Fight Scene Autopsy: The Last Jedi Throne Room, Star Wars

Introducing the most pedantic overly detailed analysis of movie fight scenes on KZbin, Fight Scene Autopsy, where I review fight scenes for how realistic they are in respect to historical combat! In this episode we're analyzing the throne room fight scene from Star Wars the Last Jedi where Rey and Kylo face off against Snoke's bodyguards.
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[@gulli72]

14:20 "Hello. Customer support." "Hello, it's Rey. Someone has wrapped his whip around my lightsaber." "Have you tried turning it off and on again?"

[@thunderspark1536]

Huh that might be a proper strategy in that situation, unlike a sword it can be turned off!

[@davidegaruti2582]

That is very stupid : the fact that Ryan Jonson extablishes something in an already extablished universe and then proceeds to ignore it completely . It is like the light speed ramming , but at least there is no other instance in which it could have been useful , but this , this is fucking bullshit , that means that that coreography was written in one go and then it wasn't rewieved , and if it was reviewed it is even worse because you couldn't see your mistake .

[@aurex8937]

"I'm tryin-" "MA'AM, NOT WHILE LOOKING AT IT-" *Charred flesh noises* "Oh shit, this is the third one this week..."

[@pathfindersavant3988]

Believe it or not, that's an actual Lightsaber martial art style in the old canon: Tràkata

[@aurex8937]

@@pathfindersavant3988 Old canon? Oh, you mean the only canon that counts :D

[@Kratatch]

I bet the stuntmens are glad the helmets cover their faces in this scene.

[@SydCar]

Yeah.. I was sick that day. That’s not actually me. ... YOU CANT PROVE IT!!!

[@knightsonofjack]

Apparently their eyes too lol

[@Chzydawg]

the only saving grace in the scene is the stuntmen doing their job. It's not the stuntmen's fault the actors are missing every single one of their cues. It becomes the stuntmen's job quickly anticipate the lack of skill and do some shit to distract the viewer from seeing how poor the actors choreography is.

[@jonkeathegamer]

@@Chzydawg which I'd say they do a pretty good job at, considering the fight looks better to the untrained eye, looking at it for the first time.

[@StudlyFudd13]

@@jonkeathegamer I do not have a trained eye at all, I am not a sword fighting person and man it still looked sloppy. Especially when one guys' dagger just disappears all of the sudden

[@RealGLP]

If Anakin vs Obi Wan is what my friends and I thought we looked like playing in the backyard, this is what we actually looked like.

[@Crash5555]

Lol

[@shadowwriter329]

Now that is not fair…I am sure you and your childhood friend were much more coordinated then the stunt men of this movie.

[@filmandfirearms]

@@shadowwriter329 The stunt men were perfectly well coordinated. They just had the most idiotic choreography imaginable to perform

[@JohnFourtyTwo]

@@filmandfirearms We mustn't forget the actors with no sword skills swinging those props like baseball bats and broomsticks.😁

[@filmandfirearms]

@@JohnFourtyTwo Adam Driver didn't do too bad. It could've been salvaged if it was just him. Unfortunately, Daisy Ridley exists

[@TransformersBoss]

Can we note that, with the dagger guy, even if he’s missing his left dagger, he could just be using his left fist to punch her in the back of the head the whole time. They might as well have edited out his whole arm…

[@NineBreakerUIXB]

Hugely underrated comment lol, could've grabbed her hair with the free hand and stabbed with the knife that didn't evaporate too

[@mrvespuccia.k.ameganite1747]

or he could just grab his dagger with his free left hand and stab her in the back

[@oil588]

Actually his entire arm was paralyzed lore wise.

[@s.i.m.poster6823]

Lore wise?? Oh please, you can't convince me that they're actually using the force in this battle.

[@marty.m2933]

@@NineBreakerUIXB I'm half-convinced that if he tried that, his other weapon would evaporate, too. Then he'd probably have to strangle her.

[@bcfb21]

Tbf all the guards are wearing helmets without eye holes. So they’re blind.

[@shadowthedragon7151]

Not bad for a bunch of blind dudes... Maybe they all secretly have a connection to the force!?

[@aurex8937]

They have good hearing. Force hearing.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

Smoke should have just cloned the blind dude from rouge one!

[@omikron6218]

They have tiny slits to see through

[@razanon4373]

To be fair, there is a Star Wars race without eyes. They see with the Force.

[@antyriax2429]

The guards missing their strikes is due to them measuring in the Imperial System but the fight was in metric.

[@pearcyjackson280]

Very nice joke my g

[@Fran-of3dl]

best comment

[@Jehtblu]

Lol I couldn't like this enough

[@stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369]

Wonderful

[@therealslimshady3662]

underrated comment XD

[@derworfnet]

This scene could basicaly serve as a metaphor for the entire movie: Looks gorgeous, seems cool at first glance but completely falls apart once you look even a *little bit* closer. Tragic because this is actually fixable. All the neccessary building blocks are here. Imagine how great this would have been if they had actually *nailed* the choeography...

[@hendrik7354]

They were on the verge of greatnis, they were this close

[@scipioafricanus2212]

If they had used proper choreography then it would be difficult for Rey and Kylo to prevail surrounded and outnumbered by elite warriors

[@astraesl9547]

Like the weapon concepts are amazing, but their uses are completely botched

[@zhenyapestun]

after all - they could refilm scene and patch "DVD version" - but again, they doesnt CARE

[@insensitive919]

Except they are Jedi, they should be constantly using the force to push their enemies away. Kinda tough to make a realistic looking force push within a one-take fight scene. I like to pretend that in jedi duels maybe force pushes don't always work and leave you open, but against non-jedi there doesn't seem to be a reason not to.

[@Forobryt]

20:03 The guy just throwing his weapon aside to get let himself get stabbed by Kylo. Classic combat tactic right there.

[@awesome_by_default]

You see, the goal is to confuse the enemy into lowering their own guard.

[@awesome_by_default]

You see, the goal is to confuse the enemy into lowering their own guard.

[@scottski02]

Snoke: I have purposely trained my guards wrong, as a joke.

[@ozlek7853]

Praetorian Guard: I’ll try spinning, that’s a good trick.

[@aurex8937]

Morgan Freeman: *"Alas, that wasn't a good trick."*

[@gbladewarrior6884]

They just have to look like their doing their job to collect insurance and retire.

[@frealms]

@@gbladewarrior6884 Looks like the new Praetorian Guards took a page from Attack on Titan's Military Police. Train hard, become the best, get a cushion job, retire with a good pension.

[@someguycalledcerberus9805]

Came here looking for this comment.

[@karlhans6678]

spin to win!

[@blazeofglory4053]

Your opponent is completely open! Would you: [ A ]: Swing your weapon [ B ]: Swing your weapon [ C ]: Swing your weapon [ D ]: *SPIN 2 WIN*

[@G0blinM0de]

E: leave the set

[@wesselvanharrewijn3082]

F: *punch them in the face for no reason*

[@orangecatguy9845]

G: Do a little kick and forget about your weapon.

[@xd_mystyyyyy]

H: Drop your lightsaber and let him stab you

[@tomilayjr]

I:do nothing

[@austinbrake1467]

how did this scene get past 1. the choreographers 2. the actors 3. the people behind the camera 4. the editors 5. the people who saw it post edit 😞

[@jonmurphy4889]

Kathleen Kennedy

[@lookwhatyoudidtomyfish4453]

1. They hired people who don’t ask questions 2. They hired people who don’t ask questions 3. They hired people who don’t ask questions 4. They hired people who don’t ask questions 5. They hired people who don’t ask questions

[@zonefreakman]

But doesn't Rey look stunning and brave blocking 3 guys attacks at once with ease?

[@lookwhatyoudidtomyfish4453]

@@zonefreakman omg she totally does!!! Filthy men are coping and seething at this spectacular and well-written female character! The force is female!!!

