First Impressions of Naniwa Pro/Chosera 800 and 3000 (Tojiro DP 170mm Santoku in VG-10)

The naniwa choseras are considered by many to be the epitome of sharpening stones. They are high end alumina splash-and-go stones with a high price tag. Fortunately, the Burrfection shop offers a combo set of the 800/3000 for a great price of $138 vs. $80 + $132 = $212 individually. A major part of how that bargain is reached is by reduced the overall thickness of both stones to 15mm on the combo compared to 20mm on the standard stones. Everything else is absolutely identical. They are very hard and long lasting so the reduced thickness will not be an issue for anyone other than true pro sharpeners that see 1,000s of knives per year.
Initial impressions on 60HRc VG-10 is very positive. The 800 speed lands between the King neo 800 and Nanohone 1K being closer to the King. The finish looks similar to the King, being a clean cloudy look and relatively fine. I've found with both of these stones that they give an edge that is similar to a heavy handed 1K while cutting A LOT faster. The feedback is definitely discernable but does not jump out at you while sharpening so you will have to pay attention.
The 3K cleaned up the 800grit scratches very easily and quickly. Similar feedback but proportionally less than the 800. Leaves a not quite mirror. It's similar to the Shapton Pro 5K with better feedback and slightly faster cutting while sacrificing burr reduction and polishing.
Overall its a great combo and the feedback, speed and hardness of the 800 make for a great sweet spot between the King Neo 800 and Nanohone 1K. I like the 3K but have to keep sharpening on it to develop a complete opinion.

[@roospike]

Sharpening Stones: AKA Rabbit Hole ✌ 😂 Once I start doing some research I knew that's exactly where that was going to go, so for me instead of trying to figure out the real grit of each Stone from each company I just stayed with one and bought a whole series trying to avoid crossing the same grit from different companies but number differently. Sharpal double-sided diamond: 320/1200 Shapton Pro: 120, 320, 1k, 1500, 2k, 5k, 12/15k Doing research on the 8K I decided to pass until I got used to existing stones and I still haven't bought one, I think I'm fine without it.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

The deepest rabbit hole! How does that 1500 SP get used considering you also have the 1K and 2K?

[@roospike]

@@EngineersPerspective701 I bought the 1k & 2k originally then added the 1500 afterwards finding out myself that the 1000 was more like an 800grit so thought maybe it would fit a fine-tuning gap. I seen it mentioned that the 1500 was more designed for carbon steel but my AG super knives don't necessarily like it but we're talkin 64-65 rockwell. It's okay but it doesn't have the feel/feedback the other stones have and actually feels more like a 5k. If I did it over again I wouldn't buy the 1500, I have many Japanese knives and the German steals are more in line with/for the 1500 imho.

[@robertmunguia250]

Nice! I ordered the chosera 800 and based on reviews from Amazon it does pretty good. Except through some videos they say it starts to crack? No warranty on it. But I need something that will cut fast. Any other recommendations?

[@EngineersPerspective701]

They can be more susceptible to cracking if left in water or dried rapidly but I’ve never had a problem leaving on the drying pad in the kitchen In terms of speed this may leave you wanting more. Personally I much prefer the king neo but that requires a lot more flattening and is SiC based. I haven’t found an alumina one I like yet but I want to try some of the Shapton pros and glass series in that range next

[@arctic3032]

I got Naniwa pro/chosera 400 and a 1000/3000 combination stone for 135$. Love 'em to bits.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

Great deal! What do yo think of the 400 specifically? I'm interested in picking one up

[@arctic3032]

@@EngineersPerspective701 the 400 is very aggressive, just as it should be. Very tactile feedback. Used it on a well worn Condor Bushlore. After 3-4 strokes it was rejuvenated. Well worth the money.

