Fitting 33's Stock! | 2017 Tacoma TRD OffRoad Build

Going over the (mostly) nonexistent issues with 285/75r16 BF Goodrich KO2's mounted on 2017 TRD Pro wheels.
Thanks to John and Simon for the camera work!
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Instrumental by Chuki Beats: • (FREE) 'Nujabes' Real ...

[@jessemartinez90]

Ok just got the same set up!! It works!!!

[@kercmerk]

What kind of mileage do you get? I just put 265/70/R17 and I get 15MPG tank average...

[@jessemartinez90]

kercmerk I am getting about 17ish.. I got the pedal commander and I always have it on eco... I think that helps

[@jaimeportillo477]

Jesse Martinez so you fit 285’s stock? & did similar adjustments like this guy did?

[@joelaraniva8909]

did you do the heat gun for no rubbing ?

[@jackmeoff6667]

@@kercmerk I realize this is an old post but are you driving a automatic? I have an '19 Manual V6 4X4 with 245/75/17 KO2 and get around 20+ mpg on a good day. Maybe you're shifting too late? Driving too hard? That is TERRIBLE gas mileage, even for a Tacoma!

[@mikenormandy9250]

The 33's look amazing with the PRO's wheels! nice job bro!

[@Ranger_k16]

I have the exact same truck and have been wanting to upgrade to 285/70r 16s from 265/70r 16 but didn't want to do a cmc. This was incredibly helpful

[@carlitoswayz-Okan]

Buddy I've come back to watch this like 5 times haha. I'm finally getting mine next week with some rigid ditch lights installed. Keep making these videos man.

[@shizzle1903]

This young man is very talented with his filming skills. Watched several videos of his. And very knowledgeable. Thanks for the good work sir.

[@yaz5365]

I have a 2019 TRD off road 4x4. I also will add 285/75/16 tires. Thnx this really answered my question.

[@yezkaholic]

Have you made it happen, have same truck just curious if its possible

[@TheCanadianMarvel]

Just did this to my stock '16 TRD OR and had zero rub!!! Thank you so much!!!

[@theshauncarswell]

TheCanadianMarvel did you do the same wheels?

[@Gabez82]

Here we go, another gnarly Tacoma channel. Subbed.

[@KDoffroad]

It's about to get gnarlier 😛 Thanks for Subscribing!!

[@kyarush2082]

I run a 295/75R16 (lightweight pro comp alloys and Open Country AT's) and EVERYONE told me I had to regear or my gas mileage and transmission would take a hit. So far I am on stock gearing and noticed a 100rpm highway jump so I'm roughly at 1,900rpms at highway speeds and my gas mileage is exactly the same as stock and when I had true 33's as well. I'm lifted just a tad over 3" (doing coilovers soon) and I love it. I am getting 15-17mpg religiously depending on how I drive her! Cheers.

[@MrBury74]

Best clip I've seen that shows what the taco can do with crawl control

[@sandvitrafilms5270]

He was right! I ran this same setup. No rubbing so far

[@ThomperBeThompin]

You're really good at these videos, keep em' coming. Great information, well thought out and honest opinions and real world experience, plus some good off-road footage. I dig it!

[@KDoffroad]

Hey thanks! I really appreciate the feedback. Glad I could find your channel too, you have a sweet 4Runner!

[@dilanweerasinghe6482]

So it's been a couple years. How are these holding up? Any further rubbing or issues?

[@mdtrd]

Do an oil catch can. The only thing extra you do is empty it every time you change the oil. You'll probably make up that mileage from increased in tire size and your engine will LOVE you! I have an ADD in my 07 V6.

[@CaptainFALKEN]

Your truck is awesome. I have a '09 TRD Sport. Wish the TRD Pro had a long bed version. The only thing the Tacoma really doesn't have is a V8. We need it. We want it

[@tylermccoy2020]

Somthing about offroading/rock crawling is so entertaining to watch

[@ZenWorld]

Just did this with my 2019 TRD PRO and just had to remove my mud guards. I'm gonna push the plastic fender in like he did soon and take it offroading. So far the truck feels way better with AT3 285/75/16R Wildpeaks

[@ZenWorld]

Like he stated I feel the reason this works is the TRD PRO WHEELS OFFSET

[@ZenWorld]

No UCA RUB

[@rony97]

I want to put those same wheels on my 2017 TRD PRO still no rubbing ?

