How Persona 5 Royal Teaches Us To Find Meaning in Suffering

[@isapu1948]

4:36 this is where I disagree Sumire would have improved greatly if Maruki stuck to conventional therapy, methods or used his power to inhance them rather than forging his own path. Especially since he did not actually address Sumire's core problem. Sumire was probably clinically depressed long before her sister's death. I think this is why pretending to be Kazumi didn't work.

[@kevinmay9151]

Same. I don't have any knowledge off hand but I could find tons of pysch research explaining why his methods are bad. That is contributing to a personality disorder. She was living a fragile life.

[@DullEyes100]

or brought her sister back to life. just saying...

[@isapu1948]

@@DullEyes100 That wouldn't have made her happy She'd be back to feeling inadequate in comparison, as dark as that sounds.

[@kagekun1198]

Okay, here's where the grey morality comes in. It's heavily implied that Sumire was so heavily depressed that she would have ended up catatonic like Rumi if Maruki hadn't intervened. Before P5R started, Maruki had seen the worst of what suffering can do to a person, hence his obsession in removing it from life. His actualizing Sumire into Kasumi ultimately turned into a stopgap solution which would have collapsed spectacularly. The signs were all there as "Kasumi", the sweet, polite, kind honor student faced scorn from all her peers (barring Joker and his Confidants), and they probably thought she was bat-shit crazy like signing her test papers as Kasumi and whatnot. (Which she is, unfortunately) Alongside the fact that her cognition of herself as Kasumi simply wasn't keeping up with the real world like her gymnastics performance or being much clumsier than what you'd expect an athlete to be. (Eg. her batting cage performance and the fact that Sumire is a poorer darts player than Futaba) All this would have eventually led into an ugly breakdown... if she had not met the Phantom Thieves. Ultimately, through Joker's kindness and being there for her, Sumire was finally able to come to terms with herself and accept Kasumi's death and Sumire being herself. It wasn't easy. It was ugly at times, (like the scenes in Maruki's palace) but she did it in the end. If Maruki had never did what he did, Sumire would likely been a hollow husk of herself, just like Rumi by the time Joker transferred to Shujin Academy. That's why after all that's been said and done, Sumire still appreciates Maruki for what he did, because he kept her going, just for a little while, so that she could meet Joker, which helped her to really heal.

[@danielemanicardi7889]

@@kagekun1198 Very interesting analysis, excellent i would say. It resumes the reasons why this new ending is so rich: there's no villain nor a-priori-wrong ideologies, both the Phantom Thieves' and Maruki's represent a valid point of view about living

[@daartz9100]

If you think of taking maruki's way just think of Edward Elric last quote " There's no such thing as a painlessness lesson, they just don't exist. Sacrifices are necessary. You can't gain anything without losing something first. Although...if you can endure that pain and walk from it, you'll find that you now have a heart strong enough to overcome any obstacle. Yeah... a heart made of Fullmetal."

[@mynameisjugemu-jugemugokon3345]

This is why Fullmetal alchemist is my favorite manga

[@kashinovirus7278]

I still think murder shouldn't exist but yeah their should be a balance

[@princecharming8125]

Maruki: That's bull shit. My world would of been heaven basically, a heaven setting let's you have challenges if you want. All that other crap holding people down is removed

[@hersh1138]

@@princecharming8125 can you really call something a challenge if your chance of success is 100% just because you want it?

[@princecharming8125]

@@hersh1138 Maruki: I said a challenge if you want it. Not a challenge in sport, video games, partying, romance, if you always win

[@pressmessmorph2pc839]

Underrated

[@PlushGamer121005]

Ikr if only people saw this its good

[@TeamsonicYT]

indeed needs more support

[@zfernchimelis2726]

I agree

[@regigoogas2887]

Big fax

[@Baam1092]

true

[@mageyplss]

Maruki is a wonderfully written character, & his Confidant is not only very useful but even a little heartbreaking

[@jocelynschreppler1123]

I did not wake up this morning thinking I'd write a whole essay in the KZbin comments. I recognize that this video is meant as an analysis solely for Maruki and the third semester arc of P5R, but its structure compares it to the original game and its antagonist in a (wrongly, imo) dismissive manner. Maruki was a well done villain and I buy into this interpretation of his character, motives, and the message the game presents regarding his arc. But you open and close the topic expressing a fundamental misunderstanding of Yaldabaoth's place in this story, despite remarking on the major building blocks that form his role. From how this video explains Maruki and his role, I feel this stems from viewing the game's critiques through an individualistic lens, rather than a systemic one, the same mistake the Phantom Thieves themeselves come to realize. I believe that while Maruki's arc was smart, interesting, and a pleasure to play, it doesn't compare to the original end sequence immediately beforehand with Yaldabaoth, and that the game's core themes as recognized by this video resonate stronger with the original ending. Persona 5 focuses around "rebellion against an unjust status quo," which is something the Phantom Thieves continually grow to understand throughout the story. This is definitionally a systemic topic, and so trying to critique the game's delivery through its individual antagonists isn't only ineffective, but misses the point entirely. This is something the Phantom Thieves themselves are forced to realize as the game accelerates to its finale. The video remarks that "most of the villains in Persona 5 were generally just evil for the sake of being evil," but an analysis that stops here condenses everything revealed from the Shido's defeat onwards as "Yaldabaoth was the true baddie the whole time." If that's the only thing taken away, then I'd have to agree that Yaldabaoth was underwhelming. It's a good thing the plot's twist was so much more than that. The near-endgame sequence in the Prison of Regression and Velvet Room immediately after shows what this video's framework for analysis fails to acknowledge: that the the Thieves' reduction of the unjust status quo to individuals with malicious intent was shortsighted. The Velvet Room events specifically go multiple steps further. First, they reveal that not only was the Phantom Thieves' rebellion misdirected, but that it was actually intended by the system they wished to rebel against, the system imposed by Yaldabaoth. Second, the regathering of the team hands us the understanding necessary to move forwards, with Makoto's scene in particular hitting it home. "Victory against a single criminal is meaningless. The true enemy is society itself." Her realization that no individual person, but a system, had defined the rules and direction of her life as well as others, is what reignites her rebellion and frees her from her prison. The god she goes on to fight in the name of that rebellion was literally birthed by the masses as a whole, willingly. I find it impossible to look at the endgame of Persona 5 and walk away with the understanding that Yaldabaoth was just a pure evil twist villain, and that the adult antagonists were too flat to make up for it. Yaldabaoth was society's evils personified (heh, persona-fied). The adult antagonists were flat on their own merits, but they all lived in a system that encouraged their initially problematic behavior to flourish. Kamoshida got away with abuse because his employers were forced to only care about prestige and cover the tracks of his wake. Madarame maximized profit over talent because the art world rewarded financial connections over the art itself. Kaneshiro could only extort students because society would punish the students for falling for the trap instead of the mafia for blackmail. Okumura abused his employees because capitalism rewards that behavior. Sae prepared a false case because the beaurocracy and propagandistic pressure the she faced from the SIU offered no alternative. Shido murdered Wakaba, Okumura, and others, gaslighting their family along the way, because politics encouraged corruption and sabatoge over the honest methods of Yoshida. These antagonists then go on to play the further symbolic role of failed struggles against society when we learn how they broke free of the Prison of Regression. They wind up right back in it because they only tried to live on top of the system instead of challenge it. They were thrown back in the prison by the Thieves, whose formation and actions were the will of Yaldabaoth in the first place. Yaldabaoth is a systemic enemy, designed to be the final confrontation of heroes who wish to fight against a systemic issue. I love Maruki's role in Royal and this video has helped me solidify my understanding of it and its relation to the core game, giving me far greater joy in experiencing it. But the way he is contrasted to a reductive, dismissive representation of Yaldabaoth and the adult antagonists does the game a disservice, as well as blinds us to taking Maruki's analysis to the next step. We can't compare the starkly different buildups and executions of totalitarianism Yaldabaoth and Maruki provide. I really encourage a stronger look at Yaldabaoth and the themes of Persona 5 if we want a full understanding of how Maruki's philosophy fits into it all.

