Final Fantasy VIII：Rinoa=Ultimecia hypothesis

[@lelellen]

Dialogue of the Squall-Ultimecia Confrontation in Ultimecia's Castle Dissidia which leads to the Squall-Rinoa relationship. Squall : i only came to turn my promise (I only came to fulfill my promise) Ultimecia : Shall we dance? (Are we going to dance?) Well, it's as if Squall wants to keep his promise even though he has never made an agreement with anyone other than Rinoa, especially at Ultimecia who just met at the end of the game. There also gives the impression that Ultimecia remembers that they have danced together, even though it is clear that the only one who has ever danced with Squall is only Rinoa. Dissidia is not part of the story of FFVIII, but Square certainly does not just write the Squall-Ultimecia dialogue like other FF characters when it comes to confrontation with the main enemy in the series.

[@JapaneseGames007]

Thanks for your comment. It looks exactly like the scene where Squall and Rinoa meet. SQUARE is really good at incorporating elements from past works into new stories.

[@lelellen]

@@JapaneseGames007 Griever = Squall? We can name the Squall necklace as a character. As we know, Griever is the (default) name of Squall's lion's head necklace and only Squall and Rinoa know that name. It is very strange that Ultimecia, who just appeared in the Lunar Base, could just know that name, even though Griever's naming was during the Garden war that occurred before the Lunar Base. Given the shape, Ultimecia's necklace head and GF are almost the same, that means Ultimecia has been connected to the necklace and has known about Griever's history and I call the necklace and GF is ONE. Why do I say necklace and GF Ultimecia is one? Of course because the name GF Ultimecia depends on the name of the Squall necklace. I once changed the name of the necklace to another name (eg CLOUD) and it turned out that the name of GF Ultimecia changed after the name of the necklace earlier (CLOUD). But if Griever is GF, why is the status (when the name set) is CHARACTER? The answer is because in fact he is not a GF but is treated as a GF. It could be that he is a person who has been connected to Griever in the past. The only person related to Griever is Squall Lionheart. Well, this is connected again with the name Lionheart. Why do you have to use LION (lion) which incidentally is the form of Griever? Does that mean Squall is a lion that means GF Griever? The battle theme is also related. One of the themes for Griever is Maybe I'm a Lion. There should be no word MAYBE that raises doubts if Griever is really pure a lion. That means there is another character called "I'M" who is "MAYBE A LION / maybe a lion" that is meant by that song. A litmotive in such a game is usually centered on the main character, it means "I'M" leads to SQUALL. Also pay attention to the dialogue of Squall's promise to Rinoa in the meadow of Edea's House where Squall said "even if you end up at the world's enemy,i'll be your knight" Squall promised to be his protector even in the enemy world. Before his death, it was possible that Squall changed himself to be GF to stay with Rinoa and that means Rinoa Had to lose his memory more. After becoming Ultimecia because of Adel's influence during the disc 4 event, Rinoa who felt that he had felt happiness but did not remember what and when it happened. This is Ultimecia's main goal, which is to know the past by compressing time to see the events she was looking for. Remember the location of Ultimecia's Castle, where Ultimecia and Griever live? Yup, near Edea's House, the place where Squall promised to be a "knight" for Rinoa. And as if that means Squall's promise is proven if Griever - Ultimecia is right Squall - Rinoa.

[@JapaneseGames007]

Your hypothesis is interesting. I think it's difficult to gather evidence for that hypothesis, but it makes sense as a story. Above all, the fact that Squall and Rinoa continue to live as "Witches & Knights" even though they lose consciousness gives us a heartrending yet romantic feeling.

[@Shiyoken]

@@lelellen Interesting perspective on that theory! I definitively agree to the points you've made.

[@Vinvulpis]

Didn't they also give Rinoa the "Apocalypse" spell in that game? That's the spell you can draw from the body dangling under Ultimicia in the final form of the final battle. It's another "hint hint" me thinks.

[@TobiasRoad]

24 years since I played this game as a kid, I just now understood the depth of this story, a beautiful story, I couldnt have appreciated this game without you, literally. FF8 is truly a masterpiece. ありがとう,本当に

[@JapaneseGames007]

Thanks for comment. I'm currently making a new video about FF8. Please look forward to it.

[@kucingonline2359]

something you all most know TIME will END. so rinoa and squall cant be trapped in time forever. they will free when time end

[@dododimitrov9657]

I wish games were developed with such complex story and hidden plots. The Sorcerer powers inheritance is like "what is first ,the egg or the chicken". Rinoa's fear was to remain alone, she was stuck in time loop and the only one who was able to free her was her love Squall. This video explained so well every missing detail. TY so much.

[@JapaneseGames007]

These complex stories could be said to be the product of chance. I think this is the most complex and beautiful story in the FF series.

