Operating Fermilab's particle accelerators | Behind the Science

[@KB9CBS]

I was a control room operator from 87 to 95. When people ask me what it was like I tell them for someone with a BS in Physics it was like a kid getting a job in a candy store. Plus I got to meet Stephan Hawking.

[@LanceMcCarthy]

Thank you for highlighting the people that actually make things happen and keep things running.

[@steinrich56]

Yes......great to see the human faces of the people at the cutting edge of discovery. Many thanks.

[@theultimatereductionist7592]

I would love a standalone video about all the safety precautions taken at Fermilab.

[@railgap]

Dunno how it's managed today, but when I visited the old Tevatron in the early 90s, there was a board, with key switches. The keys were only removable if turned to the off position. Any key turned off, would shut down the accelerator (or perhaps only the equipment at that location? but that would require the beam to be off anyway) The keys went to the service buildings. IOW, the only way to get into a hazardous location, was to turn off the equipment first. There are many other safety precautions - I can't remember them all - but that was the one that stuck in my memory. An acquaintance was an accelerator operator, and the beam was off at the time, so he generously gave us a full, "off the official tour" tour. I think I spotted him in the background, didn't know he was still working. Oh, and I knew a safety guy there once upon a time, too. Didn't meet him on site, I only ever met him at SF conventions. ^_^

[@CircsC]

Very cool, but I have to admit I had hoped for a bit more of an in depth look.

[@railgap]

Education is a very, very minor mission for FNAL vs smashing protons. Accelerators are expensive.

[@Evergreen64]

I wish I had known about jobs like this when I was young. This would have been the perfect job for me. I didn't have the math chops to be a particle physicist, but I bet I could have qualified for this. I also love the term "subatomic detritus".

[@Kids_Scissors]

It's so cool that my job is just down the road from this very particle accelerator

[@vis_viva]

I was in Accelerator Ops from 1995 to 2006 (Operator for 5 years, Crew Chief for 6). I'm now an engineering physicist at the lab working with magnets, but will never forget my days in the Main Control Room.

[@TomCrockett-bl1gp]

Could you guys elaborate on the part about the cancer treatment? Thanks

[@vis_viva]

We've (on and off when we'd have a hospital sponsor) had a Neutron Therapy treatment center at the lab. We'd siphon off protons part-way down the Linac accelerator (1st accelerator in the chain) bombard a target and create neutrons. There are certain types of tumor that this was more effective treating than other forms of radiation therapy.

[@railgap]

Say hi to Todd J. from Bill, would ya?

[@TomCrockett-bl1gp]

I visited Fermi in 2015. Took a tour. The part that really got my attention was that they were treating folks with cancer with the “machine”. Could you guys elaborate on that process? Thanks

[@fermilab]

Thank you for the question! We did cover it in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bonHZWWsmsxqgbs. Enjoy!

[@FrancisFjordCupola]

Modern day science is true teamwork. Never forget that each time the Nobels pop up again.

[@PaulThePhotoGuy]

Fascinating that it starts with a small tank of hydrogen 🤯Go tech support/operators et all ! But do they call when it goes perfectly ? I hope so !!!!

[@astrophotographyenthusiast5273]

I love Fermilab, great people and awesome atmosphere!

[@paulmichals]

At Fermilab they raise American Bison (a.k.a. Buffalo) and in the winter migrating Canadian Geese take advantage of the Main Ring Cooling ponds that don't freeze. A visiting French Physicist saw the thousands of geese and wondered jokingly if he could hunt and cook one of them.

[@sogerc1]

Yepp, I would work there for the cool factor alone.

[@Pottery4Life]

Thank you.

[@bigsarge2085]

Fascinating!

[@dudemeister1846]

Super cool video showing amazing work going on in the US! The music is a bit much throughout but loved hearing everyone talk about their jobs!

[@emmygold280]

dream job

[@cmpe43]

It made no sense that my brothers job was cleaning the target screens that his room was always a mess in the late 70's

[@glowerworm]

When you clean all day at work the last thing you want to do is clean at home!

