FFXIV: Shadowbringers Lorebombs - Light and Darkness

[@ZephWraen]

ASTRAL Fire stops your mana from regenerating. UMBRAL Ice causes you to regenerate mana at an accelerated rate. My mind is blown at never making the connection before.

[@vlaknall]

Isn't that opposite of what he just said? I thought astral was growth and umbral was stasis

[@CheezitNinja]

@@vlaknall Astral is incorrectly associated with Light by Eorzean aetherologists in the source, but astral also refers to points in Eorzea's history with growth and change. Given that thaumaturges are likely extremely well versed in aetherology due to the nature of the class, they likely named the fire state based on the light-leaning polarization of the aether, and the ice state after the dark-leaning polarization. Light aspected fire halts regeneration, and dark aspected ice accelerates it. If Eorzean thaumaturges were apprised of the knowledge we learned in the first (Light = stasis, dark = growth), it would be highly likely they would rename the states to Umbral Fire and Astral Ice to correctly reference both the polarized state and the nature of each.

[@John-if9ig]

@@CheezitNinja Would it not stay the same since Astral Fire stops your mana from regening therefore in stasis and umbral let you regen mana therefore growth

[@CheezitNinja]

@@John-if9ig given they named the states after the light vs dark aspecting rather than what astral and umbral mean in relation to the calamities, I think they'd change them based on the new knowledge that astral means stasis and umbral means growth in regards to light vs dark

[@wretchedabyss1394]

@@CheezitNinja Perhaps that's the next stage in Blm job quests. With WoL and Lalai being reinducted into the Arrzaneth Ossuary as masters of Black Magic with legal authority to openly practice it. We'll be able to help extend the knowledge of thaumaturges on the nature of magic while also accessing tomes once prohibited to us.

[@jasonjackunderwood2839]

“Everything we thought we knew” has never rung so true.

[@jamesmcnally178]

Whm holy ability stuns. I guess now it fits lore

[@canisblack]

...holy crap. I knew they had this stuff planned for a while, but the sheer amount of foreshadowing they do is absolutely ludicrous, especially as they apparently build it into the actually game mechanics!

[@polydipsiac]

canisblack is that why they killed AST’s celestial opposition stun? :’(

[@canisblack]

@@polydipsiac I have no idea what that is. The only Healer I've ever played was WHM, and the less said about my forays into playing DPS the better. My highest physical DPS only reached 60 after Shadowbringers started and my only magical DPS is at 50 (where it started).

[@GrandCatapult]

White magic protects, guards, restores, maintains. Black magic destroys, impacts, overhauls. Eorzea at least got that right.

[@gtetrakai]

Holy has always been unaspected, though

[@andveeterfeuerstein6265]

a note on the elemental differences between the Source and the First is that it mirrors the way real life cultures view certain colors... for instance in most western european countries Black is a color of mourning because it's the color of the death and decay (black decay for instance) while white is the color of purity and used in weddings... in a handful of other cultures this is backwards as Black is the color of fertility (such as black loamy soil) while white is the color of mourning (such as a pale corpse). FF works well with confusing us because most everyone connotes Darkness with bad and Light with good... but using Norvrandt's VS Eorzea's model and that we know explicitly that neither is inherently good or evil we could also call them Chaos and Order... as in darkness/chaos gives rise to change and light/order gives rise to stasis... which again to much of either would have drastic consequences.

[@mattg6106]

This doesn't have much to do with the point of the conversation but I wanted to just point out that the Western viewpoint of 'wearing a white dress for your wedding to symbolize purity' is relatively new in our history and also a lie to cover up the original purpose. The white wedding dress, and cake, became popular after Queen Victoria did it in 1840 (but she wasn't the first). It was never popular before then in Western culture and it was done strictly to show off wealth as white fabric was nearly impossible to keep as such for the majority of people. It was pretty much a physical metaphor stating how she never had to lift a finger if she didn't want to.

[@TrungTran-yg3uv]

Well, white associated with death isn't pale corpse, because a corpse still has colour. White here refers to white bones. Source: Asian person growing up in Asia

[@starshade7826]

Though this view of Chaos and Order is common in video games, a year or so ago someone showed me a thought-provoking image that was a pine branch that was whole and healthy and labeled it "Order." The next image had the pine branch with all its needles plucked off and sorted from shortest to longest with the branch itself after the longest pine needle. This was labeled "Chaos." ...pretty sure the ancients in the real world would have agreed with this.

[@Z0mgXenu1]

I can't express how happy I am that we have more lore videos coming down the pipe

[@eolendes6432]

Light, stillness, order- Alexander's ability to stop time.

[@ZephWraen]

I thought his Light aspected abilities and his Time Magics were totally unrelated at the time. That fits really well.

[@l.madrid8815]

@@ZephWraen they are he is like the time primal

[@starwyvern010]

I like that we accidentally attributed the Astral and Umbral eras correctly. Umbral used to mean, basically, dark times, but it's when EVERYTHING is happening (calamity), versus Astral eras when things are still and calm between calamities.

[@shinkamui]

mm astral still means energetic and chaotic, and umbral still means passive and still. The only thing eorzeans got mixed up is associating astral with the light element and umbral with dark element. I guess a more fitting interpretation is that an umbral era is when civilization is halted, and an astral era is when stuff is active and people can progress their lives

[@PregnantOrc]

Dark being the more active aspect fits very well. Cloud of Darkness wanting to invade, a very active action, and the various voidspawn and voidsent we've seen were all very active, often instant threats, while light related things have required a lot of effort to set into motion, like white auracite requiring a lot of aether to be activated. So its really nice that the signs were there all along.

[@tuck295q]

Entropy darkness vs order light. A complete order is also nothing, completely blank.

[@Vanitas369]

Vauthry, who ruled by keeping his people fat and complacent. Inactive and passive as hell. Cloud of darkness has a version on the first after all.

[@starshade7826]

@@tuck295q Which is odd since maximum entropy would be stasis.

[@michealcummings6801]

Here is the scariest part, each of the remained shards might have a different viewpoint about everything including Umbral light and Astral Darkness. I love this game

[@galephantom7902]

I got a feeling ethys will be using that table/room for lore videos going forward

[@ZephWraen]

I'm loving the Urianger facepalms

[@LupusArcavius]

Is Ethys truly back??? Be still my heart

[@p0mander877]

I'd LOVE to discuss or at least see discussed the interesting dichotomy between the use of Emet-Selch as the antagonist's name and the character 'Hythlodaeus' being included as one of his recreations of the dead. Emet-Selch, of course, is the 'angel of truth' and, as it turns out, he wasn't ever dishonest with us. Hythlodaeus, however, means 'peddler of nonsense', and the most notable literary reference I can think it might be linked to would be the character Raphael Hythlodaeus from Thomas More's 'Utopia'. Utopia has Raphael Hythlodaeus as the good news giver of the island of 'Utopia', and a dogmatic and staunch believer in its ways. He's known to be rather long winded and a bit eccentric. I can't imagine they used that name without intending it to relate, on some level at least, back to the original source of the name. And given that Hythlodaeus appeared to be the only aware Amaurotite--aware to the point of recognizing that Ardbert was traveling in tow of the WoL/WoD--AND that the constructed city still stands and is evolving, despite Emet-Selch's demise, I would venture to say we haven't seen the last of him, either.

