Firefox Tracking Users Before Install! - Surveillance Report 80

[@techlore]

SR80 Sources: github.com/techlore/channel-content/blob/master/Surveillance%20Report%20Sources/SR80.md 00:00 Introduction 00:19 Important Announcement! 01:10 Highlight Story (Firefox Tracking Installs) 05:02 Data Breaches 08:32 Companies 14:33 Research 18:52 Politics 22:02 FOSS 27:52 Misfits 32:22 Important Announcement!

[@Seskavar]

Look into the TransUnion data breach in South Africa. It hasn’t really hit international press but it’s a major hack with crazy ransom/blackmail components to it.

[@Battezu]

Sometimes I question if Mozilla is trying to kill Firefox. Their primary user base is "power users", but they never stop doing things like this that (I'd like to assume) most would be against. It just baffles me.

[@AwesomeBlackDude]

Look like a promote commercials in this threads. You guys need to watch "The Maverick Of Wall Street" and skip all that. 😬

[@JaffaGaffa]

@@AwesomeBlackDude but, but "MR Peterson Robert" /S

[@JaffaGaffa]

@@AwesomeBlackDude Their channels where all created within 2-3 weeks in spring 2021. Ill bett there are 179.7 M others like them, from 2021 alone

[@AwesomeBlackDude]

@@JaffaGaffa Joined Oct 19, 2018

[@yeetyeet7070]

Honestly, probably. There is probably people on the board who are paid by Google.

[@AwakenedPhoenix309]

It's the lack of transparency and the difficulty of opting out that bothers me with tracking. I do not see telemetry as inherently evil. In fact, I think the fact so many Linux users are zealously against it hurts their cause. I guarantee you that Linux is a bigger segment of the market than usage statistics show. I'd estimate desktop usage is at least 5-6% in the desktop world. Not huge, but far more than the 1% or 2% that the numbers bear out - and enough to tip the scales in favor of providing better support for it. But because so many who use Linux are so concerned about tracking of any kind, the ones that care about seeing Linux adopted on a bigger scale are shooting themselves in the foot. At the same time - when you hear stuff like this about Firefox, it's hard to blame them. If you're a privacy crank, odds are good you will only be vindicated. If you're not going all out with Qubes, Graphene OS and Tails, you are almost certainly using something that is tracking you and that could potentially leak sensitive data. It's hard to know how to strike the right balance. I think the people who throw up their hands and let big tech collect all the data it wants are foolish, but outside of making modern life extremely inconvenient for yourself, there's only so much you can do to mitigate data collection. I use Linux. I've degoogled my phone. I use AdNauseum on my browsers. I'm working on dumping my Google account. But I still use Discord. I still use Chromium-based browsers. I can think of several holes in my current setup. I think big companies are gathering a lot less data on me than they used to, but I know security is a journey - not a destination. If I want to function in the modern world, I'll have to make some concessions. I just think it's important to know where and how I'm making them. If nothing else this tells me I want to make as little use of FireFox as possible, but that raises a problem - I don't like that most alternatives are Chromium-based. There's a severe lack of competition in the browser realm right now. That's a security timebomb waiting to go off. I don't know the solution to that.

[@markpetersen290]

You brought up a good point about non-chromium based browsers (besides firefox), and I realized I don't know of any since IE has been discontinued. I found a couple firefox based browsers, but filtering those out _just in case_, I found NetSurf, Pale Moon, and GNOME Web.

[@mjouwbuis]

I'm using Firefox on Windows and find telemetry like this, quite ridiculous. I think this is a bipartisan issue.

[@AwakenedPhoenix309]

@@mjouwbuis Oh, it is - I would still be using Windows if it wasn't for the telemetry, the ads, and the fact that Windows has no respect for my filesystem. While I would advise anyone who cares about these things to jump ship from Windows, I understand that's not going to be feasible for everyone. (Although I'd still recommend putting Linux Mint or Fedora Silverblue on a low spec/secondary machine just for banking and anything one considers sensitive - I don't trust Windows security at all. If they can get in and spy on me and alter my file system at will, anyone with the right knowledge can, too.) I'd consider it a win if ALL big tech companies started thinking twice about invasive telemetry. In all honesty, the only thing I have ever asked for is for it to be opt in rather than opt out and for that choice to be respected. It boggles my mind that it's legal to do otherwise.

