Climb Milling vs. Conventional Milling

An explanation and demonstration of climb milling and conventional milling. Positive and negative points of each technique will be covered as well as examples of what can go wrong.

[@MarqueIVv3]

Hands-down one of the most informative pieces on climb- vs conventional milling. I accidentally clicked on this right before I was supposed to leave for a meeting, but was so impressed with it's depth of information, that being late was completely worth it. What a really, *really* great video and demonstration. To the point, clear, with immediate feedback, and you covered all the directions, angles and styles. I wish all such videos I've found online were this informative, and in such an impressively short time too. (I've learned less in hour-long videos.) Thanks for helping make me a better machinist.

[@TomsTechniques]

+Mark Donohoe Thanks Mark

[@ahobimo732]

This is a dude that is speaking from a lot of practical experience. No fluff here. This is priceless info for people interested in this stuff.

[@TomsTechniques]

I wish I had a nickel for every pound of chips I've produced in the last 45 years. :)

[@ahobimo732]

Well, the experience you've gained from all those years is something money can't buy. And I'm sure there are a whole lot of people, like me, who really appreciate that you take the time to share it with us. If I could, I'd give you all those nickels myself, but I'm still saving up for my own tools. :-/

[@jaysilverheals4445]

also your skills at doing cautious perfect small crashes and grabs WAS THE BEST IVE EVER SEEN--youve got in the hours milling thats for sure.

[@FredMiller]

Great piece Tom. This is the best explanation of why conventional vs climb milling finishes differ I have ever seen. Thanks for taking the time to educate us! Fred

[@TomsTechniques]

+Fred Miller Thanks Fred.

[@geraldestes2470]

+Toms Techniques! yes sir much better explanation and a helluva lot less expensive than using the bosses hi speed video / computer file set-up over at the tech lab. thanks tom. (i personally used a similar video set-up @ ITW / paslode fastener engineering dept. to observe how prototype 'roundrive' nails went thru a 'windowed' nose piece of a pneumatic nailer tool > kinda like trying to find a needle in a haystack searching the 'bazillions' of frames per second...)

[@EastCoastSabers]

As someone just starting out with a small home hobby machine shop I LOVE your videos. I've been watching them for about a year now and you have taught me so many right ways to do things. Thank you for these!

[@TomsTechniques]

That's good to hear. Thanks for watching!

[@stanfischer6175]

Very good demo! An old timer once used the terms "push mill" (conventional) and "pull mill" (climb). I'll watch more of your channel.

[@3Orthoman]

Your videos are as good now as when you made them! Thanks for taking the time to help us out.

[@robertchauval2492]

Thanks for talking through the "whys" of climbing milling. As a hobbyist Ive been aware of it since the 1980s but this the first time I heard a thorough discussion on it. I'll def recommend your channel as a priority must watch for any noobs..

[@ernieparker4309]

I’ve been a Toolmaker for 22 years and today my son sent me a picture of his mill setup at his high school. I asked if they’re teaching them the basics like climb and conventional and he said no. I’m not a good person to explain with words so figured I’d do a quick search and your video came up. I’ll definitely watch it again with him as your explanation is far better than mine and the visual examples are excellent. Nice machine shop too. I’ve always wanted to have one but it’s hard to justify the cost when my employer allows us to use the shop for our own stuff on our own time. Thx again

[@TomsTechniques]

Thanks, Ernie.

[@jimmilne19]

Learned a lot, and your demonstrations (rather than just verbal explanations) make both the procedure and the results - desirable and undesirable - very clear. Super helpful. Thanks again.

[@TomsTechniques]

+Jim Milne Thanks Jim

[@thomwham2239]

Your explanations are excellent as always. I appreciate you taking the time to educate the beginner machinist community. Thank you.

[@TomsTechniques]

+Thom Wham Thank you.

[@rasmillion]

Glad you are back making videos! Thank you for your hard work and fantastically informative material

[@TomsTechniques]

+Ras Thanks for watching.

[@pak715]

I really like the fact that Tom takes time to help us with our techniques. Thank You Tom.

[@TomsTechniques]

+pak715 My pleasure. Thanks for watching.

[@gvet47]

Learned more about milling the square bar held vertical in the vice. Thanks. Glad I found your older video as you made things more clear.

