Fire Emblem - Evolution of Queer Representation (Path Of Radiance - Engage)

[@SteelPokeNinja]

I honestly feel Three Hopes really needs to be discussed over this as well, where it further emphasizes queer representation. For example, with Shamir, one of of her paralogues is her fighting off mercenaries hired by her ex who was a noblewoman. Additionally, one of her supports with Balthus has the two discuss how they don’t have the same taste in women, which has become my headcanon for why Shamir isn’t a same-sex option for Female Byleth.

[@tirex3673]

I want to note, that the Byleth/Edelgard ending being ambigous is something unique to the english localisation. In every other language (including other western localisations), their marriage is explicitly mentioned. Also, Jeritza was added in a free update. You don't have to pay for him.

[@troykv96]

Yeah, I was about to mention this, thanks for already doing so :D

[@zenmaster8]

@@troykv96 same

[@kevingame3198]

But still a happy ending

[@cupie2255]

I always paired Soleil with Forrest because it was the only possible pairing for her that would even *kind of* make sense. I personally just read Forrest and Rosado as confident femboys with no desire to transition, however.

[@Stachelbeeerchen]

Rosado is definitely a femboy that slays every outfit he wears.

[@lapsis6582]

Something you glossed over with Awakening is Tharja, who literally obsesses over Robin regardless of gender, yet can only marry male Robin

[@bladerdj3503]

300 IQ Move to disprove that Priam is proof for Ike being not gay: Ike has a little sister remember? So it is perfectly possible that the blue hair gene was transferred over all these decades. We know so little about Priam and his family. Pherhaps he went on a journey to become like this Radiant Hero from his family? I never thought of this possibility myself before. But now its my headcanon that Priam is not a decendendant from Ike but from Mist. Even if this is not the case, adoption is still an option duh.

[@garfieldkermit]

Exactly, there are so many reasons why someone would have a blood connection to Ike aside from him having children which is why I find Priam being proof of anything to be such a stretch

[@wolfofsummerbreeze]

Also I gotta say this: gay guys have historically had children!! They're are gay guys capable of having sex with women it's just not ideal for them. Think about all those stories about 'how do I tell my kids I'm gay/ my dad came out as gay'. How do you think those biological kids happen? There are also homo-romantic bisexuals who can be sexually attracted to women but only want to date men, which would make having a kid fairly easy.

[@MattDustyParker]

Recessive blue hair gene theory ftw

[@aghadlarhen9397]

not to mention that aside from FEH (which handles canon loosely as possible sometimes) there really isn't anything that corrobarates Priam's claim that he is descended of Ike in general. Ike is a common man, his blue hair isn't unique among beorc's and him owning Ragnell doesn't prove anything since the Ragnell he has is not only no longer enchanted but never had any blood-bearing restrictions on it in the first place. (It's why Alondite can also be wielded by ANYONE). It's JUST as likely for Priam to be someone who found Ragnell and decided to emulate Ike after hearing tales of his great deeds. I personally am in the camp that Priam is an Ike-larper for clout.

[@shannonjones8877]

Priam could be a direct descendant of Ike and that still doesn't disprove that he's gay. Being gay wouldn't make him sterile.

[@samuelflores2219]

Priam can also be a descendant of Mist, Ike's sister. It wouldnt be the first time something like this happened. Marth is sometimes called Anri's descendant even though it was his brother who continued the bloodline. Another thing that supports this is how Priam does not have Aether which was what Ike had.

[@lori2738]

I'd like to add an honorable mention to Fire Emblem heroes Nifl, who is the goddess of ice, is just straight up lesbian, there's no sugarcoating, she loved Hvergal, who was the queen of the kingdom Nifl looked over, calls her "her love", vowed to not love anyone else after Hvergal died, and she calls all descendants from the Queen "the children from both of their blood", like it's not subtle at all

[@aegisfehtube]

let's also not forget about the new shamir/catherine duo called heartbeats united (during pride month !!)

