Feeling lost as an artist - Art Department Podcast

[@mterpstra]

Yet another episode which spoke to me. I really appreciate the discussions, guys. I just turned 50, with similarities in life/industry experience with you both. Being lost can be frustrating and even scary...I'm right there with you, thinking about what direction to head in next. We're all compelled to do so, yes? On goals, I wanted to mention this: I know my narrow, single-minded focus towards goals has killed incredible opportunities for me in the past and also played a large role in stunting my artistic growth/finding my voice for over a decade. I thought sharing my experiences might help someone. Like many, my dream was always to work on a Star Wars film. Right out of school, in the same week, I had a phone interview with ILM and an interview for a job as an assistant to a National Geographic photographer. I was so focused on getting into ILM, my dis-interest came across in the photographer's interview, and they passed on me the next day. ILM ended up going with someone with more experience as well. I was broke and double-crushed. I regret not being more open to a different experience. Another mistake I made was tying 100% of my artistic happiness to my job. It's hard not to do, as a fledgling artist, but I got stuck in an unhealthy cycle where I wouldn't let myself do any personal art. After being turned down by ILM, I spent 4 years in the game industry, eventually getting into LucasArts, where I found my next goal: becoming a concept artist. I made it my SOLE PURPOSE IN LIFE to be around and learn from concept artists. I spent a year crafting a demo reel to get into Skywalker Ranch as a Previs artist - just to be AROUND the titans of the concept art world. I worked 12-14hr days on the Previs job, walking over to the concept room every day to watch the masters at work. I left to join the VFX world, where 80-100hr weeks as a TD/Compositor was my norm (where I met Emmanuel). I started a family. I had very little energy to put into concept art, but every spare brain-cycle I had was bent towards "changing my job to something I love 100%". I WOULDN'T EVEN ALLOW MYSELF TO DOODLE unless it was to get me to that goal. I was stuck in this loop for 10+yrs. This wasn't healthy for me. On my birthday, at age 48, I was able to take a chunk of time to reflect, and started a long process of de-coupling 100% of my artist happiness from my job, I started to hear my own voice again. Two years later, I'm still struggling to find it, but I feel I'm closer now. Maybe most importantly - I finally gave myself permission to occasionally EXPERIMENT WITH NO EXPECTATIONS. To have fun and get messy. I went out on a walk and took pictures of microcosms which caught my eye. I painted a portraits in watercolor, acrylic, colored pencil, whatever. I picked up a guitar and tried to play one of my favorite songs. I tried to make a Hellboy bust out of sculpy. I played Streetfighter for the first time in years. These were all small investments of time, which freed me up both physically and mentally to be present in the moment, and enjoy a new process without a care for the final result. Little breaks like that felt great. Except watercolor. ;) I also have a copy of "Art Matters" by Neil Gaiman on my dresser. I grab it about once a week and flip to a page and read it. Your mileage may vary, but it's a little reminder to me of the power of ideas and the magic of creating. I agree with his statement - “The world always seems brighter when you've just made something that wasn't there before.” This was long. I hope some of these thoughts may help someone.

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Thanks so so much Mike for sharing your story! Very inspiring and I hope others take the time to read through as well!!!

[@lucanizzoli3453]

Thank you Mike, this makes me think that there are many more pitfalls than one can imagine in our journey, but reading your experience is invaluable to at least be aware of keeping a life/work balance and thinking about it every day (that's a struggle in itself). Also being really focused is what everyone recommends but at the same time the risk is to not see other things... That's a major concern to me and keeping myself on track is the hardest thing (while thinking that the stuff that I chose is what I really want to do)

[@jaisolart]

Art is a form of expression, and the audience responds or reacts to it. We are all artist in our way. That experience changes when an artist decides to add a commercial element to that relationship. It distorts the natural process as we now have to consider an exchange beyond the simple appreciation of creativity. It distorts how artists perceive the audience and the curators, and it sets conditions for the audience and shapes their perception of the curators or gatekeepers. As an artist, you have to know that none of it matters. Just create, express and allow the world to respond how it does. Another fantastic conversation, guys!! You are offering so much value here. Keep it moving x

[@TheVexingLion]

Beautifully said. My thoughts exactly.

[@leveledfeats]

I agree 👏🏼 once the art starts feeling too "businessy" you begin losing the art's intended nature to purely inspire your audience and have them wanting more

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Great comments guys, thank you!

