Fighting For Justice: The Philosophy of Persona 5 Royal

This video is a continuation of my philosophy series on the persona games, hopefully you guys enjoy it and feel free to let me know what you thought in the comments below as always.
#Persona, #Persona 5 Royal, #P5RAnalysis, #VideoEssay, #Persona5Anniversay

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

I watched the Anime before I started playing the game...I wished it stayed that way, because the Anime loses a lot of credibility this way, but it's still enjoyable nonetheless. To the video: It's pretty damm good. Persona 5 can be read as a critique of the justice system and how the "though of crime" attitude makes everything worse, as seen how everyone treated Akira/Ren/Joker in the beginning. Everyone assumed the worst out of him and even the people who were supposed to rehabilitate him treated him like crap.(I look at you Caroline and Justine!!) He was already sentenced to eternal damnation, had he not rebelled against the system. It shows that if people would allow rehabilitation instead of eternal doom or death(via Akechi), we would create a better society. While the Phanton Thieves stealing the hearts can come across as brainwashing, I believe that compared to the alternatives they get offered, it's the most humane one they had, because the justice system does nothing against them and even enabled such people like Shido. It's kinda hard not to think that the Phantom Thieves are heroes, but there is some shadyness to their methods that are very hard to reconcile with our idea of freedom. Yaldaboath is just the distorted fears and laziness of our species that let all injustice go, because they were afraid of the consequences of opposing it and are also getting too apathetic with the attitude of "I will follow the way and I can't do anything", when you can do something, even if it's little like helping charities to get their funds to help children or transgender people or just helping the climate. So the message of the game is: Do something, even if it's little, because if not, you let something bad happening, but if you did something, at least you tried and that is more admirable than death/apathy. There is another video made by Rutgo, where he goes into detail how the justice system in America fails and how Persona 5 plays into this, I can link it, if you like it?

[@ordinaryunits4341]

I think that video on the criminal justice system in the U.S. would definitely be an interesting reading on the story of Persona 5 so if you'd like to link it I'd appreciate it. Thanks for leaving your thoughtful comment and I'm glad that you liked the video!

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

@@ordinaryunits4341 kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5KWYmlpqJ6HpZY Here it is, have fun!!!

[@RevaliHeeHo]

Your videos are amazing man, thanks for making them.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Thank you so much, I'm glad that you enjoy them!

[@stitchfan93]

My own analysis by applying Emile Durkheim and Robert Merton's Strain theory: Deviance is needed as 1) Deviance challenges the perspective and thoughts of the general population, leading to social change by pointing out a flaw in society. 2) Deviant acts may support existing social norms and beliefs by evoking the population to discipline the actors. 3) Reactions to deviant activity could increase camaraderie and social support among the population affected by the activity. Innovation: individuals who accept and value the society's goals, but reject the accepted means to achieve the goal. These people accept the goals, but create their own unapproved means for achieving them, usually because they do not have access to the institutional means. Apologies if I'm wrong

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Not at all! I really enjoyed your analysis here. I think this account of deviancy/creativity has a lot of value in how we interpret society and is a component of the narrative of persona 5. The phantom thieves definitely believe in the good of normal Japanese society, but as you deftly pointed out, they see the failings of the current institutions and practices. Thank you for your comment! It made me appreciate P5 Royal's story a little bit more

[@joaocisne556]

will you talk about Maruki and Yoshizawa?

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Yes, I'll probably make a video talking more about Yoshizawa, but I already made a video on Maruki a while back, so I might not make a new one on him for a while.

[@joaocisne556]

@@ordinaryunits4341 I forgot about the Maruki video, my mistake

[@mobiusloop339]

Excellent video as always. Also didn't know about Gnosticism until this video. Very interesting belief system.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Thanks! I'm glad that you learned something from it.

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

Gnostic is a lot more complex and has many other traditions that were not mentioned in this video. The most commonly known is that there is the Demiurge, the old Testament god who created this world. He is evil and God sent Christ to liberate humanity from his grasp. Demiurge was created by God's feminine counterpart Sophia, who wanted to concieve a being without the help of God and thus the Demiurge was evil. The Demiurge also has 3 different names, sort of a trinity if you so like: Yaldaboath,the Child of Chaos Saklas, the fool and Samael, God of the blind. It's pretty interesting but IMO I prefer the mainstream christian theology, because it makes more sense to me.

