Finally EVERY DAW can do this!

[@Chalisque]

Something to be aware of when doing this is the DAW's sample buffers and their size. For a track with output and input connectors, the receiver will _already_ have its processing done before the sender. So if we send e.g. a snare through the track, the shortest possible delay in the feedback loop is one sample buffer in length, whatever size that is. So e.g. a 64 sample buffer is a little over 1/1000s. This affects what sort of sounds you can get using this technique.

[@audiotoolshed]

Thanks for letting us know!

[@Garf-s]

Well done, your video is so loud it just blew my ears off in the middle of the night and woke up the kids. Well done for having the loudest sound in KZbin, you Sir are a real pro...

[@audiotoolshed]

Lol thanks. I can’t get the video Koudekerke than -14lufs since yt normalises it all. The rest must be quieter then ;-)

[@lenoir7357]

Stimming incorporates this effect very well on his song "Die Taube auf dem Dach". I always wondered how did that. I thought it was feedback on the delay but I didn't think it would be this advanced. Thanks for the wonderful video

[@audiotoolshed]

Which part are you specifically pointing to?

[@lenoir7357]

Everything about this technique. I just couldn’t wrap my head around on how he achieved such results. You should check the song out too. You’ll be amazed by how he uses the technique you just showed.

[@dzaxys4643]

When I was a kid in the 90s I made a feedback loop with a Sony hi fi system it had a setting where you can plug in head phones and still hear so I tried plugging a wire out of head phones and I can't remember if it was a line or phono but looped it to the input and something about the volume changed the pitch of the sound making a rudimentary synth sounding instrument

[@audiotoolshed]

Ha! That’s so cool. Wonder what changed the pitch. Usually it’s the change in delay

[@dzaxys4643]

@@audiotoolshed yeah I had no idea what I was doing at the time and tried it on a different machine but it didn't work in the same I remember it being an early Sony cd cassette mini stack with all sorts of mega base eq type control I imagine that it was somehow digitally layering the feedback changing the frequency but just a guess nowadays I have a synth that's built by the pros

[@audiotoolshed]

Who knows! Which synth do you use these days?

[@dzaxys4643]

@@audiotoolshed most recently I got Moog dfam I I have just started rebuilding my set up after having a forced break for a few years great to be making music again 😁

[@audiotoolshed]

Good choice!!!

[@juschu85]

In Ableton you don't even need a plug-in.You can misuse the sidechain feature in the compressor or gate. As sender you don't need a device. At least as long as you want to grab the signal from the output of a track. If you want to grab it from a point in between devices, place an empty rack at that point and give it a name you remember. As reciever, insert a stock compressor or gate, turn on sidechain, select your source and click the headphone button.

[@audiotoolshed]

And how would you do that in other daws?

[@juschu85]

@@audiotoolshed Uhmmm? With the plug-in you showed in this video? Don't get me wrong. I didn't write this comment to show that your video has no point because you don't even need this plug-in. But it's nice to know that at least in Ableton you actually don't need it. I think it's a good idea to keep the size of your plug-in folder as small as possible and as big as necessary.

[@audiotoolshed]

True. But your type of comment showed up on this video for every daw which is an exception, and that many times ;-) Get's bit tiring. If you can do it in you daw without a plugin is excellent of course.

[@juschu85]

@@audiotoolshed True. But Ableton is one of those every DAW and it's a pretty widespread one. So a lot of Ableton users will probably see this video.

[@NovianLeVanMusic]

This is really cool for sound design.

[@audiotoolshed]

Surely opens up new possibilities :-)

[@bluecataudio]

Excellent tutorial, showing a great deal of creative examples!

[@audiotoolshed]

Thanks! Wouldn't be possible without your plugin ofcourse :-)

[@NovianLeVanMusic]

Oh hey, it's Blue Cat, love you guys!

[@bluecataudio]

@@NovianLeVanMusic Thanks!

[@danielkisel5661]

Amazing!! Great plugin review selection Marlon! Feedback loop is something not possible natively in DAW I use but something I wanted to use and play with for a long time so this is plugin is a must for me!

[@audiotoolshed]

Hey Daniel! I’m not 100% sure it cannot be done in every daw, but I know that at least in cubase and cakewalk this isn’t possible without using a plugin like this.