[@cubicpea]

This is another episode that I feel like it was made for me. Thank you guys for sharing your experiences and showing us that you also struggles with plans and goals. I decided to change completely my carrear from graphic design to concept art when I was 30. Now I'm 32 and I finally got my first payed gig. I'm really happy with that but I also keep thinking about my next steps all the time. I think being open to change plans and adapt is not a weakness, but a wise way to perceive new opportunities around you. Thanks you guys for another great episode. I'm learning a lot from you!

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Glad you liked it Paulo! And good luck with the new career!

[@lucasstaniec4414]

another excellent episode. I went though burnout and kind of hit the bump in my life. What works for me is going back to practicing and not worrying that I have to lean something by the end of the month. When I draw and it looks awful, I feel very good that I can just move on. Sometimes I draw over my own sketches to kind of let it go. I dont have to worry about 3D or making it a master piece for social media. \ I also think NFTs will burn out a lot of people and some of them instead of becoming better artists, they will find themselves in the position, where they maybe wont be getting enough money from NFTs and wont be able to get client work because their skill is not good enough.

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Thanks for sharing Lucas!

[@philmehrart]

You guys are very informative and articulate, great to hear you talking about this - I'm sure you will be helping a lot of artists. So glad I found this channel - Thanks!

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Thanks so much!

[@tested211]

28:12 That's a great insight and I think you're absolutely right: The popular idea is that the hard thing about art is how to do it well or how to get paid for doing it but perhaps the most difficult struggle for some of us (particularly after gaining some experience) is the internal mental process of creating and why we are doing it...I think that's one of the things that's really great (and helpful) about this podcast - you guys aren't afraid to dig into those tricky questions. Big props to you for that!

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Thanks so much!! :)

[@JM-mc5kk]

This started off a bit dry but 30 min in I’m really digging the conversation. I like the concept of 1. Goals create a love for the process 2. Being lost gets you back to basics 3. Running without drowning you’re thoughts out with music hearing that internal voice 4. 42:19 - The debate over social media, sales and marketing vs unplugging every so often 5. 44:49 - happenstance Vs calculated guess 6. 46:42 - what is your definition of success 7. 59:42 what makes art work Anyways thanks guys I’m a fan!!!!

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Thanks so much for the markers! :)

[@ankaris5129]

Jan, you have an enormous amount to offer. Don't stop, do your thing. I haven't earn't a dime with NFT's.. least not yet, but it has lit a fire under my arse to get back into oil painting! So if nothing else, it's helped me re-focus my personal work.

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Thanks Wayne, means a lot!! And yes, if all that came out of the NFT thing is a renewed focus on what we love doing in the first place ... its all good. :)

[@cybergraphx]

Finally found a curated NFT site and signed agreement, they take 10%. An old manager used to tell us in hi tech world "if the job was easy I'd hire your mom". That is kind of like NFT and the brave new world of crypto. I am not famous like you guys but I have sold art for really good prices. Take a break when lost and find your passion. WITHOUT passion you are not an artist. I am so happy I found a curated NFT site that does the leg work. My time is best used in the studio. I had over 1000 pieces of original digital art so NFT excited me without any fear. What I find most interesting is listening to the burnout artists of your caliber go through and your path to doing personal art. I spent my entire life doing art but only FOR ME and honed my skills going into older age. I am more passionate about the creative process in my 60's than ever before. Exercise, take care of yourself, and you might find a whole new approach as you get older. I've been thru two middle age crisis and more burnouts in hi tech than I can remember. PURSUE PASSION.............

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and to highlight what's important. :)

[@cybergraphx]

@@artdepartmentpodcast You are welcome, I have hard experience from the Donkey Kong years to most advanced Microprocessors on earth, still learning. ;)

[@ryanisanart]

Real great conversation! I think a lot of us struggle with these kinds of existential "what if.." questions.

[@EmmanuelShiuArt]

yeah we all do :)

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

No matter how old or experienced ... :)

[@ArsalanKhan-zx3jh]

I can really see Jan going deep with this conversation. I can see he's been thinking about this for a long time. I understand hw it feels like having such puzzling thoughts and after spending some time thinking about what's going to happen? how will things turn out? etc etc I come to a conclusion that I really like what I do and I want to do it for the rest of my life and I'm still willing and open to change if something comes along the way. Love your podcast. I listen to it everyday, keeps me in a creative bubble.