[@theaquaraven]

The parallels with Utopia are huge. The capital city of Utopia is Amaurot, and what we've seen from the Ancients' society has been overwhelmingly similar to More's Utopian society, including the desire to all wear the same robes so that no one stands out or has a different rank. The only exception is that there is a council, both in the book and in the game, to drive decisions. Hythlodaeus is interesting as well. In Utopia, Hythlodaeus is the only one who calls out that Utopia isn't real, so I think in FFXIV it's just a play on words - but the fact that his first name is Raphael is not only another angel reference, it's also specifically an angel who would be a messenger of truth, the one who means healing from God. Hmmm

[@p0mander877]

@@theaquaraven it's absolutely fascinating. I was in awe the whole ride through Amaurot, massive, quasi-futuristic Grecian megatropolis aside. They always do a fantastic job of weaving in real myths and legends and works of great literary merit into their story and this was no exception. I do hope we get to meet Hythlodaeus again so that we might pick their brain further and see just what significance they may have to the greater narrative.

[@p0mander877]

I have to wonder at the choice behind the name, though. Perhaps it's only in reference to his understanding that this version of Amaurot is fake as Utopia's Raphael Hythlodaeus was aware (though dogmatic in his belief of their customs and practices) that the island of Utopia was a fabrication. Or will we see him lying to us in future quest chains, as the translation of the name suggests.

[@Ladywizard]

He also from what I recall on the reddit discussions has the esper mask of truth

[@Ladywizard]

@@Saevien Think one brief line said it'll slowly fade away again to just the real ruins it is but no there's no more of that one after the msq. The only quests in that zone atm are the msq and the current quests

[@Hickeroar]

Thanks for explaining this so well. When this happened in the story, I lacked some of the background on why things were thought to be the way they were, and this explained it nicely.

[@BroadwayRonMexico]

What I want to know about are gremlins. We see them with voidsent in The Source, and by all means seem like voidsent. But even after clearing voidsent from Amdapor, gremlins are still around, and in the First, we see them mixed with packs of sin eaters, and they are the only ones in those packs with intelligence and speech (which voidsent have)

[@genesisSOC]

The whole point of science is trying to prove it wrong constantly.

[@catboy_on_main]

I'm extremely interested in hearing more about the calamities, especially since we got confirmation on what elemental alignment each of the previous ones were attuned to. Thanks so much for your vids, Ethys!!! Can't wait for the next one.

[@Vanitas369]

We kind of already knew there was and earthquake, an ice age and a flood. Idk about lightning, fire or wind but those were confirmed.

[@starshade7826]

First the Ascians fumbled and messed up the Thirteenth, producing a Flood of Darkness without a corresponding calamity on the Source, so the Thirteenth is just ruined as a Void. If I have the organization of the worlds correct (assuming they go clockwise from the Source) The Fifth was destroyed in a Calamity of Wind. The Twelfth was destroyed in a Calamity of Lightning. The Second was destroyed in a Calamity of Fire The Third was destroyed in a Calamity of Earth The Sixth was destroyed in a Calamity of Ice The Tenth was destroyed in a Calamity of Water and finally, the Ninth was destroyed in a Flood of Darkness which actually successfully rejoined it to the Source, unlike the Thirteenth. And now, the First is at-risk of a Flood of Light. This leaves the Fourth, Seventh, Eighth, and Eleventh unaccounted for. Due to shenanigans it is possible, but improbable, that these other worlds may include real!Ivalice and Vana'diel. (No points for guessing which one Vana'diel would be on.) As for what, exactly, happened during the earlier calamities, Eorzean mythology seems to claim that the Twelve used to walk among men, but returned to the heavens after the First Calamity. Maybe the Ascians intentionally or accidentally started the Eorzean faith in the Twelve? HMMM...

[@DavidTimothy]

It still feels... incomplete. There's still more to learn.

[@Hickeroar]

Yeah, the point releases are going to be awesome.

[@PsycoMouse]

@@Hickeroar knowing what we know now, I would love to see Krile start to make sense of it. Her knowledge plus this new revelation might uncover some deeper truths.

[@TheZorch]

Umbral Ice restores MP for BLM, this has been staring us in our faces since 2.0 and nobody noticed. Holy shit!

[@fallenhighwind12]

Glad to see your videos in KZbin coming back ethys we missed you buddy ❤️

[@AnnahHinman]

I am calling it now. The Scions that we know are the spiritual reincarnations of the 12. They were part of the 12 who summoned Hydalaeyn. We were part of that counsel too but I dont think we (Warrior of Light) were the actual 12. I believe the scions were. Moogles said they served the 12 before they left and then Hyur and other races came. This is in direct relation to the 12 leaving, meaning the 12 counsel who summons Hydaleayn left because the star was sundered into 13 and so was the 12...and all the ancients became other races. But maybe that is for another video ;)

[@DarthSanguine]

That would require that they have the Echo.

[@AnnahHinman]

not necessarily. Nothing about the ancients and the 12 requires you to have the echo...otherwise every race and person would have the echo as we all came from those source beginnings and then we splintered

[@pablovieira6905]

All the revelations just remind me of the quote "What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so."

[@HadeaRin]

It took me one year to understand why the difference in perspective between the Source and First affect the progression of the 8 UC. The counter for Black Rose that use Light Aether is of Dark Aether but the misconception in Source would associate with Darkness and would try to fight it back using Light aspect as it thus makes the Calamity goes out of hands. Honestly this makes more sense in my brain but when i put it in words it felt that i'm wording it wrong lol

[@KonDragon008]