[@SteelPokeNinja]

@@aegisfehtube One of their home screen lines has Shamir state that in Dagda, people are free to marry whoever regardless of gender, and then she reacts to Catherine blushing over this

[@rontheauraknight9606]

Something’s you didn’t point out for 3 houses is not counting hopes. In hopes Shamir is fully confirmed to be bisexual, Monica is very much an lesbian but in more of the stalkery way so idk if that’s good representation. As for houses itself in Japan Sylvain and Felix is apparently more romantic same with Catherine and Shamir (something their duo quote in heroes thats going the rounds now supports) And lastly I believe theirs Petra who if A supported with Dorothea loves her wife dearly

[@garfieldkermit]

In the OG version of the video from late March I mention my complete oversight of Hopes in the outro and I'm honestly still annoyed that I forgot it. Thank you for all the info! :)

[@craigresendes2403]

It’s nice to see the representation evolve, if albeit slowly, from the earlier queer-coded characters. Blazing Sword has Limstella who is agender (although they use the female model in-game, their original artwork is androgynous and Heroes also uses singular they to describe them). Legault is hinted to be bisexual-I’d argue he is onmisexual-(he has a romantic support with Isadora but is very flirtatious with Heath). In Sacred Stones, Tethys only romantically pairs with men but she is also flirty with Marisa at times. But then there’s other queer-coded characters played for laughs. The gay bandit duos (Maggie and Rose, Jasmine and Paul, Pain and Agony) are meant to be joke bosses who literally have Happiness Abounds (or the Radiant Dawn equivalent) play for their track. Then there’s Lucius. Sweet, sweet Lucius. The online community was particularly harsh in the 2004-2006 timeframe. Lucius has implied homosexual undertones with Raven, and Serra outright misgenders him. His fair complexion, long hair, and gentle nature are all played for laughs at points. I’d hope a remake would be a little more progressive about Lucius.

[@garfieldkermit]

I'm really hoping more of the series gets the echoes treatment since the extra development the characters got is such a great way to build on the foundations. I actually mention the older characters a bit in the original cut of the video, but thanks for the extra details!!

[@qqqqqqqqqqqq121212]

The Priam thing as proof of Ike’s straightness always seemed off to me (perspective from a straight man) because gay men can still have biological children. I don’t know how the thought of Ike getting someone pregnant through a passionless encounter might be viewed upon by people in the community - but it definitely could happen

[@SemekiIzuio]

I mean political marriages always have been a thing regardless of the people involve feelings' for one another and also sex after marriage was a constant push to bear an heir/ess. In stories with this concept the couple never touches again once the child is procreated. So yes it is completely possible Ike could have done it once to continue the bloodline then dipped once his "duty" was done. A good example of this was in FE:A, Chrom not pairing with anyone from the shepards, not finding a suitable wife. Because political reasons as prince (and story continuation reasons lol) the game pairs him with a random village maiden, again for bloodline reasons. Its kind of sad like the maidens were basically surrogates for children then told they had no power or relation to the child and nation. They were only picked to provide the king a heir/ess

[@Gabe_29]

People also dismiss that Priam may be a direct descendant of Mist's and not Ike. Making him related by blood, but not directly Ike's. It's not like Ragnell is blood related like other weapons, and Priam himself says he is the "hypothetical" descendant. Why would he use hypothetical if he was truly Ike's descendant?

[@beanie7042]

With Echoes, I remember a support between Palla and Catria that hints that Palla might have feelings for Minerva.

[@nightwish1453]

Actually Palla was thinking of Abel who is in love with est. The Palla and Est support shows the awkwardness of them pursuing the same Guy and Est tries to setup an arrangement with Palla to someone else and Palla shuts it down even though est is oblivious to knowing about it yet and just wanted to make her happy, Palla puts her sisters first before her own so she wants est to be happy with Abel. In mystery est does figure it out and decides to abandon Abel because she feels like a burden and leaves him because Palla put her feelings aside as well as thinking Palla would be a better match. Palla’s ending has her completely aware of the situation. Whitewings are pretty known for unrequited love which some of the later characters like Cordelia do follow suit

[@charhoang]

i think it’s a bit disingenuous to ignore 3H’s non-byleth paired endings. yes, byleth’s same sex endings leave much to be desired but 3H also contains a same-sex pairing for nearly every character in the game - dimitri/dedue, sylvain/felix, petra/dorothea and catherine/shamir are all really good examples. so i don’t think it’s as bad in the queer representation department as you imply.

[@tahamohammad8842]

10:36 in defense of gilbert and alois, those characters are literally married and have kids in universe before the game even starts. It’d be kinda weird for them to just cheat on their wives. Granted that does bring into question why they are S support options but I don’t think them being platonic is as bad as it seems on first glance given these characters being married in universe. Alois in particular seems to have a good relationship with his wife and daughter so I think it’d be kinda strange for him to just up and leave her for byleth. Granted these characters should not have been the only other two male gay S supports in the base game but I don’t find their supports that offensive given the fact they’re already married in universe. Though I am a cis heterosexual guy so take what I said with a large grain of salt.

