Fighting Game stages that are BANNED in tournaments

[@RandoBox]

I just now realized that every UMvC3 clip i have seen is that stage.

[@zergusjack9636]

So did I

[@colebrowning]

Me too

[@Tinil0]

Same! It's crazy I never realized that!

[@joelramos1366]

I always thought it was a matter of preference. Now I know. Too bad, I really like a lot of the stages in that game.

[@jesuisunstroopwafel]

Not every clip, but close enough.

[@bhglghb]

The decision to ban training stage in sf6 is the single best decision that has ever been made in relation to Street Fighter and fighting games in general.

[@EZharmonize]

Completely agree. Training stage killed my enjoyment of watching kof 15 tournaments. So many good stages in that game but all you’ll ever see is the training stage. Even in SF5 CPT events they used a mod so the viewers got to see different stages while the players were actually playing on training stage.

[@uxi3901]

it sorta sucks for me. i have a pretty old PC and training stage is the only stage that runs smoothly. if i play online I am pretty much forced to select it if i dont want any frame drops.

[@Igor_Derlatka]

I'm Pretty sure capcom had a tool in sfv which showed the spectators online a different stage than the professionals. They should Just bring it back and allow the players to pick the stage they're the most comfortable with, even if it is Just a Gray box.

[@ronald_grinder]

I didn't know it was banned but I am glad to hear it is

[@pian-0g445]

@@uxi3901if you’re on pc, there may be a ‘potato’ mod which decreases the quality of levels allowing you to play the game at a stable 60. I don’t actually know if KOF15 does, but many pc fighters now have these mods

[@GlitchanBlack]

UMvC3: "Players can only play on Bonne Wonderland." Smash 64: "First time?"

[@JDXTHEKID]

Underrated comment award.

[@odioalospoopers]

tfw even the single allowed stage in 64 has issues but the rest are THAT janky for competitive

[@emilystewart6175]

​@@odioalospoopersSo I don't know about the competitive scene for Smash 64 (though I did play it a lot as a kid) can I ask about the banned stages and why they're banned?

[@odioalospoopers]

@@emilystewart6175 competitive smash in general still tries to minimize non-player interference, and the other stages are just too gimmicky to be functional in a competitive enviroment

[@emilystewart6175]

​@@odioalospoopersAhhhh gotcha. That does make sense. Thanks for explaining!

[@nevvawinter7331]

Ironically, the “song that goes with everything” can’t be used for anything lol

[@AHFB]

there are huge parts of the guile theme that are nearly 1:1 with a t-square song called "travelers." same deal w/kens song basically being "mighty wings" by cheap trick.

[@Minchken]

@@AHFB Toto-Africa?

[@Lixo6504-n8n]

@@AHFBWOW! I didn't know that. Both are, indeed, very similar to the, errr... songs being homaged :) On the Street Fighter composer's defense, it was like he went "what if we take these two songs, take away the crappy parts and make them awesome?"

[@EstebanBrenesV]

@@Lixo6504-n8n I would argue the originals are better, the others are more loopy because they are stage themes

[@xetsuma]

"Let's see how long this stage is in Lei-Lei hops." Americans will use anything but the Metric System...

[@beowulf8878]

Everything should be measured using Lei-Lei hops It would make things so much simpler

[@sinned6us]

As an American I prefer the U.S standard of bald eagles

[@DFloyd84]

@@sinned6us I thought the American standard was football fields.

[@sinned6us]

@@DFloyd84 which is a little over 100 bald eagles

[@juanospitia]

God blessed american lei-lei hops

[@GreenChillZone]

Krauser's stage in certain SNK games also gets flagged because of Dies Irae playing in the background. Even though the piece is public domain, someone's performance of it must be in the Content ID system where it trips a flag. It's unfortunate, because having an entire orchestra playing in the background while you fight is badass.

[@BJGvideos]

Sounds like bots to me

[@DirectorHatman]

Some dipshits called Franz bleed band have been doing this for more than a decade

[@locke103]

​@@BJGvideos could be. Dunno how, but a Spanish record label nailed an FF7R video of mine.

[@tammid8423]

Shit is literally fuckin PUBLIC DOMAIN WHAT THE HELL

[@BJGvideos]

@@tammid8423 Individual performances may not be. But claims still seem to come from bots more than actual holders

[@Houldey]

i didn't know they banned the training stage in sf6 - good call imo, they really are boring af during tournaments. Plus - so much work goes into stage design, such a waste to never show them off.

[@malcovich_games]

Due to frame drops on every other stage, SF5 training stage was the only stage that worked properly. But yeah I'm glad SF6 is like "nope, we optimized the s*** outta this game this time"!

[@Micha-Hil]

AFAIK training stages get banned to avoid repetition. Because of viewership, casual players don't really wanna see players fight in the same padded cell over and over

[@vangoghsseveredear]

I'm so glad that era is over. Like, not even that long ago, all you would see in tournaments were training stages, it was awful

[@leithaziz2716]

I also just hate that there's nothing to look at besides a white box of a room. Some games like Xrd and MVC3 get more creative with the idea of training stages, but it's a shame you never get to watch the game pop with color. A game like Strive doesn't even have a training stage, but pro players always pick the darkest stage that's most drab of colors (Zato's stage to be precise) because it's the least likely to lag with not much performance drops.

