Fitting the Smokai to my Coldsmoker - 30 HOUR Test and Review.

[@klaussalkola6034]

Hello from Finland, I have about 20 years’ experience of constructing cold smoke generators and using them as a home user. Maximum batch size has been about 15 kg of salmon at once - usually less. Some experiences here: Spiral burners do not work at all - regardless wood or grain size. Silo - type generators suffer from bridge formation as on the video. Occasional cleaning with a steel brush helps. I also have an easy system to remove ash at replenishment of ships. I use a fixed glow plug from an automotive diesel engine to keep the fire going instead of lighting the fire once. Works reliably well. A simple 12 V and only 4 A battery charger keeps the plug just glowing and it lasts for years. The amount of compressor (blower) air is not the only critical matter regarding smoke draught. The construction and condition of the venturi must also be considered. My pump is an aquarium pump and I regulate it with a by-pass valve. No need for higher sophistication. Just buy the most effective pump at the pet shop and a 3-way valve. I make my wood chips myself by felling Alder (Alnus incana) during winter/spring, then cutting, chopping, drying and chipping it to about 10 - 15 mm size chips. It gives a soft and clean smoke good for fish. Some oak, apple etc. have also been used. Bigger chips may make solid bridges on the silo but some single solid pieces may be used along with the chips. The water observed in the smoke comes mainly from the combustion and cannot fully be avoided by drying the wood. Nor can its formation be avoided in the silo. It makes the sticky soot as seen on the video if it is not ventilated out from the silo. Here further experiments are needed. The water must be separated from the smoke before it is used on the fish. I have constructed a smoke dryer at the inlet to the chamber at the end of the cooling pipe from the smoke generator. During one smoking session (3 days for me), it extracts more than 1 l of black, bitter and poisonous water that else would come into contact with the food. We do not have to eat that! During winter, it is necessary to have an electrical heater at the bottom of the smoke chamber. It keeps an upward draught preventing the smoke from escaping downwards and keeps the chamber and the fish dry. It also prevents the fish from freezing. Fire safety must be considered. Several homes have been lost due to fire from cold smokers - often left un-attained for a long period. My generator is located in a qualified garden fireplace (open stove) and the smoke is led with a steel pipe to the chamber. There is no fire or warm temperatures outside the stove. The smoke is cooled in this pipe and much water is separated already here. Carcinogenic PAH compounds will always be created at wood combustion. The higher temperature at which the smoke is generated, the more PAH will result. Slight glow is better than full flame burning. I also believe that many harmful compounds will be flushed from the smoke at the dryer. At least, the black fluid collected tastes python.

[@Coldsmoking]

Thanks Klaus, what a comprehensive essay. some interesting points 👍

[@klaussalkola6034]

Now I insulated the silo with 25 mm rockwool covered with thermal shield fabric. In about - 5 C temperature there was nearly no water or moisture observed in the silo and only little if Anu bridge formation. The fuel burned totally leaving only light brown ash. What was even better was the improved burning time. It will now keep lightly smoking for 6 to 8 hours compared with 3 to 4 earlier. I feel the insulating is worth beeing tested on factory made smoke generators as well. Keeping the temperature higher in the middle and upper part of the silo will prevent moisture from condensing in the silo causing problems.

[@Coldsmoking]

@@klaussalkola6034 Thanks for this very detailed response.. thats much appreciated. im planning another video with the Smokai soon and i’ll try to replicate your findings. thanks 🙏

[@tomostrowski6628]

Hi @klaussalkola6034

[@tomostrowski6628]

Would you be available for a call regards smoke generators ?

[@ginomangone7600]

I’m in Canada and enjoyed your video, I built my own smoke generator very similar to what you have, the difference is that instead of smoke pipe at the bottom I have my on the top and what it does it discharges the smoke and the moisture into the smoke chamber and I have a small metal can at the end of the smoke pike to catch the condensed moisture.

