FIRE ROCKETS AREN'T ALL THAT BAD - Total War: Shogun 2! (Top 5 Worst Units Follow-up)

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Welcome to my Top 5 Worst Units Follow-up on Total War: Shogun 2! In this video I explain why it was a mistake to put Fire Rockets in the list of worst units. Turns out they're actually pretty good.
Top 5 Worst Shogun 2 Units: • TOP 5 WORST UNITS - To...
Watch the entire Shogun 2 Top X series: • Top X - Total War: Sho...
Music:
Derek & Brandon Fiechter: / @derekbrandonfiechter
Mods:
Extended Camera Minimod: steamcommunity....
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Want more similar content, have a look at these series:
Shogun 2: Hojo (Legendary): • Let's Play Total War: ...
Shogun 2: Shimazu (Legendary): • Let's Play Total War: ...
Shogun 2: Oda (Legendary): • Let's Play Total War: ...
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Patreon: / mrsmartdonkey
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Total War: Shogun 2 Gameplay Information:
In the darkest age of Japan, endless war leaves a country divided. It is the middle of the 16th Century in Feudal Japan. The country, once ruled by a unified government, is now split into many warring clans. Ten legendary warlords strive for supremacy as conspiracies and conflicts wither the empire. Only one will rise above all to win the heart of a nation as the new shogun...The others will die by his sword.
Take on the role of one Daimyo, the clan leader, and use military engagements, economics and diplomacy to achieve the ultimate goal: re-unite Japan under his supreme command and become the new Shogun - the undisputed ruler of a pacified nation.
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Total War: Shogun 2 Features:
Total War: SHOGUN 2 features enhanced full 3D battles via land and sea, which made a name for the series, as well as the tactical campaign map that many refer to as the heart and soul of Total War. Featuring a brand new AI system inspired by the scriptures that influenced Japanese warfare, the millennia old Chinese “Art of War”, the Creative Assembly brings the wisdom of Master Sun Tsu to Total War: SHOGUN 2. Analysing this ancient text enabled the Creative Assembly to implement easy to understand yet deep strategical gameplay.
CONQUER the islands of Japan in the 16th century. Lead vast armies of samurai and fleets of giant warships into breathtaking real-time battles.
BUILD your kingdom on the inviting and turn-based campaign map. Wield economic, political, and military power to amass wealth, armies, and influence.
SCHEME according to the "Art of War" by Sun Tzu. Use fire and siege tactics, spies and assassins to adapt to the ever-changing conditions on the battlefield and throughout your kingdom.
BATTLE ONLINE and experience the main campaign in two-player mode. Then join epic online battles with up to 8 players and lead your online army to glory in special campaigns.
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For more information on Total War: Shogun 2, check out these links:
Total War: Shogun 2 Official Website: wiki.totalwar.c...
Download Total War: Shogun 2 on Steam: store.steampowe...
Official Total War: Shogun 2 Trailer: • Total War: Shogun 2 - ...
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Total War: Shogun 2 is developed by Creative Assembly.

[@Nihilvidz]

wow, didn't even realize they were that much efficient against cavalry. The damage is insane

[@eriklohmus5700]

"Horse go BOOM"

[@MrSmartDonkeyLP]

That they do.

[@markhirsch6301]

NOOO YOU CANT JUST USE FIRE ROCKETS TO KILL CAV Hojo players:

[@gossamer999]

Recently discovered this guy and notice he has a playlist for every clan on legendary difficulty, at 20-30 mins a video, and 15-20 videos about for every playlist....guess I should order some takeout. I'm not leaving the house for a while.

[@rgpmtori]

2020 here, same.

[@rickjenks2827]

@@rgpmtori Hello fellow friend of lockdown, welcome to the Shogun 2 community i assume through the get now keep forever deal. I hope you have a great long relationship that will turn into an addiction and will probably lead you to other tw games, and that you love them all. :3. If im wrong, then just hi from lockdown lol

[@rgpmtori]

@@rickjenks2827 yep! I already have 133 hours on it lol.