[@Chill_Mode_JD]

Maybe he was busy learning rather than cleaning

[@tomschmidt381]

Great behind the scene video.

[@ChristopherLydon-il6ih]

Can save humanity the good operators. Chris J Lydon

[@AtheistExpert]

background music is torture yo

[@Rando_Shyte]

Yeah it's god awful lol

[@rickfinsta2951]

Subatomic Detritus is the name of my next band.

[@gastonneal724]

I love the diversity, feels like a collaboration of most of the best.

[@DrFrank-xj9bc]

Hey guys, that's an interesting Engineering insight.. do you also have a link or a contact option, where I can find further details about your equipment, like T&M, power supplies, your (Superconducting?) magnets and their electronics, and so on? Greetings from THE volt-nuts "Dr. Frank"

[@rg807]

Great video- if I was in 6th grade. Please don't hesitate to go into MUCH more detail.

[@tylerfrantz00]

I like the first 2 videos in this series better. What happened with this one?? It's so different. Did the producer die of radiation poisoning?

[@generalpurpose6517]

Wdh playing with the building blocks of the universe awesome

[@sephrinx4958]

Yall better be getting paid 7 figures a year for this type of job. The amount of incredibly specific and complex knowledge for something like this would just be absurd.

[@Peter_Riis_DK]

I would be surprised if the pay is even six figures. It's not that special - or even dangerous.

[@sephrinx4958]

@@Peter_Riis_DK It's absolutely a 6fig + job, I'd imagine it's at least 200k or more. A CT Tech makes 130k+ in my area and that's like a year of education and a cert.

[@Peter_Riis_DK]

@@sephrinx4958 Now I'm really surprised. Perhaps I should have something known to compare to: What is the yearly salary of a skilled welder or sheet metal worker?

[@paulmichals]

I worked there as an Accelerator Operator from December of 1986 through September of 1994. It was not a high paying job. The pay was okay for the late 80s early 90s and I only have a BS degree in Engineering Physics from U of I Urbana-Champaign. Real Scientist have PhDs in Physics and was very cool working alongside some very smart people. Downside of the job was because the Main Control Room is staffed 24 hours a day 7 days a week and 365 days of the year the four crews worked rotating shift work. To get two weekends off a month. Night shift (3rd shift) on Saturday & Sunday was a 12-hour shift 00:00 until 12:00. The Evening shift (2nd shift) does the other 12 hours of the weekend. The upside of those 12-hour shift weekends was because you are paid as an hourly employee 4 of the 12 hours you were paid time and a half of your hourly salary. Also got time and a half overtime for working holidays.

[@vis_viva]

They usually grab kids right out of college, sometimes with a little grad school. It's good pay for someone that age, but I when worked there (1995 to 2006) it was not 6 figures (starting). But still, good pay and good benefits (WAY more than you'd make as a TA in grad school). If I adjust for inflation from 2006 to now, it was just barely that when I left (as a Crew Chief, that's the guy who sits in the center desk in the video). Interesting part is, OT (because you work some CRAZY hours as @paulmichals points out) makes up about ~20%-25% of your typical pay. One of the coolest jobs I've ever had. In my era, I got to sit up at 3am making antimatter, and get paid for it.

[@chetanpadia4421]

Are you sure about the readings are they genuine and not the instrumentation error

[@ChristopherLydon-il6ih]

👍

[@fieryweasel]

I want a big science machine.

[@ChristopherLydon-il6ih]

Only the technologies that have harmed human life please

[@VincentAv]

were the interviews shot by interns?

[@scottmarquardt8770]

Just wish public access was back to what it used to be. Y'all destroyed the arts series - obliterated it as if you'd whacked it with warp speed protons. Now you need a passport and a cavity search just to see buffalo.

[@guff9567]

Why the music? Why? Why? Ehy? Why? Why?

