First Time at Greek Orthodox Church! --- Skeptic Sunday #3

[@BunsBooks]

I highly recommend attending the midnight Paschal service (easter) in a church that does it in English, such as OCA or Antiochian. Even my atheist friends love coming to that service because it is so beautiful, and then we party in the fellowship hall till 4am

[@DaCaldwell]

Paschal is so wonderful! I'm looking forward to the Nativity Vigil tonight as a foretaste of Pascha! Christ is born!

[@fr.johnwhiteford6194]

The meal after the Liturgy is really a continuation of the Liturgy. If you go again, you should participate. No one will be offended that you are not a member of the Church.

[@psyche8187]

I’m Orthodox and I really appreciate your reflections. As foreign as it might have been to you, you definitely painted a really accurate picture of the Divine Liturgy.

[@echondo7637]

I think you would benefit greatly from watching Matt Whitman's videos on him visiting an Orthodox Church. Fr. Truebenbach does an amazing job answering his questions and showing him around the church.

[@DaCaldwell]

As an Orthodox Christian, listening to you shows me that you have great instincts. Orthodoxy and Protestantism (I was Baptist) are very different. Great video!

[@michaellopez4358]

Hey! There are more Orthodox Christians here than I thought! I came to say that there is only one thing that you *can't* participate in as a "non-memeber," and that's the eucharist. Everything else is completely open! Go to coffee hour, or luncheon, or whatever that particular parish calls it. That's there to introduce you to the actual church-the people! God bless everyone on their journey. May he keep and guide you, and may the truth be ignited in your hearts. Merry Christmas!

[@ethaneichelberger1717]

Thank you for exploring Orthodoxy, and I’m glad to hear you had a positive experience. Orthodoxy is currently experiencing an interesting historical moment here in the United States. Most Orthodox churches in the US were brought over by different immigrant groups who viewed their church as a way of maintaining their language and culture in a foreign land. As immigration from traditionally Orthodox countries has declined and the children of immigrants have culturally assimilated, American Orthodoxy has faced somewhat of an identity crisis. Only in the last 30 years or so have many Orthodox churches switched to primarily English liturgies, and thus Orthodoxy has only recently began to embrace an American, outward-looking missionary character. The situation differs around the country, but by in large parishes that stick to the old ways and continue to emphasize their ethnic heritage are stagnating or declining. Parishes that embrace English language “American Orthodoxy” have (in many cases) been seeing unbelievable explosive growth in the last 4 years. I personally go to a Greek Orthodox parish, though I am not of Greek Heritage myself. Probably about half our congregation is of Greek heritage but with a very small minority of actual fluent Greek speakers. Many have called Orthodoxy “America’s Best Kept Secret”. Despite it being the second largest Christian denomination, often when I tell people I am Orthodox they assume I am Jewish. As all Protestant faiths stem from the intellectual heritage of Western Christianity (Roman Catholicism), which diverged from Orthodoxy close to a millenia ago, Orthodoxy remains deeply foreign to the American mind. Orthodox Christians not only physically express their faith differently (as you saw in the Divine Liturgy) and have different theology, but at a deeper level Orthodox Christians think about faith dramatically differently than both Protestants and Roman Catholics. Dr. Eugenia Constantinou talks about this at length in her terrific book “Thinking Orthodox”. Thank you for your respectful inquiry into Orthodoxy and for your continued commitment to thinking critically about religion.

[@jonf4287]

Lateness is very normal in the Orthodox Church. Its also very common, though frowned upon, for people to show up just for the Eucharist and then leave. There is also a subsect of people who only show up on Christmas, Pascha, and Pentecost.

[@Damascene749]

As an Orthodox Christian, you did a great job describing our Faith. I’d like to point out a couple of things for your future consideration if you ever decide to come back. 1- 95% of Churches don’t have greeters, there might be one person responsible for candles and selling stuff as you walk in but we don’t have this concept of a greeter, typically you can just walk without talking to anyone. 2- the morning services in the Greek/Antiochian tradition of Orthodoxy is to do Matins, which is approximately 1.5 to 2 hours, then liturgy which is another hour typically, most families don’t go to matins unless they are very serious about their faith. In the Russian/Slavic tradition in Orthodoxy, the matins portion is done the previous night attached with a short vespers (aka night prayer) Age of the parishioners will depend the church being convert heavy vs ethnic cradle (born Orthodox) heavy. My Church is 90% converts and it’s mostly young people under 30, because we are an English only parish. 3- Singing during the services varies widely, in Greek churches, some people will chant along in a low voice, Russians will loudly chant the “our Father”, Arabs won’t really sing, Romanians are similar to Greeks etc. but God will guide you if you choose to decide to seriously consider the Church.