[@scottthornton9237]

That is the best description i have heard explaining conventional vs climb milling. I had never thought of the chip formation. Great video. Thank you for taking the time to make, edit and post this.

[@TomsTechniques]

+Scott Thornton Thanks Scott, I'm glad you enjoyed it.

[@BrilliantDesignOnline]

Sort of knew, but the standing stock jump brought it home; The stock vise grip against the jaws was a GREAT tip. This will live in my memory as I grow as a machinist. Thank you, great explanation.

[@TomsTechniques]

Thanks for watching.

[@stumplifter]

Two thumbs up. Being new to machining I really appreciate how thorough your explanations are, thank YOU!

[@TomsTechniques]

Thanks for watching.

[@IHFarmer2007]

One of the best videos on this subject with and example of what can and will happen. Just got a milling machine and was doing a decent climb cut of steel and it did what your example did but in my case it broke the end mill. Thanks

[@emiliog.4432]

Thanks Tom. This is so often over looked, misunderstood or disregarded. This video makes it pretty clear. Great demo.

[@TomsTechniques]

Thanks Emilio. The time you start ignoring whether you are climb or conventional milling is the time it jumps up and bites you in the ass. Tom

[@jonruffolo]

This finally makes sense. Professors never seemed to be able to properly explain it and I don't know why. Thank you!

[@dorianmccarthy7602]

I'm new to milling and this was the perfect explanation for when to do each type of cut and explaining why will make the knowledge stick - great vid!

[@TomsTechniques]

Good to hear!

[@toddbertram6556]

Great. I've been doing more or less simple machining for 15 years, learning and picking up tips from trained machinist but found I simple end up machining by feel and common sense without having actually studied the physics involved. It is definitely a plus to understand more substantially why I'm doing what I'm doing. I can see learning a great deal in the next few months simply watching this channel and similar ones and being able to take on much more substantial projects and fixtures. Thank you for taking the time making these videos.

[@TomsTechniques]

Thanks for watching

[@mikavaliaho7143]

Best video about topic so far on internet. Thanks Tom.

[@allanpeters]

Thanks for the lesson, Tom. A 200V DoAll followed me home from work last fall... very low hours and light use, should last me the rest of my life. Looking forward to more of your style of teaching. Take care, Allan

[@TomsTechniques]

+allanpeters It's a very nice mill. I bought mine new in the mid 80's when Bridgeport quality was suffering under the Textron acquisition and it has served me very well over the years. Thanks for watching. Tom

[@cleankeys4962]

Thanks, this is one of the best explanations I've seen.

[@gateway8833]

I am not a machinist but I still need to make parts for my equipment and you just cleared up years of frustrating screw up and have saved me a lot of money. I have broken enough cutters and mills to supply a small country because I was doing every operation backwards. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, and my boys say I can't change how I do things.

[@TomsTechniques]

Thanks. It's good to hear the videos are helping. Just send a check to... ;) Tom

[@pdschu6599]

Thanks for the lesson. Good to see you back teaching. Looking forward to more!

[@TomsTechniques]

+Paul Schumacher Thanks Paul

[@anthony10370]

Wow that was a great explanation. Thank you. Before this video I understood why climb milling grabbed the part but not why the surface finish was better. Thank you for clearing that up.

[@TomsTechniques]

Thanks. Glad I could shed some light on the subject. Tom

[@ActiveAtom]

Nice non confusing explanation of the two cutting directions. Excellent top of the stock climb no burr time saver move. Great lesson here we are happy to have found this channel.

[@TomsTechniques]

Thanks for watching

[@brianjohnson217]

Hi Tom thank you for a very interesting video on climb and conventional milling . Very well explained. Regards Brian

[@minimotorman5931]

Thank you for your video, just 18 minutes and now I "get" it. I went to school for a year, bought the textbooks, listened to the lecturer...but it never really sank in. Watching you explain things in action though, now it makes sense! Again thank you, you earned a new subscriber.

[@TomsTechniques]

Thanks for watching

[@davidschwartz5127]

Thanks, Tom, have zero training on a milling machine I basically have taught my self, though not always with good results as you just demonstrated. I could see the surface finish differences and the mill talking back to me but never knew why. You have made it all make sense!