[@aseq2]

You'd think they could set up a system that could count people going in and out so they'd save themselves all the checking. Or buy a spot. Or have everyone who works there carry a tag when they enter the area (otherwise door won't open).

[@Nareimooncatt]

You'd be surprised how often people can get around automated safeguards like that. And for all we know, some of those safeguards may actually be in use, but they still do a manual check as a final slice in the swiss cheese safety model.

[@blackcreekresearch]

In fact everyone entering one of those enclosures is required to have a key that lets them in, and the system will not turn back on until all the keys are returned to their individual interlocked slots in the Main Control Room. The search procedure is just an extra level to be 100% certain. I don't recall there ever being a time when someone was found "loose" in there.

[@danieloberhofer9035]

​@@blackcreekresearchI figured as much. However, it's good procedure that you have an eyes on inspection policy, as well. No matter how sophisticated an automated system may be, it's always better to bet on human error and triple check.

[@stargazer7644]

When somebody's safety is on the line, you don't rely on systems like that which can fail.

[@ShellyTyterson]

wow, this is really long... head bobbing started around 90 seconds in

[@Peter_Riis_DK]

Well put.

[@ChristopherLydon-il6ih]

Human body

[@jdin3987]

These sounds are all wrong. These people are rockstars.

[@hugegamer5988]

I’ve been assured by my doctor that exposure to that much radiation will likely be fatal, thus it’s better to be behind the science rather than in front of it.

[@Italianjedi7]

Really?! They mentioned safety precautions but it’s not enough?

[@paulmichals]

Unlike Nuclear Power Plants at a particle accelerator when the beam is off there is no radiation. Yes, if one was in the tunnel with the beam on and the beam hit the beam pipe in such a way that it then hit you that radiation received could be fatal. But actually, the wire of the high current power to the conventual magnets and a potential liquid nitrogen leak of the nitrogen insulating the liquid helium that cools the superconducting magnet of the Tevatron is a bigger risk. Entry to the tunnel requires an annual "Oxygen Deficiency Hazard" Medical Approval and passing ODH training. The triple safety procedures of those entering the beam tunnels; 1.) a sign in - was paper back when I worked the - probably now on a computer. 2.) each person going into the tunnel puts a personal lock on a device in the MCR that locked the key need to energize the magnet need to bend the beam to keep it in the evacuated beam pipe. Leaving work without removing your lock was a guarantee to getting a phone call telling you to come back to work to remove your lock. and 3.) The on-shift Accelerator Operator crew personally check the entire beam enclosure prior to powering the magnets and running beam.

[@Italianjedi7]

@@paulmichals Okay. I see. I’m nowhere near smart enough to work there anyway; so I’m fine 😁

[@wmschooley1234]

If everything was running “so good” at Fermilab, why is the U.S. Department of Energy soliciting for a new contractor to run Fermilab? Fermilab failed its annual DOE performance review. In five of eight main subcategories, the lab earned failing marks.

[@Kupiakos42]

Those falling marks (anything below B+) were almost entirely due to mismanagement and lawyers drawing up bad contracts. The techs have nothing to do with it.

[@ernestkhalimov9368]

well they never said anything about it running perfectly

[@Thor_the_Doge]

​@@ernestkhalimov9368yes. This and the fact that it's still a company. It has to advertise itself, so occasional excessively positive remarks are to be expected.

[@harrypitts7389]

Love science, hate vocal fry

[@Saki630]

Perfect $15/hr job for the grad student. Waste of an opportunity to show how they fix/replace/troubleshoot something that was made in the 1960's and 70's. Surely not everything is made within the last 20 years, so it would have been cool to see them have to fix issues with ancient equipment that even CERN uses.

[@DonLuc23]

Music background is annoying and at times makes it difficult to understand the speaker

[@hakiza-technologyltd.8198]

Hahahahaha

[@guff9567]

So, nobody talking about their government salary, healthcare & pension ?