[@psyche8187]

As an Orthodox coming from a baptist background. 11:58 Yeah. Most Orthodox priests aren’t strong orators. The homily isn’t the main thing in the service. In the Baptist church the sermon is the main thing. Baptists choose their churches largely based on the preaching.

[@fr.johnwhiteford6194]

Greeks do Matins prior to the Liturgy, and so if you arrived during Matins, that might explain why the number of people was thin. That's not a good habit, of course, but the other services outside of the Liturgy tend to have lower attendance.

[@melonyrobinson9944]

Very cool to see your perspective!

[@A.F.Armstrong]

If you get a chance attend a Latin mass, i'm interested in your thoughts.

[@alexbartschi602]

Its always interedting to see another perspective of my faith, great video!

[@hammingdad1]

I have not had the pleasure of attending a Greek Orthodox Church, so thank you for taking the pains to post this. It was really interesting. As for the use of the word 'ritual' it is not a problem. When Jesus performed miracles there was almost always a ritual. So there is nothing disrespectful about using that word. It can describe something ordinary or something miraculous... it merely delineates that there is an order and sequence.

[@SimplySkeptical22]

Thank you! And on ritual, I got some pushback for using that term before. Can't please everyone!

[@DaCaldwell]

Ritual is an appropriate socio-religious word for what the liturgy and associated sacraments are. Like you said, you can't please everyone. Love the video!

[@Querymonger]

@@SimplySkeptical22 Whoever got upset might have assumed that by "ritual" you meant it in the derogatory way that some Protestants do, when they say we Orthodox have "empty rituals." But the liturgy is a ritual, it's just not "empty" lol.

[@AL23809]

I’m an Orthodox Catechumen (meaning I’m becoming Orthodox but have not yet been received as a member of the Church) and I loved this video! I will say that, if you ever wanted to attend a liturgy in English alone, the OCA (Orthodox Church of America) does English liturgy! As for the choir, it seems to vary based on parish. At my Church, everyone who wants to sings along, and is encouraged to if they’re comfortable. However, I have been to others where mostly the choir was singing. Glad you got something out of your experience there!

[@AL23809]

Also your point on age was super interesting! I find that at a lot of Greek churches, it skews older. But at the OCA parishes I have visited, it skews very heavily towards young people (as in late teens/20’s/30’s). I would assume this might be because a lot of Greek parishes have many older Greek immigrants, but not entirely sure

[@Damascene749]

I found that to be true!

[@ethaneichelberger1717]

Also you were apt to note that yes, Greeks have a tendency to be less than punctual. This is much to the chagrin of my parish priest, who has to regularly remind parishioners to show up on time.

[@breddygud6890]

So glad everybody was welcoming when you visited. Yes being less punctual, operating on "Greek time," a cultural thing, although it still is preferred and encouraged to be at the Divine Liturgy on time. Indeed the Divine Liturgy is so beautiful (and long! But I honestly lose track of time) At my Greek Orthodox parish at least you would have been very welcome to eat with us and have fellowship, I can't speak for that one but you'd very likely be welcome then as well. Thanks for your honest thoughts.

[@GeorgesChannel]

Great video! I am greek orthodox living in another western country. The genuity, simplicity and welcoming you felt, is part of greek culture. The church in general is all about community with people and God, our first home if you want. I could write much more, but i leave you with your own impressions, which say more then 1000 words :) I encourage you to go the greek festival, you will have a great time there. A small correction: Doksa means Glory (not believe). Its about giving Glory to God in the right way (not to ourself). Wish you a Merry Christmas and to finally find what you are seeking :)

[@jimjatras1448]

Pretty good video. Too bad you didn't go to the lunch, though. Greeks genuinely enjoy being hospitable.

[@CuteCatVideos-h7r]

I have heard of some Divine Liturgies that have been 3 hours. That one was shorter compared to some of them.

[@Charmanber]

God bless! ☦

[@firmbiz000]

12:27 on the homily, the strong part is supposed to be the prayers. The Homily while important is not placed at the level of importance as in Protestant traditions. The Eucharist is the importance of the liturgy and the prayers all lead us to this moment in the worship.