[@Stormchazer246]

Not to mention they did MULTIPLE TAKES of this fight scene, and THIS was the one they landed on. I’d hate to see how the other takes went.

[@napoleonbonaparte9700]

Dont even mention that in almost all time fighting Rey was full of Rage what is not the Jedi way

[@gordiandres]

She’s not even a real Jedi and I’m not defending her bc I really do think these movies were ass but she can’t even be called a Jedi

[@Splinter-ge9pf]

@@gordiandres Ahsoka which was literally expelled from the jedi order, but was more of a jedi than Ray shields would ever be

[@gordiandres]

@@Splinter-ge9pf and I agree with you Ahsoka is my favorite character. I was just doing an "ACKshually" kind of thing here n being an ass but I fully agree with you

[@DEEZ_N4T]

Splinter6662 technically after she was removed she was brought back into the order after the false accusations have been solved but decided to leave, because she saw the hypocrisy the Jedi have become

[@undeaddave9671]

It's the leftist liberal way though.

[@swordwrath5492]

When the DM is trying not to kill the party who is in way over their head

[@Wetcorps]

This is what most action movies feel like nowadays : roleplaying with an overly nice GM.

[@chrisfisher4503]

THIS^^^^ ALL the this.

[@nintenhaku6539]

GM: "roll CMB" *Rey rolls 1 GM: *sigh* "Okay, the guard blocks with one weapon and uh... doesn't attack with the other. Roll again" *Rey rolls 1 GM: "...ookay... you allow yourself to get locked in a bind, but uh... the guard's weapon disappeared. Roll again." *Rey rolls abother 1 GM: "Oh for fu--... You wanna use a Hero point?" Rey: "Um... sure?" GM: "OKAY! You drop your lightsaber, let go off the the guard pressing against you. Who coincidentally stops pressing against you and you kill him." Rey: "Yay!" ^_^

[@zarthemad8386]

.... this isnt the DM pulling punches.. its the DM that spent hour on "his story" and lying about his rolls as the party decided to attack the castle guards rather than run.

[@thomascranor2668]

@@nintenhaku6539 Rey: I must be a master swordswoman!

[@sandwich434]

*I used to think this scene was a tragedy, now I realize that it is a comedy*

[@spacejesus6581]

What do you get when you cross a timeless series with thousands of fans that will stand the test of time with a STUPID DIRECTOR AND MONEY HUNGRY COMPANY?!? YOU GET WHAT YOU FUCKING DESERVE *Disney files bankruptcy*

[@ab14967]

@@spacejesus6581 Unfortunately, that's never going to happen. Disney just has too damn much to fail, and way too much that they can just take multiple hits... especially since they still managed to make a big profit on these movies.

[@troo_6656]

Well you know it took time.

[@spacejesus6581]

Vojta Janda _this entire scene was recorded in less than a week with no prior training for the actors_

[@williamharmon4039]

@@spacejesus6581 Really?

[@thadmeboy1129]

Dooku: "I have trained my entire life to become a master at form 2 an-" Rey: haha baseball bat go fwoomp

[@iamnathanael2132]

The guards are really just gentle souls. They don't ACTUALLY want to hurt Rey or Kyle

[@Ackalan]

Guard 1 in his mic: So he's our new boss now, right? Guard 2: Yupp, seems like it, oh shit, that crazy woman is about to attack him, disarm her right now! Guard 1: Shame these helmets are sound proof, we'll just explain later. And the rest is history. Edit: Hold on, did I just make the story 100 times better?

[@TankHunter678]

@@Ackalan Guard 3: By the way, does anyone remember why our helmets are sound proof? Guard 4: Remember Steve? How he would combat boredom by humming? Guard 3: Oh right, and after Snoke turned him into Charcoal over it we got our new helmets.

[@veryangryduckpl2122]

@@TankHunter678 Sequels writers would just probably said something along the lines of: Darf sefretz ok de Zidh

[@natyelmaligno4022]

*Select difficulty:* Easy: Praetorian guards Extreme: Shad's son

[@spacejesus6581]

Insane Nightmare: Ewan McGregor

[@landlockedcroat1554]

*D E A T H:* Geralt of Batman

[@harry_page]

I could easily imagine Shad's son nae naeing all those lobsters

[@zthehooman]

Jedi grand master: *TR 8R*

[@Santisima_Trinidad]

TAS only: shad.

[@shadiversity]

I don’t dislike this fight scene because I dislike the Last Jedi, I dislike this fight scene because it’s a bad fight scene, and because it’s bad it makes me dislike the Last Jedi more. . . Also Fight Scene Autopsy is not meant to be fully critical, trust me I’ll be praising things when they’re praiseworthy, there’s just very little here. . .

[@DuSpeedieGamer]

Shadiversity love what you do!! Thank you for the genuinely good content :’]

[@sharaxo]

Sup Shad love your stuff. They are called the Pantoraen Guards I believe. I think one of the star wars scenes you should look at is the fight scene from the end of Star Wars Episode 3. Becuase they had actually swordsmen on set to train Haden and Ewan. Also the movie of 'The Musketeer' because of the same reason.

[@morlath4767]

It's always a bit of a shame when you have to keep reiterating what real criticism is and how that doesn't necessarily mean you don't like what you're critiquing. I'm obviously commenting before I've watched the video but I want to say a huge thank you for this. As a writer, I'm kind of obsessed with trying to write fight scenes (with weapons) that are realistic enough to work even if some small fiction details slip in there. The problem has always been that I've been so flooded with how pop culture views battles (and not have any personal weapons training) that I know how the stuff I imagine is, at best, borderline wrong. So yeah, this is one series I'm extremely grateful for! Edit: And also, fantastic shout out for Mauler. The dude is insane with his critiques.

[@mariobadia4553]

They did do something that should be common sense for any Jedi or Sith(turning your lightsaber on and of in combat is a super effective strategy that's never used for some reason).

[@nasserfirelordarts6574]

This was certainly one of the worst fights ever

[@tracymaxwell11]

I watched a video in which professional stunt co-ordinator breaks down the scene. He noticed a lot of pointless spinning and waiting and the guy said that stunt men usually do this because the actors are late and are not in position yet. It's pretty obvious that more practice was needed in terms of choreography. Compare this to the Duel of the Fates where the actors had practiced the moves tirelessly. I was so disappointed with this fight.

[@David-ud9ju]

Yeah, the fact that Disney spent hundreds of millions on this film but they couldn't be bothered to practise the fight scenes just sums up Disney. Everything is superficial and terrible and they just rely on marketing. Same with most things nowadays to be fair like the music industry and most of the politics you see on the internet.

[@emhu2594]

@@David-ud9ju Everything about the last jedi was a poorly thought through mess. daisy ridley should have spent a lot more time learning how to move and fight because she looks incompetent and that is not fun to watch for 3 whole movies.

[@subpargamer1119]

The actors in Duel of the Fates were so good the editors actually had to slow the scene down a bit in post so the audience could actually follow what was happening. They set a new standard for fight choreography that is rarely reached to this day.

[@mourad505]

Say what you will about Episode III, but Ewan Mcgregor and Hayden Christensen were amazing in that final duel.

[@subpargamer1119]

@@mourad505 Ewan was one of the few consistently good things about the prequels. There are many things wrong with those movies but Ewan was not one of them. I’m glad his career didn’t suffer too much because of them.

[@perfectorganism2504]

Prequels: it’s clear that this battle cannot be decided with our power of the force but with our skill with a light saber. Sequels: I’ll try spinning that’s a good trick xD

[@roffels11-gamingandhistory69]

Which skill? ^^ I don't see any.

[@romancapulus5577]

Originals: Knights of the middle ages

[@theastroguy7417]

@@romancapulus5577 originals were more about the story between the fight and not the fight itself

[@insensitive919]

They aren't even fighting other Jedi, they should be spamming Force Push like mad! It worked great in the Jedi Knight games!