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Thanks so much! Yes indeed, I've been thinking about this for a loooong time. :)

[@cybergraphx]

My super power is being a musician too, we get rejected even more often.... and coupled with Art rejections from time to time my skin is triple thick and my ego is in check. Still hungry 6 decades in.

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Nice, I hope I have that much energy after that long. :)

[@cybergraphx]

@@artdepartmentpodcast Eat well, exercise, explore other things than pure art. Learn an instrument, sing. ;)

[@Haruyuki_Art]

awesome thank you

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

You're welcome!

[@dougieladd]

Frodo: I can't do this Sam Sam: It’s all wrong By rights we shouldn’t even be here. But we are. It’s like in the great stories Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were, and sometimes you didn’t want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy. How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad happened. But in the end, it’s only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn’t. Because they were holding on to something. Frodo: What are we holding on to, Sam? Sam : That there’s some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it’s worth fighting for.

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Hahaha I don't think this episode will be that dramatic or deep. :)

[@janrozanski]

:) good comment , i need to reread the lotr trilogy !

[@lart556]

that scene in Osgiliath always brings a tear to my eye, its so beatifully deep :)

[@dougieladd]

@@artdepartmentpodcast lol I know... just the first thing that popped into my head....

[@nicolasleonflores7839]

Thank again very helpful guys!!!

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Our pleasure!

[@solidsoulart]

Very thought-provoking episode. Keep up the great work guys, loving the content.

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Thanks Eric!

[@ankaris5129]

We are outsiders to the NFT space... we're used to being known, recognised for our art and our art within the context of a popular film/games franchise which gives us a certain amount of fame and maybe even identity. Take all that away and what's left? Collectors (some at least) see us as mere 'illustrators' and not real artists. We're nobodies as far as some of these guys are concerned. My take is that concept art was a novelty for these guys and it's wearing off. We need to get back to the reasons we wanted to paint in the first place. The NFT folks will like it or they won't, simple as that.

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Right on! :)

[@5e11even]

Another great episode! Its great you guys go into the mental health part of being a creative. I thought I was the only one lost about this NFT thing. I felt like I was letting an opportunity slip and just didn't know what to do. I can't even use Coinbase and some other crypto exchanges because it is suspended in my state. I had to do even more research what I can use and it's just hurting my brain on how much I need to do first before I can even put up a piece of "art" and even if that piece of art is even worth anything. Although it is a great point if that you were happy making the piece, that should count for something. Thanks guys!

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Thanks for listening!

[@josesick2]

Awesome episode, I'm just starting in all this art stuff and all the advice you both give is priceless!

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@theartfulpodcastwithmatteo]

great podcast, keep up the good job!!!!

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Thanks! Will do!

[@masuka1993]

really liked this episode, thanks for sharing

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@steve00alt70]

Artstation and blender community and twitch is a good way to get paid for doing your own stuff. As Jordan Petterson has said creative people are born with a blessing and a curse at the same time high risk high reward in that art is very subjective some people love it some hate it and you have to be ok with negative constructive critism in anything you do. Having goals is great but it also has a future mindset not a present one.

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Thanks for sharing!

[@dougieladd]

Jan - I feel your pain... I'm so very similar. In fact I'm working in an industry I fell into after playing guitar in an original and serious 'rock' band for 10 years (and failed to "make it"). I fell back onto the only other thing I knew how to do... Graphic Design (I have a BA), but hate it... (maybe because of the industry I'm in perhaps, and the BS that marketing can sometimes be (in the job I'm in at least). I'm big into design, process and 3D modelling at the moment... and telling truth. I really enjoy it... But I'm pretty sure if I had to do it as a job 12 hours a day... I'd probably end up hating that too... I guess it all depends on your attitude to life and the responsibilities you have in your life... and ultimately your priorities. I dunno... I'm lost right...? that's the title of the podcast, isn't it... :)

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Thanks for your thoughts. Interesting point that came out of the follow up Clubhouse: Embrace being lost, its part of the journey ;)

[@janditlevcom]

You speak the truth guys and thank you for that.

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

You're welcome. :) Thanks for listening!