[@Coldsmoking]

that sounds like a good bit of design 👍 thanks for your comment

[@SuperMagnumguy]

On sites I see here in Canada. They recommend microwaving the chips / pellets for two minutes before using them, and making sure there is no dust in there as that chokes the burn. I am on the verge of buying one after hearing rave reviews about smokai. Really looking forward to your update video. 👍

[@Coldsmoking]

Thanks, its coming soon

[@LittleBearBBQ_Food_Original]

Another great video and review. Thank You. When I was researching these Venturi type of cold smoke generators, I saw quite a lot of discussion regarding condensation and the unit choking itself out. The general consensus was to ensure that the wood chips were of a smaller size, were well dried out and the tube itself had been brought upto the ambient temperature (much like a telescope would need to be) to work properly. There didn't seem to be much discussion about the actual airflow from the pump. Another couple of "things" were to fashion an ash catcher underneath the unit, so install a mesh at the bottom of the tube and then an extension of the tube onto this...To me this seemed a bit much; If you're going to do this, just make a VCSG from the get go! The other suggestion that seemed to work was to install a coiled piece of stainless rod in the tube, this seemed to provide enough air space between the wood chips to ensure a better burn. Take a squizz at the smokedaddyinc CSGs...The design is somewhat reversed to the Smokai, but might help.

[@Coldsmoking]

great comment, and all noted. ill take a look at the smoke daddy csg

[@peter_peter_pumpkin_eater]

Built myself a very similar smoke generator with stainless tube and battery pond pump. I used Manuka fine chips and due to our high humidity, the chips absorb moisture resuling in same issue as you. You did the test in UK during a very wet winter so they may have succumbed to that high humidity. Try drying the chips from your now opened bags in a cool oven first or microwave.

[@Coldsmoking]

Thanks for the comment. great advice. its also worth noting that the combustion process itself creates moisture irrespective of any moisture in the wood and with low outside temperatures its inevitable you’ll end up with condensation inside the chamber and tarry deposits 👍

[@xpdnc9794]

I've been using a similar product for over a year and initially found the same problems. I solved them by redisgning the diameter of the the wood chip holder to a 120mm pipe and cleaning after 20 hrs in a caustic soda solution. I also went for a variable speeed air pump that you can experiment wiith to give the correct amount of smoke to your particular smoke box.

[@Coldsmoking]

thanks for the advice, i’ll experiment a little more 👍

[@Adventure.AS.25]

I purchased the 1 litre unit and also ran into creosote build up. I used a propane torch to heat up the smoke tube and the creosote melted and quickly dripped out. I ordered some properly sized, dry wood chips - hopefully that will result in better combustion.

[@Coldsmoking]

Interesting! i wonder what the outside air temperature was when you were smoking??

[@Adventure.AS.25]

@@Coldsmoking about 5º C.

[@Adventure.AS.25]

@@Coldsmoking To be clear, I used the propane torch to melt the creosote after smoking and with the Smokai detached from my Weber BBQ.

[@Coldsmoking]

I think the clogging with tarry residue issue is exasperated in lower temperature.. as the Smokai is quite a robust object it can take a hit from a propane torch without distortion.

[@andrewoutside2073]

@@Adventure.AS.25 are you happy with the 1 litre size or wish you had the 3litre? I'm on the fence as to what size to get for my gas grill.

[@johnmanthey6034]

What about using wood pellets as opposed to chips?

[@Coldsmoking]

Im going to run a test soon. its been too windy recently 👍

[@NA-xm7wj]

I like to keep my wood chips is a cold environment try placing in the refrigerator to pull the moisture out of the wood chips with the container lid open or the bag unsealed

[@Coldsmoking]

That should work and bringing cold chips out into a warm environment will act as a magnet to moisture unless they’re bought up to ambient temperature in a sealed container.. 👍

[@NA-xm7wj]

Well hopefully something works for ya I’m sure you’ll figure it out just don’t over think it. Keep it simple

[@Coldsmoking]

wise words mate 👍

[@SeanByrne-vo1kf]

I have no experience with this smoker, however I have a similar model and I find pre drying the wood chips or pellets in an oven 60 mins at 100c helps, it ensures most of the moisture is removed and the fuel drops down as it should. Also I do the same with the pro q smoker dust, the tip came in the instructions with that product. Seems to work well and the amount of cresote produced fell away dramatically when using chips in this style smoker. Wood be it chips, pellets or dust pulls moisture from the air depending on humidity and even product I have pre prepared and kept in a vacum tight container has failed to burn properly so I just dry a batch every time I smoke. I find this gives a first rime ignition and a full time burn

[@Coldsmoking]

Thanks for the comment. Just remember when combusting wood or other organic matter water is produced naturally as a byproduct of that process regardless of any apparently moisture in the wood. Wood is a hydrocarbon and when its combusted in the presence of oxygen water is inevitably produced 👍

[@SeanByrne-vo1kf]

@@Coldsmoking Have you had any experience with the type of cold smoker that has a condenser on it to capture the condensate and create in a jar or container, I have seen one on eBay but reviews and you tube information is lacking.