[@TomsTechniques]

Good to hear, David. Thanks for watching.

[@BoyNamedStacy]

Awesome, thank you for the perfect instruction! Great timing too, I’m getting my first knee mill next week. 😃

[@LinuxUser822]

I am glad that I found your channel. This is definitely the best explanation related to milling I saw so far. Can't wait to se all of your video :)

[@TomsTechniques]

Welcome aboard :)

[@BrendanMcAdams]

Great practical demonstration and explanation. Liked how you use the vise as a white board. Subscribed and looking forward to more.

[@stargatefred]

I can't find what I was talking about. Thanks Tom I will keep watching and if I figure out what I was talking about ill let you know. Keep up the great work.

[@robertcopp2411]

I think this might be the best video on this subject on youtube.

[@Herr_Bone]

Good explanation, I learned the same 40 years ago. Anyhow, in the modern machines with very little backlash climb cutting is always used, as it saves tool life and produces better surfaces.

[@nitehawk1224]

Thank you Tom, I have read about climb milling but could not understand how it worked until I viewed your demonstration.

[@TomsTechniques]

+William Ottewell Thanks for watching William.

[@Gabrielde2ori]

I knew the difference very well, but didn't knew how to explain it to others. Thank you!

[@thomaslamora1679]

nice video. good demonstrations and the explanation at the end explains exactly why the machine and part react that way.

[@h2opower]

Thanks for the clear explanation as I am new to the game getting started in all of this at a late age in my life and can use the wisdom of those that have been in the game for a long time like you.

[@TomsTechniques]

Thanks Edward. Glad I can help. Tom

[@tomherd4179]

Besides the difference in milling, your placement of how to secure the part in the first place was thought provoking! Thanks, Tom

[@TomsTechniques]

+Tom Herd It is very important to keep in mind how the cutter is going act on the part, at the start, middle and end of the cut. All three will act differently on the part. Tom

[@mrcpu9999]

You know, I've been watching machining channels for 5 years or so, I've listened to various people talk about it, I've read about it, but it has never clicked as to *exactly* what the issues were until now. I realize this video is 6 years old, but I want to thank you for somehow getting the old lightbulb in my brain to finally light up and understand what the heck the differences actually meant. I hope you post more, you have a good presentation style. Thanks. And sub'd.

[@TomsTechniques]

Thanks. I'm currently up to my ears building a new shop, but hope to start posting again, soon. Glad you got something out of the video.

[@wiredodger60]

Nice job Tom. I think of it as scooping, conventional..... and clawing, climb milling. What I didn't know was the physics of how and why one worked better than the other depending on the finish you were working toward. That lesson was presented really well. Thanks Tom.

[@TomsTechniques]

+wiredodger60 Thanks. That's a good analogy.

[@luvstruck2733]

Thanks Tom. I learned something crucial which will help me when I get my milling machine.

[@gusbisbal9803]

This is THE best explanation of Climb vs conventional milling I have ever seen, and I have seen a few. I always new it was all about chip thickness but I never really visualised it as well as this.

[@TomsTechniques]

+gus bisbal Thanks Gus

[@John4566442]

+gus bisbal I agree, excellent demonstration and explanation. Concise, coherent and easily understandable. Great work.

[@jonarbuckle1560]

That was a damn fine lesson on what can be a difficult to describe concept. Well done. Thank you!

[@TomsTechniques]

Thank you. It sure beats learning it the hard way. Tom

[@SlowEarl1]

Great Explanation .Thank you for taking the time to teach.You have helped me greatly.

[@TomsTechniques]

+SlowEarl1 That's good to hear Earl.

[@joselara5294]

Thanks for this sort of video, really helps me to visualize the differences. great work.

[@larrysperling8801]

great to have you back,you were missed. looking forward to more videos. thanks tom.

[@TomsTechniques]

+larry sperling Thanks for watching Larry.

[@bstangeby]

Good explanation of what is going on with the intersection of the cutter and work. I think I finally understand.

[@TomsTechniques]

+Bruce Stangeby Thanks Bruce.

[@rgrolman]

Thanks Tom. Great explanation! Probably the best I've seen online. My endmills thank you too.

