FFXIV Shadowbringers Monk Changes! (development footage)

Ask anything down below and I'll try to answer to the best of my ability.
This video is sponsored by Square Enix.

[@FiendMatadorSlayerOfNoobs]

Larry, Tate AND Drak all flooding my feed with Shadowbringer class previews? *IT'S LIKE ALL MY NAMEDAYS HAVE COME AT ONCE!* I am looking forward to these changes. I may not be a good Monk but I really love the class and this is making me love it even more.

[@coreybuffum3195]

And no loading errors to go along with it this time!

[@TheZenGrenadier]

Drak: Anatman is an amazing ability! I'll finally get to keep my stacks during downtime and phase switches! *RESCUE WANTS TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION

[@DrakGamestein]

TheZenGrenadier wait, stop no!

[@UltimaGuardianStatyx]

@@DrakGamestein I hear froggy, croaking laughter in the distance already.

[@davekaye5483]

Sadly Anatman is useless for this. Can only be used while you're in combat, doesn't max out your duration if you're already at 4 stacks, and there's no phase change so long aside from o10s where you couldn't just use SSS or RoE instead. The final boss has a phase change so long, Anatman will drop anyway and you will lose your stacks regardless. It looks cool but has no practical use.

[@Coramelimane]

I see Monk, I hear drak and I know love.

[@SpaceDrake]

Pour one out for our fallen abilities. Rip to Howling Fist.

[@DrakGamestein]

It still hurts... and our internal release. *schmoozes on over to Rhaya's DNC*

[@OrpheusAristo]

@@DrakGamestein Ah, that's why we have Deep Meditation, they felt bad after taking our Internal Release away xD

[@Cizal]

@@OrpheusAristo we already had deep meditation back in stormblood. this buff is a small bandaid over the titanic hole opened up by the removal of internal release. it's gonna mean less chakra gained overall, not more.

[@Royblazer]

Honestly I feel like they could have reworked Howling Fist into Enlightenment. Still a line hit, and much cooler attack name than Enlightenment!

[@headache42]

@@OrpheusAristo Yeah but Deep Meditation is only good on critical hits in the first place, which Internal Release helped with.

[@dazzlemasseur]

Greased lightning is now a trait. Tornado kick does not spend stack so acts as a regular ogcd. Riddle of earth has 3 stacks but now last only 6 second. Deep meditation ALWAYS give you a meditation stack upon hitting a crit with a weapon skills.

[@dazzlemasseur]

Now playing monk hurts my fingers.

[@tigerlilley]

Lmao One Ilm Punch gets left out of the RIP list. Literally no one has noticed that skill for 6 years.

[@DrakGamestein]

Isn't that an anime? :^)

[@tigerlilley]

@@DrakGamestein haha yeah, you know, I think I've heard of that.

[@seasluggy]

Lol ive mained monk since ive first started playing 2 years ago and it wasnt on my hotbar till a few days ago cause i didnt even notice it before

[@brotleibinger]

I got used to interrupt rather than walking out of aoe. Especially in Heaven-on-High, as Mobs usually die so fast, the damage buff isn't worth as much. And it's gold for the Chimera Trial.

[@RatchildUK]

I freaking love the new AF gear. It mixes the best aspects of AF1 and 3 into an awesome looking set.

[@Talynn_Black]

At the rotation part I got a reminder of JOHN FUCKING MADDEN

[@ArekDotharl]

My honest guess is that Six-sided Star is just to help us refresh Greased Lightning after the smaller phase transitions, to use right before the boss disappears to quick refresh greased lightning to hold the timer at cap, or refresh GL on trash pulls in dungeon. You know those moments where you try saving Greased Lightning by getting a Demolish or Snap punch off quick enough, but you were just half a second too slow and lost your stacks? That'd be my honest guess regarding it.

[@BradleyAidanJohnson]

I agree 100%, that couple frames difference between holding stacks by hitting a snap or not and losing them is near impossible to predict, this is now an "any time you like snap punch"

[@Fain255]

Damn I'm gonna miss Howling Fist's animation >:

[@cantthinkofaname1029]

Feels like they're more concerned with downtime management rather than actual rotation evolution for this job...again. It's my biggest gripe with it and why I'm super sad they aren't replacing the TK rotation with anything; it feels like they're just stepping it back to the same basic ABC 123 while giving us yet more downtime tools when we were actually doing fairly alright in that department already. What are they trying to fix? I just don't feel like they know what's fun about the job -- 4 GL stacks is gonna be fun, but without anything else to layer it with it's going to get very samey very fast, in the same way it's been since 2.x

[@Iwinfiltrator]

they cant really overhaul MNK because it has a perfect rotation already, what is there to change? there is no reason to fix something that isent broken just give it quality of life improvements and add some new abilities which they did with SSS and anatman + GL4, most of the diehard MNK players dont want it to change much which is why the dev team dont overhaul it, most jobs still play very much the same as they did in ARR and HW so its not just a MNK thing

[@Cizal]

@@Iwinfiltrator the devs have gone on record saying they went out of their way to rework monk. and they did. they killed the most interesting thing to ever happen to it in favor of literal faceroll level shit. we have 6 buttons dedicated to us keeping our stacks now, i think we're fucking ok in that department.

