First Take gets into a heated debate over Max's Isiah Thomas vs. John Stockton argument

[@dmhibb]

The Max hate on the show is actually getting out of hand.

[@trustplanet]

dmhibb facts bro. I wish max would stand up for himself and stop letting Stephen A son him. Skip would never allow Stephen A to violate like this lol.

[@iagosuarez6429]

Agreed. It makes me cringe every time

[@Stormpants]

I think, for these arguments using logic, his points defend himself well enough.

[@brodericksimpson6049]

Nah, it's not getting out of hand. When he says dumb things like Stockton having Malone was the same as Isiah Thomas having the teammates he had in Detroit, he deserves to be ridiculed. Dumars was really good. But only one man can claim to be a better power forward than Malone in the history of the NBA and his last name is Duncan.

[@manofaith75]

@@Stormpants Who max? I doubt there's any logic behind max contention that Isiah is only a tad better than stockton.

[@jonathanwiggins5366]

Karl Malone is NOT the reason that Stockton is the All-Time leader in steals, I know that much.

[@nottodayimbusy7146]

@andre jamison how?

[@deciuswtasby]

Nope; Stockton was great and they are literally super hating to say he was made bc of Malone

[@jephtekalombo]

True but he’s one of the reasons Stockton is all time leader in assists

[@samnangpoe]

Agreed. They act like Stockton don’t have other teammates

[@youngblood4127]

@@deciuswtasby He's one of the reasons. But for people to act like Karl Malone made John Stockton is utterly ridiculous. John Stockton WAS THE SYSTEM! He was the one that teams had trouble game planning against, not Malone. He was a matchup nightmare.

[@rifferton]

SAS: “I know a thing or two about boxing” Boxing world: 🧢

[@slick9454]

Michael C Stephen A sounds like a casual fan when he talks about boxing

[@ivansevo427]

@@slick9454 lol Max and Stephen a ARE casual fans. Like every other journalist on TV or youtube they Don t know what it takes to be a pro athlete. They Don t know anything more about sports than me and you. Just beacuse they memorize bunch of facts that every idiot with a phone can look up anytime he wants to Don t mean nothing. They are Here to enterntain us and they are doing a Great Job so thats why they get pay millions and they deserve it, but in terms of knowledge they are as CASUAL as any sports fan including me and you.

[@voshru6683]

Ivan Ševo yea you’re completely wrong about max bro. He’s not a casual boxing fan and has been covering boxing for YEEEAAAARRSSS max probably forgot more boxing than me and you know. SAS is a Caruso combat sorts fan for sure though.

[@rogeraraiza9690]

SAS doesn't know 💩 about 🥊 btw. 🤦‍♂️

[@tigerhoods7927]

Lol right he barely knows about basketball

[@milo8425]

"He had Karl Malone" Yeah, well, Malone had Stockton.

[@ZodiacMy]

end of argument

[@shinsukecorbin425]

Magic had Kareem but no one will EVER SAY THAT so I’m confused

[@Threesom666]

ismail adam Kareem. Joe Dumars. Rodman. Laimbeer the greatest bad boy of all-time.

[@pingistingis7166]

never heard anything more true

[@Who.Said.ImTrash]

Malone also had a case 😂😂

[@jamesonchandler971]

Ok. Max gets way too much heat sometimes. They crucified him for saying Malone was only top 5 PF of all time. That's not crazy. There were a lot of great PF's

[@travelingtheworld8224]

I'd take Duncan, KG, and Dirk over Malone everyday of the week. Even if they all had equal number of rings.

[@letmegetuhhh3959]

@@travelingtheworld8224 Timmy and KG for sure but Dirk is much closer. Malone was the better defender and rebounder by a mile and better low block threat.

[@jamesonchandler971]

@@travelingtheworld8224 Number one is obviously Tim. Two, I would say Kevin McHale. And three is debatable between Dirk, Malone, Barkley, and KG

[@mtmd1042]

Yeah, I'm not sure Malone would be among my top-3 PF's. It's a very crowded category, and very close at the top.

[@slomo1203]

Top 3 maybe

[@archle1169]

I actually agree with max, u can’t just disrespect Stockton because he had Malone.

[@astheskylarksings]

If you thought this about disrespecting Stockton then you didn’t watch the clip

[@rumhave9632]

Stockton is #1 most underrated player ever. Stockton created Malone with his brilliance. Isaiah didn't have the luxury of open shots????? Stockton was smarter than to take stupid shots. Barkley said "Stockton made the best decisions with the ball."

[@alexalonzo4070]

Rum Have Stockton is the most OVERRATED player of all time, a large majority of his assists were from Malone, the starting point guard before him was also averaging double digit assists w Malone it was Malone who was largely responsible for stocktons success, it’d be the equivalent of if rondo ran a pick and roll with Kevin Garnett every play a lot of assists

[@rezarfar]

@@rumhave9632 Stockton was seriously overrated. This shouldn't even be a debate really. Thomas won games, Stockton was part of a team that won games. one was a cog in the machine and the other was the machine. There is a world of difference.

[@krazywu]

john made malone more than malone made stockton

[@baller6659]

Why do they disrespect him so much with all the facial expressions, max respects them when there talking. Totally unprofessional

[@michaelphillips9933]

Only disrespect is Max thinking Stockton was close to Zeke

[@kobe3534]

@@michaelphillips9933 Stockton > Zeke and its not even close

[@nathanyared714]

KO BE Isaiah carried the pistons offense

[@nathanyared714]

KO BE and has two more rings

[@killathraxx3036]

@@kobe3534 obvious hipster is obvious *ding*

[@chandthrukanagarajah]

I love how these guys arguements are not fact based. These dudes are emotional that a boxing analyst can analyze the game of basketball better than them and more objectively

[@chandthrukanagarajah]

@Cool Breeze yeah but as I mentioned they are not fact based. Emotion in the absence of facts is just whining

[@SM-qd7po]

@Cool Breeze Max brought up stats, achievements and accolades and even then agreed with them. All Jay did was bring up Malone and act like an idiot and SAS was just insulting Max. Max may not always have the most sensible takes but there was no objectivity from Jay and SAS. Just emotional flailing and insulting.

[@DemonKing-oi4jd]

@@SM-qd7po Yeah, but all three of them have stupid takes. SAS is a horrible analyst though for being a so called basketball expert. He is just well connected in the league. Stockton is solid and a prototypical pg. Zeke is on another level though, and shouldn't be questioned.

[@markpagtama7954]

Point still stands, zeke was the best player on the best team at a point in basketball history, stockton was never the best player on his team and his team was never the best team in basketball. Stockton was never a top 5 player in the league not one point in nba history is that true. But zeke was one of the 3 best players in the late 80s.

[@chandthrukanagarajah]

@@markpagtama7954 max doesn't disagree with that. His point is that he would go with Isiah but is a lot closer than these clowns insist. He is right that Stockton had a peak close to Isiah but not on his level, but had a more longer career with sustained production

[@AaaA-ec4sq]

Stephen A and Jay’s only argument against Stockton, was that he played with Karl Malone. But I promise you that Stephen A or Jay would never fault Magic Johnson for playing with Kareem.

[@eric_sweats5581]

Exactly what i was hoping max would say. Smh the disrespect

[@juanm6248]

Magic did prove he was great on his own in his rookie year when he closed out the Finals without Kareem, with a 42pt triple-double. Also won League MVP in 1990, with the best recording the league in 91 and a finals appearance.

[@mackdaddy9655]

Lol Magic won with what he had, Stockton didn’t. Isiah won with less than both of what they had. Isiah was better just not as well liked.

[@JarellLavender89]

What made Stockton great was his assist just google his stats..he average 13ppg to maybe 17 or 18ppg.. probably half his assist are to malone

[@alastairbelmont7632]

Or MJ Playing with Scottie.

[@BlackSenseiSociety]

Stephen A and Jay literally made no argument. W goes to Max easily

[@blakemunson2025]

why they acting like this take is absurd. He’s not saying that Stockton is better than IT but he’s saying it his very close which isn’t crazy to think Stockton was amazing

[@alonzox5420]

Blake Munson it’s not close. IT clearly better than Stockton

[@ellzthegod]

I can't tell if you're trolling or not

[@iluvcakes19]

But Stockton IS BETTER THAN Zeke.