[@TomsTechniques]

Thanks for watching!

[@_P0tat07_]

I've always had a problem telling the two apart. Never again! Thanks tom!

[@TomsTechniques]

+P0tat0_craft That is definitely a good thing

[@jacquibirnie]

Thanks for such a clear explanation and demonstration. Very helpful for a non-technical person.

[@markthepcdoc7707]

Very nice video tom. I have not seen a better explanation and demonstration of the two techniques. Thanks

[@TomsTechniques]

Thanks Mark

[@bertyjustice4424]

Excellent information thanks Tom. I thought there was something wrong with my mill when it was jerking , I now know it's because I am climbing.

[@eamonnp]

Thanx Teach! Like I'm back in school, but the fun stuff, like auto or wood... or metal/machining (the one my school lacked). I like your way of describing, really drew me and made the lesson fun. I really hope they bring back more tradesman schools here in Cali. Thanks again, now I have to watch the rest of your videos.

[@TomsTechniques]

That's good to hear. It's been a long time since I taught in a classroom. Once manufacturing starts coming back to the country, so will the "fun stuff" in education. Tom

[@emilbader1524]

Thanks a bunch for you expertise on this subject. Keep them coming.

[@chrishill6276]

Thanks for the explanation Tom. This has been a great help to me

[@pkav8tor]

Ah, winter is in the air and Tom is back in the shop ..... nice to see you again. Looking forward to a few more videos to enjoy. Regards, greg

[@TomsTechniques]

+pkav8tor Thanks Greg.

[@johnstrange6799]

Thanks for the video. These are some fundamentals I hope remain with me always.

[@silverior]

Thanks for the detailed explanation and demonstration. You've helped to save a few cutters for sure!

[@TomsTechniques]

+Silverio Reyes That's one of my goals in life, to help cutters live long productive lives.

[@BisonWorkshop]

you did a very good job explaining the differances. i have done it both ways but didnt know there was a differant name for both. thanks for the lesson.

[@TomsTechniques]

+Bison Workshop Thanks for watching.

[@EZ_shop]

Another fantastic explanation/demonstration. Thanks Tom.

[@TomsTechniques]

+Crivo152 Thanks for watching.

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

Great video and a real help for those of us who are not quite sure what we are doing. Thanks.

[@TLervis]

I really enjoy your videos. Straight to the point.

[@TomsTechniques]

Thanks

[@mwvanwyk]

As someone that is still new to machining with a mill I learned a lot from this video. I had a part climb out of my vice as you describe around the 13 minute mark and did not know what I did wrong but your explanation and example really put everything into perspective. Thanks.

[@TomsTechniques]

That's good to hear. Too bad you didn't catch the video before the crash. :) Tom

[@mwvanwyk]

Tom Very true, but some trial and error for a new user is expected. Thanks again.

[@TomsTechniques]

Crashes can be expensive in machining, so hopefully these videos can help prevent some of them. Tom

[@Villageautotaz]

Hi Tom .. What a great teacher you are! I am a noob and just starting out, this is so clearly explained and very well presented ..Thank you.

[@TomsTechniques]

+Ziwi Thanks

[@armdaMan]

Hello TOM All the best for Your 2016. As always, we have improved on the sum of our Machining skills with this great explanation and presentation. Did not realise the difference when U did that "squaring the Block" Video. It clearly shoes the difference on the Burrs here. Fantastic stuff. Keep 'em rolling aRM

[@TomsTechniques]

+aR M Thanks. The burr thing I do without thinking because I've been doing it for so long. It wasn't until someone called me out for not deburring the part that I realized that it wasn't obvious what I was doing on the video. Tom

[@slantzscuderia]

I love this channel. Thank you for all the information.

[@1OlBull]

Tom, Happy New Year. I always enjoy watching your videos. Learn something every time. Thanks.

[@TomsTechniques]

+1OlBull Thanks

[@canalboating]

Tom. I don't know if you will see this comment but as someone new to lathes and miling can I say a Massive thank you to you for taking the time and effort to make your videos, you have taught me so much, everything is explained and shown clearly. thank you

[@TomsTechniques]

I do see the comments and it's always good to hear when someone appreciates the videos. Thanks for watching!