[@shadowseal22]

​@@leithaziz2716Council of Three is mostly picked because it both has the best visual indicators of screen position in all sections, but mostly because it's the best stage for visibility (and especially if people have colorblindness). Several stages have identical performance, but usually have some kind of issue on one of the three sections, or have contrast issues.

[@stealphiee]

it's you, again.

[@Wingnut202]

My favorite part about tuning into an SFV tournament was seeing someone fight their hallucination opponent in solitary confinement. Really loved pros picking it over and over and over

[@NeilMacay]

In Tekken 4, every stage bar the Arena stage is barred due the insane amount of jank combo potential with walls and ceilings in that game.

[@leithaziz2716]

Some stages like the forest also had uneven terrain, which led to some awkward interactions.

[@brokentoaster4231]

even the Arena still has some goofy shit, with many characters being able to just juggle you around the cage walls multiple times over lmao

[@MechaG]

Why not use Hon-maru?

[@puya2878]

Think it was Jwong who said back when the game was new there was one guy who rocked up to the tournament and kept hiding behind the pillars in the parking garage stage till he got the time out. Apparently that's what made everyone see how broken that shit is.

[@THENAMEISQUICKMAN]

Let's just say that even back in the day when Tekken 4 was the newest game there was a reason a sizeable chunk of the Tekken community said "you know what, fuck that, we're gonna keep playing Tag 1."

[@xenobazilla]

10:00 The name of the game is "STREET Fighter" and not "Cartesian Coordinator" so it's very much understandable. We fight on the Streets and not on graphing paper

[@AirLancer]

Dark Ash's Stage, aka The White Stage in KOF XIII. It's just almost completely blinding white, making it painful to look at, and any character with a white/light-colored fireball suddenly gets a near-invisible fireball. Also, it just felt like that stage had a higher chance of coming up whenever you'd pick random stage, but that's probably just because it's more notable since then you'd have to go back and do everything over.

[@MusicoftheDamned]

That stage being a pain to look at amusingly fits Saiki being a little bitch from beyond the (never to exist) grave. Doubly funny given Mukai's, Shion's, and Magaki's stages were all visually fine.

[@MusicoftheDamned]

That stage being a pain to look at amusingly fits Saiki being a little bitch from beyond the (never to exist) grave. Doubly funny given Mukai's, Shion's, and Magaki's stages were all visually fine.

[@phillipians4139]

Also, Rugal's stage (Omega) is very creepy on a few levels in 95 kof. I don't know if it is banned or not, but it definitely ruins my performance.

[@agt_pendergast8899]

That's unfortunate to hear about Darlkstalkers. Fetus of God is one of my top 10 favorite fighting game stages.

[@GlitchanBlack]

Hey, Darkstalkers fans are better off than Smash 64 players - those people are still paying their price for not listening to SaBoom about banning Hyrule Castle before the Tacna 2014 Incident.

[@heardofrvb]

​@@GlitchanBlackWhat happened?

[@zelassin]

​@@heardofrvb a match lasted 50 minutes because the stage was so broken, it allowed one player to stall for time infinitely

[@heardofrvb]

@@zelassin Oh wow. I gotta see that.

[@kamudo999]

what is the stage name? is it really that?

[@mileso.2657]

I'm a Smash player, so banning the crazy stages is normal to me, although there are a few otherwise competitively viable stages that are banned for interesting reasons similar to the ones in this video like Northern Cave. I like the stage a lot and there's no hazards or a wacky layout, but it's banned due to colourblind players having a very hard time seeing on that stage (plus the background is pretty distracting). It was interesting to learn why MvC3 matches were always played on the snow stage, I always wondered why lol.

[@leithaziz2716]

Then you had Smash 64, where every single stage had its own set of problems

[@ControlShifty]

Coney talked about this recently and how Warioware should be legal adding some interesting stage picking for characters who kill off the sides easier compared to off the top.

[@mileso.2657]

@@leithaziz2716 I wonder if 64 players ever get tired of playing on Dreamland lol

[@ThatGuyCalledSteeve]

I think Northern cavern is banned cos of copyright as well

[@dznutskong]

@@mileso.2657 I mean Ult players have so many stage options and they all just pick PS2 lmao, I'm sure they don't. Especially knowing the next best alternative is Hyrule Castle which has had massive issues in the past

[@arkz-nero9674]

In DoA5, training stage is banned because its the only stage that is endless, which can create advantages for certain matchups.

[@lilliangoulston5706]

Funnily enough, Smash DOES have a stage that's banned for performance issues... but only in Ultimate. Fountain of Dreams has this beautiful look with reflective puddles on the ground. But in Smash Ultimate, those reflections cause frame drops. Nintendo consoles are not exactly workhorses. In Melee, the reflections on the stage are fake. Since it's not actually calculating reflections, there's no slowdown. And the layout is totally fine for competitive play, so it's one of Melee's few legal stages! Shame it's banned in Ultimate. Maybe if there's a Switch Pro soon, we'll get to see it?

