FIRE EMBLEM 14: Fates Retrospective - ShaneBrained

[@hitothelivingdrawing1035]

The funniest part about fates to me is that In awakening there was a story reason for the children to be immediately aged, and that actually made for some great story telling in my book, but in fates you just get the same two sentences about the poor children being yeeted into the baby dimension where they are forcefully aged up without consent and that’s it.

[@rosema7909]

It’s a video game. Just play

[@Chelaxim]

​@@rosema7909 NPC behavior

[@ethanhinton4549]

If Awakening was Trunks, then Fates was a reverse Hyperbolic Time Chamber

[@obiwancannoli1920]

Yeah I really enjoyed how they handled Awakenimg child units. You see how they deal with their parents' death. With someone like Cynthia or Lucina, they choose to spend as much time as possible with their parents when they go back, but with Gerome, he actively tries not to bond with his parents in order not to experience the grief of losing them again (his mask is stupid tho).

[@sonickhable]

You know the phrase "if your friends jumped off a bridge, would you?" I don't think the Fates writers understood that message

[@randallcoleman4474]

They replied “w- would you not?”

[@freetoplayking7362]

I mean, if they all did, there's probably a really good reason why, like a speeding van with no way to get away from it, or the bridge is collapsing and the only way to survive is to jump, or there's an awakening + fates paired up, 100% astra critting S-ranked supported max leveled Ryoma out for blood

[@bificommander7472]

"Which is more likely, all my friends, all level headed and many afraid of heights, all went crazy at the same time... or the bridge is on fire? 'Several people escaped their vehicles and jumped off the bridge. Those that remained...' Is anything good about to happen to those people?"

[@Caminopoi66]

I didn’t understand… until I did 😅

[@keithgawain3614]

Honestly, I feel as though if in Conquest, Takumi was completely in control of his own actions and was just going down a spiral of stress and emotions from failure and his sibling's betrayal instead of being possessed, he would have been a much more interesting character.

[@ajh22895]

Honestly, that's my headcanon. Because the ghost of Takumi showing up and revealing he was a good guy all along just doesn't really work for me.

[@avej99]

@@ajh22895 plus it would add to the consequences of choosing one side over other

[@daveijbema2213]

How I see it is as follows: Takumi was kind of in control of his actions, up until his final humiliation at the great wall. Already hearing Anankos' voice of corruption, he did not give in to it. He wanted revenge by his own hand to prove his strength to Hoshido. But when he was defeated again, giving Nohr a free match to his home, he decided he needed Anankos' strenght in order to avenge his country. He was in control, until he was completely hopeless. Him thanking Corrin at the end is him realising what entity he allowed to control him, and finally being rid of it

[@midnight-fox7456]

@@daveijbema2213 Personally that's how I always interpreted it as well. Takumi does not appear fully possessed, up until his jump from the great wall and following death. While Anankos's voice haunts him for most of the path, pushing him more and more towards obsession and insanity, he still seems to be in control.

[@Caddance]

So Lyon?

[@kosmosshift2577]

Corrin is trying to play 4D chess in two of the routes while everyone is just trying to play checkers.

[@clashmanthethird]

Holy shit, if QAnon existed in the Fates universe they'd just be completely correct. "Guys, Corrin isn't evil, he's only conquering Hoshido to expose the satanic pedophile controlling Nohr. Trust the plan, FEAnon never lies to us"

[@azure8696]

@@clashmanthethird damn🤣

[@XaviMD3KB]

@@clashmanthethird LMAO

[@zaneheaston8254]

Is 4D chess the one that implements time travel or the one that implements parallel universes?

[@zaidalvaro9474]

instablaster

[@XIIIHearts]

So something that you forgot to mention in the story analysis is the reason for why Nohr and Hoshido are at war. Nohr keeps attacking others and seizing lands because theirs is bad for growing food, but you only learn about that if you play Birthright. This is not revealed in the other two, making it seem that Nohr was only attacking Hoshido just to be dicks.

[@rockcandyplanet]

Not to mention it was mentioned only once in like a throw away line (if I remember correctly)

[@cameronmcphee8224]

Wait really? I thought that was just what the fans wanted because it was mentioned that Hoshido had way more resources in a throw away line.

[@HollowGolem]

@@cameronmcphee8224 I wouldn't be surprised if it were intentional, to make Nohr parallel to Southern Thracia, which had a similar anti-villainous role.

[@CosmicToad5000]

Yeah, it’s a real shame that they didn’t push it further and make so Hoshido weren’t so undeniably the good guys by having them refuse to offer abhor help, instead keeping their bountiful resources to themselves whilst their neighbours suffered. In this way I think a 3rd nation (that isn’t in a seperate dimension devoid of any background info) would’ve helped put the two nations into perspective. try to do this with Izumi but it’s too minor of a political power in Fates that it doesn’t really tell us anything new. Instead we just see Nohr attacking this nations that seemingly can do no wrong.

[@nahte123456]

@@cameronmcphee8224 in Birthright Silas outright tells Ryoma that most Norh soldiers are only fighting because they are literally starving to death, only a small amount of soldiers would fight otherwise. Ryoma then says he never knew and wants to help after the war. This is never mentioned anywhere else despite literally being the single most important plot point in Fates.

[@Acecard-jl2py]

"And once I reported on social media that I had finished playing all of the Fates games, I got more messages praising me like I was some kind of martyr for having the bravery to play through a ****ing videogame." -ShaneBrained

[@davekorus]

TBH, playing 2 routes each for all 3 Fates games cinsecutively is pretty impressive.

[@INFERN0FIRE]

@@davekorus I almost did that (playing through the games on Hard and then on Lunatic), but stopped 3/4 through my Lunatic Revelations playthrough. I actually think Revelations greatest sin is its units balance. Seeing units that were great in other routes suddenly join you way underleveled and/or underpowered broke me. Training them up is boring, but only using the best units is also boring on repeat playthroughs.

[@Vatiaure]

@@INFERN0FIRE Yeah, i am still sad how they did Effie and Silas dirty, being two of my favorite units in fates

[@Sparty450]

@@Vatiaure Silas is actually really good in Rev, his only real flaw is Xander exists and has basically the same stats on top of Siegfried and Dragon Vein access

[@c.carnival]

Some "fans" can be so overdramatic and entitled that it's understandable when people say that the fanbase is what turns them off of something.

[@joshbittner]

“I really like explorable hub worlds” Oh boy, that’s gonna be put to the test in 3 Houses lol

[@atotalfiasco4213]

As much as I rag on Fates' story and some of the characterization, it still is really fascinating to talk about and to pick apart. And at the end of the day, there is still some really good stuff to be found in these games and it'll always hold a special nostalgic place in my heart as a nerdy 16 year old who watched the teaser trailer obsessively on her 3DS

[@OkMakuTree]

Fates was my first ever Fire Emblem game, so it holds a special place in my heart. I’m excited to hear your thoughts on the three games!

[@danielcook7975]

Blazing sword was the first I saw but three houses is the first one I played. Fates is good sure it is not perfect but no game is perfect we just have to accept the faults and the goods of it otherwise what is the point of being a fire emblem fan. I want Fates and I hope one day it comes to switch

[@Practitioner_of_Diogenes]

Same, man. Though, Shadow of Valentia is my favorite.

[@menhirmike]

(Groans of increasing discomfort)

[@icarus7198]

(Garons of increasing discomfort)

[@CGFillertext]

Before I knew that this was supposed to be a *Plot Important Thing*(TM) I just thought Garon was nutting to Azura which made for a very uncomfortable experience on my first playthrough

[@cameronmcphee8224]

@@CGFillertext I mean she’s his stepdaughter, so it fits the themes 😛

[@TheMaestroMizerous]

@@CGFillertext GaRoN nUt TiMe!

[@mikethepokemaster2012]

Can't lie Azura black dress dancing was seducing

[@cianodwyer5144]

I feel like you can justify the Nohr choice in that it’s the family Corrin was raised with. Regardless of Garons clear murderous intent they might not want to fight the siblings they have come to know.

[@drasconboy6349]

But that's not the reason Corrin gives them, He states almost the exact same thing as in Birthright, which is to stop the war ...which is stupid

[@sneakretster]

Yes let's justify the choice that involves Corrin not only actively deciding to work for their murderous father who has no mercy for Hoshido and is the obviously more disastrous option, but also inevitably crush most of Hoshido just so that he could sit on a particular throne to expose that he was a slime monster the whole time. Great choice.

[@jackbharucha1475]

@@sneakretster people make terrible decisions

[@benandrew21]

​@@sneakretster Yeah the conquest route should've been Corrin and crew half-assing the invasion while they work to depose Garon. Even if he wasn't a literal monster, he was a monstrous, cruel and evil king that thought nothing of killing his own children for disobedience. That guy needed to go irrespective of what bloody chair he wound up sitting on

[@Adam-lw6es]

It should’ve been either “I want carnage” route, or Maybe I can get close to the king to assassinate him if I go back to Nohr (which is immediately assumed by Garon and Iago as soon as he comes back!)