[@kabes1776]

6:14 How were you able to tell what angle youve been sharpening at by looking at the edge

[@EngineersPerspective701]

Not so much from looking but feel. I roughly know what an angle feels like from experience You can roughly judge an angle of the bevel is extremely thin relative to the thickness being the edge

[@nikobobich9726]

the chosera pro 3000 is amazing I have one also for finishing it does a real good job there is a reason why the pros in japan use it

[@EngineersPerspective701]

One of my go to stones for sure! It’s like an old reliable friend!

[@whocares3986]

Did you lap the stones at first or sharpen straight away? A lot of stones come with a bit of a film/skin on them. They seem to do better after removing it. I would love to try the King Neo. It's silicon carbide isn't it?

[@EngineersPerspective701]

Agreed and yes I did, 140grit diamond plate that is very worn. The Neo is SiC and it cuts like a beast! It's way faster than most 800s and finishes way nicer. I think that's due both to the SiC and because it does break down a decent amount. Wouldn't call it muddy necessarily.

[@georgeyoung4292]

These dont come with film.. I have original choseras and i went to sharpening straight away and zero load up, perfect feedback.. Shapton Pro/Kuromaku has thick skin (in fact i hated the stone at first cause i lapped it 2times before the stone started to really perform..

[@EngineersPerspective701]

@@georgeyoung4292 Same experience on the Kuromaku. Now I actually really enjoy it!

[@TimeAttack2003]

Before everything got expensive, i acquired chosera 800 and 3000 for 200ish.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

Truthfully I think that about the going rate today!

[@8thsinner]

That would be a good price but right now it looks like he has scraped that offer, now you still get those two stones but it doesn't appear that you can get them without the stone mount and sink brace bringing it up to £211gbp...i'm thinking his sets now are ridiculous, if you want to save the money on grouping stones together you're going to end up with multiple sinks and mounts etc... These are the two two that I have heard the most about though in the chosera range.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

The stones are totally awesome but I agree you don’t want to be picking up the extra crap. Maybe he’s low on stock or something so they aren’t sold separately. Might be worth waiting

[@8thsinner]

@@EngineersPerspective701 He does seem to be, more than half his knives right now are out of stock anyway. I'll keep an eye out but might just start with either the full set or the edge pro formats for now.

[@RenoxB3sr]

In einem anderen Beitrag wurde von ihnen ein Takamura Chromax geschärft mit der Kombination Naniwa 800/ 5000 Shapton Pro. Scheint auch gut zu funktionieren. Was ist der Unterschied zwischen den beiden Kombinationen. Habe den Shapton 5000 Pro. Ich bin am überlegen ob ich einen Naniwa 800 kaufe und das Finish dann auf dem Shapton mache. Habe auch den naniwa 400. Heist also Naniwa 400/800/ Shapton 5000 Pro kombination. Deshalb die Frage.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

I think the Naniwa Pro 800 would be an awesome stone to go between the 400 and 5K. The 800 leaves a pretty nice even finish that would polish up nice on the 5K Shapton.

[@RenoxB3sr]

@@EngineersPerspective701 Vielen dank für die Antwort. Das werde ich ausprobieren.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

Enjoy, that’s going to be an awesome stone progression!

[@turing2376]

So wusthof is king! Just kidding, but was glad to hear you thought it sharpened the best of the germans. Heard you mention victorinox, I have been amazed by how it seems to perform WAY above raw specs. I heard you mention the heat treat, also I have noticed it seems to be ground thinner and hold a thinner edge than I would have thought possible based upon the steel and reported hardness. Is that due in some way to the heat treat then? In any event, enjoying the sharpening videos. I think maybe you've touched on it but any chance you can talk about balancing getting the sharpest edge you can while still maintaining some bite?