[@vionart3D]

The concepts of Ikigai and Mastery might be quite relevant to this topic, more so about finding a 'purpose' than about confidence as an artist (in terms of sales, style, etc)

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Good pointers yeah, the books with those titles are definitely recommended :)

[@marek_tarnawski]

It might be my curse and a blessing at the same time but I always had similar approach to Dave Rapoza with my art. I never really looked whether some specific piece from me gathered more interest so that I could do more of that. Even when I painted something that a lot of people liked I moved back to experimenting again and it's like always back to square one. So when it comes to popularity I have super slow progression and I'm not really sure if all this experimenting will lead me anywhere. At the same time I don't feel like I have anything to loose because I'm loosing constantly :P.

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Thanks for sharing! I wish I could turn that voice in my head off haha. Would be definitely less distracting. :)

[@cybergraphx]

Thanks so much, I got a lot from this and am just getting ready to submit NFT art. I will carefully review what I send in. Great podcast.

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Thanks!

[@rouiemoran]

I can relate to what you are talking about guys... I actually stopped creating personal stuffs.. I hope I can get back on track.

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Good luck Rouie!

[@cybergraphx]

Don't measure your success on NFT sales...... When I first showed my digital art I competed alone against 20,000 traditional artists. Some made fun of my work. Eventually I won 4th place in a global contest against painters from EU. Its hard to balance your soul and ego, what worked for me is focus on art and how I feel like Emmanual said. NOT on sales or external things. False expectations as an artist or a musician (i am both) is sure fire way to find major disappointment. Whether its no sales, not being accepted in a gallery, whatever... it sucks.

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Yeah, even though its easier said than done. Its a basic human urge to be accepted and liked by the community and your peers (and even the society at large).

[@fractalelement857]

hey guys, you really REALLY need to put timestamps in the future for those asked questions !!!! it will make our listeners lives easier !!! trust me !!

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Thanks for the suggestion.

[@Barrelism]

guys, adjust your mics. jan is super quiet I always need to pump up the volume

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

thanks for the suggestion

[@owlpolar4852]

Seems like someone has a “white canvas” issue with photography? :) solution is a commitment of one picture a day for any reason of any object, - buildings, cars, people, stores... for reference, for composition library, anything... and no pressure, just a phone and brief editing:))

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Its actually not about photography haha. But thanks for the suggestion!

[@owlpolar4852]

@@artdepartmentpodcast Emmanuel said that he'd want to see Jan shooting again :) The reason I mentioned that, some listeners are, probably, early in their career and are trying to find themselves, and are lost in their creativity journey, but it seems like anyone should realize that 'being lost' is a natural part of being creating, the reason we start searching and finding something new in ourselves, in our art... and,.. think we all here would want to see more Jan's photography :))) maybe through the lens of painting too :))) Thank you guys for what are you doing!!!

[@lucaslicata4127]

Close the door and work out what you are trying to say, love this thanks, guys!!. I think you don't have to be a fine artist, NFT gives all types of designers and artist the opportunity to be recognised or supported by the crypto community. Take Beeple I don't see him as a Fine Artist, but I think is the leader in the digital art or design space. Be you. :)

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Ideally yeah, but we can't shut ourselves off, because the pure act of uploading/minting/listing something destroys that feeling. Its an eternal struggle.

[@definitelynotnick2454]

shit almost all fo the exmaples used of someone lost and life choices hit home. Everything.

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

You're definitely not alone!

[@bpdd85]

Right now, my goal is to be able to work in a company where I feel upper management is doing it's job XDD I check Glassdoor for company reviews and friends' experiences.

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Good luck!

[@marcoiozziart]

Another very interesting conversation guys, thanks for that. I did not read all the comments so don't know if anyone mentioned it but while listening to this talk i immediately thought of the beautiful Pixar movie Soul. In case you have missed it please do yourself a favor and watch it, then watch this kzbin.info/www/bejne/iX6WeoR8nLVgmpo which i thought nails it (great channel by the way). While not obviously specifically related to some of the topic discussed i think it's an incredibly valuable view on the artistic journey, told (as usual) with mastery. Thanks again guys.

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Yes I watched it. Its super interesting and something I feel speaks mostly to adults and not children haha. :)

[@karldarwin1253]

invite beeple.

[@artdepartmentpodcast]

Anything you'd like to hear from him, that other interviews with him haven't touched on yet?