Fiorenza Cossotto - Don Carlo - O Don Fatale

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Gabba02

Gabba02

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 135
@nafedsem
@nafedsem 9 ай бұрын
Для мене ця співачка стала справжнім відкриттям! Розкішний тембр, яскрава палітра емоційних злетів , технічна досконалість! Щире захоплення цим виконанням надскладної арії❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤!
@neusbarrera6401
@neusbarrera6401 Жыл бұрын
The first time attended an opera performance I was blessed to see live two legends, amazing singers among the best of the XX century! It was in Barcelona 1970 Montserrat Caballé and Fiorenza Cossoto the best Norma and best Adalgisa I’ve ever seen! Thank you for all the unforgetable performances you played in Barcelona! 🌹🌹🌹🌹
@spiritname
@spiritname 10 ай бұрын
🤩🤩🤩 That's luck!
@LaraGiulia
@LaraGiulia 9 ай бұрын
Ciao, puoi dirmi di piú sulla signora Caballè. Com'era il timbro?
@marialuisavelona2032
@marialuisavelona2032 3 жыл бұрын
Finalmente si riescono a capire tutte le parole, scolpite come le voleva Toscanini, che luminosità di accenti, che musicalità, che equilibrio e gusto teatrale senza enfasi ed eccessi
@operaoaf
@operaoaf 16 жыл бұрын
Wow!!! What secure notes, creamy timbre and abundant colors.
@gennaroschisano1647
@gennaroschisano1647 Ай бұрын
Voci così non esistono più... Grandissima artista.. Magnifica anche in Adriana Lecruveur
@cenodus
@cenodus 16 жыл бұрын
Pain and fury! So difficult to achieve in this aria - Cossotto is Amazing!!
@LaraGiulia
@LaraGiulia 9 ай бұрын
Opera difficilissima, lei un artista meravigliosa ❤
@lukacs37
@lukacs37 2 жыл бұрын
What a voice!
@mirjamdevries9376
@mirjamdevries9376 Жыл бұрын
Magnifica e potente. Voce molto bella, limpida come il cristallo. 🌹💎
@noeldunsky
@noeldunsky 10 жыл бұрын
She is ONE with the music and with the role - A singer's dream...
@arnoldamaral7406
@arnoldamaral7406 4 жыл бұрын
Noel Ben Dunsky Or night mate my friend. Arnold Bourbon Amaral
@esterbruno8604
@esterbruno8604 4 жыл бұрын
Grandissima Fiorenza! 💖💖💗💗💗💕
@operasinger582
@operasinger582 3 жыл бұрын
Outstanding….
@cmmenah
@cmmenah 14 жыл бұрын
Astounding and moving. Great voice at all ends.
@MrElia2011j
@MrElia2011j 4 жыл бұрын
Es placer escucharla una mezzo maravillosa.
@veronicanavarro6128
@veronicanavarro6128 Ай бұрын
I migliori cantanti italiani. La piu bella musica.
@jacquesgnemmi170
@jacquesgnemmi170 Жыл бұрын
Voix d une rare pureté cristalline
@antequem
@antequem 6 жыл бұрын
Mezzo au timbre riche et charnu, incomparable Cossotto !
@marialuisavelona2032
@marialuisavelona2032 3 жыл бұрын
Che grande, splendida voce
@bridrice
@bridrice 14 жыл бұрын
Does anyone remember the very public spat Cossotto had with Scotto over a performance of Adriana l. at San Francisco opera. Dive fights! It's why we love opera.
@ininacsot
@ininacsot 2 жыл бұрын
C' est superbe, merci.
@owenboi66
@owenboi66 18 жыл бұрын
I disagree. She doesn't have to chew the scenery or pull the music out of shape to convey the character. She's just more subtle than a lot of mezzos. She trusts the music, and she has the vocal aparatus to deliver it. I think there's a lot of heart here, and a lot going on behind the eyes. "Still on the page"? All I can say is, I wish more singers would stick to what's on the page!
@kurtganzl4290
@kurtganzl4290 Жыл бұрын
And on top of all that, a singer who has the 'don fatale' in bucketloads!
@gregorylyons3512
@gregorylyons3512 11 жыл бұрын
So beautifully SUNG.
@albinadanilova9735
@albinadanilova9735 6 жыл бұрын
какое счастье слушать это!
