. I say the following... Hello there. I was very interested in purchasing this record. You had it listed as NM and I just wanted to get a clearer idea about the following details on it. 1. Are there any visible marks on the records itself that doesn't make it like a perfectly cleaned mirror? 2. Are there any lines or marks on the record that you could actually measure/estimate how long they are? If so would you say they are about 1 inch each, few inches long? 3. Are there any spots or areas that look darker or lighter than other areas on the vinyl. Like it may be a little more tan on some spots than others lol. If I get ANY sort of answer of those questions (ESPECIALLY QUESTION 2 as that is one I often get answer to that lets me know right away) ....It doesn't even matter what they say. An answer to any of those means I know that records is not NM because even though they may not have the words, they SEE SOMETHING they are trying to describe to me. Has really helped me. The only time in the past years or so I got a NM listing that wasn't....was the one time I didn't ask and I only didn't ask because it was a Corey Hart album that was only $7 and I didn't think to do it....and of course it was VG+ lol.

[@bellisariosonic]

Great advice!

[@alandewey6934]

i have had both sides of buying on ebay , accurately rated or got an LP in better condition than listed ..or just as you said, the rating is a whole step above than actual condition (easily) but my last order i got ,I must say very pleased as it is a beautiful & glossy album from 1968 .has an even rainbow sheen & reasonably priced for the title ..some say goldmine is subjective ..i say it is not if you follow it rule by rule .

[@chrisrees7054]

Snap! Crackle! Pop! 🍜 Are you talking about the cereal? 🥣

[@justinparkman3585]

And distortion 😢

[@peterkalogeropoulos9521]

Recently bought a record on EBay that was described as excellent. After cleaning off the dirt the first track on one of the sides had 3 minor skips right in a row. Upon closer inspection found one of the grooves was bent out of position. And the seller gets made at me for airing my grievance in the ratings section!

[@bellisariosonic]

That’s the problem! Been there.

[@Lycosa]

Some people (in the comments) are lucky, they have local record stores and they can just buy vinyl in-person. Physical media (especially music) isn't the same anymore! A lot of places in the world don't have stores just for records or in fact any type of physical media, ie record stores. And regular supermarkets don't carry vinyl records. So shopping online is an option and convenient. Need to have trustworthy sellers.

[@E111SJ]

Great video! I learned a lot. I would hate to see my customer as angry as you are. That is why I always held back selling my records. I didn't want to grade them wrong. But seeing you get angry as you were talking about it helped me define some lines for grading. I've been buying records for $0.25 each. Most of them are NM or VG+. Sadly some would have been NM or VG+ but they have one small pop or tiny scratch that ruined their grade. Anyways I'm about to check out more of your videos. I just subscribed.

[@mikewest1542]

Also when you think about the time wasted and almost £5 postage for UK Lps 😢

[@che1925]

The reality of it is most grading is not play graded. It is a cosmetic rating. Also, some new records don't come out of the sleeve mint. There are plenty of paper impressions or scuffs that affect the grade. I agree EBAY is trash. And are you playing records that were used before cleaning? That also could cause some issues.

[@charliemaguire2210]

finally a common sense posting ! liked !

[@sethallison5682]

Yeah, I’ve recently ordered an original copy of Pet Sounds on eBay described as “vg” and it’s CLEARLY poor/fair. I mean this record had DEEP scratches. Granted I bought this as a shelf warmer because I mostly listen to my reissue of this album, but I obviously still got super ripped off. Indeed seems like anything less than vg+ is pretty risky. At least you might have a leg to stand on for a refund.

[@bhoussock]

LPs haven’t been bad lately… but some of these ebay and discogs sellers have no clue how to ship a record. I usually let it slide, but if they ship an LP and it’s not outside the jacket (and there are bad splits), I usually contact them for a partial refund especially when it’s something more than $50.

[@bellisariosonic]

@@bhoussock I just had another graded as vg+ but had pops and crackle throughout!

[@Ireful]

The thought of buying used records from anywhere on the internet scares me. I feel like my thoughts of ordering from eBay (or anywhere else) are justified on this. I am super fortunate to have a few good record stores that are honest about what they're selling to the point that I don't bother checking them. There was one record that had a bad skip on it. I took it back and the store owner fixed it for me. Turns out it was dirt stuck in the groove his cleaner didn't remove the first time. Only records I order online are new ones. Three out of four records had to be returned and repacement with no issues. One I couldn't get a replacement which sold out. I blame Amazon on the three records of the four cause of poor packaging, putting them loose in boxes causing bend and warping, one was just thrown in a bubble pouch providing no protection. One record was well packaged but it was a factory defect. The issues with new records where solved easily, though still it sucks cause you have to go to UPS to return them and wait for the new one to arrive... that is if they have anymore. I'm glad all my used records where bought in store. I imagine buying used online is more of a hassle if things go wrong.

