FINALS Josh Waitzkin vs. "The Buffalo" - 2004 Tai Chi World Cup - Moving Step Push Hands

[@ThisSentenceIsFalse]

Ancient warfare prizes pushing ability. Formations pushing against each other. Falling to the ground meant certain death, stabbed by spears, trampled by soldiers and horses. Shuai jiao and tai chi evolved from this context. Wrestling, archery, heavy weapons, and horsemanship made up ancient martial arts. Missing this context people say dumb things--see comments section. I think for tai chi to better promote itself it needs to bring back attention to it's battlefield origins.

[@JansTaiChi]

Well said. Pinning this comment.

[@tinnguyen-od5in]

Bs lol

[@subsonic9854]

1. Push hands is not just pushing. Tui shou is just a name. 2. Push hands is a drill, just like the speed ball in boxing. Its not for fighting but for developing sensitivity, just as speedballs develop rhythm and timing. 3. Shuai jiao is wrestling with clothes just like judo and bears zero resemblance to tai chi in technique, concepts, training, application, etc. 4. You are passing off convenient fanciful stories as facts. 5. Etc. Edit: you made the dumbest comment in the whole comment section.

[@liang3102]

@@subsonic9854 Taijiquan contains Shuai Jiao

[@nonsononessunooko4066]

bro no one gives a damn HOW MUCH your push strong in a battfield ju jitsu and MMA or boxing judo karate bujinkan or even true real kempo with kick and punches and grappling are just on another level even if you are the best pusher in the world you would not stand a chache even just againts judo.

[@johnwu0822]

The Art of Learning send me here.

[@DaGretschguy]

John Wu me too in Oct 2019

[@gantulgatuvdendorj]

yee me too 😎

[@timbrolo6931]

Same Apr 2020

[@RParmable]

Me too

[@devgiri]

me too

[@ayoadeadeyemi01]

How many of y'all came here to look for what Push Hand was after reading Art of Learning? I am reading the last chapter, and this is doing justice to understanding the chapter.

[@JansTaiChi]

🙏💪❤️

[@chillie000]

Is it a good book?

[@ayoadeadeyemi01]

@@chillie000 Great book! I loved it

[@risaalshaan]

Me me

[@corbintriano6148]

Just finished “Art of Learning” Being able to watch these matches was a treat. Tears and cheers were had=)

[@JansTaiChi]

So glad to hear that. I'll be sure to tell Josh. Thanks for watching!

[@Pegasus313]

Second this. I just finished the book today.

[@alfredocarrillo5922]

This is way different than I imagined when I read the book

[@DiegoRastalife]

Same here, such an inspiring book. I was so happy to be able to see the final epic battle on YT. Being able to watch the battle from the inside and then from the outside helps understanding how to toughen up in the face of adversity. Truly an inspiration! Thanks for sharing!

[@BiggCuzz803]

He made it sound a lot more amazing and dramatic in the book

[@dalriada]

It looks fairly brutal to me. Things are a lot different when you're not a spectator!

[@Mateo-et3wl]

Agree, i almost felt like learning it based on the book. After seeing it, not really

[@redpilledwarrior4367]

If you compete in a martial art you'd know/feel the small details, and nuances are barely visible at times

[@漢武神]

incredibly difficult for Josh to hold his ground against an opponent that appeared to be stronger. As the match progresses you will see how Josh handles himself and the situation.

[@mateosmind751]

@Don Mega Jujitsu guys and judo guys would toss these guys around.

[@dylanschiavone2144]

@@mateosmind751 Josh went on to become a JJ blackbelt.

[@sandytimewell]

@@mateosmind751 I've done both moving Push Hands and Judo competitions. Its an overlapping skill set. Techniques from push hands can be used to improve your judo and vice versa. Top level Judoka are probably better because judo has a much larger pool of practitioners to draw from and is solely focus on getting good at competition. But there is nothing intrinsic in either martial art that makes it always better than the other. It depends on the practitioner, how they train and what purpose they train for.

[@liamdoes8580]

​@@mateosmind751josh is a black belt under Marcelo

[@Moxertons]

loved reading TOAL's final pages with this playing simultaneously. Super cool.

[@fuzbuzz00]

That is exactly what I did.

[@DanielSAraujo98]

Sad to know he deserved to win and they still managed to get Buffalo the title too.

[@soerensenkarl]

Same!

[@mateosmind751]

@Don Mega The Art of Learning. The guy who got robbed in the finals was the best youth chess player in the world once. He is a master of chess, Tai Chi, and Jujitsu, although he isn't a top level jujitsu competitor I think he did get his black belt. His book is about how to learn anything.