[@hectorlackless]

Soleil is the greatest queer casuality in these games. Also I would have like to say I prefer the 3H system as I prefer the options being limited and part of the characters instead of everyone being bi, pan, omni, etc. This goes for both ways so if someone is gay/lesbian the hetero avatars can't romance them. Although the S ranks should probably improve in the guys department specially.

[@mochibunnyan6556]

I agree, though I think that if they DID have some exclusively gay romance options, it should be even numbers for both male and female avatar options

[@hectorlackless]

@@mochibunnyan6556 Yeah, I could do with a slight difference in numbers but nothing like 3h where males really got screwed up while females got some of the fan favorite characters

[@mihile4631]

@@hectorlackless As a bi guy, only being able to romance Linhardt, Jeritza and Alois (no DLC) was painful

[@Joof893]

I feel like something was missed here by skipping over Lyn/Florina and Raven/Lucius in fe7. Minor gripes aside great video!

[@garfieldkermit]

I mention the older pairings in the OG cut of the video which I link at the end, but even then I want to go into more detail on them eventually, so when I get a chance to play older titles I'll probably revisit this topic!

[@micahhall441]

Ike could be bi, or Priam could be the descendant of Mist or an Ike from an alternate universe, since those are canon to Awakening

[@yuuriahl]

Personally I was introduced with conquest from by boyfriend/fiance cause he was like "Niles is gay" and I just went "yes" I also love Forrest, and at least to me Forrest is clearly written to be a cis man (though gender non-conforming) who enjoys womens fashion and sewing, as in the game he audibly seems frustrated by other characters thinking hes a woman (yeah I know this could be just "im not trans" but at the end of the day it's still how hes written and I still enjoy it as is and appreciate him regardless, even though my headcannon is him being a gay boio)

[@skyplays9640]

Let's go! Making it convincingly impossible to make a character have a phobia to a gender, by the goal of having every romanceable character, bisexual. Limiting character interaction and dialogue by having to keep replies gender neutral, or require everything to have more than one dialogue path for gender references (This doesn't mean he/she. This also applies to potential character backstories needing to be altered in certain circumstances depending on if the player is going straight or gay.) Making the idea of children characters "impossible" (unless they try some "Ditto" level witchcraft) by having same gender romances. (This can potentially unbalance the game for players.) If they still insist on making this more and more common and somehow make it all work, perhaps, make it an optional setting ingame before the story begins. "Do you want all characters romanceable regardless of gender? Yes/No" That way players can see it all if they want to see it and players can avoid it if they want to avoid it. With the choice made, the dialogue would be adjusted accordingly, to allow a more comfortable setting for the player. With a pronoun/sexual preference they want being used throughout the game.

[@swoobatfan6606]

Subscribed purely because of the song outro choice. You have exceptional taste✨

[@garfieldkermit]

lmao thank you, sting deserves so much more than it got!

[@sontaranmc2109]

Good video! I do wanna add a few extra bits from pre-Tellius games that I’m guessing you may not have been aware of, though. - In FE3, Rickard flirts a bit with Julian, who is apparently unamused. That’s all there is, but it’s there. - FE4 doesn’t have anything in canon, but it *does* have something heavily implied in its non-canonical Oosawa manga adaptation. Lex is *heavily* implied to have a one sided crush on his straight best friend, Azelle, with characters even commenting on how similar it is to Azelle’s explicit one sided crush on another character, Edain. And considering Oosawa had previously penned a BL manga, it definitely seems intentional. - FE5 has two notable instances, though it’s limited thanks to the game not having support conversations. The first is Homeros, the game’s iteration of the series staple manwhore trope, who openly says he’d be willing to bed a guy, not just women. Problematic, but existent. The other is Marty, who is the favored subordinate of the playable brigand boss Dagdar. There’s not much dialogue between the two, but Marty’s ending title is “the man who Dagdar loved.” Also notable is that they’re both extremely muscular bear types, which is a staple in Japanese gay culture and general queer coding for men. - FE6 has no playable queer characters, but it is the first game to have a pair of *heavily* queer coded Berserkers as the boss of a desert chapter, which is a trope the series still uses today. It’s… actually mostly just homophobic, but I figured I’d state it for the record. - FE7 gets juicy, with again, two notable instances. Legault is a thief who’s implied to be bisexual, since he flirts with both male and female characters in his supports. He does write off his flirting as jokes when it doesn’t land in the male supports, though, and he only has a paired endings with the woman he flirts with, but he still reads as bi for it. Also, more evidently, Lucius and Raven basically… are a gay couple. To the extent that when Lucius asks Raven if he was going to get married, Raven tells him he doesn’t need a wife because he has Lucius already. Also, they’re heavily implied to open an orphanage together before FE6, so their paired ending is pushed as well. I’ve also seen people argue for Lyn and Florina as being queer coded as well, though I personally don’t see that one? At least, it doesn’t feel intentional to me like the others do.