[@JoseSanchez-yp5dp]

A problem I’ve always had with the Fates game is how little the family cares about Azura she dies in two paths and the family has no reaction to her death which is especially weird in Birthright where she grew up alongside them. She literally dies in front of them and at the end they build a statue for Mikoto a character that does nothing and is irrelevant outside the prologue. Which I believe is a result on the avatar worship that IS has been heading toward with each new Avatar

[@drasconboy6349]

I mean, the statue makes sense from a worldbuilding standpoint Most Hoshidans knew and loved Mikoto, Azura was relatively unknown by the people, why would they build one of her

[@izzy1356]

I dunno man... Even if she wasn't queen, Mikoto *did* protect the people of Hoshido AND Nohr with her magic barrier. Love Azura but all she's done in Hoshido is sing. By herself. (That being said though I *do* agree the lack of love the Hoshidan siblings have for her compared to Corrin sucks.)

[@AmonsRealm]

@@Good100 story wise yeah but gameplay wise he was a beast

[@piousthepious]

spoilers my dude

[@RasenRendanX]

@@piousthepious why are you reading comments

[@Practitioner_of_Diogenes]

If there's one thing I hate about Fates, is how much of those 500 pages for each route was cut. Like, seriously, the fact that the continent goes on being *nameless* should tell you just how much of those 1000 pages were actually cut. Edit: I missed Shane mentioning "Revelations" when talking about the writing of the script, so it's not 1000 pages, but ~1500 pages.

[@cameronmcphee8224]

Source?

[@goner1179]

@@cameronmcphee8224the source is The video you're watching. The writer originally had a very short script but as he grew emotionally attached to the game , characters and story ( as well as his daughter being a fan ) he ended up writing scripts of at least 500 pages for both stories respectively. Which of course is around a thousand when added up

[@Practitioner_of_Diogenes]

@@Good100 Thing is, that canyon isn't all the way across, it stops in the north. As for the mountains... I here by declare Italy its own continent, same with anything east and west of the Rockys.

[@jamestran1634]

@@Practitioner_of_Diogenes is there a source where we can find the entire script? Only issue I had with fates was the writing, knowing that it could have had an amazing story bums me out.

[@Practitioner_of_Diogenes]

@@jamestran1634 Sadly, we don't have accessibly to the entire script, otherwise we'd actually be saying whatever the continent that Fates takes place on. There is a manga that somewhat expands the story of Fates and is told from Leo's PoV. It starts before the prologue of Fates, where Corrin is sleeping about future events and follows Revelation's story. The Corrin is female, also.

[@ungulatemanalpha]

IS Dev #1: Hey, you know how Awakening started off with the protagonist having a dream of a later event to foreshadow elements of the story and set up their relationship with the characters and plot? IS Dev #2: Yeah? IS Dev #1: What if we do that again, but the later event takes place an hour in and has no effect on the characters' actions or motivations? IS Dev #2: You're a genius.

[@AshXXMayftw]

Here's my view on Fates: A fantastic game from a gameplay perspective that fell victim to the devs wanting to try something bigger and bolder. I can't say I hate these games because I don't. They're still amazingly fun to play through and I do enjoy some of the characters. But it does have some major flaws that hold it back.

[@heartfulcry]

i’m so glad that someone else acknowledges how ridiculously brilliant the gameplay of fates is. basically the only reason i replay it about once a year tbh.

[@mihaimercenarul7467]

Only conquest mainly

[@ragingstorm_]

@@mihaimercenarul7467well sorta. but all games have the same reclassing system that’s so fun

[@JesseColton]

Wow, every plot twist in this game is "______ takes the killing blow in place of ______ and dies tragically."

[@DavidHosey1]

Kinda cool how that twist only happens once in Three Houses, and it’s for someone who’s purposefully dying to get through to someone. Kinda shows how the writing for it is a huge improvement, finally getting a Fire Emblem that stands up there with the other fantasy genre greats

[@JesseColton]

@@DavidHosey1 I'm sure you're right but I have tried on three different occasions to play Three Houses and it just bores me to tears. It's just this giant uninteresting mish mash of anime characters doing their slice of life at magic school and barely any gameplay

[@DavidHosey1]

@@JesseColton I can understand how you feel for the beginning being slow (even tho it’s definitely not nearly as bad as many other Fire Emblem games), so I guess I can’t blame you for not trying to get through your less interesting hours for the top tier stuff later. But it’s definitely not anything like a collection of “anime” characters doing their slice of life things. The story writing is genuinely amazing when it’s all taken into account, and the characters are some of the main reasons for that. Top tier characters in a top tier story, where even the worst ones in the game are still well written and likable people who feel human and develop too. Be as bored as you feel man, but the overall plot and characters are way far from anything as boringly cliche as you make it sound lmao

[@JesseColton]

@@DavidHosey1 You have to spend several calendar weeks just improving your students skills with certain weapons before you can even take them on a mission and use any of them in battle. It's like the game was written backwards from the conclusion of "What if you were a teacher with a harem of anime girl students you could customize?"

[@DavidHosey1]

@@JesseColton well again the overall game is nothing like something with “a harem of anime girl students” or anything like that, as not only is that the wrong tone/facts for the game but that would be just plain weird imo. Bu even besides that, that’s not really the case. You can skip to the missions of each month instantaneously whenever you want to, and the game doesn’t force you to spend a second doing the monastery things you don’t want to do outside of the tutorial. It’s encouraged, especially for the story, but never close to being required, especially not on any difficulty outside of maddening

[@sidharthbommineni7780]

Fates was fun. Great game, incredible concept, botched execution

[@Princeomishore]

Yup agree. Thought the story ideas where really interesting. Imo three houses was what I wanted out of fates with the three different paths and none of them being evil. I really liked the idea of valla and corrin being the king's son. Even of ot wasn't done well.

[@joegreen3802]

Yeah. Pretty much hits the nail on the head there. I have fun playing Fates, but I really could care less of the game's story. Kind of like Dragon Ball GT. Great ideas, a few good moments, but overall, poor execution.

[@lucinae8512]

I knew a similar thing would happen with Three Houses branching paths. The lords are great in their own ways, but extremists want you to be in the "Edelgard did nothing wrong" or "Edelgard did everything wrong" camp because of how the game presents her. Really her choices are similar to Corrin: ignorant planning or delusional righteousness.

[@sidharthbommineni7780]

@@lucinae8512 which is a shame considering how they added tangible consequences for killing named characters in other routes. Thank god there is no golden save all route but you have to live with the deaths you caused in each route

[@CursedCatTruffa]

This is the perfect way to explain this games and why I enjoy them despite the glaring flaws

[@El_Surge]

I hope this video is known throughout the entire fire emblem fanbase. Shane really has such a good approach and open mind and inoffensive opinions and statements and everyone should learn from this, especially when it comes to this game

[@El_Surge]

@Voltage, dragon guy people say way too much about games they haven't played

[@CosmicToad5000]

Yeah, even though I’m still part of the “Conquest good, Birthright meh & Revs bad” mindset I can appreciate the ways in which Shane was able to put everything into perspective. The games are built in such a way that someone who likes Conquest a lot probably won’t like Birthright & vice versa because they were designed from two, polar opposite FE design philosophies. That doesn’t mean Conquest > Birthright but more Conquest > Birthright if you prefer harder, linear & more restrictive FE games and Birthright> Conquest if you prefer open, almost sandbox like rpgs at the expense of difficulty. I do think revelations failed pretty badly at being the middle ground, as like Shane said it shares way more with Birthright’s design that it does with conquest, so it just feels like “Birthright, but they made it a little more complicated”.

[@Profecy02]

1:19:00 This was always my take. I initially picked up Conquest thinking I'd be the bad guy in it. I was, but Corrin never let me have it.

[@genesisno1918]

What I love in a fire emblem game is replayability. Fates was the second game in the series that I played and I can say for sure it has the best combat. The story I only ever played sometimes I mostly ignored since I wanted to see all character interactions. The game was always fun and thats what a game should be for a person, a fun one.

[@TheDaphinator]

Honestly, I would love to read the original full length version of Fates written up by Shin Kibayashi. If he developed that much love for the characters and the story he wrote, it must have a lot of heart in it. The scripts might not be much better than the final product, yet at least they would be told in full and perhaps his passion in the writing would be able to save the story.