[@eduardoperdomo496]

Whats your update on the TRD PRO i got one myself and can’t wait to get 33s

[@ZenWorld]

@@eduardoperdomo496 so I went to Big Bear and didn't air down. The tires rub when not aired down. Mainly turning left or right going 15 miles per hour on dirt road bumps. I did proper offroading with it and no rub aired down. I did have to remove my mud guards and also chop a bit of plastic. Not into the cab mount just plastic. Little square piece about 1 inch. I asked my tire guy and the guy who aligned my car about possible rubbing they both said noo way.

[@rckcrushr]

Looks good. I have heard so much talk about this, it was nice to actually see a video of you doing the mod and then running it through the paces. Yes get some rock slider's!! I have a pair of Bud Built on order, I'm looking forward to getting them.

[@theoneoutofnazareth]

Keep in mind folks, KD has the TRD PRO WHEELS, not the stock wheels so the offset helps to prevent the rub. If you have stock rims (17 offroad) this won't work for your truck. Also, spacers reduces clearance not increases especially when turning

[@Patcher4011]

Phew! Just read all of the comments, good stuff in there. Props to KD for all the responses! Note to everyone: The truck is totally stock, the 16" TRD Pro rims make the 285 fit without rubbing the UCA I'm really debating on grabbing these in 275 tomorrow or get a leveling kit and stick with the 285 on stock OR rims. I'll have to let you know how it goes. **Update** After further research I purchased the TRD Pro 16” rims and then these tires on there with no rub on any factory parts 😁

[@FranciscoSilva-tm5sb]

William Walker how’d it go man?! I’m in the same boat 😂

[@Patcher4011]

Francisco Silva I decided to not stick with stock rims. Haha. I looked more into it and the UCAs would get in the way. Haha. Forgive me for not being the brave one. :P

[@MetaView7]

keep up the good work. keep the vid coming !

[@KDoffroad]

Thanks! More being made as we speak! 😏

[@darynt5784]

Looking like magic. Definitely doing this upgrade to tour around Vancouver Island.

[@SkinnySkinch]

Seriously sick truck man! Those wheels/tires make the taco's look ten fold better. I just placed an order yesterday for a 2019 TRD Pro in white. gonna put these same tires on first thing I do. Sadly won't have the truck for 6-8 weeks.. going to be a lot of sleepless nights until then!

[@northidahoguy5549]

Wheeling with a wood stove, that's a new one on me. Nice truck!

[@KDoffroad]

Haha, Thanks! It get really warm with it inside of my new canopy ;)

[@e90dan]

For the people wondering, he has a third gen, his body mount is not as forward as a 2nd gen Tacoma speaking drone experiences. You can still fit 33’s on a 2nd gen just need to do a body chop which cost some money if you pay a shop

[@pilgrimprepper4075]

HUGE Taco fan... Got a 2011 SR5 4 door. It still has factory type tires on it, I hate to change them before they wear out! I will most likely go with 33 inch also.

[@KDoffroad]

Nice! Atleast you got your moneys worth out of those tires! Thanks for watching!

[@majortom5299]

nice tires now. Doesn't looked stuffed much. You should get a lift when you can. That way you won't damage the truck as easy. Still seems way better than before. Good idea on the side rails as well. I got those on my ranger. I don't have many door dings, cause car doors hit them instead of my door. lol

[@mtb5.713]

The truck is looking good!

[@KDoffroad]

MTB 5.7 Thanks! 😊

[@bitedawg]

I can dig the choice for staying with the stock wheel,but consider this,an 8in wheel and 255-75-16's...with a nice trail terrain type tire,now the tire/wheel combo sits everything out closer(if not flush) with the wheelwell..I like the "tall/skinney" look...let me know what you think,thanx for posting

[@KDoffroad]

I definitely considered going this route, more so because everyone told me 285's would rub. But I do think the wider tire helps in slick terrain. Just something to keep in mind. Thanks for commenting!

[@bitedawg]

I agree with more footprint in the slick stuff..but I wonder about the physics of it...how do you think an aggressive "AT" - 285 vs a "more dedicated narrower(255/75/16)trail/mud terrain would preform in similar conditions?

