Finishing The Ladder, Soldering Rail Joiners (146)

[@daytonpyro]

19:00 a tip i learned from MR CARLSONS LAB is that you use a 100 plus watt soldering gun and a 12- or 10-gauge copper loop on that gun instead of the stock tip. and it will heat super fast and maybe add some flux to the joints, then you cool it off with a wet cloth... he has a video on it. but what turnouts do you have in this video. the things you do is amazing, creative mind.

[@TheLocutus70]

Who cares how long it takes, it's more videos for us to watch.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Exactly!

[@sergioarroyoguerrero5434]

Good job my friend, i used tracks nails Atlas for HO and N scale.

[@ronduz1281]

another great video larry Keep them coming 👍👍👍

[@Mookie1340]

Great video.👍🏻

[@elsdp-4560]

THANK YOU...for sharing.

[@TheSonofruss]

You can also get pre wired rail joiners

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yes, and you can easily make them yourself. However I prefer to use a larger wire than is available on the prefab units I have seen.

[@HampsGroove]

Great video but to what is the green wire attached on the turnout?

[@TheDCCGuy]

The wire to power the frog-because frogs are green!

[@68Jaguar420G]

Once all the fitting has been done and you are ready to permanently set the track onto the roadbed try using regular push pins instead of tee-pins. The larger diameter pin and flat bottom of the head allows you to exert some force onto the track giving better contact into the adhesive and thus a better stronger bond. This is most notable in a more firm sub-roadbed such as homasote but even in foam it will be an improvement.

[@branstuttergroup6240]

I have never liked soldering to turnouts. How do you unsolder them if you need to change things up at a later date ?

[@TheDCCGuy]

I just cut them out with a Dremel too and then heat the ends to remove the joiners.

[@blainedunlap4242]

You must have the eyesight and hand-eye coordination of a fighter pilot, can't fit those in less than 20 tries. I want to see you do another, don't believe anyone can do that so fast. The cliamping thing is absolutely necessary, if you glue or screw, if it hangs straight it will work. Not doing it like you show means it's to forward, sideways or whatever. I have a couple dozen to do this weekend, want to fly in and handle that. You make it look easy and didn't have to cuss once.

[@tonyhill6296]

Hi Larry, Have subscribed and enjoy both the content and your style of presentation. Have recently opted to add this soldering technique to improve my track laying standards. Please advise the temp setting of the iron you use and if you are using ‘cored’ solder. I use large ‘bulldog clips’ to act as heat sinks. 🚂 T

[@TheDCCGuy]

There are a lot of variables when setting the temp. Thin pencil tips need higher temps than large flat ones. And som irons have temp sensors to maintain a certain point whereas others do not. So you really need to experiment with your setup. Since I often use a pencil tip I leave it on 800 degrees F plus I use heat sinks and work as fast as possible to avoid melting plastic ties and spikes/chairs. Although I do use rosin core solder I often add paste flux to guarantee I don’t burn it all off with a lot of heat. It was very helpful when installing the Rail Aligners in my most recent video.

[@tonyhill6296]

Hi Again Larry, Thanks for the very prompt and helpful reply. I also use solder paste and am blessed with a new variable temp soldering station. Will be experimenting to get the best results with a pencil tip, instead of the narrow chisel used so far. Have a Safe and Peaceful Christmas. Happy Modelling everyone! T 🚂

[@douglasallen511]

Is the following idea feasible for mounting the switch machine ? : prior to installing the turnout attach the machine to the bottom of the turnout with glue or double sided tape, get it all adjusted and centered, cut off the top of machine wire then lower the whole thing into the layout .

[@TheDCCGuy]

Peco makes solenoid machines that are designed to work with their turnouts exactly that way. I guess you could do that with the Blue Points or Tortoises but they are designed with this method in mind so it is easier if you plan ahead and follow the instructions. The problem comes when the turnouts are laid first and then cannot be reached from the bottom and top at the same time.