[@SimbaKillzZ]

@@Iwinfiltrator they literally killed the tk rotation, stripped ogcds while retaining the riddle of fire 15% slow and lowered the job skill ceiling down. They then added more downtime skills for maintenance, when we really didn't need anymore, and also increased the CD of pb. Enlightenment is cool but it's literally replacing howling fist with a resource spender. You're literally pressing 6 gcds or 3-4 in aoe situations while weaving 3 offensive ogcds at most plus the buffs and stances. There is no reason to lose fist of wind after gl4 either, it's just a static shift and you stay there until the fight ends. Its novelty of speed is still dampened by riddle of fire and so you have the equivalence of gl1 stack with very little to weave for several gcds . This is obviously a simplification of the job. New monk players literally dont weave anything interesting outside of shoulder tackle for 54 levels until elixir field, its gcd rotation is more static then dragoon now(no wind tackle to allow for snapshotting buffs to demolish earlier)and arguably dumber.The risk of the job is gone, the sense of speed wont matter if you're slowing yourself down, the skills they've added are maintenance to an already reduced rotation. They've reduced tk to a situational skill again. And you're ok with all of this apparently. I'm glad this is all subject to change because this is definitely not the direction, this is less engaging.

[@davekaye5483]

@@SimbaKillzZ Yeah I agree. I think a big part of the problem is they thought simplifying it down would make it easier to get into, but the thing is, the people who thought it was boring and/or intimidating to play don't know how to use it properly to begin with, because the game is a terrible teacher and doesn't introduce players properly into how to use their jobs. The job quests do jack shit to mentor you, so when you get players who are in 4.x endgame and still don't know what a stack marker is, these players definitely don't understand what double-weaving is or how to do it comfortably. So this actually lowers the skill ceiling without raising the skill floor. Black Mage has the same issue, but with a different impact. Players who don't know how to use BLM think it's slow, and a stationary turret. They're absolutely wrong on both parts, but the footage from the Live Letter does jack shit to show off how exciting it can look. The BLM mains now have things cranked to Easy Mode with the new tools, so they're giddy about the lowering of the skill ceiling, but anyone who didn't already understand how to use it won't have any easier a time getting into it. These were literally the opposite fixes than what they should have made. If they wanted to ease players into jobs or higher-level content without it feeling so intimidating, they should provide a better structure for how the game teaches these things, like how some other MMORPGs do it, so by the time everyone gets to the end game, there's a stronger baseline of performance expectation even among casual players, and leave the "bick dick damage" DPS openers to the min-maxers and theory-crafters. Instead this just punishes the players who enjoyed the fluidity of jobs like MNK and mained it for that reason. Also, it's really, REALLY not my fault that people who have pings of 200 are playing this game and can't get into the more demanding action-oriented jobs. If people can't afford better internet I shouldn't be punished for it. People with absurd pings either need to play on a server more local to them or invest in better internet instead of insisting on ruining the online gaming world for everyone else who has a decent connection. I'm starting to get the thought that this was part of the reason for the changes, to appease Chinese players, but North Americans dominate the FFXIV gamer population by a longshot. If connection issues were hurting players in China and Australia from playing jobs which required a high ping, I would have preferred SE invest in the Oceania server Aussies have been begging for instead of dumbing down the job skill ceiling so players with high ping don't feel bad for being disadvantaged.

[@appetizingly]

Man, I really wish I could have already played and perfected ShB Monk like all the people in the comment section, saying stuff like "ShB Monk has a lower skill ceiling" or that it now has "faceroll gameplay" just because they killed TK. Admittedly, I'm not too thrilled about them pushing out TK again since it was really fun to use, but I still have no idea what kind of opener and/or rotation will be optimal in ShB or how exactly Six-sided Star will play into all of it. Anyway, thanks for the video Drak!

[@DrakGamestein]

I didn't honestly like SB monk but not because of how it played, necessarily. I made a whole vid on that, but for ShB we really have to wait an see. Like I put in the vid, we didn't get training dummies or max level bosses (I totally missed out on doing that hunt with people), so how simple or difficult it is has yet to be seen. It definitely seems more straight forward, but we could also find something crazy with it in the future once the expac launches and we see what changes are made leading up to raid releases.

[@HEYBUDDYMAN86]

Only thing I'd like to correct is that buffs in FFXIV are multiplicative. while GL4 is 40%, it's not 30%+10% (unless they change this in SHB). The damage buffs are more like 40% vs 30% times 10%. or, to make it easier for people who don't know how this works, 1.30 x 1.10. So that's less akin to 40% and more akin to 43%. Other than that, I think I agree. I think the skill speed and increase of apm will likely trump the 3% increase given Shadowbringers decrease in damage increasing synergy.

[@DrakGamestein]

See, this is why I didn't attempt theory-crafting lmao. I'd get corrected all day. Not that it's a bad thing, we need proper information when I can't give it. But I also can't confirm how the calculations work. I was under the assumption the bonuses were accumulative, not multiplied so I didn't bother to check.