I love the FFXIV lore, and ShB brought so much of it that my head was spinning for days after I finished the msq. Even now, there's just so much given to us...and I want to learn even more of it. Sometimes, the terminology does confuse me a little when I hear it aloud (I've always been more of a visual learner)...but once I can look at it and my brain makes sense of it, it's just amazing. (spoilers below) Looking forward to hearing you touch upon the Calamities! It got me thinking that a Calamity is really just the catalyst for the rejoining; that once all the pieces are in place (an inbalance in one of the elements...or all of them as of the 7th Calamity), the Ascians need to pull some strings (and what better strings than the all powerful Garlean empire) to push ahead with a large loss of life on the Source when one of the Shards is ready for the rejoining. It makes me curious of what the previous Calamities were on the Source; I believe the Eorzean Encyclopedia briefly mentions that it was a Calamity which turned Coerthas into a frozen wasteland. One can also surmise that The Burn must have been the location of yet another Calamity since the land was radically changed (and especially since, in the cutscene with Thancred and Ryne at the end, they were traversing a location which looked eerily like the Burn). Cartenau and Mor Dhona suffered as a result of the 7th Calamity...then there are the crystal formations in Thanalan as well. So that gives us at least four places on the Source which suffered due to the Calamities (Cartenau/Fogfens/Mor Dhona, the Burn, Coerthas, Eastern Thanalan). Knowing that the goal of the Ascians is to offer up the lives of the people of the Source to bring back the souls of the ancients who sacrificed themselves to summon Zodiark, it makes sense that it would effect the land and the life dwelling in various places in the Source. That's just my own theory on it; that the events (like Bahamut bringing about the 7th Calamity) on the Source are the catalysts to complete the rejoining once a Shard is imbalanced. So, of course, I'm super curious and eager to hear your take on the entire thing. During Shadowbringers, I kept constantly thinking about "Answers" and how on-point the lyrics were with what was happening throughout the storyline. Some of it was even quoted nearly word for word or action for action in the pre-Calamity events. That song always gave me goosebumps, but now I get them even more whenever I think that perhaps we just walked the path of that song; that not only was it about the 7th Calamity, but applied to all of the Calamities.

[@Ladywizard]

The Burn was already answered in the main story... Allagans ripped their sky lands up out of Burn which drained it of aether

[@KonDragon008]

@@Ladywizard I forget if a reason was given for the Allagans doing that, but the Ascians were around back then as well (they've been around since the beginning)...what's to say that perhaps at least part of the reason wasn't due to their meddling in creating Calamities and the Rejoining?

[@Veddea]

5:58 You've been visited by the golden muscular magikarp. Let yourself absorb into his maw and get lucky for the the next 7 years.

[@SirVyre]

I didn't really find this to be that much of a lore bomb. Ever since taking up Dark Knight in Heavensward, it's been mildly apparent. DRK's whole mantra is, "Be the change you wish to see by whatever means, drop everything that restrains you or your purpose." Then there's WHM, where the role is bound by tradition and they make a huge deal that you're a non-Padjali being allowed to learn and practice White Magic. Holy causes stun. On Astrologian prior to 5.0 they had Celestial Opposition(which I mistakenly referred to as Astral Stasis very often), which, when you apply synonyms to the words they used can also be, "Divine Obstruction." Which also caused a stun. In most of the quests you seek to heal taint and restore land or prevent seals from breaking. Basically maintain the status quo, regardless of if that's the best option or not. Spoilers under here. Diving deeper with what we learn from Emet Selch, Zodiark was made to combat the very first calamity by changing the laws of reality. Hydaelyn was made specifically to oppose and restrict him, i.e. allow no more changes to the laws of reality. She did this by breaking him into pieces until he could no longer recognize himself or have the power to act.

[@stampede274]

I think it's possible that both are wrong and that Light and Dark are *elements* while Astral and Umbral are *polarities.* Thus it is possible to have Umbral Darkness and Astral Light as well as Astral Darkness and Umbral Light.

[@vulcwen]

Light = umbral = stasis and the power to restrict makes so much sense, like with everything. It still kinda makes sense to call the time during/after a calamity an umbral era, it's a time where civilization grinds to a halt and falls apart. It even explains some of why you as a WoL can do what you can do, you restrict the power of your opponent with light. Light used in a specific way can restrict connections, thus splitting things apart, which you actually do when using the blade of light: you sunder an ascian into a million pieces to the point essentially nothing is left. I think sin eaters would be created in a similar way: break apart the soul of a living being (after which the natural flow of aether is broken as well). It was happening to the WoL as well, the soul cracks under the corruption of light.

[@BroadwayRonMexico]

Dark=Astral=change works just as well for calamity eras though as well. The ones we know of are full of chaos and strife after all

[@FinalDragoon]

I wish there was more than 3 sidequests(technically 4 if you add the unlock quest for Akadaemia Anyder) in Amaurot. That area alone is one of the most fascinating locations from both a lore and aesthetic standing. I want more to do there besides occasionally clearing a hunt log of the 1 enemy type in the city.

[@AsherReigns]

I’m really happy to see more lore videos.

[@BeanBanditSV]

So you say that Eorzean scholars have been wrong all this time, but I guess I don't understand how. From your own description and from what Urianger said, it seems that Eorzeans weren't so much wrong as they were just seeing it from a different perspective. Looking at it from the Norvrandtian perspective certainly provides a lot of information that Eorzea didn't have, but I guess I don't understand how they were wrong? As you said, Norvrandtians focused on the cause, Eorzeans focused on the effect. Both should be valid, no?

[@dremmerd]

MORE, KEEP THIS UP, AMAZING CONTENT!!

[@anthonydelfino6171]

Help me understand something if you would please? The chart showing the elements in Uriangier's home, the one you show in the video, shows both fire and ice being connected by the white triangle, and I had assumed that meant they were both umbral elements. How does this relate to the black mages having an astral fire stance rather than umbral fire? Or.... am I just misreading what those lines mean, and the top three elements on the chart are astral and the bottom three umbral? And if so, what do the lines connecting the elements represent?

[@TroidHunter]

the 6 elements pictured can be umbral or astral, i think. i don't know if the lines connecting them have any relation to their astral/umbral leanings.

[@damascar3639]

Those lines represents the relationship between elements, not their pole. I think they're called conquests? Anyway name isn't important. The one you pointed out represent the relationship of fire and ice , or rather of fire that meld the ice, that cover against wind, that blew off the fire. That's the origin of the elemental wheel weekness and resistance in eureka for example. Eache element exists in both umbral and astal foem btw , as ethys mention in the video they simply represent the statr of "passive " element and " active" element. An active fire infused material is volatile, a passive fire infused material is dry for example

[@PregnantOrc]

Astral fire is just fire and does what fire does best. You don't want it acting on its own or spreading uncontrollably, which would be risks of Umbral Fire. I don't know the link between Ice and mana regeneration but its an active effect related to the element but not something natural ice provides and by making it Umbral aspected it you can tap into that quality of it. That is how I figure it works at least. I feel the Astral Fire part makes sense but as you can see the ice part is lacking a bit so far

[@patrickbuckley7259]

@@PregnantOrc What is cold if not the absence of heat, If astral fire is more destructive than Umbral Ice would be much colder and more potent than Astral Ice which would likely be just a mild chill. Aslo suing Umbral Ice might move your Aether more toward the Umbral Pole, thus placing it in a state of "Rest" where it can recuperate. Keep in mind up until now healing spells have always been pretty glowy, so light is probably still the healing element. Which means the Umbral pole is now the healing pole.