[@tahamohammad8842]

From what we already know, there are some interesting differences. Some chapters like 15 birthright seem to have a different scenario compared to the final release(based on how this chapter has a completely different unused scenario in the code). The other major difference that we know of is characterization between nohr and hoshido, for one thing some characters like Camilla have different behaviors in the kibayashi cut compared to the final release. The final really interesting change is a lack of hinoka, she simply wasn’t in the manga, which explains why she kinda just exists in the final game and doesn’t contribute much to the actual story. I’m pretty sure she was mainly written to give nohr and hoshido and equal amount of royals

[@Mekkkah]

Time to comment on a video about Fates, an entry of the series that I am not a big fan of! I think overall the review is fair and I agree with most (but not every) conclusion. Fates gameplay has a lot of depth, and in many ways it improves on Awakening, most notably with the split in the Pair Up system and the nerf to level grinding. The amount of different potential character builds, pairings, skill setups and weapons is simply staggering, especially in Revelation. It is probably the best team building simulator out there, especially with the personal skill system in there to still distinguish individual characters. Personally, I prefer Fire Emblem units to be a bit more linair. I find it a little hard to put into wording exactly why that is, but the phrase that comes closest is I enjoy playing more than I enjoy planning and building and setting up things. I like it when a character is built a certain way and it's my job to make them work (or not). If the way their skills and such are set up, then using them is a bit of an extra challenge, and I'm ok with that. Not having to plan all these things out in advance smoothens the gameplay for me, letting me get from chapter to chapter quickly. For the same reason I don't really care for My Castle. I appreciate the extra depth it gives but I would prefer a menu simply because it lets me do the things I want to do faster, and the less time I spend outside of the grid-based gameplay I love the better. If I want to forge a Bronze Bow, I need to check if I have enough copies, buy more if I need them, figure out what gems I need, collect the gems to forge them (possibly using the Online features that I loathe for reasons you described), and then forge the thing. Compared to Path of Radiance forging where it's just "buy a forged weapon and customize it the way I want it" that's petty tedious. Another minor gripe I have with My Castle is that it splits battle preparations in two (Castle and actual in-battle), and if you set up your formation and everything in-battle just right but forgot about one forge, or food, or weapon buy, you have to go back to My Castle. And then when you get back to Battle Preps, all your hard work there is undone. But I will say that Fates has a lot of other Qualify of Life things in battle preps that make up for this, such as its huge amount of transparency in stat bonuses. One thing I do heavily disagree with is your assessment of the Birthright and Revelation gameplay. Having gone through both, I really did not enjoy the vast majority of the maps. I don't even mind the fact that they're easy, I just think they weren't enjoyable. Revelation has a couple of stinkers that people always mention, but I would've been fine if the rest of them were maps on par with say, FE1 or FE3. In the case of Birthright they were more tedious, with almost no interesting side objectives, enemies that barely or don't move unless provoked, no skills, etc. In Revelation they are often lengthened through what people often refer to as "gimmicks" - basically just map mechanics that aren't interesting enough by themselves to salvage an otherwise unengaging map. My Rev playthrough was a while ago but iirc the enemy numbers/layout just didn't make me want to do anything other than spam royals. This comes back to the part where the sheer amount of different weapons, triangles and advantages can be a bit too overwhelming to even have the energy to strategize around, and this can be a problem in Conquest as well with the large amount of enemy skills in play. There is only so much mental math one can do, especially if you're also trying to commentate the gameplay like I often am. I will say I absolutely agree that the final battle and the replicate map are really enjoyable, but I'm pretty sure those are the only maps that I could actually say I enjoyed playing in Rev. My experience on BR and Rev is also soured a bit by the fact that the Fates developers very blatantly said "we couldn't reuse any of the scenario" and "we didn't recycle much of anything" in a pre-release interview. There are several maps and scenarios that were reused in two or even all three games. I _get it_ because it's a smart use of resources and it's technically only one entry in the series, but that is very misleading to say. And a lot of the reused maps don't change significantly or in an interesting way. As a wrap-up I will say I don´t begrudge anyone who does enjoy any of the Fates games, or features, or its story, or its characters. It's just that my opinion matches the general popular perception of these games even though I made a faithful attempt to enjoy all three of them, and I only came out really enjoying the gameplay of one. I do see the appeal. 2 hour video 2 hour comment enjoy

[@TheRedScizor]

I agree with the map design on Birthright and Rev. The maps are just a slog to play through and in Rev especially I just end up throwing Ryoma and Xander at eveything to make it end faster making all the cool units I'd trained pointless. The unit balancing in this game feels very baffling considering the "toybox" nature people seem to point out. It seems pretty conflicting that you have all these units to build how you want yet some of them are awful and others are broken from the moment they join. Awakening did a much better job at making units reletively similar in power (except Robin and Frederick) whereas Fates is this massive mixed bag of power levels. I guess Fates just feels like a ton of conflicting game design choices trying to coexist in one game and the results are about what you'd expect.

[@tychodubbeling5522]

Lineair unit progression makes it easier for the devs to design interresting maps around and fits better with unit unique content like unit unique classes/class models, personal weapons and unit unique skills. I would love to see a game where almost every player unit has an unique classe to differentiate them from the rest.

[@GamesBrained]

I like that we can disagree entirely but acknowledge each other's tastes as valid. I can definitely understand where you're coming from, but many of the things you listed as not liking are right up my alley. I think this video actually understates how much I liked the My Castle system, I spent so much unnecessary time in there, but at the same time I do see the tedium it could bring to a gamer looking for more immediacy. It's the same thing with building Fates characters, in order to get the most out of them requires a lot of outside planning, which definitely doesn't appeal to some people, especially since tackling the higher difficulties would take so much extra work not even within the confines of the game. Compared to tackling something like FE10 at a higher difficulty, basically just units with growth percentages and a decent handfull of skills that are easy to keep track just in your head, Fates is super slow as a play experience by comparison. Not to say you're a strict LTC player, I know people confuse you for that a lot, but I never had a problem with BR or Rev maps, but then again I don't often try for efficiency, and a little tedium rarely phases me. I actually find enjoyment playing non-efficiently, for example, going out of my way to break every piece of ice on the snow map was weirdly satisfying. The Rev map gimmicks didn't bother me for the most part (I do have my gripes for some tho), for example, my hard mode run of Rev where I specifically made almost everyone a flyer was really enjoyable in Valla, as I got to sail all around the maps and try a new approach to their terrain. Suddenly it became about me using the wacky terrain against my foes who were stuck on it, and I had a lot of fun. Although I don't think the multiple weapon triangles were that hard to manage, especially once I got some experience with the game, I do think that Conquest hard late-game as well as Conquest-lunatic everything is where it gets overwhelming, at least for me. In that intense of difficulty, I definitely preferred the challenge of Thracia 776, which was just as intense but with far less factors to all keep in your head. Sorry it took me so long to get back to you, and thanks for sharing your thoughts as always Mekkah.

[@RenxyQuad]

Can't wait for your thoughts on echoes! It's going to be fun when this retrospective is fully complete!

[@jaredkhan8743]

Ik ppl hate fates, but damn after playing through so many fe games, conquest is still my favorite haha. I just love their gameplay despite all its flaws 😄

[@onewingedren2228]

Based

[@grass324]

Based

[@mihaimercenarul7467]

​@@onewingedren2228cringe

[@mihaimercenarul7467]

​@@grass324gross

[@mihaimercenarul7467]

That's because you like trash and love fates cuz you lack a brain just like The writers

[@teaghanmoreno8724]

Few things better bring a smile to my face than this game's amazing OST

[@Zane_tube17]

Buzz look an alien!!!

[@mihaimercenarul7467]

The soundtrack îs incredibly mediocre

[@At0m1cpickle]