[@HEYBUDDYMAN86]

@@DrakGamestein I'm not a theory crafter either. This is just pure speculation from what I know. But I agree with a lot of what you've said based off of what we know of the job!

[@RiketheDangerleo]

@@HEYBUDDYMAN86 I'm pretty sure you're thinking of GL3 plus fist of Fire, that is multiplicative, however individual stacks of the same buff are additive. So GL4 is 40%, and GL3 plus for is 36.5%

[@HEYBUDDYMAN86]

Sage Dragoon Where are you getting .36? No matter what I do with a calculator I can’t get that. The number you’re coming up with is more like you are calculating tank cooldowns (which btw have the inverse and as someone who used to play tank and talk to some pretty high level players is how I know this stuff, because I used to be told that damage is multiplying and defensive cooldowns are dividing, which is why you don’t stack defensive cooldowns). I think you misunderstood how multiplying damage works. When multiplying you need to have 1 before the decimals or it ends up being wrong and being a loss. Multiplicative damage is why Machinist as it stands right now is so powerful (and evenmoreso in Heavensward). A Machinist with all the buffs gets like 200% damage buffed or more inside Wildfire. Also, I am not accounting each stack as an individual buff. I even showed my math was just 1.3 (GL3) and 1.1 (FoF). Please read my post again.

[@RiketheDangerleo]

@@HEYBUDDYMAN86 I accidentally typed for instead of FoF (fist of fire) GL3 would be a 30% and FoF is a 5%, since they are individual multipliers they would combine to be 36.5%. Edit: for clarity regardless of if my math was off or not, GL 4 is a gain even before accounting for the extra GCDs gain from the skill speed Edit edit: Also dawg all I literally did was multiply 1.3(GL3) by 1.05(FoF), what do you mean no matter what you do with a calculator u can't get that number?

[@hyperyeen6830]

That's some good Hrothgar animations too. Oh and monk damage is looking GREAT

[@DrakGamestein]

I was really not expecting myself to enjoy Ronso on MNK but... it felt so right.

[@Voidsent_]

More better with bare fist glamour

[@eric8642004]

Hey! Larry said to see you!

[@VideogamesPang]

I have a question: If you are in GL4 and use Tornado Kick, do you still lose ALL your stacks, or do you maybe keep one? Anyway, here's my comments on the new skills and your theories: 1. Six-Sided Star is mostly likely intended as a way to get some extra damage in during parts where you are forced to move away from the boss for a few seconds, such as when they do a circle-AoE. 2. Six-Sided Star is likely to be a DPS increase when used at the end of Riddle of Fire, but not at the start. If you can simply hit your oGCDs between actions, there's no need for an extra-long GCD period to mash them all. However at the end of RoF, you are losing both your RoF stacks AND your GL stacks due to Tornado Kick, so Six-Sided Star now becomes more valuable than your next two weaponskills. My theory is that once Riddle of Fire has less than 3 seconds remaining in its duration, you will perform your final weaponskill, use Six-Sided Star, use Tornado Kick, shift to Fists of Fire (because you're now at 0 stacks and therefore it's better than Fists of Wind), use Perfect Balance, and by this point your GCD is back and you can rebuild your stacks. 3. I strongly doubt that Anatman will be a DPS increase to use rotationally. The time spent not using weaponskills is MASSIVE and not going to be made up for by getting your stacks faster. 4. Perfect Balance's cooldown was increased to 120s, meaning the Tornado Kick rotation can only be used, at most, every OTHER Riddle of Fire, i.e. every 3 minutes. 5. Enlightenment as a chakra-spending AoE is nice, but we lose Howling Fist too, so I do not feel as though we have gained much. Enlightenment is essentially the exact same skill but with a chakra cost instead of a cooldown. We lose single-target buttons in exchange for an AoE button. 6. I have no idea why they kept Fists of Earth and Riddle of Earth now that we have Anatman. Couldn't we have just kept Internal Release and Howling Fist instead? In my personal opinion, the changes to Monk are very disappointing. There are a few nice things, but we lost quite a bit, and the rotation has been simplified A LOT and now seems much less active and engaging. Not only this, but we are still routinely forced to slow down and dump all our speed due to Riddle of Fire and Tornado Kick, which was one of the bigger complaints about Monk in Stormblood.

[@joanjorge566]

Yeah you lose all of them

[@Cizal]

wait they increased pb's cooldown too? jesus i didn't even see that what the hell.

[@DrakGamestein]

A fair assessment. I’ll be honest, I’m not thrilled with these changes for a lot of the same reasons, though I’m willing to give it a shot. Like I said in my interview vid, I feel they’re underestimating the playerbase by thinking we can’t handle higher GCDs, but it does seem like they really tried so I’m gonna give it a shot. In Larryzaur’s interview they said they had to completely rework how they thought of monk in an attempt to make it more interesting. Most of you already know what changes I wanted, so this falls a bit short. In any case, we’ll see what the future brings and, if nothing else, play SAM or even the new MCH :P

[@joanjorge566]

DrakGamestein but they can’t punch their enemies thats why I love monk

[@Cizal]

@@DrakGamestein to me that just sounds like they either didn't know or totally ignored tornado kick rotation actually breathing some damn life into the job. because they killed it dead to focus on... go the fastest? except for when you stop dead via SSS or anatman, or good old RoF slow still being a thing. it's a goddamn mess. it has no identity outside of being the punch class anymore.