[@gilbatzri]

Prequels: Imma spin this like a ferris wheel. Not sure which films you were watching.

[@jv8462]

Stuntman: Mr. Johnson, aren't we a bit overdressed for the rehearsal of this scene? Rian: Surprise! We're shooting this on the first take, no rehearsals! Stuntman: That sounds massively stupid. Rian: Yes, but it subverted your expectations, so it's genius.

[@magmarok8209]

This struck joy in my day thank you good sir.

[@mbnhiphopmusik6429]

Actually... That is what that scene feels like. And that is frustrating since it had at least some potential (if it was shot properly and everyone would not be fricking retarded).

[@Rakkhot]

hehe, massive

[@combatking0]

"Amateurs like you do two takes. I do one take!" -Calculon, 3003- Ruin Johnson, 2017.

[@picard714]

My word, Jorge, it's like you were on set that day. hahaha

[@sonofthewolfguardianofthef1214]

Rey and Ren keep missing their queues Stuntmen trying not to kill: twirling

[@matthewkern496]

that's what happens when you hire subpar actors who don't show up for choreography practice and a director that honestly doesn't give a f*** about logic or reason and just s***s all over Star Wars. Choreographer: So here, this dagger guy is pretty much going to kill Rey because his dagger is about to go into the back of her skull. Johnson: Ok...remove the dagger. CGI guy: Really? You want- Johnson: Haven't you seen the rest of the movie? I really don't give a f*** about continuity or even know what that word means.

[@TheKarp]

Ani: try spinning, that's a good trick!

[@hq4287]

@@matthewkern496 How do you know this is what happened?

[@IRMentat]

Robert Bennett Rey looks confused throughout. Ren at least is selling it, though yes, he is also missing beats.

[@matthewkern496]

@@hq4287 It's obvious because of the amount of missed cues/timing and mistakes still in the scene. If they want me to believe these are Snoke's personal guard, then my fing god, no wonder he was assassinated due to how inept they are at fighting. This is almost parody level inept with how many times they had to miss to avoid killing Ridley or Driver. Same goes for Ridley and Driver; their fighting styles and apparent lack of experience is greatly amplified when it is taken frame by frame. I knew this scene was already pretty bad, but my god, it is an epic disaster of a fight scene. if they had shot this at least one more time, they MIGHT have fixed the glaring mistakes in the fight scene. Either that or the fighting choreographer is a bigger idiot than Johnson, but that is a stretch imho.

[@viyhexe131]

As a 40K fan; calling these guys "imperial guards" feels a little insulting to the competency of even the lowliest of the Imperium's cannon fodder.

[@Azachor]

The planet broke before the guard did!

[@PropagandaDS]

I doubt both of them could stand up to a Kill Team of Imperial Guard

[@gorg6151]

@@PropagandaDS make that ONE imperial guard

[@PropagandaDS]

@@gorg6151 of the plot demands it

[@pedrovilasgomes9144]

What's funny is that they are the "equivalent" of the custodes because they are guarding the leader of the whole thing, now imagine 1 Custodes against these guys

[@Profile__1]

Some people might say "Isn't it a bit pedantic to analyze a fight scene frame by frame when it takes place in only a few minutes?" The thing is that stunt coordinators and filmmakers ARE SUPPOSED TO DO THAT. BY THEMSELVES. They NEED to account for every single minute movement from ALL characters. That's what filmmaking is. Every single action, facial expression, etc. are ALL incredibly important to both create the action scene while simultaneously characterizing the people involved. You need to be pedantic because you need to control everything.

[@theaether3124]

tbh, i can understand the lack of blade skill I mean rey (to my knowledge) never had any learning, and idk too much about Kylo, but the guards? nah. They should have been as lethal as the imperial guard was in the EU...

[@Profile__1]

@@theaether3124 It would've been totally fine if just Rey, and kiiinda Kylo, sucked compared to the guards; only issue with that though is that Rey absolutely wrecked Kylo in the first movie. But if they both were demonstrated with bad blade skill, it would've been really cool to see how they need to team up in order to survive the onslaught of these red guards.

[@insensitive919]

All on Ruin. Ruin is an AWFUL director. Robot Head did a video where he went through every horrible decision in TLJ and it amounts to quite a bit.

[@neo-didact9285]

They probably didnt get paid enough. In that regard, I dont blame 'em.

[@theaether3124]

What could interesting is with the lack of Jedi texts, why not focus more on force abilities or fighting with the force? If the form styles of star wars are dead and now unteachable why not go back to force powers or Darth traya styled fighting

[@jsnsk101]

Stuntmen: Those idiots missed every cue, the director is going to make us do that again and again. Rian Johnsonr: Perfect!

[@justiciar1964]

Rian "Roundhead" Johnson channeling the infamous Ed Wood.

[@VeryProPlayerYesSir1122]

the imperial guards should use shields and blasters. It is more effective against lightsaber wielding force users than melee fight because lightsaber wielding force users are strongest in melee fight

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

@@VeryProPlayerYesSir1122 they should have vented the air of the room and watch the 2 asphyxiate while chuckling in their helmets that do have short term life support, because they needed tobbe ready to counter gas attacks. lol

[@randomusername3445]

Worse part is they probably facepalmed even harder for going with that take.

[@roman09121997]

@@VeryProPlayerYesSir1122 then, not blasters, shotguns!) Nice buckshot and heavy kortosis slugs!) Sorry for my English.

[@lukaviwifalc1119]

The prequels are laughing in the distance.

[@technounionrepresentative4274]

The prequels may have been bad But they had the absolute best Fight scenes in the searies

[@lukaviwifalc1119]

turkey archer Disagree on them being bad, but I’ll always agree on the choreography being spectacular.

[@ChanceTM]

The Prequel Trilogy: Hold my beer.

[@aramere3650]

Idk there was a lot of superfluous spinning, flipping and twirling in the prequels too.

[@noobiusmaximus6314]

I think George Lucas paid these directors to make astonishingly awful films so that his prequel trilogy looks godly in comparison

[@thetruth45678]

This is exactly the same sort of fight choreography you would have if professional stuntmen had to pretend to lose to unreshearsed children making stuff up as they go.

[@georgelucas9699]

26:55 This is also a problem for Rey in EA-Battlefront 2. She has a lightsaber that can cut through basically anything, but most of her attacks seem to be punches or kicks, while holding the weapon off to the side.

[@darthgames3]

Atleast it's accurate to the source material

[@crocodilerock4662]

Rey actually deals one of the weakest lightsaber hits in the game, but it’s to compensate for her crazy powerful force attacks. She literally had an attack that reverses the opponents controls

[@void7080]

They wanted to same money by not animating that arm.

[@grantgregory4034]

Luke, obi wan, and Rey all have kicks thrown into their spam combos, but it does the same damage I believe

[@danielw2358]

Rey: I don't need training. I figured if I wildly swing my lightsaber enough I'll eventually hit the enemy. Plot armor will keep me alive anyway

[@TeemoForLife]

Hopefully they just keep spinning and retreat 5m back after a tiny tap Complete bots.

[@icthulu]

No one can penetrate plot armor of that magnitude!

[@azureangel8217]

Not only that. She's literally perfect at everything

[@kingofmystery1135]

@@azureangel8217 I think you mean "perfect" instead of perfect.

[@VM-bx8jn]

"It looks nice if you're not paying attention..." The new Star Wars movies summarized in one line

[@amisfitpuivk]

The whole movie TLJ was great for me... until I thought, and payed attention. Then it was the worst. The throne room was the last bastion of good content, and now Shad has taken that from me too!