[@marklouiegarcia2588]

Honestly, P5/P5R is my least Favourite but I understand the Message about this Game. My most least favourite is "The Change of Hearts". There is a part of me that wishes is that somehow the Phantom Thieves would find another way of Changing Hearts but without really Changing Hearts. What I mean here is Changing Hearts via Absoute Exposure (aka by gathering Info of their Targets both by Metaverse & Real World means). By doing so, the P. Thieves don't steal the Treasure within People's Hearts, rather what they steal is the Actual Identity of their Targets (which is via Absolute Exposure which I mentioned earlier) which in turn may or may not Change the Said Target not unless they willingly do so... What happens here is what the P. Thieves steal here are things that made these People Bad or Corrupt in the 1st Place. What steal is not in the Hearts within the Metaverse, rather thet steal their Targets Fame, Status, Power, Authority & Rights in Society via said Absolute Exposure. Now for Narrative Reasons, I would still keep the Change of Hearts that P5 has been doing with Main Antagonists but doing the other "Change of Hearts" on Confidants or Side Missions which shows the P. Thieves their Attempt to not really Change Hearts in the Metaverse not unless Absolutely Necessary...

[@ordinaryunits4341]

I totally get where you're coming from. I'm also uneasy with the concept of forcing people to change their hearts and despite akechi's failings he made good points on the nature of changing hearts. Really I feel like when the phantom thieves were changing hearts they were simply taking away their desires to act placing them back under Yaldabaoth's prison of regression. This is why I always felt better when the phantom thieves didn't steal sae's treasure instead redirecting her desires towards justice.

[@marklouiegarcia2588]

@@ordinaryunits4341 It's been one of Struggles with liking the Narrative of this Game, especially in how most of the Fandom find it ok for the Phantom Thieves to do so becuz it means to save Society when for me (& few others) don't see it as a Great Way to help Humanity. Overall, as long as you get the Message of P5 or any of the Persona Games, you'll find that they have Great Stories to share.

[@marklouiegarcia2588]

Wellin regards about Joker & Akechi having the Same Power, aka Wildcard, I personally don't Believe Akechi is a Wildcard due to my Experience with the Series & here are the Reasons Why (some spoilers): 1. The Thieves Den is not something to be really considered Canon. For the most Part, it's a Ineractive Gallery of but in terms to talking to Characters it's more of a "What if Secenario" for Interactions. 2. Let's say that the Interactions are Canon, Akechi quickly jokes about it to Yusuke about having the Wildcard. In this Scenario, it's more of a Competitive Mentality & Spirit that Akechi has to Joker becuz like any Rivalry, a Rival would claim to do, to be equal or better than his/her own Rival. 3. The Power of the Wildcard can be sensed by others who have the Power & the Velvet Attendants. This is seen throughout PQ & Q2 & P4 Arena & A. Ultimax. If Akechi is really a Wildcard himself, other Wildcards & especially the V. Attendants would have sensed him to have such Power. Now most of may say becuz of his Power & Status of Trickster like Joker or becuz of his Persona Loki (the Trickster God) he was able to keep his Wildcard Power hidden. Well No. 1st off, the idea of Trickster for Akechi is not about Power but more about Character & 2nd, it's not becuz of his Persona Loki, anybody can trick anyone, regardless of their Persona (Example is Adachi who has Magatsu Izanagi however he is Trickster in terms of Character). However let's say that it is becuz of Akechi's Power of being Trickster or becuz of his Persona Loki, the V. Attendants would sensed Akechi to be similar to other Wildcards or have the Potential to be one (like Sho in P4 A.Ultimax) becuz to them, they are really powerful enough to sense anyone's Power & Potential... 4. In Modern Persona (3-5) all Wildcards initially have the Fool Arcana or will change to the Fool Arcana (seen in the P3 the Answer with Aigis & in P4 Arena with Elizabeth). So in this case, Akechi should have change his Arcana to the Fool however this doesn't happen... 5. Loki is technically more of a 2nd Evolution of his Persona Robin hood rather than being a 2nd Persona. Loki is technically Akechi's Strongest Persona becuz he is the Evolved form Robin Hood & besides, Akechi would have equally used both Robin Hood & Loki, especially in the 3rd Sem but like it's proven, he does not... This all the more proves that Akechi is no different from the Persona Evolution Process of the Phantom Thieves. Why? Becuz if Robin Hood & Loki were actually 2 different Personas, he would've used them by really changing them throughout his whole Fight, not by simply using 1 for the 1st stage & the other for the 2nd stage becuz practically it's really stupid. & like I said before, this also would've been more useful in the 3rd Sem but it never happened, Akechi only used Loki. In this case, Akechi is a Users who can control his Persona's Evolution due to how long he has been a Persona User. & to note, all Phantom Thieves share similar Evolution Aspect to Akechi, where it starts from a Mythical or Historical Hero to Gods or other Religious Beings based in Legends (examples are Ryuji from Captain Kidd to Sun Wukong, Morgana from Zorro to Mercury or Yusuke from Goemon to Susano'o). This all the more proven in the 3rd Sem, where all the Phantom Thieves (except Joker) have their 3rd Evolved Personas which is a Fusion of their 1st & 2nd Evolved Personas . The other thing to note here is that Joker would've taught Akechi how him how to be Wildcard or have Lavenza & Igor to make him have access to V. Room during the 3rd Sem but as we know, that didn't happen... 6. You may say that "if it weren't for Yaldabaoth's Intervention, Akechi could've been a actual Guest in the V. Room", however this is not the Case. Throughout all Persona, Philemon (1-2) and his Servant Igor (3-5) choose those who have Potential & Growth to be Wildcards. So this isn't about Yaldabaoth's Intervention but more on who Philemon or Igor chosen. This is similar in P4, where Izanami chose Adachi, Nanatame & Yu to be part of her Game by awakening their Powers of summoning Personas & to enter the TV World but it's Igor who chooses who Yu to be a Wildcard based by their Growth & Potential. & to note, even throughout the 3rd Sem in P5R, Igor nor Lavenza ever acknowledge Akechi to be a Guest to V. Room nor did they make him a Guest to the V. Room, which also means not acknowledging him to be a Wildcard like Joker... 7. Also in "Implying", it's been more like by the Phantom Thieves Perspective. They did to "See to believe" Mentality when in Fact that Lavenza only said that Joker & Akechi were only Representatives in Yaldabaoth's Game, not about Joker & Akechi being both Wildcards...