[@kitsunehanyou09]

Wait so we're losing howling fist?! First dancing edge for ninjas now this?! Noooo!! Real talk though, i'm so excited to try this out! Still, I wish they buff the range on enlightenment, and do we still get a movement speed increase?

[@Serxne_]

I think 3 stacks and Riddle will be the opening section for a potion with the fourth stack being the closing window for potions.

[@Chaser547]

I like these changes to be honest...new toys to play with and a way to be faster and still put out good damage thank you Square and thank you Drak for giving a monk players perspective on it which helps me as a monk main understand it best.

[@3ureka]

@DrakGamestein (but to any monks, really) I recently watched your "How I feel about Stormblood Monk" video and came here to ask what your thoughts were on Deep Meditation I (and now II). Like you, I mained monk since I first got into XIV (mid-HW) and felt especially attached to the class. I fell in love with so many aspects of the game (particularly crafting/gathering), but I thought that the changes that were made to Monk (on top of my other usual classes MCH and DRK) in Stormblood were too much, so I left around the time Omega was first released. For me, the biggest pain point was the concept of Deep Meditation and the double rng-gating of chakra generation (for the life of me, I couldn't understand why they did that). Was this ever a concern for you? How did Deep Meditation II feel in Shadow Bringers? Watching all this ShB content makes me want to come back, but I'm not sure I can get over Deep Meditation. Thanks for your time! (And please, all the other monks out there, let me know what you think!)

[@DrakGamestein]

Deep Meditation was a good thing for me because it was a step in the right direction. We'd normally have to wait for fight down-time to even THINK about getting Forbidden Chakra, so the fact that it was possible to get more during the fight was nice. Brotherhood is what made it really viable, though, even if they ended up gutting FC's potency as a result. In any case, Deep Meditation II is more or less just a way for them to offset the removal of Internal Release, though it does have the potential to make chakra gain more consistent over the span of the fight. We'll see. I also understand where you're coming from with the RNG on RNG, but at the very lease we have bootshine which guarantees at least one crit... of six weaponskills lol. Honestly, I'm still just sad Chakra didn't get a proper gauge yet again, but it sounds like they had to start from the ground up with just how MNK played in general for ShB. Maybe next time.

[@3ureka]

@@DrakGamestein Ahh. I didn't think about it that way before. Even though the chakra generation is gated behind double RNG, at least it's *some*thing. Also, I really liked your ideas in the "How I feel about SB Monk" (especially the aura); I guess I was too greedy for weaponskills (lol) to consider consuming chakra for a buff, which would be awesome. Still on the fence about whether or not I should come back, but I appreciate your reply! Thanks for letting me pick your brain :)

[@Its_an_Eze]

I agree with Drak on the meditation. I can't tell how happy I would be to get forbidden chakra to full in raids and such and use it back to back to back. I think my highest count was 6 or 7 . But to the shb changes it's gonna definitely be a major relearning in a way. But I think overtime there will be a new groove learned for monk that might be just as good as if not better than tk rotation.

[@OrpheusAristo]

So as a monk main living with anxiety for the past week waiting on this lift. I can say I'm in love with all of these changes One question though, the way Six-sided Star is worded...Can it put you at max stacks from 0, or just refresh the timer, it already seems like the "anti-TK"

[@DrakGamestein]

Just refresh the timer, and pretty much lol

[@left4deadpwnage]

I don't understand why they doubled PB's cooldown AND removed Riddle of wind's stack generation, Anatman simply doesn't make up for it.

[@davekaye5483]

Yeah Anatman is worthless. Way oversold. Would rather have an oGCD to use in combat to get a stack of GL back.

[@mismismism]

Honestly, I think what's gonna make Monk crazy is the combo with Dancer, like you appear to hit a lot already, then you add the buff from Dancer and just feed them esprit for their crazy high potency skill. On paper, those 2 sound like they go together even better than Bard and Dragoon do now.

[@raindrain1]

Well, since Bard lost its crit synergy, Monk becoming DNC's Dance Partner might actually be pretty optimal given Sabre Dance's huge crit buff. But it depends on how much rDPS either or both of them can bring on release. Monk had synergy with SCH in Stormblood too, but nobody really brought a Monk period so it didn't matter.

[@ZephWraen]

Honestly want to main (or at least level first) a MNK for the first time. I leveled it to 60 in HW, but didn't play it much at cap. Didn't touch it at all during SB. But the Shadowbringers (what abbreviation are we using? Can't use SB again) changes have me super hyped. It's the job that interests me the most now!

[@Cizal]

you missed out on the most interesting monk has ever been by not playing it in the latter half of sb. just play some other melee in sb2 they're all gonna be more interesting, even if only just.