[@AndresGonzalez-wc3ek]

@Christopher Marloweand the last jedi is great if you cover your ears and eyes

[@schmurble2254]

Well I mean, it’s not just new Starwars, it’s all Star Wars. Don’t get me wrong, I love pretty much all Star Wars, but all fight scenes in the series are pretty flawed haha. One example, the Darth Maul fight scene; it looks really good when it all flows together, but if you break it down scene by scene none of the swings would actually hit, they’re always a bit short of the mark, or there is a bunch of needless twirls, or they aim both aim for the lightsabers rather than the body, etc. Buuuut... I still think the Maul fight is a good fight, because it’s cool, and really Star Wars is a silly space opera, and at the end of the day it’s still impressive cinema.

[@aboldone3991]

I love prequels but i think this sentence perfectly summarizes them too

[@knightghost1782]

Yup

[@wrayday7149]

Missing dagger isn't the only fatal problem. Look where his other dagger is. There is exactly nothing stopping him from twisting his wrist down and bringing that dagger right into Reys head.

[@Sucram97]

13:28 Another funny point about this whole “oh no he’s pulling my sword” thing would be the fact that if the guard just let go of his whip or merely stepped forward suddenly Rey since she’s pulling her lightsaber towards herself with great force she would accidentally kill herself with a slap to the face with the lightsaber

[@marley7868]

or he could try to disarm her by yunno whipping in directions you weigh more than her so put your back into it and whip to her left if you disarm her good if you don't you should have taken her off balance with your whip range is your friend

[@ricofed439]

Not to mention she could have just turned the saber off and on quickly to get free.

[@dinoaurus1]

@@ricofed439 thats supposedly unsportsmanlike or something which i find rather odd since its a fight to the death

[@anotherordinaryfellow6935]

​@@ricofed439 Its a forbidden technique, Jedi and Sith consider it Dangerous and Cowardice which is bullshit.

[@sadies8100]

​@anotherordinaryfellow6935 yeah, but rey's barely gotten any training atp, and I doubt Luke taught her that it's dishonorable to turn her lightsaber off in a fight. Out of universe, of course, she doesn't because the fight was badly choreographed and executed worse.

[@HebaruSan]

I feel like the first fifteen times they tried to film this, the stunt men kept accidentally "killing" Rey and Kylo, and the director chewed them out and told them to act like complete stooges.

[@BaldorfBreakdowns]

I seriously doubt they got anywhere near 15 takes...

[@mattbright2638]

@@BaldorfBreakdowns I'm with you, which is absolutely mind boggling. How can you have a movie in the biggest franchise in history with millions of dollars invested and not have the fight choreography down? You would think they would have done this 1,000 times until it was second nature, especially considering it's the only big melee in the whole movie. I guess this shows Rian Johnson's ineptitude at filming action, since he obviously watched this take and went "yeah, looks great". Meanwhile, all the stunt men are behind those red masks rolling their eyes so hard that they threaten to come out of their heads

[@liem11]

Oh come on. Its Star Wars, the bad guys are supposed to be so incompetent that you wonder how they managed to win in the first place.

[@BaldorfBreakdowns]

@@liem11 Yeah, I always wondered how Vader along with Emporer Palpatine, the two most powerful sith lords, came to power...they should really explain that, since they come off as complete, incompetant morons...

[@LoneWolf-xe6ye]

@@BaldorfBreakdowns You know there is this thing called the prequels right?

[@qui-gone]

Obi Wan: "An elegant weapon for a more civilised age" Rey (swinging it like a butterfly net): "RRRAAAARRRRRRR" Shad, Dooku and Maul: Become one with the Force

[@dabuss55]

Palpatine swung his shit exactly like Rey. Omg you anti sequel trilogy people are so fucking stupid.

[@mamacoloco7285]

@@dabuss55 Uh... Because his fighting style was wild, erratic and vicious due to him feeding from anger?

[@whysocareless2926]

At least palpatine we see as an excellent duelist capable of killing Jedi masters in seconds in duels and none of his swings were useless unlike rey’s

[@dabuss55]

@@mamacoloco7285 uhhh yeah. Your point?

[@5H4D0W-TP]

@@dabuss55 So Rey is a Sith.

[@kaimarquez8046]

Some people tried to say that the prequels if you slowed it down probably had problems just like this fight scene, I love that shad totally disproves it.

[@johnmarc1986]

Watch the fight between qui-gon, Obi-Wan and Darth Maul. Or Dooku vs Anakin, or Palpatine vs those jedi masters that just stood there and let themselves get killed. There are some great duels in the prequels, but a lot that suffer the same issues shown here. A lot of it comes down to time and what you need to serve the story. This scene would have been better from a choreography standpoint if they just used stunt doubles, but it serves the story better to actually see the actors.

[@koreancowboy42]

@@johnmarc1986 your comparing old star wars to something that people were excited and the built up to a dumb fight scene........ Atleast the Palpatine and Mace Windo. Was a decent fight scene, the other Jedi masters weren't expecting that Darth Sidious was gonna immediately be the first to attack. Also had they not make the scene to show how powerful Darth Sidious was. It'd be a joke that Darth Sidious the most powerful Sith lord be having trouble with jedi masters. Also we don't even know what kind of jedi masters we're they. We're they medium? Intermediate ? Or what not?

[@night1952]

@@koreancowboy42 So a bunch of masters understimated a menace and got destroyed in seconds, that still makes them losers.

[@luckierloser]

@@koreancowboy42 mace vs palpi was a mess. Because ian mcdiarmid had never trained for the choreography and it shows.

[@sentinal_entity]

@@johnmarc1986 Maul vs Qui-gon and Obi-Wan is one of the best duels in the saga BECAUSE of how well choreographed it was. It was one of the instances where all combatants genuinely looked as if trying to kill or incapacitate. Compare it to a lot of older duels in fencing films involving 2v1s and you'll see what I mean. Also it made sense why Palpatine made those masters look like utter noobs, as it was explained that 1) he and mace were just that disgusting and on another level than the rest and 2) he utilized force scream and was said to blitz those masters while they were stunned. There's no explanation for the shitty choreography seen in this fight though and it's easily the worst in the saga. When you have **weapons** appearing and randomly disappearing mid fight it's not much of a competition

[@lalkiran1950]

This fight is so cute That even Anakin will slaughter these guards without even damn about what he thinks

[@theendersmirk5851]

Even Luke, who barely ever uses a lightsaber even vaguely lethally, would turn them into paper dolls. They'd look even worse than the Death Bots from the Mandalorian.

[@ttry1152]

@@theendersmirk5851 a basic blaster firing 1shot per second could wreck the dumb fricks

[@neor1600]

B1 Battle droids might even kill a few of them lmfao

[@ttry1152]

@@neor1600 b1 a wayward bandit crew would

[@Jack-kx5rf]

In the movie when Anakin was fighting in a 2v1 against one of the best lightsaber duelists outside the big 3 (Obi-Wan, Mace, Yoda) single-handed whilst barely trying because he was too busy using his left hand to strangle a 3rd to death. It really puts into perspective how bad of lightsabre duelists everyone in this fight is.

[@kostasastro]

Snoke: What is your experience? Imperial Guards: Well, we were members of the Imperial Ballet.... Snoke: YOU'RE HIRED, you are my new imperial guards. Imperial Guards: ??????

[@AnhHoang-cx8es]

imo, This fight was as bad as the Sand Snakes fight in GoT

[@Muck006]

That was the perfect hire ... for that "throne room", which looks like it was used for a 50s dance movie and Fred Astaire only just left the stage.

[@pRahvi0]

@@Muck006 The guards probably came with the room when Snoke bought it.

[@Muck006]

@@pRahvi0 Maybe Snoke was like "the son" from this historic document: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l3_EiZeCjNlkbaM

[@thunderdrae7749]

The most hilarious thing about that "Whip wrapped around the lightsaber" scene, she could've just, you know. *Turned off the lightsaber to free it, then turn it back on a second later.*

[@chrisw3164]

And even if that wouldnt be a thing she couldve move the saber by 90 degrees and win instantly like he told us

[@Armand7734]

Turning the lightsaber off an on during a strike could have been a gamechanger from the beginning of Star Wars. "Oh, you're raising your lightsaber to parry my strike? Well guess what, I turn mine of the second it would touch yours and turn it on again directly afterwards..."