[@limerick9146]

FoD has slowdown problems in Melee too, but it's only really a problem in doubles.

[@elijahbrock7676]

Ult FoD would just be a smaller battlefield clone because hazards off makes the platforms stay in one place. I doubt we’ll ever see it

[@joelsmemes4140]

FoD is banned in doubles because of Ice Climbers cause frame drops

[@jongaraizar5798]

that stage is so hard to look at. thank god

[@yugimumoto1]

Likely not since that means venues have to buy all new switch consoles and that's a ton of money just for one stage made legal

[@mptyyegdlc]

Here's some interesting tournament rules I've found on an old MK9 forum: Kratos & Kratos' stage are banned: randomly shakes mid match and can mess up combos amongst other things. No game breaking glitches. This is an FGC wide rule for all games, including but not limited to "The Invisibility" glitch performed between rounds to alter collision detection. The Street stage banned: vehicles driving by blind players from projectiles, etc. Do not use the Hell stage. The stage lags character animations. Do not use the Wastelands stage. The stage drops Jump Kicks. For any colorblind players, use The Courtyard (Day)

[@onaled515]

It’s interesting that street fighter 5 has banned stages since the game was made for tournaments. I was thinking that the baby stage in dark stalkers ban was because of the actual demon baby thing. Go figure.

[@executor45]

That is absolutely crazy that only snow Bonne's stage is for mvc3. Now that I think about all the videos I've watched, all mvc3 tourneys have been played on that stage! Didn't even realize it!

[@Branflakes-lq6wq]

Danger Room and Training Room are not banned.

[@Ergeniz]

@@Branflakes-lq6wq What's wrong with Daily Bugle and Metro City though.

[@Bubbble_Bear]

​@@Ergenizlag maybe?

[@illford]

@@Bubbble_Bear they can lag the game out depending on who is running the game because it's mostly played over parsec now

[@illford]

@@Branflakes-lq6wq it is at some places, i know it was banned at Evo 2023,CEO 2024 and COMBO BREAKER 2024 as well so IDK where you got the rule that it's not banned from

[@chaosboi6815]

One thing I'm liking about modern fighting games is that the stages are becoming more stable and less laggy, I like seeing/playing in other stages :)

[@Retromatize]

Training being banned is so good. I hated how every SF5 match would just be The Grid / Training Room. It was horrible.

[@laquonwesley7740]

I love competitive fighting but I hope it doesn’t destroy creativity. Yeah I like my balance stages but I love seeing stages going crazy and and wacky. Keeps me entertained.

[@matty18972]

Guile's stage is probably banned in Japan because the theme is a knockoff of the famous Japanese jazz fusion group T-Square's song "Travelers"

[@maximepaccalet4449]

It's a blatant knock off but it apparently is sufficiently tweaked from the original that Capcom has never had troubles with T-square till now, even with sf2 re-releases, so i don't think that would be the reason for banning the stage in tournaments... 🤔

[@AHFB]

@@maximepaccalet4449 a band that old has probably dealt with multiple different rights holders. it could be a one-off that owns a live version of the performance, or someone getting the rights in another country or something

[@Rocket1377]

No, its not a knock off. Guile's theme is far more uptempo, and any similarity is just a coincidence.

[@EstebanBrenesV]

@@Rocket1377 it has the same strings of notes at times, and it is audibly recognizable it is also the same thing with mighty wings of top gun and ken, the composer did ued them as a base, I am not complaining but the similarities are there and are undeniable

[@ultimateman55]

IIRC I think Mysterious Cove was banned on SFV because of performance issues on PS4. I could be wrong though. I just remember performance being worst on that stage and it's daytime equivalent.

[@GarethXL]

Yes, cove increase delay by quite a lot

[@chupasaurus]

Same with Field of Lag

[@malcovich_games]

All the SF5 pros swear that all stages have frame drops except The Grid. If they had a choice, it's the only stage that'll be allowed.

[@ElToland]

I always thought that the "Fetus of God" Stage in DS was banned because of it's almost all red and characters with similar color palettes would be difficult to see, and not because it's wider than the other stages. I learned something new today xD

[@BearWith_You]

I assumed it was banned just cause its a fetus. Sensitive topics and all that

[@BJGvideos]

​@@BearWith_YouHow is a fetus a sensitive topic? Everyone was a fetus once.

[@BearWith_You]

@@BJGvideos Its a big ass red fetus that isn't normal

[@DCBiscuit]

@@BJGvideos Something something “leftists ideology.”

[@RENEG4DE4NGEL]

Fetus is literally just Latin for "baby".

[@SCC_Herring]

huge agree with no training stage. It's not just boring but it's also a crutch for people who use the grid for their spacing/footsies, which I think is super lame.

[@someguyinatshirt]

Thank you for teaching me that everyone sees a different stage in SF6 Online. I always had it on random to try and be nice to other players and give myself some variety. Might have to go pick a favourite stage now.