[@ZephWraen]

@@Cizal Yeah, I meant to level my MNK to 70, but just never got around to it. The BRD rework from HW to SB took most of my attention at the start of the xpac, and then I spent a ton of time as a WHM, then a PLD, then a SMN (I have all the tanks and healers as well as a few DPS at 70 at this point, but MNK from HW to SB didn't seem too much different compared to other jobs that saw major changes, so I wanted to experience the bigger changes more). I'm spending this time pre-expac playing catch up and trying to get a few more jobs to 70 before the launch. I definitely think I'll start the xpac maining MNK, though I might level WAR first just for easy queues (I did the same at the launch of SB, leveled WAR through story, then quickly got BRD up and mained BRD). I don't play much melee dps, but honestly with the exception of SAM all of them in Shadowbringers have piqued my interest.

[@ygorbibiano558]

OOOhh boye!!! Finnaly here!! Thanks a lot!

[@ElPsiCongroo]

Fist of Fire and GL3 has higher damage than GL4 because percent damage increases are multiplicative (1.3 * 1.1 = 1.43 vs 1.4). The difference doesn't seem huge, but it just increases with the more buffs you stack up. GL4 is probably still stronger in normal situations because of the lower GCD. But what I'm curious about is the possibility of using, at the end of Riddle of Fire with Fire Fists, Six Sided Star, Tornado Kick, Perfect Balance, then get back GL4. Tornado Kick has never been optimal if you can maintain your stacks, but maybe with the damage increase in SSS it'll be worth it.

[@DrakGamestein]

TK was objectively optimal this last patch cycle because you could get your stacks back so quickly. Since we no longer have those methods, it will probably fall off again to the wayside. Old RoW and PB on a 60s cd were bandaids, but lead to a very active playstyle. We'll just have to see.

[@turnipkupo7263]

Gonna be so much fun! Time to play a DPS again in addition to tanking

[@LadyFrostbite]

I feel like that FoF's 10% vs FoW's 4th GL is to give people with lag issues a better shot at being viable in comparison

[@brokenserenity01]

hopefully it'll help folks who play on servers outside their actual global location a little bit too...though Se not putting dumb stats on gear would also help alot too lol

[@Iwinfiltrator]

i just thought of some cool ways to use Six sided star, whenever the boss is about to use a circle aoe around him that is the perfect time to use SSS, use it right before running out of the aoe circle, its like a tornado kick but without losing your stacks, also good for if you setting up anatman when boss is jumping, also if u really gotta burst something hard you can SSS into FC+TK at 1% of a bosses health or something and do some crazy burst even crazier if you do it during ROF

[@Cizal]

those aren't "cool" ways to use SSS, those are the only ways to use it lmao. and it's not even that good at some of those. bootshine with leaden fist and refreshing a nearly empty demolish are both more damage than SSS is lmfao, so some of the time it'll still be worse than one of the buttons we've had for 6 years. and they can't buff it much or else it starts becoming a viable part of the regular rotation, which will make monk even worse to play.

[@ErosionXperment]

Seems like our 72 trait is going to waste sadly, since we're going to want to be in FoW for GL4. Could have used that slot for something more unique. LIKE SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY OUR HOWLING FIST, NOOOO~!

[@Cizal]

it's amazing that they looked at the initial reaction to tackle mastery back on SB release and thought, how we can make something even more pointless?

[@Nyghtrade]

Although I'm sad for the removals, I am pretty please with what's coming to. :)

[@khalamari]

This made me a little less worried about my main class, but I still feel like Anatman is just going to feel bad in fights.

[@lunausagi8495]

I never really understand the concept of "main" job. There's so many diverse jobs to choose, why arbitrarily limits your gaming experience by sticking dead stuck to one thing and never learn anything new? In my opinion, it's a pretty weak mindset.

[@TheLastSavior10]

Hey Drak with the no TP changes wouldn't that make skill speed become a bit more viable on monk due to the fact that you no longer have to worry about needing a goad halfway through a dps check.

[@DrakGamestein]

It depends on Crit/Direct Hit scaling vs base potency with SS in ShB. But with more % going towards SS with GL4, maybe. Fingers crossed.

[@mattsullivan2458]

Fists of Fire is currently 6% increased damage, not 5%. A 4% increase is still a welcome change though, especially with blunt resist down gone!

[@Sanodi21]

It feels like a lost opportunity to not call it Aura Bolt considering MCH has stuff like the Air Anchor and Auto Crossbow

[@smward87]

It's to keep it in line with the whole chakra theme. Forbidden Chakra could have easily been called Rising Dragon Punch or something, but since it's an attack that results from aligning your 5 chakras, which was previously thought to be "forbidden" or impossible, then well they called it Forbidden Chakra. To keep up with theme the new move is Enlightenment.

[@ULTIMATEGOOSE01]

Good point

[@spof465]

Big thing is that anatman DOES build stacks at 0, it just doesn't build stacks while out of combat.

[@kindridskylar7786]

Actually you can. You have to be in combat for anatman to build the stacks from 0

[@petalmagic8391]

the excitement in Drak's voice right now...

[@midorixiv]

press F for the TK rotation

[@Shadeslayerbros]

So I'm guessing double TK is 100% dead? Sad that we're going back to HW's rotation but faster.