[@LocoAsasino]

iluvcakes19 bro who use to say Stockton better than zeke? That’s absurd. Zeke gave him like 40 after the dream team was announced. Zekes 8 healthy seasons compared to stocktons prime is totally not even close. Zeke did everything better, tell me one part of the game Stockton was better at in both their primes and I’ll shut up

[@janeabradley4347]

But it’s about making the team bro Isaiah was supposed to make that team over John stockton

[@filipostojic1239]

John Stockton is the reason why Karl Malone has 36,000 points and Karl Malone is the reason why John Stockton has 15,000 assists. They both complement each other and their both legends, and I agree with Max when it comes to Isiah being slightly better, being more emotional and animated about your opinion doesn't make it right, it actually makes it look worse.

[@LiberalHeartBreaker]

Stockton is the all-time leader in steals and assists, by a mile.. Did Malone do that for him too?

[@russbischoff9735]

🏀 John Stockton made everyone who that he played with better and more effective and that's not even debatable.

[@mikekillagreen9432]

No way. Isiah has two rings and didn't have a top 25 player.

[@sebastiancovac7879]

@@mikekillagreen9432 isiah got his 2 rings in a transition period when lakers and celtics got old and beat up and bulls were too young and not ready to take over. also isiah played on a physical and defensive team with 2 all nba 1st team defenders. that would be like saying in 2004 billups is better than kidd cause he won a ring without top 25 player.

[@mikekillagreen9432]

@sebastiancovac7879 Are you out of your mind. I'm a life long Lakers fan and even I know Isiah sprained his ankle when he scored 25 in the third and couldn't play much in game 7. Then in game 7, one possession game they called a phantom foul then all the fans ran on the court before they could shoot. Magic was MVP the years they won titles so still.in his prime so was Worthy. Isiah threw the ball away when Boston was the defending champs so not old at all. Bird was MVP the year before. Bulls pushed em to game 7 in 1990 with Phil Jackson so save the young excuse.

[@MrCanadaman99]

Max is looking at the producers thinking “y’all ain’t paying me enough to take this disrespect on the daily.” I do love SAS, but this show is turning into the Steven A always knows best.

[@stlyelove417]

This why I refuse to watch first take without live sports now SAS thinks he's right all the time..smh

[@dom3221]

I mean it is a debate show for a reason

[@davidchandler6885]

its more annoying stephen A think he is a star, acts and think he some retired althtete. when in reality all he is a shoe shiner or jock boy scraping off others talents and talking about it

[@goldenjack7]

Nigel Harris yeah the hate Max gets from them is disrespectful. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was saying pay me more or I’m dont with this bs.

[@tsurod]

@Jiggy Thanos a lot of this is a eye test and this white guy is not as athletic and the black guy. That is wrong the stats back up Max. Stockton was not only as good but I would be tempted to say he was better.

[@andrewmccune2895]

Get Jay Williams out of here and replace him with someone who doesn't look completely baffled when presented with facts.

[@jimmywatson9571]

Seriously though😂 Jay just can't see anybody else's view no matter how wrong he is😭

[@logic2000]

But Jay was right though!!!!🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️

[@DominiqueWilliams-ue3rx]

@@logic2000 john stockton lol embarrassing dude. Is he even better than curry lol

[@dennisradman6057]

Is he better than curry? Your trippin. Curry jacks up threes that’s it every other aspect of the game Stockton was better

[@kungfufemafam9216]

He is actually.better than Curry IN EVERY WAY except 3pt shots and ball handling. Gas with Stockton would be better than having Green

[@AJ-zy9jf]

The disrespect to Stockton is incredible. The more animated you get doesn't make your argument is stronger.

[@godisbollocks]

Why Stephen A Smith is one of the most disliked people on television, example #3612.

[@Titleist24]

Ya but one is black and one is white.

[@yvans.]

GNB nobody say that Isiaah Thomas wasn’t better than Stockton but that’s not outlandish saying that it’s close

[@r-trippin5078]

All star mvp 1993

[@Titleist24]

GNB he’s accomplished nothing you’re right he sucks

[@50jumpers95]

SAS acts like hes the only one who can talk basketball.

[@satsuma1754]

When he cant predict a winner in NBA finals 🤣

[@greci4376]

Stockton is underrated. Karl Malone didn't grab those steals stop sleeping on Stockton

[@derrickc8908]

Grace there is no such thing as a, “underrated living Hall of famer”

[@greci4376]

Michael Ukattah Isaiah was a better player but their tone towards Stockton leaves a bad taste. He’s on the list of top pg of all time with Isaiah

[@yuryberrios7003]

I would take Stockton over Thomas any day ! Leads in assists, gets steals & a floor general....i hated the jazz but it was mainly bcuz Stockton was that good !

[@stephenaintshyt]

OVERRATED!!! There fixed it for ya lmmfao

[@tartuffethesprywonderdog5883]

Stockton was the prototype point guard. So efficient all around.

[@orlandorivera69]

Ok, getting real tired of Steven A. The yawning, the side swipe, the attention.. It's a debate, have some class.

[@stickitupyourasteric]

I agree..But he won this debate..Stockton LoL..

[@DHKer23]

I can’t stand Jay. He has a conniption whenever people disagree with him. It’s annoying.

[@hateyouwithapassion1]

He's a legend living in a shell

[@bucksn6ix]

He’s Molly 2.0

[@delioniowilson7301]

He is right tho. Max is so far wrong it’s sad.

[@batman9512]

@@delioniowilson7301 Explain why.

[@Marsonis2ya]

@@delioniowilson7301 Max isn't wrong. The problem is people don't understand what he is saying. Ya'll are acting like he is saying John was better then and he isn't. He is saying their careers are at the very least comparable to one another. He is also saying that making the argument that Stockton only did what he did because of Malone doesn't account for how high some of his stats are compared to Isiah. Malone was an A+ player. Detroit didn't have that outside of Isaiah. What Detroit did have however was a massive amount of B to B- players around Isiah. That is what Max is saying. When you start actually comparing the teams they are comparable to one another. The team makeup cannot be the excuse for why you can't compare Isiah vs Stockton.

[@damiane1015]

Magic had Worthy, Kareem, etc. Are we to take away from Magic’s greatness because he had prolific scorers? Although I rarely agree with Max when it comes to basketball, I think he’s right on this one.

[@ajdaking507]

The problem with that line of thinking is that magic was the best player on the team through most of that 80s run. And even without kareem he got the magic to the 1991 finals. In comparison, stockton wasn't the best player on the team, malone clearly was. Which is why in games that malone played and stockton didn't, malone's numbers were about the same. While in games that stockton played without malone, he was way worse.

[@M.Đ-z4u]

@@ajdaking507 nobody says stockton was a better player that malone

[@magicjohnson5733]

@@ajdaking507 maybe cause kareem was alreayd older and outside of his prime?

[@Bonescratcher]

@@ajdaking507 remind us again what happened to Magic in that ‘91 finals?

[@vvthetalentlessduo6976]

O

[@pickettmandi]

"Stockton wasn't looking to pass." Isnt he the all time assist leader?

[@Raul1088]

Amanda Smith imagine if he was looking to pass.he would of have 25k assists.lmao

[@xavierpena3339]

Stockton in the 80 was a lethal scorer also he was mad clutch

[@manofaith75]

who said stock wasn't looking to pass?

[@Reignwonton]

@@manofaith75 S.A.S....

[@marvinstokes4016]

He said he was looking to pass its obvious what he was saying

[@natygeta6797]

Jay will is weird man he thinks he’s better than max lol he ain’t

[@kirklandyoung4450]

He is nowhere near better than max Kellerman he need to stop

[@djmannyjattahhipowasound1952]

Max got em bafooned by FACTS...he be killing my boy Stephen all da time tho..n Jay Will need to 🤐

[@freezedatakeover]

he knows more basketball

[@charleswilliams8248]

Max never played basketball 🏀! Jay Williams did! Nuff said!

[@odonnellcaleb]

@@charleswilliams8248 Ryan Hollins said neither Kobe or MJ could fill Lebron's shoes....so lets dig a little more into arguments than that.

[@calebconner925]

Don’t get me wrong Max be wrong a lot but I don’t like how they treat him when he be right sometimes it just be mean.