[@rickjenks2827]

@@rgpmtori Yeah.... It gets addicting lol, played all my total wars for at least 100 hours apart from warhammer 2 which was 400

[@Nazdahra]

I mixed these guys in with my lategame Otomo army of mass portugese tercos. I defended a siege with the portugese gunmen and firerockets on the walls. It is quite something to behold when the enemies explode all around in a show of fireworks. In some field battles i emplyed a few european cannons aswell to have that full european army setup, although they are quite useless compared to firerockets. Also, I made sure to recruit firerockets in Buzen, so the accuracy ended up beeing quite decent in the end.

[@VK-sz4it]

Wow, I did exactly the same. But gotta say, an only way this setup is better then traditional army is a siege defence. And still not by a high margin. On a field tercos suck even with +2 armor and nearly maxed out accuracy and insane reloading speed, they loose to monks, they loose to melee units. And sometimes it turns out that unit charging at you is out of their site, so they just go straight to melee.

[@koekiejam18]

I think one of the most powerfull aspects of the fire rockets are the range, even when fighting an offensive battle i can draw out the enemy and force them to charge my spearwalls

[@Tenhys]

0:57 _"In my defence, "Anti-Cav" isn't the first thing you think off when you think "Fire Rockets", right ?"_ Honestly ? No. But not in the sense "i don't expect Fire Rockets to be good against Cav" and more in the sense "i don't expect a 40 rocket salvo to deliver anything else than death to anything it hits." So on the form you're right, since no one take Fire Rocket just to deal with cav, but in general you're wrong because no one would want to miss what is essentially a hero sized bowmen unit with artillery range and explosive AOE projectiles. As for the comparison of overall effectiveness with bowmen is basically a comparison of accuracy + numbers against range + firepower. Bow Samurai and Bow Monk units possess a great deal of precision and are three times the size of a Fire Rocket unit and, uncontrary to them, can shoot arrows upon ennemy units without the need for a firect line of sight. This makes more polyvalent on the battlefield (and even are able to hold their own against melee units for a time in case of Bow Samurai.) Fire Rockets, though possessing great range, lacks accuracy ; taking into account their reloading time, not having more than half of it's projectiles hiting the intended target can be a huge drawback. But when it does hit, the damages are not only severe in terms of casualties but they also deal a serious blow on moral, which can lead to multiple ennemy units routing (should the conditions be favorable for it.) What's more, should the opponent sit on a hill, playing defensively and possessing a great army composition but lacking artillery, the presence of even just one Fire Rocket would effectively force him to two choices : either abandonning his advantageous defensive position and attacking or digging in and letting the Fire Rockets having a target practice with his army's units until his unit's ammo's depleted, inflicting losses without fear of retaliation. In short one unit is a tool of killing, the other is a tool of pressure. As for the con and plus regarding the condition to unlock it through the progression over the technological tree, it is kind of an unfair statement. First, it is normal for the game to be designed in a way that prevents the most powerful units to be rushed in a jiffy. And second, technological progression is linked to the size of your territory, the presence of some specific buildings, some specific event and some character's skills or retainers ; it takes from the player to first fight and conquer lands to get those bonuses, allowing him then to acquire technologies at a faster pace - faster than it would've been had he'd been sitting on his ass in that single province of his. The bottom line being that the pace of technological progression shouldn't be considered as a sound argument at large since if there was a reliable way to obtain it faster then everybody would do it. Otherwise an interesting video as usual. Nice to see you continuating with Shogun 2, by the way. I wish you good ocntinuation.

[@thabigfellah8635]

constructive criticism on a youtube video. what is this.

[@romank9611]

Pace not an argument? Are u serious? If I play anything but domination campaign, I will NEVER get there, cuz it will take about 50 turns (60 regularly, but with some bonuses, mb 45-50) to get there specifically, and i need other research, so it adds up to about 100 turns AT LEAST to get there, not to mention all the buildings needed, by that time u have legendary units and other very effective and more potent units that are not pure anti cav or smth. The only reason to get them is just to mess around and orgasm when they wipe out hundreds of units in a single volley. Other than that and abusing the AI with forcing them to attack, their efficiency/worth is arguably low (high tier bows are better, as u mentioned)

[@henreyeraser3402]

@@romank9611 It really depends on what clan you're playing and what you're going for. If you're playing the Ottomo, you will definitely be close to getting fire rockets. If you're going for gunpowder units, than you'll also be able to get fire rockets quickly. This is why considering the tech tree isn't perfect. It also depends on if you focus the right or left of the tree. Many players focus on chi for economy bonuses, while many others focus on bushido for army bonuses.