@KassandraMezzo
@KassandraMezzo 6 жыл бұрын
Grande maestra!!!
@FranciscoFerrerGaliana1930
@FranciscoFerrerGaliana1930 8 жыл бұрын
Extraordinaria Voz.
@elisabetta611
@elisabetta611 17 жыл бұрын
Those were the days!
@cinziavidali411
@cinziavidali411 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent performance
@jamespetherbridge2151
@jamespetherbridge2151 2 жыл бұрын
Bravo!
@colettebusquet4091
@colettebusquet4091 5 ай бұрын
que dire ?! ...ecouter voir encore et encore la plus grande Eboli de notre epoque et peut être bien "forever'...❤🎶❤
@larukulupin
@larukulupin 13 жыл бұрын
Bravaaa! I also REALLY enjoy Shirley Verrett's...
@glenkdunbar6706
@glenkdunbar6706 Жыл бұрын
She is right up there w/Elena
@zinchel
@zinchel 8 жыл бұрын
superb! super mega job!!! +1000% comparing 2 other super singers!!! Excellent 'focus' position! the greatest job!
@janenotneed5602
@janenotneed5602 8 жыл бұрын
+zinchel Lip-synching !!
@alwaysnew189
@alwaysnew189 4 жыл бұрын
Happy 85 Frau Cossotto ! *
@mirellasanseviero472
@mirellasanseviero472 6 жыл бұрын
Yes! Those were the day!
@osvaldoscilingo5164
@osvaldoscilingo5164 5 жыл бұрын
La más grande Eboli de todos los tiempos...timbre único !
@bridrice
@bridrice 14 жыл бұрын
In the '80s at a performance of Adriana Lecouvreur, Cossotto upstaged Scotto in the big duet in the second act. At one point, where the Princess has a very dramatic solo line, scotto throws down her fan right in front of Cossotto with a loud thump. At the curtain call, they wouldn't go on stage together, and there was a big physical fight backstage, which one could hear from the audience. More like "The Women", I think.
@arnoldamaral7406
@arnoldamaral7406 4 жыл бұрын
Dan Bridston My moneys on Scotto 2 out of 3. LOL. Arnold Bourbon Amaral
@jimbuxton2187
@jimbuxton2187 2 жыл бұрын
@@arnoldamaral7406 lol ! She admitted she was very difficult and hard to get along within the beginning...
@Antonio-qm3bi
@Antonio-qm3bi 2 жыл бұрын
Acerba voluttà?
@genlyai5055
@genlyai5055 Жыл бұрын
Renata Vibrata was not only a CUNextTuesday in terms of destroying her own voice and that of others, she was a vile 'colleague' and megabitch. End of story, period.
@sfopera
@sfopera 3 жыл бұрын
Fabulous. Cossotto was one of the greats. However, I join those commentators who are puzzled by the definitions/criticisms posed here about mezzos. Cossotto was a classic Italian mezzo and was not a soprano. Many of Verdi's mezzos must ascend to the upper range at times. See Il Travatore on that point. And as for those who criticize Cossotto for lacking emotion, hmm.....
@СеклитаЛимариха
@СеклитаЛимариха 4 жыл бұрын
Люблю.
@art724
@art724 17 жыл бұрын
The only one of those mentioned that I saw in person was Bumbry. However, my favorite in the role is Verrett. Just a matter of personal taste.
@carlocolombo5799
@carlocolombo5799 4 жыл бұрын
And so what? Please, stick to the singer who is singing and do not always mention all the other mezzo of the world. If I act like You, I could mention Simionato, Stignani, Horne etc....
@commandert5
@commandert5 3 жыл бұрын
@@carlocolombo5799 Please do mention them. I always love comparing the various qualities of the greats. They all do different things, highlighting and comparing bits of which increases our overall appreciation, I think
@carlocolombo5799
@carlocolombo5799 3 жыл бұрын
@@commandert5 all the mezzosoprani (and even soprani like Callas or Tebaldi!) have sung "o don fatale". Most of them you have the chance to listen to in youtube and can appreciate their different talent. A way to quote them could be to point out either the beauty of voice and nobility of the musical line ( Ebe Stignani number 1 followed by Giulietta Simionato, Fiorenza Cossotto, Rita Gorr) or the impetuosity and fullness of the voice (Elena Nicolai number 1 followed by Fedora Barbieri, Grace Bumbry). That does not mean that others are not great but may be they are less complete for this role (Verrett , Obratzova, Zaijik, Cernei, Horne...). Have a good time.