[@StevenGougis]

Caleb Conner yeah he makes valid points at times, it's just Stephen A and whoever on the the show as guest is always always overtalking Smdh, just cuz you're louder, don't always mean you're right

[@privilegetobehere]

i was gonna say the same thing. max is very intelligent and sometimes they just don't understand his higher level thinking

[@shanepringle]

Max is right a lot more than folks wan to give him credit for, but doesn't play well to a TV audience that doesn't want nuanced opinions.

[@youngblood4127]

@@shanepringle Precisely, the general audience are driven by Emotional i.e. Stephen A Smith & Evel Knievel... I mean Jay Williams. They're are the same intellectual as Stephen A Smith. Yet, time & time again he's able sway people due to his Passionate takes. Almost like hounding you into submission.

[@geowilson242]

FACTS! I'm African-American & I can say Max can pull the race card when they be trying to jump him in areas like this

[@63586jonathan]

If Stockton was black we would have given him more respect. Stockton does deserve more respect

[@bradthomas7431]

If Isaiah was white he would be a god like Bird

[@EuthanizePitbulls]

@@bradthomas7431 What? There are countless players who are perceived better than Isaiah, and like 37/40 are black...

[@jayjohnson7646]

@@bradthomas7431 facts lol i sway lol

[@timtabron9600]

Brad Thomas absolutely.

[@arsonhakobyan]

@@timtabron9600 This is where the race card double standard just goes too far. The great white superstar like a Larry Bird just breathes so much hope into a white community, when he can be so profoundly dominant in a black man's game. When a black quarterback like RG3 starts having so much success at a white position, the black community gets all excited too. If Isiah was slighted so much for being black, why did he make the All-Star team 12 straight yrs, every single one of his career but the very last one he was injured? They vote the All-Star team backcourts based on 2 guards in general, not specifically a point guard & a shooting guard. He didn't have such amazing stats his rookie yr, or after his mid 20s.

[@patricija4179]

Why SAS think that him covering the league means he knows something? First Take posts video evidence every day that he is wrong 99% of the time... Dude said in 2016 Melo was better than Kawhi and Griffin, that's fireable statement

[@jplaya2023]

In 2016 melo was better

[@timocruz510]

@@jplaya2023 no he wasn't...

[@TYballer389]

Timo Cruz Melo is better then griffin

[@jrdz3582]

only thing Griffin has ever been better at than Melo is dunking

[@Sg6CrossOver]

@@jplaya2023 oh pls, melo 16 was derozan level at best.

[@trevormorris6768]

The disrespect towards Stockton is disgusting 🤦🏽‍♂️

[@sharrieffmuhammad9227]

Trevor Morris John Stockton is very overrated

[@1neomonkey]

@@sharrieffmuhammad9227 - And yet go look up how many ex NBA players think Stockton is the best point guard ever. Not one of the best, but THE BEST.

[@momenkhan8838]

AndyB he is definitely top 3, between him magic and Oscar

[@xaviervega468]

@@sharrieffmuhammad9227 You misspelled "underrated"

[@sharrieffmuhammad9227]

Xavier Vega no he’s overrated

[@adame3021]

Jay Williams is flat out bad at his job smh 🤦🏽‍♂️

[@StormTheBastille]

Yeah i agree... He cant EVER be wrong

[@iagosuarez6429]

He's the goat when it comes to making me cringe

[@lagosfury5142]

Nah..he passionate,,keeps it real and dont like to hear nonsense from people who never played the game

[@manofaith75]

nah he's good at it; I just think you dont like his face.

[@slayy51621]

How is he ? This dude played in the nba it be dudes that never played a sport in life trying too debate about a player’s greatness yea u can have an opinion but I’ll take what a nba player that played before a fan that watches and play 2k and swear they know basketball

[@ЖорикКурильский]

Stockton-all time leader in steals. That record will stand forever. Should we give Malone credit for that too?

[@bigfootindeal1525]

Great Point!

[@Lordperson3]

And assists

[@washburn11000]

Very true

[@grabbity]

@@troylowe9457 by that logic you can't have Jordan above Bill Russell.

[@scrillamanjaro6708]

@@troylowe9457 the 2 rings PLUS a MUCH BETTER college career. It was NEVER a doubt Zeke is better, by a long shot, FROM DAY 1

[@henboyman]

Stephen a: “you talkin u ain’t listening” bro why are u describing yourself

[@jamesjones8718]

How about we give Stockton credit for getting malone so many easy buckets

[@jdub910]

Exactly what I have been saying

[@michaelsherron5750]

THANK YOU!!!

[@KEEK35181]

Exactly. I mean Malone could face up and hit a jumper or then use that and drive to the hoop. However other than that Malone's post game was a lot more limited than people remember. He didn't have particularly great footwork or a great hook shot or spin moves etc. All of this meant a lot of his hoops came from running the floor and rolling to the hoop. Stockton was the one that provided him the ball in those situations. Stockton helped Malone a lot. I actually think Stockton helped Malone as much as Malone helped Stockton. Stockton is criminally underated. Isiah was better but lets give Stockton some credit.

[@sbstaysharp25]

They was not easy buckets , they were 15 foot jumpers

[@natevanderw]

90% of the time it was dribble the ball up with one hand (b/c back then point guards were awful at dribbling with both hands), get the ball toKarl Malone in the post, and then Malone would proceed to do some wiggles and other ancient post moves and use his muscle to get to the hole. That was it. Beyond that, Stockton was above average at break away passes. But WAY overrated. Fred Vanvleet for the Toronto Raptors, a normal point guard by today's standards, is MUCH better than Stockton ever was.

[@1neomonkey]

I swear, Max be making these guys look like chumps.

[@astheskylarksings]

This comment just made you look like a chump

[@kungfufemafam9216]

Nah fam you're ignorant. Max's IQ is superior to Steven A's and he never has to tell or be theatrical when explaining his point

[@Soldier979]

yup, you just have to stay awake and hear him out

[@jbrumfield6090]

On open court Isaiah said that malone was the weak link an Stockton was better......look it up

[@zaaayyyy23]

The way Stephen A treated Max was unacceptable. You can tell he was goin to try an snake em in the long run.

[@cycl0nnus]

ever since max was called more black than stephen a. by to, it was over between the 2

[@loudpack3398]

lol your delusional... snake em? lol... max had way too many bogus takes... like this one about isiah... brady's cliff, warriors dynasty... wiggins... fate of the world last second shot gove me iguadola lol... theres more lol... nothing to do with snaking lol

[@noicemate9111]

@@loudpack3398those bogus tales are what make shows entertaining

[@organizednoise9614]

Cry me a River… even the other analysts couldn’t stand when makes open his mouth about basketball….. omg he is so annoying in this takes 🤦🏾‍♂️🤯

[@riverofcustard3233]

Stockton was a stone cold assassin. He's underrated because he's white and he didn't win a ring.

[@bigtastyforlife9367]

I agree. Gary Payton said he was his toughest opponent.

[@Slxtty.christian]

Wrd I agree with that statement

[@Terrashield]

That’s a Fact

[@deejay1ab]

Exactly. If the Glove chose Stockton to induct him into the HOF - and Payton has gone On Record to say that Stockton was the toughest player he’s ever played - that’s saying it all

[@kunlefaseru]

Gonzalo Otheguy he's underrated but not nearly as good as Isiah Thomas.

[@joemag22]

I’m staring to like Max a lot more during the lockdown and SAS a lot less.

[@kobe3534]

Youre finally seeing the light! If you watch this show more often the more you know Max is 100% much better than SAS and Jay

[@theelindseybri]

The quarantine is getting to SAS 😂

[@mellis9729]

Max prsents logical arguments based on facts. He whiffs sometimes like with the Brady cliff theory several years ago. But his opinions at least are logical conclusions based on facts. SAS looks hard to find racism in sports, often when it doesnt exist. "Larry Bird walked off the court and didnt shake hands just like IT and the Pistons, and he didnt got roasted for it. That might because he's white" yeah right...I guess Bill Laimbeer isnt white too. Please

[@justinhall4038]

@@mellis9729 brady fell of da cliff now though. 14-13 & not score second half at home to tennessee (career over) Tampa a paper public team this year like Cleveland n chicago coming into last year (we know what happened with those 2 teams) best propt bet is under on Tampa win total for season you'll thank me later

[@timothyt0102]

Max also knows how to troll both SAS & Jay. That side smirk is more than enuff to say he's enjoying this.