[@Cizal]

not even that, because touch of death and fracture are still gone. this actually would've been a good time to bring those back so there could at least be a little something to the rotation, but they opted to make it as braindead as possible instead.

[@NicoleChangHarp]

All the changes being made to Monk this expac really feels like it's making up for the Stormblood changes... and adding on something new! And I guess the skill spd/tp drainage issue won't be as much a thing any more XD Gonna miss Howling Fist though. Really cool to see all this stuff and get your perspective on it Drak!

[@Cizal]

stormblood added the admittedly minor complexity of building chakras midfight so you can use TFC more often. that was a tangible improvement to the job. nothing they've added here is the same, it's either just bandaids, things every other class is getting, or plain bad design. our level 72 trait is meaningless because we're hardly ever going to want to be in fists of fire. and if it isn't, get ready for all the fun of TK rotation stance switching, but more often, and with infinitely less payoff.

[@ygorbibiano558]

I was thinking. If they kept howling fist, and them in the lvl 74 with a trait, it evolved in enlightnment. Thia could be good, to not lose one skill in lower lvls.

[@Cizal]

problem is enlightenment fundamentally changes how the ability functions. howling fist is an ogcd on a 60 second cooldown that is used in single target while also hitting aoe. enlightenment is mutually exclusive with forbidden chakra, meaning you will never touch it in a single target rotation. they could've just kept howling fist entirely, but they didn't for some nonsense reason, so now we're left with this joke of an ability that pretends to be a ranged attack but is actually just reanimated howling fist made worse.

[@ygorbibiano558]

@@Cizal yeah.. Enlightnment should be gained at a lower lvl. Missed a skill like this a lot in lvl 60 and 70 dungeons.

[@Hatttetttt]

It's lovely!

[@LeonisHD]

Silly question, but, I assume you didn't go over Fists of Earth because they didn't change at all and don't affect the Greased Lightning stacks whatsoever?

[@DrakGamestein]

Fists of earth is the same iirc. I did mention that Riddle of Earth does the same thing though, and I did check that one.

[@LeonisHD]

@@DrakGamestein My bad. I might have misheard it. Thanks for the reply though!

[@brokenserenity01]

Some fun stuff added and a couple things removed that im unsure they really needed to remove...so about the standard for most jobs really...thanks for the vid drak you helped a fellow monk out alot with this info

[@dasanking1181]

Does this mean you're going back to monk or will you stay as a samurai or are you wait to see what the new limit break look like to help you decide. Bec I'm thinking about going back to monk for my main dps.

[@DrakGamestein]

I'm sticking with SAM, but going BLM for raids. I just can't get over RoF. It's weird because, unlike other jobs, it slows you down only for your burst while others are slow then speed up. So technically it's faster more often, but it just feels off when it comes to the burst phase for me. I also don't think they really know what to do with MNK in general, but whatever demographic they're listening to, it's one I'm not in. Just gotta bow out this time around.

[@boringfactor8792]

I'm not really digging this changes, they killed TK rotation so feels like now monk is gonna be do opener and then just 123 456 and watch some tv

[@DrakGamestein]

The TK rotation was interesting, but only a byproduct of them trying to make RoW relevant and overshooting. I will honestly miss it, but I think there's more to be had with ShB monk. so we'll see.

[@baelaurent]

This comment made me laugh so hard bc its true and I also agree. I LOVE double TK rotation monk, it makes the rotation super fun to do like the old "use-TK-before-the-boss-disappears method" rotation was boring to me.

[@SpaceTiger90]

Do you have a link or something to a complete rotation as of now since shadowbringer is out?? I'm trying monk out and I still feel confused on how to do my rotations

[@KalinaHitanaVTuber]

As a Monk main, I'm going to have a lot of concerns =/ Losing out on Internal Release and Howling Fist is going to be a major blow, as well as TK rotation. That and I feel like the new skills we get, while cool, I'm not completely sold on them being adequate replacements. And while I am happy about the overall buff to damage, it's still overall making me very concerned for my overall ability to play. Because it wasn't hard enough to get into content with people...

[@squidfishie]

Drak did you test anatman at 0 stacks while in combat? in the video you're out of combat but im curious as to if you can build them while in combat.

[@DrakGamestein]

So this is something I actually didn't get footage of and I don't remember if I actually tried it. I want to say it doesn't, but I can't confirm it officially atm =/ Def my b there.

[@IceAokiji303]

The loss of IR will be... interesting. Sounds like a flat nerf to chakra generation.

[@Fain255]

At least now the trait Deep Meditation gives us a 70% chance of opening a Chakra upon landing a critical hit instead of 50%

[@DrakGamestein]

We do have the addition of DNC with partner buffs, tho, so at the very least that will make up for it while not making MNK busted. But I'm still not happy we lost it lol

[@Iwinfiltrator]

@@Fain255 yes, Deep Meditation 2 will be more chakra overtime than IR by far, every bootshine crit will be almost a guaranteed chakra

[@Cizal]

@@Iwinfiltrator it works out to at the very best, roughly the same, except that you no longer have periods of increased chakra gain associated with pressing IR. which would have worked extremely well alongside making TFC only have a 1 second cooldown, but i guess that would be too fun or something.