[@kurokasteele4830]

Though in lightsaber vs lightsaber, the other opponent is just as able to do that. I believe there are some accounts (obviously fictional, but "real" fictional) accounts of a few styles of lightsaber fighting, one of which uses that. However, I think a possible explanation for why they don't is the relative risk. Depending on how the opponent is trained, they may not be thinking of, or potentially even know of those techniques. Or they're trained in it themselves too, and know to be wary of it anyways. There's also the possible (Though unlikely considering, you know, the sith) idea that the jedi don't do it on a concept of honor. Or, any sufficiently trained lightsaber wielder would be confident enough that they can win without attempting a double-edged maneuver like turning the lightsaber off and on again.

[@alexandermontejo447]

@@kurokasteele4830 well the pretorian guards werent using lightsabers.

[@kurokasteele4830]

@@alexandermontejo447 Yeah, I was replying more to what AAvantasia. Though to a point it still stands, even if they're not lightsabers it would take a supreme level of focus, practice, or skill, to be able to safely do a bypass thing like that. Because while you bypass their guard, there is the whole aspect of (most) blocks being active, and usually basically an attack in their own right.

[@Firepup740]

Rey: does a pathetic attempt at a flourish. Any idiot with a blaster/slugthrower: *Indiana Jones intensifies*

[@uchihaitachi181]

If only there was a mystical power Rey and Ren could have used during this fight for some of the most fantastical parts of the fight. Like disarming, pushing or pulling their opponents off balance or performing feats of acrobatics. Like, some sort of energy, an external Force if you will.

[@smellme6313]

Crazy talk

[@ALJ9000]

Absolutely ludicrous

[@luckybynn5788]

"Lightsaber tech support, how may I help you?" "Hi, someone seems to have wrapped a weird whip thing around my lightsaber blade and it is stuck like you wouldn't believe." "Have you tried turning it off and on again?"

[@g3vvn630]

*mind blowing move*

[@raynmanshorts9275]

That was my first thought.

[@Mofriese]

Oof thats brutal..

[@steveisthecommissar4013]

Raynman Gaming ya it’s not rocket science That’s not an insult towards you

[@ArchangelExile]

...

[@swiftersunite]

I refuse to believe this was choreographed, it looks like when me and my friends used to role play sword fight in middle school

[@AstralBelt]

nah real play swordfighting is a lot better than this, because at least I always tried to land my hit on my friends

[@Ostentatiousnessness]

Astral Belt For... realism... sure, let’s go with that.

[@FBI-ju5no]

Pft, me and my friends were EPIC in comparison to this trash.

[@tonyluong6732]

Doubt it I trust you and your childhood freinds knew that you had to hit the person with a sword to kill them

[@FBI-ju5no]

@@tonyluong6732 Just about everyone knows that, and it didn't stop us.

[@GalakStari]

9:24-9:25 You can see Finn’s face for a split-second. He’s always watching.

[@hay6444]

Why is that

[@XenomorphFan]

He’s patiently waiting for his cue to yell “REY!!!”

[@SaltyWinchester]

Since I have never seen a sword master who trained Daisy and Adam, like Nick Gillard trained Ewan and Hayden for the prequels, I am 100% sure that Rian Johnson is responsible for this mess of a fight choreography.

[@ordoabchao6747]

Everyone in this fight: "I'll try spinning, that's a good trick"

[@scottrauch1261]

Praetorian guard instructor: why do I sence that we've picked up more pathetic lifeforms?

[@metalmugen]

The spinning is not even cool looking like when Darth Maul did it, it looks so clumsy and slow lol.

[@scottrauch1261]

@@metalmugen darth maul was fighting 2 opponents and was using a double bladed lightsaber, even at a half spin he is already engaging with his adversary again. Also its constantly moving, and well choreographed.

[@patjenkins3032]

I Said this out loud as I was watching. My inner bully: NERD!!!

[@alexkuhn5188]

metalmugen Darth Maul was a badass of the highest degree. He had what was in my opinion the Best lightsaber, if he had enough skill he could be constantly a threat. His double bladed lightsaber can activate the 2 blades individually of each other, this ability of his lightsaber makes it much more dangerous to his opponents.

[@vvm7792]

Lightsaber combat has 7 forms and let just say legit none of them were used

[@vereinigtekonigreicheoster35]

No all of them were used at once and just like mixing all the colors together, you end up with a poop brown color

[@halcyoned]

this is laser sword fighting. Lightsaber combat is not this uncivilized

[@donutboi467]

tbh trying to find form usage in the movies is pretty damn hard, even in the more choreographed prequels. Obi-Wan is supposed to use form three, and anakin form five, yet in their fight they fight identically

[@legg8866]

@@donutboi467 actually anakin definitely fights much more aggressively and Obi-Wan much more defensively, unless you are talking about episode 1 where Obi-Wan and qui-gon use a different style (I think form 1?) Which is just basic attack and defense.

[@nekrosprime8415]

@@legg8866 Form 4 Ataru, more acrobatic and focused on attacking and defending while moving. After Qui-gon's death, Obi-wan switches to form 3 soresu because he believes that Soresu would have saved Qui-gon

[@Sniper0Spike]

"Look at is face. In this frame right here, Kylo is choking himself" Me: watching the edgelord fight Me *shrug* "Makes sense to me"

[@prathamgupta1653]

I did that exact same Rey flourish when I was 10 years old and playing with lightsabers. Good job choreographer!

[@Vladislav888]

Ditto, I did it because if taw featured in KotOR.

[@BalrogUdun]

The old republic trailers have more cohesive swordsmanship than this scene.

[@amisfitpuivk]

It will be a long time before live action ever trumps Clone Wars/swtor cinematics. Maul in Phantom Menace was cool at first too (when I was 14) now it just looks like choreography. Seeing Mace and Palps as intended in Clone Wars blew my mind; it was hard to watch two senior citizens do it for real in the movie lol

[@nutellaninja4667]

Yep. Honestly, the Old Republic trailers have more cohesive everything than this nonsense. Story, action, characters, everything.

[@schmurble2254]

That’s mostly because animated fight scenes are easier to choreograph than irl fights. After all, in animation you can precisely control every aspect of every single character, every single weapon, blaster bolt, environmental hazard etc; everything is artfully placed and it’s beautifully precise. By contrast, live action fights are harder to choreograph, because it’s not like the director can just pick up one of the actors and move them forward a few pixels on the z axis, and then extrude the actors arms just a liiittttlleee longer to make the pose looker more elegant or something. If one of your actors fucks up the scene, you have to start _all over,_ so as a result live action is a bit more haphazard and care free. Personally, I quite like it. It’s like big, bold fresco painting- it’s all over the place, it’s colourful, the camera moves really nicely to put everything together. It isn’t the precision of an animated trailer, but it’s still artistically interesting in its own way. In a technical sense though, this fight scene is very ineffectual and inaccurate haha.

[@didimean]

They also tell a more cohesive and emotional story in 5 minutes then any of the new Disney movies have been able to do in 2+ hour runtimes

[@darthplagueis13]

@@amisfitpuivk Considering the Maul fight was literally choreographed with three actors actually doing the stuff and only few additional effects being added in the post production it's actually very impressive. Like, you can make an animated character do whatever you want but that kind of stuff is incredibly demanding for real actors and unless you happen to be a professional sportsman I doubt you could actually sustain the pace even remotely if you tried to do it and instead just run out of breath within a minute or two.

[@nadavmoran]

They fight so badly because they are dizzy from all this spins

[@jaxxonad619]

Kind of a self defeating martial art... XD

[@baradaniel6177]

It's a good trick.

[@hanshotlast]

I’ll try spinning that’s a good trick!