[@JimmySlacksack]

the ref wins he has the best form

[@JansTaiChi]

🤣😂

[@JansTaiChi]

lol

[@carlosj.f.desoto2437]

🤣

[@wally19]

OMG!!! thank you for sharing!!!!!!

[@vivahvv]

Reading the Art of Learning now. Excellent book! After Josh described this match, I had to see for myself.

[@skepticalbutopen4620]

On the last chapter of The Art of Learning and I wanted to see the actual match.

[@JansTaiChi]

:)

[@angshu08]

Same here... thanks for sharing 👍

[@jamesart9]

Push Hands is not as gentle as one might first imagine.

[@seamasmanly]

Truly!

[@itinerantpoet1341]

It can be the most gentle art there is-I live by the Gracie Rules of engagement and pushing is a great way to avoid initiating-typically the attacker doesn't know what happened and sometimes they go away without needing to be submitted. But it can also be the least gentle art there is. We did drunken boxing also. My teacher told me "if you want to kill someone..." (gesture for squeezing the trachea with the index finger/pointer and thumb;) The higher the skill, the gentler one can become 😊🙏 amitabha

[@andydufresne2818]

Not what I envisioned based on Josh' description in the book🤔

[@AaronRowell]

Love being able to see this match. The Art of learning is such an inspiring book for me, I'm on my fourth read through.

[@JansTaiChi]

Thanks for the comment and for watching! Glad you find the book so valuable. Definitely key in my life as well. 🙏☯️💪

[@angeljuliaschoolingyahthew5879]

just finished his book which ends with him describing this fight. does anyone know if Taiwan cleaned up their dirty judging? This was in 2004. The round went beyond 2.00 min for crying out loud.

[@JansTaiChi]

+Julia Schoolingyah the last time we competed the Taiwanese judging was sharp and fair. Relations between Josh's US Push Hands Team and Taiwan's Shi Jong (Shi Zhong) school became very close after this tournament, with the top player "Tuishou" Chen Chi-Cheng (kzbin.info/www/bejne/hqnCfIOeqsiMp6M) leading his team to their first US tournament the following year (kzbin.info/www/bejne/mKC2fYKcasionbc and kzbin.info/www/bejne/kHOlqKmlarVretE), and training with each other (kzbin.info/www/bejne/gorFdamGic-Fi5o), and competing against each other in subsequent years (kzbin.info/www/bejne/d3PJiHacmt1qqdU). "Tuishou" Chen is planning his first US teaching tour this summer (www.taijipushhands.org). Hope this answers your question. :)

[@matthewrigby6089]

@@JansTaiChi Awesome! Good to hear. Good thing Josh learned to channel his anger towards focusing and competing harder. I would have been so rattled if that sort of blatant cheating happened to me.

[@bobbader4789]

@@JansTaiChi does Josh still play chess?

[@michaelfanning41]

@@bobbader4789 He stopped playing professionally some time ago, I believe.

[@fulldecent]

See my comment below with the official response to the book, which I also summarized and translated to English and cross-referenced to the rulebook.

[@robroberts1473]

I thought tai chi were those folks moving slow in parks this was kind of like Greco roman wrestling cool.

[@adamdecker7721]

This is those slow movements applied to combat. Most arts look very similar when you actually fight, because there are only so many ways a body can move.

[@subsonic9854]

Imagine youre a wrestler who has no training partner and you start shadow boxing. Then imagine that people start learning how to shadow box from you cause they think theyll reverse engineer those moves into your wrestling prowess. Boom: old people doing 'tai chi' in the park.

[@liang3102]

That's Tao Chuan (hand form)

[@kisukeurahara6527]

Yes and in this competition it is more about pushing but it has more, from grabs to quite powerful kicks

[@seamasmanly]

Those slow moves, done well, give our bodies strength to withstand extreme stress.

[@maurus01]

this feels more like a shuaijiao (no jacket) match than a tai chi match...

[@JansTaiChi]

I believe the Chen Village Push Hands competition is more closely related to Shaui Jiao than this. The 16X Tai Chi World Cup Champion Chen Chi-Cheng aka Tuishou Chen competed there and got 2nd place. That should give you a sense of the dirrence in rules.

[@Zz7722zZ]

When there is real resistance and aggression things inevitably get sloppy looking and end up looking no different from wrestling/shuaijiao.