@rubentenor82
@rubentenor82 4 жыл бұрын
Muy buena voz.
@antonioramires9559
@antonioramires9559 4 жыл бұрын
Great Cossoto!
@WeicheWotan
@WeicheWotan 10 жыл бұрын
After hearing this, I don't think I can listen to anyone else !
@WelshHomo87
@WelshHomo87 5 жыл бұрын
Callas and Troyanos
@patrickmarguerit8264
@patrickmarguerit8264 5 жыл бұрын
she sings too slowly... she doesn't play the role . Callas did it in 1962 even if her voice was declining
@Jeanne90275
@Jeanne90275 16 жыл бұрын
A fabulous performance! I"m assuming this was on Italian TV. Anyone know when it was filmed?
@Orfeus80
@Orfeus80 18 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much for posting this. I dislike the mezzo voice but Cossotto is one of the few who has captivated me since the first time I heard her. Her Eboli has no equals and it's such a joy to watch her sing it. She should have recorded it with Tebaldi and Bergonzi.
@egrosz
@egrosz 18 жыл бұрын
What a great dramatic opera! Viva Verdi! Viva Cossotto!I love Olga Borodina also!Nazdorove!
@Jeanne90275
@Jeanne90275 14 жыл бұрын
@bridrice No, but I remember the episode with Scotto and Pavarotti in San Francisco during 'Gioconda!' That one (unfortunately for Scotto) was caught on tape by the TV crew who were there to interview Pavarotti. Oh...the drama of it all:)
@arnoldamaral7406
@arnoldamaral7406 4 жыл бұрын
Jeanne90275 Scotto created her own problems,when she started to sing roles that were beyond her voice type.How she reigned supreme @ the Miserable Met was no mystery to James Levine.Don't ask don't tell 😊 QUID PRO QUO. I will sing Macbeth & Norma or I will recover from selective memory loss. Arnold Bourbon Amaral
@ransomcoates546
@ransomcoates546 4 жыл бұрын
'Light mezzo'??? You certainly never heard her practically demolish the theater with her sound.
@KingCorbinCosmos
@KingCorbinCosmos 4 жыл бұрын
When? Did she break glass?
@ransomcoates546
@ransomcoates546 4 жыл бұрын
@@KingCorbinCosmos I repeat, ‘You certainly never heard her.’
@jimbuxton2187
@jimbuxton2187 Жыл бұрын
@@ransomcoates546 ...I think he hears her bright sound and assumes her voice is light. Big voices can be bright or dark. Its how it projects in the theater. Recordings are always deceptive. When I heard Anna Moffo live at Avery Fischer...she had a more soprano sound with a silver ping I don't hear on her Recordings. I was amazed. I also heard Barbara Bonny live and she had a much more sombre sound than on her recordings. Not bright at all. Beautiful and lush with a Golden sheen....
@silvijaplese9802
@silvijaplese9802 10 ай бұрын
Big voices sound always squeaky on the recordings because the frequency is to high for microphones to catch it. Smaller voices sound a lot of the times better or bigger 😅
@roberthorn1838
@roberthorn1838 3 ай бұрын
She was magnificent in her prime,a huge exciting instrument. I saw her in Trovatore and as the best Amneris I ever saw.
@natasaantoniazzo7814
@natasaantoniazzo7814 Жыл бұрын
@ezayi
@ezayi 13 жыл бұрын
@MrDarknesslover Alguna vez la escuchaste en vivo? ESTOY SEGURO QUE NO. Y te atreves a opinar como si lo hubieras hecho. Obviamente has estado escuchando discos porque, por la brutalidad que dices, NUNCA escuchaste a esta señora EN PERSONA. La voz de Galina, oscura, muy bonita y no niego que me guste, si las comparas en vivo, lo cual NUNCA PODRÁS HACER, suena como pajarito al lado del vozarrón dramático que tenía Fiorenza Cosotto. Punto!
@ezayi
@ezayi 13 жыл бұрын
@MrDarknesslover Elina es una soprano coloratura al lado de Fiorenza.