[@Foche_T._Schitt]

Google asked me to enter my Bday. I ignored it. I figured when I'm ready to terminate my account I'll tell them I'm 9 and then they'll have to purge all of my data because they can't legally keep it stored.

[@nedludd7622]

I just choose a date that I can easily remember and has nothing do to with anything in my life.

[@murtadha96]

Modern problems require modern solutions

[@accountname1047]

They installed a CEO many many years ago that tried to crush mozillas privacy standards, and were forced to backtrack because no one wanted it. It was then I knew firefox was dead.

[@recklessroges]

Mitchell Baker converted Mozilla from a project to a product, and is wildly over paid for that destruction. (Not quite a crime against humanity, but not far from it.) She's basically a Google stooge at this point, being paid to ensure that Google Chrome doesn't get hit with the same anti-trust that was targeted at Microsoft IE.

[@pelic9608]

And that's why you go to Brave, if you liked Firefox. Good ol' Brandon smelled the rot in 2015 and left. 🤷‍♂️

[@bilbowagons1407]

@@pelic9608 i keep hearing brave mentioned as the best Firefox alternative but what actually are the benefits of it? It seems to just be a different browser that’s not firefox or chrome

[@pelic9608]

@@bilbowagons1407 This channel sucks so much... I can't even answer you, because I used some no-no word. Jesus Christ... I'll keep trying. (5x; I swear, I'm about to write some tool that only posts an id in YT comments and saves the actual text somewhere else 😄)

[@АнатолийАнатолий-п1д]

​@@pelic9608, I don't think it's the channel, searx for 'youtube bot comments disappear', you'll find a lot of info about the YT bot that apparently works everywhere and auto-deletes comments based on total bullshit scan. If you post it and a few seconds or a minute later you open a link to the comment again and the comment is not there - it was the bot. There were a lot of complaints to YT about that, but they just don't give a fuck.

[@antux5183]

Only to add: New Pipe for mobile, Freetube for Win, Mac and Linux. Invidious is decentralized. Great work, Henry and Nate, Thank you!

[@hoojooo1536]

Can you make a update video on search engines for privacy

[@mrcvry]

Startpage is good too.

[@macktheripper7454]

Startpage my dude

[@nostep3966]

Brave or Searx....Startpage is owned by an advertising company

[@nostep3966]

@@gravityfallscanada searx kzbin.info/www/bejne/oaXbpoeEorqWgq8m6s

[@louaguado995]

Tor, or Brave

[@Battezu]

I'd love to update my phone on time. But unfortunately I'm stuck on an old Android that can't go past 8.0 because no government is willing to outlaw (or even mitigate) planned obsolescence.

[@valeriehancotte-galan4790]

Don't update. Constant updates is part of the planned obsolescence

[@Battezu]

@@valeriehancotte-galan4790 Yeah, to an extent. Unfortunately the last security patch for my phone was years ago and that's unavoidably important. Currently saving up to buy a newer, but used, phone with some more protections.

[@thaik56]

Install a custom rom.

[@max_harwell]

@@thaik56 locked bootloader with no known exploits to unlock it moment.

[@АнатолийАнатолий-п1д]

​@@max_harwell, then next time (you're Sashalasa from different account?) buy a phone that allows for a custom ROM.

[@eldrago19]

Windows: before you start using this, here are 5 different types of telemetry you have to decide on. Firefox: good luck finding the privacy settings!

[@keyboard_g]

MOU = Memorandum of Understanding. Basically a document which is non-binding saying they all agree.

[@sloth6480]

One of those people who ditched Firefox years and years ago. Haven't gone back.

[@DaPanda19]

LOVE that I flashed Open WRT to my TP-Link router as soon as I got it home! Also running pi-hole and hoping that helps but time to investigate!

[@dogbreth7]

Let me know how it is :) I’ve been thinking of trying out OpenWRT on my tplink router as well

[@DaPanda19]

@@dogbreth7 it's been about 3 months, and no complaints!