[@itinerantpoet1341]

"Sloppy looking" is the key, b/c when I watch vids of Royce or Harrison or the other top grapplers, I don't see it as sloppy, I see it as those grappling arts exhibited at the highest level. It looks sloppy because it's full resistance, force against force, vying for that one moment of superior leverage in which a throw can be made, or working like a python, slowly over an extended grapple to submit. *But if you guys think that what you're seeing in push hands competition is high level internal art, no one should bother studying tai chi* - they should do Kodokan Judo and Jujitsu and cross train in Karate like Kimura so that they can hold their own at 42 against a 27 year old top fighter who outweighs them by 40 lbs. (Kimura's sparring partner Oyama was wrestling bulls in middle age.) Who do you think had more skill and ability in Kimura vs. Santana-the 27 year old at the peak of his physical strength, or the 42 year old whose body is already starting to break down? And Kimura won the first of the two matches, the grappling-only match, cleanly, b/c he was clearly the higher skill fighter, and certainly greater experience was a factor. Kimura fought to a stalemate in the 2nd, no-holds barred match, even having limited experience in vale tudo. But even there, it's not what we mean by "internal technique", and there's a hard limit on how long you can do external fighting at a high-level, where real internal arts should be able to allow you to hold your own until old age.

[@JAYDEV402]

Currently, reading the book The Art of Learning. Didn't know what tai chi is, now got it...

[@swanhtet1]

The referee’s gestures of giving points are so dramatic. I like it lol

[@JansTaiChi]

The gestures are meant to have the same energy and focus as any martial movement in Kung Fu. I love it too 😂. Thanks for watching. 🙏☯️💪

[@Theggman83]

Im here because I watched "Searching for Bobby Fischer"...

[@LyndenLegault]

I READ THE BOOK TWICE

[@alfredocarrillo5922]

That roll at 10:20... EPIC

[@JansTaiChi]

That’s the iconic moment for sure.

[@mrnicomedes]

What's the following discussion all about? I assume some aspect of the technique was considered improper under the rule-set, but I've got little idea what the details would be. (From reading the comments section, I guess there's a book I should read.)

[@JordanHix]

I just learned about this art. How do the rules differ from Sumo?

[@JansTaiChi]

While we do pull techniques from sumo, I’m no expert in that rule set. The Tai Chi World Cup style of Sports Tuishou (Push Hands) is the highest caliber rule set of its kind (different than the other prestigious competition, Chen Village, which has a sleeveless gi). At the World Cup, which is held every 2 years in Taiwan, there are 2 games that players must prepare for: Fixed Step (players stand on pedestals and must knock each other off for points), and Moving Step (seen in this video, where points are gained for throws and pushing opponents out of the ring). Both games have a collarbone to hip playing area, thereby forcing the players to develop expertise in manipulating that area. You’ll find extensive competition footage, sports drills, and exercises from the traditional foundation of the art of Push Hands on my channel. Thanks for watching. 🙏☯️💪

[@Datum00]

would be interesting how judo player would do in this contest

[@subsonic9854]

Judo too reliant on jacket. Put em in shuai jiao. Here should be greco or freestyle wrestler

[@joelpettit25]

It would be no contest. Even for a novice judo player. Sumo too. There are so many better versions of wrestling in the world.

[@liang3102]

@@joelpettit25 not true, I've seen many judo players easily losing in Tui Shou. You should speak from experience or true knowledge, rather than guessing

[@CobraAquinas]

I'm haven't found a clear explanation of the rules. What exactly would prevent a greco specialist from using his moves in this? A lack of body locks essentially? Just curious, excellent upload.

[@franciscoarana3735]

I think it's something about locking hands around an opponent.

[@fulldecent]

The rules for this tournament are at cttaichi.org/english/manage/Files/R1.pdf Well, actually, the Chinese version is normative www.cttaichi.org/rule.php

[@basseyedetjr9054]

@@fulldecent great guy

[@spencerjoseph2589]

Searching for Bobby Fischer sent me hear what the hell is the art of learning

[@JansTaiChi]

🤣🤣🤣

[@radphilospher]

I thought the principles of Tai Chi were to to fluidly redirect your opponent's movements with very little force. This doesn't look like that at all. It looks like wrestling--using force, strength, weight, and large energetic output to force your opponent in a particular direction. This looks like many other external martial arts. Please explain?

[@JansTaiChi]

Tai Chi is often confused for something other than a fighting art. It does have massive benefits, mental, physical, and spiritual, but it is for fighting, and fighting can get rough, awkward, and sloppy, even at the highest levels.

[@radphilospher]

Yeah, fair enough. I guess it's just sort of baffling that MMA seems to be by far the best fighting art (though I know it's a combination of various art forms). The majority of fighters are either American or Brazilian, and they are young athletes, not masters with decades of experience. It's somewhat disillusioning how many fascinating martial art forms out there don't amount to much when fighting other than the same basic clenching, grappling, and striking techniques used by modern MMA. Ah well, God is dead, and so is the mystique of ancient art forms. If something looks beautiful and different and surprising (internal martial arts), it'll look like the same old shit in actual combat. So be it. Thanks for the input.