[@michaelsmodelrailroading7665]

I saw an article a while back, I think in Model Railroader, pertinent to installing Tortoise switch machines, wherein the author used a piece of double-sided tape on the joining face of the switch machine, to hold it in place on the bottom of the layout, after he "stabbed" the spring wire through the hole in the throwbar. This seemed sufficient to hold the switch machine in place while he secured it with screws.

[@blainedunlap4242]

Grind off the catches. Just about the time you get a grip on it, it catches. So handy. But they are a substitute for your grip and need to open and close.

[@onkyonky4740]

Thanks again Larry, maybe the name of the video series is more aptly "model railroading a journey all of its own". Any way it is what I want to watch.

[@JohnJacklitsch]

Do we not use flux when soldering the joiners?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Some do, some don’t. I usually do even though I use solder with flux in it already.

[@bobainsworth5057]

A quick question on preparing turn out. Why cut rails passed points when you could use insulated rail joiners? I think it's faster and doesn't weaken rails.

[@TheDCCGuy]

First, since I solder the cut rails to the running rails it does not weaken them, if anything it makes them stronger. Now the reason I do it is because in the operating sessions I have attended where Peco turnouts like these are used, I have noticed that operators tend creep up as close to the frog as they can get while waiting for a train to pass on the other track and to run past the insulated rail joiners on a too frequent basis and the resulting short shuts down the layout. By simply cutting them back to just before the frog that does not happen. If you look at other brands of turnouts that is how they are designed. It also is how the new Peco Unifrog turnouts are designed, they seem to agree with me!!

[@bobainsworth5057]

@@TheDCCGuy Well that makes sense.Thanks for answering.

[@PaulSmith-pl7fo]

Hi Larry. Great educational video. Can you tell me where (preferably in the UK) I could get the heatsink clips you use for soldering, please?

[@TheDCCGuy]

When you search look for heat sink soldering clips. I found some just like those in the video on Amazon at www.amazon.com/Amplified_Parts-Heat-Sink/dp/B009VNUZYS/ref=sr_1_12?crid=14COGBW56JENE&dchild=1&keywords=soldering+heat+sink+clips&qid=1605538866&sprefix=soldering+heat+sink%2Caps%2C211&sr=8-12 You can also use a pair of hemostats like the one I used for gripping the Blue Point wire. Another common version are metal alligator clips. You should be able to find those many places.

[@PaulSmith-pl7fo]

@@TheDCCGuy Thanks, Larry.

[@paulwhite6543]

I am using hollow core doors. How large should I make the throw hole?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Depends on what the instructions say, have you checked them?

[@paulwhite6543]

I have not received my blue points yet, but I was wondering I guess if you’re using 2 inch foam board a hollow core door shouldn’t be no problem I just thought I’d ask thanks

[@TheDCCGuy]

You may need to provide longer throw rods made from music wire available at hobby shops. Some folks who have used 2” foam recess the switch machines into the bottom. Most hollow core doors are only an inch thick though.

[@jamescraft672]

If you have expansion gaps and want electrical continuity, how do you do it? Maybe little wires connected across the gap?

[@jimhallett1673]

If you have a bus wire system, what i do is solder 2 droppers onto the small metal pieces of wire that Larry fitted on the under side the point and connect these to the bus wire, no need to solder the fishplates. You can therefore leave an expansion gap, if needed.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yes, you could do that but on those electrically isolated sections I add feeders or droppers to each rail and then connect them to the DCC power bus as I showed previously. This means having to solder more feeders but it gives reliable power. Loose, unsoldered rail joiners can lose electrical continuity due to oxidation, paint, and glue getting in. Some rail joiners are initially tight and can give an electrical connection which then fails or is only intermittent over time-very hard to diagnose. Soldering all but a limited number of joiners guarantees an electrical connection for the lifetime of the layout or owner whichever comes first.

[@marioangols3186]

Hi Larry, thanks for other great video. Can you please let me know where can I find the heat sink clamps that you use, there are nice because the point finish that suits very good to the rail, it will be a nice addition to my tools. See you soon in other of your videos, and stay safe.