[@paulmichals]

Fermilab is a line item in the DOE Annual budget. People who work there don't do it for the money. TIAA provides retirement benefits - many US Universities also use TIAA for their University Professors and Staff retirement plan. I have personally found that TIAA gave a good rate of return on the money I paid into from my salary for the eight years I worked there.

[@guff9567]

@@paulmichals So if Fermilab salaries & benefits are so bad, the best minds must go elsewhere?

[@SpotterVideo]

If quarks have not been isolated and gluons have not been isolated, how do we know they are not parts of the same thing? The tentacles of an octopus and the body of an octopus are parts of the same creature. Is there an alternative interpretation of "Asymptotic Freedom"? What if Quarks are actually made up of twisted tubes which become physically entangled with two other twisted tubes to produce a proton? Instead of the Strong Force being mediated by the constant exchange of gluons, it would be mediated by the physical entanglement of these twisted tubes. When only two twisted tubules are entangled, a meson is produced which is unstable and rapidly unwinds (decays) into something else. A proton would be analogous to three twisted rubber bands becoming entangled and the "Quarks" would be the places where the tubes are tangled together. The behavior would be the same as rubber balls (representing the Quarks) connected with twisted rubber bands being separated from each other or placed closer together producing the exact same phenomenon as "Asymptotic Freedom" in protons and neutrons. The force would become greater as the balls are separated, but the force would become less if the balls were placed closer together. Therefore, the gluon is a synthetic particle (zero mass, zero charge) invented to explain the Strong Force. An artificial Christmas tree can hold the ornaments in place, but it is not a real tree. String Theory was not a waste of time, because Geometry is the key to Math and Physics. However, can we describe Standard Model interactions using only one extra spatial dimension? What did some of the old clockmakers use to store the energy to power the clock? Was it a string or was it a spring? What if we describe subatomic particles as spatial curvature, instead of trying to describe General Relativity as being mediated by particles? Fixing the Standard Model with more particles is like trying to mend a torn fishing net with small rubber balls, instead of a piece of twisted twine. Quantum Entangled Twisted Tubules: “We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question which divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct.” Neils Bohr (lecture on a theory of elementary particles given by Wolfgang Pauli in New York, c. 1957-8, in Scientific American vol. 199, no. 3, 1958) The following is meant to be a generalized framework for an extension of Kaluza-Klein Theory. Does it agree with some aspects of the “Twistor Theory” of Roger Penrose, and the work of Eric Weinstein on “Geometric Unity”, and the work of Dr. Lisa Randall on the possibility of one extra spatial dimension? During the early history of mankind, the twisting of fibers was used to produce thread, and this thread was used to produce fabrics. The twist of the thread is locked up within these fabrics. Is matter made up of twisted 3D-4D structures which store spatial curvature that we describe as “particles"? Are the twist cycles the "quanta" of Quantum Mechanics? When we draw a sine wave on a blackboard, we are representing spatial curvature. Does a photon transfer spatial curvature from one location to another? Wrap a piece of wire around a pencil and it can produce a 3D coil of wire, much like a spring. When viewed from the side it can look like a two-dimensional sine wave. You could coil the wire with either a right-hand twist, or with a left-hand twist. Could Planck's Constant be proportional to the twist cycles. A photon with a higher frequency has more energy. ( E=hf, More spatial curvature as the frequency increases = more Energy ). What if Quark/Gluons are actually made up of these twisted tubes which become entangled with other tubes to produce quarks where the tubes are entangled? (In the same way twisted electrical extension cords can become entangled.) Therefore, the gluons are a part of the quarks. Quarks cannot exist without gluons, and vice-versa. Mesons are made up of two entangled tubes (Quarks/Gluons), while protons and neutrons would be made up of three entangled tubes. (Quarks/Gluons) The "Color Charge" would be related to the XYZ coordinates (orientation) of entanglement. "Asymptotic Freedom", and "flux tubes" are logically based on this concept. The Dirac “belt trick” also reveals the concept of twist in the ½ spin of subatomic particles. If each twist cycle is proportional to h, we have identified the source of Quantum Mechanics as a consequence twist cycle geometry. Modern physicists say the Strong Force is mediated by a constant exchange of Gluons. The diagrams produced by some modern physicists actually represent the Strong Force like