[@pmcdaidresilient8834]

Very useful. Thanks for taking the time to share your experience.

[@BenMBass]

this is a much more interesting point than what my teacher told me in school, all he said was climb milling wears out your cutting edge faster, conventional makes it last longer, so always conventional mill, but now I see I should do conventional for rough milling, and climb for the last fine cut, cheers!

[@wjb111]

Sounds like your teacher needs to go back to school. In theory, climb milling should wear less than conventional due to more rubbing when entering the cut.

[@CompEdgeX2013]

Nice, well thought out presentation Tom. Great job. Colin :-)

[@TomsTechniques]

+CompEdgeX Thanks Colin

[@gordo3di]

Just got our first mill a Grizzly G0759. Just subbed. Love the channel and learning a lot!

[@TomsTechniques]

Excellent. It's a nice mill for the money, but on the light side. Be careful when climb milling. Thanks for watching. Tom

[@gordo3di]

Saw that when playing today. Didn't know it was called climb milling. Thanks

[@mechmotion]

This is great for a manual machine. You are spot on with all the issues and benefits. Additionally, on a CNC with ball screws and very little backlash, climb milling is best all around due to the better chip clearance and better surface finishes. As an added bonus, tool life also goes up with climb milling with light, fast passes (High Speed Machining or High Efficiency Machining) on a CNC.

[@TomsTechniques]

Thanks Tom. Tool life is definitely better when climb milling due to the lack of rubbing as the cutter enters the work. Tom

[@phantienhung93]

Thank you so much Toms. Nice present :) Now I'm know what is Climb milling compare with Conventional milling :)

[@PooManchoo2]

Love your work and explanations. Thanks again Tom.

[@TomsTechniques]

+PooManchoo2 Glad to be of service.

[@BrokenAbyss]

I had an old school boilermaker show me everything I know about steel and he didn't do so in purpose he actually wished I never learned. I couldn't ask questions really or use welder on lunch to practice etc. now I'm learning different operations of machines used primarily in machine shops and it's be weird. I'm so grateful because I wouldn't learn it any other way but I'm also confused because you're giving away your and your brother machinists secrets away. I know it feels good to give back but not your livelyhood. thanks for the information you're definitely one of the more watchable how to videos with the milling that I've seen so far.

[@TomsTechniques]

This country is in dire need of skilled machinists and other tradesmen. I'm happy to pass on any knowledge I have that may help the cause.

[@BrokenAbyss]

Toms Techniques thanks because this is foreign grounds for me. I didn't plan on working steel it chose me. I've just worked hard and it's stayed around. I got fired up seeing what's obviously younger men on here trying to learn and they could be out doing anything or nothing like other people their age but they still want more and enjoy learning because I've been witnessing that. I got an opportunity to start machining parts and welding Axel's for a bigger plant close to home and good pay so I didn't know what to do to prepare and I came here. and found y'all on here basically running an online course the way you respond you'd think you're getting paid and they're in school. It's awesome because y'all aren't.

[@BrokenAbyss]

Toms Techniques yeah I'd beat the house we all thank you. I felt like saying thanks was not enough after reading everything back I sincerely thank you Tom. What you're doing is almost unpresidented. I'd beat again you've given most of your life literally working this trade and here you are giving it back to the whole world in as easily understood format for learners as you can. I haven't seen ads on your videos so I assume it's 100%donated to paying it forward. Step by step audio matching video. no one else on here is doing it to your level that I've seen. You're awesome.

[@lbcustomknives]

Tom I have many many books have watched a lot on KZbin and no one seems to get there -point across. Or explains like you do buddy. You have a way of explaining things that make so much sense. By trial and error I figured this out in the end but people starting out will save them going through the crashes take care lee

[@TomsTechniques]

+lbcustomknives Thanks Lee, that's good to hear. Sometimes it's hard to tell if the message gets across without the instant feed back of a face to face lesson. Tom

[@lbcustomknives]

+Toms Techniques your welcome Tom.. Good to see you posting again.. There are a lot of KZbin machinist channels.. But they seem to over complicate the issue.. And use a lot of machinist jargon.. That is not always easy to understand.. You teach and part with you knowledge in a very down to earth way.. That never leaves you with.. Mmmm. I still don't understand.. Keep up the good work.. Stay safe and take care.. Lee.