[@redeyesdrogon786]

Great reporting this week. Keep up the good work!

[@autonaut279]

once you go unlimited... impossible going back. from distro hopping to learning a bunch on software/web development. unlimited really should be cheaper and more accessible. it's been such a big life changer !

[@fabricio4794]

How i Block Firefox

[@eprohoda]

Techlore-excellent ,👐

[@StiekemeHenk]

Please let us know what your next browser of choice will be!

[@steve-yq7sb]

Dude your sttraightupness and comment of its just a swinging contest. You got 6000 kudos in my book. I love directness

[@oliviadrinkwine1411]

Me I personally scambait the scammers for as long as I possibly can. So others have a less chance of getting scammed. + it's just hilarious to hear the reactions

[@TheDirge69]

Me too I have had a lot of fun wasting their time!

[@DanishMule]

Some people are probably gonna disagree with me, and that is fine. But! Honestly being freaked out about the FF trying to figure out why the have more installs than download etc.. isn't really something to freak out about. IMO it's the data afterwords that's scary. Maybe if we didn't freak out over the smallest things? :)

[@tryitout7435]

Nathan, same boat as you. I feel like this is egregious enough to make me want to stop using FF, but don't like using chromium based browsers, but I do think I'm going to switch to brave. I always have brave installed anyways for the rare occasion when my plugins in FF cause issues or whatever.

[@jeffreyfalcon243]

Why not use Librewolf instead?

[@DuckcuD]

@@jeffreyfalcon243 Librewolf is pretty bad ngl

[@jeffreyfalcon243]

@@DuckcuD how’s that? Out of the box, it’s like a pre-hardened firefox without the telemetry.

[@tryitout7435]

@@jeffreyfalcon243 I am not familiar with it, I am famiiar with brave. I will have to check if certain add-ons (keepass) are supported. thanks for the suggestion

[@danzee9875]

does installing Firefox from a package manager in Linux bypass this download install tracking?

[@Battezu]

The article seems to indicate it's only when downloaded from the FF site 'Download' page.

[@recklessroges]

It might, but I've installed librewolf which guarantees no tracking.

[@13Hangfire]

Subscribed to SR!

[@rayfordreed9304]

Listening on Vanced

[@intensivecareunitpee5838]

cool conversation near the end.

[@timocarliermusic]

When I search for "Surveillance Report" on YT, the new channel doesn't show up as one of the hits! I had to use the link below the video here.

[@techlore]

It doesn't have any videos.

[@timocarliermusic]

@@techlore It might be worth posting a tiny snippet or a previous episode, so people can find it easily. I mostly listen to audio, and just did a search for 'Surveillance Report' on YT to support you with a sub. When I couldn't find it, I was going to leave it, but then had a look at the show notes on your current YT channel, and found the link there, but some listeners may not take that extra step.

[@realJohnJohn]

I got a new computer and I will usually install Firefox and others but now after hearing this, no more Firefox

[@arkvsi8142]

What are you gonna install? GOOGLE, CHROME??????

[@rkvkydqf]

@@arkvsi8142 Or a Chromium with a privacy pinky promise?

[@realJohnJohn]

@@arkvsi8142 Started to use Brave... but looking for better...

[@realJohnJohn]

waterfox, but heard its own by marketing agency... :(

[@ANGELRA]

The youtube vanced team created posted on telegram that they were shut down for trademark reasons, the name and the logo. I love new pipe, but vanced was better because it was using microg to connect to your google account. It's not as private as new pipe, but this feature is essential for an alternative youtube client to succed.

[@skildfrix]

people who went to that cafe offering free coffee in exchange for their personal data made an expensive mistake

[@arir43]

It would be great if these came to podcast platforms at some point.

[@techlore]

They all are. Check the description.

[@arir43]

@@techlore Oh, thanks. I just missed the link the first time I checked.

[@Epic_C]

This has been going on for a while. Each time you download, you'll know because each download has a different SHA256. I would stick to downloading the MSI ESR version.

[@tylerhenson1730]

I see multiple comments about people using Brave instead, but … really? I don’t see how Brave is a better choice, especially after instituting basically their own tracking/ads network. I don’t remember the details but their CEO is/was tied closely to sketchy things. Maybe those are all troll comments, I don’t know, but if not….then, lol, Brave’s marketing team is doing a good job.