a spring connecting the two quarks. Asymptotic Freedom acts like real springs. Their drawing is actually more correct than their theory and matches perfectly to what I am saying in this model. You cannot separate the Gluons from the Quarks because they are a part of the same thing. The Quarks are the places where the Gluons are entangled with each other. Neutrinos would be made up of a twisted torus (like a twisted donut) within this model. The twist in the torus can either be Right-Hand or Left-Hand. Some twisted donuts can be larger than others, which can produce three different types of neutrinos. If a twisted tube winds up on one end and unwinds on the other end as it moves through space, this would help explain the “spin” of normal particles, and perhaps also the “Higgs Field”. However, if the end of the twisted tube joins to the other end of the twisted tube forming a twisted torus (neutrino), would this help explain “Parity Symmetry” violation in Beta Decay? Could the conversion of twist cycles to writhe cycles through the process of supercoiling help explain “neutrino oscillations”? Spatial curvature (mass) would be conserved, but the structure could change. ===================== Gravity is a result of a very small curvature imbalance within atoms. (This is why the force of gravity is so small.) Instead of attempting to explain matter as "particles", this concept attempts to explain matter more in the manner of our current understanding of the space-time curvature of gravity. If an electron has qualities of both a particle and a wave, it cannot be either one. It must be something else. Therefore, a "particle" is actually a structure which stores spatial curvature. Can an electron-positron pair (which are made up of opposite directions of twist) annihilate each other by unwinding into each other producing Gamma Ray photons? Does an electron travel through space like a threaded nut traveling down a threaded rod, with each twist cycle proportional to Planck’s Constant? Does it wind up on one end, while unwinding on the other end? Is this related to the Higgs field? Does this help explain the strange ½ spin of many subatomic particles? Does the 720 degree rotation of a 1/2 spin particle require at least one extra dimension? Alpha decay occurs when the two protons and two neutrons (which are bound together by entangled tubes), become un-entangled from the rest of the nucleons . Beta decay occurs when the tube of a down quark/gluon in a neutron becomes overtwisted and breaks producing a twisted torus (neutrino) and an up quark, and the ejected electron. The production of the torus may help explain the “Symmetry Violation” in Beta Decay, because one end of the broken tube section is connected to the other end of the tube produced, like a snake eating its tail. The phenomenon of Supercoiling involving twist and writhe cycles may reveal how overtwisted quarks can produce these new particles. The conversion of twists into writhes, and vice-versa, is an interesting process, which is also found in DNA molecules. Could the production of multiple writhe cycles help explain the three generations of quarks and neutrinos? If the twist cycles increase, the writhe cycles would also have a tendency to increase. Gamma photons are produced when a tube unwinds producing electromagnetic waves. ( Mass=1/Length ) The “Electric Charge” of electrons or positrons would be the result of one twist cycle being displayed at the 3D-4D surface interface of the particle. The physical entanglement of twisted tubes in quarks within protons and neutrons and mesons displays an overall external surface charge of an integer number. Because the neutrinos do not have open tube ends, (They are a twisted torus.) they have no overall electric charge. Within this model a black hole could represent a quantum of gravity, because it is one cycle of spatial gravitational curvature. Therefore, instead of a graviton being a subatomic particle it could be considered to be a black hole. The overall gravitational attraction would be caused by a very tiny curvature imbalance within atoms. In this model Alpha equals the compactification ratio within the twistor cone, which is approximately 1/137. 1= Hypertubule diameter at 4D interface 137= Cone’s larger end diameter at 3D interface where the photons are absorbed or emitted. The 4D twisted Hypertubule gets longer or shorter as twisting or untwisting occurs. (720 degrees per twist cycle.) How many neutrinos are left over from the Big Bang? They have a small mass, but they could be very large in number. Could this help explain Dark Matter? Why did Paul Dirac use the twist in a belt to help explain particle spin? Is Dirac’s belt trick related to this model? Is the “Quantum” unit based on twist cycles? I started out imagining a subatomic Einstein-Rosen Bridge whose internal surface is twisted with either a Right-Hand twist, or a Left-Hand twist producing a twisted 3D/4D membrane. This topological Soliton model grew out of that simple idea. I was also trying to imagine a way to stuff the curvature of a 3 D sine wave into subatomic particles.