[@michaelsmodelrailroading7665]

Do a web search on . Click on "Images." There are several different vendors who offer a clip on product similar to those that Larry uses. You will also find other types of clip-on heat sinks. Some might be more suitable than others, depending on the specific situation. It's always good to have more than one tool in the tool box.

[@donaldkormos5529]

Larry ... as always a great video ... you never fail to provide motivation. Question: What size T pins do you find most useful when laying track?

[@TheDCCGuy]

The ones in the videos are 1.5” but I also have a number of smaller 1.25” long ones. I mainly use the larger ones. You can usually find these in hobby shops and mail order vendors that deal in RC airplane kits and supplies-in the USA, Hobbytown.

[@donaldkormos5529]

Thanks!!! I need to pick some up.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Amazon has many different assortments too.

[@space_coast_snapshots6457]

If I’m using rail clamps, is soldering a need, I already have a garden layout and want to convert or atleast run a mogul which is dcc, tia

[@TheDCCGuy]

What are rails clamps? At any rate I recommend soldi g rail joiners to get bullet proof electrical continuity. Otherwise the connections at rails in the garden tend to oxidize and get fouled with leaf litter, dirt, etc., and you locos stop running unless you connect feeder wires to each section of track.

[@space_coast_snapshots6457]

@@TheDCCGuyI’m using piko style clamps

[@TheDCCGuy]

OK, LGB size clamps, now I see what you mean. If I ever put in a garden railway I think I would use Blunami decoder and go with battery power.

[@space_coast_snapshots6457]

@@TheDCCGuy my dc locos already have sound cards, not sure I could do battery switch, I just bought a lgb 20283 loco, it works fine but no smoke till I run dcc, a lot of money for not being able to atleast get the smoke option

[@evertloo1]

Hello Larry.... I'm busy building almost the same shunting layout. 2500x600mm Also split in the middle. I soldered feeder wires to every section of track, so no need to solder the fishplates. Any reason you went this rout? Or is it more a personal preferance? I need to invest in the blue point motors, they look awesome. Thank you for the great videos. I really enjoy them. Cheers, Evert, South Africa.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Assuming you drop a feeder from every piece of rail connected by fishplates (rail joiners) then there is no need to solder them.I do it because I only connect feeders about every 6 feet with code 75 rail. On the Piedmont Southern which is mainly code 83 I drop feeders about every 8 feet. Naturally this means that since flextrack is no more than 3 feet long I have to have rail joiners in there and they need to be soldered for reliable electrical continuity or I would need more feeders. On something like a yard ladder some stock rails can be essentially continuous for 3 feet whereas some are no longer than a turnout or two so instead of dropping a bunch of feeders I just solder the rail joiners. Basically I prefer to soldier the rail joiners instead of having a lot of feeders to connect to the power bus under the layout-I find it a lot easier on my back to not have to crawl around down there!

[@MRR_Shadowolf]

Great video.What gauge throw rods do you use? I have all tortoise switch machines, but wasn't sure if needed to upgrade the throw rods. First layout just beginning it so unsure. Thanks!

[@TheDCCGuy]

I suggest using the ones that come with it if long enough for your installation. However with my 1” thick subroadbed and the cork roadbed mine is a tad bit too thick so I use K&E 0.032” dia steel music wire from the hobby shop. They have a distinctive display of red cardboard tubes holding the wire in just about all US hobby shops

[@jimhallett1673]

Hi Larry, another great video thank you. Where did you purchase the heatsink clips, cannot seem to find them in the UK, unless they go under a different name? Thanks Jim

[@TheDCCGuy]

When you search look for heat sink soldering clips. I found some just like those in the video on Amazon at www.amazon.com/Amplified_Parts-Heat-Sink/dp/B009VNUZYS/ref=sr_1_12?crid=14COGBW56JENE&dchild=1&keywords=soldering+heat+sink+clips&qid=1605538866&sprefix=soldering+heat+sink%2Caps%2C211&sr=8-12 You can also use a pair of hemostats like the one I used for gripping the Blue Point wire. Another common version are metal alligator clips. You should be able to find those many places.