[@AlexBermann]

This is really an excellent comment. I kinda wish you said a few things about what Maruki represents in your opinion because my readin of it seems a bit... radical to me. Here is how I see it: people seek order and leadership because they fear the freedom of making choices of their own. When Yaldabaoth offers them order, they are willing to sacrifice everything for it. The villains of the game aren't just errors in the system, they are products of the system that it uses to justify itself. What Maruki then delivers is a system that doesn't use scapegoats like that to justify itself and that truly is benevolent - and it still is a problem. Again, it is not the bad actor who controls and embodies the system who is the problem, but the fact that people externalize responsibility for their actions. Consequently, reform is ultimately meaningless and rebellion is the only appropriate response.

[@nicholasnwagbara1333]

This is delightfully detailed analysis.

[@PantsaBear]

Great comment, I also did not wake up thinking I would be engaged enough in a topic to respond like this. Everything you said about the implications of the original games theming and Yaldaboth is extremely valid and I agree with just about all of it. I just think where that theming falls flat for me in the orginal game (and maybe others like the maker of this video) is how that fits in with some of the confidants and the mini arcs that they go through, as well as some of the other elements of the game. The confidants are mostly implied to have something to do with society-caused injustice to these characters, yet I feel like more than a few of these characters come to an extremely shallow understanding of what it means to rebel, or even solve, their own problems (Mishima, Ann, just about any character that has you go to mementos to change a heart so the lesson they learm boils down to "never give up and things will work out", and a few others I'll avoid for comment-length reasons). Because of this, it makes Persona 5 as a whole come off as much more shallow then I think it actually is overall, which was the case for me on my playthrough. It feels like a game that alternates between being thematically interesting and superficial inspiration at times. There also isn't really a true emotional consequence when the player rebels against these adults in the game. It usually boils down to the formula of "this bad thing is gonna happen inevitebly unless you overcome the odds", then you eventually do. The only 3 times it deviates from this is when you fake your death, when Ryuji/Sojiro get fake deaths towards the end, and when your resurrected in the velvet room from being forgotten out of the public's cognition in the end so it feels like a fake death. I dont exactly get the feeling that would come with actually rebelling, which is real emotional consequences at times, so I think that feeling just rings hollow after such a long game looking back. I also think elements, such as but not limited to the romance system and some ways to improve social stats, really make the game come off as shallow and gamey all to give the player things to do / feel powerful in quantifiable ways. This all hurt my feelings on the macro-narrative going on with Yaldaboth and society's sins as a whole, even if I understood exactly what they were going for. This is improved in almost every way with Royal. The cohesion between gameplay, plot, and theming is so much stronger even in the main game thanks to the quality of life additions, more free time, small additions to each confidant level which helps flesh out the storylines more than I expected, and improvement of pacing thanks to all the aforementioned things + Kasumi, Akechi, and Maruki being introduced early with their own storylines. Even before I got to January 1st and the last semester, I thought to myself "wow, this game is much improved as far as making me feel what the game wants me to feel with the themes its trying to touch on". The Yaldaboth arc felt even better than in the original game, despite me knowing what was gonna happen lol. Everything from you being brought back and ascending the Qlypoth to the canon ending was superb and felt much more earned, even when in the base game I thought the ending still was awesome it was just lacking that extra intangible weight with buildup. The recontextualization of the main game with the new semester is just what blows it out of the water for me. It even solves my issue with the "no consequence for rebelling" point, since there very much are societal downsides to doing what youre doing in the "good" ending. A lot of games give you the "choose your ending" aspect, but not many succeed in making it feel legitimately confusing as to what you think would be the right thing to do. Even with Akechi about to tear my throat out via peer pressure, I can't lie when I say I heavily considered taking Maruki's offer several times. There was a level of resonating with his cause that Yaldaboth's choice just never reaches remotely (what other reasonable choice is there in the original game other than fight him, its not like youll get punished for rebelling, you havent to that point really in any meaningul way after all). P5 Royal resonated with me far more than the original P5 did, and while not a perfect game with totally concise theming, it hit as hard as almost any game Ive played in a while. Also Royal let me have enough time to get to know my man Yoshida :) I'd follow that man to the grave hehe

[@zacklawler8169]

I like both the final bosses. I find Maruki is just more relatable because he's a human and not a manifestation of human desires or a God, but someone who's a human with good intentions(but not a great method). The message behind Yaldabaoth is great though. They're just different entities in a great game Edit: symbolically, I totally agree that Yaldabaoth is the "final enemy" of the game

[@PantsaBear]

@@zacklawler8169 That's true, I don't think Yaldaboth is intended to come off as relatable lol. The message behind him is very interesting, I just think the ending doesn't hit for me as hard as it probably should, for the reasons I said in the other comment. I don't exactly feel the urgency the phantom thieves do, so it lacks a lot of narrative tension despite how cool the fight is and how awesome the kill shot is choreographed

[@AlexBermann]

That's a very interesting perspective. Personally, I was convinced that accepting Marukis world was the right choice and the implications of the game did not make me reconsider that stance. After I chose to rebel to see what happens, I had the opportunity to look closer at what Maruki did. When you talk with various NPCs, you don't just see them avoiding tragedies, they live a life where everything goes their way - and they notice. They stop striving for anything and also quickly stop appreciating what good that world has to offer because of that. Even when you look at his therapy sessions, his approach is deeply wrong. He strives to solve the problems for his patients which is not the job of a counselor. The job of a counselor is to enable people to help themselves. Maruki doesn't do that. Out of compassion, he infantilizes people. One thing that is very relevant to this interpretation is his palace. One thing about the story about the Garden of Eden is that there is a big paradox there: if you live in perfect tranquility and happiness, why would it be possible to eat the forbidden fruit? Also, why is there a forbidden fruit to begin with? The answer s simple: when Eve ate of the forbidden fruit and could no longer stay in Eden, this was part of humanities Genesis, it essentially is a coming of age story. Maruki sees himelf as God in this story, but he doesn't have the courage to let people out of the garden because he knows how cruel the world outside can be. He's a loving, but overbearing and clingy father. As for the interpretation of Camus: I would argue that absurdism would have been the easiest way for this Utopia to work out. Even if you don't think that Marukis world is real, even if it has no meaning and even if giving your best is completely useless, you can still do it.

[@isapu1948]

I stood against Maruki from the beginning because in the persuit of the world's Happiness, he purposely discarded Health. That and him trying to remind Sumire of who she is by purposely retraumatizing her when he-as a therapist- probably knew of a better way is very cult-like behavior and he'd do it again if need be. It sometimes pays to judge a person by the details rather than the larger picture. Or maybe I'm just salty because he disrespected my favorite science.

[@AlexBermann]

@@isapu1948 If I remember correctly, Maruki did that after you refused his world. Basically, when I remember it correctly, I would have no way to know about it at the time. Anyhow, even if I knew, it would only have shown that he was personally immoral, not that his ends were bad. About discarding health: I don't think so. According to the WHO, "Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity". Or, to say it in a different way: a person who shows symptoms of a mental disease, but whose well-being is not impacted by these symptoms is healthy and doesn't need to be cured. Especially if we look at the history of psychiatry, I find Marukis focus on enabling happiness for his patients to be the superior way. Of course, the way he seeks to achieve that goal are wrong and very much cult-like. The big difference between a cult leader and Maruki is: Maruki can rewrite reality. Retraumatizing a patient is absolutely unacceptable, but if doing so enables him to rewrite reality so that it never even happened, then is it really bad? Also 690 million people are suffering from hunger at this moment. Can I morally condemn someone who would help all of them by retraumatizing one person? Maruki is presented with the trolley problem with hundreds of millions of people on the one track and one person on the other - with the promise that he could save this person from the track if he just send the train on it. I do see approaching it from a perspective of professionalism, but who can stay professional if they are presented with such a possibility? It is a hard question.