[@darthambystoma1038]

IlL TrY SpINniNg THats A gOod TriCK

[@volksdude1970]

After watching your breakdown of this fight... I'm half wondering if the entire fight scene was filmed in just one take without any practice or training beforehand. Or any re-takes either.

[@anguseberhard8095]

@RetroACE135 probably was filmed once you know

[@Foobie07]

It had to have been filmed in one take because they would have had to reset the burning red curtain every time and I can imagine that would be annoying.

[@noahlovotti7722]

@@Foobie07 that's all probably just vfx, otherwise it's a hazard

[@MediumRareOpinions]

Considering old "one draft Johnson" it would not surprise me.

[@zaffarismail1508]

Shad: you don't present your hand to your opponent Obi-Wan literally every time he assumes form III: Say what now?

[@dd11111]

Perhaps it's got something to do with the use of force powers. Like a "force guard" ready to hurl things at the opponemt from around the room. (Not that Obi-Wan ever fights like that. So....) BUT then again we have seen Vader pull things off of walls and chuck them at luke without even looking.

[@zaffarismail1508]

@@dd11111 good old obi is flexing. Like, "see anakin, I'm holding out my hand to them and they still can't chop it off. You such a noob."

[@COOLSAUCE21]

That's a pose.. kind of asking the opponent to attack, when they're far away

[@pedrovilasgomes9144]

@@COOLSAUCE21 I think so as well, because the main weakness of form 3 was the poor offensive capabilities, so provoking the opponent to start the fight makes sense

[@naedanger123]

Tbf he only does it when opponents are a decent distance from him, so it’s most likely a taunting gesture. Getting his opponent to start a fierce but tiring attack would fit with his style perfectly.

[@Nesseight]

41:35 "The red guard kind of forgot that he was dual-wielding" - David Benioff

[@Person01234]

He forgot so hard that it became reality. Star Wars is 40k universe confirmed.

[@SirDenzington89]

Underrated comment ser

[@krieghart5515]

It was a special ability, and he only had enough experience points to use it for 90 seconds.

[@amisfitpuivk]

Rey kindof forgot about training, but the training certainly didn’t forget about her. _flashback to Rey saying ‘I need training. Train me, Luke. Hey L U K E! DID I MENTION I NEED TRAINING?! Remember me to train later!’_

[@bastionboi6552]

Best choreography in this video: Your 1 year old son.

[@Kaasga]

So true haha

[@nicholasleclerc1583]

At least it made sense

[@Venator_K]

@El Gusanillo Del Juego Agreed, little Guts!

[@chrisrobinson-cj6tq]

Agreed! That fight is also better than the duel in A New Hope haha

[@jackwhite2654]

I got really emotionally invested when the one guard tried to show off his cool spin... I bet he spent a lot of time practicing it.

[@Eclipse-mf6hc]

10:40 Disney: “May we present the newest Force ability; Force elbow!”

[@nasserfirelordarts6574]

Shad facts: shad hated this fight scene so much, he recreated a version of it using all of his fingers for fighters, and his mouth for sfx, it was still way better than the original

[@DbladeMedic]

That reminds me of thumb wars that paroday of a new hope

[@ZachSeineVideos]

Rian Johnson to the stuntmen: "Try spinning, that's a good trick."

[@thatoneguythatsalwaysonlin2770]

Stuntman:" I have a bad feeling about this".

[@pinkspider28]

Are you an angel?

[@pain002]

Shadiversity: "this is where the fun begins"

[@oravabdul914]

To be honest, if rey and kylo just used the force, most of these problems would have been solved. Especially, because the opponents aren't even force users

[@holdencross5904]

20:05 Why does that guy DROP HIS WEAPON?!?! There is very little force behind that block that I don't think these guards would be disarmed by such a strike. Even then, why doesn't he quickly backpeddle? These are trained soldiers, no?

[@ThePigeon5734]

If I ever make a film with swords, I can: A. never let Shad see it B. Learn from Shad C. Hire Shad as head of swords

[@matthewmuir8884]

I'd pick options b and c in a heartbeat, while also possibly bringing Scholagladiatoria in as well as a consultant.

[@ThePigeon5734]

Shad's son as the evil villain who is an expert with all forms of swordplay

[@TheJoker-qo4fg]

Cyrus Wolfe agree

[@jamesbearden3468]

C! Final answer!

[@speciallasagna8521]

To be safe, just cast Shad as every character.

[@Milkra]

Damn they really weren’t kidding when they said daisy Ridley picked up the fight scene in 2 days

[@xelloskaczor5051]

True talent doesnt need time or practice it just works

[@tommie751]

Xellos Kaczor but their was no talent ok

[@xelloskaczor5051]

@@tommie751 angry fanboy detected Daisy is perfect and her character is wonderful /s

[@bloodangel19]

@@xelloskaczor5051 Agree to disagree

[@joshua8235]

@@xelloskaczor5051 he is just baiting guys just ignore him ...

[@lonestoner8297]

I love hearing how people think this is such an epic fight lol. Thank you Shad. 8:45 The light diet killed me lol not as much as it did Snoke though

[@TheSCPStudio]

I love hearing people cope with their hate for Disney by pretending this stuff is unique to this one scene and doesn't happen in every fight in SW.

[@B3an01]

@@TheSCPStudio yea man i remember when they edited out obi wans lightsaber in anakin vs obi wan 100% and when maul threw his lightsaber away so obi wan can slice him on naboo in phantom menace also missing the enemy on purpose so they dont need to block thats a good trick

[@sandman5522]

Idea scenario in the universe where Rey is not a lazily written Mary Sue: Rey is struggling against the last guard standing ( *as she has very minimal fighting experience and shouldn't stand a chance against Elite Guards* ), and he knocks the lightsaber out of her hand. Before he is about to finish off Rey, he stops, drops his weapon, and puts his hands to his neck. The camera cuts to Kylo's extended hand, using the force choke for the first time on camera, like his grandfather before him ( *Darth Side theme plays* ). Even Rey is terrified. The guys neck snaps, and he falls dead. Now THAT would be an awesome scene

[@martynkalendar]

Shad: I'm calling them the imperial guard **angry 40k noises**

[@didierpelupessy]

Ours is beter. They hit 50% of the time.

[@tuhkakasa1917]

ORK BOYZ SOLVE THAHZ THAT WITHZ MORE DAKKA

[@ricardodemarco3486]

@@tuhkakasa1917 Shhh! Chut up, ye dumy! No uze more dakka, ye haf to uze BIGGA DAKKA! AND PAINT DA GUNZ IN YELLOU FOR MORE KABOON! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

[@jamesknighton4489]

martyn kalendar Orks have a better time at fight and they are retarded

[@bruvamichal7437]

some warhammer fantasy video game trailers have cool sword fighting... maybe next time

[@yowassup4205]

"my one year old son could hit this" - Shad the PE teacher, 2019

[@PrincessSixThirteen]

With video proof!

[@aurex8937]

He would have been a better casting choice for child Anakin :D

[@CJGilliam]

The stuntmen are trying to get killed so they can get out of this horrible fight sequence. "No! I do not want my name in the credits. For any of this. Matter of fact, can I get paid in cash?"

[@fireironthesecond2909]

49:34 There’s an actual lightsaber form of combat that does this in the comics but it’s dangerous because it leaves the user vulnerable

[@izaakdonk7951]

So basically Shad could take on the guards by himself and slaughter them like Anakin slaughtering younglings.

[@theberserkerarmor6511]

Shad could take them.

[@dillonb5317]

I think any true star wars fan or a fan of anything action base could beat those "guards"

[@SydCar]

First Name Last Name Considering these “guards” seemingly do everything in their power to make sure you win, I don’t even think you need any background in action or combat to beat them... My goldfish could probably kill all these “guards.”

[@InfernosReaper]

I'm physically handicapped and could take them

[@mosimosi9829]

No, I believe, that the younglings would have been harder to kill...