[@josephjohnroe3678]

Does this mean we are going to devalue Magic because he played with Kareem and Janes Worthy??

[@welcomeworldsports9133]

No because those dudes talents didn't inflate Magic's talents, Magic was an amazing passer and great finisher at the rim, it didn't matter to him if Kareem was under the bucket or a dude on a 10 day, his talents weren't heightened by those dudes, John Stockton ran a system catered to point guards to get high assist totals and did it with a top 3 PF of all time, having great teammates is a luxury but it also masks your weaknesses because your not forced to go outside of your strengths

[@josephjohnroe3678]

@@welcomeworldsports9133 and running Showtime didn't inflate Magic's numbers? He played with the greatest center of all time and top 5 small forward. Can't have it both ways.

[@MineShackle]

to some degree you have to admit that Magic's numbers are inflated because he played on the consistent best team of the 80's.

[@welcomeworldsports9133]

@@josephjohnroe3678 Magic ran a run and gun system, which is heavily on the point guard to run and create baskets, how does a great post man impact his ability to get up and down the court and find the open man, he was their half court threat for when the run and gun doesn't work, and Worthy was an amazing player that took heat off of Magic so I can see where your coming from their, but Stockton literally ran a system that was made for two players and one of the players is a top 3 pf all time

[@jonathanwiggins5366]

@@welcomeworldsports9133 WOW the excuses are STROOOONG for Magic Johnson. Kareem is the GREATEST OF ALL-TIME and you're really going to sit there and act like he didn't help make Magic? AND he had Worthy? Imagine if Bird had Michael Jordan on his team, you going to act like wouldn't have had a better career?

[@joshforest304]

Stockton has the record for both steals and assists by a mile too

[@123slasher.16]

And how did that help the team in those 2 Finals they loss? MJ knew they didn't fear Stockton and Malone. They feared Isiah Thomas and his teammates.

[@Coldskin1]

@@123slasher.16 isiah thomas was a better superstar/star than stockton, stockton a better passer

[@123slasher.16]

@@Coldskin1 stop it; Just because he had more assists doesn't make him a better passer Stockton made some boring passes in a system that he couldn't win a title in. Go watch the INCREDIBLE passes Isiah Thomas made that had crowds going crazy on the creativity.. Go watch any All Star Game he played in and watch those highlight passes. Between the two, Isiah Thomas had a BIGGER role in his team as he had to score (Stockton didn't), had to run the offense and when it came to the big shots, EVERYONE knew the ball was going to Isiah, something that wasn't happening with Stockton. If Stockton was this great passer, where were those passes when they were constantly choking in the playoffs?

[@123slasher.16]

That's all folks can talk about with Stockton, those meaningless stats . Here's what they talk about Isiah Thomas. 1979 gold medal winner and MVP of the title game. 1981 NCAA champion and MOP of the Final Four. 1989-1990 NBA champion and NBA Finals MVP in 1990. Those stats for Stockton were USELESS when it came to winning.

[@MrMikeyj81]

@@123slasher.16 TRY again you dense casual 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡🤡🤡🤡

[@elijahguerrero4913]

Jay Williams has been getting me tight lately just had to throw that out there 🤦🏾‍♂️, but Max isn’t wrong with anything he is saying outside of Malone it’s true Isiah Thomas had a better all around team Thomas is better but we can’t sit here and act like it wasn’t close from a talent perspective between the 2 Stephen A always talking about Max card basketball card needs to be revoked sometimes I do agree with that but Stephen A needed his card revoked when he Ad is better than Kawhi

[@fanonxrogers109]

I swear Jay Williams is an idiot

[@janikmcmahon2536]

Elijah Guerrero Jay Williams is annoying ngl

[@melvinhhcp3615]

Stockton > Thomas, especially on defense. Isiah on seems better because he scored more. That's not necessarily true though.

[@sol74098]

Janik McMahon 💯

[@kobydark5418]

Those were my exact thoughts. Well said my friend

[@flareb99]

Y'all treating the all time steals and assist leader like he a scrub

[@xdan9xx]

Watch the tape. Stockon barely had a left hand and a large majority of his assist were him dropping the ball to malone. Normally the assist would be lost because once the ball is in the post guys would take too long to score but not with malone.

[@blackeesh463]

@@xdan9xx s t e a l s

[@xdan9xx]

@@blackeesh463 he was great at defending point guards before point guards were any good.

[@Tailoredwright]

No just not better than zeke

[@xaviourcammon1475]

Flareb 99 he is a scrub compared to Isaiah. Look at the head to head matchups.

[@justinnedmundtinoko2749]

Max is right on this one. Stephen A and Jay Will just wants to argue for the sake of argument.

[@epiccollision]

Justinn Tinoko this whole shows exists for SAS to argue with people mostly Max, SAS is a great spokesperson and advocate, being correct is not one of his skills.

[@jessetekalandon]

You can't compare John Stockton to Isiah Thomas. There is no comparison. Stop it.

[@ERizzo5]

Jesse McLemore Why? Isaiah was more of a scoring point guard paving the way for Iverson, Marburg, Westbrook. Stockton was your prototypical point guard. He ran the show, got everyone involved. They’re both on the list of top point guards of all time.

[@gerardtemu1959]

E R but still couldn’t lead his team to championships, that’s why Isiah is a class above Stockton.

[@uzomaukwu948]

Gerard Temu Stockton never got swept by a prime MJ led team

[@lucasrobinson1102]

Stockton is the most underrated player ever. All time leader in assists & Steals BY A DISTANCE and No one in the media gives him any credit

[@Coldskin1]

underrated say people even slandering him as a passer🤦‍♀

[@steved9999]

I agree

[@XMAN4708]

He is underrated, but I believe Alexander English is more underrated!

[@tylersisko1290]

Jay wants to be Stephen A with his reactions, he’s mad annoying

[@enyawdllerret6972]

Tyler Sisko yeeees.... he just need to stop! It’s never gonna happen😭😭😭

[@IB4..]

Tyler Sisko idk why everyone talk about curry better than Westbrook, they say go to the stats but Westbrook is well past him in points, assists, rebounds, steals, the only thing curry has that he is beating him in is FG percentage but then when they say in court Westbrook still is a better scorer and if everyone wasn’t shooting threes then there will be no discussion cause then curry can’t thrive and if curry played back then he will literally be Steve Kerr and nothin more if Westbrook was to play back then he will still be great and u can’t argue with that the only thing curry has over him is the rings which I can agree on but if Westbrook has a ring or two he will definitely be bette even Jordan said curry will not be a hall of famer

[@garrettlewis5485]

@@IB4.. Curry plays in system where everyone passes the ball so his assist will always be down compared to Russ. This coming from a Thunder and Westbrook fan

[@fallou114]

Garrett Lewis he gotta be playing look at that last line 🤦🏿‍♂️

[@southphillyspud31]

Why would he want to be Steven? Jay was once the best college player in the country, he was the #1 pick in the NBA draft.. If anything Steven wishes he could be Jay

[@Bendu731]

Gary Payton said John Stockton was the hardest person he ever had to play against because he always played perfect basketball.

[@SuperWearethed]

Luke Einsel Gary was drafted in 1990 so he never really played against isaiah so using him as proof is completely biased and doesn’t prove your point.

[@sohrabnavahandi3974]

@@SuperWearethed wait a second, didnt Thomas retire in 1994 and the olympics were in 1992.

[@yakuzacreator]

Sohrab Navahandi he was talking about a prime Isaiah he wasn’t as good when Gary played him

[@nothanksbro420]

Courtney Stovall Bro Gary Payton played against prime Isiah Thomas

[@SuperWearethed]

Sohrab Navahandi If you read what i said careful you would have seen I said he never really played against him, the year Isaiah won his last championship Gary payton was drafted a month later so that leave Gary 4 season to play against him and we all know that wasnt prime isaiah and john was drafted in 84 so gary actually played against john more while john was in his prime. So its biased and dont prove who was harder to guard considering that he played john in his prime and not isaiah

[@77thNYSV]

SAS needs to give up that UFC card before he calls for Max's NBA card.

[@rickyvandusen1744]

SAS was right!!