[@garfieldkermit]

Thanks for all the feedback!

[@notachargeshot6325]

"I haven't played either of these games."

[@mcdonkey500]

these people in a nutshell

[@federicogou]

Raven and Lucius are my OG gay dads.

[@MattDustyParker]

Good video. Well scripted and edited. I'm hetero, cis, male, all that. While I don't come to FE for queer representation, I watched this in full and was impressed. I'll even say convinced it has its place in this franchise. I don't have a problem with the rising focus on romance. The series has always had it as far as I'm concerned, being one who started with the gba trilogy. If I'm fine with "horny emblem" or whatever people want to label it, I say we might as well have a myriad of romance options on the spectrum. Also really neat point about Prium. I missed him entirely when I played awakening. I happened to read about him a few months back and was intrigued by him being a descendant of Ike. I haven't played the Tellius games so I had no clue about Ike being gay. Sounds like it was done tactfully; I'm fine with this. That one comment mentioning his sister passing down a recessive blue hair gene is onto something. I've been playing Fates for the first time. Conquest classic hard was perfect for me. Birthright hard classic has just been easier so far. When I get to revelations, I wanted to do Male corrin x Niles. Is it really only a conquest path option? I've liked Niles as a character but I haven't seen all his supports so maybe he is more problematic than I realize. I did hear of the perspective of him being "broken" and I agree that isn't the best look. And I totally agree with Rhajat. She need some help 😂. Cheers!

[@mtj8870]

As somebody that has played tellius more times than i can count: priam is a hobo tryna be ike. 1.) Tellius and awakening have completely different teams (tellius being mostly women and awakening being mostly cishet men hence the homophobia and transphobia in its supports). Hell look at the awakening art of ike and micaiah and tell me the awakening devs playes tellius. 2.) Every piece of tellius lore indicates priam being a phony to anyone who has played the games. Such as the two being literal seperate universes with different gods. The ragnell being blessed by two gods and given back to sanaki bc its not ike's sword so how the hell could it decay unless its not the real ragnell. Priam even meets ike and soren in feh forging bonds and doesnt say hey im ur descendant bc he knows he will get called out on it 3.) In reality awakening was the last game in the series and just threw in a bunch descendants of pre existing characters to sell as fanservice such as walhart chrom "priam" and the scrapped roy descendant Ppl rlly neee to stop surrending to homophobes by saying "well he could be mist's descendant" when he's not and is just a dude from the awakening verse

[@foggy8298]

2:32 hilariously, the only choice that’s passionless both ways The awakening writers hated Cordelia and for what? To give severa a shitty mom to hate? Smh

[@grandtactician9801]

I do feel that the Edelgard and Byleth romance is still very much there. While the original Japanese script was a little more direct with mentioning “honeymoon” in their ending, I don’t know if I would say the English script was overall ambiguous about their relationship, especially considering that throughout Crimson Flower, it’s very clearly shown that Edelgard is head over heels for Byleth so I would say that overall she’s still positive queer representation. Overall, great video. I’ll definitely have to give your previous video a watch.

[@helenacrispim3744]

On Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones, even tho they do not have a joined ending, Artur and Cormag become a couple and nothing will ever make me think otherwise. xD

[@lefthandedscout9923]

Fire Emblem hasn't really even done a very good job of depicting straight couples, IMO. While the games have had loads of them in cutscenes and story which are all fine, when it comes to pairing your playable units, they're still fumbling that ball hard with stuff like the hyperbolic baby time chamber in Fates making every first generation character fine with borderline abandoning their children, Byleth having unavoidable implied romance with a student during the Goddess Tower scene pre timeskip (a teacher and a student like that would have a lot of explaining to do IRL), Chrom suddenly proposing to a female Robin in several people's playthroughs and leading to them being forced to pursue a Chrobin playthrough of Awakening out of the blue, when they might've wanted Robin to remain alone or match up with a later character (no offense to Chrobin shippers though, I actually think the game's story works best with Lucina being Robin's daughter myself, but we need to accept not everyone has that opinion and it's pretty silly the game can force you onto that sometimes), and more. I'd personally see it as an improvement if they just axed this sort of stuff entirely until they can learn to do it better. On the side of specifically queer relationships though, Edelgard, female Byleth and Dorothea are all shown to be very unambiguously bisexual in the japanese script of Three Houses to the point of it stating marraige occurs, which I would see as progress if it wasn't for the fact these are all woman, and no man gets the same treatment (except maybe Jeritza, but A - that was post release, and B - there's a lot to unpack with his relationship with either a male or female Byleth, whether platonic or romantic, due to his obsession and other spoilery details). When they do it for the girls but not the guys, it shows pretty clearly that it isn't progressively showing support for queer players, it's just pandering to straight men that like to see twice as many women on screen. At the end of the day, Fire Emblem is a strategy medieval fantasy warsim, and I feel like the creators putting emphasis on love is just worse for the game overall. If they can't get satisfactory showings of matchmaking elements between your characters, queer or otherwise, and have them relate well to the story and gameplay, I don't think it's worth having any of them at all. But hey. Maybe this is just the side of me that's on the aromantic spectrum talking. I hope to be proven wrong and shown they can show topics like this well by the next set of FE titles, but until then...yeah.