[@oimate6357]

I’d still take Maruki’s world

[@Kitsunary]

I think my problem has to do more with the perception of happiness. From personal experience, even when nothing is wrong, it won't necessarily mean I'm happy. If everything went my way, I'd be happier in the short term, but in the long term it would no longer matter because it would just become the new normal and would no longer make me happy. Besides this, different people need different things to be happy, especially if they are goal or challenge oriented (something Maruki advises against since it could lead to failure). In any case where granting the wish Maruki thinks will make someone happy is not enough, or any other problem arises, he brainwashes them to be someone that will be happy regardless (the palace's "behavioral therapy").

[@PantsaBear]

Which is sort of the philosophical point on display here. Is it brainwashing? Yea absolutely. But the only thing that matters to you or me is relative perspective. You can be an extremely short person but if you change one's idea of what "short" even is, they won't even consider that a negative attribute about themselves anymore. Whether you think doing that to others is ethical or not, or whether it even matters to begin with, is up to you, but there is no debate: doing that will make you happier in the short term and long term. He's not giving everyone what they want at all times at all turns which leads to sloth, he's just keeping everyone overall happy and free of immense pain. For example someone like Ryuji might still not be great at school, but he's still doing what he finds fulfilling in running track and field so that's all that matters for his happiness. I don't necessarily agree with Maruki's ideology, but it's sound in logic as long as you subscribe to Hedonism and the idea that life has great meaning even if isn't randomized or leaves out "intense pain" in it's spectrum

[@jasendrileck2322]

Very well put! One thing that I heard is that Maruki would eventually have to make decisions that, while they may be better for the person, goes against their and/or his ideals. His perfect reality couldn’t last

[@PantsaBear]

@@jasendrileck2322 Lol he'd just change their ideals and give them new ones

[@bruced09]

@@jasendrileck2322 He can just change reality, what would he ever have to do to make it not last?

[@CorruptedFile557]

I wouldn’t say that the villains of base persona five lacked depth, especially when you realize that the core question the phantom thieves are fighting against in Maruki’s has already been told before in the base game. There is a reason that multiple parallels can be drawn between Maruki’s and Yaldabauth’s goals/realities. This is because one vital thing is taken away in both of these realities, Free Will. Yaldabauth wanted to regress humanity into sloth to grant everyone’s desires, and Maruki wanted to remove pain. The only thing they required to do so was each individual’s free will. That was the core idea the phantom thieves were fighting for, to make the decision for them selves weather it was a good one or a bad one.

[@TobiDyLetsPlay100]

oh the third Semester... after the events in the Shido Palace, i knew something is wrong when Akechi-kun stood infront of me, i thought ''How?! You should be dead!'' and started to quetion everything i encountered, after Christmas eve with Futaba-chan nothing was the same... Giving a person the chance to live out his or her dreams and desires without any doubt sounds like a dream but in reality its a nightmare, knowingly living a lie, created by a gentle Madman like Maruki who couldn't accept the truth about his lost love is just wrong to me, Loss, Death, Failing - these things are part of a human's life, Experiences which are essential to make during ones lifetime, just overpainting them with lies is not right... it's not written if the Acceptance of Marukis reality is ''the bad Ending'' per se, but for me, living a lie, KNOWINGLY, its not to live at all, breaking out from this massive Distortion of Reality is the real true ending in my opinion!

[@mahmoud8492]

"Created by a gentle mad man" i see what you did there

[@TobiDyLetsPlay100]

@@mahmoud8492 ;)

[@SuperSparDante]

Just one thing, atlus intended akechi to survive shidos palace even in royal (due to an unused cutscene with him being alive and talking about aiding joker after his recovery) so, akechi's "existence" inside of maruki's reality becomes even more deep, however, we still don't know akechi's true fate (due to it being an unused cutscene, even if the ending implies that he might be alive), just a random fact that makes it all the more interesting.

[@Nomadman903]

I say that you probably are the first person to mention Albert Camus in a Persona 5 analysis, which is something I agree with since there's the Absurdism in most of that writing and how that relates to most characters. This was a good video and couldn't be more than agreed on it.

[@Bryce4Impact]

Perfect lives. Perfect li_es.

[@courtney9731]

This made me fall in love with Royal all over again. Excellent video

[@christopherroman1822]

Akechi: I’d rather die than to live in this reality. Akechi: Would you fold so easily, over such a trivial thing as a threat on my life? Joker: “This isn’t small potatoes.” 16:39 _time stamp and pause for context_

[@Flaris]

Sumire’s situation is an interesting one. She was never going to really recover through Maruki’s method. It was an incomplete solution. Even at her height as Kasumi she never could reach the goal. Her performances would always be a hollow mimicry of Kasumi that didn’t take into consideration Sumire’s physical condition and her own talents. In a sense she’d likely be overwritten again because of the suffering that failure would leave and go even further away from herself. Yet Maruki’s intervention allows her to meet support that would let her accept her weakness, her grief, and stand up again. I liked the conflict and how the game tackled it. Nothing wrong to say on a certain level the main cast is wrong. Many would be happier if Maruki had his way. But it is true that they wouldn’t have gotten this far if they simply accepted the easy route. They were forged through their pain, found connections through it, and their defiance toppled a god. If they weren’t like that the world wouldn’t exist in the first place for Maruki to try and control anyways. There are enough questions about it to leave me conflicted but ok with taking Maruki down. Human choice can lead to suffering and maybe having free will hurts people. But taking away the chance to chase your dreams unless it is deemed good for you seems a heavy price. Yusuke’s schoolmate having his passion disregarded or Sumire having her very identity quashed are just a few consequences of escaping pain. It’s a good conflict. Not everyone can overcome trauma. There’s a high benefit to those that just can’t do it. But for those that matured through their struggles it is only natural to keep on fighting to continue the lives they made for themselves.

[@clover2340]

you explained this beautifully. i love how this ending left me thinking about it for days after because it is an incredible conflict.

[@markmystery3536]

Sumire admit herself that she won't be able to get to that point if its not for Maruki's treatment in the first place. She said that if she didn't meet Maruki, she would have still spend all those time crying by herself...

[@CountDVB]

And there’s nothing stopping new trauma from coming in and wrecking your progress

[@Handlelesswithme]

Finally I was waiting for someone to tie the themes of Alberto Camus to Persona, I mean them saying revolt a lot was kind of on the noise, I felt kind of alone that no one else spotted it, A+ for that pronunciation of Maruki, I could listen to you say that for hours. As for a few mentioned details is -the vanilla final palace is design to be figuratively the opposite of the inhuman world(the common name for the world without meaning) as in bloodied, veinfilled and alive. It also seems to take inspiration from Carl Jung’s recorded sick dreams -each person gain their persona from having their longing for unity/clarity/meaning against the inhuman world(as in to revolt) -each of the starting Persona’s are figures which failed to revolt physically, as in what ever they were apart of ended poorly for them, as to tie toward a figurative revolt, since what makes someone a absurd hero is not to revolt but to recognize ones revolt is meaningless, and still attempt to find meaning through this struggle. This seems to draw more of portraying the cast as Absurd hero’s as a Persona is just how a person view themselves

[@maccamachine]

It’s so much better getting the true ending especially the maruki palace that cemented the game as one of my favorites and it’s great how they connected shidos actions to maruki even though I saw that coming it was a great experience and this is an amazing video man

[@miwhitty8316]

This video is SO intriguing! Very well done!