[@JansTaiChi]

MMA is a game changer because of the scientific process behind the combination of various styles to suit each fighter. The world has never been this interconnected, and therefore we feel and see that impact in all areas of society. There are very few Tai Chi MMA fighters, but hopefully we'll see more soon and how they stand up against those without the unique (and to the uninitiated, often surprising) Tai Chi techniques. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[@mactireliath2356]

Taiji was also an art damaged by the horrendous political conditions in its country of origin. It may be 50 years before the right synergy of internal understanding unifies with external development to show high level Taiji. Even in the U.S, without those repressive conditions, it will be the 4th generation students of MMA who grow up in training who will receive the most complete training. These Taiji practitioners carry the torch for future generations to explore and express this form.

[@joelhusbands3838]

In real those principles that you just described don't often appear as they do on film. fighting is quick, tough and brutal th

[@LyndenLegault]

"Cheated...cheated with the clock too"

[@greg6509]

Do these guys know the difference between Jin and Li?

[@sampostman6305]

Now let’s see the Buffalo play Josh in chess

[@JansTaiChi]

Best comment 😂😂😂😂😂☯️💪

[@WillsThoughts]

I do also partially agree and voice the opinions of others that this does look rather tame compared to BJJ or any MMA. Having said that, I still respect what Josh has accomplished and he's gotten into BJJ lately, which is a lot like chess on a mental level.

[@liang3102]

It's just push Hands, you should see full contact San shou

[@artistryartistry7239]

I do not understand how what we see here is the culmination of years of in depth and specialized training. What am I missing?

[@JansTaiChi]

Tai Chi, and especially Push Hands (Tuishou) training is also referred to as "hidden strength" or "iron wrapped in cotton". The unique strengths and talents gained from training, especially in the martial sense, many times must be felt to be understood. Those experienced in training at a high level in the art or sport will see certain talents these two fighters have, such as strong stances that make them both very hard to move (or disrupt each other's balance), hence how amazing it is to see these guys throw each other. They are also quickly countering each others positions to set up moves, which is tough to notice if you haven't played the game. On a more basic level, Tai Chi Push Hands' martial applications can be seen as "counter-wrestling", and perhaps by a more inexperienced eye, sloppy counter-wrestling. It can be easy to mistake something that is not often seen or felt, as Push Hands is still in it's fledgling stages as a sport, and few competitors have branched out into professional fighting such as MMA to showcase the Tai Chi skills adapted to traditional sport fighting. One pro fighter that is from a Tai Chi family is Maximillion Chen, son of Grandmaster William C. C. Chen (Josh's Tai Chi teacher). Here's a link to some of his highlights: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqvPoYtmmdR-aLc Hope this info gives you a bit more insight. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@武龙-b1c]

Once I tried to move pushing with all my strenght to a Taiji high level practitioner and i wasn´t able to move him even one inch from the floor. I´m 85 Kg i thought i was a tough guy but i should to admit, there´s some technique or skill than practicing by years and when apply correctly they can be steady as a heavy rock. I´m a Taiji Chen practitioner but i didn´t got that level (yet) Not easy to reach it.

[@jamesart9]

Everything : ) Read 'The Art Of Learning'

[@tdreamgmail]

Hidden in plain sight

[@grexz1]

Josh Waitzkin was a chess master as a kid.

[@realcmdrkeen]

Is that William C. C. Chen on the sideline talking to the judges around 14:15?

[@JansTaiChi]

Yes.

[@ronin2167]

I didn't know of this. I study Aikido and Judo and was wondering if there was a way to do our Aikido hand randori in a more Judo esq manner to make it more applicable to real word. I always want to use my Aikido in our Judo and vise versa. I have come to think of our Aikido as a standing grappling or that's the direction I am focusing on. Videos on Aikido Toushu Randori is pretty close. This is the answer. AikiJudo.

[@itinerantpoet1341]

I love O-Sensi, *especially* the videos from when he was very old!

[@rasraster]

That was a pretty good sumo match

[@BlantonDelbert]

Waitzkin clearly won the match outright. Should not have been a tie like the officials said. (Afterwards as explained in Waitzkin's book.) The officials are corrupt. Read the Waitzkin's book, "The Art of Learning."

[@matthewrigby6089]

@Don Mega He's lying on the ground to recover between rounds. It's kind of his thing. Also, this was immediately after scoring two points to tie the first round, and just before scoring another three consecutive points at the beginning of the second round. If the rest of us are wearing bjj fanboy goggles, you are wearing jealous hater glasses.