[@jasonbray1622]

Fantastic video. After all these years I’m now realising how this game is even better than I thought. It’s definitely my favourite Final Fantasy.

[@JapaneseGames007]

Thanks❤️ I'm glad that you've come to like FF8 even more.

[@BrandonFoy]

I’m crying again, thank you for this deep dive. Love VIII and always felt this theory had weight to it.

[@JapaneseGames007]

You like FF8, thank you.

[@GlacierRain]

I am quite happy that YT has recommended this video to me. Thank you for explaining the theory, I must say I do agree with your points.

[@JapaneseGames007]

Thank you for viewing! I will send out videos that will make the game even a little more interesting 👍

[@hevanibelheim]

Thank you for letting me understand the true meaning of this masterpiece, I found it deeply moving!

[@raervene]

I love your attention to detail here. You made me a believer of the R=U theory. I definitely think it enhances the story. I love the mysteries and imagery that this game has.

[@JapaneseGames007]

Thanks for your comment. I think FFVIII's difficult story follows the flow of "FFVII & Xenogears," but unfortunately it was not well-received in Japan because of its difficult story (Haha). Therefore, we returned to a simple story in "FFIX & FFX".

[@scaccu]

True, it makes the story a LOT better.

[@Jenovaoffspring]

That was incredible. I don't comment often on videos, I had to on this one. Thank you for your analysis!

[@syawalhakim9774]

you basically completed the whole rinoa ultimecia theory to go reasonably well with origin and fate of hyne.. makes sense enough..

[@JapaneseGames007]

Thanks!

[@JackSparrow-ct4mh]

ff8 is underrated masterpiece

[@JapaneseGames007]

👍👍👍

[@mf_________]

I love FF8 and FFtactics the most out of all of them. And I think the sheer thought provoking nature of creating your own ending for both of these games is why I love them so much.

[@JapaneseGames007]

Thank you for comment. I think people who like "FFVIII & FF Tactics" are FF connoisseurs❤️

[@PierreLucSex]

@@JapaneseGames007 Indeed, amazing video.

[@JapaneseGames007]

Thanks!

[@archipelago9065]

Yeah same those are my two favorite games in the series

[@ImperialEarthEmpire]

the developer said Chrono Cross is not sequel to Trigger which clearly is, so i dont trust the developer about this theory too...

[@Aureels]

It's my favorite FF from his release, and every time I have new reasons for it. Dude, I'm almost crying.

[@JapaneseGames007]

FF8 has a very deep, complex and interesting story❤️

[@KvL92]

Goosebumps, really makes me appreciate FF8 even more

[@JapaneseGames007]

Thanks. I'm currently making a video about FF8, so please check it out when it's finished.

[@KvL92]

@@JapaneseGames007 Looking forward to it!

[@theme6530]

Amazing stuff, this and Hyne video are must see for FF8 fans. Keep that remake dream alive, people!

[@DiegoAlencar8]

This theory makes sense, and it's beautiful that their love transcends time and space, even Rinoa's fate being something sad...

[@JapaneseGames007]

I'm currently working on a new video on this hypothesis, so stay tuned.

[@ShikiTikki]

All these years and this is closest thing to a complete story I have ever heard. Truley….from bottom of my heart, well done. This game runs deeper than it seems,s, deeper than any final fantasy game. I just wish square would acknowledge its existence and do a remake not skip over it for ff9 which no where near as complex

[@JapaneseGames007]

I really want a remake of this game.

[@anglo-saxonconnor817]

The chain of tragedy all started when squall amnesia happen to strike when he was trying to return home. He cant remember who he is supposed to meet and where the meeting location is. Squall was travelling everywhere and nowhere at the same time because his memory keep failing him. Rinoa was waiting at the flower field in vain anxiously awaiting for Squall to show up. Ultimecia was using her last breathe to crawl to the flower field before her body break apart because she need to fulfill that forgotten promise she made with Squall.

[@toastymansabe]

What a beautiful game it is

[@JapaneseGames007]

Yes, it's a very great game.

[@mancvso]

I got CHILLS! Maye a tear or two...

[@JapaneseGames007]

Thank you, I'm glad you said that.

[@t3st1fy91]

Awesome job. Thanks for making this and getting me to think about it again

[@blackzero786]

What happens if in one of the "Loops", the "weakened" Ultimicia came into contact with a young Squall and passed the "power" onto him. Edea did comment that she didn't want one of the children to inherit the power, notice she didn't say girls but children, including the boys.

[@JapaneseGames007]

That process is interesting. I think it would be a good way if Ultimecia wanted to break out of this loop, but if Ultimecia = Rinoa, as is the hypothesis in this video, then Rinoa's will may have protected him.