[@gomi-san]

Thanks friend

[@MoistToucan]

Akechi reminds me of a quote from Miyamoto Musashi: “Truth is not what you want it to be. It is what it is, and you must bend to its power, or live a lie”

[@DKzCoolD2]

This is the best p5r video on youtube. Great job.

[@ChimeraLotietheBunny]

this series really make such meaningful messages..I already can tell we can't livew without bad events in life

[@thaiisfood]

What a great video, I’m surprised this isn’t as popular as it should be

[@petermacleod7509]

This is why persona the series really speaks to me. It really is beautiful when u think about it❤️

[@Sinclair_01]

Wow Alot of research Amazing commentary A hopeful messege What more could a person need

[@Canido19]

On the question of whether I'd accept Maruki's reality: I say no in the context of knowing that Maruki's reality as-proposed in-story does not give the vast majority of people the opportunity to choose it. Maruki's reality has to supercede actual reality in order to exist at all. If I chose Maruki and anyone I cared about didn't, then any versions of those loved ones in that reality would definitionally be fake. So anyone who wouldn't want it, regardless of whether that person was me, would have to be forced into it for it to work. At that point, if I choose Maruki's reality, I am effectively taking it upon myself to decide what is best for them. Even if I'm right about what's best for another person, forcing it upon them is still undermining their status as fellow people. Good reasoning does not put me above them or make me any more deserving of the right to decide what form reality takes. Hypothetically, if everyone chose Maruki's reality, I'd he more on-board. But... 1) ...that is presented as not being the case; & 2) ...if it was the case, then all but the most radical changes (such as bringing people back from the dead) would be things we would just collectively agree to make happen in actual-reality anyway.

[@ellesandralady8596]

Pain and sadness is a part of life. It’s how you deal with it. Joker and his friends grew dealing with their pain and with finding each other and knowing that they can reunite one day is amazing

[@IceQueen975]

A correction with Akechi: in the True ending, you see him from the torso down outside the train as Akira leaves. So Akechi is actually alive. Also, in the game files, there's an unused scene which confirms Akechi is alive and went to a rehabilitation facility.

[@jerry3115]

it's not technically confirmed if he is actually alive, there are little hints like that though. Technically the torso could just be someone else dressed like him.

[@a_sanchez920]

sadly, royal isn’t canon to persona

[@ousmitgaming1246]

@@a_sanchez920 yea

[@Balfour715]

@@a_sanchez920 It is marketed as the definitive version of Persona 5. The only reason Strikers does not include royal is to prevent spoilers of those who were playing it. Nothing in strikers contradicts Royal at all. Strikers released barely 4 months after Royal in Japan and they were created at the same time, one by KT and one by Atlus. Just like how Arena and Golden don't really take into account, but Ultimax does take both. If Persona 5 Arena happens, both Strikers and Royal will likely be represented. Atlus has never once said Royal is not canon. Its marketed as the true P5 experience. Please do not spread misinformation

[@a_sanchez920]

@@Balfour715 i wasn’t attempting to spread misinformation. however, considering that sumire isn’t a character, one would most likely assume that royal isn’t canon, at least not in the timeline where strikers happens. i apologize

[@mrbonlino]

A life without suffering is a life without challenge. And a life without challenge is a life without purpose. Humanity as a whole, move forward by solving problems, succeeding in challenge. Maruki would erase illness, famine, cancer, and at the surface its a good thing. Until you realise doctors, physicians, cancer research, has been rendered pointless. In a world where noone suffers, noone needs to go to the hospital to get their checkups, or their medication. Doctors would be out of the job. It also comes as a mental issue. Imagine you were to participate in a race, and as soon as the gun is fired, you're cheered and awarded first place. Seems pretty good, but then you try to enter competitions and win every single time. You go for the lottery and win every single time. You'd have no need for a job, money becomes a trivial matter, hell you cant even starve so why eat? Now imagine everyone on earth living this life, somehow. Maruki can rewrite reality to solve an economical collapse possibly, but everyone has the equal opportunity to be filthy rich, but they didn't earn it. Anything a person does in marukis world is handed to them, they didn't earn any of it. A lack of challenge in the world is a lack of purpose for people. And people need purpose in order to keep going.

[@BlueSunStudios1]

Not everyone comes out of suffering perfectly fine, Rumi being the perfect example of that where she spiraled into such catatonic depression that nothing but memories of her family would even let you know that she was alive in there somewhere, and even that causes her to completely break down into severe agony to where her only salvation was having her memories overwritten completely. You hear so much about the success stories of those who survived tragedy and trauma but not enough of many more people who never do which skews our perception about suffering and life. The takeaway should be that suffering will absolutely destroy life without positivity to pull you out of it as can be attested multiple times throughout not just this game but in previous games as well. Suffering in and of itself does not build, it destroys, and pain never makes you stronger coming out of it, only weaker. A positive emotional foundation is what makes life worth living, not having suffered so you can "appreciate" life or to "find purpose".

[@CountDVB]

Honestly, I think this sounds like we’re romanticizing suffering. We’re trying to justify why it’s important as a coping mechanism for being unable to rid ourselves of it.

[@ilse_22]

@@CountDVBi beg to argue that what the OP has done is the complete opposite of romanticisation because the reality that he is depicting without suffering is a false reality while the one with suffering is the objective reality

[@ilse_22]

@@BlueSunStudios1but i agree that what BlueSun said that simply suffering does not create meaning but finding a positive emotional outlook and overcoming that suffering which results in purpose. Maybe on a tangential point that progressive levels of suffering is beneficial to a human’s life as it allows us to withstand greater doses of sufferings as life moves on. To elaborate from a personal standpoint, there were some things that absolutely wrecked my perspective of happiness as a kid that brought me close to the edge of suicide but now while those things were truly excruciating to deal with, my young adult mind is able to tolerate these pains and lead life with an optimistic outlook. Related text that might help one understand this concept better is Men’s Search of Meaning by Viktor Frankl of how a prisoner who went through the Nazi concentration camps was able to find meaning and overcome suffering despite living what we would consider as hell on earth. What I might infer from this is that humans as a race are truly very tough creatures and I argue that the value of suffering comes from how it shapes us in this aspect of life. Please do share any criticisms or agreements with what I said so I can build upon my view of this extremely important topic

[@CountDVB]

@@ilse_22 I mean, what makes it true or false? Who says suffering is what makes it meaningful? By that logic, everyone should go to hell.

[@racecarthedestroyer7192]

never had I thought I would learn so much from a video game

[@racecarthedestroyer7192]

never had I thought that i'd watch a 20 minute video on philosophy

[@alexandersykes6300]

Ah... Satorl Marsh’s Night theme... I see you are a man of culture as well.

[@joeyidc3212]

i have found there is 2 types of suffering what makes better and what breaks u down if u survive it u get made better if u break.... u lose some and get closer to insanity

[@deadbeat5499]

Wow, this guy is mad underrated

[@brantbecker9255]

SUFFERING IS IMPORTANT

[@myyoutubeaccount4167]

I think pain can be important...both pain and suffering put the good in our lives into perspective. But, contrary to others, I don't believe suffering (which I see as both a deep and prolonged pain) to be worth the extra perspective gained.

[@awatf8244]

Humanity has progressed by focusing on bad things to solve, than rather escaping them

[@alleycat2297]

Great analysis!