[@yy6u]

@@audiotoolshed you could totally do this with stuff like loopback or virtual audio cable or any virtual sound card product, which are loopbacks themselves. without even any daw at reach

[@ghostplayermusic]

It’s possible in Ableton, and I imagine many daws with a resampling option

[@cornoc]

@@ghostplayermusic What do you mean? How would you do this in Ableton

[@cornoc]

@@yy6u Probably would add more latency. Also more cumbersome to setup.

[@BojanBojovic]

Funny headline, Reaper does this with its routing for the last 15 years. :)

[@audiotoolshed]

Yes it does! But now all daws can do it. For instance cubase and cakewalk dont have this option for whatever stupid reason. Actually due to your comment i will update the title.

[@BojanBojovic]

@@audiotoolshed Thanks for the video. :)

[@audiotoolshed]

For sure!

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

@@audiotoolshed The whatever stupid reason is most people have no use for a feedback loop and would scratch their heads wondering why their audio is feeding back when they've "done nothing wrong."

[@averagebedroomproducer5008]

Interesting, the algorhythms are working, I just went for FL minihost modular instead of Bluecat's Patchwork. Doing these feedback and chaining fx are my life now.

[@averagebedroomproducer5008]

also if you are noob at feedback, advise adding a limiter on the channel or maybe wreck your monitors, ears and potentially your life 🤣 obviously not you but for anyone trying

[@averagebedroomproducer5008]

On that note, DAWS need panic buttons lol

[@audiotoolshed]

100% agree. Panic button really can be life savers. Or a big mute button on any interface ;-) Big difference between patchwork and this one is that Connector can take the whole patching outside the DAW and even computer. Both plugins are obviously related.

[@auehate]

Thanks for pointing out Minihost Modular, wasn't aware of it yet. Can you actually send audio from one instance of the plugin to another, or did you mean your are creating feedback loops within one instance?

[@dragon-id5uj]

yay cakewalk! it's my baby, my sweet sweet daw... everyone tells me to switch but i love it!

[@audiotoolshed]

Haha. Cakewalk is impressive, especially when you think it’s free.

[@transparentzwindows]

Marlon, thank you for that wonderful exploration!

[@audiotoolshed]

Hi Eric! Well you're the direct inspiration for this! So i need to thank you :-)

[@Vegan_Kebab_In_My_Hand]

Feedback loops; dangerous but exciting! Thanks for bringing awareness to this product of Blue Cat's, a fine company might I add!

[@audiotoolshed]

feedback loops are a bit of a rabbithole, so much fun :-) and yes for blue cat audio!

[@Chalisque]

I'm not sure anything can do this, but what would be a nice thing would be a delay plugin that allows you to insert VSTs into the feedback loop with a smaller buffer size than the host DAW. (As I commented elsewhere, the delay in the feedback loop is a multiple of the buffer size, with the minimum being one buffer as the receiver will already have done its processing _before_ the sender gets to send anything).

[@audiotoolshed]

Why , if i may ask? In cubase you can offset each track to play earlier than you want. This wouldnt offset for the entire buffer roundloop, but it's a start. And how small of a buffer would you need?

[@JanMichalSzulew]

I needed this badly about 3 months ago when trying to recreate a complex delay effect (which included stuttering and beat reversing). I found a very obscure plugin called Senderella, however it wouldn't play nice with JBridge (and Cakewalk's default 32-to-64 bridge doesn't play nice with my Scarett 6i6 v2 interface). I eventually gave up :)

[@NikiWinProd]

sounds cool

[@audiotoolshed]

I wouldnt install such an old plugin anytime soon myself. This one works for sure, have you actually tried a analog feedback loop? Outputs of the soundcard patched into the input of the soundcard. Will give a similar result.

[@JanMichalSzulew]

@@audiotoolshed what's wrong with a plugin being old? As long as it gets the job done... No, I didn't try an analog loop, I stay away from analog as much as possible, so that didn't even cross my mind :)

[@audiotoolshed]

In itself there's nothing wrong with an old plugin. But if something hasnt been updated for 12 years or so, whil ethe systems I work on have, I wont install it to avoid any potential issues. Dont like to have a project become unusuable or completelt crash in the middle of a session, i.e. not taking that risk. Besides I like to stay up to date. I wont use such an analog loop myself, give an plugin. But it can be done ;-)

[@erikhall9776]

Thanks! Very cool!