[@ChinchillaDRF]

I lol'd so hard at "AND ANSWERS!" i think i woke up my roomates :/ lol

[@justingrantham2112]

I've been curious as to what happened to Minfillia, it's clear she relinquished her hold over her latest body but does that mean she "died"? As I recall her original body drifted on the aetherial stream until arriving at the crystal where she became a speaker for Hydelin, I always assumed she left this body behind to travel to the first where without a body she had to possess one. Now that she has given what power she had over, does that mean her soul dispersed into Ryne or had her soul left the first and traveled back to the crystal?

[@aerialdive]

minfillia is gone, she gave the rest of herself her power to ryne

[@DarthSanguine]

She fused with Ryne in the same way that Ardbert fused with us.

[@Prich319]

Minfilia is gone. Ryne becoming her own character, but retaining her powers as the oracle of light is pretty much proof of that.

[@JoelBear49]

Was the first not in trouble of being completely consumed by light and therefore having another "void (13th)" situation until Minfillia intervened, or am I misunderstanding how the Light functions, I was under the impression Sin Eaters were the same as Voidsent but the opposite polarity.

[@sapphomet9115]

They are, basically. The difference between a normal Rejoining and what happened to the void is that with the void there was no corresponding Calamity going on in the Source at the same time that shard was being overwhelmed. Or that's my understanding of it anyway.

[@kwan3800]

First I think you are forgetting about the rejoining. The first can not become a void because it has aether. Therefore, it would not become a void but be rejoined with the source. The void on the other hand is the called the void because it is "void of all aether". Second Sin Eaters and Voidsent are not "opposite polarities". In fact I would say that they are very close to the same polarity with the only difference being that Sin Eaters have aether but that aether is mostly unusable. Sin Eaters are mostly light aether which stops the flow of aether they want to eat living aether as a medicine to keep their aether flowing. Voidsent have very little aether and are aether starved so they will eat any aether that they come acrossed. Hopefully that made sense.

[@JoelBear49]

@@kwan3800 ahh, maybe i misinterpreted what they said about the light stopping the flow of aether, i presumed that would happen on a global scale if the world were to be fully overrun with the light.

[@azadalamiq]

@@sapphomet9115 pretty much if u pay attention to HW and waring triad ypu find that igomy did TOO good of a job. and the 13ths WoL was born too late. while the WoL on the first did too good of a job and that's how the flood started.

[@fleeplayTV]

you definitely have to talk about the bigeest lore bomb this expansion, We are the 14 Ascian.

[@GBS4893]

4:00 you mean umbral right? the extra umbral aether from norvrandt reinforces the energy stagnation effect of the black rose, stagnation, light.

[@vlaknall]

Yea i got confused when he said that

[@JusteFantastico]

I think you might've gotten a bit jumbled up on the part with the black rose. It causes stillness, so it's umbral. That terminology still works, it's just that that umbral = light. Black rose is umbral/light. Something active would be astral/dark.

[@patrickbuckley7259]

Actually no, the words Astral and Umbral are just fancy ways to say light and dark. Astral comes from Astra the latin word for Star, and Umbral comes from Umber a very, very dark brown. So separating those words like that is just going to feel clumsy and make anyone who knows their roots go stur crazy.

[@JusteFantastico]

@@patrickbuckley7259 Actually yes. The whole revelation was that light is umbral and dark is Astral. That's literally the whole thing.

[@patrickbuckley7259]

@@JusteFantastico No the reveal was that the Active pole was Umbral (Or Darkness) and the passive pole is Astral (Or Light). Umbral and Astral are just the Sources way of referring to Darkness and Light respectively.

[@starshade7826]

@@patrickbuckley7259 No, you have it backwards. The Eorzeans refer to them by their *effects* while the Nordvrantians refer to them by their *causes*. The result of the Dark is Astral. (Think of the stars in the sea of darkness to remember it) and the result of Light is Umbral. (Think of the shadows that are necessarily cast by the light to remember it. You can't have shadows in pitch black.) ONE MORE THING: I think it was the writers' INTENTION to make people go stur crazy. ha ha ha... it is a rather surprising and mildly annoying revelation to anyone steeped in real world philosophies where Light or its equivalent is Active and Dark or its equivalent is Passive.

[@TheShadowfan9000]

My biggest question, which this never seemed to be answered or asked about at all, just implied "it was". We know a calamity was befalling Amaurot and pretty much the entire original world.... causing them to need to summon Zodiark in desperation to pacify it all, but in turn it making Hydaelyn from the other believers who found problems with Zodiark's manifestation. MY QUESTION IS.... WHAT HAPPENED TO CAUSE THE CALAMITY TO BEGIN WITH? We know the star was overrun with beasts, showers of fire, hell created from the syphoned despair/misery of them all.... but WHAT caused it to begin with. What created this whole calamity to cause reason to summon Zodiark. "Why" did it happen, not just how and what happened.

[@pletter64]

Since the cause was linked with creations of the mind one would logically conclude that the entity who caused this was an ancient. But since the phenomena was widespread I would say it was a sickness that was intentionally spread. An ancient could simply have made a creature that could mess with your mind which would turn creations into hideous monsters. One would only have to look at who benefits to see why it was done, and I would say it was to gain approval of the summoning of Zodiark. The ancients would otherwise never have agreed to sacrifice half of their number. And considering it was the council's idea in the first place, I would say the mastermind between it all was Elidibus who now calls himself the emissary. After all he was the architect of Zodiark.

[@TheShadowfan9000]

@@pletter64Smart.

[@Silverstreak3984]

My theory is that the ancients were drawing aether from the land even though they truly believed it was coming from their bodies.

[@tophergerkey]

My favorite theory is that the only apocalypse they were facing was the one of their own creation. It was all mass hysteria over the *possibility* of an apocalypse, and mass hysteria + people who can alter reality with their thoughts = actual apocalypse. I suspect that Hydaelyn was created with Her "sundering" powers not just to sunder Zodiark, but specifically to sunder the world and the people, leaving them too weak to cause another disaster in the same way they caused the first one.

[@KianaWolf]

@@tophergerkey My thoughts as well. Consider the movie Forbidden Planet, or the fate of Atlantis in the anime Escaflowne. And consider how the sidequests in the remnants of Amaurot comment on just how *easily* their creations can be altered, like one NPC mentions thinking up a lion when an eagle flew by, thereby creating a griffon. All it would take is one person imagining how the world might end to get that ball rolling. People hear about distant chaos and destruction, that sparks their imagination, those thoughts and fears are constantly on their mind, so every time they try to create something that fear slips in... Side note: I suspect that distant land across the sea they mention, where the apocalypse started, may have been Merycidia. That could actually explain why there are dragons on the First, as well as how a book in the Cabinet of Curiousity mentions Omega: That Midgardsormr and Omega came from another star, the people of the pre-Sundering world saw them fight, panicked and chaos spread. (Though that is *purely* speculation and partially fueled by my desire to see dragon grandpa again. The story of Omega could also have been brought over through the Crystal Tower, too...)