[@racecarthedestroyer7192]

every single thing about this game hit me hard

[@omegapotato8612]

Persona is very much based on the ideas of suffering being a core experience to happiness, since it takes many pages from Carl Jung, who spoke of accepting the Shadow, who holds our pain and suffering, insecurities, our darker sides, just as much as the Persona, the masks we wear to project ourselves in the best manor. Without pain, without sadness, happiness is meaningless, without suffering, we cannot become our true selves.

[@lucassanchez9033]

This random thought came to me… Maruki’s power doesn’t make him immortal, does it? If that’s the case even if Maruki got his way, if Maruki dies, what happen to his reality? What would happen to the people who by at some point have become fully dependent on Maruki’s reality when confronted with the real and cruel reality? I can only imagine it would not go well…

[@F1areon]

I think it's implied by Lavenza that Maruki WOULD become an immortal unstoppable god figure if he was allowed to get his way, so that part's most likely not happening.

[@blueshadeseraphim6926]

I admire your thoughtful analysis of both sides of this philosophical argument. Whether or not you think the Phantom Thieves or Maruki should win, all weighs on how you perceive life, your values, what you see as the ideal solution to moral quandaries like this, etc. As for me? I believe Maruki was completely and utterly justified in his actions on all accounts. And that’s because we share the same philosophy of utilitarian hedonism. If everyone can be happy without the randomly determined strife to get there, that’s the best possible outcome for mankind. And as for the game’s beliefs about being in control of one’s destiny and living on your own terms, well... that’s just delusional, if you ask me. Every choice ever made, and to be made boils down to simple cause and effect. A person is only truly “free”, if they can do something that is completely illogical. And that’s quite frankly impossible. And so under that lens, the Phantom Thieves believing in governing themselves is just as big a lie as Maruki’s reality. And so their argument against him pretty much crumbles. But that’s just my opinion. And you’re welcome to believe the contrary.

[@killjoy7378]

I wish it was possible to like and dislike a comment at the same time. So I'll just like it. While every choice can boil down to cause and effect, it still implies a form of freedom on some way. If evey choice leads to the same out come life would kinda become meaningless. And yes I mean that even if all outcomes were positive as well.

[@blueshadeseraphim6926]

@@killjoy7378 Thank you for your response. What freedom do you believe that would be? And technically speaking every outcome wouldn’t really be “the same” in Maruki’s world per se. It’s just that Maruki’s reality would snip out the possibility for negative outcomes. Now you may wonder how that’s not the same outcome every time. Well, there are different kinds of happiness, with different intensities and longevity. Anyone can attest that the happiness you find from the thrill of riding a rollercoaster is different than the happiness you find from watching your favorite TV show. Maruki’s world can balance out these different varieties of happiness to ensure a given person isn’t too overwhelmed, or burnt out. While at the same time, ensuring they are consistently happy. And while bad experiences are indeed a separate kind of economic from good ones, they are limited as well across a spectrum. There’s always a minimum and maximum of how bad a situation can be or feel. And everything you will ever experience in your lifetime can be broken down into one of three categories: good, bad, or mutual. There isn’t really an infinite amount of feelings you can get from a given scenario because everything is laid out along a gradient. Everything has a limit, because as far as we know, infinity isn’t a concept that exists in the real world. And when it comes to sensations, it’s no different. Does that make any sense?

[@killjoy7378]

@@blueshadeseraphim6926 I suck at explaining things, but I meant it in the sense every outcome would be positive. Sure its not much but it still something. Also using Sumire and that student who had artist block from Yusukes school as examples. Maruki would either change your memories to something completely different or erease your existence and make you believe your someone else. To make a person happy, when he could have just given the artist some inspiration. As for Sumire i'd say she simultaneously postively & negativity impacted by his actualization as she gets to be her sister like she, but has her own existence erased. And I guess a world of only hapliness isn't a problem. But said happiness is being decided by a single person who will do anything he see's as for the benefits of a peaceful world. Again I feel like I could have explained it better.

[@blueshadeseraphim6926]

@@killjoy7378 Don’t worry, I understand what you’re trying to say. But I believe that as long as people are happy, and nothing of moral importance is lost, what difference does it make how you go about it? If people are happier believing they’re someone else, I say let them. That’s a reason some people play games: to live out the role of a person they’re not irl. Or at the very least, living out what it’s like to be someone with traits they lack. Like confidence, fitness, beauty, strength, or something else along those lines. As for your other point about your happiness being decided by one person, Dr. Maruki has spent his time at Shujin specifically for the purposes of getting to know what people want. And to find the proof he needs for his papers, but that’s not important to this conversation. And even if he wasn’t thorough, the man has access to Mementos. He even has the place bending to his will. And Mementos is a place that’s crafted by the desires of all of mankind, as well as displaying them within its various depths. If he didn’t know what a given person wants at any given time, he can simply find that out via investigating Mementos.

[@killjoy7378]

@@blueshadeseraphim6926 Ironically I do think Maruki's morally in the right, yet i'd disagree with him. Honestly I believe the thieves themselves are being selfish sure they've grown from their hardships but, that doesnt mean everyone else will.Yet like I said already I would side with the thieves, but I'm sure why myself. You've given me something to think about thanks.

[@TitusZembrzuska]

I'm suppose to be playing Persona 5 Royal so irdk why I'm watching these spoilers. I mean it makes me actually want to play it as a took a break! Honestly, in my opinion Persona 5 / Persona 5 Royal / Persona 4 and all the other ones are like the best anime games ever! Like the mysteries and everything it's so fun like when you start to play it you just want to know more and more about it and literally play it 24/7 :D

[@sesshomarutomioka9220]

Finally I found you this explanation is underrated

[@Boxoflife]

I find myself to personally deny Maruki's reality mainly for reason 1: (to achieve something without actually doing it) There is essentially pride behind that reasoning, but my bassline is that choosing pleasure without true suffering stops Rebellion altogether

[@ThelordHayden34]

Tbh I still see suffering as pointless pain after experiencing the game and see maruki as basically a diffrent form of freedom a freedom of pain Vs the phantom thieves freedom form. Of freedom free will Neither are good and neither will make everyone free Think like this in people with severe mental illness due to trauma in the free will freedom they won’t be free from that trauma in most cases they will forever be trapped by it till the day they die In the other reality they nether experienced that trauma they would be free from all of that , people born with obviously limitations are now free The dead are free , people who are reject from society are free many more are free And I would be free Don’t think of marukis world as no freedom no pain think of it as a different freedom with no pain If I was maruki I would simply erase the mata nav and give the pthives no chance to stop the freedom of so many others Just because they don’t personally agree with it ,what right do they have to stop so many from being free and happy ? No right, they have no right to this is why I will always accept marukis reality, the game encourages me to be free?then I will chose the option where I am

[@mrbonlino]

So then, you would instead like maruki to dictate what is best for you, rather than you make your own decisions on how you want to live your life. You want to tell me that maruki, no matter his intentions, has the right to make the decisions and shape someone's reality to suit his idea of happiness. If a disabled person that suffered daily, were to be cured because of maruki, this wasn't something the disabled person had a choice in, the disabled person is cured whether he wants it or not. That is the problem with maruki. He shapes reality to fit his idea of happiness. He can prevent you from making any sort of decision that doesn't fit his idea of happy. Is that REALLY a life worth living, dictated by what someone else deems a full life?

[@ThelordHayden34]

@@mrbonlino well I would be happy so yes

[@savstinks6847]

To me, it sounds like u think ppl will have better lives if mental illnesses don't exist? I mean, your example is quite specific and personal, which is why I wonder what u would have chosen if you've suffered but without mental Illnesses in ur daily lives

[@mrbonlino]

@@savstinks6847 I'd still choose to side against maruki. At the end of the day, maruki would now govern how your life ultimately leads. You get your dream job because he made it so, not because you earned it. He gives you a partner for life not because you both love each other truly, but because he fabricated it to be that way. Nothing is truly your decision anymore, and at best, maruki has allowed it to happen.