[@audiotoolshed]

It is!

[@joost3783]

Cool stuff. But I was doing this in logic years ago. You can create feedback loops in any daw just with returns. The BC plugin looks promising but this isn't it's real selling point IMHO. edit: also in soundtoys effectrack you can do this edit: for anyone thats interested. Just send to an echo, then send that echo to a new return and set the output of that return to the input of your echo track. Then you can insert anything to impact the repeats and even control the amount of feedback via the fader of the second return. edit: not any daw apparently some don't allow you to create feedback loops

[@audiotoolshed]

No, not every daw can do it. That's why this video exists in the first place. Cubase for instance doenst allow routing back into the same audio channel, and cakewalk neither.

[@joost3783]

@@audiotoolshed Interesting. Didn't know that! Yeah in that case it makes sense. I wasn't questioning ur video though I was just eager to offer up an alternative that you don't need to purchase the plugin for. But I'm still considering to buy it because of other possibilities

[@audiotoolshed]

A cable out of the back of your soundboard into an input will also create a nice feedback loop ;-)

[@JanMichalSzulew]

"You can create feedback loops in any daw just with returns" Nope. In Cakewalk for instance if you route A to B and then try to route B somewhere A won't even be on the list of possible destinations. It detects feedback loops by design and doesn't allow you to do it. Perhaps to avoid unpleasant incidents which could potentially result in ear damage. Although that could've been remedied with displaying a warning message before attempting to create such loop and ask for extra confirmation.

[@joost3783]

@@JanMichalSzulew yeah dude I edited my comment already. I assumed every modern DAW would allow you to use that. I mean if your DAW is that limited I would consider switching though no offense. To avoid ear damage in those cases I use NUGEN Sigmod in protect mode, cant go above 0 this way

[@audiotoolshed]

Connect everything with anything! - Blue Cat's Connector kzbin.info/www/bejne/il7bYomlprSkl8k

[@bixenter]

That's awesome! I never understood why Fl Studio and some other daws don't have a feeback loop

[@audiotoolshed]

Same here!

[@AizenIPlannedIt]

In FL studio, you can simply create feedback loop with patcher & fruity delay 3, no need for external plugins

[@Nothingspeshalwaysfresh]

Nice one. Thanks for the knowledge

[@audiotoolshed]

And thank you for the kind words!

[@paulgenevzki2477]

wow, so now i can create "no-input" music in DAW, thx!!!

[@audiotoolshed]

no-input music is new to me, explain please :-)

[@paulgenevzki2477]

With analog mixer, you wired output back into input channel, then you got (very loud) feedback noise. It's an experimental concept. Some times you can get weird sounds like an oscillator with random LFO on steroids.

[@joepvans5035]

Ableton Live has the ability to send a Return channel back into itself, creating a feedback loop.

[@transparentzwindows]

Puig said that Ableton was the best sounding DAW which caught my ears...

[@audiotoolshed]

Yeah but not all other daws do.

[@audiotoolshed]

More flexibility right

[@Danko76]

@@audiotoolshed Reaper too

[@anonymousbrowser4448]

How do you do that?

[@enlightenedsoul8897]

It is great but I can't see when I would use it.

[@audiotoolshed]

Well the examples I showed in the video to start with. Unique sounding delays which morph more which each delay step is a nother one.

[@ConwayBob]

Brilliant! Thank you!!!

[@audiotoolshed]

You're very welcome!

[@DaveMenkehorst]

What's the difference with sending the return to the same aux send?

[@audiotoolshed]

Hey Dave. It's the same if your DAW allows it, so the sending output of any track back into the input of that same track. Not all DAWs can do this, hence this video.

[@ahmedyadam7240]

Simply, definitely I liked it Many thanks

[@audiotoolshed]

Most welcome 😊

[@pyrra]

Nice tutorial, I just want to test this with a sample of Godzilla scream. Should be fun af

[@audiotoolshed]

Go for it! And i absolutely want to hear that result!

[@marc.w.7692]

i must learn to know qualitys!!!! thank you!!!

[@marc.w.7692]

and whts the point

[@audiotoolshed]

Glad it was helpful!

[@RJ1J]

Any other plugins that do exactly what Blue Cat connector does? Apart from Ableton return track?