[@pb7even]

Ricky VanDusen about what the UFC cause if so you tripping

[@Ilovechicago100]

🤔

[@chrisper3148]

he was right about Cowboy not wanting to be in the fight against connor

[@GrindhouseHQ]

PhieldBoy7evn Lol actually he was right. Look up cowboys latest interview about the Connor fight from couple days ago. Everything He said straight up made SAS correct on the situation. Was tragic

[@travis5264]

I'm with Max on this one

[@Cts_99]

@Darren Cernansky cap. Jordan knew it also

[@608Audit]

Lol okay John Stockton good but not close to IT

[@sol74098]

They are diminishing John Stockton’s career. John S was an all time great.

[@jknumber5138]

sol74098 Never won a ring. John could've went to the Lakers and loss like his team mate. He tapped out and retired. This is what happens when you leave without a ring😂

[@UnexpectedWonder]

Absolutely! 😁😁😊😊

[@DesignerBass]

Nope bruh it's facts Carl Malone was the key to everything. Where is Carl Malone on the nba scoring list?

[@markbrinton6790]

So what if he didn't win a ring, he had Malone, and that's mostly all. Hornacek was a shell of himself, Thomas had loads of help.

[@almightyprofessor]

Lee Cambell Where is Stockton on the assist list?

[@TheBengalsMind]

Max: "Isiah was better, but let's put some respect on Stocktons name." Jay & SAS: "Do you even realize Isiah was better?" "I guess not because you never played the game." Max: "Wait, what?"

[@stephenasunnamedsource2943]

No the problem is Max doesnt understand the percentage of assist that Stockton got from Malone. Its not close. You can argue that Stockton was the better defensive player but Zeke was averaging double digit assist without that. His assist stats would be insane.

[@execdecision2647]

BigBody Rico If you just read stats Stockton was better, this is why the eye test matters. He did not have the ability to take over a game like Isiah Thomas. There’s a decent size skill gap there.

[@wirth6]

@@stephenasunnamedsource2943 Yes, he averaged double digit assists... in the eighties. The Olympics were in 1992 though.

[@keysersoze6330]

Stockton is for me the best point guard of all time and people are talking that isiah is better than him is ridicilous

[@neilnuqui5186]

😆

[@carlhyde1435]

Max dropping fact bombs on these 2🤣

[@kc-sm5qu]

I disagree with Stephen A and jay will on this one. The system that John and karl played in allowed both of them to be great. But the system needed a more willing passer which is what John stockton was so I don't think it's that easy to just say if isaiah and karl malone were together it would be the same or better because we just don't know. Not to mention isaiah thomas was a ball dominant gaurd who needed the ball that's a lot harder to play with them someone like stockton who's looking to pass and get teammates involved.

[@AcrobaticAlien88]

I can’t believe he just said stocktons success was primarily because of Malone? My god the disrespect. Ask those who played against him how great Stockton was

[@timocruz510]

They also act like Malone was just carrying Stockton the entire time... not like Malone benefited from Stockton's presence or anything... you think Malone would have that 36000 w/o Stock?? I bet Malone himself would be shakin' his head at the Stock disrespect.

[@ariesking1036]

It could go either way ask Malone who was throwing all them dimes to him only the all time assist leader

[@Godzilla2014_]

Aj Pope so Stockton in your top 5 point guards ?

[@DominiqueWilliams-ue3rx]

@@ariesking1036 stockton isnt on isaiahs level

[@AcrobaticAlien88]

Ezekiel Jones if you consider west and Iverson 2 guards then yes he’s in the top 5

[@worldstarvideos8867]

MAX is 100% Right, ISIAH is Better but not my Alot..The problem is these ANALYST always Defend the Players they liked when they was Kids!! MAX is Spitting FACTS and they cant handle it!!

[@ChiTownWarrior1]

You right.

[@razorramon5937]

Faaaacts

[@lovejoymachingura6905]

Yh Max is more emotionally intelligent

[@kunlefaseru]

Isiah had 0 offensive threats on his team, John had one of the greatest power forwards to ever play the game.

[@eldio2124]

Isiah was better end of the debate. Stockton asked Isiah to introduce him to the hall of fame for a reason

[@AkshayG20]

The thumbnail is so good. Max sitting all innocent while Stephen A and Jay lose their minds

[@Iversonwings1]

Truly a microcosm of America

[@cimi93x]

he's so smug when he says "you're making absurd accusations" lol

[@UnexpectedWonder]

Absolutely!

[@g_superson1c255]

that’s all first take has come down to these days, this documentary is ruining first take to a degree

[@gvinz797]

How dare he go against a black man. He is their brother.

[@DavidSmith-nm7un]

Stockton owns the assist record and the steals record. Those are two of the five main recordable stats in the game of basketball.

[@MultiRjizzle]

SAS: “You’re talking, you ain’t listening” as he misses the point and talks over Max

[@UnexpectedWonder]

Absolutely!

[@jeruakel]

So you sayin max is right?

[@kingcurt323]

@@jeruakel that part!

[@colesnyder2496]

@@jeruakel yup

[@ankletaker2729]

Jeru Akel yes, he said “Isiah over Stockton by a hair” What’s is the issue? Do they want him to play with scrubs to prove he’s good like that makes no sense.

[@legendofnoob]

Scottie had Michael Jordan, you don't see him averaging 20 assists.

[@Samuel-zo5eq]

Shawn Wang bruh no one would even avg 10 assist per game in a triangle offense.

[@CBarber22]

Michael Jordan was not a screen and roller/popper, he created his own baskets and you don't get an assist for that.

[@juicejuice5013]

You mean Jeremy Lin played with Carmelo you don’t see him getting 20 assists

[@mauricejones1041]

Please stop talking ball

[@dthreezy]

@@Samuel-zo5eq u seem to actually understand the game of basketball 💪🏾

[@ShadomanG]

They always try to "Brotha" Max into a corner, bully him. But I hear him. Isiah Thomas is probably the 2nd greatest pg of all time (Curry & others may have something to say when they retire). The only REAL reason Isiah was off the team is because the BIG dawgs such as Magic & Jordan weren't' w/it. But Stockton is a GREAT pg as far as true pg's go.

[@attainingknowledgeoftruth8348]

@ ShadomanG, Gary Payton and Steve Nash were better pg’s than Stockton.

[@ShadomanG]

Attaining Knowledge of Truth I don’t disagree. One should put J.Kidd in that convo as he did it all. I’d take Zeke over him, but I just don’t think we can dismiss Stockton’s accomplishments.

[@attainingknowledgeoftruth8348]

@ ShadomanG, It’s a sad day when people try to compare a player who lead his team to multiple championships with another player who never won anything but statistical categories.

[@shaka2352]

@@attainingknowledgeoftruth8348 The problem is, Isiah is a leader. So is Magic, so is Jordan. Too many chiefs, not enough Indians. Stockton makes too much more sense when you think about ego's on the court, he only ever wanted to pass the ball. Its a sad day for the game when you choose a team only based on how good everyone is individually in 1v1. When a team like that plays a team built to function as a unit, you get the difference between the 04 Lakers and 04 Pistons.

[@SJ23og]

How dare they sell Stockton short. The man leads two all time categories.

[@DawgDaze_Gaming]

It’s all bc he’s white and they are much closer to IT than John

[@123slasher.16]

Here's the best stat. Isiah Thomas -3 NCAA and NBA titles combined. John Stockton -0 NCAA and NBA titles combined in a longer college career and a longer NBA career.

[@SJ23og]

@@123slasher.16 must be an old head talking about championship numbers like that.

[@123slasher.16]

@@SJ23og hey what did those stats lead to? Isiah's play LED to titles on 2 levels, MOP and MVP honors on both. That's the most important stat-winning.

[@SJ23og]

@@123slasher.16 that narrative is over used. By your logic, Rodman is greater than Zeke because he has more titles and was monumental in getting them. Firstly, your championship stat means nothing to me because I’ve never talked about Stockton being better than Thomas. Secondly, let’s not act like Stock wasn’t a legend himself. Correct me if I’m wrong, but he’s never had a losing nba season.

[@phxmiller]

Never forget that Gary “The Glove” Payton said that Stockton was the most difficult player he had to guard. And GP played against Jordan.