[@dansnickles]

Is Majeek browser good to use?

[@Battezu]

I cannot find a browser called Majeek. If you mean Mojeek, I wouldn't recommend using their browser, but their search engine is (on paper) one of the most private options (though it has less than stellar results). Bromite is a widely recommended browser for Android.

[@dansnickles]

@@Battezu Thanks I will install Bromite.

[@agustingomez1575]

Great work guys!

[@Jeal0usJelly]

21:15 MOU means Memorandum Of Understanding

[@facelessspirit]

Do you suggest Librewolf over Firefox, or whats the best alternatives? I stopped using firefox years ago...then started back again in 2019...so...here we go again.

[@fgsaramago]

If you want to avoid chromium, librewolf is nice but maybe you have to relax some of the settings for usability's sake and it doesnt auto update on windows. Waterfox is more user friendly in that its basically as private as one can be without making usability compromises and it also auto updates on windows, unlike librewolf

[@facelessspirit]

@@fgsaramago Appreciate it...Thank you.

[@mendelsphotography]

How safe And Private Is saymine? Whuld you recommend someone use it?

[@macboogieland2897]

regarding firefox, can somebody please clarify what has previously been recommended to turn off/opt out of?

[@techlore]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fGiQk4porpufmas

[@Cornnugget4]

Henry - sorry to post this here just not sure best way to ask you questions (imagine you're swamped). Just purchased the premium GI course (primarily b/c interested in crypto). Do you feel like we need to undertake a comprehensive digital cleanup / privacy do-over / go-incognito life plan BEFORE we purchase crypto anon / non-KYC? I know that would be ideal but ... I am in the process of doing all of this (through your course and other resources) but also want to purchase crypto ASAP. All of that cleanup will take time. Can I do part of retroactive cleanup after purchasing (assuming I establish "clean" credentials i.e. proton / throwaway emails, burner number, purchase on DEX, etc.)? Also going to be getting rid of this gmail / YT alias (otherwise wouldn't have commented above).

[@marknrogers]

Bye bye FF!

[@rkvkydqf]

And what are you going to use? Rebranded Chromium?

[@fgsaramago]

I keep hearing Americans complain about robocalls. Is it really a problem? Theyre virtually unheard of here in Portugal, theres a very limited number of circumstances where a non human/machine is legally allowed to call you, namely to deliver 2fa codes (if for some reason you can receive them any other way)

[@bobbyjohnson116]

What puts a person or organization at greater risk a vulnerability or a zero-day?

[@I_Was_Chrispy_Kreme]

Noob question but if you install Firefox from flathub or Ubuntu repositories can they still track the download?

[@rkvkydqf]

It's just the installer from the website.

[@I_Was_Chrispy_Kreme]

@@rkvkydqf thanks. I was thinking if they had managed to inject it to the repos everyone would have the same code so it would be useless

[@jakekirkpatrick1357]

The internet tracks you the second your pc or phone connects...has nothing to do with what browser you use...its more to do with your isp and ip address...

[@BriefNerdOriginal]

I am one of the few using Firefox on all devices because of blind trust. I start to think I'll switch to Brave or other alternatives

[@canabitter]

MoU stands for Memorandum of Understanding

[@poetrydlove]

Nice one guys

[@djsaekrakem3608]

once they killed firefox os I knew they were in the pockets of big tech. ITS OBVIOUS. NEW OPERATING SSYTEM??? A NEW BACKDOOR IS REQUIRED! :\

[@virgonc23]

OK so Not Firefox So what now which browser?

[@wayneholzer4694]

I heard Microsoft are going to be soon serving up ads in File Explorer which is concerning they are looking at our data it was seen in a a insider build but redacted but if it does happen I will be going back to Slackware full time from Windows 11 and only use Windows for Windows apps that won't run in Linux

[@gypsypath1]

MOU = Memorandum of Understanding. It is a type of contract.

[@kefka900]

I always use ninite... that strip the data?