I'm really glad that you opted to talk so heavily about the gameplay systems Fates has to offer specifically rather than bunkering down on a specific route. I think one often heavily under appreciated element of the game is how good its overarching core gameplay is with its incredible levels of depth. I think a lot of people are really dismissive of the gameplay outside of Conquest, which while I do wish they utilized the game's systems more at least on lunatic, still offer an unprecedented level of options in how you can approach them as well as interesting decision making on a map by-map basis. I often say to people that Paralogue 2 (Kana's map), if done earlier into the game, is one of the most under appreciated maps in the entire series. At it's core, it's essentially just a rout map on a flat field, but at the same time, it's a phenomenal demonstration of Fates' mechanics at their best, with the dragon veins dramatically changing how you play the map and the diversity in enemy types displaying how effective the merged weapon triangle is. One minor nitpick I do want to address however is the suggestion that lategame Conquest is unfair. I think you can make a quite good argument that it is overturned, but I think there's a big difference between that and unfair, and one of the biggest standouts to me about Fates gameplay is that it's essentially never unfair, particularly to blind players. Looking at Conquest in particular, while some of its challenges can be quite stacked against the player, they're all things that a blind player can understand and see coming without any external guides, hints, or resources. Some of the other notoriously difficult Fire Emblem games, such The Binding Blade on hard mode, New Mystery Lunatic/Reverse Lunatic, and Thracia 776, have numerous design choices that gives them a reasonable chance of screwing over a blind player who doesn't reset (ESPECIALLY Ambush Spawns) entirely, which, in a franchise where one mistake can be incredibly punishing, is a serious design flaw, as it can lead to significant detriment to the player for something they had virtually no control over if playing blind. Fates just outright doesn't have that outside of extreme corner cases (like some map-specific mechanics not being super clearcut through exactly how they work, even though they do a good job giving a general idea.) and I really appreciate that the devs understood the value of making a game "fair" in that regard so well, despite ambush reinforcements being an on and off thing in the franchise. I know this is already a monster of a comment, but one more thing I wanna mention. While I would wholeheartedly agree that Fates overall has the sloppiest writing of any Fire Emblem game, I'm not necessarily comfortable saying it has the worst, since I think it does still have some substantial choices of value that I can't think of anything in most FE games that matches it to me. For one, despite them often being dismissed as whiny or outright stupid, I really appreciate the approach the writers went for on Corrin. While at the surface, they're just simply the standard "hero" character but more naive and sympathetic, I think that's undercutting things a bit. As somebody incredibly sheltered whose worldview was immediately rocked by the narrative of the game, I appreciate actually how poorly they take a lot of the events of the game, and we actually see their severe self-esteem issues come out at multiple points, to the extent of spiraling into utter self-loathing at points in Conquest. The two base routes are, at their core, not about the conflict between the countries, but instead about Corrin's struggles against their own doubts, and I don't think that's inherently a bad thing.Things like the "filler" Zola arc also serve to further their character by seemingly giving them an initial success, only for it to come crashing down on their head and cause them to question their worldview (Something that also occurs in Conquest with the initial successes in the Ice Tribe and Notre Sagesse leading up into the Cheve massacre). While don't get me wrong, Fates absolutely does a lot of things wrong in terms of its narrative, we also don't really see this sort of emotional depth in a FE (or Video Game in general) protagonist very often, where if anything they tend to have a static climb in one direction for their character rather than this tightrope, or just never have their ideals and values challenged much at all (and there's numerous other instances of this sorta thing with Corrin I could talk about for a long time, and have in the past). This is sorta problematized further by the utter rejection of emotionally fragile protagonists in countless fandoms online. I just think there are too many valuable things like this for me to regard it as utterlyunderexplored In conclusion: I kinda like this game.

[@joaocisne556]

waint for 3 houses, 4 campaings normal and one dlc campaign

[@thatoneblackdude3333]

God I hope is drop the multi route structure while I like 3 houses fe are at there best when it's just one focused story

[@Zedempremier]

To be fair 3h's routes are way closer than Fates'. Fates really is 3 different games, whereas 3H is one game split up four ways. I do belive Shane doesn't need to play each twice to get them. Then again if he ends up doing it anyway, more power to him.

[@pumkin1241]

@@Zedempremier At least there's a handy dialogue resource created by fans. You can easily look up any chapter script or route specific Monestary dialogue. Playing through 3Houses 8 times can lead to burn out easily.

[@cameronmcphee8224]

There is no way he needs to play every route multiple times when they’re all basically the same

[@thatoneblackdude3333]

@@cameronmcphee8224 they are the same up till the timeskip where they start to deviate cf especially so he does technically have the play the game 4 times to experience it

[@valeriedure2341]

god the Shadows of Valentia music at the end just brought back so many memories, have fun with it 💕

[@SmashBros2009]

Fates is flawed, but nonetheless still fun. Heck, I'm still playing it!!

[@Tit0Matic]

Easily the best map designs in the series. I love the battle on the segmented rooftops

[@miacasual1263]

Thank you for spending as much time as you did on these games. I absolutely love these games, learning how to play this game for the first time was an unforgettable experience and I’ll forever be thankful to Fates for that

[@JEANS__]

this man played fe14 6 times. deserves a medal

[@Hesketh32]

Easiest FE game to replay. I dont think Ive ever owned a game and had the urge to replay it immediately and while yes, many flaws whatevs, one of its strong points will always be the replayability

[@Sidnv]

I think I'd be happy to play Conquest multiple times. Skip all the garbage story and the gameplay is really solid and super enjoyable. It feels like one of the fairest fire emblems on harder difficulty settings, though you do have to constantly check skills. Birthright and Revelation are boring though.

[@lagspike7763]

I mean I've played Conquest itself like 6 times. That game on lunatic just ruins you for everything else

[@VioletLunaChan]

I played it for too many times I'd like to admit

[@Hesketh32]

Funny how even Shane mentions people like you which just 🙄

[@jacktwelve1710]

2 hours this going to be fun Edit: I just finished this video and agree this game has the best gameplay systems and mechanics in franchise. Also if you loved the castle in fates your definitely going to adore 3 houses

[@johanandersson8252]

I hope that i don’t mess this up.

[@jacktwelve1710]

@@johanandersson8252 okay ?

[@RenxyQuad]

I wonder if he's going to beat three houses 2 times? That's going to a long playthrough

[@jacktwelve1710]

@@RenxyQuad he’ll probably do 8 play throughs 2 per route and mess around with the class system to see all the possibilities

[@troykv96]

It's so nice that Echoes is short compared with the other recent games, because Three Houses will probably need it's own feature length video.

[@ziggymcdougal]

Even though Conquest is my favorite route, and probably my second favorite FE right up there with thracia and FE12, I actually do enjoy all 3 routes of fates. I think it's really cool that the game is varied enough to where you can have more nuanced takes like this, even if that opportunity is squandered by all the toxic conversation surrounding the game. Conquest in particular I think is a game that massively benefits from hindsight, much like Thracia. Even for veteran players there's so much of the experience that can just become overhead because the systems are unfamiliar, which is what leads people to getting frustrated with the game. I don't think people would complain about maps like Kotaro's or Fuga's if they came in with a more open mind and took the time to learn the game. I do think it is a failing of Conquest that these aspects of it couldn't be more transparent, but like Thracia if you can push past the game's cryptic nature I think it has the potential to be one of the most rewarding experiences in FE.

[@risersin7957]

Wait wait wait. You love Conquest and Thracia? Those are my two favorites. . .holy I don't see that very often! Good on you!

[@janrosa7243]

The thing is Kotaro's and Fuga's maps best highlight the problems with Conquest lategame maps of overrelying un debuffs and gimmicks to make a map frustratingly hard to the point of absurdity. By the time you reach Kotaro's map most of your units won't be able to take the assault of Ninjas and swordmasters consistently. Xander, Effie, Camilla, and possibly Corrin could but it's not 100% fool proof considering that your stats go down and poison strike will have you teetering on the edge of death for no reason other than it's "hard". It's not really an interesting challenge to have to build up your unit's defense so high that they can tank most hits and effectively turtle the map by having your characters stay at relatively close distances in case you get an unlucky miss at the wrong time. I won't say it's the most egregious map but it's certainly the start of a downturn considering the map that follows chapter 19. Offers many of the same issues but with much higher avoid, less cover to take advantage of, and far less options to pass the chapter efficiently. You may get a lot of beat items to use but notice how few people ever even recommend bringing kaze into the map since he's just too frail to keep at a close enough distance to keep as an ace. Generally for this map the main contenders to clear it properly are (you guessed it) Xander, Effie, Camilla, and Corrin. Fuga's chapter I don't think is to bad either but again it encourages turtling far more than it does most other aggressive playstyles. Even if you do get used to predicting the wind it's just generally safer and better to keep everyone together and strike when you get the wind pattern you want and need. Afterwards you get the infamous chapters 23, 24, and endgame which are by far some of the most disgusting displays of having almost only one way to effectively clear them. 23 and 24 less so but endgame is most certainly is and after playing Chapter 13 (Chasing Daybreak) on maddening in 3H it only further solidified my hatred for maps like this. These are maps that pretty much require you to have some solid luck on your side or have effectively planned to tackle this chapter from the time you even got to it. Thankfully in 3H stride, warp and other spells aren't limited. Yet in Conquest, warp, rescue, silence, and other very useful spells are and it ultimately makes for a frustrating and near impossible experience if you lacked them. Ultimately Conquest early game is a prime example of what the perfect strategy game is and should be but come Chapter 17 and onwards you get this dull and tedious endeavor that is more frustrating than it is satisfying to beat.