[@markedis5902]

Dude, you need to relax. That is a mega post!

[@Valdagast]

You need to put this into mathematics and have it make predictions if you want to be taken seriously by the physics community.

[@lightdark00]

I hope you just didn't sit here on the video to write all that.

[@buttecake]

Maybe instead of tubes they are made of some sort of pasta, perhaps spaghetti?

[@schifoso]

🤪

[@anderswallin9868]

Fermilab ppl try to do stuff, while CERN are decades ahead. Just embarrassing.

[@paulmichals]

Not true as many Scientists from Fermilab work at CERN. Experimental Science is a collaboration. Fermilab is also still doing cutting edge Neutrino Particle Physics (news.fnal.gov/2024/02/excavation-of-colossal-caverns-for-fermilabs-dune-experiment-completed/) and Muon Particle Physics (muon-g-2.fnal.gov/).

[@HappyBear376]

Got any white men?

[@sephrinx4958]

??? 3:00

[@ax14pz107]

If they qualify for the job, yeah. These are jobs that require skill, not social prestige, so just being a white man isn't enough to be handed a job.

[@Peter_Riis_DK]

Struck me too, Bear. DEI at work.

[@lightdark00]

Well looks like DEI has not let them get the best people for the jobs.

[@jordonharris9098]

Kind of racist of you to assume that the people in this video are there due to some diversity quota.

[@lightdark00]

@@jordonharris9098 I don't support anti-whiteism, like you appear to do.

[@jordonharris9098]

@@lightdark00 I’m not a proponent of DEI either, I was just commenting on your assumption that the people in this video are diversity hires, which is racist

[@ax14pz107]

I'm sorry you're not skilled enough and have to rely on being a white male. 😢

[@paulmichals]

Having been built in the mid 1960s there was no DEI sort of thing then that is so upsetting to you now. When I worked there (1986 - 1994) the lab was naturally diverse. Helen Edwards (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_T._Edwards) was Head of the Accelerator Division. Accelerator Operator Shift Crew Chiefs and Accelerator Operators, as was/is the entire lab, were both ethnically and gender diverse.

[@brucermarino]

More politics...

[@craigfowler7098]

Fermilab is 77% male, so why the woke over representation of women being interviewed?

[@sntslilhlpr6601]

Would you rather watch an awkward male geek be interviewed or an awkward female geek? Not everything has to be about the oppression olympics, sometimes it's just about what works on camera. If I worked there I know there'd be a decent chance of my footage not making the cut, and that's ok. I ain't no movie star. I have other strengths. FWIW I do think that woke culture has gone a bit too far as of late. The mask has come off and for a significant fraction of these people it's clearly about demonizing white men, not promoting diversity. But having multiple underachievers whining whenever it had even the tiniest chance of happening is not a good look either. I don't know if you noticed but the main host of this channel who gets all the views is a white guy, same as >90% of the science/engineering/tech channels I watch here. So jumping to conclusions on a vid like this because the handful of people in it didn't line up with your ideal ratio is pretty sad.

[@craigfowler7098]

@@sntslilhlpr6601 Entitled to your viewpoint I guess. Take a look at their website and you will realise they have targets under diversity and inclusion which is counter to employing the best people regardless of gender and or background.

[@stargazer7644]

Using the term "woke" broadcasts your ignorance to the rest of the world. This isn't a good look.

[@ShuoreBangla]

Wow