[@flazryuful]

MOU - Memorandum of Understanding It's more than a gentleman's handshake, but less than a formal contract. A few uses I've seen for them. One is to create the framework of a contract. The other is within large companies to create interdepartmental agreements for projects and who will do what on it. Finally between smaller companies that don't want or need a formal contract to work together on something, but need to have a solid understanding of who's going to do what for it.

[@americo2]

You'll need to talk a bit slow, 'cause it's hard for us in Brazil to understand everything! Thank you!

[@Battezu]

Not perfect, but you can slow down KZbin videos in your own browser. Also, it seems you have a decent enough grasp on English, you could turn on the subtitles. They're auto-generated, so sometimes wrong, but mostly accurate.

[@americo2]

@@Battezu Thank you very much, I'll try next time.

[@addy7445]

Fun fact- We get 2GB per day 4G data + unlimited voice + 100sms per day for just 5 dollars per month here in India😂

[@Jose04537]

People care much more about the privacy of their health because that info can be used to discriminate.

[@АнатолийАнатолий-п1д]

How is Qutebrowser in terms of Priv/Sec/Anon?

[@АнатолийАнатолий-п1д]

Please, can you tell us about Qutebrowser? It rocks in terms of features, other browsers be like "We are private, but that's the only feature we have, try our new shiny backgrounds for your tab bar" or "we said we are a browser, but in reality we are an OS inside a browser, check out our new shiny cAlCulAtOr, it's between the calendar and rss feed, but under the mail client, and we also have a window manager inside a browser window managed by a window manager, how cool is that?!", but Qutebrowser isn't, it's feature-rich and at the same time doesn't implement features only for particular cases, it tries to cover all possible use-cases by making the features friendly and open to other software, and it doesn't try to keep you inside the browser, it understands that it's a browser and not an OS and encourages your other applications to do their work while it does its own. Khem. So, the browser is cool in terms of features and I've got carried away a little because of that, but my main question is - how secure is it? It would be nice to know what you think of it in terms of Privacy & Security & Anonymity. And ideally compare it to Brave in that regard. --- This comment was written in INSERT mode of my favourite browser Qutebrowser

[@АнатолийАнатолий-п1д]

^ the YT bot deletes my comment above, had to repost it

[@DuckcuD]

looks like its yet another nail in FF's coffin..

[@sauliusjance6300]

I noticed months ago that Firefox was acting creepy...

[@RemotHuman]

Vanced was great... Ad whitelist per channel, return youtube dislike, sponsor block, custom controls, I was able to disable notifications and still ring the bell, oh right the ability to actually play videos if your phone screen is off...

[@Stratigoz]

Does anyone having issues with the new firefox not saving site preferences like KZbin or Twitch video quality? It even happens when you open new tab w/o closing the browser. I download the older version and it works fine btw.

[@JudgeD-hc9vw]

Rumble please

[@JubalBed]

What are the best Firefox engine browsers?

[@moosiemoose1337]

Brave Browser is here for you all.

[@ondeexistirumestatistaeues9566]

no

[@fabricio4794]

TÜR

[@theonlyasher]

@@ondeexistirumestatistaeues9566 any particular reason?

[@itsnothimorisit]

No

[@yeetyeet7070]

definitely the second best browser.

[@meroyado7555]

Is it safe to give facebook apps storage permission or not?

[@John-Smith02]

Can you do a review of Hey Email?

[@Wilco2998]

with firefox doing this let me decide to use waterfox instead

[@doyen86]

They're getting rid of VANCED?? NOOO!

[@squidikka]

As soon as they hilariously changed that master and slave terminology for the sake of woke pandering I knew it was over. Discord is suffering the same fate as well and has its own privacy issues in the guise of arbitrary moral policing.

[@bw3450]

MOU - Memorandum of Understanding

[@MyMy-tv7fd]

YOWSER

[@fabricio4794]

Nervowser

[@8sourceenergy895]

👍👍

[@im1random263]

But google didnt say that the id or drivers license has to be a real one 😅

[@GG-ed2dm]

Henry are you looking for moderators

[@hocaspocas1949]

Can you do a video about firewalls?

[@EvaDuartePeron]

Every program, every app the first thing I do is checking every data boxes returning data to the company..crash reports, let us help you, seedy websites, etc.