[@hermannbohn7697]

Ha, sour losers they were. CC Chen lost lists of face!

[@ashscott6068]

Don't move until you see it.

[@TheWeebs1968]

How come these guys don’t have super powers, like all the frauds on the internet, where people go bouncing all over the place when touched. This is more like Wrestling, and what you would expect with a resisting opponent . You guys need to call out all the Fakes, taking people’s money.

[@JansTaiChi]

Thanks for this message. We only support scientific, strategic Tuishou (Push Hands). Too many fakes to call out, so we'll just let quality speak for itself.

[@itinerantpoet1341]

"Medicine show" performance like you're describing has always been part of the wider arts, utilized to get money. The difference is, in the old days, it was performed in he streets, where today it is all too often used to con unsuspecting seekers. (In the old days, other masters would have shut down such a school.)

[@samirmussa1]

It's basically just wrestling no front headlock

[@LeBronJames-cw7hr]

How can josh be good at two entirely different sports?

[@jitsmapper4438]

He's also a BJJ black belt

[@SebPaquet1]

The Art of Learning book explains it!

[@AdamScarchilli]

Because he discovered The Art of Learning :)

[@mboujon]

Good match. Unfortunate for Josh. Tai Chi looks like a Martial Art.

[@CreativeImpulseEnt]

+Josh Wong the final decision was to call the match a tie. We describe a bit in the video description, but this is detailed vividly in Josh's book The Art of Learning. Thanks for watching!

[@mateosmind751]

@Don Mega Clearly you haven't read it jackass. This event is not the premise of the book just an anecdote. Propaganda would be saying Tai Chi works in a fight.

[@davidmunteanu2387]

who won?

[@tomgeorge7281]

This needs some play-by-play and color commentary dubbed over it. 8-)

[@JansTaiChi]

Thanks for this comment. I will make a commentary video.

[@smokingblues5067]

What's the difference between this and sumo ?

[@markhor1988]

Sumos real

[@paxonearth]

About 500 lbs.

[@liang3102]

@@markhor1988 not for you it's not

[@muneebibraheem7158]

is it Tai Chi or Jujitsu ? i have seen another videos of Tai Chi But They are different

[@liang3102]

Its push hands

[@diffgeo23]

What's the difference between this and Greco-Roman wrestling?

[@liang3102]

Its Chinese

[@itinerantpoet1341]

Very little, and at this level it's going to be necessarily similar to excellent arts of greco-roman, judo or BJJ, but less specialized. It takes more than a decade to really get root and internal technique, so push hands competition is always mostly wrestling. I'm linking a short clip of the kind of stuff a real wudang master can do, but note that he's in middle age, too old for prizefighting: kzbin.infoilXWix10cZ0 Understand also that he's a product of "full time, whole life" training, similar to the real Shaolin monks.

[@justinmilner8]

From a quick glance at the rules, the major differences are: you can't touch above the collarbone (ie no collar ties), no foot sweeps, must have contact prior to any attack, very different stalling penalties, and the duration/scoring is very different.

[@Daxdax006]

Just finished the book. Had to come here immediately to see this spectacular cheating.

[@not0468]

Just before watching this I saw some absolute bullshit push hands KZbinr "discover Taiji" Damn near had a heart attack because I absolutely loved "the art of the learning". Thank god this is legitimate.

[@JansTaiChi]

Thanks. We’re here to filter out the BS of the Tai Chi community and showcase the art as the high performance tool it really is.

[@igorschimidt1985]

What happened around 11:30?

[@JansTaiChi]

Igor, the Taiwanese judges were claiming that Josh's shoulder blast technique was against the rules, but it was later deemed to be legal.

[@ericwullenbaecker9934]

corrupt referees...

[@nopenguinsinfinland]

yep, it was a disgrace, even the opponent´s coach said that according to Josh. read Josh´s book art of learning where he speaks about this match, eventually they ended up sharing the championship but without the help of the referees and other rulers, josh would have clearly been the champ. they really wanted a local fighter to win. Josh is a true competitor for being able to perform in such conditions.

[@maljamin]

Why is push hands so graspy? Obviously it's more effective as a martial art, but the whole idea is limitation. When I learned it there was no grasping wrists or arms. I almost think they should wear some kind of "mitten" or flattened glove. That at least restores it to a flow based on pushes and yields. If not, then why not just do judo or jiu jitsu?