[@savstinks6847]

Honestly, i don't agree with with maruki mainly bcs of his rlly specific mentality of fixing ur problems, basically he thinks that a world without your personal suffering is the best medicine. Which i don't exactly like Abt it, i mean, i wouldn't have felt much more accomplished if i didn't know that i suffered a lot and i overcame it despite that. To me, it all just boils down on wether or not u think you'll be able to overcome it on your own

[@zuzu091]

"Villians in Persona 5 are evil for being evil" THANK YOU, THANK YOU

[@Terumimi]

As much as i love this game, i have to agree. Even Kamoshida, one of my favorite (or is it least favorite, since i hate him? But like it feels good to hate him?) doesn't have a REASON to be evil. Sure, sometimes that isnt a bad thing (at least to me) but in a game like this there deserves to be a reason tbh

[@clover2340]

yeah, theyre literally all just full blown sociopaths

[@NotTomorrow1]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oaObpZWwqduBqLc

[@F1areon]

@@Terumimi I mean, many of them are actually based off IRL public figures who were caught abusing their positions of power in horrible ways... sometimes people really ARE cartoonishly evil.

[@CrimsonJake]

Love this. Great job!

[@AloyImpact]

I was expecting a jungian analysis, this is pleasant to hear other inspirations

[@Hyp3rSonic]

Great video!

[@TheBenignSeraphim]

What a fucking breakdown

[@X-traFrancis]

You deserve WAY MORE subs!!!!

[@Morden97]

Just finished royal and agree with most of this, but I don't interpret yaldabaoth as so simple as your intro made him out to be.. great video!!

[@John-Stark]

I think the problem now is a Majority of people will probably pick Maruki's reality with how this Decade is going

[@crashfuel3085]

I agree, as most people prefer to live comfortable lives rather then facing and accepting reality.

[@Bornagainvillain]

To the point where they’ll sacrifice their own free will…

[@Canuchewdeeznuts]

​@@BornagainvillainResearch has shown that we didn't have free will to begin with

[@myyoutubeaccount4167]

How is that a problem?

[@returnedtomonkey8886]

​@Bornagainvillain Tell as a old as time.

[@mikaqupcake4388]

very nice video!

[@SonicRooncoPrime]

Incredible work, you've clearly put a *ton* of research into this, thank you! Do you have a link to the hedonism formula, please? Or at least the paper that discusses it? Thanks in advance!

[@gomi-san]

philosophy.lander.edu/ethics/calculus.html This link explains it pretty well.

[@clinto32]

excellent analysis!!!

[@pallingtontheshrike6374]

this is why i never actually engage maruki on the same "tier" of issues and consideration, but instead bring up the possibility of a nyx popping up and destroying the world as an end to maruki's world. you can't engage maruki's world assuming it will work perfectly forever, or else you'll just get dragged around in philosophical circles; you have to use a higher "tier" issue to crush it.

[@princecharming8125]

Maruki is right. First of all if we never left the garden of Eden, nobody would giving a shit about suffering perseverance.

[@princecharming8125]

Second.I can't believe the no people reject Maruki's plan. As long as the rational sane person ideals are met in a ideal perfect world nothing else matters. The problem is people think to much and that is why humanity is headed to the apocalypse in Revelations. So excuse me for deciding Maruki's plan over the Phantom Thieves wishes to rebel. I can surely continue once again why Maruki need to win. ( If P5R was reality I say this next. While you rebels are suffering until the end of the book of Revelations, just know that in Maruki's RATIONAL ideal perfect happy world, zillions upon zillions of us people are endlessly living happily ever after that only our minds can think up every second)

[@princecharming8125]

Another a God? Ever occurred to you that Maruki just want to be everyone's fairy godfather that's it?

[@princecharming8125]

Akechi has trust issues

[@KyngD469]

You need to learn to live imo. You can and will be better for it. But it's also ok if you don't.

[@princecharming8125]

@@KyngD469 I rather live in a reality where I'm always happy with zero not planned things I didn't approve of not happening. Kind of makes me wonder how great life would be if pointless Gods screwing with humanity like some sick show no longer exist

[@stitchfan93]

My own analysis: The meaning of life according to Viktor Frankl lies in finding a purpose and taking responsibility for ourselves and other human beings. By having a clear “why” we can face all the “how” questions of life. Only by feeling free and sure of the objective that motivates us will we be able to make the world a better place. Sorry if I made any mistakes yeah everyone.

[@Bxu021]

Here is my thought process, if the people are brainwashed to fix their problems, they did not take responsibility to correct them selfs, it’s a lie. I would say I prefer living in bliss and everyone living in harmony and bliss but when you think that the world didn’t turn out this way because everyone has a mutual understanding and agreement and was just forced into the role even against their will, it just feels fake to me… But that’s just my opinion

[@Dragon_Lair]

That's because it is fake. What Maruki does is usurp the human condition and destroy free will and agency. He is so convinced that people shouldn't feel ANY pain at all that he doesn't see how overcoming pain can make someone stronger. He is projecting his inability to get over Rumi's suffering and his own on the world itself and just can't understand why anyone would choose to accept the bad alongside the good. Even his counseling sessions through the base game show this off. He projects his problems onto others, breaks confidentiality, and takes it upon himself to fix other people's problems rather than do what he is supposed to do as a councilor; help people find ways to fix their own problems. Maruki fundamentally does not believe people are capable of fixing their problems and moving past the pain of it because he himself is unable to so he takes it upon himself to fix people's problems for them no matter the cost.

[@zigazav1]

I've seen things similar to this philosophy in other games too. Like, for example: [warning, spoilers for both Sonic and the Black Knight, as well as Honkai Star Rail's Penacony arc] Merlina from Sonic and the Black Knight. After Sonic defeats King Arthur, Merlina takes the scabbard that granted King Arthur his immortality, and gives into the side of the Underworld, to create a world that never ends. She knows what wrongs will happen later in the storybook she exists in, and rather than embracing the end, and living in the time she has to her best, she decides to make the world never ending. Sonic after defeating her said this: "Every world has it's end. That's why we have to make the most of the time we have". He is basically pointing out that without death, life loses value. It's only because of the strength we get from overcoming hardships and the pain of grief of those we love who have died, that life truly shines. A world without suffering, is a world without growth. A world without pain and hardship, makes life lose it's value of individuality. And in Honkai Star Rail, we have the character Sunday. Unlike Black Knight's "Merlina", his desire for the god complex he has, is out good will and kindness, not pure selfishness. Sunday uses the power of Ena The Order to give Penacony a life free from pain and suffering, through a dream world granted by a Stelleron. He like Maruki, wants to create a reality where no one has to suffer, and those who have to work to survive, he wants them to have all 7 days of the week being rest days. Instead of just "Sunday" of each week. He knows not everyone has the power to achieve happiness. His mentality is that the weak will always be weak, and the strong will always be strong. Which is not an accurate assumption. We are strong because we overcome hardship in our lives. Many fight frequently, be it metaphorically or not, to survive or protect those who matter most to them. A life of being in perfect world devoid of hardships and pain, is not truly living. Something Sunday's own sister, Robin, knows all too well. When everyone needed aid to break free from Ena's dream, Robin with her good morals, saved herself alone. The dream was so blissfully perfect, that it was impossible to be real. Sunday wanted the best for everyone, and was willing to force that upon everyone because he felt it was the right thing to do, because he cares about everyone too much without taking account of the morals of forcing it on others without their consent. Just like Persona 5 Royal's Dr. Maruki. When you really think about it, Dr. Maruki in a way, was also creating a "dream" of free from pain and suffering through manipulating the world because of it's connection to the cognitive world. Dr. Maruki and Sunday were not truly evil. They did their misdeeds out of good will. But good intentions does not always create a morally good outcome. Sometimes, you can do what you feel is of good will, only to have others take the negative brunt of the action resulting from that acting on good intentions. I certainly in my life have tried to do the right thing out of kindness, and sometimes, it too resulted in being the wrong thing to do for others' well-being. I may not though, have a right to talk about overcoming grief of death of loved ones. I never truly got over the death of my beloved cat who was my daughter to me, not a pet. And I blame myself for her needing to be put down. Wounds of the "heart" sometimes, never heal, and I don't mean the body organ heart

[@dakotakreh7373]

From my point there is no pleasure without pain, Like there is no brightness without the dark. Is it not the sad moments in our life that make the happy ones shine so brightly.