[@VangolaGear]

As a trans woman I rather LOVE Rosado. While he may just be a femboy, he is absolutely adorable and his character is all about cute appreciation, which I can entirely get behind. Then again, I’m mostly all for breaking gender roles, so him and Merrin are 2 of my favorite characters.

[@evanpereira3555]

Maybe it's just me and/or the old FE at that time (and how I interact with), but I never could take the idea of Ike being gay seriously (oversaturation over him perhaps I dunno). Ike just seems to doesn't care about those things. If I need to ship him out of spite it will be with Lethe more as beorc-laguz coexistence story-symbolism (and because I like Lethe) than anything. For me he's the kind of guys who can live forever single but also can be with (really) anyone both on a whim or for life. Soren is clearly into him tho.

[@texben123]

Sothius and Byleth technically the same person she pretty much reincarnate into Byleth. And lady Rhea is technically Byeth’s grandmother, Rhea made his/ her mother, or adopted technically mother of her/him. Which would make Rhea Byeth’s grandmother, technically. let’s just say that is a complicated relationship because they’re technically related by blood sort of???? Because Rhea and Byeth’s mother are technically related since they’re both dragons and children of Sothius.

[@Stachelbeeerchen]

Marriage with Rhea will make the family tree into a circle. The perfect incest.

[@Ookamiryoshi]

@1:33 I am once again reminded of the JelloApocalypse stream: "Her personality is *lesbian*"

[@gabrielrussell5531]

A lot of the supports in Engage are just gay as heck like Louis/Alfred and Merrin/Chloé.

[@pancakekaiju1966]

Sheesh- I used to have a fascination with Niles years ago- I hope we'll have a FE game like the older ones with more good queer representations in the future !

[@SemekiIzuio]

Niles is sucha flirt though lol i think he enjoys making people flustered or uncomfortable all the same enjoyment to him... I love his FEH dialogue lines ❤

[@wannabewerewolf9033]

Kinda unfair to skip over Tharja and Libra in Awakening. They’re obviously not without criticism, but they are undeniably present and queer.

[@CASantos]

8:36 gagged them

[@junecrocker]

Fates Birthright was my first Fire Emblem game so I’ll always like it at least a little bit but MAN. Making basically every single heterosexual romance option possible was such a miss. What a weird feature.

[@kyle123456789986]

idk how many people will see this i'll try to make it TLDR but i figured out how the marriage options work in engage since the translation is a mess basically you'd have to go to the wiki find a character thats above 18 years old and when you romance them they put the ring on the ring finger vs everyone else putting it on the middle finger also some characters dont put the ring on at all but i consider their dialouge romantic enough to count personally TLDR version is the list i put together of canon marriages whether gay or straight Males: Pandreo, Louis, Kagetsu, Zelkov, Seadall, Mauvier, Diamant, Amber, Vander, Alfred, Boucheron, Bunet. Females: Yunaka, Panette, Ivy, Timerra, Chloe, Lapis, Merrin, Goldmary, Saffir, Jade. For the DLC its basically everyone besides Madeline but i also didnt look at them too deeply If anyone sees this i hope this helps you at all took me alot of work to figure it out myself over months my least favorite part of this game is the translation and how they made so many units 17 randomly the game would honestly be fixed for me a lot if they just made it most people were 18 and their supports lead to romance compared to what we have now where etie or fogado etc feel off compared to the "canon" marriages list i made with my theory on how this works

[@gingermint1230]

Hoping in a probably far off future (or never) they make Awakening have same sex marriage in a remake. I love Chrobin in all forms, but I really want to be able to marry Male Robin to Chrom. I know the child units play a huge roll in the future past dlc, but not for the main story if at all that much. So I’ll keep hoping… Also Lucina being born could happen even if Male Robin and Chrom marry. There are countless explanations that can be given. Pick your poison.