[@Triforce_of_Doom]

oh yeah I was so happy when that feature was revealed leading up to release. I already just use random (with Training banned when allowed because I like flashy stages) anyways for variety but knowing I don't ever have to worry about someone picking Training & seeing it on my screen is so nice.

[@Howl_3DN]

I think an honorable mention could got to Sadira’s stage in KI. It’s often banned in onlines because a giant spider jumps into the background and it is unsettling for some.

[@prrocker9637]

This I get imagine a player with arachnophobia jumping out their seat and running because a spider showed up mid set

[@milliondollarmistake]

@@prrocker9637 just adapt

[@just-linx8271]

"Parry the arachnophobia"

[@FiltiarnYT]

I play KI and I did not know that

[@FallingStar1080]

​@@prrocker9637pathetic

[@klumzeejeff]

Nice video. I'd love to see more of this. I think that the night version of the Shaolin Temple stage in Mortal Kombat X was banned in tournament. If I'm remembering right it was due to a mix of it being really dark and having a lightning storm going on that was genuinely distracting for players.

[@mattpk1609]

100% agree with the training stage rule. I think every fighting game should include a clean, low background clutter stage that isnt a grid (i think Sf6 has that in the Nayshall stage - hands down my favorite). If i was design lead i would even go as far and try to give training stages a visual style like maybe a Dojo with floor tiles that indicate distances or to stay in SF6: Lukes training hall couldve been perfect.

[@falo4043]

I love watching KOF XV but every single tournament is on the freaking training stage it makes me not want to watch it. I usually just watch high level layer replays instead of tournaments because theya ctually fight on regular stages, adn the game has gorgeous stages too the 2 beach stages+ the snow stage are some of my favorites from recent fighting games

[@malcovich_games]

I think I like the CVS2, SFxT and the MVC3 training stages. They're not too bland! Thumbs up on Nayshall. Do we have the night version for online play? I don't think we do... I also like the simple layout of Cammy's SF2/5 stage too. Maybe Gill's SF3 stages as well (all three of them!).

[@SilverTheExe27]

Something like the Dojo of Dan in SFV?

[@glacierwolf2155]

You know, I've never really seen a game try to incorporate the grid floor into other stages in a natural manner. It would be a bit difficult but promotes creativity into their designs.

[@justingoers]

For a game designed from the bottom up for the esports world SFV sure made a lot of bad decisions. Costumes and stages that were banned all over and really sloppy rematch menu that took over a year to get fixed.

[@randomprotag9329]

I am suprised that there not a clean version stages like the beach one which turned the waves off.

[@justingoers]

or just make the translucent...like water...@@randomprotag9329

[@illford]

tbf im happy SFV did have it's weird costume i think fighting games are too scared to add more casual stuff in in fear of not being esports and that's half the reason they aren't more successful

[@okishop3477]

The Darkstalker stage reminds me of EVO2013 MK9 grand finals. Players are allowed to switch stage after a loss. One player was a "zoner" and the other a "rushdown." So you can tell what happened between losses. This is one of my favorite grand finals of EVO.

[@davidrosensin7985]

Was that the one the dude playing Cyrax won? If it was that set was crazy.

[@THENAMEISQUICKMAN]

A stage I would think would be banned would be Duck King's stage in Fatal Fury Special. It has INSANE strobing and flashing effects, clearly meant for a CRT, but playing it on a modern TV is legitimately painful.

[@lajenehuen260]

I didn't know the flashing effects in games looked different in CRTs. I just thought the devs liked flashing lights a bit too much

[@KetsubanSolo]

​@@lajenehuen260 basically flashing on older games takes advantage of imperfections on CRTs, usually to fake transparencies. On modern TVs it's very possible to see, say, Ryu's fireballs in SF2 blinking in and out rapidly. So yeh, it was still a little rough to look at back then, but not as bad as when you watch it on a modern TV.

[@lajenehuen260]

@@KetsubanSolo Ah. Thanks!

[@CptJistuce]

​@@KetsubanSoloPhosphor persistence was a thing, but more than that was the high contrast afforded by CRTs creating a stronger persistence of vision effect. Lot of LCDs have more persistence issues, but the effect still looks wrong due to the lower persistence in the eye. But some devs did in fact just like flashing lights too much.

[@KKHell]

The stage intro alone should be enough to convince people to ban it.

[@datbo7974]

Man, I would love to see more of this. Stuff like this is always interesting

[@z0d603]

My biggest surprise was for Dark Stalkers. I thought Lei-Lei was Hsien-Ko's sister. Is this a localisation thing like Boxer/Claw/Dictator is SF?

[@Arassar]

Yup

[@kl1thedominion]

It's a localization change. In the English versions of the game Lei-Lei's name was changed to Hsien-ko and her sister (Lin-Lin) had her name changed to Mei-Ling.

[@z0d603]

I even got the sister's name wrong.. =) Thanks@@kl1thedominion

[@DmnHd81]

​@@kl1thedominion wonder why they changed the names along with some of the others. it's kinda unnecessary.

[@sabishiihito]

@@DmnHd81Capcom USA was just extra in the 90s.

[@Arassar]

Banning Training Stage in SF6 was a fantastic decision.