[@Coldsmoking]

No not seen one of these. There are sone converted fridges which do that by accident but not had any experience with a smoker with a dedicated condenser 👍

[@USA__2023]

@@SeanByrne-vo1kf I have one from amazon. It's made by Supllueer. it has the condensate trap and a pretty big chamber. works great.

[@USA__2023]

BTW the chamber is big enough to drop a pellet tube in it and that's actually the only way i have used it so far. I keep a spare pellet tube filled and ready to go when the first one burns out. You don;t get the real long time doing it that way but it also doesn't get as dirty that way.

[@mikenicholson2548]

Have you tried wood pellets? Their website says you can use them.

[@Coldsmoking]

not yet ill give them a go.

[@moriswatt1092]

I have just bought the 1L Smokai with a variable speed pump. I used some old ( so probably damp) Hickory pellets had from using a smoking tube. On the lowest pump speed the kept going out, at a higher speed too much smoke. I will try with new (dry) pellets and post again with results.

[@Coldsmoking]

you could try placing the pellets in a roasting tray and leaving them in a warm oven (door slightly open to allow moisture to escape) to dry a little beforehand.

[@julianfarquhar]

How did it turn out? I have the same, and am getting bad results. Lots of moisture and coating a paint like gloss of smoke.

[@besearchingforwisdom6267]

I'm new to this cold smoking, my unit seems to work very well but it's a bit too small. I'll be looking to make something that will last and not need to be attended to...mine uses a venturi to pull the smoke out from the burn pot and inject it into the processing chamber, but it's ash requires tending. I felt the burn should start at the top, along with air injection to exit the burn chamber at the bottom. What is your experience and opinion?

[@Coldsmoking]

Hi, thanks for the question. These type of generators typically burn from the bottom and rely on the wood chips to fall down to continue the combustion process. This is ideally the best way but it's not without it's difficulties. Sometimes the wood chip causes a bridge and doesn't fall down and the burn self extinguishes due to a lack of available fuel. This can be overcome by occassionally tapping the side of the container to get the chips to settle. However, this does defeat the object of leaving it alone to do it's thing. One good solution I find it using a burn tray like the ProQ maze style cold smoke generators. I've used them on the channel several times in the past and they are worth a look if you want to leave things to just get on with the job of coldsmoking without outside interference. Check out some of my previous videos for more information using the playlist equipment.

[@adrianus3838]

I discovered if you make sure the vent hole is just outside of your smoker, it burns very nicely.

[@Coldsmoking]

Which vent hole??

[@moriswatt1092]

Creosote is produced by distilling wood in an oxygen poor environment. So I went back to the paperwork that came with my Smokai 1L. As well as advising on chip size it mentions adequate airflow and venting. Poor air circulation could starve the burning chips and lead lead to incomplete combustion and hence creosote production which gums up the works. It might also explain why the chips go out. My smoking chamber has only a small vent in the top of it. This is OK with the ProQ maze which produces a lower volume of smoke than the smokai. Several designs of DIY smokers include quite large vent holes at the top and bottom of the smoking chamber. I am planning to build my own (wooden) smoke box witha larger volume than the one I have been using and incorporate large and adjustable vents top and bottom possibly with a small fan to improve airflow. The fan may not be needed as the relatively warmer smoke should rise to the top of the chamber. I was interested to note that ProQ's own box for use with the maze has no vent at the top. Any thoughts anyone?

[@Coldsmoking]

Great comment but lets not forget we depend on incomplete combustion for the very smoke we rely on. Ill be conducting some more experiments with other forms of wood like pellets etc to see how they react.

[@davidbondy8340]

I suffer from way too much sticky creosote in my (smaller) similar smoke tube. I think this is the same ... sticky, smoky goo! Very hard to get rid of!

[@Coldsmoking]

it did take some serious scrubbing

[@Fishh82]

I wonder if it’s worth insulating the tube. This might alleviate the condensate. I looked at a number of cold smoke generators around 10 years ago. Issue of ash and cleaning put me off. Could you add a 10mm galvanised mesh at the bottom?

[@Coldsmoking]

interesting point re insulation but its worth remembering that water vapour is produced as a result of combustion so its probably going to be in the tube whether or not insulated. the open base may be worth a look though. watch this space 👍

[@8723402jm]

Could you run the smoke out tube through a closed cylinder of water before going into the smoke shed? That would remove a lot of the undesirable elements of the smoke.