[@ordinaryunits4341]

You're absolutely right. I think I wasn't as clear as I should've been within my video because I didn't mean to assert that akechi was a wildcard like joker. Rather when I said that they shared the same power I was simply referring to their ability to access the metaverse. From this fundamental power that is primarily given to joker and akechi, they are able to make their respective choices within the game. Thanks for the really thoughful comment!

[@marklouiegarcia2588]

@@ordinaryunits4341 No worries & I'm glad to help. However I would to say that it's been a common misunderstanding in the Fandom with mostly believing that Akechi is a Wildcard mostly becuz. However by this logic, Characters like Adachi & Nanatame (from P4) would also be Wildcards becuz they were given the "Same" Powers like Yu. The other reason why it's believed that Akechi is Wildcard is becuz he is able to summon to Personas (Robin Hood & Loki) which is a Unique ability to Wildcards to summon multiple Personas however I (& a Minority) don't see this a Actual Confirmation. (& which I explained already in my 1st comment) Lastly, the reason it's believed that Akechi is a Wildcard is becuz the Phantom Thieves "saw" him summon Loki & implied that he is the Same as Joker. For me, the Scene became more like a "To See is to Believe" Scenario which in this case, is invalid Evidence becuz there is more to Consider in the said Scene. It doesn't help either for "Implying" becuz the Phantom Thieves are giving Speculation, not Proof... However the Flaw of this Logic is that if Loki is a 2nd Persona then other Phantom Thieves are also Wildcards becuz they too have a 2nd Persona (Example: Morgana's 1st Persona is Zorro then his 2nd is Mercury)... However, I would like to say that Akechi is one of Few with the Potential to be a Wildcard becuz of Certain Characteristics he commonly Shares with Joker. Another with Potential to be a Wildcard is Adachi due to similarities he has with Yu & the Fact that Adachi is the Fool (Jester) & ha the Ability to change his Arcana (Hunger)

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

I posted it already, but here is the video to the justice system of the U.S and how it connects to Persona 5: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5KWYmlpqJ6HpZY

[@matthewmacaballug5151]

Got to P3 yet?