[@louisst-amand9207]

I feel as though I might be the only one that doesn't care that much about romance in FE games. Less is best, what I want is war.

[@texben123]

Also, Sothis is also Byeth’s ancestor, and the mother of all the dragons with green hair. Including Byeth’s mother, but this is back in medieval times, so dating in your family was actually sort of normal for royalty anyway. and I know further back when Jesus Christ was still around marrying your cousin was sort of normal. also, Abraham from the Bible was married to his sister, so just keep in mind people didn’t know about birth defects yet they just assume it was caused by the devil.

[@ninototo1]

youre way off with the cousin thing, thats still normal in many places

[@texben123]

@@ninototo1 I hate to say this, but I’m not, back then Marring your cousin was normal. and last time I checked Marring your cousin now is still taboo. You can marry your second cousin, but not your first.

[@ninototo1]

@@texben123 Im assuming youre American. Some states such as Alabama, Vermont and California allow it. In other countries like Japan it's widely accepted.

[@texben123]

@@ninototo1 Most of the world still thinks it's taboo, because of birth defects from having children with your sister or cousin that why it's illegal and most countries. And most of society thinks it's gross thats how it's viewed in America and rest of the world. it's always been that way. I never had a problem with it it's just the rest of society thinks it as wrong and taboo. The main point I'm trying to get across is marrying your cousin is still taboo even if it's okay in other countries most of society thinks it's well weird.

[@ninototo1]

@@texben123 You mean most of AMERICAN society. Big difference. Also only first cousins are illegal in America and only in about 50% of States. Second cousins are allowed in every State.

[@ness6099]

I think Priam being added in Awakening is the devs saying they don’t want Ike to be gay/non-binary anymore. I don’t think they had in mind any huge following after PoR did middling so Radiant Dawn writers wanted to do something unique with him. While they were right and Radiant Dawn was niche, Ike suddenly became a household name appearing in Brawl and every Smash game following, making him a household name in games to an extent. After that, they decided they want to go back on those implications, and this and Engage are the results of that (nothing explicit from Ike towards Soren, but still a *bit* of Soren towards Ike). That’s just what the writers wanted/decided back in 2013, but now they have shown a lot of LGBT representation (though mostly in your pretty girl character dating other pretty girls because that’s hot, and they still haven’t touched a trans character since Kyza), I think their attempt at this has been a reasonable success recently, I just think they still write it off as “player freedom” and not actual representation somewhat, since it’s mainly your Avatar self insert being bi and letting you marry whoever (even children…). What I’d like to see is a set explicit relationship that’s integral to the story; a Quan/Ethlyn, a Pent/Louise, etc., a set of characters explicitly together in that way and their interactions reflect that.

[@MattDustyParker]

There's definitely room for a Pent/Louise combo that's not a straight cis couple.

[@EviIM0nk3y]

he was never gay in the first place

[@willrmmerhunter]

Your comment would make sense if there wasnt mistranslation in both the Radiant games and the Awakening one. Not only is it stated Priam is NOT Ike's direct descendant - unless you typically call yourself more or less the descendant of your great grand parent - but they also severally toned down Ike's relationship with Soren and Randulf and randomly made him somewhat interested in girls when in the original version he didnt show even a shadow of interest. Which was the point, the devs wanted Ike to be different and not rince and repeat previous games. Hence the rumoura whether he was supposed to be aro(ace), or gay, or just currently not interested in relationships, etc. Now to be fair, every single FE game should get retranslated, because all western versions more or less severally modifying relationships, characters, dialogues or plot points. It always was and is the norm in FE.

[@ness6099]

@@willrmmerhunter I don’t know what you’re saying… you are the descendant of your grand parent, and even with a mistranslation Ike still has his supports with Elincia and Lethe, so it’s not like that relationship is not there. Also, while Ike saying that Elincia is more than an employer to him is a mistranslation, they do walk off together holding hands at the end, which could be taken any way from someone simply guiding their monarch to romantic implication. The whole thing is a bit of a mess no matter how you put it.