[@sandeman1776]

I have a theory that might explain everything. Everyone in their Galaxy has lost their depth perception. That's why elite Imperial Stormtroopers can't shoot, everyone overswings and you have to use the Force to each your cereal. Wait! Did anyone eat anything except for blue milk, up to this point? Vitamin A deficiency? Hmmmmmm.

[@khaorix2667]

Rey had an apple with broccoli on it in Maz's cantina in The Force Awaken. I remember because it looked weird. Maybe Finn had some too, I don't remember. I'm not watching the film again just to find out.

[@Talon3000]

I mean looking at those helmets.... they can't see much.

[@MrBigCookieCrumble]

The autistic OT nerd in me just has to say: THEY MISSED ON PURPOSE THEY WERE ORDERED TO ALLOW THEM TO ESCAPE THEY EXPLAIN IT RIGHT AFTER THEY DO SO IN THE MOVIE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[@jenyates3033]

Even the targeting computers can't hit exhausts ports, and the rebel pilots don't aim directly for the target but instead do the trench run thing. No depth perception. Sketchy understanding of 3D dimensions all over.

[@hamsterinmykitchen]

Another funny thing about the kick @11:06 is that you can see Kylo's lightsaber phase through his leg at one point. I just find the idea that, had the lightsaber been real, Kylo would accidently chop his own leg off while trying to kick a guy, hilarious.

[@robdb1993]

Shad’s confused face as he acts out the correct move is hilarious

[@bliskin8847]

Hey in their defense, they couldn't see squat through those helmets. It's a miracle they didn't kill each other.

[@lavish263team5]

Well apparently the force can do anything in this timeline so maybe they have see through

[@MichaelGonzalez-hd7kk]

I was thinking more of an Iron Man HUD.

[@DazraelArianos]

Kill each other..... sounds like a good scene to save for "Spaceballs: The Search for More Money".

[@saltycandy245]

(Am aware is a joke but here I am anyways) the helmets do actually have parts that aren't covered so they can actually see

[@catwithagun7410]

Maybe that's why they spin

[@PDShadowrun]

"Lots of movement and looks interesting when you're not paying attention." Disney in a nutshell nowadays, everybody.

[@defensivekobra3873]

To be Fair, the coreography in the other movies where never super high quality ether. Remember, these are actors primaraly, not swordsmen or stuntmen

[@undertakernumberone1]

@@defensivekobra3873 Christopher Lee actually was an expert fencer.

[@defensivekobra3873]

@@undertakernumberone1 yeah, and i once was an somewhat decent fencer, but that once more has little to do with star wars swordsmanship, who has its own established rules (if i remember correctly lightsaber combat was at some point made an entirely seperate sport), shad even mentioned that in the video, these are not stuntpeople, they are actors, that's the point i am trying to make is that for what it is, it is decent. But for examples on how fencing (the sport) differs from lightsaber combat, here are a few (please do note that i might have misremebered a few of these details): - the stances, in fencing you have your torso facing away from the opponent to make your silluete smaller, in lightsaber combat they have their torso facing towards their opponent -in fencing the swordarm and your legs does most of the work delivering and deflecting attacks, while wide swinging arcs and two handed grips are more common in lightsaber combat - the movement, in the sport, movement is pretty one dimentional. You can move forwards and backwards, and that is pretty much it. In lightsaber combat on the other hand, there is often a lot more movement, jumping all over the place, using the terrain to your advantage and using the force and stuff. -If you want an full on rundown of my (petty) fencing carieer, here it is: i stopped fencing a couple of years back (when i was between 13-14 years old) and has become quite rusty since (now at barely 16 years), and i was never really the best in my group, whould always overthink, got to close to my opponent, never quite took everything seriously enough and did not always take failure well. I do still remember a bit- Life is a set of embarresments and failures and you need to live with that sometimes

[@beardedbjorn5520]

DeeperHavoc they have behind the scene footage of Ewan train with the guy that played Maul, and it’s soooooo good!

[@sembo2666]

@@defensivekobra3873 This isn't decent, no matter if they're actors or stuntmen or swordsmen, it's just a terrible fight scene. That's not their fault tho, it's the fault of the person planning this garbage pile of a fight scene.

[@IIIAnchani]

how to make this scene way better: USE THE FKIN FORCE to knock away opponents if your actor can't do the fight halfway believably.

[@ms6653]

Finally some comment mentioning fucking force. All you have to do is force push and have 1v1 action for a while and then to use force again and again. God damn, there is space magic, so use it.

[@Lordmewtwo151]

Regarding your pet peeve: While Kylo has no excuse, there might be some instances where an unarmed strike might make some amount of sense, eg, your weapon was already blocked or parried and out of position, you're using the unarmed strike as a set-up for a follow-up attack with your weapon, or your too close to use your weapon effectively (such as grappling range).

[@marley7868]

honestly kylo looks the least incompetant here he's taking breaks from a sword fight to pummel his enemy rey is just missing and her enemy is somehow failing harder

[@justinthompson6364]

Imperial Guard: *Gets the perfect opening* Filmmakers: _Swaggity swan, your weapon is gone_

[@erikcarp9359]

Malte Meyer Yes it is

[@Ramsey276one]

Malte Meyer “ English, you’re drunk. GO HOME.”

[@dolomaticus1180]

@@maltemeyer3171 It may be stupid, but English will mug your language and use what it can take :)

[@kozmnavt5158]

This entire fight is basically like the Batman or assassins creed games where the background enemies wait for you to finish off an enemy before attacking you.

[@AhsokaJackson]

I haven’t played any Creed games, but I have played two of the Arkham Batman games, and one thing about those is that other enemies will actively try to attack you while you’re focused on other ones, so you have to stay on your toes and not simply hone in on one at a time.

[@WirlWind494]

@@AhsokaJackson But in the end, it still all boils down to mashing the A button... I've always hated the ASS creed games, simply because the combat is the most boring thing I've done since playing a clicker game.

[@firstname4097]

Or in the pirates of the Caribbean game where they block 2 times and literally turn around for a couple of seconds, and make a grunting noise when you flay the poor guy...:/ The actual sword duels are really fun though to give it some credit.

[@Mr-kh7en]

@@WirlWind494 go make a better game

[@Bothandle70]

have you seen any movie where heroes gets swarmed by enemies?

[@nileshchand436]

11:40 clearly he is saving ammo

[@albertlofling7310]

the problem with laser crossguards is that kylo has it pointed at his chest at 19:38 and so if they would both just putt their entire weight into pulling on his sword they can impale him on his own weapon

[@JohnnyJP7]

The dagger just vanishing is by far my favorite stupid thing on this.

[@mrmcawesome9746]

I personally like the lightsaber being stuck on the whip and Rey moving forward towards the whip guy of her own accord.

[@NWolfsson]

Light-saber: A virtually weightfree weapon, that doesn't need strength as long as it's not blocked with another laser-type weapon, or if you try to puncture 70cm of steel. Rey: *swings like she's wielding a telephone pole*

[@xxraddude3621]

NeRethil Wolfsson you guys are ridiculous. Your like “Oh, she’s such a Mary Sue! She’s so OP!”. But when she isn’t a perfect lightsaber duelist, you’re all over her. It’s fucking ridiculous

[@NWolfsson]

@@xxraddude3621 That would be a great comeback if I was one to diss Rey because she "naturally fights like a master jedi". Which I'm not.

[@xxraddude3621]

NeRethil Wolfsson well most do. Agree to disagree I guess

[@NWolfsson]

@@xxraddude3621 Oh, I am aware. I just reacted as it seemed uncalled for to target my comment (which was more about the screen treatment of the weapon than the choreography or character's skill, btw) :)

[@xxraddude3621]

NeRethil Wolfsson ok we are cool then.

[@sarmeister1699]

I get the feeling these guys kinda just committed suicide in this scene, with everyone taking bets on who could get out of the scene fastest.