[@livale8337]

Light being passiveness and Dark being activeness also plays into the differences between Sin Eaters and Voidsent I think. While Sin Eaters could hardly be described as inactive, they don't grow or progress. You become a Sin Eater and then your one desire is to eat people and make more sin eaters. They don't make plans, employ tactics, or anything of the sort naturally, instead requiring an outside influence capable of controlling them to actually make them do that and even then said influence could arguably be described as the definition of "passive". They're also fairly uniform, with dramatic differences often being due to outstanding circumstances such as being a Lightwarden. Compare this with the Voidsent, conniving, plotting, scheming. Rather than straight up killing their victims many use their victims as a way to get more aether (Thaumaturgy Questline for example), and some further simply want power for Power's sake. They're violent, unpredictable, one might even say mischievous. They often have extreme personalities such as Ferdiad's whimsy, Ultros' perversion, and Diabolos' diabolical-ness. The closest any Voidsent has been to "passive" was the Cloud of Darkness and then, only in her ultimate goal which was to just turn the Source into nothingness, and even then that was ARR and they've been known to perform slight retcons before.

[@ICRIXSTEALTHX]

Hey Ethys, love your videos. Just for clarification wouldn't Black Rose be Umbral as that is the polarity of stasis? I might have misunderstood though, I'm still trying to rap my head around everything dropped in the expac!

[@kingoverseas9052]

It's Black Roses very nature to have a stasis like like effect on the aether in one's body thus its connection to astral/light.

[@bainbonic]

@@kingoverseas9052 Astral is Darkness, not Light. It would be Umbral. I assume he simply misspoke.

[@kingoverseas9052]

@@bainbonic I don't think it's as simple as reversing the words, especially since a balance is required to not have either cause a calamity.

[@bainbonic]

@@kingoverseas9052 No I mean in Ethys' video he accidentally called Light "Astral" in the sense of Astral being something static, which is a mistake. But he only said it once and the rest of the time he correctly said that Light is Umbral as both Light and the Umbral pole revolve around stasis or sloth, whereas Darkness and the Astral pole are all about activity and change. Neither is inherently good or evil and both are required for life and civilisation to properly function.

[@JusteFantastico]

I caught this too. He just misspoke. It's an easy mistake to make because we've all assumed light is astral for so long now. Black Rose *is* light aligned, but that means it's umbral aligned. Astral Darkness - Creation/chaos Umbral Light - Preservation/stasis That's the easiest way to remember it, imo.

[@neoandroid8586]

Is your next video soon? I cant wait to hear your point of view on Amaourt and what happened there. As well as the calamity video. Just found your channel but defintley subbing

[@DarklordofBarovia]

Those pages early on in the video - are they in-game or are they from a book and if so which one?

[@Shadowghost36]

Huh, I thought it was just a case of terminology. In the Source, Light is considered Astral, but Light itself isn't an element. The name of "light" is just something we give to the Astral pole. Same for Darkness. In the First, they used the name of "light" to describe the Umbral pole, however Light itself still isn't an element. Is it possible that the "Flood of Light" and it's form was somehow affected by the mass belief of Light as being inherently Umbral, in the same way that a Primal's form is affected by the belief of those summoning it?

[@lucasvillasboas5562]

So the previous understanding of light and darkness, was that astral creates light, and umbral creates darkness correct? But how did we get to this conclusion? Sure astral made eras of growth and prosperity, while umbral made scarcity, but how are those related to light and dark? Did we just make the assumption that light=good and dark=bad? Also how is Urianger's example showing how dark creates astral? In his example all colors combine making black, wouldn't that mean that astral makes dark and not the other way around? That also brings the question of if Hydaelyn is really good, if she is light and Zodiark is dark, and both light and dark are can be bad in excess, with even the umbral eras being caused by light apparentely. Wouldn't that mean that Hyaedalyn is just as bad as Zodiark? Why would she want to protect life? She should instead be trying to bring the world to absolute stasis.

[@RaddyC]

I only have 1 question: why is eorzivia not called Triveorzea?

[@gailardios]

Remember everyone. You can easily support Ethys and his YT videos by becoming a patron on his patreon. He will still be doing lore videos no matter what but this allows him to have a direct support just incase YT does and demonitises him. www.patreon.com/ethysasher/overview he greatly appreciates it.

[@cyrinius1979]

Very nice video . Well done !

[@miracleman.0126]

I’m curious on what’s the explanation for certain white Magics restoring? Does it just happen to be astra light(in terms of the first)?

[@blessedwhitney]

Why are we assuming that the philosophers of the first are correct? Their understanding is restricted by the shard they are on, just as the philosophers of the source were restricted by their location. We don't have any evidence that they are 100% right, though it can give us cause to doubt that traditional Eorzean metaphysics is 100% right. Also, perhaps both are equally wrong and equally right -- maybe both astral and umbral have an aspect of activeness and an aspect of passiveness? Maybe the polarities also have polarities?

[@patrickbuckley7259]

O.o That would be the coolest twist. Very Ying Yang (Also it doesn't break the White Mage and Black Mage Lore in half). You could even say they will tend to one pole but will possess elements of the other pole. With them sometimes tending towards one pole on one shard and the other pole on other shards.

[@starshade7826]

Urianger is simply presently under the impression that the First's aetherology may be closer to the mark. Though he also says that the Source names it for its effects while the First names it from its causes. HMM

[@suitrBJ]

Still haven't been able to buy lore book why can't they not charge so much for shipping

[@TheQwuilleran]

this is still so confusing. prisms literally break white light into myriad colors. black is the absence of color. light is energy, motion, change. darkness is absence of light, stasis, equilibrium. Umbra refers to the deepest darkest part of a shadow when it occludes a light source. Light is perception of moving energy. Do these things mean something different in non-English or non-Latin-based languages, or non-European-based societies?

[@PsycoMouse]

My question I would liked explored is how close did Allag or Nym get to this understanding. What we have learned from those societies might be misreads all around.

[@inuclearpickle8628]

I’m curious in past final Fantasys has there been a point where the light been too much my only experience with the games are 10, 14, and 15. I know people have said their needs to be a balance too much of anything is a bad thing from what I’ve seen,

[@jacks1368]

The whole expansion draws heavily from FF3, as does the Crystal Tower raid series from ARR (which turned out to be a prequel to this). In that game you play as the Warriors of Light out to save the Light World from the Cloud of Darkness, however near the end of the game when you go to the Dark World you meet the spirits of your predecessors, the Warriors of Darkness, who saved that world from a Flood of Light.