[@Fraxinus1986]

This is impossible. The sorcery power can be bestowed on women only. And Edea at that point cared for one thing only: to never let any sorceress to bestow powers on Ellone who too is a sorceress. I'm sure Edea noticed her powers shortly after Ellone was sent to her orphanage with Squall after Raine's death. She also sais at one point she knew Ellone "very well", meaning she had been studying her powers for about 10 years on that ship. In my opinion, Ellone's powers do not come from Hyne. She is an unique sorceress, the only one of her kind in the entire FF8 world's history. That may be the reason why Ellone was so "wanted" by various parties her entire life. But she turned out to be very shy to use her powers. If only she was not that shy and could be more straightforward like Riona was, she too could save the world, potentially prevent this time loop to ever happen.

[@Blahblahblah28504]

This is a very strange game, with a very...interesting theory to go along with it.

[@rowanmorris2187]

Great video. Thank you.

[@stephenb3026]

That was brilliant.

[@PolarTraum]

Impresive Video. Really intresting

[@JapaneseGames007]

Thanks!

[@HaqiKusanagi]

I always believe in this theory even before it's on the internet. I always have thought of this theory since the first time I played it. And you made it sooooo match every plot and every scene and every dialog. Especially that ring part really hit me HARD. Never notice that Rinoa in the opening is wearing ONE ring. One question though: what do you mean by "Rinoa returned to her original form from Ultimecia."? How can she did that?

[@JapaneseGames007]

1. Ultimecia (Rinoa/Hyne) is defeated in battle by Squall and his allies. 2. The witch's powers are passed on to Edea. 3. Freed from Hyne's curse, she is able to return from Ultimecia to Rinoa. 4. But, she dies soon after returning to Rinoa. With that in mind, if you're interested, check out this video♪ kzbin.info/www/bejne/j56cc3mcnqt5jJI

[@erwinadrados4747]

this is the best R=U video i've even watched :)

[@JapaneseGames007]

Thank you! I'm happy♪

[@erwinadrados4747]

@@JapaneseGames007 please create more ff8 contents. ff8 is my most favorite ^_^

[@JapaneseGames007]

I've been a bit busy lately and there are a lot of other videos I want to make, but I'll do my best!

[@erwinadrados4747]

@@JapaneseGames007 thank you so much ^_^

[@Soooooooooooonicable]

Thank you for sharing!!! This is amazing!! 🥰🥰🤩🤩

[@JapaneseGames007]

Thanks for comment❤️

[@Joe_334]

Well, General Caraway was a high ranking Galbadian too. Which may explain why she knew to use their army as while possessing Matron, Since Caraway is Rinoa's father. Edit: those black feathers seem to hint at Ultimecia too, since she had two black wings.

[@JapaneseGames007]

On a slightly different topic, the reason why Ultimecia's magic power is inherited by humans (mainly women) in each era may have been inspired by Miang Hawwa who appears in "Xenogears".

[@faikhozen5963]

thank you again this one really hits the spot for info and made me love FFVIII so much more it may be just an idea but for an idea that i can go behind P.S. felt good to cry regards on the ending, you spoke good words on your opinion of the ending "love transcends time and space" is truly understated

[@JapaneseGames007]

I think I'll be able to upload a new video, which is like a sequel to this one, sometime tomorrow, so please look forward to it.

[@JapaneseGames007]

I'm just about to do a final check and will upload it if there are no problems.

[@gqstatuz]

1. Awesome video over two decades later mind-blown 🤯. 2. Comment section making valid points. Not sure if anyone has said it: Towards the end when you were concluding, my brain thought what if the loop is a happy memory for Evil Rinoa? (I’m also feeling somewhat sympathetic to E.R)

[@JapaneseGames007]

Thank you for comment. If this hypothesis is correct, I hope Squall and Rinoa are happy.

[@Shiyoken]

I tend to revise on KZbin any new FF8 lore; especially this theory from time to time... And damn, you've smashed the ball out of the park with this one. Interesting and unique analysis. I never seen or thought about before. Added a lot to comtemplate. Are you native JP/Eng or other btw? You know the creators of FF8 may have intentionally made it this way or not is always up to debate. But there's a phenomenon in reality called: "synchromysticism". While it has many definitions and perspectives; I believe it is the underlining WILL of the Universe; "Truth" playing a role (as it is inherent in all things), to awaken our Consciousness (observers/participators = us), through various mediums especially artistic. And is the Truer message of what THAT Art form may have meant from the Artist. Its there to show us that we need to do, remember who we are, decode falsehoods, awaken and re-align our understanding to the underlying principles, the Laws of the Universe and our intimate conversation between us and the Creator. I think this theory and more just enhances the entire FF8 experience. Its basically saying: "Love Transcends All" or as a fellow researcher says: "Infinite Love is the Only Truth. Everything Else is Illusion"... Earnt a Sub! Will check your other stuff out. Thanks!