[@TimDog-ge8bd]

Marcus Miller stupid argument, Payton came in the leave in 1990, Thomas was on the decline, Payton and Stockton was on the west played against each other hundreds of time, I can bring up a lot of players who say Zeke is better, so this logic is stupid

[@Thatboygtmike]

It’s a bad argument because we know Jordan was cooking him more than Stockton

[@issacjones4237]

@@TimDog-ge8bd hows is stupid when wilt,magic,kidd, Barkley all rank him at the top

[@normajeaneason6983]

But the glove couldn't win against Jordan twice. He got his ring not through Jordan

[@jamesjurgens439]

Stockton was amazing most assists ever and most steals they’re acting like he was horrible

[@Threesom666]

James Jurgens they dont know basketball.

[@pielucas439]

I grew up in the 80's & 90's, Stockton was like a pitbull. Can't believe how underrated he is

[@Threesom666]

Nahbro Bro yea but Isiah also actually had a team of tough supporting cast. While the jazz had to go against Jordan and the league. I mean I team my had off the pistons they did it against totally dominant teams but rings aint everything and if we go players they’d all say Jordan.

[@nicmagtaan1132]

@@Threesom666 isiah idk defeated jordan though with bird and magic in the same playoff run

[@jareds_84]

Threesom666 huh....? Thomas never had a Karl Malone on his team. And IT beat Jordan.. and Magic.. and Bird..🤣

[@janikmcmahon2536]

Why Stephen A gotta attack max and call him beatlejuice, you know you’ve lost an argument when you start to result to insults

[@lightonorganic4789]

He’s tryna be more entertaining since Skip left but nothing can replace the beautiful entertaining ignorance that man spews, you really believe he believes he’s a great sport analyst, it’s the most frustrating yet captivating thing to watch in sports entertainment 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@the_9th_power873]

I would punch Smith in the face if I was Max.

[@martinonuegbu1384]

Lighton Organic Stephen A been like that... he used to call Skip the Joker with his pointed nose

[@securethebaggg]

Dreddy_Rayay999 and u would get fired

[@coreydarden4959]

He said beatlejuice eyes👀👀😂😂

[@mobrown1198]

Isiah Thomas was more skilled than Stockton. However, that doesn't automatically make him a better player. Stockton was an amazing player. When former players who matched up against him, they talk about Stockton with superlatives and you hear phrases such as "grossly underrated" , tough as nails, strong and smart. etc etc..... • Derrick Coleman was more skilled, had more natural talent than Karl Malone, so did Shawn Kemp, does that make them better than Karl Malone? NO. They same thing can be applied to John Stockton. • For the youngsters John Stockton played with Jeff Malone early in his career and Jeff Hornacek, later in his career. Both were Tremendous shooters (look them up) Stockton also made players such as Byron Russell, Chris Morris and a host of other swingman/small forward types better. Most of those players RARELY experienced the same amount of success without Stockton. • Isiah Thomas was one of my favorite players ever, but he and Stockton were equals. Thomas more skilled, and physically talented, but Stockton was a tireless worker with a tremendous basketball IQ and a great facilitator. People tend to forget that Stockton made the NBA all defensive team 5X. Quite a feat for a 6'1 175 "unathletic" white guy. Put some respect on that man's name!

[@Tbxthegreat]

I hear nothing but fax

[@rano2613]

I would only add two things: 1. A guy named Gary Payton said that Stockton was second after MJ to guard. Ppl should check Gary HoF ceremony and look up hwo standing in stage with him. 2. Isiah "I love myself" Thomas spoke highly about Stockton.

[@Threesom666]

Ra No Um, correction, he said he was no.1.

[@jimries625]

No rings

[@jimries625]

No rings

[@JPNightsClub]

Jay Williams is trying to take Ryan Hollins position of CLOWN.

[@its_achilles_yo1128]

Is it also because of Malone that Stockton is the all time steals leader by about 600 steals over 2nd place? Totally agree with Max

[@harlemsoulja]

King Stan lmaoo what

[@elitemaster8534]

King Stan u dead wrong bout that 😂😂😂💀💀

[@synkazi7733]

@King Stan could say the same with you about the opposite argument. Go play in traffic

[@hcab1479]

@King Stan and you share the same as Stephen A any Jay Williams. Everybody is in their feelings because Max said Isiah Thomas was only slightly better than John Stockton.

[@daswolio3204]

King Stan spoken like a true racist

[@YoungReela]

Max is right and they can’t stand it

[@thehappysmiler6752]

Nah! Max is riding with Stockton because they are both white boys. Isiah Thomas beat Jordan, Bird and Magic in their prime and led the Pistons to two titles. I might be wrong but I also believe that Isiah has got a winning head to head record against those three superstars. Isiah was the truth.

[@timmatteson3460]

TheHappySmiler should’ve been a 3 peat 🤦‍♂️

[@andrewschau465]

At the end when max goes “Liar”😂😂😂😂

[@Terrashield]

Yea Max speaking Facts over there. You ain’t just taking Thomas by a landslide. Defense doesn’t require Karl Malone. SMH

[@antoniogreen9176]

This man had one great player oppose to isiah having like 4 lmao

[@togbehpeter3846]

antonio green four role players big difference

[@Terrashield]

King Stan fam I was born in 88. And it ain’t nothing to go back and watch theses games again. STFU and just keep movin

[@eldio2124]

antonio green Karl Malone was by far better than anyone Isiah played with. Dennis rodman had no offense to speak of at Detroit

[@אהרון-כ2ס]

Isiah played on one of the best defensive teams in history lmao

[@mattyice1151]

John Stockton the all time assist and steals leader 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@kewan2045]

Matt L So! That’s longevity I’ll take Prime Isaiah all day. Way more versatile.

[@DominiqueWilliams-ue3rx]

@@kewan2045 itsno comparison

[@Threesom666]

Kewan um he was also leader in seasons of course.

[@whitejosh444]

I just posted the same thing before I saw yours lol

[@kewan2045]

6ft 2hunnid You’re right Thomas was better 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@moializee6872]

"HE HAD MALONE" "I felt stockton made malone, I don't think he would of been the same player if he didn't have a stockton - Isiah thomas" (he said this on one of the inside nba episodes were they were comparing players in the "game today" that were similar to them when they played)

[@chandthrukanagarajah]

Exactly! They are trying to argue in favour of isiah using an arguement that isiah disputed when he said Stockton made malone lol. I love how they act like max is wrong. Max is on the money. He said he would take isiah but it would be very close and I agree

[@Javai7]

@@chandthrukanagarajah Not only is Max on the money, I noticed they never touched the 5 times Stockton was All-NBA in defense and Isiah never was. Defense is a huge part of playing the game and a huge part of greatness.

[@rickbriss33]

So Isaiah himself said this... But they're telling Max that Stockton was benefiting from Malone in an attempt to lift Isaiah over Stockton?

[@chandthrukanagarajah]

@@Javai7 exactly! I cant stand jay will. He hates the rings arguement for lebron because it goes against lebron vs michael, but the only reason these guys are giving putting isiah way head of stockton is because of his 2 rings. Max is also still choosing isiah, and they flipping on him like he said that Stockton is better than isiah.

[@drakkn52]

@@chandthrukanagarajah ur right max said hes takin isiah i dont understand the outrage

[@devilfish3034]

Stockton was more of a leader on that team than Malone.

[@judgedredd6559]

This show should be called teaming up on Max 😂.

[@17thN.O]

First Take Handicap Match against Max should be the shows' name.

[@handymandy20]

Steven a has officially lost his mind!!!

[@mtmd1042]

Some of these commentators are just trying to generate controversy, but others genuinely have a problem with modern, analytical basketball. The good news: Jordan is still the GOAT. The bad news? That inefficient shot-jacker you once idolized doesn't look so good in retrospect.

[@michellediaferio1513]

@@mtmd1042 Who's that inefficient shot-jacker you're talking about?

[@terrymoore4685]

@@michellediaferio1513 exactly I wanna know to!

[@momenkhan8838]

He lost his mind the day he talked with KDs mom

[@xaviervega468]

@@michellediaferio1513 The early 2000's was full of them. They were all trying to play like Michael Jordan and weren't nearly as good at it.

[@HunchoHamza]

This argument is stupid Max is right idk why they jumping him like he’s wrong 🤦🏾‍♂️ Stockton played longer and better for a longer period of time! And we can’t fault him for having a great player on his team Magic has Kareem Kobe and Shaq has each other 🤷🏾‍♂️ Larry had Malone nobody wants to take away their credit! It’s a close call but yea Isiah and his prime is better by a hair Stockton only player that can say he leads the NBA in 2 stats all time Assist and Steals very important stats in the game of basketball 💯

[@josephstalin5668]

Max is always right stephen a is always wrong lol but at that time isiah was still better than stockton

[@Theycallmekenney]

Natsu .D. Uzamaki at THAT TIME Stockton was not better than Isiah....it wasn’t even close. Now after 1998 fine but in 1992 Stockton wasn’t on Isiah’s level.