[@jaystrickland4151]

I still find fire rockets amazing. Yes you need to use them with archers. put the fire rockets behind the archers. If the AI tries to use archers to attack the fire rockets the fire rockets will get a shot off then the archers will engage the enemy archers. Use the morale breaking arrows and the enemy archers will rout in mass before getting a shot off.

[@colmoe]

Though, honestly, aren't many of these units just Rock,Paper,Scissors

[@AnalyticalReckoner]

MoshedZ yes and no. There are other factors you can use to change it. For example, high ground can help archers take on cav as long as the initial charge doesnt make them rout. Utilize every advantage you can and it wont seem so trinary.

[@cielopachirisu929]

Amazing morale breakers as well. In my experience, a few units that are bombarded with rockets are one shock away from running.

[@JimRFF]

I recall using them extensively in one army I had in a Hojo campaign (I think actually my Daimyo's army and the one that took Kyoto, but I don't remember for sure)... I just had a ridiculous ranged corps: a couple fire rockets, a couple bow monks, a couple matchlock samurai, and the matchlock hero unit... AI stacks route before they could get to melee

[@angelbane1384]

"They just suck."

[@MrSmartDonkeyLP]

Accept it. :P

[@angelbane1384]

I do. I mean i never use them anyways

[@gabriel300010]

gotta love this man

[@redtsun67]

honestly fire rockets are so good, as soon as I get the relevant tech I just start replacing my archers with them. By that time I already have several doomstacks and I mostly just do it for the memes, but they actually are quite good, and enable me to straight up take castles without having to siege them.

[@arminhaddadzadeh3396]

on my hojo campaign I decided to try them out cause of curiosity , it's true it took a long time to get there and I was very pissed cause they made my campaign take around 10 extra years to finish but all changed when I entered the battle I had naginata samurai at the front for tanking the arrows and the enemy archers never targeted my rockets and the moment the stopped moving to shoot their arrows was the moment they died ,my naginata samurai only got hit by a single volley and I tried them in sieges too both offensive and defensive and they destroy everything , every time my enemy's castle was completely on fire ...the only downside they have is their requirements and sadly ammunition that makes you wanna think over which targets to hit in offensive sieges and after that all the gates are destroyed and you don't have to climb walls or take damage from enemy towers

[@shabut]

the anti Calvary element was the only reason Wellington allowed rockets anywhere near his army. Both his and the opponents horses would bolt.

[@playmsbk]

I just finished a Hojo campaign, these guys are mvps. They can melt a general with a single volley or a cav unit with two volleys, their infantry killing potential cannot be understated and they are excellent in both offensive and defensive sieges. Their only flaws imo are the tech requirements and their low ammo, and of course the drawbacks that come with being a low mancount artillery unit. Also, a moment to appreciate hand mortars. Their killing potential is pretty low, but it is not their job to kill. Using them to disorganize enemy archer formations during skirmishes, to stop an enemy charge or to make an opening for a charge of your own is where they shine, not to mention they're probably the only anti-building siege unit in the game that actually works and they're mobile to boot.

[@jaystrickland4151]

they are also great on siege defense. They tend to cause the AI to charge their forces from much father away then they would normally which results in exhausted troops climbing your walls.

[@SGProductions87]

What you also neglect to mention is that fire rockets are ridiculously good for siege defence.

[@deathbysvent]

He mentioned it in the original video.