[@keithholtz3592]

that how I see it too

[@griffen34]

What about people who get murdered or genocided? Or do they conveniently not count to you?

[@Condor2481]

@@griffen34 Obviously

[@myyoutubeaccount4167]

Would anyone else's ideal reality be no reality at all, rather than the two choices presented?

[@TheCrimsonMelody]

0 dislikes. Well deserved. Underrated video.

[@omegasamurai1787]

Absolutely loved the story in persona 5 royal!!

[@thelotuseater6496]

I still believe that Maruki was right, but I’m heavily biased. I’ve suffered a lot and I think it’s bullshit that I’m supposed to just “find meaning” in my agonies. To be quite frank, I not only share Bentham’s view but I think it’s outright immoral to conserve pain for the sake of “meaning” or “personal growth” or any other apologetic since the only valid reason to find meaning in pain is to *make it less painful* imo. If you take away pain entirely, it’s intrinsically better. With Nozick’s experience machine, my honest take is that I’d *love* to plug in. If such a machine existed, I’d actively seek it and campaign like Greta Thunberg for to right to permanently escape this unspeakably horrific reality. In fact, the only reason I’m not actively suicidal is the fact that there appear to be no painless suicide methods. I think there is far too much pain in this world which we’ve been conditioned to accept via darwinian evolution. While Joker wouldn’t side with Maruki, I would irl and in fact, I support the radical ideology which seeks to create a world without pain; Transhumanist Abolishionism. Have I grown as a person from my pain? Yes, I have. Was it worth it? Fuck no! Why should I pretend that pain is ok? I feel like the emperor has no clothes, pain just sucks, no one deserves to suffer even a pinprick. The very existence of pain and suffering is an ethical catastrophe of Lovecraftian proportions, no pun intended.

[@bluemariomedia8351]

I reject maruki's philosophy because oh much it match mine. And it scares me. I want to rid to world of evil and cruelity and if it mean makeing the deal with the devil i might went ahead and do it. The fear of becoming the tyrant scare me even if im a good tyrant because fundamentaly, i become someone i hate. Someone who willing going to take something away from people to further their own goals. To me i reject the pleasure machine because it selfish for me. Why will i take all the pleasure for my self in expenses of others? What good is there to live in an isolated world with nothing but a fantasy while ignoring the real people close to you? What about if you invite them to the pleasure machine, are you going to force them to act on your pleasure? Or are you going to act on theirs?

[@Dragon_Lair]

As someone who's suffered a lot myself, I fundamentally disagree with Maruki altogether and wholesale. He is full-stop wrong. You cannot appreciate being healthy until you've been sick. It's just not possible because you don't have the contrast. You can't appreciate ecstasy and joy until you've been through misery and sorrow. Some people also need to make mistakes and experience bad consequences for their actions before they learn because they just don't want to listen to others. The kid being told not to touch the hot stove being one example. Until they actually touch it they don't know WHY they're being told not to touch it, or at least do not understand it. A councilor is meant to exist to help people who can't find a way out of their misery find the path forward to help themselves DESPITE the pain they feel, overcome it, and turn that pain into strength and conviction. If you remove trauma and pain altogether then you effectively turn people into children and remove the ability to understand or empathize with others because no one would have any bad experiences. Ambition would die because it would be like playing a game on easy mode; everything would be going your way so much that personal growth and improving yourself would be impossible. You may reject the idea that you need to find meaning in suffering and pain: you still need to do it if you wish to grow as a person, build character and become more empathetic. All those things are impossible if you remove pain and suffering altogether.

[@gaoaibai6243]

@@Dragon_Lair I completely disagree with your notion but respected your opinion. "The world shall know pain" is an infamous in the anime/manga/video game community for a reason you do NOT need to experience pain to know that it exists and it is fkin WRONG to cause pain to others. You might never appreciate your health if you have never been sick, but it is fkin stupid to inject sth like the bubonic plague virus into your vein just because you wanted to "experience being sick". You do not to shoot yourself with a gun to understand that it will be really painful and that you shouldnt point the gun at others just because you wanted to "experience hurting others". You have books, others to talk to and heck the Internet for a reason. You are supposed to LEARN from them and listen to what the people have to say and make sure to take notes from their experience. There is absolutely ZERO reason for you to go through the same pain that they did to understand how they feel. But even if you do, there is ZERO guarrantee that you will come to the same conclusions at they did for example if you kill an animal in order to experience "death" there is a 50% you will hate yourself for doing it and vow to never kill any living thing in your life ever again.... or you will get addicted to the feeling and go up the ladder from insects to kittens to dogs and finally... humans. That is how we get serial killers IRL VERY DANGEROUS mentality to have imho dont do drugs dont kill for no reason you do NOT need to experience these to know that they are fkin WRONG! So yeah completely disagree tbh I have suffered a LOT also but I do understand that you do not need to go through the same shits I had in order to experience the same pain as I did, all you need to do is LISTEN to my story and take a few lessons from it to understand the "pain" I experienced and draw your own conclusions from it.

[@thelotuseater6496]

⁠@@Dragon_Lair old reply, Ik, “it would be like playing a game on easy mode.” I play EVERY game on easy because I hate stress and struggle, and also I suck at games (that include p5 btw) I’d rather not appreciate being healthy than suffer sickness just to appreciate it. Needing suffering to appreciate happiness does not justify suffering, it diminishes the value of happiness. I suffered for the past 3 years until the last few months with severe chronic pain, last year I nearly took my life. I’m glad I survived, but if I had not cured myself of my pain (which I was told was “unfixable” by a urologist, yeah it was literally chronic CBT btw) I would have tried again and again until I succeeded. >50% of chronic pain sufferers are suicidal, the “growth” I experienced was literally in learning how to treat the pain, nothing else. Now I can prevent it coming back, but it would have been far better if it had never existed in the first place. During my self treatment I realised that much of my chronic pain was caused by extreme stress and anxiety, I was constantly trying to hold myself to standards I couldn’t live up to, the comfort zone was a holiday home I couldn’t afford to even visit. Burnout was an understatement, it was more like I had been disintegrated by the core of the Sun. Now I do every thing I can to minimise adversity and stress in my life, to help keep the chronic pain from coming back. I take things as easy as possible, I “wimp” out, don’t challenge myself, spend hours doing nothing but listening to pink noise while mediating. The result? I’ve not felt this good since 2014! My life satisfaction is way up, I’m no longer suicidal and all as a result of going *against* the common wisdom of embracing struggle and “getting out of your comfort zone” and other bullshit pro-suffering sadistic trash. So, yeah, still agree with Maruki, still would plug in to the experience machine, would still get gene therapy to modify my FAAH/FAAH-Out genes to function like Jo Cameron’s etc etc etc

[@Dragon_Lair]

@@thelotuseater6496 And by only playing on easy mode you never get better and you’re robbing yourself of both the ability and the mental fortitude that comes with it. You will never have a sense of accomplishment for a single thing you do. Ever. Because you will never accomplish anything.