@MrElia2011j
@MrElia2011j 5 жыл бұрын
MUY buena en su tesitura
@raigekimaru
@raigekimaru 13 жыл бұрын
@MrDarknesslover actually, I agree with you. the lower range is there, but there is a feeling of "wow this is low" when she gets to the high part of the aria, it's like her voice says "finally now comes the fun part". her top range opens up easily and the the top notes don't sound high for her at all. she sounds like she could sing the second half of the aria 20 times and still have it be easy. I think she's a lirico spinto soprano in disguise =D
@liedersanger1
@liedersanger1 5 жыл бұрын
Oh, geesh. I think she knew exactly what she was and what she could do. Verdi's mezzo roles were all high, and she had the notes. But its not a voice that could float "D'amor sulalii rosee."
@dramaturge231
@dramaturge231 3 ай бұрын
In what year did she record the audio?
@TheseusTex
@TheseusTex 12 жыл бұрын
@Randidan You give an amateur definition of "mezzo." True, they are not required to sustain the high soprano tessitura. But many of the best mezzos have just as good high notes. Tell Marilyn Horne, Trish McCaffrey or Dolora Zadjek that mezzos don't have good high notes! A mezzo is more defined by the color of the voice in the first octave above middle c. If it sounds meaty and comfortable and warm: mezzo. Period.
@xxsaruman82xx87
@xxsaruman82xx87 4 жыл бұрын
Marilyn Horne is masky and nasal.
@dragicaklomp9810
@dragicaklomp9810 4 жыл бұрын
@@xxsaruman82xx87 Agree, but IT seems that Cossotto also sings masky but without being nasal.
@xxsaruman82xx87
@xxsaruman82xx87 4 жыл бұрын
@@dragicaklomp9810 Later on. Early in her career she didn't.
@mariofilippeschi4855
@mariofilippeschi4855 2 жыл бұрын
Mezzo defined by color? Tell that to Rosa Ponselle
@mcmulj00
@mcmulj00 13 жыл бұрын
@cmmenah TRULY!!!!
@jennetal.984
@jennetal.984 2 жыл бұрын
Sublime and poignant
@Orfeus80
@Orfeus80 17 жыл бұрын
Yes I've tried them so I'm sure about my opinion. All extremely well sung and I'd run to see them singing the role today but compared to Cossotto, the first two lack the Italian bite so natural to Cossotto (and Simionato). I prefer Cossotto to Simionato on pure vocal terms, the former had a richer, more even, stronger voice.
@jimbuxton2187
@jimbuxton2187 2 жыл бұрын
Have you heard Brigitta Fassbender sing it? It's truly wonderful!
@Orfeus80
@Orfeus80 2 жыл бұрын
@@jimbuxton2187 I heard her sing a fabulous version in German. Brigitte is wonderful and her storytelling, especially in the German repertoire has no equal.
@jimbuxton2187
@jimbuxton2187 2 жыл бұрын
@@Orfeus80I know! I was floored by it!
@genlyai5055
@genlyai5055 Жыл бұрын
@@jimbuxton2187 It's completely non-Italianate vocal production. It is abominable in Verdi.
@mpiarosati
@mpiarosati 7 жыл бұрын
Lei e la Troyanos, a mio avviso, le piu' brave, anche la Bumbry!!!
@222mozart
@222mozart 17 жыл бұрын
excellent, indeed ! not to slow.
@operaoaf
@operaoaf 17 жыл бұрын
Cossotto is fabulous in the upper range of the voice. It is clear, powerful and steady. However, I do agree with the previous posters who feel that there is a lack of emotional force and drama. This is a disgraced and self-loathing princess lamenting fer fate and coming to a life changing decision. Perhaps she could deliver the pathos a little more expressively by making the suffering sound more visceral since this is Verdi after all.
@ininacsot
@ininacsot 7 жыл бұрын
en attendant c'est quand même très beau!!!
@carlocolombo5799
@carlocolombo5799 4 жыл бұрын
@@ininacsot : vous savez, ces américains, ils ont toujours quelque chose à critiquer, pour eux comme mezzo soprano il n'existe que la Horne (par ailleurs excellente, je ne veux pas dire) avec ses basses poitrinés.