[@ziggymcdougal]

@@janrosa7243 eeh, this logic in general seems pretty backwards. You say that a lot of CQ's gimmicks and the like can be cheese'd through turtling yet most of your grievances with lategame Conquest (save chapter 19 which is just a bad map) can be solved by not turtling. It's this mentality of consciously avoiding gimmicks that's what trips people up, when they could instead be using them to their advantage. For example there's no prediction required for Chapter 20 (fuga's map) of conquest. The wind rotates on a set cycle and playing aggressively allows you to control entire portions of the map within the first 3 or 4 turns. Getting harassed by flying units and overwhelmed by reinforcements can be entirely mitigated through taking the initiative. Chapter 17 also can be approached aggressively and much of the headache people have with can be alleviated as a result. The ninjas and even the master ninja enemies are incredibly frail and are prone to being one shot by a lot of your stronger units, meaning player phase combat can allow you to bypass a lot of the debuffing, especially since very few of them actually debuff your strength. The game also gives you Shura whose stats are high enough that let him orko Ninjas even after the silver shuriken debuffs. Furthermore, the actual debuffs themselves can be played around if you cycle which units see enemy phase combat. And the game gives you this wiggle room through creating chokepoints, allowing you to only have 1 unit get debuffed per enemy phase, and the caltrops which slow down the enemy's advance. Like with the previous example, most player grievances of this map can be solved just through being proactive. But instead people choose not to think and then blame the game for being too difficult. Chapter 24 I can understand having issues with even if I disagree. But what's wrong with chapter 23? That map is hardly what I call "infamous" even for people that dislike Conquest. Many of the scary formations like Hinata's can be entirely skipped if you wanted to with flier units, made easier with staves like freeze of which Conquest gives you plenty, and a lot of enemies remain stationary unless you go out of your way to aggro them which gives the player complete agency over how difficult the map can be. As for artificial difficulty through limited resources, I think you're forgetting how other FE games are also guilty of this such as Thracia, FE9, FE11, and FE12. Never played CQ on normal and hard so I can't speak for how a first time player's experience is there but players playing lunatic should understand that endgame is a major bottleneck that impacts resource management throughout the game. If this is somehow an issue with CQ then it should also be an issue with the games stated above. My point still stands. 90% of FE players playing on lunatic only take issue with Conquest lategame because it expects them to go beyond enemy phase juggernauting and rudimentary tactics. As far as FE lategames are concerned i'd say it's better designed than most games in the series including GBAFE, Thracia, and FE11 H5.

[@janrosa7243]

@@ziggymcdougal >"You say that a lot of CQ's gimmicks and the like can be cheese'd through turtling yet most of your grievances with lategame Conquest" Cheesing means making things difficult. Even if you turtle these maps there is a real 100% chance of failure at any given moment especially considering that Ninjas can and will demolish anything they get close to. Turtling in chapter 17, 20 and some others will still take you an absurd amount of time and thus increase the chance of you making a mistake, getting unlucky, or something going wrong. Even then I didn't say a lot the problem is that it's the best strategy for endgame. "For example there's no prediction required for Chapter 20 (fuga's map) of conquest. The wind rotates on a set cycle and playing aggressively allows you to control entire portions of the map within the first 3 or 4 turns. Getting harassed by flying units and overwhelmed by reinforcements can be entirely mitigated through taking the initiative." That's why I didn't mention mister Fuga because the cycle is predictable and this you can actually cheese by staying on the sides and getting the right wind patterns. Pretty much no one plays aggressive on this map unless you intend to LTC it. The only aggressive portion is taking out the fliers and the rest is pretty much making sure you can take out enemies safely without being blown away in unwanted directions by the wind. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fWGTYXaObdhgf9E kzbin.info/www/bejne/e4LPh42irceskLc kzbin.info/www/bejne/opvVl4h6pql_rLs Here are three videos of the map on Lunatic. First two are pretty much similar to how I ran my run. The last one is technically not an LTC but clearly done with the intention of avoiding much of the other enemies. I'm not saying you can't LTC the map. I actually do agree that if LTC is your thing Conquest is one of the best games to do this as it does require more strategy when compared with other titles (3H). The problem is that LTC runs end up having you avoid many of the major confrontations and applications of said gimmicks. Most of the time LTC runs devolve to the same dance, Ferry Corrin, Camila, or Xander then pray to RNG that you got the hit you wanted. It's a matter of clearing your way of obstacles rather than tackling things in an interesting manner. IMO there are exemptions to this rule but I would only consider them when map objective is defend, Escape, Ferry, Keep unit alive (and route), etc. Things that don't simply have you defeat commander. :Chapter 17 also can be approached aggressively and much of the headache people have with can be alleviated as a result. ..." That's why I said this is the start of the downturn, far from the worst, but not the best. Also disagree about strong units. Your strongest that could consistently survive this are effie, Corrin, Xander, and Camila. You can cycle them but it's quite easy to get overwhelmed if you play too aggresive. But I do admit that playing too defensively on this map is as much of a problem itself so overall it's more fair. "Chapter 24 I can understand having issues with even if I disagree. But what's wrong with chapter 23? That map is hardly what I call "infamous" even for people that dislike Conquest. Many of the scary formations like Hinata's can be entirely skipped if you wanted to with flier units, made easier with staves like freeze of which Conquest gives you plenty, and a lot of enemies remain stationary unless you go out of your way to aggro them which gives the player complete agency over how difficult the map can be..." I meant 25 and 26 but my brain forgot that conquest had more than 25 chapters. (not including endgame) I actually had no problem with 24 because I had so many archers in preparation for chapter 25. Otherwise it's easy to see why it can be considered worse than 20 for many. "As for artificial difficulty through limited resources, I think you're forgetting how other FE games are also guilty of this such as Thracia, FE9, FE11, and FE12. Never played CQ on normal and hard so I can't speak for how a first time player's experience is there but players playing lunatic should understand that endgame is a major bottleneck that impacts resource management throughout the game. If this is somehow an issue with CQ then it should also be an issue with the games stated above." First off kind of insulting to think I haven't played on Lunatic and am not basing my grievances on this mode. I didn't mention it explicitly but I did mention I played 3H maddening. Second it is? Have you never looked on forums discussing issues with Thracia. As for Shadow Dragon, PoR (Can't speak for this one as I haven't played it yet and just recently got it), (not going into New mystery cause never played it nor do I care much about emulators at the moment.) There is no spell requirement to beat Shadow Dragon's endgame. You aren't gated with a near impossible chapter that deters playing in just about any sort of way. In Shadow Dragon there is still some degree of Safety at every moment and you are given bountiful resources to achieve your objective. You don't literally rely on having your 2 uses of warp, or the 4 rescues + silences to make some decent progress on the map. Conquest Endgame Lunatic is not fair, fun nor interesting. It's amusing that you didn't even address this in your post because you know it to be true. Inevitable end staff users with infinite uses and endless reinforcements only allow for one other non cheese (but still by your definition cheese) method of winning and that is 100% turtling. Honestly people hate it but Siegberts' paralogue (I beat it just before endgame so enemies were at their worst) was far more fair and strategic and fulfilling to beat. It had the hallmarks of a great map. The challenge is there (in abundance)and the only time I NEEDED to use a specific staff was to move Siegbert slightly south because he was a tile too high to survive the first turn. Afterwards the map becomes pure strategy and every unit counts. There is no LTC way to beat this. It's just you and the decisions you make along the way. I wish I had recorded it just so I could show off the fun I started having once I realized that it could be feasibly done. "90% of FE players playing on lunatic only take issue with Conquest lategame because it expects them to go beyond enemy phase juggernauting and rudimentary tactics. As far as FE lategames are concerned i'd say it's better designed than most games in the series including GBAFE, Thracia, and FE11 H5." Strongly, STRONGLY disagree. HHM is an underrated gem and easily the most balanced FE Lunatic experience when it comes down to it. Very few maps make you want to rip your heart out and the game will always put strategy first.

[@ziggymcdougal]

@@janrosa7243 me bringing up normal and hard was to comment on how most people who play lunatic have played Cq before and already understand the importance of resources like silence and rescue in the lategame. I don’t know how you got I was trying to insinuate you haven’t played lunatic. My stance on CQ maps also wasn’t in the eyes of an LTCer. You can still be aggressive while taking your time to kill all the enemies and get all the loot. There is a difference between consciously making the most out of each turn and digging your heels in a corner and waiting for the enemies to come to you. Also I don’t see how there being a chance of failure if the player employs turtley strats is bad design when it’s usually a point of praise when an FE map dissuades the player from turtling. And I disagree with the HHM and Siegbert paralogue points but at this rate it just feels like a difference in opinion so after hearing your side of this, if you wish to divulge, I will just agree to disagree.

[@takoomer9339]

Fates has a place in my heart since Conquest was my first ever game I bought when I first started earlier this year. Regardless on how terrible the story might be I still adore the characters and their designs.