[@neith85]

Are the water and ice elements in that diagram switched in place? Ice-lightning opposition makes little sense to me

[@juanramos4322]

Here's a thing: The meteors that we see when we first get our echo's may just be a memory of the fall of Amaurot. What could have been assumed to be the "death" of the Keeper of the Lake and the release of primals, was in reality the beginning of the events that lead to the 14th member of the convocation splitting away and summoning Hydaelyn, thus causing the sundering.

[@NavytroyXIV]

Midgardsormr it's way too powerful right now,think about it.He came from the Eldest star,he can deny Hydealyn light,he just won't die,he can pass through dimensions,he can manipulate aether like its nothing... he is just way to powerful right now.

[@starshade7826]

SPOILER ALERT During the Omega questline, he uses up most of his remaining power keeping the WoL safe from Omega. Midgardsormr is now asleep (though he notes you can still call his physical forms, his mind is asleep when you do so until he is done with his probably-aeon-long-nap).

[@FreedomSylph]

@@starshade7826 seems like his nap is over when biggs (the third of his name) sent graha back, and peace seems to finally return to the planet

[@DarthAlphaTheGreat]

FF14-I can’t believe they remade FF3 into an MMO and it’s amazing!

[@starshade7826]

Nah, if it were REALLY FF3 remade as an MMO, literally everyone would dual wield swords. ha ha ha

[@Forrest477]

What if there were such a thing as Astral and Umbral Light and Darkness? The flood of Light on the First was clearly a different sort of thing than the energizing, healing Light of Hydaelyn. Hydaelyn's Light is clearly not the light of stasis, as it is what helps the Warrior of Light grow exponentially in power. Similarly, the Darkness of the Ascians (and it IS darkness because they were Tempered) is not about growth and change, but is what enables their souls to live in eternity, and gives them some of their interesting boss mechanics like temporal stasis and what not.

[@Silverstreak3984]

Hydalens blessing is what's strengthening the PC to do the things she can but we also learned she's now 8 parts of an ancient soul which has given her/him untold strength. I dare say that's more important to the PC strength then the blessing.

[@otakuchan336]

nice video keep up the great work !

[@Nyarlathotepist]

There are hints of Gnosticism sprinkled throughout FF, as well as a smattering of other mythologies. But, Shadowbringers really hammers home the Gnostic elements- namely not that LIGHT GOOD - DARK BAD but rather that they are elemental forces that must be kept in perfect balance or else.. Like the electrodes on a battery. Is the (+) node good and the (-) node evil; or are they both needed to complete a circuit and make energy flow...?

[@BroadwayRonMexico]

Depends on the form of Gnosticism in question. Many have a very clear Platonic duality of light=good, dark=bad (in particular with light being spiritual, dark being the physical which is seen as a prison) Strikes me as more influenced by Daoism and the like

[@Edge2177]

Yay more lore

[@eolendes6432]

Umbral light and Astral Darkness

[@haydarinna631]

So I have a question, not related to this video but potentially related to the other upcoming lorebomb videos. At the SotR spoilercast, it seemed like you thought we have already joined with the other parts of our soul from the shards that rejoined. Is there a lore reason to assume this is true? Wouldn't people from those shards die and their souls just dissipate into the lifestream? If there is a reason for us to assume that we have rejoined with other parts of our soul (then this entire question might seem pretty silly but) what about every other person or creature?

[@daredaemon8878]

Emet-Selch says something along the lines of 'you are of the source, seven times rejoined' at some point, with explicit contrast to the people of the first.

[@Wariyaka]

Emet-Selch directly say we are a soul seven times rejoined. There is at this point no reason to think he was lying as all he have said have been proven true (if not always the whole truth.) My guess is that crystals we have collected and absorbed are actually shards of our soul and that came to the source through the calamities. As to why the soul shards of the WoL (and maybe some others) would not go to the lifestream is however an interesting question. Are Hydaelyn protecting/keeping whole the soul shards of her original creators so they can one day be completely reformed for some currently unknown final purpose? Note that It is implied that the original soul of the WoL are one of those creators, maybe even the driving force behind it.

[@haydarinna631]

@@daredaemon8878 If I'm remembering the correct line I interpreted it as "You are an inhabitant of the source except the source has been rejoined seven times" as opposed to "You have been rejoined seven times and also you are from the source". And I find it weird to assume the source being rejoined would imply that we would have rejoined.

[@techpriestemily]

So, the reason we are rejoined and not every buffalo and random Elezen, is because they don't *have* other selves to rejoin. They are born of the sundered worlds, while we were born of Amaurot.

[@haydarinna631]

@@techpriestemily I understand that things born after the sundering wouldn't have anything to rejoin, that is not my issue. I don't think that the sundered worlds rejoining would in any way imply that the already shattered souls of their inhabitants would also rejoin. The aether that made up the souls of the people who lived in the shard rejoined when the 7th umbral calamity happened might be in the source, but I see no reason to think they would rejoin with whatever soul in the source used to be another part of them.

[@Katfeathers]

Consider, what if light v dark, and active v passive turned out to not be linked; if light or dark could have passive or active aspects. What if at the same time astral or umbral could have light and dark aspects as well.

[@azil3117]

In a sense order vs chaos

[@pwnagraphic690]

I got a question. I may have missed it, but did they ever explain why Odin is cradling Minifillia in the art we got?

[@Sacchi_Hikaru]

That's just a representation of the warrior of darkness atop the collector's edition mount.

[@pwnagraphic690]

@@Sacchi_Hikaru I went back and looked. And you're right hahaa... It looks so much like Odin that I never second-guessed it. But it's clearly the DRK AF and the CE mount.

[@sweepingtime]

I think that people who live on the Source never really see the effects of too much light, except for periods in history where the Amdapori's magicks ran wild. But then that caused the end of their civilisation and did not bring destruction to most the world.

[@azadalamiq]

the war of the magi ended in a great flood, not of light but water due to the elementals getting pissy.

[@starshade7826]

@@azadalamiq According to modern aetherology, it was actually because both the Amdapori and the Mhachians ignored Water-aether in their magicks, thus leaving an excess of it. The Gridanians or their immediate predecessors simply assumed the elementals sent the flood as punishment and the elementals see no reason to correct the record since it gets them respect.

[@PrinceLettuce_4]

One of the things I'm the most confused about is "corruption". Time and again people describe the light as being corrupted, so I can only assume that all of these element based calamities are centered around there being too much of a corrupted element, and not just an overabundance of an element itself. My question is what even is corruption, and what causes it in the first place? Especially on such a huge scale.