[@luiserazo3292]

Agree, John Stockton is a true all star and a legend!

[@stopwatchingme9584]

You must be a white boy

[@tsurod]

@gullyroad maybe but it is not a no brainer like they trying to make it out to be. Stockton's numbers are on par and in some cases better than Isiah's.

[@americandesi2k5]

Max is right. Detroit had weapons too. Stockton's defense matters.

[@joshmedrano513]

Tyrie Reid joe dumars

[@naajhass9105]

@@joshmedrano513 Joe Dumars was a "weapon"?? No knock to Joe Dumars, but he was a 6'4 shooting guard, a great role player, and played great defense on guards, but come on dude. You comparing Dumars to Karl Malone, not even close. Stop it.

[@__anonym0us__]

The stockton disrespect is insane. Noone knocks magic for having kareem, worthy, etc

[@JPNightsClub]

Great point.

[@thomaspitts5161]

Nobody is saying that Stockton isn't great. Stockton is a great great point guard. But he's not Zeke. That's just a fact.

[@Sg6CrossOver]

Yeah, the shade is stupid, Magic had the Second greatest player in Kareem on top of a stacked roster.

[@Sg6CrossOver]

@@thomaspitts5161 Zeke is better, But, Max is right by a hair.

[@b.x.2845]

That's because Magic was the best player on that Lakers team, it was him leading the team to chips, plus Jabbar was a shadow of his former self. The best player on the Jazz was Malone, not Stockton.

[@AaaA-ec4sq]

So now we’re faulting Stockton for having a great teammate?? Where is the same energy for players like Tim Duncan, who has never been without a great supporting cast. Or what about Lebron who has played with a bunch of current and future hall of Famers? What about Magic who had Kareem?

[@clydegholston8950]

Stockton never won anything.

[@dantehall9554]

What about Jordan he had Pippin

[@xaviervega468]

Or Isiah with Joe Dumars

[@MegaPat223]

jordan christol it had 3 stars on his team. Stop this

[@FireAngelChris]

Lol people fault Bron for having teammates 24/7 a lot of times they say he got carried,sometimes I hear this for Tim Duncan. I get your point though

[@fabriziolorenzo2392]

"StOcKtOn HaD mAlOnE" They said, acting like Stock needed Malone to become the all time leader in steals I'm so tired of these sports talk show clowns trying to diminish an all-time great's achievements by pointing to the fact that they had another all-timer on their team, no matter what sport they're talking about. SAS wants to rag on people for being disrespectful, how they talked about Stockton was as flagrant a display of disrespect as I've seen, and that's saying a lot.

[@rayj1013]

no but he needed him to become the all time leader in assists and most of his all nba selections.

[@cormel6895]

How do they know Malone didn’t need Stockton to get 2 MVPs.

[@melvinhhcp3615]

@@rayj1013 No, he didn't. Stockton was a true PG. He was gonna who he was regardless if Malone was there or not.

[@flexhenry3]

@@cormel6895 if you swamp stockton with steve nash, Karl's number's go up even more

[@imrulfarhanpritom6864]

Isaiah is way better than stockton and stockton knows it too thats why he asked isaiah to present in HOF

[@Li-eh7cd]

Max debates, never argues. His points are clear and cogent even when everyone tries to get on the bandwagon to try and bully him into conceding his point but he's a fearless truth teller. The man deserves respect. - Sending support from Malaysia!

[@EvanderTrolyfield]

Except when it comes to Tom Brady

[@noicemate9111]

@@EvanderTrolyfieldbecause he openly hates Boston sports. Different situation

[@moco3476]

Why is Stocktons brilliance being used against him?😂

[@joeclark2201]

Mo Co34 right, sas was saying he has all day to shoot because everyone was scared of his passing ability lol

[@JoeC818PureBlood]

Because he's WHITE. Isn't it obvious.

[@each1teach1academy43]

Don’t know how much better he was than Price not close to Isaiah

[@wanaiobannon9833]

@@each1teach1academy43 what???? John Stockton??? Wayyy better than mark price not better than Zeke but he is def a legend...we gotta put some respect on Stockton name

[@MylezDaBadGuy]

GOOD I love it. People always love to throw shots at our great Legends like Bill Russell, Wilt, Kareem. Wilt is the Best Individual player ever and they constantly disrespect him, John Stockton (no rings by the way) gets called out and people can't handle it. Welcome to the Club

[@jpbm1873]

When The Glove says that Stockton was harder to guard than MJ then you know that Stockton is up there with the best PGs to ever play the game.

[@redondowarrior3470]

Jp Bm LMAO both you and Payton are deffo tripping. MJ was averaging like 30 in the playoffs versus the sonics!😂

[@jessetekalandon]

He was great...Isaiah is one of the top three point guard of all times bro. I'll give Stockton top 50...maybe top 25...maybe.

[@dudaricks12]

Payton said that because Stockton would not respond to his trash talk and he had little dirty tricks.

[@shaka2352]

@@redondowarrior3470 Nahh, think about it. When you play Jordan, you're up to the impossible task of stopping the ball from getting to the target, the hoop, but at least you were defending only one hoop. With Stockton, he doesn't care about the hoop, he's trying to pass the ball to his teammates. That means that defenders spend the entire game guarding four targets, five if you give him too much space for his jumper. As a true defender, you want to stop your opponent from playing his game. That's why defenders like to trash talk (Patrick Beverley, the Glove, Draymond etc.) because they want you to stop playing the game and focus on their antics. But Stockton's game was passing, and with the bully Mailman Malone, nobody was stopping that. He's not an iso GOAT, but the man knew how to do what he was supposed to do.

[@mattalexsportspodcast618]

Because there’s 2 sides of the ball. 🧤 speaks truth.

[@ahussein151]

Max stated facts and these guys got their feelings hurt so they just disrespect Max and don’t even acknowledge the points he was making🤦🏾‍♂️

[@caitlynj7466]

Max clearly has higher IQ, but in terms of basketball knowledge and intuition, SAS is right.

[@SL-pg4dh]

Stephen thinks he has more authority on basketball because he is black. He thinks basketball is a black man’s sport.

[@Manu-qq2im]

serge lefleur he’s wrong if he thinks that he has more authority on basketball but black people are really the ones who carry the nba. There are great white players too but c’mon now.

[@Manu-qq2im]

Rico Wright you mean isiah thomas

[@clintmcneil6576]

@Rico Wright luv dat comment gee am not an ISIAH fan cuz he disses d greatest ever MJ lolll but he is better than Stockton and more enjoyable to watch hands down than Stockton

[@thefighter5182]

Max Kellerman is right. Because if not then Stephen A and J Will don't need to react that way. Because it still proves that Max Kellerman is right.

[@Julio_Zero]

Max arguing with straight facts and Stephen A and Jay arguing with emotion. Max wins this debate

[@mycolortv1]

..Which is 1 year more then Max

[@yzushtifa7032]

steven A your not on max level when it comes to basketball either

[@Munyunequalsfunyun]

When max says something smart about basketball they never let him have it

[@LaVishWon]

Max didn't say shyt smart about basketball in this clip at ALL!!!

[@elchoppa2346]

Max has never played in his life that’s why while jay and Stephen a both played college ball

[@iagosuarez6429]

@@elchoppa2346 that doesn't mean he can't give his opinion on it tho...

[@Justsegarra]

EL Choppa Stephen A's playing career is nothing to marvel at.

[@iagosuarez6429]

@@Justsegarra neither is Jay Williams' lol. He played 1 year in the nba

[@Ed_313]

Stockton is one of my favorites all time and I’m from Detroit 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@bOmBAsTiK]

Sellout. You must'a grew up in Dearborn 😂😂😂

[@DreMurf313]

LMAO!!🤣🤣🤣 I'm from Detroit as well & I agree. John Stockton was a BEAST at the PG position.

[@naajhass9105]

Favorites, okay cool, but better than Isiah? Stockton was a great, but saying he was better than Zeke, you can't be from the D if you think that bruh. lol

[@VaughnJogVlog]

John Stockton: NBA’s all-time leader in assists AND steals. First Take: Not Black enough.