[@Tryptic214]

Blast, not what I was expecting. Still though, to reiterate my comment on the other video, Fire Rockets are a low accuracy weapon that you build in small numbers, and you obtain them late in the tech tree. As a result, you should already have a province that is able to produce ranged units with max, or close to max, accuracy bonus. Fire Rockets easily double their damage potential with those accuracy bonuses, and shouldn't even be considered without it. With that said, I also have never had a campaign that was remotely competitive by the time I reached Fire Rockets. They're basically a novelty, used mainly for attacking massive AI armies packed into small spaces in an attempt to set a new most-kills-in-one-volley record (mine is somewhere over 200, I forget the specific number)

[@liamenriquez8156]

I remember doing a 1v1 land battle with my friend, he prioritized maximizing the level of his cavalry without expecting me to use Fire Rockets, I easily dispatched his units.

[@user-uz1pj7dc5h]

I watched the worst 5 unit list, played Otomo, and decided to try out a few fire rockets for fun. And holy **** they are fun! They outranged archers by a long margin, blasts everywhere (including my own castle that I'm defending), and deal huge morale shock damage. There are not terrible units at all. But they are just not the go-to units due to their high requirements.

[@AB-rm5lc]

in campaign fire rockets get me 150 kills easy in battles. They're great as an anti bow infantry unit. put two of em behind your infantry line and they'll be able to wreck the enemy archers. They're good in siege battles too. AI parks their general outside the castle walls, well within rocket range, so..

[@SuperCratoss]

Fire Rockets are the reason Hojo clan is my favorit in the game because its so fun to blast away your enemies, followed by Shimazu for Katana samurai and Tokugawa for Kisho Ninja's (Using ninja fix mods)

[@bjorndevlieger8565]

i guess everybody there own way cuz in late game i relly on matchlock units to make up the main front range unit my formation is usualy pike and shot but spiced up with archers behind the spears for extra damage

[@thewanderingdoomed4883]

For me i think that yari samurai are used for charge enemy, just like no Dachi did, they have skill that support them up, and have good armor I even use them while using date, so i can use my yari samurai in the front, and no Dachi in any other side(this is my personal experience)

[@WarPigstheHun]

In my offense against your defense: Fire-anything has always been the bane of cavalry units. But it's ok we forgive you but you can never let it happen again! Ever!

[@DeciValentine]

I agree that the FPMs (Fire projecting magonels) suck but as someone who likes blowing shit up I use em every now and then if I plan on sieging castles. Also, yes I play FOTS but I hate the lack of a threat in that mode. The AI can flip flop but most of my playthroughs the shognate clans stayed loyal. So rip me

[@Shoobadon52]

Hey, props for clarification. Also, love your videos. Great work

[@DeciValentine]

I mean, I use the fire catapulted mostly cause I love seeing the castle walls or anything within the perimeter get blown up. Explosions are fun.

[@CMDRFandragon]

The requirements for Shimazu Heavy Gunners are pretty heavy. I have tried to use them a little and beyond blowing buildings to bits, im having a hard time finding them useful.

[@octopus8420]

I always use them in a double stack to blow a hole in the middle of my enemy's frontline moments before combat - literally a 2 or 3 unit wide hole, right down the middle. For example, I have 3 or 4 Katana samurai on each side as my main line attacking their divided frontline. I have a unit of yari samurai on each side rushing on the outside to flank them/protect my core from getting flanked themselves by the enemy cavalry. In the middle I do the same with either yari samurai or a banzai charge of No dachi samurai. BUT HERE COMES THE BALLER MOVE, it looks and feels so epic, while engaging their main line split in two in Form of a "L," and "J", I send down 3 or 4 yari cav straight down the middle of the frontline to absolutely demolish their bow units and take their general out of action in Form of killing them or just keeping them away from their main line. I even plugged the gap with two match lock units once and they just blaster the open heart of my enemy. And the two fire rockets drift outward on each side sort of to blow up enemy cav that doesn't flank just outside the mainline - where my yari samurai charge - but do the extra wide flank. And ofc my general stands and fights on my side of the two lines right in the middle haha

[@dreysantillan]

Time to recruit me some fire rockets

[@spencerleava2502]

Fire rockets are hilariously OP. You need to max their accuracy. Ignoring siege value, or massing rockets strategically, simply adding a single unit (or preferably 2) can be a game changer: it forces your enemies to make a move because you can always outrange them. Also, archers suck. There is a reason I never build them. Get an armor smith and an armorer, and archers cant touch you.