[@Coldsmoking]

@8723402jm There’s no positive pressure in the smoke outlet to allow that to be an effective methodology. also practically everything in the smoke is undesirable except the flavour but we still do it 😂

[@robav8or]

It’s possible the chips aren’t properly seasoned and maybe still little green (hence the moisture). Check the source of your chips and ask the question.

[@Coldsmoking]

Its good advice but i know my chips are dry and seasoned so the issue may have been due to the cold ambient temperature

[@julianfarquhar]

I have the 1 litre Smokai., and am getting bad results. Lots of moisture and coating a paint like gloss of smoke on the cheese I smoke. If I use a tube smoker on the bottom of the smoker its perfect which also takes all kinds pellets. This new Smokai which I thought would help is really annoying. I used Traegar brand pellets and they stuck in the tube silo tube. Big job cleaning. Then tried NZ Manuka wood chips very fine, burned quickly and the covering was very light after 3 hours. Had to use more chips. Still a light coating. Last night used a new pellet from Oklahoma joes, pure hardwood. No sticking in Silo, but the weirdest coating ever on Cheese. Like an enamel paint and only on the top. Very unattractive. Also had to fill the entire silo which is at least 2X the amount I would use with a smoking tube.

[@Coldsmoking]

It's difficult to get this right with Cheese. I find less is more and this is never truer than when it comes to smoking cheese. The smoke density has to be quite light and the cheese shouldn't be smoked for more than 4 hours. Shorter if the smoke density is a little on the high side. The temperature is also critical when smoking cheese. The lower the better. Too high a temp and the cheese will lose all it's fat and begin to dry and crack. Never a good look with cheese. And remember you'll never make a bad cheese good by adding smoke. You'll just end up with smoked bad cheese. Regarding the smokai, I'm going to be doing a few more experiments with it over the coming weeks and when I get a chance to post them here I will. Thanks for your comments. Always hugely appreciated and good luch going forward. T.

[@julianfarquhar]

@@Coldsmoking Thanks Mate, that is quite accurate. I produce smoked cheese for Farmers Markets and do 40 to 60 at a time. The health regulations do actually state 4 hours. Plus your observation of high temps drying the cheese is very true. One of the reasons I bought the Smokai to get a consistent stream of definitively cold smoke. I have used a pellet tube for the last half year. It's results are variable and customers can choose the amount smoke 'tan' they like. I have written to Smokai my experience as I have only used it around 4X.

[@robinjones6999]

The Smokai seems to me at least, trying to solve a problem which doesn't exist, but only to create problems. Ill stick with my ProQ

[@davidbondy8340]

I am thinking about going back to my large Pro-Q but I often have to re-light it (I use a blow torch rather than a candle). I am still searching for the best fuel ...

[@Coldsmoking]

I think you may have a point but making cold smoke with chips is good as it means i have a way of using all the chip i have knocking about.

[@ellellbee]

@@Coldsmoking Is this chip that you have from chipping up your own branches or remnants of bags of chips that you have bought? How dry are they?

[@Coldsmoking]

@@ellellbee my wood chip are commercial grade wood chips and dried to 5% moisture content. they are also dust free.

[@ShirleyVernon-pp5nw]

Stay with th pro q smokeer

[@Coldsmoking]

thank you Shirley, but that might make my videos just a touch samie!

[@Vladimirvladimirovicvladimirov]

I have a Smokai 3 liter. I have never had an unburnt wood chip before. I use dry wood chips. If you do not know how to operate the device, then do not give a review for the product!

[@Coldsmoking]

Cheers Peter, Well, thats great to hear but for the benefit of those reading your comment, at the very least give a little more detail of why you think i don’t know how to operate it and perhaps a little commentary on how you use yours. 👍 Try and keep your comments positive and respectful so others can benefit from your extensive experience 🙏

[@David-qd3ff]

Good dry chips and proper maintenance of the unit is essential. I keep everything in Tupperware to keep the contents dry.

[@Coldsmoking]

You’re giving away your age there mate 😂

[@Gattsu21361]

So a small weight or use the right air pump and the right chips. Basically you’re lazy😂

[@Coldsmoking]

Good point - well made!

[@blakamin]

Pretty much not a review if you're not using the proper pump. 👎

[@Coldsmoking]

the pump wasn’t the issue here. subsequent tests have made that clear to me.