[@drj4608]

Thank you for this! I have been looking at what type of setup I would need to fit 33's under my '16 TRD OR in an actual off road scenario. Good information!

[@KDoffroad]

Glad it helped out. Let me know how it goes! Thanks for Subscribing!!! :)

[@fredbrackely]

So that's how Toyota is upgrading the power on these V6's; wood burning stove in the back! For a second there, I thought it was for extra traction;)

[@KDoffroad]

Haha, it only comes on the Canadian models ;) Thanks for commenting!

[@glock19gen3]

These will be my next set. I currently have 265/75r16 KO2's

[@theoneoutofnazareth]

Nice YODA KD!! I have the 17 off-road, all stock so far. I'm stuck between a level kit mod or just getting beefier tires. This video was very helpful!

[@theoneoutofnazareth]

My commute daily is about 80miles round trip so I'm looking to give me truck or more aggressive look without sacrificing fuel economy

[@faultless18]

Can't wait to see more videos! 🙌🏻

[@KDoffroad]

I'm working on some right now! Thanks for commenting!!! ✌️

[@silvercyclone71]

@@KDoffroad Really wish you would make more Tacoma/Off Road vids....

[@macrice5522]

Nice set up, love that wheel tire combo might have to run that on my off road ;-)

[@KDoffroad]

You should :P Thanks for subscribing!!

[@matthewmoran1271]

just a tip, when you are going uphill or on a bump and you have trouble going up or getting traction like at 2:45, turn your wheel left and right a little kinda quickly and it will get you right up. if you wanna see more of what I'm talking about check out my Moab trip video! it's in a RZR but same principle for trucks and jeeps. Great video!

[@KDoffroad]

I will definitely try that out next time. Man those Razors look like fun! I was pretty nervous on that snowy rock, I was trying not to move the wheel so I didn't slide back and smash the cab :P Thanks Matthew!

[@matthewmoran1271]

yeah once you get some sliders you're safe! Definitely wanna protect that beauty of a truck. The RZR is pretty great off road, makes it easier to not care what you do to it as much since it's my daily Tacoma haha

[@JaimeCarlosCamacho]

What's the science behind that technique? Thanks for the tip :)

[@matthewmoran1271]

honestly, I have no clue. It just works. My dad is a hardcore Jeep guy and thats what he taught me, I guess it increases traction surface area and the friction of the tire moving could increase grip especially when you air down or something but I really don't know

[@BRollOffroad]

you're transferring weight slightly side-to-side, also changing angle of tire so some shoulder blocks will usually start grabbing. if you've been digging a hole turning the wheel now has the tire hitting walls instead of smooth rounded ramps and has a better chance of lifting you up.

[@ddoghunt3471]

I thought about going Off Road today and was just wondering??? Should I take my wood stove for better performance, or was that just for the Canadian Coldness? LoL... Great job on video! Much luck and success blessed your way my friend!

[@KDoffroad]

Haha! I was just taking it up to my hunting Igloo! Definitely aided with traction on the frosty morning eh! Thank you very much Darrin!

[@BernonCars]

Just found your channel bro! Love it!

[@KDoffroad]

Glad you did! Thanks :D

[@samuelclark9909]

Nice truck, the tires look really good on it.

[@llamasmrf]

Soon as you add those sliders, and more armor you will be in the same boat I am in, those sweet new tires will start a rubbin. You asked me before what lift I am going with, I think its going to be OME suspension lift on 5100's with 886's just not sure on the springs yet, 886 or 887's. I want about 3 inch lift.

[@KDoffroad]

llamasmrf llamasmrf Possibly. But after this weekend trying to make it rub, I'm feeling pretty confident. I went over some steep ledges and compressed the front all the way with pretty much locked steering and still no rubbing on UCA or the cab mount. I think the wheels are key. I will probably lift after I add all the heavy items cause like you, I want to get the springs right the first time. Thanks for commenting!☺️

[@chuckpatry3909]

KD what kind of tires did you put on. Thanks

[@LonelyTigerGrowl]

bad ass set up! wheel tires. still waiting to get my yota

[@RCPropaganda]

wow you fit those tires stock. You ask most people on fourm and they say no. I guess I will have to get the wheels and def can fit the 275s I want. I will have a level kit in the front so I should be good.

[@KDoffroad]

Nice! Yeah you will for should be clear with an level kit and 275's. What wheels are you going to go with?