[@alexestler8521]

PrinceLettuce I think it has to do with balance. The over abundance of light within us was corrupting us, as it did to all those before who turned. However, while fitting Emet, the light was spent fighting against the darkness. As Y'shtola puts it, “He was the Darkness to our Light”. Light itself isn’t bad, but so much of it in one place is harmful. It seems the world is meant to be in a balance of elements, and upsetting the scale too much causes calamity. I remember Alisaie explaining how normally one’s aether would not be corrupted (overwhelmed by light) when struck by an eater, but because of the sheer amount of light in our surroundings, they would turn. The abundance of light causes corruption (people become sin eaters), but the light itself is just light. Though now that I’m thinking about it, its worth noting the light still needed a way into the body. Though this may have been addressed already. I don’t remember the details of what exactly happens when struck by a sin eater. Does it plant a seed of light inside that grows from the surround light? Does it break some sort of protective barrier and allow a way for light to enter the body? I just find it intriguing that the existence of the light alone was not enough to turn people.

[@Salt_Mage]

The body naturally balances the aether inside of it by taking in the elements it lacks from the land and air around them. Like a body absorbing vitamins from sunlight. On the First, everything is suffused with Light, heavily Umbral leaning aether. So when infected by a Sin Eater, the body can't rebalance itself. All there is to absorb is more Umbral/Light energy, causing them to warp into a Sin Eater.

[@teeemotee]

I'm not so much convinced that one version is "correct" and the other wrong. In the end I don't see how it makes a difference, it's just two perspectives. I think knowing both enriches your viewpoint however.

[@dragoncurieux]

Not exactly. The people of the First are objectively right as their research on the poles (Astral and Umbral) have been through Dark and Light, and show that Light is still while Dark is active. What is subjective was the connection between Astral->Light and Umbral->Dark made by the people of the source which was not through research but through assumptions.

[@Domluna1]

So in the planet +1=-1. light is dark. But how light and dark are oppsite

[@rellethias]

What I really want is to develop a theory to explain why the Primals all seem to have personalities. They all reference Hydaelyn as the mother primal or mother crystal, giving her a godlike feel not just as people who worship her but also among the primals themselves. How does this work and why does it seem like the nature of primals isn't as clear as the characters would like you to think. IE, primals are implied to just be servants to the people who summoned them, nothing but the result of Ascian/Amouratine creation magic, sort of like programs or true npcs rather than actual people; but they don't act like it, at all. Hell, in 1.0 the ascians make a *deal* with ifrit, and since arr launched everyone of us see's Ifrit make the comment that we are already tempered (marked, claimed, whatever) by hydaelyn. Clearly not all primals are evil. Ramuh shows us that not every primal is even interested in expanding their domain (I've seen people make the argument that we shouldn't try to label primals as good or evil because they are neither, they are simply forces of nature). Clearly they aren't as simple as we think they are. Some of them are objectively more violent and more "evil" than others. These facts seem contradictory. It's difficult to claim that primals aren't distinct personalities who's motivations and intentions aren't entirely they own, even so far as to be regardless of the people who summoned them (since the ascians are the ones who first taught everyone how to summon and clearly they aren't all personalities of ascians or personalities that asicans feel very likely to even make) and are rather instead more forces of nature who's behaviors and seeming-personalities are results of the personalities of the people who summoned them.

[@Silverstreak3984]

Well the creation/summoning of the Primals is very very similar to the ancients creationist magic. If they're being created or summoned with that personality in mind would that not explaim their personalities?

[@momokol366]

I wonder what this means for Black Mages then?

[@momokol366]

Wait.. Astral Fire and Umbral Ice. ... What if knew all along and didn't realize it.

[@PrypeciowyHovnozer]

@@momokol366 It would make sense, if it was umbral crystal - fire also has very little direct relation to dark. IMO they pulled that shift of light/dark dichotomy way after they designed BLM.

[@endlessdreamhero4234]

why are Light and Darkness not elements like the other 6 as far as aether is concerned?

[@haydarinna631]

They are just in a different dimension in a way. For example something can be fire aspected as well as light or darkness at the same time.

[@Salt_Mage]

@False Feathers The video just went over this. Dark is composed of all elements. Light is the absence of elements. This will be elaborated on in Eden, which was described as how we're returning the elements to the Empty.

[@tuck295q]

Randomnaut except that too much darkness becomes void as well. Hence the 13th is useless.

[@haydarinna631]

@@Salt_Mage The video didn't say anything like that at all. He said that light and darkness are the polarities that elements can have.

[@mattg6106]

@@tuck295q I believe The Void is a bit of a misnomer. I don't believe it is an absence of space or matter but rather a star that is in a constant state of aetheric chaos, which would make a lot of sense with what we just learned about astral being static/ordered and umbral being active/chaotic. You could probably think about it similarly to the transfer of energy where astral aspected elements are in the 'potential' state and umbral aspected elements are in a 'chemical' state. Where we live (in-between) is this is sort of like the 'kinetic' space.

[@KurenaiOni]

Cheese

[@tuck295q]

I predict that Alien is the major cause that Ascian empire summon Zodiarc and they dont know that is the cause as well. What do you think? Lol

[@ronioksanen3183]

what going nier here or more like dragengard type of inter-dimensional alien making a mess

[@MKP2W]

Isnt your video about hydaelyn origins completely wrong now?

[@aerialdive]

yes

[@EthysAsher]

yup! update incoming lmao

[@MKP2W]

@@EthysAsher just post a screenshot of wide eyed zenos mentioning "even etc etc are our own constructs" over the whole video

[@Ladywizard]

except the revised even he admits hydaelyn would tell a different side since he's tempered to zodiark

[@starshade7826]

@@Ladywizard I am not convinced Zodiark or Hydaelyn actually tempered anyone. I think their philosophies were just zealotry from the get-go. Basically what I am getting at is: The echo makes you immune to tempering. *As demonstrated by Lahabrea and Igeyorhm, Ascians possess the Echo and are therefore immune to tempering.*

[@CalamitasDeus]

Perhaps both scholars in the Source and scholars in the First are correct, and these are simply two different points of view on the same evidence. For a real life example, evolutionists and creationists look at the same evidence, but the evolutionists claim it's evidence for their theory, while creationists claim it's actually evidence for their theory.

[@phodon129]

Except one of those sides follows the scientific method and the other should be shot.

[@melimeloni3369]

I'm sorry i just dont get it.. I watched it 3 Times already but i dont get it q.q pls explain it easier q.q

[@PrinceBrightstar]

One thing I don't get is Emet's want to gloat. Had he not done that, told us to go to the tempest, and instead pulled G'raha out of our reach, he would have won. He lost points from me as he had in his hands a way to go back in time, and after learning what he could have learned perhaps stopping everything that ever happened, perhaps outright preventing creation magic from ever becoming a thing on the pre-sundered world negating the need to even create Zodiark and losing 3/4ths of the world's population. Why feed a primal when you don't need a primal in the first place? It seems to me in the end rather than the story staying the course and creating something truly wonderful, instead it had to fall back on the trope of the hero winning in the end because of a stupid mistake and to keep the status quo of an MMO.