[@oldboone]

I don't think we ever banned it back in the day, but Yoshimitsu's stage in SoulCalibur 1 is a ring-out festival.

[@SeiryuuX]

There are so many stages in the SoulCalibur series that are ring out festivals. The desert one in 6 comes to mind

[@lordflashheart3741]

Indeed, but in SC, that is just part of the game. Also, the characters that best take advantage of the easy wins from Ring-outs are usually on the slower side. Usually....

[@sgw5428]

Ah, SC 1, from what I can remember, very easy to get ring out in that game, like the game doesn't have invisible walls.

[@Xenocr0ss]

Little Copyright tidbit for Smash: The last added DLC Stage "Hollow Bastion", which was added with the Sora DLC, features a good competitive layout to play on, but there is a song on the stage called "Destati" which is/was infamous for triggering the KZbin Copyright System. I myself got hit by strikes a lot already so we omitted the song from our tournament via ban and removing the song from the random song select, for which you first have to clear the single-player mode (weird but thats the big n). Several tournaments have banned the stage all together because they couldnt seem to figure it out. Weirdly enough theres no other song in Smash which seemed to behave like that so far.

[@BJGvideos]

That sounds like an issue with bots and people bending to them instead of appealing is ridiculous

[@Xenocr0ss]

@@BJGvideos normally id agree, but post-production after a tournament is pretty stressful, and having to appeal multiple strikes only further intensifies that. thats something you submit to the necessary people once, and then wait it out until its possible to post again. So far that only happened to one song in the entirety of smash ultimate as far as i can remember, so its not a big hassle to circumvent, in comparison to the other possible outcomes

[@NAFEDUDE]

You don't have to clear story mode to change song selection rates, that's only for the menu music.

[@Xenocr0ss]

@@NAFEDUDE excuse my mistake, its been 5 years. Still it was a hassle to circumvent it.

[@DarkAura19]

It's always been interesting to me that Tekken has never really had an issue with banning stages. Besides platform fighters and Soul Calibur, it's one of the only long running series I see that can kinda sway the match based on stages picked, especially stuff like Geese's stage in 7. I'd have to imagine there's some characters who excell at corner carrying or ground bounces and such that might make it more favorable for them to be on one stage vs. Another, but if I'm not mistaken, Tekken tourneys usually just go random for stages? Obviously it doesn't matter to the same extent as a game like Smash NEARLY as much, but still.

[@jmcrofts]

yea stage choice is random in tournaments, but the loser of the first game has the option to stay on the same stage or reselect a new random one

[@vangoghsseveredear]

Starts random, and then the loser can select a stage for the rematch. It's why you see infinite stages a lot in T7, because some chars really benefit from wall combos. So if your char doesn't, but the opponent does, you select an infinite stage and take that advantage from them

[@DarkAura19]

Yeah, that all makes complete sense. All the more reason that it somehow avoiding the banhammer is all the more impressive, honestly!

[@MasterScrub]

​@@DarkAura19 I feel like in part it's due to the fact that because the stage actually makes a difference and isn't just aesthetic, the devs are more aware of any potential issues they might have from a competitive standpoint.

[@GreenChillZone]

Tekken had a massive problem with stages in 4. They took after Virtua Fighter 3's uneven terrain and while it made the stages much more interesting, it also caused a lot of janky interactions with juggles. Player 1 and 2 would also often start at different heights or different positions relative to walls, so to avoid giving an advantage the octagon was the only legal stage.

[@AceLeader101]

If I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure smash also tends to ban stages for copyright reasons. Not actual full on stages, but the fd and battlefield versions of stages. I'm pretty sure that's the reason why most official venues don't allow you to just play random omega, as that has a chance of pulling up a stage with copyrighted music which can get vods claimed.

[@33link333]

In the newer games you can change what stages pop up with random selection, and change what music can appear on what stage. So copyrighted music should never be a problem in Ultimate.

[@yawg691]

Except in the Kingdom Hearts stage. I believe bigger tournies use a mod to replace the copyright music because whenever someone in chat says "Wait how is this music on this stage??" the entire chat tells them to shut up and stop talking about it because of Nintendo lmao @@33link333

[@Intothevoid-NIB]

I don't know about Ultimate, but in Smash 4, it was just because the Omega stages were not the same as FD proper. They'd have differently shaped blast lines, and, in some cases, the platform would just be shaped differently. For example, on the Pikmin stage, the platform was a solid rectangle that extended all the way to the bottom blast zone instead of being a floating platform, which obviously helped characters with wall jumps a bit more.

[@AcidGlow]

Australian Outback / Field of Fate will be my favorite stage since alpha 2 / animated movie

[@aspenaf]

I love videos about stages! I feel like they get ignored so often but are so interesting. Love your work JM.

[@ne0n1nja247]

More games need to ban training stages. In fact keep them training exclusive so people stop getting so comfortable with positioning with line

[@gyrokidoki]

id agree if it wasnt for training stages being the only stage some people can run on their pcs. i didnt understand till my gpu broke so had to use an old one that got below 30fps on every sf6 stage besides the training stage

[@ppprime98K]

@@gyrokidoki but this isn't for regular gameplay, this is about tournament play. And you can easily mod games to accomodate these kind of things, "potato" mods exist for a reason.