[@FlynnFromTaiga]

4:30 hell no, Maruki did a horrible thing to Sumire, instead of helping her, he forced his views upon her, only cementing her depression.

[@jasmahal7220]

Incredible video! Makes me want to read Camus' work (idk the spelling 😅)

[@Teen_Drama]

I think JS Mill's argument is applicable in most cases. But there's a huge difference between a billionaire using all his wealth to help end poverty and just flat-out overriding people's autonomy w/o their consent.

[@Tomic_K2]

This is a great video

[@thekempter1991]

Great video just wish you threw in the Persona 4 spoiler warning

[@gomi-san]

It's literally in the description now

[@thekempter1991]

@@gomi-san ah my bad should’ve checked there. Great video though

[@CarmelitaFox6111]

A completely useless warning for people on TV or console versions of KZbin.

[@Ayedrian999]

@@gomi-san people check the description before watching a video? Just sounds to me like you're lazy and you didn't feel like editing it into the video.

[@Ayedrian999]

@@CarmelitaFox6111 ^

[@sebastian2456]

Holy fuck dude good job on the video.

[@SW_Y9]

Something i disagree with is the idea that Maruki made a fake reality, which he didn't thats why the song that plays in his reality and when you accept is called Ideal and The Real, its a real reality but its not the correct one.

[@somer4773]

How shin megami tensei teaches us to end it all

[@stephenhill273]

Ok so basically, Brave New World? Ima just saying this from the title.

[@Blackcatjulia]

As a person fought with depression for 28 years and be healed by Lord Jesus Christ, when I played this game I played this game like a therapist with all character even with Maruki 😂

[@greasychickenugget4410]

10:11: My mind: Bonafide Monafide!

[@Ninetails113]

I love this! I never could put into words why Miruki’s choice made me sick to my stomach. But that is a perfect way to put it; to live under someone’s thumb and be unable to make any REAL choices of consequence is no way to live.

[@Teemoplanter]

Rip my current persona 4 playthrough lol

[@megarotom1590]

I think my main disagreement with Maruki is basically that I don't agree with Hedonism. I'm a utilitarian but I think what's best for everyone is to struggle and grow

[@akai3974]

The true ending of royal hit hard since they went separate ways they have something special being phantom thevies

[@aki_nter]

They didn't part ways. They did say during the true end they'll see each other when they can. So, their friendships don't exactly end.

[@akai3974]

@@aki_nter yeah there still connected

[@returnedtomonkey8886]

I'll save this for when hopefully they'll port P5R on steam. Someday.... Can't afford a ps4.... And i don't wanna emulate vanilla P5 for ps3. Edit 2022: Well cowabunga it is.

[@Real_Team]

Lol. Seeing that you've heard that the three Persona games were ported and assuming you're playing or played them, how is it?

[@returnedtomonkey8886]

@@Real_Team Not yet. I've been busy. Don't have the time for a 150 hours game.

[@jonathanleano1863]

When did 13:53 happen? I don’t remember that scene.

[@realcristir]

persona 4 spoiler was necessary for the video

[@royalcass]

i can see your point of view, but i respectfully disagree. if living in his reality meant i could see my best friend again after almost 5 years after her suicide, I wouldn't hesitate to stay, no matter what I'm leaving behind. Seeing her again is too important to me and if i had the ability to, i would, without a second thought

[@Real_Team]

I don't want to be insensitive or sound like I want to change your mind but isn't living in a fake reality to see a fake, cognitive version of your friend, who you know is actually gone, really worth that? If it was the real person, I wouldn't disagree to your statement. I just feel like it would be worse for yourself mentally if this could happen. Either way, I'm sorry to hear about your friend. I honestly couldn't comprehend what it feels like but I'm sure she's looking down on you with a smile, especially if you would want Dr Maruki's reality just to be able to see her again. Take care of yourself! :)

[@owon999]

I don't know much about what you can change to an existing video and its stats, but that P4 description spoiler is not sufficient since you can't see it without scrolling very early after starting the video. Maybe you could adjust the thumbnail?

[@Iandar1]

Should have used someone else Robert Nozik has way to mach baggage seeing how he agrees with Garrett Hardon, the guy who proposed the idiotic tragedy of the commons and the life boat analogy as well as a eugenicists.

[@SwitchStation]

Did you get copyright claimed for this video, I have had issues with the Royal soundtrack. (I did give credit)

[@AR-24]

Please add a spoiler warning at 00:45 for persona 4

[@Luminaryyxx]

The game has been out for years now....

[@AR-24]

@@Luminaryyxx they barely made a PC port

[@AR-24]

@@Luminaryyxx there’s a ton of new people playing

[@Luminaryyxx]

@@AR-24 so? It’s still be out for years point blank period.

[@Luminaryyxx]

@@AR-24 that really doesn’t matter....there’s a time frame for a spoiler warning and it’s long past that point

[@thunter992]

I didn't think watching a video on P5R would spoil my P4G run that I just started for the first time since it got released on modern consoles. You kinda suck for that man

[@ValiantStranger12]

Oh is it Rant Time already 🤩 The philosophy behind that..... I don't know any. But I do know that technically Maruki is making a good decision. But not only is he just oppressing life itself he isn't even doing it because he's a good person. He's doing it purely so he doesn't have to feel pain anymore. Being a Phantom Thief I've learned that the bad times yeah they suck. And there will always be bad times but that's the only way to truly live life, by embracing the good and bad. Why the Thieves reject Maruki reality is because they want to be able to make their own decisions and believe everyone else should to. Which I'm a technical sense makes them the bad guys. The Thieves never said they were necessarily good guys though. Joker Persona is literally a Demon Thief that turns into Satan. The point is that they follow their beliefs and don't want anyone to tell them what to do. Even if it means having to go through the most depressing events in their lives to do it. In the words of Ryuji.." I was just being defiant". Which I can definitely get behind me😎😎😎

[@robopandakittycat]

4:36 NEEDS a SPOILER warning. I’ve completed persona five and came to watch an analysis on that and I am about 20 hours into p4g and 80 hours into p3r. I’ve been avoiding p3/p4 content for this reason, and most other persona five videos gives spoiler warnings for content of other games. I understand the material is referential but damn you just dropped that one outta nowhere. A lot of us in the persona community are playing the games backwards from five as our entry point. I had some suspicions about that character before but now you just told me. Investigations over. Feels bad man.

[@levi0394]

Even though he is an amazing character, on 3:31 he looks really stupid 😂

[@ParadoxRecoil]

Top tier

[@rainycurve]

welp i just got spoiled on p4

[@potatosapien8765]

Can I just say, what the fuck is the point of having a spoiler warning, IF YOU ONLY WARN ME ABOUT ONE OF THE GAMES YOU'RE GOING TO SPOIL!

[@_Kaori_Miyazono_]

Yeah

[@trevorfranks69]

Mood

[@c.hazz266]

Great Video. Spoiler for viewers but isn't Akechi still alive? Don't we see him at the end of the game walking away from the train?

[@ousmitgaming1246]

Yea we do but in strikers the whole royal timeline is wiped out so we can't tell

[@oimate6357]

No he is dead That was just a reference to a previous persona game

[@ousmitgaming1246]

@@oimate6357 which one ?

[@Balfour715]

@@ousmitgaming1246 Strikers and Royal were made at the same time. Nothing in strikers makes it so Royal could not have happened. Its simply omitted to avoid spoilers as in Japan these games released within 4 months of each other. Making it so you gotta buy both.

[@ousmitgaming1246]

I suppose ur right

[@Her_Imperious_Condescension]

I want to watch this video but only a minute in and "Mawuki" is already really grating

[@xwds2095]

I like this but damn you need to lay back on the long ass words. Sounds like a documentary lmao