[@EngineersPerspective701]

I LOVE my victorinox kitchen knives. Have a whole set that I travel to holidays with so I can cook with sharp knives. I do have a few videos they make appearances in. They're comfortable and 11/12 came with sub .010" BTE @ 15-17dps. Their thinness is just awesome! For a long time I kept them at 15dps and they always cut well but something was "off". Because in my usage they will get a tiny little rolled edge that can be stood up with a steel making it perform trickier cuts. I've since gone up to a 19dps edge and that holds better. I think it was so difficult to detect because they are so thin and don't really require a sharp edge to cut. This doesn't bother me in the least because a german style knife with 0.008" BTE @ 19dps is still way ahead of most brands! An easy way to notice rolling is to cut an apple with a perfectly sharp knife. Then cut an apple with the victorinox that has doesn't have a fresh edge. If the vicorinox apple browns notably faster it's because the very apex is rolled and the geometry needs to be thicker. As far as their heat treat goes. Essentially "retained austenite" or RA is a major contributor to a temperamental burr and uncrisp final edges. There are many different ways to reach an HRc target and it is my belief from sharpening lots of them that Victorinox does a very good job at hitting 55-56HRc while minimizing RA. This in turn gives a very nice sharpening experience. This is so special because normally it is VERY difficult to deburr soft steels like that. For sharpening. I definitely can make a separate video on a refined yet aggressive edge. In short 90% of getting an aggressive, high grit edge is burr management. Keeping it small and minimizing it as much as humanly possible on the stones. Rule of thumb is that the edge MUST catch your nail and shave easily prior to stropping. This depends on steel and heat treat but is generally true. I have quite a few videos scheduled already so it may take a bit to get this specific one out but many are about sharpening so I think you'll enjoy.

[@turing2376]

@@EngineersPerspective701 sharpen my victorinox at 17 dps and l am pretty happy with it though I would not be surprised if I found out it had some of the issues you mentioned; razor sharpness doesn't last long but stays pretty sharp enough to cut neatly through paper towel for a while. I heard you mention about the apple test before which I think I have actually witnessed without really knowing what I was witnessing. I will keep working on getting that ideal edge I am after and thanks for the advice. Let me ask you, when people talk about the edge catching on thumbnail, are they talking about when running it across the nail or just pushing against the nail or what exactly does this imply?

[@EngineersPerspective701]

@@turing2376 They respond so well to steeling they’ll keep a tomato cutting edge for a long time. The nail thing is an indicator of how crisp of an apex you’ve formed. Just lightly rest the edge on your nail, weight of the knife max. If it just slides off then it is not well apexed likely due to inconsistency or a large burr is still there. This does not gauge aggression so a knife can stick to the nail but not have any bite. The Carter 3 finger edge test is the best way to check for aggression. If you do it throughout the whole process you’ll begin to tell the difference between the saw teeth of a burr and the aggression of a well formed edge. Does that make sense?

[@turing2376]

@@EngineersPerspective701 ahh...I had confused the nail thing. Glad you cleared that up for me. So, pretty much always the edge will stick to the nail for me. The 3 finger test, now that is another matter. I guess I am able to detect different levels of agression with this test to some degree but not that well I feel like. What I am really looking for is an edge that will immediately bite into a paper towel and cleanly make a long slice while being able to whittle a hair as well. I can get this edge sometimes but not constantly and dependent upon the knife.

[@turing2376]

Additionally, I think part of my problem is that often when I go for that hair whitelling edge I lose the aggression.

[@dmb3428]

been researching stones for a month for a straight razor, had about 10 different ones in my amazon wishlist but was hesitant to spend for full size choseras...instant buy after seeing this video on that website, these will cover my bevel set range to mid....I dont sharpen that often so every little bit of savings help for probably the best stones on the market in this grit range

[@EngineersPerspective701]

Glad it helped! These reduced thickness stones are a smokin deal for sure! I also wrote a report on these stones that I cover in another video if you’re interested!

[@tehspinstee]

your not sharpening your razor with 800 grit right?

[@mijzelfmaardanik]

As I measure my Naniwa Chosera stones, they are about 25 mm and de Naniwa Professional 21 mm. I think your stones are to.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

These were a special edition that were thinner so I’m not sure exactly how they compare to the old Choseras or the renamed pros. Too much use on them now to measure

[@georgeyoung4292]

I have almost every best stone from the best manufacturers and Chosera800 & 3000 are simply amazing.. I have the original choseras and i hear confliction info about the formula.. Some ppl say its revised formula, others says its the very same stone but for international market where ori is for Japanese market..