[@screamingcactus1753]

@@ppprime98K Personally, if there's a feature in a game that makes it possible for people to play who otherwise couldn't, I don't think there being a mod that could replace it is a good reason to get rid of it. Just ban training stages in tournaments and leave it at that.

[@JarlBarbossa]

​@@gyrokidokiI'm not sympathetic. Either you gave the device to play the game or you should play something else.

[@gyrokidoki]

@@ppprime98K im not talking about banning them, online tourneys let you use any stage you want anyways. hes saying they should completely remove training stages from being a choice, i said thats a bad idea for the reason of people who dont have the hardware to play

[@LawPoppy]

no wonder i always see that marvel map everytime i watch tns

[@RoundShades]

As a Megaman Legends fan, it pains me every one of the 27 times you said Bone Wonderland. The Bonne family airpirates are the source for Tron Bonne, the character in mvc3, and not only is it pronounced "Baun", but bone is one of the infamous English book translations for i think the prima strategy guide

[@_kuae_]

Was looking for this. I couldn’t be the only one. I was like “if you say BONE one more time…..”

[@RosalinaSama]

considering the name comes from the instrument, which is pronounced like that, its not an unreasonable guess

[@crppledizzle9374]

3:51 you're right, covering up juri's feet is an absolute travesty

[@TwilightRO1]

Damn i was about to comment this. I'm 2 months late.

[@SmellyCandle42]

I've always loved the Tulips stage in Tekken Tag Tournament 2 but it's never played competitively because it tanks the frame rate. Although now I wonder if the Snoop Dogg stage could cause copyright problems. The credits don't mention any licenses for it but it was also removed from Tekken 7. Hard to say.

[@JAnne_Bonne]

I know in Blazblue Cross Tag Battle, more than a few TOs opt to ban the Persona 4 stages because on knockdown and certain harder hits (like Burst), static will overtake certain stage elements, which can cause minor lag and mess up oki options. Most Japanese tournaments I watch end up sticking to the RWBY stage (if not only that one), the UNIST harbor and subway stage, and the Arcana Heart school stage.

[@666blaziken]

If I was a TO for SF5, I would've made that Vega stage the only one legal to give Vega a fighting chance against the rest of the cast in every match he plays.

[@hotzauhse]

Funny thing is people barely played Vega tho 😂

[@666blaziken]

@@hotzauhse I imagine that the 2 vega players in a local would suggest that if they meet in bracket, they'll gentlemen to the vega stage so they can do their shenanigans.

[@hotzauhse]

@@666blaziken it would be stupid funny 😂😂😂

[@larquefausse3623]

The Injustice music getting videos demonetized I don't agree with, but I can see why it would trigger copyright claims since WB also has a sizeable music company. Although, it should theoretically also apply to the MK games as well.

[@Blitz0506]

A lot of players still cheesed in Bonne wonderland in UMVC Either picking an all white color set for their team or Trish players taking advantage of peekaboo traps visibility on the stage 😂

[@Chadius]

Or they play the Herald costumes which is a metallic chrome white. Usually tournaments will ban that costume, though.

[@nemoisnobody]

I didn't know that Guile's stage triggers KZbin copyright strikes. It doesn't surprise me because "Guile's Theme Goes With Everything" was a very popular meme, so there's no doubt there's a lot of covers. Or maybe KZbin wanted the meme to end at one point not much unlike "Rick-Roll".

[@SOBEKCrocodileGod]

The first banned stage that comes to mind for me is “Gehenna” from Skullgirls. A stage literally banned for being too disturbing and triggering trypophobia. It was also removed from random stage selection.

[@Issala_]

Why would KZbin flag the word "fetus" lol

[@Mortified42]

Because the left kills them and the right thinks they are the start of life (its not)

[@ChiefyIndian]

I can think of a few reasons.

[@nickolaskaaay3232]

I honestly never even made the connection but I realized I really was always seeing Bonne Wonderland when I was watching UMvC3. Great video :)

[@sethnewton870]

Banning Training stage is based. Hate that stage as a spectator.

[@AthanasiosJapan]

Guile's stage music is heavily inspired by Top Gun's song Mighty Wings.

[@DJcream13]

All Street Fighter 2 stages run at different game speeds. If you were to have all of the round timers on different stages running at the same time, Zangief stage would time out quicker than all the other stages. Tournaments have settled on Cammy stage being the default game speed so it's the one you see picked at tournaments. Fun fact, when Tokido won SF2 at EVO 2007, he would pick Claw on Gief stage. Since Gief stage runs fastest, Claw wall dives were faster and even more ambigious to defend against.

[@kikasuru3826]

Ryougi's stage in MBAACC was banned for a similar reason to Guile's stage, there's been reports of Twitch streams that get copyrighted when that song is playing.