[@RCPropaganda]

I want the pro wheels or the koing countersteers. I wanted the 17inch trd pro wheels as the 275 tires are more common. Looks like the 17s are hard to get tho so I am unsure as what I will do.

[@speterbilt]

thats the wheel & tires i want on my 17 trd offroad. lookin good dude. rci metalworks makes some good rocksliders

[@KDoffroad]

Thanks! You shouldn't hesitate on this setup, I have no regrets. I do like some of RCI's stuff. I've been looking into a few companies for armour.

[@speterbilt]

KD which state are you in? i like out west. wanna do black bear pass labor day weekend if good weather

[@KDoffroad]

I live on Vancouver Island, in British Columbia. Hopefully I'll make it out there one day soon. Plenty of legendary trails on my bucket list :)

[@speterbilt]

KD sounds good. im in central Texas. La Grange Texas. same town zz top sang about. lol. ride safe. post more vids

[@craigschaffer828]

Nice looking truck. Very good info in the video. thanks for posting.

[@KDoffroad]

Thanks Craig! I appreciate the Sub! 😊

[@4xhoser]

Legit been hunting on youtube for hours and was getting discouraged that I couldn't fit 285s but than found this vid! I've got a 18 off road and didnt wanna cut the cab mount! Any issues since this vid? Thanks for this dude great vid subbed!

[@AMDEF365]

Sick truck man!

[@newbeerider3848]

Wow, great videos man. Been clicking on your videos for the last hour LOL

[@chrisa7519]

Are you planning on doing high speed off roading or mudding? would be awesome to see 👍🏼 truck looks great with those wheels and tires by the way!

[@KDoffroad]

Chris T Thank you! I'll will definitely have some high speed video coming soon! But I try to avoid mud at all costs. Unfortunately it's inevitable where I live, so I'm sure you'll be seeing some of that soon anyway. :P

[@JamesBerkey]

we need more uploads. Solid channel!

[@carlitoswayz-Okan]

I just installed some te37's 16x8 with -0 offset and it's rubbing in the front, on the front side like how you pushed back the plastic except it's also touching close to where the screw that mounts the bumper. Sounds pretty bad coming into the driveway. I'm going to cut it as close to that screw as possible.

[@RicardoRodriguez-gt7cq]

Awesome! Looking to buy my first Tacoma this year bro, will def have lots of questions for ya!

[@AlexGtheOG90]

I’m debating on 285/75r16 Km3s hopefully there’s not too much of an issue with rubbing

[@ZacharyE]

Delivering a wood stove to a cabin or something??? :P Thanks for the info.

[@xcracer311]

should check out hefty Fab they make nice sliders and aluminum front bumper

[@ThriftyGarage]

This looks awesome!

[@gerryfunke1343]

That taco rule's wish I had one.

[@Floki1624]

How would this work with bone stock 2019 TRD OR....stock wheels are 16 inch.... Cab mount chop and heat gun is what I hear...

[@codyzavada2347]

When are you going to put up more Tacoma videos? I love the look of your taco!

[@Ls1opSS]

Nice truck kd, I just got a 17' same exact thing, color and all lol but manual. Do you think those tires would fit the stock wheels with just mild rubbing. I see you had the trd pro wheels that's the only difference. Thanks for making the vid

[@KDoffroad]

I'm jealous, we cannot get Manual DCSB TRD Offroad's in Canada. It would definitely rub, but I don't know what the severity would be. 14mm Offset doesn't sound like a big deal, but it's really close to rubbing when flexed even with these wheels. Although, there are some people on TacomaWorld who have done it and said it isn't bad. Let me know what you decide to do! Cheers.

[@Ls1opSS]

Ended up working out good. Slight rubbing on UCA at full lock and flexed. Other then that all good. I'm ktm kid 2017 3.5 turd on tacomaworld. Love the vids keep em coming. I should have some up soon

[@brianlee6849]

Looking good. I just bought a 18 double cab long bed premium package with leather. I was thinking about going with 255/85r16 ? Mine is also gray the black TRD wheels look very nice I may upgrade to those too . Thanks

[@arper2000]

Don't stop talking keep educating 👍👍👍👍

[@KDoffroad]

Thanks Alex!!! Will do! :D

[@ricksssr.4781]

Hello I have the same set up same thing just that I have a 3 in level lift I m going to do this so it don't rub

[@ShootingSportz]

Best video I have seen covering this setup. Do you know if there would be any rubbing on a 2021 TRD Pro? I know the pro is I believe 1" taller. Thanks!