[@1999ante]

Spencer Leava you speak as if your words have any meaning

[@robertharris6092]

Lol archers suck? Try the bow warrior monks.

[@jcdias6951]

wow, sucks they take to long to acquire.

[@kaelli2892]

Total War Shogun 2 Ultimate Immersive Mod

[@AnthroTsuneon]

Ohhey, I was on a youtubes. Hi mom. That said, it'll always be a case of how you use them, being more of a defensive player, I'd put them over kisho ninja. But yes. They are a massive pain to get and the research argument makes things far more understandable, list wise

[@georgejordan9516]

I like em. Put them behind your army and let them wipe out whole units.

[@skleem4871]

Lol yeah I was watching the video of the charging army get wiped like? What is it Too effective? Lol love u

[@ygbillz8263]

I'm not sure if it happened to anyone else but your thumbnails at the end of the video are switched. When it says 5 worst units the video leads to the 5 best units and vice versa.

[@ygbillz8263]

but if its just me pls do ignore

[@MrSmartDonkeyLP]

Oops, you're right, my bad, shall fix it now :).

[@AnalyticalReckoner]

with max acc they murder generals. My preferred siege weapon actually.

[@majorearl12]

Fire Rockets OP. Ive played a cheat campaign (mostly just tons of money, no upkeep, infinite ammo, and cheap units that even the AI have so really just really insane Shogun 2) and having an army of them is amazing.

[@_aquamarina9308]

i just bring 3 stack of it and some matchlock units... they're taking down entire enemy armys

[@iamplay797]

i like rockets they are great in offensive siege to knock out towers and walls so your archer can kill their archers better etc..usefull unit

[@mikuni9599]

Can please somebody help me with these units? I built an arsenal but i can't upgrade the other gunsmith buildings i have in the other towns so with just 1 arsenal i can only create 2 firerockets per turn and have them walk all the way to where the battle is. Is it possible to have more then 1 arsenal??

[@MrSmartDonkeyLP]

You can only build 1 of each of the highest tier buildings, this goes for basically every building in the game.

[@WuW0w0-m8m]

I would still have one when I have full melee so the enemy charge in to me

[@iseeallforme]

My apologies if I'm making a dumb question, but where is the top 5 worst units in fall of samurai?

[@MrSmartDonkeyLP]

Doesn't exist (yet).

[@Raffix394]

Btw artillery isn't bad either it leads the so to always attack you even if you are the one who is the agressor so you can focus on defence and let the ai taste your yari wall.

[@MrSmartDonkeyLP]

Not worth bringing them for that in my opinion. Gives you 1 less unit that actually does something and it slows down movement on the campaign map dramatically.

[@akriegguardsman]

This is the Japanese version of the katusha

[@mattwells5347]

The ww1 artillery of feudal Japan

[@renks787]

How well do they when using them as a castle defense unit?

[@warvester]

They're expensive, small in number, and have little to no defense. But are useful for whittling away at enemy morale. Refer to Mr.Smartdonkeys vid on top 5 worst units for more info

[@RocketHarry865]

I wonder did the chinese ever developed fire arrows as an anti cavalry ranged weapon against the Nomadic Horsemen of the Northern Steppes

[@RKNGL]

Fire arrows aren't effective for much. You can use them in a siege but then you risk burning down the fort you want to capture. Covering an arrow in pitch makes it more inaccurate and reduces range due to overal weight increase (ignoring possible damage to the arrow). Humans nor horses are especially flammable so all you really did was make your arrows into tracers.

[@robertharris6092]

@@RKNGL not to mention the pitch covering the arrow will basically negate any penetration ability. So armor will just make them bounce off.

[@skyfall_jack2811]

Explosions!!!!

[@ceiling_cat]

There's no excuse! Squad, reload and fire!

[@Raptorsified]

My friends in the comments. Never forget the power of guns and Jesus, otomo way. Rushing arsenal is pretty based

[@kubzov]

WHATS THAT MAPS NAME!?