[@tchotcholetakahashi7362]

I remember Tekken Tag 2, ppl were complaining about PLUCKING TULIPS stage because they can't read the low :(

[@ithinkihaveebola5238]

I really like the stages on marvel 3. It sucks they can't utilize it in tournaments

[@r1konTheAutomator]

7:22 - you can see JM's head slightly bopping to each count in the fast forward, it's pretty awesome :D

[@siegfriedc2332]

Not a tourney guy, but i kind of like the idea of fg with character specific stages being designed to help said character in a way (i e. Vega's stage). Imagine for example, of a zoner's stage had longer boundaries, or a grappler had shorter ones. Would be quite intriguing to do an arcade mode run like this.

[@athena9029]

UMvC3 on 360 didn't have such bans, in fact, when 360 was the tournament standard the most used stage was Training Room (just check all EVO finals) but pools for EVO and other tournaments would have no such ban. You can find lots of matches taking place in Asgard, Hand Hideout, Tricell Laboratory, Danger Room, etc. Even in the FT15 between FChamp vs KBR, they switched from Bonne Wonderland to Danger Room then to S.H.I.E.L.D. Air Show, then to Asgard and finished the set in BW. Bonne Wonderland only became a thing because of the PS3's poor performance with multiple stages. This wasn't exclusive to UMvC3, it also happened in games like MK9 where Hell Stage was strictly banned on PS3.

[@QuiqueEnciso]

About the training stage ban, it is half true that it's banned because of boring or no background at all. AFAIK the main reason for training stage to be banned is because of the actual grids and meassurements it provides. Some people could tell exactly when an attack would whiff or hit or space themselves correctly if they are allowed to have the grids. At high level gameplay this is not an issue given how well the players know their distances, but there are some very specific players who would exploit the units on the stage to zone even better.

[@blazaybla22]

That doesn’t make any sense to me at all and I don’t believe it’s true (will happily admit I’m wrong if I see a source but for now it’s just my opinion). The biggest upside of the training stage for a tournament would be the incredibly precise play it could provide for. It’s just very very difficult for me to see that as something any tournament planner would view as a negative.

[@curioustrout]

That's not at all why Training Stage was banned, it isn't an issue when both players can see the grid. Training Stage was banned by Capcom itself specifically because it wasn't good for spectating. Capcom Cup also has online tournaments where both players can pick what stage they see, and Training Stage is allowed, so it isn't about any advantage.

[@ToastyYokai]

Holy shit, this was a good video JM. I didnt know any of these and was genuinely shocked by most of the reasons, very reasonable reasons

[@tldreview]

Why oh why would fetus would be a tagged word for monetization issues? Is youtube really that strict?

[@VoidEternal]

Came here just to agree. Fuck Training Stage. After watching SFV's tournament lifetime I don't wanna see this on the big screen ***EVER AGAIN***

[@carsonthething4519]

3rd strike stages apparently also differ slightly in length. Ibuki's stage and Urien's stage feel short and Ken/Alex's feels slightly longer. I saw an image once with full screen images of the stages that showed this.

[@N5O1]

2:36 I never get bored of the training room. I actually love it

[@eljugadorescaldenc4002]

I love the idea to use Hsienko to measure the stage length. The idea to ban training stage was a very good idea.

[@macsweene]

i have also heard some arguments that stages with a grid or repeating pattern can give an advantage to some characters who have moves that fit within the pattern as a sort of way of measuring if a move will connect.

[@AdaKillaBaby]

In KOF XV the training stage should be banned too in the ranked mode

[@Bingo_the_Pug]

That Darkstalkers stage “Fetus of God” is metal as fuck, literally nothing else like it, but I see why it’s banned in some countries because it can be viewed as blasphemous & offensive in certain cultures

[@enderethan229]

Platform Fighter fans when their stage has platforms

[@PizzaguyJeff]

Having to ban stages because of music just makes me hate how insane copyright laws are.

[@FantasyYeet]

What if its Vega vs Vega hahahahah! I think that stage should be allowed

[@666blaziken]

I imagine vega mains gentleman to that stage in the extremley rare occurance that 2 people who actually decided to main vega actually end up playing each other in tournament... Would be very hype though.

[@huntercoleherr]

The Smash community bans well over half the entire game. I'm not a fighting game player, so maybe there's just stuff I don't know, but it always seemed odd to me that players of the genre absolutely refuse to allow anything that isn't 100% predictable. The response usually seems to be that they want it to be entirely skill-based, which is fine, but there's no better test of skill than having to react to something you didn't see coming. Shouldn't the ability to adapt to the unexpected be a factor? It certainly makes spectatorship more interesting when a clever player can make use of an unexpected event to gain an advantage, or for an opponent to be forced to use skill to adapt to it. As it is, especially with smash, it might as well just be a Rock/Paper/Scissors tournament.

[@notyours807]

Can we get banned costumes/skins next?

[@Tinil0]

I just learned that apparently JM pronounces Tron Bonne "Tron Bone"

[@jackg6887]

Shoutouts to SF4 volcano stage basically being banned by public vote. Best friend was a viper main flame kicks god damn invisible

[@Chadius]

Street Fighter 3 Third Strike has a fight on the African Savanna during sunset. Everything is red, everything is life, why did you let Makoto wear her red gi?