[@vishnuarakuzha]

Great observation, you've proved that there are simple solutions for big troubles than complex solutions

[@TomsTechniques]

Thanks for watching

[@makeitwork30]

Great Video! This is a lesson I learned the hard way, back when I was just out of high school at my first machinist job. I actually broke the Y-Axis shear pin and slammed the whole table to the end of the Way. I knew not to hog climb cut but as kids do, I just wasn't paying attention that moment... I've been a Toolmaker for 20 years, It NEVER happened again!

[@TomsTechniques]

Yes, those kind of lessons tend to make a lasting impression.

[@Ujeb08]

A very good demo Tom! Using a slow larger diameter cutter while climbing at a slow feedrate really gets the point across.

[@TomsTechniques]

+Ujeb08 Thanks. Nothing makes a bigger impression than a good crash. Tom

[@tombellus8986]

Great explanation of the difference in the two ways of milling. Thanks for all your videos

[@TomsTechniques]

+Tom Bellus Thanks Tom. I shot some more today, but didn't have time to get it edited. I'll try to get it up later in the week. Tom

[@rickl.orchids]

.....good info Tom, great explanation........no one that has any time in a shop hasnt had a crash.......keeping them to once every few years is the secret.........like you explained, know your machine, and know its limits as well.........good to see ya back in the shop.

[@TomsTechniques]

+Rick L Thanks. We have all had more crashes than we care to admit. Hopefully this will head a few off for others. Tom

[@bobsorenson5761]

VERY good demonstration. Best explanation I've seen on this subject

[@TomsTechniques]

+Bob Sorenson Thanks Bob.

[@troyd-motorsport9933]

Perfect explanation, thanks Tom.. I have a light smaller machine and everything I was reading was to use climb (even the default setting in fusion 360 for gcode) now knowing this I will try conventional for my rough cuts and climb for finishing.. Thanks

[@TomsTechniques]

+Troy Dawson Thanks for watching

[@swamihuman9395]

Very well done. I'm a newbie, so this really helped. Thx.

[@brianlrayburn2576]

Thanks Tom. Always wanted to have an understanding of the difference. Great novice or hobbyist information.

[@TomsTechniques]

+Brian Rayburn Thanks Brian

[@michaelpierce3879]

Awesome video and you break it down so that anyone can understand it.

[@TomsTechniques]

+Michael Pierce Good to hear.

[@GglSux]

+Toms Techniques Thanks for a very well done video with thurrough and clear explanations. Best regards

[@TomsTechniques]

Thank you for watching

[@hamadal-shuaili9909]

Mr. Tom, Thanks for sharing the video. The differences between these two types are clear. Climbing can break the tools.

[@TomsTechniques]

Either can break tools. Climbing just does it faster if you aren't careful.

[@pontiac1978]

Super Video demonstrating what the differences are! I will have to try and possibly change my CNC programs.Thank You Sir.

[@TomsTechniques]

Thanks. CNC mills use ball lead screws, so there is no backlash, and they are extremely rigid, so climb milling can (and should) be used all of the time. Tom

[@undercrackers56]

I was wondering why I was getting dissapointing finishes from my 6040. This explains it. Thank you.

[@TomsTechniques]

Good to hear. Thanks for watching.

[@MrUbiquitousTech]

Great info and demonstration Tom; thanks as always for sharing!

[@TomsTechniques]

+ShysterLawyer Glad you enjoyed it

[@TomsTechniques]

+Toms Techniques You are welcome

[@Ainttheone84]

I'm a 1 year greenhorn on a Clausing, I'm very easy on the mill. Your tips are much appreciated 🤘💜

[@Ainttheone84]

Also any tips or vids on key ways?

[@MartsGarage]

Thanks Tom, a nice easy to understand explanation of an interesting subject. Mart.

[@TomsTechniques]

+martsrods Thanks for watching.

[@glennfelpel9785]

Very well explained. Always noticed the clime milling left a better finish but didn't understand why. Thank you for sharing this.

[@TomsTechniques]

+Glenn Felpel Thanks for watching Glenn.