[@audiotoolshed]

all functions combined? not something I can think of. pure loopback: connecting an audio out of your sound card to sound card in with a cable will create a feedback loop as well.

[@JanMichalSzulew]

Senderella, a pretty obscure plugin. Hard to find.

[@caspermaster-com]

This was really awesome, and I've been an audio geek for 10 years

[@audiotoolshed]

It opens up a lot of sweet possibilities, doesnt it :-)

[@evo2542]

So the new things is that you can now do this "Daw-wide" instead of having to just use a plugin's feedback knob which would just feedback audio into that same plugin.

[@audiotoolshed]

exactly + the fact that you can insert any other effect inside that feedback loop which basically not an option within most plugins .

[@peekpen]

This process is suspiciously parallel to feeding whole mixes back into a mixdown as if it were being miked in your outer environment. I'm guilty of not putting my finger on it at this moment but Matthew Weiss mixing (also a guest on Pensados/Hals place) did it in an older video.

[@audiotoolshed]

I dont fully understand what you mean. Sound like parallel processing. Or to add some ambience?

[@thescarecrow1315]

Am I the only one here who has no clue why you would ever want to do this? Sounds like a spaceship

[@audiotoolshed]

spaceship!sweet.

[@petterrong1590]

Wait, there are DAWs that can't use the same bus for both input and send?

[@audiotoolshed]

Unfortunately, yes. I dont get it either why it isnt implemented in all daws, but that's the reason this plugin is so useful, besides ofcourse all other functions this plugin can do.

[@jetlag1488]

@@audiotoolshed It's a safety thing, so no one does it on accident.

[@lassorb4752]

Yeah cubase

[@justhazza3068]

cubase

[@JanMichalSzulew]

@@jetlag1488 I thought so too, but would it really be that hard to code an additional warning to ask for user's "are you sure you want to create a feedback loop? this may cause unpredictable results and may cause speaker/ear damage"?

[@sevenfifteen]

I still don't understand the advantage. Let's take the free Quilcom Grecho, for example. The results I get are very similar, but without the bluecat thing. So, what do I miss?

[@audiotoolshed]

Completely different plugins. This is not a delay, but feedback loop. It opens up to many, many custom audio chains which feed back into itself and change with every delay.

[@sevenfifteen]

@@audiotoolshed I was serious, when I said, that I don't understand. I'm not a troll. It rather seems I'm missing the important info. I understand, that you took the output of an audio track and fed it back into it's input, with settings that make it fade out over time. Now everything you add between the bluecat plugs affects the feedback line and therefore the whole audio (since it feeds itself back in). But at this point I'm lost, because a delay with effects in its feedback line does the same, it takes the original audio and feeds it back to itself while applying the effects on the feedback line. Or better said, this is what is stuck in my mind. Would there be an example of something you can do with the audio feedback loop, that you can't do with an effect that has a feedback line?

[@audiotoolshed]

No worries, i didnt see it as a trolling comment, otherwise I would have deleted already ^^ The thing with delay plugins is that it does al the feedback looping inside that plugin. So you're stuck with whatever that plugin offers to adjust the delays in the feedback loop. Some have filters, others add a bit of distortion. Any other plugin which is insterted before or after that delayplugin wont affect the *feedback loop* of the delay . To put it differently: the feedback loop of a delay plugin wil only feed the output of that delay plugin into the input of that same plugin. It's a feedback loop for that dleay plugin only. There arent many delay plugin who give you the option to insert other plugins inside their own feedback loop( i.e i dont know any) So you need to build your own feedback loop, at least when you want to take advantage of adding mulitple , different effects in the feedback loop. Hope this clears it up a bit.

[@sevenfifteen]

@@audiotoolshed It does, thank you! Yes, that was the missing part for my blindness: That it opens up the feedback line to any effect I like to try, instead of just what I have within the plugin!

[@audiotoolshed]

Yes! Of course if you want a simple dleay plugin self oscillating feedback thingy, there's in most cases no need to use a setup like in the video. Many delay plugins self oscillate by themselves perfectly.

[@andy-gee-2k]

Lucky for all the Reaper DAW users out there, this is supported natively, just modify your advanced project setting and feed channels back :-)

[@audiotoolshed]

Yeah, Reaper is one of those daws which has this functionality build in. Lucky bastards ;-)

[@caspermaster-com]

Yeah, reaper can do anything, but this plugin will make me actually do it creatively, easier to just have one send/return than tracks looping into each other :)

[@3xAudio]

very useful tips

[@audiotoolshed]

Hope they help!