@genlyai5055
@genlyai5055 Жыл бұрын
So you want her to wobble, emote, chew scenery, and sing worse. Cossotto is tremendously emotional and dramatic in addition to singing beautifully. Learn something about singing, opera, drama, and vocal production--if you even can.
@АркадийХаритонов-ъ5ц
@АркадийХаритонов-ъ5ц 3 ай бұрын
ближе к исполнению этой арии Биргит Нильссон. Трепетное исполнение где к героине испытываешь сочвуствие. Тут Эболи не монстр как у Образцовой. Семионато эту партию в целом исполняет похоже на Образцову но чуть тоньше.
@Kalaris2000
@Kalaris2000 6 жыл бұрын
a me lei nn è mai sembrata un mezzosoprano...ma un soprano drammatico!!!
@babbonatale9362
@babbonatale9362 5 жыл бұрын
Un soprano lirico... al massimo
@liusan4641
@liusan4641 3 жыл бұрын
Es soprano dramático. Compare ella,por ejemplo, con Gena Dimitrova o Rosa Poncel- y todo va ser clarísimo. Ni siquiera puro dramático.
@fulvioarborio9578
@fulvioarborio9578 3 жыл бұрын
Her diction is perfect and so are her high notes, her chest register sounds retained, don't know why, she might've thought it vulgar
@waterfordwinstons
@waterfordwinstons 17 жыл бұрын
Nice Very Nice....... but i Love the way Verrett does it better sory
@xavieralberto1176
@xavieralberto1176 5 жыл бұрын
And don’t forget Agnes Baltsa!
@arnoldamaral7406
@arnoldamaral7406 4 жыл бұрын
Robert Hiwat And Troyanos.What Hernandez could do with this aria gives to chills.Even if it's a mezzo aria.🎵🎶🎼💙🌏🌎🌍🌿🌹.. Arnold Bourbon Amaral
@operamusicfan
@operamusicfan 14 жыл бұрын
No, do tell :D
@bridrice
@bridrice 14 жыл бұрын
...drama on and off stage. It just doesn't get any better!
@emibemib6853
@emibemib6853 10 жыл бұрын
Grande Cossotto. Vocalità perfetta e chiara la dizione. Se ci fosse stata anche un pò più di passilnalità nell'interpretazione sarebbe stata memprabile e da manuale per insegnare a chi si predispone al debutto. Mirka
@carlocolombo5799
@carlocolombo5799 4 жыл бұрын
Emib: ok, ma come detto da chi ha postato si tratta di una ripresa in ...karakoe, se la ascolti in altre parti, vedrà quanta passione sa esprimere.
@УланУмиров-е5ф
@УланУмиров-е5ф 3 жыл бұрын
По моему Образцова, Бородина пели не хуже, мне кажется итальянки боялись что их перепели Советские певицы)
@sharonrenzulli9941
@sharonrenzulli9941 3 жыл бұрын
14 years ago- more like 40
@cantanteporsiempre
@cantanteporsiempre 13 жыл бұрын
@MrDarknesslover mezzosoprano
@cantanteporsiempre
@cantanteporsiempre 16 жыл бұрын
yes, that´s why is better be a high mezzo, vivaaaaaaaaa!!! lol
@ROMAYATENEA
@ROMAYATENEA 12 жыл бұрын
Dopo aver ascoltato gli accenti di Callas, questo risulta un po moscio. Comunque magari ci fossero cantanti come la Cossotto oggi.
@УланУмиров-е5ф
@УланУмиров-е5ф 3 жыл бұрын
Мне кажется , итальянкам драматизма не хватает, ну может я ошибаюсь, простите
@ezayi
@ezayi 13 жыл бұрын
@MrDarknesslover Oye... tienes que ir a revisarte los oídos!
@mariaflaminiacodronchitore3288
@mariaflaminiacodronchitore3288 6 жыл бұрын
No
@SiEtIn1
@SiEtIn1 12 жыл бұрын
es tu apreciación personal, no pasa nada, tienes una apreciacion personal errada ya ya esta, estas en tu derecho. si quieres tambien puedes opinar que la voz de sumi jo es mucho mas gorda y oscura que la de ghena dimitrova, nadie te lo puede impedir
@baroqueandbeyond
@baroqueandbeyond 17 жыл бұрын
Left me kind of cold. Cossotto killed as Azucena, but I can't abide with her Eboli. Maybe it's because she operates on one gear only. The very best essayers of this role know to channel the myriad emotions.