[@jimhallett1673]

@@TheDCCGuy Brilliant, thanks Larry

[@abdullahabu1252]

Hi. Larry. What type manual switch I can use it with blue point switch machine? Best regards

[@TheDCCGuy]

The video, is coming hopefully in the next week.

[@joelvale3887]

What jointers should I use to connect a PECO turnout and an Atlas flex track code 83 ?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Peco says their SL-110 joiners are sized for both code 75 and code 83 rails. Also are you using their code 83 turnouts for American protoypes or their UK turnouts?

[@68Jaguar420G]

@@TheDCCGuy I have found that the SL-110 joiners are too small for Atlas code 83 super-flex track. The cross section of the Atlas rail, particularly at the base, is much thicker than the Peco rail. Yes you can force the SL-110 onto the Atlas track but it is touch and go at best and the chances of bending the joiner is pretty high. Experience has shown me that the Atlas code 100/83 rail joiners are better if you gently squeeze them down a small amount on the side that will go onto the Peco track/switch.

[@abdullahabu1252]

Good day Larry. The blue point switch machine Are they stall or solenoid type machines? Please advice me. Best Regards

[@TheDCCGuy]

They are manual.

[@geoffwalker315]

The rail joiners (fishplates) you are using seem to be a loose fit whereas Peco rail joiners are very tight fit. No joint soldering required.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Those are Peco rail joiners on Peco track and turnouts.

[@geoffwalker315]

@@TheDCCGuy I only use code 100 track so maybe there is only one joiner for all sizes of track.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I know they make a different one for code 100. However this SL-110 is sized for both code 75 and 83 so the might have added a little wiggle room for the code 83 rail.

[@geoffwalker315]

@@TheDCCGuy I learn more every day Larry. Looking forward to the next episode.

[@jamescraft672]

Maybe it's obvious, but the hole for the wire from the Blue Point needs to be drilled before you glue down the turnout. Maybe you said that earlier.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yes, that is the method they are designed for. I have heard of folks who try to drill the holes afterwards and it can easily result in damage to the points if the drill goes too far. However, as one manufacturer once told me, real men don’t read or follow instructions!

[@68Jaguar420G]

Larry, I recommend you try placing your camera on the opposite side of your work-site so the viewer can see the work being done rather than have your hands block the view so often. It would be a big benefit, especially to novices early in their journey through this great hobby.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yes, it’s easier to see that after you’ve finished doing the filming and the work ! Un fortunately shooting from the other side would meant folks would not be able to see what I an doing on my side. Having a film crew would be the way to go.

[@daveschenkel1446]

You keep calling those clips heat sinks, I cant find them on amazon, where did you get them and what are they called? If you can please put a link to them, thanks

[@TheDCCGuy]

Here is an Amazon link www.amazon.com/Amplified_Parts-Heat-Sink/dp/B009VNUZYS/ref=sr_1_12?crid=14COGBW56JENE&dchild=1&keywords=soldering+heat+sink+clips&qid=1605538866&sprefix=soldering+heat+sink%2Caps%2C211&sr=8-12

[@daveschenkel1446]

@@TheDCCGuy Thanks so much I couldnt find them. got them now.

[@6666668001]

Too much talk.

[@TheDCCGuy]

You don’t have to listen just scroll past it.

[@modelrailroader5145]

Can you please insert a clip on how to lay (cut etc.) the roadbed for the turnouts?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Sorry, I thought I had done that back in an earlier video but I didn’t. At this point all the turnouts are in place on the modules but I still have a lot to install on the Piedmont Southern so I will do a special video on that, just as soon as I can.

[@modelrailroader5145]

Also what turnout # does one use in ladder?

[@TheDCCGuy]

That depends on how much room you have and the size of the equipment to be operated there. No. 4 turnouts allow a compact yard but may not be adequate for long cars or locomotives. While you could use no. 4 easily in coal hopper marshaling yards larger turnouts would be necessary for a coach yard. I use no. 5 in some yards but no. 6 in my main yard. MicroEnigneering has a new type of turnout in their yard series designed to give more compact yards and yet accommodate larger equipment. John Armstrong’s book “Track Planning for Realistic Operation” is a great resource on this topic.