[@Erime]

Taichi is called the 'supreme ultimate' because it was like the original MMA - it incorporated everything. However, to not suffer the kinds of injuries your see in muay thai, etc., they reduced the sportive 'sparring' element to grappling PLUS 'push hands.' Alas, the true push hands element seems to have become degraded within taichi circles in general, but it is well and alive in yiquan (see Cui Ruibin's pure push-hands, for example), and some taiji guys cross-train in yiquan to better hone the skill. So when good grappling and good proper push-hands come together, then it is closer to the true idea of 'supreme ultimate' - it is not just grappling. In this respect, eventually true taichi push hands guys should excel over judo-style grapplers...

[@itinerantpoet1341]

Agreed. I was taught to push with my forearms, partly because of players who use chin na, but also because, no matter how great my grip strength, my grip will never be as strong as my waist. (All movement in real wudang comes from the waist, and the arms and legs merely follow, with emptying and sinking of the joints providing extra change to direct the physical energy and alter the frame.)

[@itinerantpoet1341]

@@Erime My sense of Muay Thai is that it's optimized to inflict as much punishment as possible while leaving the competitors on their feet, since, as an entertainment, it seems largely to be about the exploitation of poor people via a bloodsport that leaves most of them crippled in old age. And I'll make the point that one cannot typically use hsingyi striking safely, because it's all about joint and organ strikes. There, focus only comes after the hand, knuckle or foot are in contact with the opponent's body, i.e. *after you've already set the opponent up for the strike with grappling*. So sparring with a taichi/bagua/hsingyi background becomes an exercise in restraint.

[@Erime]

@@itinerantpoet1341 Yes, real muai thai allows for '12-6' elbow down onto back of opponent's head, for example - not even UFC is into that. And there's not much sparring in MT with 'proper' elbows in Western contexts. As regards exploiting people within the art, sure, it happens in Western boxing also, but I wouldn't assume there aren't those who love the sport for what it is. Everyone's destined to age, become crippled in various ways and then die 🤷 - it seems recommendable to try to enjoy our life to fullest in the way we feel suited to before that inevitable fate. XingYiQuan - from what I've encountered of true expressions of XingYi fajing, it's no different from 'power punches' from the feet in Western boxing, which means the likes of Tyson were naturally gifted in the art. As regards precision strikes to joints and organs, in UFC, beyond liver and solar plexus shots, as well as oblique kicks to knees (throat, groin, and back of the head strikes of course not applicable here (even though many roundhouse kick KOs tend to strike behind the ear if you look closely)), I'm not sure that approach is proving all that it is made out to be - the old 'sophisticated pressure points attack' debate. But, again, solar plexus, liver, throat, groin, and back of head are all viable, aren't they. So perhaps that's the true origin of the approach?

[@justinstreeter1595]

It seems as if this is wrestling!

[@XTen1000DaysX]

says he won the 2004 championship but at the end they raise buffalo hand?

[@ciefounder]

Yes, but later in the event both Josh and The Buffalo we're given a tie for the world championship title. This is a very controvetial match. However, Josh did outright win the Fixed Step Gold against the Buffalo, seen here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h4C8l6uJq7iWZrs

[@andrewh.4186]

@Don Mega The book didn't say he won outright.

[@digitalvalidity9553]

If Judo and Sumo had a baby.

[@kenbrohere]

Someone explain what the referee is doing?

[@wally19]

The where arguing about that throw and then about an unfair over time. You could find all the details in the book.

[@illiJomusic]

I can't stand all the restrictions and rules in competition push hands. Nigates much of the styles application

[@ekbergiw]

Watch to the end

[@silverchairsg]

I bet every single one of you came here because of the book.

[@johntatum1951]

similar to judo if you ask me...

[@tonyadkins4155]

Nobody did

[@liang3102]

@darkwing dook yes to an untrained eye

[@itinerantpoet1341]

Agreed. This is mostly external wrestling because the players are too young to have developed real internal technique. But, that doesn't mean we should have push hands and sanshou competition.

[@tubber]

nice work but this is wrestling more than its tai chi push hands.

[@benpork8533]

What are they doing? They are trying to push the other outside circle? This is Tai chi?

[@JansTaiChi]

Points are acquired by either pushing an opponent out of the circle or throwing the opponent on the ground. This is the Tai Chi grappling sport of Tuishou (Push Hands), not to be confused with the slower Push Hands drills that are commonly seen.

[@liang3102]

It's Tui Shou, one aspect of five

[@kenikerflores5878]

Who is jhon waitzkin tgere?

[@MonkeyDao9]

Decent upright wrestling. But this sport has nothing to do with Tai Chi and should be called what it is. Which is cool, nothing wrong with standup wrestling.

[@pedrocabral177]

I think this is similar to chinese wrestling - wushu shuaijiao.