[@chaincat33]

1:09:36 so, there is a reason for this. The Nohrian and Hoshidan characters were written with two very different frames of reference in mind. There's a word for it, but let's call it individualism vs communalism. Nohrian characters are individuals. They are defined, first and foremost, by themselves. You can take any Nohrian character in a vacuum, and they will stand on their own more or less as well as they do in game. Consequently, however, their relationships don't have as much of an influence on who they are. Many Nohrian characters are loners, essentially, only having bonds with other characters practically by chance, like Charlotte and Benny knowing eachother because they were deployed together. Using Charlotte as a further example, she's defined by her rough upbringing and her desire to marry into a wealthy family to help her parents out of poverty, and thus has to put her own feelings aside for the good of others. An unhappy marriage is worth it if her parents don't have to suffer. And, so, she even tricks herself into thinking being a gold digger makes her happy. What else is she to do? And this is all reflected in her supports, as all of her supports are with new people, and her attempting to worm her way into a relationship with someone she thinks is rich, or form friendships or rivalries with the girls to assert herself as top bitch. Hoshidan characters, on the flip side, are communal characters. They are defined, first and foremost, by where they fit in the community, and the rest of the cast. Just about every hoshidan knows someone else, every hoshidan has some job or role in the community that makes them important. You cannot lift a hoshidan character other than maybe Rinkah and have them stand on their own in a vacuum, they just don't make any sense otherwise. However, they have much richer bonds and backstories with other characters as a result. This is part of why Birthright as a whole has a much stronger story, all the characters act as a cohesive whole and actually make sense to be working together. Take Orochi, for instance. On her own, she's a fortune teller and something of a con artist, essentially. And that's it, that's her entire character. But when you consider her relationships with the rest of the cast, that is when she is much more. She was the diviner for Queen Mikoto, and is on a first name basis with all of the Hoshidan royals, having watched most of them grow up from birth. Plus she's good friends with most of the other retainers, and all of her supports reflect her existing relationships from before the game even started.

[@crimsonowl1420]

This was a really well thought out video. If there's one thing I heavily disagree with is your thoughts on Niles. The way I see it, Niles is a complex character who may seem like a sadist and a flirt at first glance, there is more to him than that. Even if he does come from a broken past like most FE characters, it can be enlightening to see that there is more to him. I said he's complex because he does't really want to show his vulnerability due to his past and it makes sense. He acts the way he acts as a defense mechanism. He even admits that he fears abandonment because of his past. His support with his daughter also highlights his backstory. For him, he had no choice but to live life as a thief. He didn't have the privilege his daughter has and he doesn't want her to walk the same path he did because he knows from experience that she may go through the same thing and he doesn't want that for her. Niles is complex, there's no denying that but his personality is more than just one-note. He's like a jewel that has a lot of facets to him and it makes him quite an interesting character. He also happens to be bisexual. Which doesn't play into his personality, unlike Heather or Soleil who can be summed up as "I like girls!" I, as a gay man, get kind of annoyed when I see people saying that queer characters can't be written in certain ways. Yes, there are poorly written queer characters but there are queer ones who are written great. Which brings up the question: What is the right way to write a queer character? With Niles, he may have come from a dark and broken past but him being bi doesn't play any role in that nor does it diminish him being bi. Queer characters shouldn't be confined to a box of what they should be like because it's not like that in the real world. Yes, there are people who may not like him but there are also others like me and other queer people who like Niles. If anything, I love Niles and his backstory. Is his character written perfectly? No. Is his character written badly? No. He's just Niles.

[@V-Jes]

Odd you would bring Soleil there tho considering shes not even really "into" girls as she is still straight, tho the English localization just made her dialog lot more lesbian while also making most of her S ranks just "friend zone" the guy for some reason while in Japanese version they get together.

[@heartfulcry]

@@V-Jes yeah because a woman who constantly compliments, fantasises about, and flirts with other women is suuuper straight. deffo. even if you wanna argue she’s still attracted to men because i guess your weeb waifu fantasy is THAT important to you, that would just mean she’s bisexual.

[@V-Jes]

@@heartfulcry Or you know, you are the one missing the point as shes based on a stereo type that doesn't exist in western media who likes girls but is still straight because liking and actually loving are 2 separate things what certainly is lost in English where the word "love" is more often used to just say "really like" than outright "love" something these days, and i think you should stop taking whatever you use because you are clearly hallucinating considering how you somehow think i have freaking waifu fantasies from a comment like that -_-'

[@genuineangusbeef8697]

The story analysis truly reminded me of how much I despise this game's main story writing. It was so frustrating to watch many pieces of this story unfold.

[@magusi9029]

From Awakening to Engage (Currently playing Engage) Fates is still my favorite. Not because of the story, but do to sheer content, battle mechanics and the Hub.

[@heith1229]

Saying Azura in conquest was banished isn't quite accurate. She was never officially banished by the government. The soldiers were just racist and took matters into their own hands. But this is a nitpick

[@THEONLYOCS]

I never ended up finishing my first run of Fates due to playing conquest on hard and being unprepared for how difficult it would end up being. After watching your analysis I feel inclined to give the game another shot because I did love the gameplay!

[@sageoffire3964]

My youngest brother (8) never played Fire Emblem before, not had interest in them outside of playing as Marth in Smash Bros. Me and him both have 3DS, and I've given him any games I don't like that he may enjoy. Hyrule Warriors Legends and Hot Wheels Battle Force 5 so far. A few days ago, he heard me listening to Lost in Thoughts All Alone, and he loved the song. That alone made him want to play Fire Emblem far more than Smash ever had. Since I personally didn't enjoy it, I gave him the only one I had, Birthright. I let him watch a couple trailers, and he was only more and more excited to play his first Fire Emblem game. I of course set it to easy, as well as put it on Phoenix mode so he would be able to just enjoy the game. In the span of a weekend, he had gotten to chapter 15, where as I couldn't bring myself past chapter 7. He LOVES the game. He hasn't poured himself into a game like this since I gifted him Pokemon Omega Ruby last year. At some point I'll be hunting down and gifting him Conquest, and Revelations after he beats that.

[@V-Jes]

Why not just buy Conquest and Revelation as DLC as it's cheaper to buy them that way than physical copies (not to mention Revelation can only be bought that way unless it's the special edition)?

[@sageoffire3964]

@@V-Jes Because I didn't know that was an option.

[@nessmess500]

Man the gameplay, music, and atmosphere of these games are absolutely phenomenal! Especially with the last two points, they are probably my most favorite games in this entire series in those areas!

[@jhumza]

This is actually crazy i was just watching through all of your retrospective videos today when i see that you uploaded the newest one just today!

[@mesan4641]

21:00 You forgot the best option, To join Smash

[@Zane_tube17]

Bmo

[@Hakayami]

I think Fates is one of my favorite Fire Emblem games by far. I love all the game changing they made

[@TrexGamer.]

Fates was my first ever Fire Emblem game, so I’m kinda blinded by bias towards it. And I loved it, I loved the world, the characters the relationships I forged with Support Conversations. For a little while I didn’t like Azura but that was short lived as I adored her character and her relationship with Corrin and the story progressed I fell in love with her character. And when I played Revelations for the first time I did have Corrin S Rank Azura, now yes it was before that chapter but learning that didn’t ruin the relationship in my head, saying it out loud that sounds really freakin weird but in a world where people can turn into dragons and Katana’s can shoot fuckin lightning. I’ll let it slide

[@Armadan7]

You should look up the support conversations in properly translated fan sites. Treehouse should never be allowed to localize ever again.

[@nick3805]

I'll be honest: Fire Emblem Fates Conquest was my first Fire Emblem because I wasn't even aware of the multiple paths when I bought it. I have beaten it twice before buying the other two.

[@azulesmalls5514]

I just hit pocket castle and now I cannot wait to see how he reacts to Echoes.... Though technically they aren't hubworlds I really want to see his reaction

[@Rickxekken]

Man, can't wait for the Fire Emblem Heroes retrospective

[@Scanny524]

Conquest is probably my favourite game in the series in terms of pure gameplay. I do like to revisit it every now and then. Here's a tip for anyone looking to play it again: Slam on the start button for every story scene. The story has no worth to it. Character interaction in supports is fine, but otherwise you're better off skipping it. Funny how much Conquest contrasts with Echoes really, which is much more beautiful as a complete experience but has gameplay on the crappier end of the Fire Emblem spectrum. Not worthless mind you, but not quite as fascinating as Fates.

[@dragondrakage2402]

Glad someone out there can see the good in fates instead of straight hating the game

[@mariocruno3772]

Saw it entirely while cleaning the house. Loved the video! Excited to see more :D

[@joserachi96]

1:44:30 OH his gonna love 3 houses hub world just for this :)

[@Mito383]

Corrin: “Hello step-sister, are you stuck in the washing machine again?”

[@Tomwithnonumbers]

"Let's invade a kingdom so the evil king hopefully sits on a throne which might be magical" ~ when you have no reverse gear in your planning

[@Kriosaivak]

Oh boy, Echoes is up next! Definitely one of my favorites, I can't wait! :)

[@Kenna002]

In all honesty, Fates will always hold a special place in my heart. Fire Emblem Fates: Conquest was the first Fire Emblem game I'd ever played. It led me to play Birthright and Revelation, and then eventually to Awakening, then to Echoes: Shadows of Valentia, and then Three Houses. Once I can get my hands on some of the older games I 100% plan on going back to play them. But even though I understand a lot of the criticism surrounding the Fates game, especially now when I go back and play them after playing some of the other games, it will still always be incredibly important to me. I still treasure those hours upon hours of playing Fates haha

[@mihaimercenarul7467]

you need a brain, not a heart

[@danielcook7975]

You know you love fire emblem when you are literally as old as the series itself, I am! I am thirty one! Fire emblem is thirty years old now that also makes me old lol seriously it is true if a game series is as old as you then you are officially in fandom terms old

[@MissileLaneE]

Loving this series. Really well-research and well-made :) I don't get why people would have told you to skip Revelations. It's clearly the canon story path that fully reveals the game's underlying mystery.