[@JapaneseGames007]

Thanks for comment. Kitase, who was the director of FFVIII, initially denied this theory. But, he later recanted his denial, and screenwriter Nojima commented, "It's amazing how the fans' thoughts end up creating something more interesting than the story I wrote". In the subsequent SQUARE (SQUARE ENIX), you can't miss the fact that "FFDC" includes a story inspired by fan theories. Based on what SQUARE ENIX has done, I think FFVIII is the right choice no matter how you enjoy it.

[@DisFantasy]

It was an overly ambitious project that had it's budget slashed half way through. The developers stitched together what they had best they could. That's probably why the source code is missing. They don't want people to know what was cut from the original production.

[@JapaneseGames007]

I've never thought of it that way, but it seems that many people overseas have that view.

[@DisFantasy]

@@JapaneseGames007 I hadn't really thought about it, but a few years ago, I saw the world map with new eyes. The excavation point for Pandora was the Southern continent right? And when Laguna and his friends have their misadventure, they somehow end up in Raine's town. They would have had to travel across a sea with mortal injuries. But what is relatively nearby to the excavation site? Edea's orphanage. So it'd make more sense for them to find their way there and be rescued by her. Not only is she on the same continent, she's on the coastline. Unlike Raine's town. Supposing that was the original plan, then who was Edea meant to be originally?

[@JapaneseGames007]

Wow, very interesting.

[@SenorDonMiguel]

I think I need a visual diagram/timeline of Rinoa's life cycle 😅

[@JapaneseGames007]

Thanks, I'll refer to it.

[@SenorDonMiguel]

@@JapaneseGames007 thanks!

[@kzelmer]

This is the good ending, indeed. Rinoa's love for Squall transcends space and time and ends up saving him.

[@JapaneseGames007]

I'm currently working on a new video that's a continuation of this one. It will be completed soon, so please look forward to it.

[@alexeychubarov5875]

Once again... Why does future Rinoa have two rings, and Ulti-Rinoa has one? We see in all the scenes in space that she has two of them. Even in the visions when her suit breaks. Please, I really want to understand, but I’m losing the thread of thought at this moment.

[@JapaneseGames007]

Please take this as a hypothesis only. １、Rinoa before meeting Squall → Does not have a Ring. ２、Borrow a ring from Squall → 1 Ring. ３、Have Zell make the same thing → 2 Rings. ※ She will have 2 rings from this point until the ending. ４、After the ending, return the ring to Squall → 1 Ring. ※ This is the hypothesis that the future Rinoa (later Ultimecia) after the ending only has 1 Ring, but in any case, this is the reason why the Rinoa that appeared at the ending was thought to be from a different timeline.

[@greatness91]

I think the loop is broken with the timeline of our game and Hyne is dead, and it’s truly over. This is because I think this is the only timeline where Rinoa had both rings, and thus remembered Squall all the other loops I think Squall is just stuck and then time is reset at that point hoping for a better future. Or maybe it’s just me hoping for a happy ending rather than a repeating tragedy

[@mancvso]

@@greatness91 oh my friend, FF is ALWAYS endless tragedy.

[@squick1842]

She is still Seifers sloppy seconds. Can be seen in Squalls flashback.

[@prosieniec]

Regarding the confirmation of the Hyne theory, is it correct to say that in lore what remains of him in the human world is simply his skin? When considering the final form of Ultimecia (or Hyne), the design strongly suggests that the Ultimecia/Rinoa entity at the bottom is junctioned to that skin as the face is empty, so the body. Really interesting and opening eyes video ❤

[@JapaneseGames007]

Thanks for comment. I don't think there was any mention of skin. The legend simply says that the upper half of the body disappeared and the lower half came into human hands.

[@prosieniec]

@JapaneseGames007 that's quite intriguing. It appears there may have been a mistranslation from Japanese to English. In the English translation, for some strange reason, they translated "Hyne half" to "skin". There is theory about Hyne half being Hein from FF3, and Japanese source makes it a little bit invalid, as Hein is depicted as a skeleton and therefore does not "lack the skin". But their spelling in English, Hyne and Hein, is still the same.

[@prosieniec]

@@JapaneseGames007 I wonder how many mistranslation the game might have as it spans theories that contradict the creators vision.

[@Rafael-rn6hn]

@@prosieniec The text only talks about Hyne splitting his body in half and later about leaving an "empty shell" (抜け殻), which is likely what is translated about skin.

[@EndSus]

Sheesh im the 666th Subscriber 💀💀💀

[@JapaneseGames007]

Thanks! 😱😱😱