[@mrvgranfield]

Grappling v Tai chi: I've never seen this before My master would go mad if he caught you leaning forward Have they no idea that you end up dead if you do that in a fight It seems as if bad habits have been allowed as a kick to the thowt is so easy with this type of terrible stance work. Well done China for toleration

[@zes7215]

no such thing as win/losex, doens't matter, be,do/can be,do any nmw and any can be perfect

[@BiggCuzz803]

What is this, small people sumo wrestling? I was reading "Art of Learning" and came here to get a visual. This is not what he described.

[@HenrikAkselsen]

Yes it is.

[@pantojafelipe]

indeed!

[@liang3102]

Yes it is

[@varoplazer]

I believe at some point Josh's hand breaks.

[@JansTaiChi]

No, the only injury hear is on the Buffalo's elbow. Josh did break his hand in a Push Hands bout several years before against Novell G. Bell.

[@varoplazer]

Thank you! I was trying to figure out the competition where his hand was broken.

[@52000rightwing]

I cannot quite figure out the rules from watching this. What I can say, with certainty, is that wrestling is better.

[@JansTaiChi]

Playing area is collar bone to hip. Points scored by throwing an opponent on the floor (2) or pushing out of the ring (1).

[@liang3102]

No at all

[@darciotivanejohnsen3575]

Time to implement VAR in Martial Arts! :)

[@Aromamindful]

Wow looks like judo

[@daveneedham4443]

Tai Chi Chuan, an art, turned into a bullsh*t competition. :(

[@membender]

For a world championship match, it certainly didn't seem to be the center of everyone's attention! Were there other things going on, or is this just a cultural "thing"? Seems it should be front and center stage, in a better setting than a gymnasium. I hope that's changed, too. Scoring explanation or at least a scoreboard would again help, too.

[@EC-ol8nz]

3:00 was a brilliant attempted throw. If he had learned basic high school wrestling the later Greco-Roman he would have completed the throw within bounds of the ring. Also if they practiced freestyle wrestling you would not come out with your knees locked. As a basic collegial wrestling when I full wrestling vs Judo or jujitsu friends they were very susceptible to a basic leg take down. You just had to keep your arm up to block a kick then force your shoulder into their out stretched leg. No problem!!👍 wrestling weakness is the punch counter punch and blocks. This is why Gracie-jujitsu works so well.. Jujitsu + wrestling. Jet-kun-do and Winchun performed by a muscular opponent is effective to🙂 I don’t like “mixed martial art” it all should be called Gracie Brazilian Jujutsu😁 Also after 10:50 say nothing and you just mean mug the judges like Bruce Lee and thumb wipe the nose at your opponent. U Win 🤣🤣🤣

[@alexanp4225]

I'm shocked at how much bs was involved in this fight. My first introduction to competitive tai chi is watching the refs play favorites to a guy who gt beat anyway. lolz

[@liang3102]

Its not fighting its Tui Shou

[@hermannbohn7697]

Sour losers the Americans were. I watched it myself!

[@alexanp4225]

@@hermannbohn7697 lmao my husband typed this

[@alexdumortier]

At least he ended pursuing a legitimate martial art.

[@bjojosimpson]

BJJ? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@iaingill4879]

this is just wrestling, not pushing hands

[@ThisSentenceIsFalse]

This China, not your fantasy.

[@KynanForsberg]

7:20 No shit?

[@TheShepherd2305]

So how did the other guy cheat?

[@matthewrigby6089]

The refs let the second round go longer than 2 minutes and ended it as soon as Buffalo scored a third point to tie the second round. In the third round, Josh was down 2-1 when he threw Buffalo, but the judges ruled that it was an illegal throw so he didn't tie the round. So round 1 was tied, round 2 should have been won by Josh and round 3 should have been a draw. Following a review of his throw in round 3, the judges decided to crown both fighters champion even though Josh would have won if the judges hadn't been corrupt.

[@matthewrigby6089]

@Don Mega A few mistakes by the referees is kind of important when the score is tied or decided by 1-2 points.

[@mariadoloresgamboa783]

Que debatían los jueces

[@luisg.ontoriaalvarez2334]

+Maria Dolores Gamboa No estoy seguro pero creo que no esta permitido levantar al rival y eso es lo que hizo josh. Me gusta el tai chi pero sigo a josh por el ajedrez, fue un genio, en el tai chi lo hace muy bien aunque solo piensa en la victoria. Un buen campeon ha de pensar en la belleza del resultado tambien. Pienso yo.