[@Mephiidross]

I assume part of the issue is that the Ascians are, by Emet's own words, already tempered by Zodiark and thus act in His interest. So going back pre-Calamity and undoing the summoning of Zodiark is not an option, as it would go against Zodiark's goals, whatever they are.

[@Kaligraphy22]

Well... he did admit that he, like others of his kind, were tempered by Zodiark. It wouldn't surprise me if he just thought that it would be fitting to screw us over utterly and completely for the glory and the in name of their blessed Primal. And along with his tendency to gloat, he wanted the WoL to be the one to cause the end of the First and thus trigger the next Calamity on the Source. He figured the WoL and company were out of choices and thought "Let me offer her/him a tiny morsel of mercy. They can turn into a Sin Eater down here and I can unleash him/her upon the First." Ascians like to go big or go home it seems. But also, he probably told them to go to the Tempest as well so they could finally understand through the shades of his lost people why he's doing what he's doing. 'Course they understood why he was doing this but that didn't stop WoL and company from going against him. And as far as I could tell, Emet could not sense Ardbert's presence. If he had known the spirit of the First's WoL was lingering around, I don't think he would have hesitated to erase him before the WoL(s) could do anything. When the WoL passed out before the final battle, it was Ardbert that brought them back from the brink. Sorry I rambled a bit but that's just my two cents.

[@Wariyaka]

At this point I don't think there is no real evidence for the idea that Emet Selch could use the Crystal Tower to go back in time in the manner you suggest. We have almost no knowledge about how far the workings of the Crystal Tower can reach and how much power is still left in it. It is fully plausible that close to all aether stored in the tower was spent with the trip to the First and that it would need hundreds of years before anything could be attempted again. Also there could be restrictions to how far the Crystal Tower could move in time through the rift. Maybe is it, for example, impossible for it go further back then the time of its own creation. In short we have no idea as to what the actual limitations of what this time travel device are and it's fully plausible that even with full knowledge of the devise's workings Emet Selch might not be able to do much within any reasonable timespan.

[@Wariyaka]

@@eW91dHViZSBpcyBjZW5zb3JzaGlw Eh no I'm not. I'm actually looking at what have actually been presented while people like you make baseless assumption about shit never stated.

[@tbyhmes1184]

I feel that the theory of the warrior of light rings true. Since after you beat thordan, he too sees the wol in a different kind of dark. =\

[@SkiaSymphonia]

Does this make what we knew before wrong, or is this just another way of looking at things? Just because it is newer doesn't necessarily mean it is definitive truth, right?

[@alexestler8521]

I don’t even... Its too much

[@alexestler8521]

I need a few things cleared up. How do souls work? I’m confused. So all the ppls running around all the shards and source have 1/14 (is it different for the source bc the rejoinings?) of a soul of someone from the original world??? And what are the requirements to be an Ascian again? Bc Emet apparently can just recreate Ascians who die with a shard of their souls from somewhere else? So what...

[@GrumpyCunt]

warrior of light was an ascian

[@naraigami]

ace

[@miricobladetail9670]

I think shadow bringers just muddies the waters a bit. Before we are lead to believe that Light = good and Dark = bad and that was never really the case. What is important is balance. On a personal note I think Emet was bending the truth a little bit. I think he and the other Ascians summoned Zodiark and Zodiark was the first calamity he spoke of. While Hydaelyn was summoned to stop Zodiark or that Hydaelyn was the one summoned to advert the calamity and the Ascians summoned Zodiark because they didn't like Hydaelyn. I could be wrong, but I don't think the people that are willing to hide in corpses and commit mass genocide to bring back their god are above lying.

[@azadalamiq]

their thralls of primals and do anything for their true god. they are from a time where the world was whole and 1 races existed. they see the source and 13 shards and separate races as inferior. as we are not fully whole. Pretty much the acians lived in the garden of edan and wrre perfect being, thier world was gonna super nova so they summoned a god to stop it.

[@miricobladetail9670]

@@azadalamiq Yeah so Emet says and that's all we have to go on. Like I said I don't personally trust a guy who is willing to commit mass genocide, hide in corpses and oh yeah tried to turn the main character into a light monster to further his own plans. I don't think someone who is willing to do those things is above twisting the truth about some cave paintings.

[@alexestler8521]

Mirico Bladetail I honestly don’t know what to believe. Its not like we can look to the phantoms of Amurot for some proof, they’re constructs of Emet. All we have is a few cave paintings and what he’s telling us. It doesn’t seem like he’s lied, there’s nothing showing it to be implausible. Yet, as you saw, he’s a bringing of chaos who’s done much worse than lie. Besides, if Hydalen and Zodiark are both primals, then technically wouldn’t we be tempered? Surely they’re at least not primals in the traditional sense, as we know them. Otherwise our previous interactions with Hyadalen would have gone differently. Then again, what do we understand about Amurot and her people’s creation magic and how that would effect summoning?

[@miricobladetail9670]

@@alexestler8521 It may not even be a straight up lie. It could be his version of events. He could be being manipulated by Elidibus (the reason I say that is he's the only one with a white robe so I think that puts him in charge). We may be tempered by Hydaelyn which would make sense because we can't be tempered by other primals or at least primals inferior to Hydaelyn. I realize that what I'm saying is just theory crafting and I could be totally off, but I don't completely trust what Emet said. We'll just have to wait and see what the writers come up with. :D

[@Silverstreak3984]

To be fair every mythical or hi fantasy world starts with like light is good and dark is evil then flips it when light gets too much control. Even wow is somewhat in the middle of the same situation.

[@meaninglez100]

I hate this because actual light IS active while darkness is literally nothing. If we called it The White and The Black, it probably wouldn't bother me so much

[@meaninglez100]

@Kerry vans Konsol I meant it in a literal sense. Light itself is energy. An electromagnetic radiation. Darkness is simply its absence. It has no presence, because it's just a term to describe what isn't there. But regardless, I've sense cooled on the notion. I was really just nit-picking the lore instead of respecting the game on its own terms

[@Uruduin]

can you and Byf team up and make the uber lore team?

[@thenotreallyfunnyguy]

But what does this mean? How is the terminology important in any way?

[@Silverstreak3984]

It's important In that source scholars are assuming the different "poles" do the opposite of what they actually do. Imagine trying to send a rocket to the Moon and using reaction that is opposite of what it's supposed to do.

[@tuck295q]

Lol lore bombs :p