[@7JANEWAY]

It is well known that the six eye Columbia pressings like you have the reputation of being better quality and thus worth more money. The problem is, sellers know this and therefore grade and/or price their records higher because of it. But that’s no excuse for over grading a record. It’s always better to under grade a record slightly (ex: EX instead of NM). That way, when someone buys a record and it’s better than they expected, they give the seller good ratings which in turn helps the seller to sell more. True, there are those who won’t look at anything but NM. But which is better: getting an EX graded record that’s really closer to NM, or getting a NM graded record that’s barely past VG? I think this is clearly a case of buyer beware, and where (in some cases at least) less is more.

[@justinbouillon1548]

You're right that the grading is a huge problem when mail ordering used records. People are trying to squeeze every dime out of records by grading NM also knowing that people only tend to buy vg+. You're right that record inflation is frustrating. I try to buy vg/vg+ copies for the reason that I find most NM grading are absolute scams.

[@budsmoker4201120]

Man I have seen these behavior everywhere now. At record stores and even conventions. I was at a convention these weekend and almost broke down and got me a Donovan's Sunshine Superman. And the lady wanted 20 dollars......... I was like ok......... I will break down and get. When I checked the record it was scratched, and very dirty plus it was in an old paper sleeve. I wouldn't to laugh at the lady was wanted to call her a rip off. She also had a MOFI Nevermind she wanted 750 for....... lmao. I bet it was scratched. She was talking about how much she sold at axpona. I feel some people paid top price. For vg to g records

[@charlesgund4812]

Okay…I bought around 20-25 used records on eBay and I’ve been happy with around 5 of them. So I’m with you on this one and I have returned any ones I’ve not been satisfied with. Plus Uk sellers where I live are bad at grading. I always want Near Mint or EX+ as the absolute lowest. Most arrive between VG and VG+. I have seen even some sellers with photos that look like the cover is VG+ with creases or wear and they have the cheek to grade as MINT! 🤣

[@ChristineToner]

I have a ton of vinyl from my parents house and its very intimidating thinking about selling them. What im hearing is that i need more than a visual inspection to appropriately grade the vinyl.

[@bellisariosonic]

You can grade them visually but you should state that in your listing. You should learn how to grade them by the goldmine standard. It is best if you listen so you can disclose if there is any surface noise or pops. It is important to clean them so you can get a good assessment of their condition.

[@DKbananas]

NM is a don't buy it red flag

[@patrickjoneill4551]

I agree with you 100%. It is soul destroying. Honest sellers are very few and far between.

[@TheHelena54]

I just got talked into buying a bunch of old records at a yard sale, I looked through all of them and played them even though most of them are scratched up but they play. Some will play with minimal crackling but I didn't find any that actually skipped. I have 3 Elvis Presley, 2 Beatle albums, Bruce Springsteen and many more. They are from 1960's to 1970's. The covers on most of these are pretty rough. I thought of selling them on ebay but not sure if it would be worth it in the shape they are in.Any thoughts on this. It would be much appreciated. Thank you.

[@bellisariosonic]

You could sell them on Ebay but be sure to grade them properly. If you go to discogs you can find out how to grade them and see what they are selling for. Here is the link. support.discogs.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001566193-How-To-Grade-Items In general, if they crackle a little then they are most likely a VG. They go for about 25% of mint price. If they are rare records you may get more for them.

[@charliemaguire2210]

here you hit a problem. a disc can look near mint but play terribly so imho if you want to play used vinyl do not complain if it looks great but plays bad because that is caveat emptor. If you just want a play copy i suggest buying a modern re-issue. However i do agree that a near mint disc should at least look the part, it just does not always play the part not least because it has already been played !! To me the jacket is the most important part anyway because it is much easier to find great looking vinyl than a great looking jacket !

[@bellisariosonic]

All of my copies are play copies so the record for me is the most important thing. The cover doesn’t matter a whole lot to me.

[@charliemaguire2210]

@@bellisariosonic and that is fair enough, as are highlighting visual mis-gradings, however there is always an inherent difficulty in buying used 40/50+ year old records to play, & even if you were to ask a seller to play check a disc ( assuming that you do ask ? ) there is no guarantee that that disc would play the same on a different deck. As such if play is the most important you have to accept that there is always a risk it when buying pre-played vinyl to play. My advice, buy an original pressing to look at and admire & if it plays well thats a bonus, otherwise stick to modern brand new re-issues.

[@chrisrees7054]

Holy 🤬Batman! The 👹 made me do it!

[@davidgangemi3314]

Reach out to the seller first if you haven't dealt with them before and pick their brain on how the lp itself looks as far as grading. If they can't tell you much more than,Gee,it looks pretty decent to me,then walk away. Only buy from dealers who take the time to give great clise up photos and know the language to speak when grading. I've been on EBay for over 20 yrs and have only had less than 5-6 bD experience necessary. Because I do my due diligence before buying.