[@fortello7219]

1:55:40 Fates (conquest specifically) was the game I joined the series on. I've always loved tactical games and I was interested in stepping in after awakening blew up, so I decided to chance it. The advertising of a hard and east mode between the two games lured me in, and I decided to go with Conquest as I was a tactical rpg veteran but new to the series as a whole. I have to say, it was an absolutely delightful game to start with. While, certainly, the writing was nothing to write home about, the game play was absolutely superb. I was enthralled and enjoyed learning all the little detail on my blind hard mode classic run. When I hit the brick wall of chapter 10 and the game was only 2 days old and there were no guides to the chapters yet, it was a fantastic challenge that actually had me drop the difficulty since I wanted to keep my units and didn't want to restart to level them better for the map. I really enjoy this analysis and I think you did an excellent job acknowledging all the parts of the game. Many, MANY, reviews I've heard for this give no credence to the combat, as the reviewers are usually long time fire emblem fans that don't really give it a shot and don't mention much about the combat at all, except that "Conquest is hard". When it's really a lot more than that. After this I played Shadows of Valencia and Awakening before going back to some older games. But I have to say that Awakening was almost unplayable after starting off with such a rich and interesting combat experience as Conquest. Awakening lacked any good scaling or changes for hard mode, and I died several times because of the pair up mechanic's random chance messing with my plans. But when pair up didn't prevent me from planning accordingly it made everything way too easy. I quickly began to miss the hard figures of my durability free weapons, reliable results of skills and pair ups, and leaving luck only for the battles themselves. While most of the other games in the series really don't add anything I appreciate to tactical RPGs, I'll always appreciate what this game added to the experience.

[@h0m3st4r]

At the end of the day, as much as Fates' writing could stand to be improved, it still proves that gameplay, not story, is the most important part of a game-and how much people tend to miss that.

[@sneakretster]

Ehhhhhhhh, when it comes to fire emblem story is equally important to the experience and they massively dropped the ball on that so it really killed the experience overall. Bad character and story writing in a heavily character and story focused game is just a huge disappointment 🤷

[@ImWatchingYou69]

@@sneakretster cap + ratio + animu pfp weeaboos wrong as always FE storylines are generic, forgettable anime crap lol, the only exception being PoR. They are still good games in spite of this.

[@sneakretster]

@@ImWatchingYou69 the "anime crap" pretty much only applies to fates and awakening, awakening being the lesser evil of the two, and now apparently Echoes, Three houses, and Genealogy no longer have the strong and well presented narratives they're known for. Clearly you have a Tellius bias and aren't fairly judging the other entries if you claim they're all "forgettable anime crap" And "anime pfp" is such a terribly low attempt at trying to belittle an argument, joke or not 🤷

[@aes6474]

It’s so nice to hear someone speak kindly about Fates. It’s got it’s flaws and they’re pretty damn apparent, but they’re not unplayable games. This retrospective series is so dope.

[@aes6474]

It’s crazy too how Fates has some of the best CGI cutscenes in FE. They never fail to deliver, especially the initial fight between Xander and Ryoma. That scene of Ryoma vaulting over the soldiers and eclipsing the sun always gives me chills

[@BBHood217]

I have to thank you for this video, mainly because you always pronounced "Revelation" correctly when everyone else seems to think it's plural.

[@KillerSmile559]

Despite the story not being the best, it had so much potential. The gameplay was absolutely fantastic. I couldn't tell you how many times I have played the exp grind dlc map and the gold grind dlc map just for the gameplay.

[@BiggestSniff]

imagine a timeline where Nintendo wasn’t so damn greedy and release this game as it was probably intended; one singular game with three different paths for maximum replayability. The fact that it was advertised that you could choose different paths is almost like false advertising, since you had to pay for them. I’ve never finished any of them, and I have no doubt that the gameplay could be on par with awakening, but the aforementioned is why I don’t think I could stomach playing them.

[@laddismaximus9535]

I have a crazy bias towards the whole of fates. It was the game that got me into the series and while I’m glad it did, it just makes me wish fates was better. I mean, what an amazing concept and what wasted potential for something that was eventually done to a staggeringly good degree in Three Houses. I’d love to see these three games be rewritten and made anew, or hell, get a team together of people who would be passionate enough to make Fates work.

[@Danitron904]

Amazing video shane! I love many apsects of the review, but I particularly love the focus you gave towards the mechanics and customization. That is an aspect that does not get enough attention. Conquest is my all time favorite game; every time I replay it, everytime I get to experiment with builds, everytime I overcome the difficult map design (which I have done 5 times, 6 if I count my current lunatic mode), it just gets better, and better. Again, amazing video.

[@mads_in_zero]

You put Echoes' _Omen_ at the end of this video, and now I'm listening to it on repeat. It's my favorite Fire Emblem game, and I'll love it to death forever.

[@Zane_tube17]

Hi hatsune miku

[@UltraPaperGamer]

Yeah, Fates is a Really Good Game with a Bad story. That's the real Issue.

[@elhoplita300]

I would even say that it has the elements for a good story but that it is poorly written

[@TheRedScizor]

idk, the maps in Birthright and Rev range from boring to tedious to frustrating imo

[@gormflaith2326]

Birthright has the "best" story (still kinda poopy at times) Conquest has the best gameplay Revelation...is also there

[@gormflaith2326]

@@mickeyesoum3278 Good for you, but the people who dislike the story for very valid reasons aren't snobbish. They're just as entitled to their opinion as you

[@gormflaith2326]

@@mickeyesoum3278 that's certainly true for a portion of the community, but as a whole I think people are quite accepting of the newer games. Hell, I started with Awakening and yet I get along fine with most fans. Any toxicity I've encountered is from extremists on both sides, the newer fans who dismiss the older games and call people elitists, and the actual elitists who gatekeep perfectly decent people from the community. It's not as black and white as the entire community being toxic

[@ty_sylicus]

Absolutely wonderful! I can't believe how far you've come and the in-depth nature of this series still impresses me. Looking forward to the next two videos. As for myself, this series has reignited my love for Fire Emblem and I am now planning to finally finish: FE6, Radiant Dawn, Fates: Revelation, and finally Three Houses which I have been putting off for the longest time, for some odd reason that eludes me. Thank you!

[@feministadentata4041]

I tend to play Fire Emblem games on normal classic and then Fates (FE14 BR being the first FE game that hooked me, after not being impressed by FE7 on GBA) isn't nearly as "bad" as people say it is. I also feel like Fire Emblem is a series that's influenced quite a bit by a subset of fans who try to sabotage opinions. So at first I was hesitant to give FE another shot, because too many people said Fates was a horrible game and I should play FE3 in Japanese on an original system blindfolded instead. -_-' Turns out it's really enjoyable and a good entry point. I actually really like "blegh, modern FE is just an anime dating sim for weebs" with my strategy RPG. Now I love the series and even gave the GBA games another try. After experiencing Echoes' systems the older systems are easier to digest. :)

[@Mr96POP]

I think anyone warning you to not play a certain game just because it might be very bad is ridiculous. You give such nuanced analysis for every one of these games, but other fans just want to have their opinions validated. Even _if_ those games were as bad as the FE community made them out to be, wouldn’t it be better for you to play them anyways so you can understand _why_ those games are flawed? For example, Fates is my personal least favorite FE game, but I still want to hear your thoughts anyways regardless of whether you agree or not because I’m genuinely curious as to how you’d view such a divisive entry.

[@TheManeymon]

I subbed after watching your awakening retrospective but I forgot to turn the bell on and almost missed this

[@AriaBaileyS10]

I got conquest for my birthday and didn't realize how difficult it would be.

[@Greil9]

I can't wait for him to reach Three Houses. To me, most of the game felt like "Okay, let's take all the things we did in Fates, but learn from what we did wrong and build upon it. Story, gameplay, home base, all of it." Sure it too had hiccups here and there, but to me it felt like what they wanted to do in Fates. Especially in the multi-faction story that had moral complexity.

[@notwhoyouthunk]

“Hey you know about those STRs that we rightfully took out in Fates” “Yeah” “Well let’s put them back in” “Sure” I know divine pulse exists, but come onnnnn

[@samkim12345]

Idk, I think they had very different direction in mind with both They’ve actually stated in a March 2020 Nintendo Dream director interview that they didn’t think people would play more than route in 3H, which explains why the maps are so similar. Meanwhile Fates clearly pushes you into buying all three for the whole experience If you’re curious, you can find the interview on Serenes and on reddit I personally think Fates did better with how it reused maps and map design in general. It may have been 3 games to 3H’s one but I feel they still could’ve made the maps more different just in the slightest ways. And the “they won’t play than once” idea certainly doesn’t help And I find the My Castle way less of a slog than the Monastery The character writing and story writing is league betters for sure, but I feel that unlike Fates, Three Houses was made with stuff like. grey morality in mind. Plus most of the writing was handled by Koei (you can see in interviews and in the credits) Really, I don’t think they were trying to do Fates better. Just different.