[@nikostheater]

Hello from Crete, Greece! Merry Christmas, happy holidays to all. I will not comment on the specifics, because in general orthodoxy as a cradle orthodox in an orthodox country were orthodoxy is the default I suppose feels different than in a country we’re orthodoxy is relatively new or unknown, I’m fascinated though about your perspective. I liked the fact that you did your homework and you presented our faith as accurately as you could and thank you for that. Keep exploring and God willing you’ll come back to Orthodoxy as a believer! 😊 Again, congratulations for the good work and greetings from Crete!

[@markjz2011]

HAVE A MERRY HOLY CHRISTMAS! 🙏🏼

[@marvinmartinez3818]

Hi Simply Skeptical, just a thought from a catholic: on your point on the eloquence of the priest, while it would be ideal that the priest's words be compelling, it is not as essential as the priest's life being compelling. A common saying is the Catholic Church is, evangelize at all times, and if necessary use words. Also, from what I've heard about our Orthobros, they put a hugher emphasis on the mysticism of God (the unfathomable mysteries of God, who is infinitly more than what our minds can grasp) and theosis (becoming divine as God, not by our own power, but by letting God grace transform us). It certainly is a perspective complimentary to catholicism which can be more rational (explaining sound doctrine and grasping to understand as much as possible the essence of God) and really shows how Catholicism and Orthodoxy are the two lungs of the Church. By the way, in the Catholic Church, the Latin Church is the most common rite, but we also have many eastern rites, such as the Greek Catholic Church, which are basically the same as the Orthodox counterparts but in communion with the pope, even the same Orthodox practices and rituals.

[@patrickbarnes9874]

We have the Western Rite Vicariate which is the opposite. They are parishes within the Russian and Antiochian jurisdictions where they operate with essentially pre-Vatican II Catholic practices.

[@amybowman9906]

Orthodox convert here...Greek churches can sometimes feel ethnic. If you explore further you might feel more at home at an Antiochian or OCA parish. They tend to be predominately American converts. May God bless your journey!

[@fr.davidbibeau621]

Lots of young people are comeing into the Orthodox Church these days.

[@melonyrobinson9944]

In terms of the "people" in the service, anyone in the congregation is certainly allowed to join in, its just less common in many parishes, especially if the music is more chant-based rather than choral.

[@jackedinger8331]

I attended this same Greek Orthodox Church/liturgy about a month ago and I would have to agree with you on your experience.

[@tjmaverick1765]

I am a member of the non-instrumental Churches of Christ which came out of the American Restoration Movement, originally emphasizing Christian unity. We are best known for acapella singing in worship, weekly observance of the Lord's Supper/Communion, and adult baptism by immersion.

[@liraco_mx]

Happy you noticed the one key distinction of Catholicism and Orthodoxy: the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass (part of the "ritual" you mention). That's why they reiterate "don't receive if..." because the Mass is a sacrifice and what is being consumed is really Jesus, the true bread from Heaven, the fruit of eternal life. There's also Catholic churches that celebrate the "divine liturgy" as you experienced it, those that never separated or those that came back in communion with the Pope.

[@REXSPYMC]

This is a fairly informative video thank you, i would ask that if you’re going by largest Christian denominations try looking to a attend an Anglican church the tradition is very broad so there might be some churches that look very Roman Catholic or some that are closer to a baptist church in how they are ran but its the tradition I’m in and i find the liturgical practices to be very beautiful.

[@nikostheater]

I have to comment on some things (and I have to cheer you on , because you were very observant): for a liturgy to be performed, at least 2 people are required, a priest and at least one person, so usually the bare minimum is a priest, andleast one chanter. There are two stands for chanters, one at the right and one at the left of the iconostasis and when it’s feasible, there are two choir groups that chant but of course anyone in the church can chant the prayers if they want. Literally anyone can go at the psalter to chant, no matter the age or gender. In the Orthodox Church, the emphasis is not at the sermon but at the Eucharist. The focus point and the whole point is the Eucharist, thus the sermon usually is brief.

[@conatusforja]

Thank you for making this video! Ut was very interesting to hear the perspective of an skeptic on this. On regards to the sermon, I've read that its technically an optional part of the liturgy, though most parishes do seem to do them every sunday. Given that the main point pf the liturgy 8s its spiritual aspect (which is not limited to taking communion), the sermon is a bit secondary even though it os useful. I've also had the same experience of the church being rather empry at the beginning of the liturgy and almost full by the end. Its funny to see people arrive mid-liturgy and go to the front pf the church to venerate an icon lol. I've been going to liturgy for some months, and the length was something i did have to get used to. It was funny at the beginning because I enjoyed it, but still 1 hour in I was wishing it finoshed soon. Now it's not so bad (though when hunger kicks in...), but it dod take some sundays to get used to it. Merry Christmas and God bless!