[@shadowmaster4295]

Love you monk

[@justingraham8969]

No more Tp, can monk and arrow finally become friends🤔

[@dootdootington386]

Arrow is just a shit balance for monks now. But a good balance for ranged. All cards do 3-6% damage up, depending on class, if what i saw last was correct.

[@Cizal]

unfortunately they also killed the souls of the cards, so they're all copies of each other, but some are for ranged and some are for melee. all just a small 6% damage buff. or 8% with minor arcana stuff.

[@choccyg4035]

Six sided star could also be use for right before a boss jumps?

[@cnote181]

which makes tornado kick useless, and even if we did TK before down time it makes anatman useless since you need at least 1 stack to start charging up your stacks

[@brotleibinger]

So, FoF until three stacks of GL, then switch to FoW? I'm gonna take the faster GCD over slightly more damage anytime. As of now my main problem is no skill to push at times 'cause everything is on cooldown. Might change with the new skills though. And does Riddle of Earth still puts us in Fists of Earth? Cause I use that a lot during unavoidable damage.

[@jkdavisable]

Well it’s 10% damaged (dam) and 5% increased attack speed (ias) per stack of greased lighting. So at GL 3 it’s 30%dam and 15%ias with another 10% dam from FoF putting you at 40% dam. FoW GL4 will put you at 40% dam and 20% ias. So the FoW GL4 will out damage FoF GL3 due to the extra 5%ias. No, riddle of fire and earth don’t change your fist stance anymore. You can be in FoW with GL4 while in your riddle of fire.

[@brotleibinger]

@@jkdavisable Not exactly what I asked but thanks =)

[@lanteanboy]

QUESTION: How happy are you with these changes on a scale of 1-10 where 1 is: it feels as trash as in Stormblood and 10 being: OMG, THIS IS SO AMAZING!!

[@DrakGamestein]

I'm about an 8. It'll be hard to say since MNK is a job that you need 2-3 minutes in a fight to really tell how the flow is, and the only time we got that was in a dungeon where we were synced to 74 so... but the changes are in the right direction imo!

[@Cizal]

if you thought monk was trash in stormblood after they changed wind tackle and made tornado kick rotation a viable thing please keep playing this job now that it's been absolutely gutted, it'll suit you.

[@DrakGamestein]

@@Cizal I don't think "gutted" is the right word. It lost of a few things, but also gained a lot. And there will be some active decision making on your stance and how to get the most out of your kit throughout a fight. But hey, they can't make everyone happy.

[@rayhatesu]

@@Cizal iirc he didn't think it was terrible per se, but that the jobs skills didn't fit the job identity at the time during Stormblood.

[@Cizal]

@@DrakGamestein there's no active decision making on your stance though. you stay in fire until you're on 3 stacks at form 3 and then stay in wind forever. unless riddle of earth still makes you switch to earth stance i suppose, if that ability even has any relevance anymore. it hasn't gained very much at all. new chakra move is just the old howling fist but with a different cost, so 0 net change. anatman is sam meditate but fucking awful because it does nothing at 0 and because it's going to potentially force a rotation where you have to just idle for 10 seconds every like 90 seconds, which combined with six sided star, means riddle of fire slowing us down was just a fuckin preview of us doing literally nothing for extra full minutes of some fights. also, increasing our reliance on crits by buffing deep meditation while cutting internal release feels like they don't really know what they're even going for anymore. i don't understand the point of this job now, it's all over the fucking place. the only gain that's like fine is the form 2 aoe move, cool whatever, everyone else got that shit anyway so it's barely even special.

[@TeamNovaRising]

Arrow jokes are now completely negated (probably too late for that, but oh well) *laughs in MNK*

[@XPlayer52c]

So anatman is meditate for monk, got it.

[@PureFury789]

So, does Riddle of Earth still change you to Fists of Earth as well? Or does it function like the new Riddle of Fire?

[@DrakGamestein]

I can't remember if I messed with that. It was honestly the last thing on my mind considering all the new stuff, though lol. I'm hoping 'no'.

[@josecabrera4488]

it works like the new riddle of fire. it decreases damage taken and refreshes the timer on your GL, but you keep your current fist stance

[@PureFury789]

Thanks for the responses, and no worries if it wasn't on your mind. I know it's not too important, but it'll probably still have some niche uses. Thank you for covering the rest of the changes so well though, I'm really excited to test out the new kit for myself!

[@dolphinboi-playmonsterranc9668]

The only person I can truly trust to talk about MNK

[@LeonardoBramante]

No cost for AoEs!? OUR TIME HAS COME MNKS!

[@DrakGamestein]

It was so weird, I was drunk on power! >:D

[@Its_an_Eze]

Drunk Drak 😂😂

[@MoonJuicey]

HELL YEAH MONK CHANGES LET'S GO!

[@RockR277]

Server ticks for anatman?

[@satania6205]

Does tornado kick still consumes all your grease lighting?

[@DrakGamestein]

Yep!

[@headache42]

Trading howling fist for Enlightenment? I'm not sure that's worth it.