[@willrmmerhunter]

@@ness6099 You are more or less the descendant of your blood uncle, you're more or less the descendant of an adoptive parent, not of a full blooded one. Japanese has a word to state direct descendance and it was not used once in Awakening. If it helps you more, it's like saying you're sort of related to someone. The sort of literally means its indirect relation. Whether Priam is related to Ike colletarily or by being adopted into the bloodline is the actual unknown factor and puzzle behind his existence. Except that hand holding is a political move. Remember the scene with Sephiran prior to it ? Ike gets lectured there. Sephiran just wants to give the people hope for one day and since in stories the hero and the princess tends to get together, he pushes Ike to fake it. That's all that it is in the original version. Remember how I said before they wanted Ike to be different. Subverting that hero/princess trope is literally the point. The two not having a paired ending never was a mistake. Neither is Elincia's sole paired ending with another man. Do you know who Ike has paired endings with ? Men, not women. Whether you want to read into that as friendship or not is up to you. If having supports indicate romatical interest then you're basically saying you support incest, pedophilia and everyone being bi or something ? I suppose not. There's not a single hint of romance when it comes to the girls and Ike in Japanese, I dont see why the thought is this hard to accept. If it further helps, Radiant is literally called the fusho game by the Japanese community (gay game for girls) because of the lack of interest Ike has for the opposite sex.

[@tsukimilo]

Came for Gay Emblem™, stayed for Stellar representation at the end ❤

[@garfieldkermit]

The world wasn't ready for sting!

[@tsukimilo]

​@@garfieldkermitThe world wasn't ready for Stellar period💔, only bop after bop (if we ignore that debut)

[@VuNguyen-fv5jl]

LGBTQ fans gonna be crushed if FE4 Remakes gets announced

[@Accountthatexists]

?

[@cicirosehannigan]

I thought Dimitri was a same sex option

[@RicardoPM777]

👏👏👏

[@dougdoug2469]

Cordelia is best waifu tho

[@athyestic8374]

6:40 Honestly, I think Fates' handling of gay characters is like... the least of its flaws? God Fates is so bad.

[@garfieldkermit]

It was one of my first so I have a soft spot, but it isn't something I'm tempted to return to anytime soon

[@SonicLegends]

@@garfieldkermit The only one I do return to is Conquest for its gameplay and for it having the overall stronger cast of characters with depth and even characters like Arthur and Effie have a place in proving that not everyone in Nohr is messed up in going against the typical Nohrian stereotype, that light in the darkness so to speak so how fitting Elise of all people is their lord given her innocence in not committing anything questionable (also helps the popular Awakening trio kids make a return and get further characterization). There's a reason why Niles despite not being the ideal gay representation was in the top 20 males in the first Choose your Legends for Heroes right next to another favorite of mine Joshua and earning his spot in the Warriors line up as the only Conquest retainer there with Oboro being the only Birthright retainer and she's one of the few exceptions to a not all too goody goody Hoshidan with Saizo (but more importantly they both have good character development which cannot say the same for rest of Birthright cast and man is Hinoka like really bad for one of the royals in terms of popularity for how flat her character was.

[@pancakekaiju1966]

Fates was a mistake-

[@Sublime4217]

I might stop Fire Emblem soon after seeing this video, people really think Ike is gay😵‍💫

[@javaghay]

That’s not what his boyfriend told me

[@yang6642]

This video was the first time you heard of the whole Ike is gay thing? You been living under a rock?

[@Zoeila]

As a lesbian i hated dorothea she only cared about your ability to take care of her financially. Would of gladly traded her for happi or constance. Or igrid how came off as bi curious but felt she had a duty to continue her families bloidline.

[@garfieldkermit]

I can see that, it was a weird choice how the same-sex options for 3H seemed to be chosen so randomly

[@JacobMignano167.]

I ship kjelle and lucina

[@texben123]

I knew, Soren definitely had a thing for Ike, and probably went with him on a journey. But Ike not sure if I felt the same way though. I think he thinks of him as a best friend. Because Ike is the ancestor of all the blue haired protagonist , like Marth, Sigurd, and other blue protagonist or descendants of Ike. Cause I didn’t really think of them as a couple just best friends the games were vague. I knew Soren had feelings for Ike, but he mostly kept it a secret. Because in a medieval times, being gay is sort a taboo so. and this game came out in the early 2000s we’re gay characters were kept vague or censored in video games, anime, and movies.

[@mtj8870]

Did you really just say ike is the ancestor of sigurd marth and others 💀 💀💀

[@trytoo5167]

I just finished it and Ike is a stretch, probably more asexual he gave off sigma energy. Ranulf is a furry so I doubt it and there was some chemistry with I think leif littlesister he could be bi. Soren has some instances where you could argue like how hes stepping in between Amy and Ike all the time.

[@mtj8870]

Dawg the literal tellius writers stated in their own recollections book they feel romantic love for one another and their "hearts become one" in the tower 💀

[@techpriest6962]

Representation = Tokenism

[@Pogma776]

God i hate Rosado

[@Ahsoka_Hyrule]

I'd like to mention that Echoes has another queer character in addition to Lyon! Lukas is 100% aroace, as confirmed by his support with Python and his epilogue. While FE has gay and gender-nonconforming characters sprinkled here and there, Lukas is the only for sure aro/ace one.