[@BenMarcWilliams]

Talking about stages that are too wide or have vague corners reminds me of Shuma-Gorath's stage in Marvel Super Heroes. If you throw someone at the corner of that stage enough times, the wall breaks, and the stage stops having corners at all; it just loops back around on itself.

[@Seydaschu]

Training stages are super boring, but if they want pro players to use grid-lines to gauge distance, they could just have an option to overlay grid-lines on all stages! It wouldn't have to be diagetic, it'd just be superimposed like the "first down" line in American football shows.

[@Rocket1377]

Gridlines on training stages should be banned. All that does is reduce the amount of skill required. If a player cannot judge the distance between their character and the opponent, they shouldn't be in a tournament. It's like having training wheels on a bike.

[@KKHell]

I feel like Fetus of God was also banned because... nobody really wants to look at that. It certainly is a fighting game stage of all time.

[@ClexYoshi]

Capcom banning Training Stage is SO BASED.

[@MforMovesets]

SF2: Time to skip a stage or we're gonna get demonetized. Any Mortal Kombat: Hold my Bloody Mary.

[@pur3d3m0n67]

if im being honest im glad they banned the Training Stage, so many games hold tournaments even EVO where its just the training stage over and over and makes the fight un enjoyable to watch especially when you have games like SF6 where the player base pla only like 4 or 5 characters out of the whole roster so if you watch 5 matches where its the same 2 fighters on the same stage over and over it gets super boring

[@marscaleb]

KZbin copyright claims are stupid and broken. I uploaded a video of playing the Ocarina of Time remake, and I got notified about a copyright claim against. Because it's copyright to Nintendo, right? WRONG. The "copyright holder" was some kid in Burma or something who was singing along to the Kokiri Forest music in the original Ocarina of Time. That one random kid apparently owns all the copyright to anyone uploading a video showing the forest in Ocarina of time!

[@Zetact_]

You'd think that with the massive push to esports and online play that there would be a very easy fix to keep stages that are balanced while also giving spectators visual variety. Just have the main input of the game with a competitive stage go to the players and the output of the game able to give the spectators a different stage. That said I do think that the tick markers on Training Room are, while they provide an equal advantage to both players, something that I don't think is a support structure that really should be present in a tournament setting.

[@midorixiv]

Ryougi's stage in melty blood actress again is also banned in tournaments because of copyright claim issues, the bgm is the main theme of the kara no kyoukai movies and I guess that triggers the youtube copyright machine

[@Windraesa]

Why can't you say foetus on youtube?

[@GilMeansJoy]

This was totally interesting. It came up in my recs, and I instantly thought, "random topic I've never thought about? yes plz!"

[@SourSlurpee]

FOLKS

[@rastas_4221]

Banning training room is definitely a smart move. If you're someone new, you probably aren't interested in the game if it's not visually interesting.

[@coolboyyo654]

FETUS OF GOD BEST STAGE

[@Larry]

The i am 8 bit release of the SNES version of SFII had the star removed from Guile's stage as they thought it was copyrighted (that and it might offend people) :S

[@Atrahasis7]

I am not a big fighting game player but all these banned stages are my favourite ones. Sweaty competitiveness, and levelling stuff to much takes the fun away from games, I loved Virtua Fighter 3 stages for being different, like they were real locations so whoever gets an advantage TOO BAD. They were cool and different.

[@monk3110]

Smash bros is the worst example. Ultimate had more feasible stages and yet less we’re allowed in tournament than like ever.. Even yoshi’s island got banned just for having a slope!!!! Ridiculous. I remember ppl wanting to ban Kalos because it had walls to wall jump off of on the stage edge…

[@FamilyTeamGaming]

Are you sure you mean Virtua Fighter 4? That one had almost exclusively ring or at least ring-shaped stages. Virtua Fighter THREE had the "stages based on actual locations" gimmick, and while I do love that game, having certain uneven spots where your combos can be artificially lengthened to 80-90% of abruptly cut short on the second hit reason enough as to why the series never went back to those stages. Anyway, just let people have fun with their games the way they want to.

[@Atrahasis7]

I meant VF3 yeah@@FamilyTeamGaming

[@thegr1mr3ap3r8]

Man, these past couple videos have been awesome, 2 hours of broken characters, now banned stages, loving the content❤

[@DivineBanana]

Imagine being demonetized for saying a medical term. KZbin policy is a joke. Great video nonetheless

[@Sonicstillpoint83]

This was just awesome! I’ve played fighting games since I was a child barely able to tell which side of the screen my character was on and it’s always been a blast because I’ve enjoyed the challenge and the social aspects around fighting games. Hearing that people who can see complaining about incredibly minor, visual, inconveniences is hilarious. Tekken 8 has a visual thing where the game does a combination of putting the camera in a wall or under a floor a few rooms away from the fight and covering half the screen with the classic black and white static, so I can’t imagine how much some people will scream when they encounter it.

[@SpicyChedderJack]

It makes sense to me that training stage is banned in pro tournament, considering that it is for *training* and if you are being tested in a tournament, it should be the culmination of said training, and the stage should reflect that.