[@keithwatson8055]

Maybe i'm lucky but all the records I have bought on E-Bay have been as the seller said. I have found that very good plus gets me a good sounding record,and usually come with a good cover.I have recently been rebuying the Beatle L.P.S . I sold all mine back in the mid 80,s when C.D.S came out . This was a mistake ,even the mono c.d.s do not sound the same as the original vinyl l release's .

[@Kalprog]

Still sealed does not guarantee a mint grade either. Although the majority are probably perfect there can be flaws in sealed albums. Manufacturing defects like scuffing and warping have been found in sealed albums from years ago up to today. Buying unseen is always risky and it's made worse if sellers have a lack of knowledge of grading properly. Hope you have better luck in the future and thanks for reminding me why I avoid online sites for vinyl purchases. 👍

[@TheReal1953]

Absolutely agree. I've had some really bad, sealed stinkers. BEWARE of PVC covers, because given the right temps they can actually gas into the record and affect the record surface(usually on one side).

[@Kalprog]

@@TheReal1953 Don't forget the horrible plastic inner sleeves that some labels used in the past. They would damage both sides of the vinyl if not replaced early. Horrible idea from the start and I would rather have plain paper than those abominations.

[@TheReal1953]

@@Kalprog Absolutely seen that! Was a horrible idea that yielded thousands and thousands of copies before it got caught. Remember the Stones "Sticky Fingers" album with the real zipper? That gimmick cost everyone who bought the record automatic damage to some of the tracks before it was caught....lol. Warhol was involved in some of that design.

[@Kalprog]

@@TheReal1953 Oh yeah that was a design flaw for sure! Expensive mistake too as it was a real zipper, should have been made of softer materials but they went for the real deal. It's tough finding an original in any kind of decent shape. Give me posters and stickers anyday like Pink Floyd did!👍

[@nattyco]

Discogs is just as bad but at least on eBay you have the eBay guarantee. On Discogs you are at the mercy of the seller as to whether you get a refund or not. Sellers rarely audition their records and will often grade them without cleaning so are relying on inspection through dust and animal hairs. I always read the feedback before buying from a seller I am not familiar with.

[@djspx]

Make sure the ebay seller describes their cleaning regimen when they are selling used records. The right cleaning can remove most clicks and pops.

[@mikewest1542]

When the vinyl revival come about 20 years ago everything was honest , but now so many schisters now, I bought an old Genesis record on ebay and paid over £70 and was graded one side excellent and one side near mint , played the first track and seemed to be a lot of surface noise and the whole record was covered in scratches, I would have graded just good , I have taken this back and hope to get a full refund!

[@stevebird9510]

I never buy a record unless I can hold it my hands and check it out thoroughly.

[@DavidRobinson1978]

Lot of sellers on eBay and Discogs don't even play the records they are selling, they pretty much grab them from charity/thrift/boot/yard sales on mass as cheap as possible and grade on quick inspections (I missed a bad rotational scratch in a shop's bargain bin purchase the other day due to poor light but I'm only out of pocket a £1 or so and not several pounds) Recently from Discogs I've had so called NM- records sold with warps and audible scratches. I'm going back to physical store/record fair purchases as much as possible now all the lockdowns are over. It's cheaper too as public transport fares cost lest than bulk postage costs and I can check the Vinyl over for myself.

[@larrywhaples1315]

Thanks for sharing.

[@Vintageelectronics2296]

Walmart is just as bad and they are new very poor quality

[@Birdlives247]

I beg to disagree about the "VG" grading. A "VG" record is your average thrift store record. Maybe a couple shortly-repeating light scratches and light surface noise throughout and very slight wear. " VG-" grading has some clearly heard but not real deep scratches that might repeat for, maybe five revolutions (on an LP, less on a 45) with noticable surface noise throughout or noticeable wear, mildly annoying. " G" grading is downright annoying. ( Actually, this was more difficult to define then I had expected.)

[@bellisariosonic]

I go by the standard that has been set for over 50 years now the Goldmine standard. That is what reputable record stores use.

[@chrisrees7054]

They make good Frisbees tho' 😳

[@justinparkman3585]

Secondhand records are always a gamble especially if they haven't been play tested at least with ebay it's free and easy to send back.... it's just not as described.just because it looks mint doesn't mean it will sound mint

[@ergloo6660]

I've never bought used vinyl online for these reasons, new vinyl is hard enough. Name and shame, personally VG+ is the best you can have for a used record

[@nickmoschetti2977]

I haven't had any problems with ebay I always have problems with Amazon crap records

[@babyblutube-s5j]

I think a lot of people have this idea that music somehow belongs to the universe and people who charge a lot for records are immoral. Records are art music and history and in this bullshit digital disposable internet world that stuff is valuable so stop complaining.

[@bellisariosonic]

No people who charge for a near mint record when it is not even close are the one's people complain about. So no, I won't stop complaining about people who do not know how to grade records or overcharge for a record that isn't playable.