[@LinkachuHQ]

I also believe that Python x Forsyth, two more characters from Echoes, can be seen as queer subtext!

[@olly_lmao]

another note on dorothea - her voice actor, Allegra Clark, is queer so yeah

[@rigel_betaorionis8498]

In my head, Priam is actually a direct descendant of Mist, and thus an indirect one of Ike. Idk, it just makes more sense to me. After all, Mist and Ike do share the same blood and dna, so I don't think it's too far streched.

[@qorv4973]

I feel FE missed out on quite a few opportunities like Kaze and Corrin, Byleth and Claude and Dimitri...

[@pancakekaiju1966]

Claude not being a romance option for both Byleth is criminal

[@mihile4631]

@@pancakekaiju1966 Right? And Dimitri, too, because have you seen how much that man adores Byleth, no matter what gender you choose? And at high support levels it's only underlying platonic

[@Stachelbeeerchen]

As an aro I always thought that Ike is my kind of representation. Many women and some males hit on him and hes just like: "You are annoying pls stop." He is definitely somewhere on the aro/ace spectrum. Maybe gay demiromantic. POR and RD are really queer (not very openly sadly) "Lucina's two dads" is canon now and I won't hear otherwise.

[@lancestriker0111]

Same honestly, while the soren ike support and the endings kind of point to gay, Ike's characterization always came off as more aroace than gay to me

[@VuNguyen-fv5jl]

Testosterone flows so much in Ike. Just look how much muscle he packed on in RD. He be clapping Soren’s cheeks nightly

[@wolfofsummerbreeze]

Leon! We love to see a gay guy finally. Unfortunately we still need more non-bishie gay representation.

[@spacelizbian]

I think it's also worth mentioning that Edelgard and Dorothea have an explicitly romantic support together (even if their paired ending isn't explicitly romantic) and that Dorothea has an explicitly romantic support and ending with Petra, who isn't even one of Byleth's same-sex options. And outside of Houses, its spinoff Three Hopes expands on the queer representation, with arguably a majority of the cast being more clearly queer (whether coded or explicit), such as Monica being introduced and being explicitly in love with Edelgard, it being revealed that one of Shamir's exes is a woman, Lysithea's support with F!Shez, and a bunch of stuff with the Blue Lions boys and Yuri that I don't have personal experience with because I'm a Black Eagles girl at my core. I also disagree with the idea that Engage's approach of just making everyone mechanically bi is a step up from the Fodlan games. Yes, it's better than making everyone straight or having only a handful of gay options, but its approach feels more watered down than Fodlan or Tellius, since if you don't want to experience gay content in Engage, you don't have to. If you play as Male Alear, you can avoid any gay content that actually exists in Engage, since the only thing in its main story that's explicitly queer is Ivy's love for Alear regardless of gender.

[@Inspirit-fv3rj]

Priam could be related to Ike. But maybe more to Ikes sister, Mist. I think she can develope a relationship with Boyd so... Priam doesn't prove anything :) btw. still don't get why Claude isn't bisexual, like???

[@e.angelg.caballero1798]

Don't forget Demitri+Dedue and Sylvain+Felix. Even though is not "gay enough" you can totally see Demi+Dedue as a couple, Dedue looked after Demitry till his death and after both died they were buried beside each other and Sylvain+Felix they were so close that people said they passed away the same day "as if conceding that one could not live without the other"

[@texben123]

I hate to say this, but games, and movies and anime and other media are going to keep I guess, gayness vague, and I will change over time. But gay options are just going to be in the background until I guess 5 years from now. I think gay, bisexual, transgender, and binary characters almost to be vague, or representatively positive. But sometimes they’ll be a positive representative or a negative depending on which game you play.🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

[@johnzin6447]

I married Gilbert just so i can be called daddy professor

[@koalaTtime]

This is my kinda content

[@banbanthebandit4002]

Being a Aromantic trans girl I was pleased with engage putting zero emphasis on romance however I was still rather upset that I could not get with Rosado at all, a small price to pay for salvation I guess.

[@garfieldkermit]

The way the English S rank for Rosado plays out will always drive me mad

[@BulbaWhat98]

Is this a re-upload?

[@garfieldkermit]

Yep, i wanted to have the evolution of the queer rep up as its own thing for pride month. I've got some new content coming in July though! :)

[@BulbaWhat98]

@@garfieldkermit neat

[@Tiggster-qr8mw]

subtext isn't a thing