[@JanaenaeYT]

All I can hear during this breakdown of ONE SCENE in this trash heap of a film is Rian Johnson saying "I'm not hearing any good criticism of my film" on repeat in my head. xD Oh you're hearing it, you ass. You just aren't LISTENING.

[@bestnameever1850]

good critism i mean if you ignore everything bad about the last jedi its perfect i mean you only have 15 minutes of movie BUTT

[@jonservo]

This is what happens when you make your guards wear helmets they obviously can’t see out of. I’m pretty sure they are just swinging at noises

[@jonservo]

@Michael Peck they have trained in Flailing Toddler style. The first mantra of this style is, If you are always swinging you will eventually hit something lol

[@ericpraline]

Which would be pretty impressive, if the same didn’t seem to be the case with Rey and Kylo. Guess their blindfolds were invisible

[@massivetism]

Rey didn't even need to tilt her lightsaber forward when she was being pulled, all she had to do was turn it off and on again

[@VIIIaron]

should have called tech support

[@Benjamin1986980]

I think Shad's idea is better. Since his weapon is wrapped around hers in a loose whip, she has complete control of his weapon and he has no way to defend himself from a straight thrust. Turning her beam off would clear her from the bind, but it would be more advantageous to use the bind against him.

[@massivetism]

@@Benjamin1986980 true it would have given her an advantage. But yeah, I was just talking about her breaking free from the lock specifically

[@QueenAleenaFan]

Or step into being pulled and he'd get hit by the lightsaber.

[@Muck006]

At the beginning of the fight they should/could have both just thrown their lightsabers at the guards (turned on) and cut a soldier or two in half ... and then recall their blades. ZERO use of force powers in the fight ... no force push, no jumping "to gain the [legendary] high ground advantage" (because some idiot of a director had the "vision" with the shiny floor, which reduced the set to be absolutely boring and not-at-all-inside-any-futuristic-structure), ...

[@aperson806]

Re Kylo's lightsabre crossguard, that is dubious at best. When filming The Witcher, Henry Cavill said that performing all the spinny, twirly moves meant that he kept on catching his wrist on his crossguard (that's why they changed his sword from one with a horizontal crossguard to an angled one). That said, having Kylo slice off his own hand would have been so funny that it would have improved this movie immeasurably.

[@pugnippelz69]

5:34 Starting his training very early on. He will one day be an honorable knight.

[@deedlessdeity218]

"This is a new series on Shadiversity...!" Keep on...

[@ThePigeon5734]

What happened to the old ones?

[@bubblesofthecoast6393]

Guard: lets go to staff Kylo: Why’d you let go? Choke me harder daddy. Guard: What? Kylo: What?

[@alexkuhn5188]

BubbleRocket you are making it sound like Kylo is a Masochist!

[@bubblesofthecoast6393]

alex kuhn I mean, why else would he be choking himself?

[@meris8486]

@@alexkuhn5188 I mean Sith tend to go in for that

[@shwamp33]

Every guard: “ILL TRY SPINNING, THATS A GOOD TRICK”

[@jaden8811]

These guards feel like Assassin's Creed enemies, but even in Assassin's Creed two guys will attack you once in while.

[@AcidifiedMammoth]

Newer AC combat is better tho. Even still, getting the combos right in AC2, AC3(especially with animals) was difficult

[@AcidifiedMammoth]

@Ethan yeah tell that to those grenadiers since they are the only smart AI.

[@bipstymcbipste5641]

@Ethan When someone says "Grenadiers", they mean people who throw grenades. It's in the name

[@bipstymcbipste5641]

@Ethan They throw grenades and do unparryable axe swings and I've been killed by both those things so that's a fuckin' lie at the end of your comment

[@captain-chair]

George Lucas: your going to train sparing with each other until we get this fight between Obi-Wan and Anakin right. Rian Johnson: Daisy hold this light saber prop, ok, ACTION.

[@drawde_064]

Captain Chair it just shows how little Rian actually cares

[@mentaldesolation9711]

@@drawde_064 "you guys wanna try that a second time?" - "Nah"

[@drawde_064]

Mental Desolation pretty much Rian’s attitude

[@holalluis]

*Ruin Johnson

[@joedatius]

kinda sad how in the wake of the last jedi people are gonna pretend and give lucus more credit even though he's notorious for his lazy directing, not to mention that star wars was so great because of pretty much everyone that wasn't him since when he got the control he wanted he made the god awful prequals. also the fights in the prequals are as bad as anything in the last jedi

[@wrayday7149]

She dodges whip guy off the wrong leg. She spun off the leg closest to the whip so it should of hit her. She could also turn her lightsaber off to get unstuck. Basically these people don't treat lightsabers like plasma torches that need no effort required to cut with.

[@general_zeppelin1003]

this looks like a fight scene I'd have with my neighbors on my trampoline when I was 10

[@hamzishukor98]

"Is that supposed to look cool? Maybe to an untrained eye!" Me: Sweats profusely

[@spicysnowman8886]

If you've ever held a pool noodle you've done a more advanced flourish

[@Dingo-wk5ed]

Son of Dathomir I’ve defeated a samurai army with a pool noodle

[@DavidEllis94]

@@Dingo-wk5ed Pool noodles are supreme

[@LucyWest370]

@@DavidEllis94 who uses pool noodles I just use regular noodles

[@snarfymcsnarfface2323]

@@spicysnowman8886 oh duels with the bros at the pool are the best

[@MetagrossZ]

Guard: "I'll try spinning, that's a good trick."

[@gokbay3057]

Now this is duelling

[@cassiusemmanualtheyoutubep3171]

Oops

[@GriffinixWEla]

Rian Johnson: if room red and guards red, audience won't notice implausibilities!

[@tobor88]

20:00 I just realized that the guy Kylo stabs here drops his weapon for no reason just so Kylo can stab him! His weapon doesn't even hit Kylo's lightsaber on it's upswing, he clearly just tosses it aside! WHO LOOKED AT THIS SCEEN AND THOUGHT THIS WAS GOOD!? 25:00 I think I get what happened here. Before Kylo's downward slash, he had grabbed the polearm of the rightmost guard to keep him from attacking him any further. Then after he ducked the whip attack he forced the head of the polearm into the stomach of the whip guard. That's why the whip guard was on his knees for Kylo to decapitate him. Through out this entire fight the dagger guard could have killed Rey in a multitude of different ways. Rey is so bad at fighting that the stuntman literally had to try NOT to hit her. Let that sink in. 30:15 It was at this moment that I realized that the polearm guards, all of them, hold their weapons the exact same way throughout the entire fight. At no point do any of them change the way they grip their weapon. They don't change their stances and always they swing their weapon from their right. THATS WHY THEY SPIN ALL THE TIME! 32:55 How many glaives do you count in this frame? One held by the dead guy, one on the floor, one held by Kylo, and the last held by the guy he's fighting. 4 in total.... THERE WERE ONLY 3 GUYS USING GLAIVES IN THIS FIGHT! The only other guy to use a polearm like weapon in this fight other than the three with glaives is the Knife guy fighting Rey at the beginning of the fight! They literally left an extra prop on the set! 37:39 The reason why he doesn't do this is, again, he never changes the way he grips his weapon. 43:33 He didn't pull the dagger out of the way, the weapons just phased through each other! Also it looks like he was supposed to elbow her in the face but he didn't.

[@joebomb1019]

Shad: "Kill him. Kill him now." Star Wars Fighters: "I shouldn't." Shad: "DEW IT."

[@thedude3065]

fighters: no I dont think I will

[@corv3007]

Shad: “Take up a guard position. Take up a guard position now. Star Wars Fighters: “I shouldn’t.” Shad: “DEW IT.”

[@The_Chef2511]

I swear there was better choreography in The Tragedy of Darth Sand.

[@nickpickxd2138]

Shad: "Put of an actual Guard stance!" Snokes Guards: "No I wont do it!" Shad: "then you will die!"

[@darthambystoma1038]

It's not the Hollywood way