Jointing Sharpening Technique (Cut off that stubborn burr!)

[@lylesmith5079]

I've been at this over 50 years and getting rid of the burr is a real challenge. I appreciate this thank you so much.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

Whatever helps! There are a lot of techniques out there so I wanted to share

[@tinman1955]

Nice work. Cliff Stamp felt that the best way remove the burr is to not make one in the first place. That a burr is the result of over-sharpening and that it's better to quit before a burr happens. Easier said than done but it's probably the ideal to shoot for.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

Theoretically speaking this is basically his plateau sharpening method. Just starting from a more controlled point I'd suggest. Getting amazing results is definitely easier said than done!

[@brianhoffman5367]

Plateau sharpening. You need good light.

[@mikafoxx2717]

Watching him easily sharpen a cheap knife in 440j was seriously polishing a turd, masterfully. That stuff I don't even bother to try to do well, just better than blunt force trauma.

[@mattpaisley8706]

I like to do a couple pull strokes on a cork or wood end grain

[@EngineersPerspective701]

Since this video I really like to use cork or hard felt to “setup” the burr for a high grit edge leading stroke to cut it off cleanly. The cork itself usually isn’t enough for me to get a clean edge but it seems ti make a big difference before other cleanup steps

[@mattpaisley8706]

@@EngineersPerspective701 I’m just getting into whetstone sharpening. I can get a really awesome edge with the work sharp 1x18, I like the 3m trizact belts for that best. But damn this sharpening hole just keeps going. I mean I’m looking to engineers for god sake!

[@turing2376]

I tried it out one time after you mentioned it in another video. Didn't seem to work out great for me but don't know that it was a whole hearted effort either. Also, think I might have used a lower grit stone. Might have to give it a try again, seems to have worked well for you.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

Takes a little practice for sure but I really only use it on knives that are a particular pain in the tushy to deburr.

[@iLoveYouLebronDaddyJames]

@@EngineersPerspective701 .

[@user-pm7pw1tl3t]

If you cut the edge of on a stone before sharpening you cutting fatigued steel of to begin with causing the burr the be less flippy and more able to sheer of on the stone. I suppose if you did it before sharpening and then do jointing would work too.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

You know sometimes I cut the edge off and sometimes I don't. I've never taken the time to correlate it to how well it deburrs but you've got me exceptionally curious now!

[@blggtavus]

I normally do several light passes with a few super light edge trailing strokes at the end, but recently I have been trying this jointing technique. I have had a mixed results with this. Many times I find myself being slightly heavy-handed, so a few edge trailing passes are not enough to bring the apex back to a satisfactory level of sharpness and I have to resharpen the knife. After jointing, what do you think about the final edge, in terms of sharpness and strength, compared to that finished with normal light passes? Theoretically, should the Jointing technique gives you the cleanest and strongest edge but slightly less sharp than normal light passes?

[@EngineersPerspective701]

I do feel like a jointed edge does not feel as crisp as a regularly deburred one. I do get really long life out of them but not any longer than any other burr free edge. I'd say it's only worth doing on stubborn burr knives personally. A light touch is super important but the stropping stroked must be done with care otherwise you'll create a new burr. w

[@blggtavus]

@@EngineersPerspective701 I feel the same that a jointed edge does not feel as crisp as a regular deburred one. Now I have stopped doing this technique unless I have sharpened the knife to the point where I got a very large burr or wire edge.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

@@blggtavus same

[@mikafoxx2717]

​Seems useful for no-name stainless knives. I'd be curious to see electron microscope images of a jointed edge, it's just really hard to know when you've got true apex, and going beyond causes either a foil burr or coarse edge chipping​@@EngineersPerspective701

[@doug1052]

I run the edge over hard felt cube or stiff leather in between my stones to remove a stubborn burr. I usually have good luck with that.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

Definitely an option, even a soft piece of wood works decently! But I find that the removal is pretty rough and usually doesn't take it off very cleanly. Also depending on the steel and heat treat it can work better or worse. The advantage of jointing is that it cuts the burr off cleanly. Whereas the those methods rip or tear the burr off leaving fatigued steel at the very apex in theory. Both methods do it in a supported direction, which is good, as I attempted to explain with the comb in the video.

[@doug1052]

@@EngineersPerspective701 I’m going to try jointing.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

@@doug1052 one day I will try to see if there is a real difference by doing edge retention tests with each style of deburring!