[@EngineersPerspective701]

I really like the 3K but the 800 is just okay. The 800 has good speed for the dish rate and loads up just a bit so that's a major positive. But the speed still isn't quite what I prefer and I would personally take a little bit more slurry production even if I had to flatten more often. Definitely a great stone but I almost always choose the Neo these days because it cuts so dang fast and finishes so dang nice for the grit rating.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

Also what are your feelings on the Chosera 3K vs. Shapton Pro 5K? The Pro is actually a decent contender for me and I go back-and-forth on which I prefer

[@georgeyoung4292]

@@EngineersPerspective701 I dont have Shapton Pro 5k my friend .. I i have 2k and 12k.. Choseras are pleasure to use but i very much love Suehiro Rika 5k Cerax 1k and Junpaku/W8 8k stone.. And i love Shapton Glass.. To be honest i pick up stones that ppl recommend.. But the Shaptons i have are really good.. I recommend Rika 🙏 You will love it.. Hard to pick witch ones are better cause performance wise the are similar (except Suehiro are soaking stone that develop slurry easily) Thank you for review👍🙏 But i found Chosera 800# very good.. It does not load up, i mean i have them only few months and i sharpened bunch and the load up comes of with finger.. I dont use them on very hard and carbide loaded steels.. Up to SGPS / SG2.. Beyond that i use Venev set..

[@georgeyoung4292]

@@EngineersPerspective701 Neo are made with SiC thats why they are fast..

[@EngineersPerspective701]

@@georgeyoung4292 I have a pretty interesting video out on the choseras where I made a chart for how they cut different steels. It's also written in a report you can access from that video! I actually did have the Rika 5K and it surprisingly isn't really my cup of tea. It was the first place prize in my 1K subscriber giveaway so it's all boxed up. Still need to send it out across the pond though. I've heard a lot of good about the shapton glass series and will try them one day! Which is your favorite from the lineup?

[@MrBikboi]

I'd never order from him honestly, he's just a reseller/middle man and I strongly dislike him and his business practices. I'll buy straight chosera stones imported from Japan rather than give that shill a cent. I got some strong feelings about that guy. Nonetheless this is a solid deal for people wanting chosera stones.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

No matter what there is a middle man involved unless you travel to Japan yourself or deal with customs. But I agree that he’s not my favorite and a total shill. Like you said though, this is a really good deal

[@charlesm7646]

Just curious what you didn’t like about him & his business practices.

[@prenticegoodwin3522]

Good video. Hey man are u on reddit? I had a pretty good thread on r/sharpening that I think you would have enjoyed. Lots of good input.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

I've checked out some threads on reddit but I wouldn't say I'm "on" necessarily. Just joined and book marked r/sharpening so I can start digging in! What is the thread you have in mind?

[@adanma17]

I have the super stones for that extra polish

[@EngineersPerspective701]

What’s your progression with them?

[@adanma17]

@@EngineersPerspective701 I kinda went overboard and got the 400, 1k, 3k, 5k, 8k and the 12k for the ultra mirror polish but I found if you skipped the 400 and just use a 1000 shapton pro and a Arkansas hard it gives a polished edge with micro serrations for extra bite.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

@@adanma17 You definitely went all out! I really like doing the King Neo 800 and jumping to the Shapton Pro 5K, give that similar polish with micro serrations.

[@adanma17]

@@EngineersPerspective701 I also use bark river compound and that is the cherry on top.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

@@adanma17 I've heard good things about BRC. I've been using Gunny juice a lot lately and that stuff is the bomb. Put it on leather or wood?

[@adanma17]

Just let them dry well they tend to crack.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

I’ve been putting the backs together and placing the 3K face down in the box where the vent holes are and leaving the cover open to dry the 800. Seems to be enough to dry them without cracking so I think the box is a nice little add.