[@gypsypath1]

I would rather just watch videos on a different platform than _ever_ give Google an ID.

[@jdee9117]

Use vivaldi and brave browser

[@recklessroges]

(Not that it matters) wight is pronounced the same as white.

[@scottmiller2591]

google-analytics is not your friend.

[@guilherme5094]

👍

[@RemotHuman]

How do they have 10 billion faces, there arnt 10billiom people on earth

[@TheDirge69]

The Firefox unique ID is not surprising, software bought has a serial number for registration, so is this not the same thing? Am I missing something?

[@rkvkydqf]

It's even more minor. When you downloaded it from the official site, it added a download ID to the installer. It's just a temporary ID to see if the installer was opened right after the download or if a user stored it for later use.

[@kras_mazov]

They see installs because apt-get install firefox

[@Apeiron242]

Brave > Firefox

[@asdfderp128]

first noti gang

[@zyxwvutsrqponmlkh]

I stopped using fire fox once they outed themselves as being oppressively woke.

[@MichaelGolpe]

Take a look at Pale Moon browser

[@rkvkydqf]

Are you sure an ancient Firefox fork with an overworked dev-team and plenty of spaghetti code from path cherry-picking isn't a security and usability nightmare?

[@MichaelGolpe]

@@alphaursaeminoris1 that’s still active?

[@MichaelGolpe]

@@rkvkydqf I’ll look into it from that perspective, I usually try to look at things from many pov’s, but hadn’t on that because I don’t trust Firefox at all.

[@gypsypath1]

But your Purism phone is not for watching KZbin videos or doing other high data activities - it’s for staying untracked. YMMV.

[@pelic9608]

11:45 - "Set yourself to Germany [to go around KZbin age verification].", hahaha; yeah; no.

[@My_Old_YT_Account]

Yeah, the smarter choices for Australia would probably be New Zealand or Indonesia

[@pelic9608]

@@My_Old_YT_Account My point is that Germany was one of the first to force you to verify your age.

[@tiredofeverythingnew]

The whale music get annoying really fast

[@Lu_vvv]

And we still use KZbin talking about privacy.

[@IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII258]

You guys sound a BIT too apologetic about Firefox tracking users (and anyone they share their download with, from the sound of the details). I'm thinking how wonderful Firefox is for Russia and China to watch unique download keys spread from free speech advocate to free speech advocate over their networks. This is the meta-data we all got so angry with the NSA about, and "it's not so bad" is a bad hot take.

[@RockawayCCW]

Firefox should change it's name to "Dumpster Fire."

[@snowflakemelter7171]

Bromite browser is a good alternative.

[@Battezu]

Unfortunately not on desktop.

[@tijl8090]

100e like!

[@slusheewolf2143]

I'm a furry in the furry fandom. We have chats where people share nudes, and some of the admins request real IDs to verify age; I'm 28 years old. I understand the philosophy. No one in those chats wants minors in them, including myself. But when you trust others to store THAT kinda sensitive data, it could be kept as blackmail against you. I can't trust that YOU will keep sensitive info like that safe, so if YT starts doing that in America, bye. I'd have an actual reason to delete Google completely because I only use a Google account for KZbin.

[@0deepak]

23:25 Unfortunately? Why are creators like you supporting a KZbin ad blocking service? It’s incredibly scummy to block ads and leach off Google’s servers for free. Not to mention that creators like you won’t get paid either. I subscribed to YT premium since I hate ads.

[@0deepak]

KZbin ads do not have any malware so I really can’t support them.

[@SpareSomeChange8080]

So what? It's not scummy, Google are one of the richest companies on the planet. It doesn't matter if we cherry pick the best bits of their service and block the worst bits. They steal your data regardless whether you pay for their service or block their adverts.

[@0deepak]

@@SpareSomeChange8080 So how will creators get paid? Do you financially support all the channels that you watch? Ad revenue is one of most consistent and one of the highest revenue generators for content creators.

[@SpareSomeChange8080]

@@0deepak I don't support them no, the best ones usually have sponsors and cuts Google out of the picture entirely, because KZbin demonetises people for no reason.