[@TreyPerryWx]

Question for anyone here who might know. I've got a 2015 Tacoma SR5 4x4, just got the front lifted about 2.5 inches and the back about 1 inch. Would these tires fit without me having to make any other adjustments or trimming?

[@HighjakSecondary]

Pro wheels are +13mm.

[@KDoffroad]

HighjakSecondary You’re actually incorrect. Negative offset gives the truck a more wide stance. www.performancealloys.com/media/wysiwyg/alloy_wheel_offset/WHEEL-OFFSET-diagram.png

[@HighjakSecondary]

@@KDoffroad While negative offset does mean the wheels stick out wider. I'm still correct. The Pro wheels have a +13mm offset. The OEM Off Road wheels have a +25mm offset. This is common knowledge. Just Google it.

[@dvc_joe]

@@KDoffroad I'm pretty sure those wheels are +13mm offset. Anyways thanks for the video man. I got 285s instead of 265/75s because of this video.

[@redpilledpatriot8484]

I wonder if this would work on a second gen? I just put 265/75/16 and they are great.. discount tires told me not to buy them because the computer said they would rub but I got them anyway,, they do not rub at all.

[@moto_av8or]

Is there any dimensional difference between these 16” TRD Pro wheels and the 16” TRD Off Road wheels as far as backspace or offset?

[@acetigg6690]

that's what I'm wondering tryna buy 33s and put em on my or wheels. have a 3 inch one lift so hopefully they fit

[@snosqrl]

@@acetigg6690 Did you pull the trigger on this? If so, How did they fit? I've got 2" lift on my 16 OFDC. Looking to put 33's on my stock OR rims. Not sure why this is so hard to research, but is proving difficult. Cheers.

[@acetigg6690]

Eric Norton negative I haven’t. I need to still but money’s tight

[@thomasspencer3073]

I know this was months ago, but the reason this works is because the Pro wheels are -13 offset. The stock OR wheels are close to -26 offset. So no, you’re going to have a bad time

[@916dai]

I have a set of 265/70/R18 for my 2017 SR5 4x4 Do you think that will fit?

[@COBHC8890]

Yup yup. 255/85's (33in tall) fit not prob

[@bryanr.3241]

Couldn't you just do a slight lift , like 2" (body/suspension) to avoid any cutting or fabricating to make the tires fit perfect ? Is there a reason you didnt go with a lift ?

[@juanpabloecuador]

Excelente vídeo !!!

[@KDoffroad]

Gracias!

[@RobZee]

Nice video man.

[@lebronjordan4750]

KD, great setup. Was wondering, do you think that if I ran your same tire but with a 16X8" rim instead of a 16X7" rim, like you, that it would rub? Stock(no lift) 3rd gen tacoma by the way. If not, do you think I can make it work? How's your daily driving experience with big tires? Thanks

[@kellyfortis4]

I'm running stock TRDOR wheels on my 2016 with 1.25" Spidertrax spacers. I believe that should be more offset than the Pro wheels. With that said, do you think if the Pro wheel was pushed out any further that you'd start running into the cab mount when at full lock?

[@JaayGuns7]

Will this still work if I have the 4Runner TRD pro wheel they have 4mm offset. Trying to fit 285/70/17. Truck has bilstein 5100’s on the front set at 1.1” of lift

[@danielfaith1]

Glad to hear you're continuing with the channel. Now after 11 months are you still happy with the setup? I'm not sure if you ended up upgrading the suspension and lift since you published this video but I was just curious on the long term aspect as I would like to do the same with my stock TRD Off Road. Thanks!

[@KDoffroad]

Hey, thanks. Still super happy. I haven't done anything suspension wise, but I am looking into it. Only because with weight of the canopy, roof top tent and dirt bike, the suspension is sacked right out. So when I put a new leaf pack in, I will be adding shocks all around and giving her a few inches of lift, just for ground clearance. Can't go wrong with the wheel and tire setup tho!

[@zandrbrooks6492]

It’s probably already been answered, but in your opinion could I fit 285/70r17 on 17x8.5 -10 offset wheels on my 2016 Tacoma. It has a 2 inch level.