[@SimbaKillzZ]

It's definitely not

[@GothKiitsune]

So MNK has a hadoken skill now?

[@sherchi1]

"rotation is the same" RIP TK Rotation also, at 8:18, your calculations are wrong. buffs are multiplicative so its 1.3x1.1 for FoF and GL3.

[@redbraisedjun1630]

Pug a list :D

[@tigerlilley]

Does Riddle of Earth still do nothing if you have a shield?

[@DrakGamestein]

That... I do not know.

[@MistaHoward]

Looks like they completely and utterly butchered the way monk played. RIP, we had a good run, now back to braindead ARR rotations except 5% faster sometimes.

[@Iwinfiltrator]

butchered? nothing changed from the core monk except there's no longer a clunky 5 sec CD on FC and you get more ways to keep your stacks, also figuring out ways to use six sided star effectively is already more interesting than anything we've had in the past

[@MistaHoward]

@@Iwinfiltrator Tornado Kick is dead with PB being 120 and there being literally 0 ways to generate stacks outside of using it. SSS is a clunky skill that will be useless outside of maybe using it one time to finish off RoF or right before downtime. The rotation has devolved to being identical to the 2.0 rotation, but now we don't have Howling Fist, Steel Peak, Fracture, Touch of Death, or Internal Release... but at least we get GL4. Oh wait, that's barely better than GL3 because of the arbitrary buff to Fists of Fire making it actually lower your damage by 3%, so it's effectively just a minor haste buff. It's a huge downgrade, monk now has the simplest rotation it's ever had in the entire game, coming from the TK rotation in Stormblood which was the most complex DPS rotation in the entire game. The entire design is just awful and clunky: you have a dozen ways to keep your stacks but only a single two minute cooldown to generate them, you have a trait that buffs fists of fire which is made virtually useless by the GL4 buff, you have RoF still slowing you down in spite of that being the biggest complain anyone had with monk in Stormblood, and SSS is a virtually useless skill that will be used once every 90 seconds or so, and they rendered one of your remaining skills useless with these changes. On top of all this Dragon Kick is barely a DPS gain since Bootshine is actually more net potency than Dragon Kick if you get a chakra from it. Not only that but they kept the RNG layered on RNG on Deep Meditation; even with a buff to the proc rate it's still a frustrating and unfun trait that shouldn't be RNG in the first place and needed to either be a fixed rate like Bard's procs or be a 100% chance on crit since we no longer have Internal Release.

[@SimbaKillzZ]

@@Iwinfiltrator you dont know how current monk plays obviously

[@Cizal]

gotta be honest, losing howling fist just to get that chakra thing that's basically identically feels really shitty. also how astonishingly awful is low level monk gonna be with basically 0 ogcds?????? what the fuck are they doing with this class? and tornado kick rotation is fucking dead rip the only interesting thing to happen to monk in years.

[@JoakimFigge]

Thats a 28 attack combo... who said Monk was easy to play

[@Wafflemage]

Overall, I'm happy for Monk. AoE spam for trash pulls, Quality of Life changes that don't interfere with party compositions (Two or more Monks in a party or Alliance), and less clunky rotations due to the remover of TP. Life is good and ShadowBringers can't get here soon enough.

[@ravenbirdfire]

Make fun of monks now!! Dx Muhahahahaaa

[@SteveVNukem567]

I suppose I'm the only person who is very happy to see TK being made much less use and viable, if not just outright unusable. From my humble look at the changes it feels like a return to HW monk, relying only on the basic rotation and popping the bigger CD's when they're up, just much much faster. No need for shenanigans and dropping stacks intentionally. I really hope I'm right with that, or I'll have to skip out on monk for another expansion.

[@Cizal]

nope, because back in HW we still had touch of death and fracture. this is worse than TK rotation, worse than HW monk, hell, might even be less interesting than ARR monk.

[@DrakGamestein]

The SB changes when they reworked Riddle of Wind brought in a whole slew of new people who played because they wanted more activity. Meanwhile, I'm sitting here just wanting to go fast with flashy OGCDs lol. And hundred fists. And light and dark chakra. Just a few things :P

[@josecabrera4488]

yeah while RoW certainly made monk really interesting, it also felt really clunky to me. it always felt like it was obvious the community had twisted the monk rotation until TK was viable. it wasn't even too large an increase, either, ultimately. but yeah i'm also super excited to be a fastboi. idk how viable it'll be yet but i'm planning to go crit + sks both for fun and for my static's DNC. 5.0 is gonna be a blast

[@SteveVNukem567]

@@DrakGamestein those things are certainly something I'd like to see too! But I think this is a very good foundation for them to now build and improve upon. And a lot of different classes have more active and involved rotations and burst phases, this way there's more variety for different playstyles, at least that's how I see it.

[@Cizal]

@@josecabrera4488 so what they should have done was formalized tk rotation into monk in 5.0 and iterated on it instead of completely excising it. it was the most interesting development to happen to any job in the history of the game no exaggeration. and now it's just gone so we can have this new braindead rotation.

[@RightFangIkit]

Too bad that Monk is absolutely bad

[@SirusEinzla]

Monk is still too positional reliant imo...