[@jknumber5138]

VaughnJogVlog Jason Kidd is still better. I can't imagine John taking the Nets to the finals😂

[@smittyj383]

VaughnJogVlog It’s not that he’s not bloc enough. Stockton is not in Isiah stratosphere

[@Dommy521]

thanks to karl Malone

[@jorgenrexolson6451]

You’re right, Stockton is in a higher stratosphere. Isiah is overrated because he won 2 ships. But that by itself doesn’t mean he was the better player. Steve Kerr has more rings than both Isiah or Stockton, but that doesn’t mean he was better. Look at the numbers before you say things. Stockton was by far the more efficient scorer, better playmaker, better shooter, better defender, etc. Isiah scored more primarily because he took more shots.

[@Imichaelperry]

23 pts 14 ast thats what zeke avg in 85 theres levels to it and zeke was on another level nothing to do with skin color

[@chip9662]

If I was max I’d complain about this unwarranted hate towards him

[@killerra]

Max knows that he wins when people watch the footage back and really think about his position.

[@mmustap3]

It truly is hate

[@isaacwhittaker5036]

Yeah I’m actually siding with max, they high key disrespecting Stockton

[@shlidgn90]

Isaac Whittaker no they aren’t. Isaiah beat the best players on the dream team in the playoffs.

[@DominiqueWilliams-ue3rx]

@@shlidgn90 exactly

[@DominiqueWilliams-ue3rx]

Did johnyy beat mj to win a ring cause isiah beat magoc bird n mj. Johnny isnt on isiahs level

[@A1Hoopz]

It’s not that close between Isiah and Stockton. Isiah won two championships, he beat Bird in the playoffs, he beat Jordan 3x, he beat Clyde Drexler. Isiah has a finals MVP. Idk what max is talking about

[@jamesmup]

SAS “you talking you ain’t listening” that fool does that all the time

[@genericbeats7979]

Right? Max was just responding to his argument

[@genericbeats7979]

@Jiggy Thanos Yeah you can disagree with max but stephen a is just resorting to petty personal attacks

[@ColinPomory]

Stephen A hates when Max talks about sports

[@JohnSnowjrjr]

Max can't talk BBAll lol

[@ColinPomory]

1maddd2mackxxck 1baaadmackxxx okay

[@fuddyduddie1205]

Colin Pomory that’s because Max always clowns him for his lack of boxing knowledge so he tries to one up Max in other sports.

[@usuitakumi8673]

what? Stephen just praise Max about Max is so good when it comes to boxing. You must be talking about basketball

[@ColinPomory]

Fuddyduddie1 yeah

[@jameswatson2507]

First time I agree with max the world is changing.

[@barrycunningham9360]

lol I know right

[@drepowell4365]

Unidentified Name you’re on crack. Isaiah was better than Stockton.

[@dpugs9740]

Dre Powell cap

[@matthewpage8358]

@@dpugs9740 i would rather have isiah thomas lead my team instead of Stockton

[@timocruz510]

@@drepowell4365 Isiah was better. But it is pretty close. I guess Karl gave Stock all of his steals too?? Don't disrespect Stock.

[@myjourney5753]

Stockton averaged 13.1 points per game, for a career. Stockton never proved he could be the man on a team. He was a very good point guard. No more, No less.

[@albertgraham2250]

John stockton would be legend playing with anyone. He taught me how a real point guard plays

[@tonegee1083]

Well we could say that but we never seen stocken without Malone so that's easy to say John would have been great anyways ijs💯

[@LJ023]

Agree, but he is not even close to Isiah, still I think he can make the top 10 point guards of all time, I will need to check the list after this 4 , Magic,Curry,Isiah and Oscar.

[@DominiqueWilliams-ue3rx]

@@LJ023 magic isiah curry then oscar

[@nhutpham3556]

@@tonegee1083 I think it the small sample of games Stockton played without Malone, he averaged 10.3 assists/game instead of his career average of 10.5.

[@sanantoballa4834]

Nhut Pham He actually played his rookie year without Malone and averaged 5.1 assists.

[@DreammakerFTW]

IT literally said himself that Stockton made Malone and that there wouldn’t be Malone without Stockton, so gtfo jay williams and stop acting like Malone was the clear cut best player on that team because he wasn’t. And tbh SAS, max compels much better BASKETBALL arguments with facts and statistics and not extremely subjective claims that have value at all, so stop acting like he knows nothing when in reality, you know nothing.

[@Threesom666]

ReflexTV both those dumbasses all they do is jell and insult because they dont know wat their talking about.

[@corbinnoble5469]

Malone was doing it before and after Stockton. Stockton on the bench and nothing changed.

[@DreMurf313]

Malone was good but Stockton made him great!! The reason why Utah lost 2× in the finals is because THE MAILMAN COULDN'T DELIVER!! It had absolutely nothing to do with Stock.

[@Threesom666]

Dre Murf 313 Malone was good but I always thought he was always overhyped. He couldn’t deliver even with all-star Lakers.

[@Ah-ws9nm]

Dre Murf 313 Stockton played like utter garbage in the 98 finals tho. In 97 Malone outplayed him as well tho Stockton played decently

[@trip9755]

When MJ was asked who he hated to guard most he said.... John Stockton. Max is not wrong for sayin I.T is not that much better

[@derekthompson5731]

Max is wrong for saying he'd take Isaiah by a hair. If he were braver, he should say he'd take Stockton by a whole head of hair. Stockton was clearly the better player - I would argue overall, but DEFINITELY better by 1991-92. The data don't lie... or throw tantrums like these two. Max has the strongest argument here.

[@zwem6]

Gary Payton also said that Stockton was the hardest player he had to guard..

[@mikehowza]

There is no comparison. One of these guys began as the singular seed to a franchise with really no history of note, played in the most physical conference in the history of basketball and against 3 of the greatest dynasties the league has ever seen and beat them all. The other played in a much less physical conference (allowing him to play longer) and piled up stats. MJ,Gary Payton go ahead and name them all. Isiah snatched there hearts. Detroit VS. Everybody started with BadBoys and ain’t nothing changed. Stockton’s achievements are statistical. Who he beat? What Titles he win? Conversation over.

[@kewan2045]

trippy Mane because pick and roll!!! Running into Karl Malone and others all day was no fun. They said the same thing about Reggie Miller because he ran around screens all day.

[@patrickmaher3907]

​@@mikehowza You could say the exact same thing about Karl Malone himself then that makes no sense. Malone is second in points, seventh in rebounds, and people forget he is eleventh in all-time steals too. Didn't win a title ever and yet he's considered a top 3, maybe 5 power forward ever. Stockton is first by miles in assists and steals and he was an incredibly efficient scorer too, the ONLY players to score more points than him more and be more efficient are Shaq, Kareem, Dantley, Barkley, and Miller. Maybe Thomas was a little better in his prime but "no comparison?" That's ridiculous.

[@yannirivera5475]

The problem about that was Isaiah disrespected the bulls and plus dream team had a lot of scorers so Stockton would have been best as a facilitator for them

[@Jeff_2x]

Stephen A is the type of person who always thinks he’s right

[@Sergioo951]

Jay acts like he played in the nba for ever.

[@fuddyduddie1205]

Sergio Uriarte he was no better than Jordan Clarkson. He acts like he was Westbrook or someone.

[@petritdamani5345]

🤭

[@John-ym9ic]

I know right

[@enyawdllerret6972]

Sergio Uriarte faaaaaacts!

[@The_favorite_Uncle]

@@fuddyduddie1205 he only counts the duke days😂

[@jasondye9565]

Stockton was awesome, I almost can’t watch this show anymore cause of Stephen and his lil apprentice jay

[@youngboyxaj6692]

He was, but not on Zeke’s level don’t let the MJ doc fool you...

[@calvindiprete9947]

B Fresh facts

[@Justrob34]

John Stockton leads the league in assist to this day. Nobody is touching his record. Yes, he had Karl Malone, but is it safe to say that maybe Karl also relied on Stockton’s vision and willingness to share the basketball? Out of a 19 year NBA career Stockton only missed 22 games! That’s insane! Basketball is more than just stats, it’s toughness and grit, and John was that. I would take John over Isiah.

[@questionitall3053]

But, Malone also had Stockton aswell.