[@JunkBondTrader]

Reaper's all like: what took y'all so long? 😎

[@audiotoolshed]

Rest of the audioworld: who’s reaper?

[@emanuel_soundtrack]

there is something mystic about feedback. My next piece is based on reverb and feedback alone, as main elements

[@audiotoolshed]

That sounds really intrueging. I have mastered a lot of drone and ambient style of music.

[@emanuel_soundtrack]

every piece of my electroacoustic poems is about some technique, my first comment was then in this sense.

[@cj.tranzistor]

It is just feedback loop as in every delay. Why? Reaper DAW enables it out of case after 1 tick in setitngs. 🤔🤔

[@audiotoolshed]

No, watch the video to see why.

[@Kris_jellybeard]

I do this natively in Ableton

[@audiotoolshed]

Yes, it can do that already.

[@yy6u]

unfortunately its "buggy", i just managed to just make it choke at 60db, seems like i have to use limiters to prevent it from just going too loud and unusable

[@audiotoolshed]

@@yy6u That's not choking. That's an unmistakable part of feedback loop. Just turn up any self oscillating delay. It will go LOUD. turn down the feedback / input a bit to reduce that.

[@yy6u]

@@audiotoolshed oh thanks, i ended up sorting it out, no offense intended, and i guess reverb helps a lot since it lowers the signal by much

[@TjMoon91]

This comment is like watching a video on laser eye surgery and saying “I can see already”

[@rybotekk]

wow. dreams comes. true

[@audiotoolshed]

You dream of plugins?

[@rybotekk]

@@audiotoolshed 20 years ago. me and my friend laughed so so much to hope this analog feature will come to digital. and now we are here. :D

[@Prodby_duke]

What’s the benefits of doing this?

[@audiotoolshed]

Of doing what?

[@Prodby_duke]

@@audiotoolshed having a feedback loop going on.

[@audiotoolshed]

Sound design, creative effects i would say. The ability to have a very interesting evolvement on every delay is sweet. And I really dig the pitch down reverbs I show in the video.

[@yy6u]

careful of the disclaimer of hearing through.

[@JanMichalSzulew]

@@Prodby_duke watch the video...

[@anthemmakersmusic]

Hehehe smiling, I feel like your reading my mind. Cadence

[@audiotoolshed]

Yes!

[@garethde-witt6433]

I’ve spent my whole career in music trying to eliminate feedback. So I consider this somewhat stupid

[@audiotoolshed]

I think you miss the point a bit on this type of feedback loop and the creative things you can do with it.

[@garethde-witt6433]

@@audiotoolshed No I get it, but unless it’s a guitar solo feedback in any shape or form isn’t very useful

[@audiotoolshed]

@@garethde-witt6433 We dont have to agree, I think it has it's uses. Just check for instance the pitch down effect on the reverb i showed. And also in the pensado video i linked, he shows a nice feedback loop effect as well.

[@marcusplaysmusic8628]

@@garethde-witt6433 Did you know there are other instruments besides guitar? It's a wild world of possibilites out there above the sand, you should consider pulling your head up for a look sometime!

[@audiotoolshed]

:-o

[@DIXAK]

Lekker gap

[@audiotoolshed]

Zekah

[@Emmanuel_DH]

You also just could send your audio into a delay bus, then add effects on this bus. Too complicated for what it does

[@audiotoolshed]

No, you're missing th epoint here. That feedack loop will route every delay through all effects over and over and with that change the sound more and more. If you're just up for a oscillation delay than most delay plugins can do that as I point out in the video.

[@JanMichalSzulew]

No, that's not the same

[@orangepurplemusic]

hoi hoe gaat het

[@audiotoolshed]

goed hoor

[@tekis0]

Sub-SCRIBED!

[@audiotoolshed]

Thank-YOU

[@johnwalter6410]

Cakewalk? Really dude? hahahaha

[@audiotoolshed]

Ehm yes?

[@south828]

$49...

[@lassorb4752]

Sounds horrible, thanks alot 🙌🏼😂

[@audiotoolshed]

Good! That is what i'm always after.