[@mikedagudag8857]

will the tires fit the stock trd off road wheels without rubbing?

[@KDoffroad]

I doubt it, the extra offset of these wheels I believe makes the difference. It would probably be fine until the suspension articulates.

[@jackdill8731]

Could you post a video or show us how it is with two bikes in the short bed?

[@KDoffroad]

I will try sooner than later. Just installed a canopy, so next time it is off I will.

[@dlg5485]

This setup looks phenomenal. Absolutely no suspension mods?

[@nathanjohnson4252]

what is the name of those wheels and tires i love the way they look i think 33's fit the body perfectly

[@amtrobia]

Great video!!

[@KDoffroad]

Thank you! :D

[@saulgarcia4761]

Due u have a lift on the truck also did you have to put any wheel spacer

[@ShotShapeFitness]

Would this set up work on a 2017 TRD Off Road model?

[@johnmadsen37]

If you air down, it would barely slip if at all. No, going from 40 to 35 or 30 is not airing down. 20lbs or less is a start.

[@buildexplore3278]

Nice truck

[@KDoffroad]

Thanks! :D

[@raymondbaker303]

man that is pretty awesome any other plans for it in the near future

[@KDoffroad]

Lots of plans! Too many to list, but skid plates, sliders, bumpers and roof racks are high priority. Along with some electrical stuff. Just making a video now on one of my new additions, it'll be up soon... Thanks for commenting :)

[@Russianmafia10]

I have a 2020 trd pro which has a 1 inch lift in the front. Do you think these would fit with no modifications?

[@galenburns69]

Great video

[@Costa20071313]

I have a 2018 sr5 I wonder if it works and if I don’t a 2” in the front and 1” in the back

[@808Cummins]

quick question. My 2000 Tacoma TRD off road is quite faster than the new 2016 and up. When I put 285/75/16 on my 2000 I dropped 3mpg. How is it that with the terrible shift pattern and gearing of the 3.5 you're getting close to same fuel mileage as stock? Would you be able to do a hand calculation on mpg with the new set up?

[@KDoffroad]

I honestly haven't noticed a difference with shifting, which is awesome. With my lead foot, the dash use to read an average of 12.5 litres per 100km (18.8mpg) and my last few tanks have read 14l per 100km, but if I calculate the 6.8% difference, that would be just 13.05 (18.02 MPG). So, not a big difference. If I drive like an old lady, I can still get it to read 10L (23MPG) and thats prior to doing the math for the size difference. Thanks, hope this helps!

[@agustinherrera5600]

Hey nice truck have one just like it . No rubbing in cab mount ? Im planning on running 285/75 /17 on mine with -12 offset you think i will rub ?

[@norkisserrano]

where did you buy your rims? because we have exactly the same truck and color. I think it looks sick.

[@rgdud0]

You said the tires are 285/75r16, but aren't the TRD Pro rims 17"?

[@KDoffroad]

Ryan Gini the 4Runner Pro wheels are 17”, the Tacoma Pro wheels are 16”.

[@cjsmith]

Bilstein 6100’s would fix rubbing issues

[@coryellis12]

why not just go with 33 X10.50 or were the wheels just too skinny? I was just asking bc my 95 4runner came factory with 31x 10.50 and it doesn't come close to rubbing. Good job with the vid though

[@KDoffroad]

I did want just a slightly wider tire. Plus, I am weird and I like everything metric :P Probably a good choice for people with stock rims tho... but who knows until you try. Thanks for commenting!

[@FirstnameLastname-ni9uh]

Someone tell me what trail this is. Plz

[@no_pain8854]

I had a quick question. I want to put the Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac (P) 265/70R17/SL Tires on my 2016 Toyota Tacoma TRD sport 4x4 double cab. Do u know if these tires will also fit?

[@KDoffroad]

Michael Cisneros Yes! They should fit without any modification required! Good choice in tires too! Thanks for commenting :)

[@no_pain8854]

Right on bro! I want to keep my stock ride. thanks for the info

[@robertbatista7164]

Love when my questions are answered before asking!

[@Cgtlfa]

Dang no sliders! That hurts to watch 😬

[@roydi5122]

Would 285 70 17 fit on my 2020 sr5 stock and with a 2in spacer in the front?