[@kabes1776]

Is a 220 to a 1000 a big jump? What should i be doing on the 1000 to polish my knife? What cues should i look for

[@EngineersPerspective701]

Yes that’s a pretty big jump but it depends on 1)the stones 2)steel 3)desired result to say if it’s too big. If you want a nice shiny polished edge you need something in between ~600 and then a 3K-5K after the 1000 will get you a decent polish depending on the above factors

[@kabes1776]

@@EngineersPerspective701 Thanks. What do you think about removing burr with edge leading passes at a higher angle

[@EngineersPerspective701]

@@kabes1776 I don’t like it. Having the microbevel leads to more pain and issues than it’s worth. Regardless it does happen as an act of desperation followed by a strop now and again 😂!

[@TylrVncnt]

Would another theory be that instead of fatigued metal at the apex you could have work hardened steel by flipping the burr back and forth

[@EngineersPerspective701]

Me not being a metallurgist I think work hardening would be a mechanism that causes metal fatigue. I would definitely say that a light stropping it best for cleaning up that reming work hardened steel after the burr is removed. Just don’t over strop but people like Michael Cristy get insanely good results with a big stropping progression so idk for sure!

[@l26wang]

Worth noting from the burr theory video that 165 has a burr present. Maybe should have jointed more than one pass.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

I can hear the spot that still has a burr after jointing in this video watching it back now. Another pass would have been good

[@dombond6515]

Hey ep check out knife grinders latest vid he's showing that u start stopping on the opposite side of burr refine that side then move to burr side. Pretty cool and something I'll be trying in the future!

[@EngineersPerspective701]

I tried it on the Ken onion blade grinder and it definitely did work! With a 19.5dps edge on a messermeister finished with chrome oxide cloth belt avg BESS was 95g. Extremely well apexed but minimal aggression as per the usual with that system. It’s not clear to me how well it would work on the stones but I really think the method is exclusive to powered methods. Thought is that for stones there should be no burr once you get to the strop anyways.

[@geemoney5467]

what steels do you think have the most stubborn burrs?

[@EngineersPerspective701]

I’d say it has more to do with heat treatment than any other factor. High retained austenite, RA, and low hardness increase difficulty and both can be drastically affected in heat treatment. However, one can generalize about what is commonly distributed by manufacturers. Generally most stainless steels will fall into this category because the high chrom leads to higher RA and chromium carbide formation leads to lower toughness which is dealt with by going softer. The degree to which they hold onto the burr varies widely though. Many German stainless knives are bad offenders but Wusthof and Victorinox have been exceptions. Inexpensive kershaws, gerber, buck but even soft M390 and it’s analogs can be a pain. To a lesser extent some of the non-stainless steels with tungsten additions can be a little trickier than I’d expect but still much easier than the aforementioned steels. Examples are M4 and K390. They’ll hold onto a tiny microburr that is difficult to notice even but it’s super apparent when the edge retention is really poor.

[@geemoney5467]

@@EngineersPerspective701 I'm mainly familiar with spyderco knives and probably have knife in just about every steel they have used except s45vn and the Italian steel. My favorites among them are 52100,cpm cruwear,4v,and rex45. the ones I have had trouble with are usually stainless, though some may be from wacky edge geometry from the factory

[@EngineersPerspective701]

@@geemoney5467 All those are great sharpening steels as done by Spyderco for sure! V-Toku 2 has been a real pleasure as well as LC200N. LC200N is the best sharpening stainless steel I’ve come across bar none. My guess is that because Spyderco is taking extra care treating them for maxing out the hardness plus super fine grain and low nitride content.

[@geemoney5467]

@@EngineersPerspective701 I just use an 800 grit sic waterstone for my lc200n carribean and a denim hanging strop with mothers polish on it. it is very easy to get super sharp

[@EngineersPerspective701]

@@geemoney5467 I swear if you look at the stuff too hard it’ll whittle hair!

[@arrisdebruin]

Sharpen it both sides, cut off the burr on a piece of cardboard and strop it. Don't overthink it.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

Sometimes I do overthink it but that’s the point of the channel too! I will say that often the burr does not cutoff on a piece of cardboard and instead gets refined and stood up

[@geemoney5467]

cliff stamp passed?

[@EngineersPerspective701]

Unfortunately yes. Don’t know any details but I think it was pretty sudden.

[@geemoney5467]

@@EngineersPerspective701 that's terrible

[@sharpfactory3705]

For me a knife gets much sharper when i reduce the bur with lite passes before going on the strop.

[@EngineersPerspective701]

Absolutely agree. Some knives will have a really temperamental burr that takes a lot of passes to reduce which adds in error so that’s where I sometimes use this. Honestly edge leading passes usually take care of most stubborn burrs anyways though which is what I do mostly now