[@luisg.ontoriaalvarez2334]

+willy ontoria no se... Ahora viendolo repetido tengo mis dudas

[@wally19]

+Maria Dolores Gamboa según el libro, recuerdo que puede que al principio estaban discutiendo de algo tecnico pero luego hubo una queja por el tiempo, dejaron pasar de mas dando ventaja a Buffalo. Voy a releerlo porque ya no recuerdo bien.

[@jrborgify]

this is just grappling. Not sure about all the romanticism that revolves around the sport especially in regards to qi

[@scottphillips8117]

Long time Tai Chi practitioner and BJJ brown belt. Also great admirer of Josh. This is truly awful, martially speaking. Contains literally nothing of value to fighting and its nothing like tai chi.

[@Jun-me8kq]

The Buffalo seems confident and well-trained. Apparently, he's a better player in this video. He deserved win.

[@Raven-gz8pq]

Denver John I thought the point was josh was winning and the judges repeatedly overruled or broke the rules to give the home player a better chance

[@tradingbr]

he didnt win. it was a tie

[@PeterOzanne]

He's better? So why did Josh beat him in this video? He had more legal throws, and one of the Buffalo's was after the time limit. Only corrupt officials said different. And you know that, so either you are joking, or you are legally blind ;-)

[@PeterOzanne]

@@tradingbr Not legally. The rule is that if the score is level, the lighter player wins. Afterwards, they agreed to have a tiebreaker, because they re-judged Josh's last throw as legal. If it was legal, points were level, and Josh wins anyway on weight difference. Apart from the time-cheating and the other disallowed throws!!

[@TheEnneagram]

W T F ???

[@JimmySlacksack]

wow didnt know Josh was a Chess Grandmaster and a BJJ black belt!!

[@matthewrigby6089]

International master, but yeah still incredible to be so good at both.

[@johnnycorona8851]

@@matthewrigby6089 He was just 20 points away. 2480 was his peak in 1998 when he was all-in. Pretty impressive human being.

[@nderezic]

This looks like a tickling competition ... where occasionally they fall down. They must be having a lot of fun ...

[@7511maxim]

It"s not taiji tuishou. It looks like kind of greco-roman wrestling.

[@liang3102]

Its push hands

[@CosmicChannel9]

wrestling

[@wanderer0013]

wrestling hand-fighting...

[@JansTaiChi]

Exactly, but that approach expanded across all limbs. “Push Hands” is an inaccurate term for the sport.

[@wanderer0013]

@@JansTaiChi in this context, taichi makes perfect sense! The movies got it all wrong! 😅

[@JansTaiChi]

@@wanderer0013 YES 🙌 People really took those Peking Opera performances as fact and think wire-fu is real 🤣

[@bboyformigify]

oss

[@ECS1022]

The lost art is lost.

[@liang3102]

Not to everyone

[@itinerantpoet1341]

Trust me, my friend, it's still alive and well, but very few in any given generation are able to put in sufficient time, and today, it's almost impossible to get close students to do the same: kzbin.infoilXWix10cZ0 kzbin.infoXtpJMyvjDyA "Full time, whole life"

[@KALKAL_ISYU]

not taichi match just pushing match

[@jaredhinton5662]

shark bate ooh ah ha

[@OldHickory7]

Bruce Pandolfini was right. He needs to give that up and concentrate on chess.

[@PeterOzanne]

Because he won the world championship at this event, or because it looks ugly?

[@fuoliz]

from this m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/d3jJdml5Zp2Yhtk to the above. Ale jacta est

[@imalamboman12]

Lol if this was someone like Chen Xiaowang he would not move at all .

[@plaxagoras]

Lmao this is a sport?

[@profd65]

Two Dungeons and Dragon dorks sumo wrestling

[@JansTaiChi]

LOL that's hilarious! Don't knock it till you try it. Even UFC fighters play with us and see the unique benefits (that video coming soon).

[@JansTaiChi]

But that's seriously a funny comment lolol!

[@profd65]

@Don Mega What's the logical fallacy, shit for brains? I'm waiting.

[@hwillis8]

Lmao why are they so tired?

[@JansTaiChi]

This sport emphasizes a technique called "Rooting", which is essentially creating rapid fire pressure redirection circuits through body positioning to maintain and claim space within the ring. It requires a significant amount of intercostal muscle strength and sensitivity. Hence, after 2 full days of competition, these guys are tired.

[@zenzybar]

To be fair I'm going to assume it's harder than it looks. Watch boxing sparring and it doesn't look that bad, but when trying it you realise you're going to die from no air and it's just practice. Your whole body is engaged and your mind is in overdrive. Martial arts are tough, there's no real break in a round.

[@douglasross4958]

Who is paying for this? Oh yeah, gambling.

[@JansTaiChi]

I wish!