@paddymusic
@paddymusic 17 жыл бұрын
it'S very slow!
@sonqualnave
@sonqualnave 17 жыл бұрын
heheh cossotto is a great singer! that's sure! , but she is really not talented for lip-synching! hahahha....she doesnt even try to make it real... funny :-)
@savioalves1234
@savioalves1234 6 жыл бұрын
Anna Moffo is not great ider HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA But live they are perfect
@cantanteporsiempre
@cantanteporsiempre 16 жыл бұрын
woo Cosotto sounds more like a light mezzo here, more like a soprano. this is interesting
@MrDarknesslover
@MrDarknesslover 13 жыл бұрын
woa una soprano dramatica de verdad!
@MrDarknesslover
@MrDarknesslover 13 жыл бұрын
@ezayi por que en estos forum la personas son tan Bucefalas Y Balurdas! siempre tratando de ofender a los demás!.Opino que no existe ser más pobre e ignorante que aquel que cree que sus verdades son absolutas y se encarga de calumniar a quienes no pensamos igual. Pero lo más lamentable es cuando ese(a) gran poseedor(a) de lo absoluto siembra tan horrible semilla en mentes jóvenes. Eso, pienso, le convierte en un ser ignominios
@davidmuller9938
@davidmuller9938 6 жыл бұрын
She wasn't a mezzo at all. It's a soprano voice in weight, color, low-range, mid-range, high range, it's a soprano I wouldn't call her a Falcon either, just a soprano (spinto maybe) who has good low register.
@draganvidic2039
@draganvidic2039 5 жыл бұрын
Dávid Müller A soprano ”in weight”? There is no difference in weight between a mezzo or a soprano. I agree though that her timbre is fairly soprano sounding even if there are true sopranos with darker timbre than this.
@eboli7146
@eboli7146 5 жыл бұрын
She is a Verdi mezzo. This is a devilishly hard aria and she lightens up her lower registers a bit to even it out, this aria has very high notes for a mezzo and in some sections the tessitura is high. If you weight it too much down below it can sound choppy and it can become hard to sustain the notes in the upper passaggio and arrive successfully at the B and Bb. You will notice also her B/Bb are a bit thin, a dramatic soprano should have much richer sounds at this range. I am the same voice type, I've watched everything I can find of her and can relate to the way she handles certain arias, for sure she is a mezzo !
@arnoldamaral7406
@arnoldamaral7406 4 жыл бұрын
Eboli And not a very good one.Her chest voice is very limited if at all.Never really liked her in Verdian demanding roles.Like Balsta or even Troyanos.True Russian MEZZO Ostrozava & Dolora Zlagick were much better.Of course Dominquez & Simanato were in a league of their own.Please disregard my spelling of the last 2 great divas. Arnold Bourbon Amaral
@davidmuller9938
@davidmuller9938 4 жыл бұрын
@@arnoldamaral7406 Obraztsova, Zajick, Dominguez, Simionato anyway I agree with u
@davidmuller9938
@davidmuller9938 4 жыл бұрын
@@eboli7146 She alwayd had very light high notes, even when she ssng Ulrica or Azucena. Never had a dark timbre, especially in the middle register which is totally mess in Verdi mezzo roles. she was a good actress though. she sang also Lady Macbeth and she sang the aria from the early version: "Trionfai" which was written for a coloratura soprano, and she sounds totally soprano in this, as she did in all of her roles.
@giuliebernie
@giuliebernie 12 жыл бұрын
don't like her acting at all. splendid voice
@ЕленаВяткина-ь6у
@ЕленаВяткина-ь6у Жыл бұрын
Она никакая не меццо! Не впечатлила нисколько!
@robertomancini4486
@robertomancini4486 11 жыл бұрын
OTTIMA TECNICA, MA E' CHIARAMENTE UN SOPRANO!!
@marielamagenta6231
@marielamagenta6231 5 жыл бұрын
Cosotto soprano?????? Por favor. Veanla en Il trovatore o Aida. Impecable Mezzo, de las mejores si no la mejor.
@aledevoli6947
@aledevoli6947 5 жыл бұрын
Tutti esperti...
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