[@V-Jes]

And then they somehow screwed up everything that was great in Fates, including the multiple paths/routes both games are known for...

[@Greil9]

@@samkim12345 If that's what the interviews said, then that's how it is. It's simply how it felt for me playing both games without looking into behind the scenes stuff. I got the feeling the Fates routes tried to not make any side evil, or maybe they did try to make Nohr that and Corrin was just really stupid. Whereas Fates just showed different sides to the same conflict and what motivated each faction and now they were involved. Though no idea why they thought people would only play one route when several routes leave out plot-critical details, like how in Blue Lions you don't even learn who Those Who Slither In The Dark are.

[@samkim12345]

@@Greil9 garon and his lackies are clearly cartoonishly evil, it’s just everyone else in nohr just happens to be not they just made up a dumb reason for Corrin to fight all of Hoshido and only try to justify the nohr royals through loyalty And then Xander talks about justice and gray sides, but it feels completely unrelated it’s kinda funny actually

[@kieronireikets7884]

I think a thing with Fates, is despite how much more character driven it is supposed to be compared to other FE games, the characters never stinking TALK to each other, and so many problems would be solved if they would stop keeping arbitrary secrets for each other and just TALK

[@nlsnator3802]

Fates Conquest is my favorite Fire Emblem game.

[@risersin7957]

Same. Thracia is 2nd favorite.

[@joshuamehrdad8186]

I really love Fire emblem Fates and I've probably beat conquest 8 times already, But admittedly, a large portion of the enjoyment came from my powersave, being able to hack in seeds of trust to get the child units you want, bypassing the dragon cost of building things by adding 99 DP, and reclassing units into classes they cant originally access is a lot of fun and removes a lot of tedium

[@Namevah]

My only problem with the My Castle feature is that, at a certain point, hitting all the locations became routine. Admittedly, I didn't play around with the weapon crafting as much as I should have, and I didn't touch the prison stuff at all. If/when I play Fates again, I'll have to spend more time with those. A good retrospective that reminded me why, despite the mountain of criticism you'll find online, I still enjoyed Fates. It was my favorite game of that year, something I don't regret saying.

[@Marescio]

So, exactly the same as with the monastery in 3H... I couldn't even get through a second playthrough it got so repetitive.

[@infinitepasta]

I only played conquest and it was one of the most enjoyable experience of the franchise, but i didnt played the other bc i heard they werent as fun

[@danielcook7975]

You should just to see if it is true, I heard that too but from what I seen and heard the other two are just as enjoyable, the one that people say is not fun is the revelation route but that is my favorite route mainly cause of how good it ends from videos and such I seen. The best option is to play all routes and if you still do not like it then understandably that you don't, but seeing is believing and I am honestly tired of people bitchjng and complaining about something they never played or even seen yet just give it a try and if you still don't like it then fine but there are people who love the games despite what they heard. Sorry truly the old man in me is talking lol I tend to get this way now and again maybe it is cause I been around long enough to see both sides of the spectrum and understand both sides

[@SonicLegends]

Well it is because it's the one where you have to think more with your units as it's the hardest difficulty of the three that's close to arguably Thracia 776 and Radiant Dawn. Birthright is close to Awakening difficulty which was even stated publicly about it hence why it sold more. Conquest was meant for the older fans who are veterans. To all go further it has different map objectives Birthright lacks like the chapter 10 defend against Takumi that is considered one of the best maps in the series by fans.

[@infinitepasta]

@@SonicLegends i watched full playthroughs of all of them and a buddy lent me a 3ds with conquest, i got lucky that that's the one he got bc the others dont seem fun if you compare them to awakening

[@infinitepasta]

@@danielcook7975 i only got my hands on conquest because i borrowed it and a 3ds from a friend, if in all of them the story sucks and the others are easier im glad i got conquest in the end

[@dakotadoyle7573]

Conquests plot is the kind of plot that only works if all the characters decided to not think at any point in the plan

[@bornanime3255]

So far this video is the best fates review/retrospective I've seen. Really neat

[@DestinyZX1]

This is what I have been waiting for

[@cameronmcphee8224]

“Try to remember that neither of these are the one canon story.” Revelation: Am I a joke to you?

[@mcihay246]

... Yes...

[@breadburner7276]

well yes

[@renren47618]

All of them are canon because Heirs of Fate

[@jaycenteno8385]

A video over 2 hours long... I loved every second of it! :)

[@steelcircleguild]

This was, by far, my favorite video you did for your Fire Emblem Retrospective series. Too many people for these games want to pick a side in saying it's good or it's bad rather than just enjoying the games for what they are. Hearing these sorts of torn wars over this is sickening and really just drives the fun out of it. Shouldn't matter whether it's good or bad, it's about the message at the end and these games are certainly well crafted enough to be enjoyed rather than being swayed to a side of a hive mind.

[@Hesketh32]

2:13:00 so hard for some people to grasp that idea srsly is kinda tiring and whats funny is that they dont think its toxic

[@_ArsNova]

Nice video. Very well made, a good long-form review, and exactly what I was looking for in that it wasn't full of dumb pop culture references/wise cracks. It's an informed guy calmly talking about and critiquing the game.

[@NiNeKeeP72279]

Thank you very much for the video! Great resource whenever I want to revisit the old Fire Emblem titles without spending too much time playing them again

[@cronical246]

If Fates is ever remade, I wouldn't mind them rewriting the story to make it a lot more palatable

[@maximillionare7547]

Fates might honestly be my favorite FE game. I’ve easily put the most hours into it

[@petertilton7004]

Actually, a plot point in Revelation does bring Mikoto's death to light: A magic barrier protected Nohrians from invading Hoshido, yet a mysterious figure was able to get through said barrier. After the Mikoto battle that figure is revealed to be Sumeragi, Hoshido's fallen king, sent by Anankos to kill Mikoto. A dumb plot twist but it does make sense that a Hoshidan was able to instigate the battle after.

[@DavidHutchinson0713]

Also, Hinoka specifically worded it as a barrier that wards off regular soldiers by removing their will to fight upon entering Hoshido. But most of the Vallites _don't_ have a will of their own; they exist to obey the whims of another being. They're rather like the Faceless in that regard.

[@MHSchonberg]

Oh man, I’ve been waiting for this one. I’m definitely more accepting on the designs, characters, and gameplay than most people I’ve seen review it, but I’m still very critical of the overall story and... certain characters. So I can’t wait to see your thoughts and analysis! It’s definitely one of the most contentious and criticized FE games, but no matter what, this game created Rinkah and therefore it will never be irredeemable in my eyes.

[@marcoasturias8520]

Rinkah best girl

[@justsomejojo]

I never played Revelations because I didn't like the other two games enough so hearing someone call it something other than abysmal was a surprise. Overall, I remember really liking Fates mechanically - the weapon effects system especially, since it traded the previous strategic aspect of durability for another strategic aspect in unit builds and risk/reward with self debuff weapons. Story-wise, I just never could get past the convenient "we managed to do it without any single casualty" thing that pops up everytime. I think it really took away from the hardship of Corrin's paths and limited the scope to the two families' main members. They ARE the focus, sure, but any of the faceless soldiers basically become a non-issue narratively (in terms of the war's effect and scope) when they all miraculously survive in a single sentence. I was using explosive shuriken and devastating magic, as well as poison knives and twohanded swords, but sure, we just bonked them all unconscious. I know it's nitpicky as heck, but it REALLY bothered me. Overall, I actually prefered Birthright because it felt more "played straight". It needed less contrivant schemes to make sense. I sometimes wonder how much of the original 500 page scripts actually made it in unchanged and how much was cut and/or changed.

[@c.carnival]

For how much shit Fates gets from the fanbase, Three Houses does take a lot of inspiration from it.

[@zaneheaston8254]

I would argue Three Houses takes more from Echoes than Fates, no weapon triangle, refined combat art system, & Mila's Turn Wheel, I mean Divine Pulse

[@Talyrion]

Not going to lie, this video made me want to bust out my 3DS from its drawer and start playing again.

[@SeraidenAF]

Your reviews have made me so happy, and this one especially, it may be more "junk food" story but gameplay and fun wise? It's so, so good and amazing, just fun AF.

[@frug9236]

The worst part of the Fire Emblem community is absolutely the echo-chamber hivemind aspect of it. So many people refuse to give Fates a chance just because talking heads (or palm trees) dismissed the games as cheesy, when they have some standout characters and fantastic gameplay. Hopefully your review will help to convince the community to give the game a second look and actually form their own opinions

[@Armadan7]

I for one boycotted Fates and got If instead. Very different games.

[@Andrew-Gomez904]

Cant wait for you to comeback man!