[@johncollorafi257]

Divine Liturgy is an Unbloody Sacrifice, meaning that there is a mystical offering of Christ and renewal of His Mysteries. This conception of the unbloody sacrifice is also emphasized in the Latin Mass. Early Christian writers considered the Liturgy the fulfillment of the prophecy of Malachiah 1: 11.

[@sargantfrosty]

Will you be visiting any Buddhist services? I am a non believer and a lapsed Catholic who has been experimenting with meditation lately, and tomorrow I'm gonna experiment by going to a Catholic Christmas mass.

[@sargantfrosty]

In any case, interesting video!

[@PaulNoll-gg2qk]

Keep discerning and Merry Christmas. Prayer is like meditation. The Catholic Answers call-in show is helpful to me on EWTN radio in the evenings from 7 to 9pm EST. You can call in and ask them anything, no matter your background, and they're very respectful.

[@liraco_mx]

I recommend you try the rosary, that is Catholic meditation but focused on the life of Christ instead of self (or nothingness, depends on the Buddhist tradition). You can also try going to an adoration chapel, a great place to be in silence. I pray you come back to Our Lord.

[@CleavetoAntiquity]

Buddhism is nuts. Look up narakas basically you’re reincarnated in a different hell for each bad thing you’ve ever done with no hope for avoiding it. For example people who are lg*t get reincarnated in a naraka in which you are crushed by rocks until jelly. The west has bleached Buddhism and basically larps. Not realizing it’s a whole religion with various insane views.

[@CleavetoAntiquity]

Some traditions within Buddhism sell “hell dollars” and burn them to get their family less time in those planes.

[@permanenceaesthetic6545]

If you get the opportunity to check out an Ordinariate Divine Worship Mass, I think that would be really cool to see. They don’t get as much publicity as the rest of the Catholic World.

[@Retro6502]

2:53 - The Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew and Aramaic. The New Testament was originally in Koine Greek.

[@ryrocks9487]

You may enjoy going to an English speaking parish in the USA, such as OCA, Antiochian or another Archdiocese with lots of English parishes, like Bulgaria! Probably more interesting for you then.

[@SaintAthanasius_Edits]

Attend the Latin Mass, it's the extraordinary form of the Catholic Mass.

[@paulcaskey]

To clarify, you stated that the Eastern Orthodox Church has 18 million members. It's more in the range of 250 million members.

[@fr.johnwhiteford6194]

You may want to attend an Orthodox Liturgy at a parish that does it all in English.

[@peggysoumakis1758]

There's the Orthodox Church of America and it's based in Texas. The American Orthodox Church has its roots in Alaska. Services are done in English. Greek, slavonic , Aramaic , etc. are hard to understand. There are hundreds of reasons why Orthodox Christianity hasn't changed much. Also, don't conflate it with ultra strict sects. It's actually a in lot more liberal in many ecclesiastical dogma than Catholicism.

[@MyLittleTierList-nz5vo]

If you are looking to learn you should attend the class. That's how I learned at my greek church father gives lessons and takes questions there. Interestingly a lot of young people attend our church 15-25. Might just be the church though.

[@MyLittleTierList-nz5vo]

Ps I'm a recent convert.

[@carlose4314]

You should visit a Syro-Malabar or Syro-Malankara Qurbana.

[@pablobarrera3943]

Hi there happy h9lidays😊

[@DarlowMaxwell]

I’m a Catholic convert (Southern Baptist) and I give you high marks for your video. The homily really takes a back place to the Eucharist.

[@copticconcept]

Attend a Coptic Orthodox Liturgy near you

[@Lerian_V]

Check out the video "Awakening from the Meaning Crisis" (episodes 19, 20 & 21) by John Vervaeke, Jordan Peterson's friend.

[@cloverskiezz]

hi friend you should go to a pentecostal/charismatic church:)

[@soarby0075]

I don’t know what city you’re in. I would suggest you visit the Church of Christ. We only use the Bible.

[@Querymonger]

The Bible doesn't say to only use the Bible

[@soarby0075]

I believe the Bible is the word of God. So what other would you use

[@FennMeister]

Which denomination are you from brother?

[@ThePjakes]

Blessed Mother Mary will bring you Home. kzbin.info/www/bejne/sKGtaXimpKmNoZYsi=D8Ri-9mlyoHm6ubD

[@dmm3124]

Yes, She never fails.