[@colmoe]

Also, Hojo FR are okay. Replace them with like loan sword ashigaru

[@MrSmartDonkeyLP]

You think Loan Sword Ashigaru are bad? I completely disagree, against AI they're insane since the AI doesn't use Yari Wall very effectively, meaning they will destroy Yari Ashigaru, and since that's the only other early game unit they have a very easy time. They can take on Yari Samurai easily and win as well. I completed my Legendary campaign on the backs of Loan Sword Ashigaru.

[@colmoe]

MrSmartDonkeyLP Maybe because I haven't played Vanilla Legendary in a long time, I just find that Loan sword are less cost effective early game, and by mid game, I should already have Katana Sam. I use fire rockets a lot as JoJo, but that may be from realism-like mods, expanded Japan and Darthmod all combined. I guess I just haven't played Vanilla in a long enough time. Maybe you have, I find Yari Ash to be just as useful when needed, and loan sword are just a cheaper, worse Katana Sam. Just my thoughts, no offence to your experience meant...everyone has different opinions.

[@AmericanFluff]

You should bring back donkey's battle royale

[@Nabilbasthomy]

Well I use fire rocket too kill general and sacrifice my unit lol

[@JonatasAdoM]

It's actually the first thing that comes to my mind. Artillery is an anti cav unit both on ETW, NTW AND FOT.

[@Bismarck11139]

Hi; my name is Mistersmardonkey

[@Big_Dai]

When a content creator has to make a clarification video on a previous awful mistake on the game they supposedly understand, they lose all credibility..

[@akfrost]

Donkey, I think you second-guessed yourself a bit too fast there. Leaving aside the tech tree considerations, fire rockets only "counter" "cavalry" 1v1. Not even 1 to 1. How it works is one unit of fire rockets will do enough damage so the cavalry unit will rout. But in a multiple unit battle, fire rockets tend to focus fire meaning they'll absolutely destroy a few cav units and leave others mostly unscathed, and they do not have enough range for a second volley meaning they're free food for the remainder. I'm also under the impression that in multi-unit battles units don't rout as easily, meaning even if you perfectly micro your rockets so they each hit one different unit, not all of them will rout, and then you're screwed. Also, they can't even beat the hero cavs 1v1 due to their shock resistance, even though they're late and costly enough to almost be hero units themselves. Lastly, they can pretty much be replaced on a 1 to 1 basis by Yari Ashigaru, if not more. 10 units fire rockets will lose to 10 units takeda fire cav, but 10 units of yari ashigaru will mop the floor with them. People mentioned you could snipe generals with them, but so can ninjas, which costs less to hire and nothing to maintain, only a fee when you actually need their services.

[@robertharris6092]

Its called a combat force multiplier. Just like the modern day 40mm grenades soldiers are given. They dont perform well in a majority of instances. Or at least not for the whole duration your active. But in the time they are effective they are unmatched in their value and effectiveness.

[@akfrost]

Except "the time they are effective" literally don't exist in the SP campaign... Even in this video they're only shown owning light cavalry, which costs a quarter of the fire rockets. On top of that, it's not that common of a unit to be seen employed by the AI other than generals, which they don't have a lot of and as I said could be easily taken out by ninja instead. If they actually have a stack of cavalry, your stack of fire rockets will lose hard, despite being more costly and higher on the tech tree. You know what will own a stack of cavalry at an eighth of the cost and is available all the time? A stack of Yari Ashigaru.

[@robertharris6092]

@@akfrost uh. They can do a lot more then kill cavalry. Like destroy gates or towers so your men dont need to take 30+ losses to take/destroy them. Or simply destroy their general constantly (kisho ninjas are aboslutly worthless. Just like all the hero units in the game are with far too low of numbers) the yari ashigaru are also near useless against higher tier units like samurai. Especially naginata samurai.

[@akfrost]

1. You shouldn't be attacking gates or towers to begin with. Always siege them out. 2. I'm not talking about kisho ninja, I'm talking about the campaign ninja, using assassination. 3. Try Yari wall, you'll be surprised, especially if your ashigaru has experience.

[@ElDeano09]

Few years too late, but I really like your Shogun videos. Nice work.